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Alright, let's get on with the show then. Waiting down upon the underworld to smash ganglins, come a friend of the unfortunate enemy of criminal. In mysterious, all powerful characters, a problem to the police, but a good state of law. Hey, running welcome to the Els World Exchange.
Again, I'm Sal. And I'm Joel for a second time. I know, yeah, we had some technical difficulties in the last one, but welcome to the show. We're gonna be talking about the whole Jeff Lo, Marvel TV, Kevin Feige, Chief Creative Officer.
What does that mean? And where are we going? And more importantly, what are our opinions? Who should stay?
Who should go, if any? So, we're gonna get into that in just a second. Before we do, that's an old business and new business. Gotta read the notes from the last meeting, ladies and gentlemen.
Before we get started, I wanna say, thank you for joining us here on this Els World Exchange podcast. The show is sponsored by you. The viewers like you who watch the show every week live here on our channel. If you use those super chats, you can ask a question or make a comment.
Collaborate with us in this episode. And those proceeds go directly into the channel and make the channel possible. Slash-key-the-lights-on-slash-allow us to get new equipment and all kinds of other random stuff that needs to be in order to allow us to keep doing it, particularly on a weekly basis, which, you know, you're enjoying here today. So, please, if you're of mine and able to do so, use the super chats and they will be read here on the show live.
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I'm just thinking about this. And then, so it's a totally different tangent. It's a lot of fun. Check that out.
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Find a really cool store. Get some Dunkin' Donuts next door. And hang out with us. Watch us tape a show.
It's gonna be a lot of fun. Look, Sadal Thawne is already in the super chat. It says, Hey, Sal and Joel, how's it going, guys? It's going well.
My friend, thank you so much for your generosity. Holy crap, dude. Thank you very, very much for supporting us the way you are. And the way you have, by the way, Sadal Thawne not only supports CR, but he also watches our other show, which is a live streamed Twitch series where Tiffany plays video games over on Twitch.tv slash Comic-pop TV.
So, hang out with us over there as well if you like video games, so check that out. What's she playing now, Sam? Code Vayne, as a matter of fact. Yeah, I got that too, actually.
I keep screwing around in the character creator. I haven't actually played anything yet. The character creator is sick and ridiculous. Actually, the entire team has, that's the people who watch the show, have teams together to create a character altogether.
Her name is Robin Liefeld, and she is made of pouches. As I understand, she has a huge pouches on her face. Love it. Does she still have a job though, Robin Liefeld?
Of course, you know, her job is like drawing and not remembering the draw feet. But yeah, Mark Narchalleta says, keep Iron Fist, have shank, she beat the ass, beat his ass in the first three minutes of his movie. I guess that'd be funny. That would almost be worth it to be like, move over on the new-come-food guy.
Forget about this guy, it's all me. Amazing zero Punisher Daredevil Season 2, Luke Cage, the rest can burn. We'll get into that in just a minute. Before we do talk about those things, although, I'm along the same lines as you, my friend.
We're gonna talk a little bit about, what is Marvel TV? What was Jeff Loeb in charge of that now Kevin Feige can oversee and as such incorporate? It all starts the course with Marvel's Agents of Shield, which I have very long run. It's finally, forgivably ending, so that shows dead.
Marvel's Agent Carter. Another show that, this is of course during the era when we thought Hashtag is all connected. Agent Carter also, from what I understand, had actual people from the MC working on the show. Yes, and Zola showed up and everything.
Which is part of the reason why Zola's there, why Jarvis ends up actually in Endgame. So arguably, it has more connectivity than all those seasons of Agents of Shield did. Exactly. So it was just really good and underrated.
I'm sad that one only got two seasons. Yeah, eight episodes, and then ten episodes, 18 episodes of a really, really underrated show. Also dead. Marvel's in Humans, the less said about it the better, but it's dead.
Can you believe they let Scott Buck fuck that up twice between that and Iron Fist? I can't believe. Our showrunner's just really expensive and he's gotta get whoever shows up. So anyway, but he can make it pictures of somebody in power.
Maybe? I mean, like, listen, so Inhumans was a show that had its own quagmire originally part of the MCU. Then after the power struggle between Pearl Mudder and Feige split, they took Inhumans, became a show and it became a disaster. We're this close to getting it in humans movie.
Imagine that alternate universe. We may still get one now. So then you got the Netflix series, Daredevil, Jessica Jones, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, technically the defenders as its own show. And of course, the Punisher.
So we got six different shows, all of which are using mid-range to higher level characters. All street level, all street level, all New York based, and all kind of to mid level critical acclaim. Yeah, very, very Marvel night. I can still remember when those shows were announced and how excited we all were.
And then of course the second seasons for all of them and how excited we were, but how tentatively exciting we were like, wait, is it? But we know it's not connected anymore. All of those shows were the excitement of Baparade when you're like, no, they're done, they're dead. They had the writings on the wall.
All those shows canceled and dead. So far only show we have that actually might still kind of be connected to the MCU, Agent Carter, but none of these shows are on TV or even being produced anymore. Then you got the Hulu shows. Oh, yes.
Marvel's Runaways. That's right, which I have not actually seen any of because I thought it was going to be canceled by an actress still hanging in there. Not only is it hanging in there, second season, and up until what was it, just two weeks ago at New York Comic Con, Jeff Lo was interviewed with the cast of Runaways to talk about its future. They even asked about the blip and whether that was going to be referenced.
Jeff Lo made a really terse response, as you can imagine. In which he said, if you look at the Spider-Man sequel, obviously they referenced it, and then it turned out it really didn't make any difference. Nobody really cared. Well, geez, Jeff, who pissed in your porridge?
I mean, I think Kevin Feige did. Hey, Jeff, hey, you have a nice breakfast. Hey, don't mind me. Then you got Hellstrom, the TV series, which is also apparently going to be released on Hulu in 2020, 10 episodes.
Yes, that's been cast. We were supposed to get a Ghost Rider show, but now he's going to be maybe getting a movie instead. Sorry, Gabriel Luna, even though you were an Agent of Shield, so that would have at least connected with each other. Right, the Ghost Rider show was being produced and is now dead, also under Jeff Lo, so therefore forget about the Ghost Rider show.
But, as you said, start to get excited because maybe they'll start putting Ghost Rider into the movies. I think almost certainly now because there isn't Voggy a big Ghost Rider fan, and I think that's been on his to-do list for a while. I think he's like a Marvel Knights fan, which may account for some of these characters and may inform some of our who should stay and who should go and who should get rebooted. So late, of course, in a very similar position, we all assumed, oh, well, Blade, Moon Knight, that's got to be phased to Netflix.
Ee, no, actually. No Netflix anymore, not even Disney Plus, who are rated for those, so they're going into movies. Looking at Freeform, formerly ABC Family, Marvel's Cloak and Dagger, two seasons, the show still exists, and as of now, is still not cancelled. Good for them.
Right now, we got three shows that are still being produced that now have lost Jeff Lo, but Runaways, Hellstrom, and Cloak and Dagger. That being said, of course, only two of them actually have shows you can watch, Hellstrom could be cancelled literally tomorrow. It's true. I mean, are we assuming that these aren't long for the world now, that if these were Lo's babies?
I don't know. Well, here's the thing, right? Because Disney Plus has a glassy only of PG-13. All of these shows, Runaways, Cloak and Dagger, Hellstrom, kind of confusing, but it's going to be produced on Hulu, but Runaways and Hellstrom and Cloak and Dagger could be conceivably shuffled over to Disney Plus, or just shoehorned into the Hulu series.
That's if they're happy with the level of quality or the direction that they're going in. I don't know, but let's just assume that they're all going to be dead at some point or another. Now, what about those animated series, too, from Hulu that we were supposed to be getting as well? Well, you got, what was it, the Vaux-Duck show, the Howard the Duck show?
I know that- Tiger and Dazzler. And Tiger and Dazzler. As I understand it, as recently as the other day I heard Kevin Smith talking about how he's still working on the Howard the Duck show. That's right.
So I assume those animated shows are also still, at least in development, if not, we'll see the light of day. I hope they definitely come out, because I'm excited for them, and I like the idea of Hulu being this alternative for the Marvel Universe. Like, hey, this is the Marvel Universe after dark. Right.
It's actually kind of funny how Hulu may actually become what Netflix was supposed to be, which was like a more harder-edged version of the MCU, but still within the MCU. So I don't love the idea of having to get yet another app. So from what I understand, you can get the new Disney Plus app and Hulu and one of the TSNs all packaged together for a rate. And that's the thing.
If they're going to package in Hulu with Disney Plus, there's no reason not to develop shows for it. They also mentioned, of course, the O-Fenders, which I forgot about, which is their version of the Defenders in terms of let's unify everybody in the animated universe and put them over here. Again, it's also animated. So take it with a grain of salt.
I'm sure that the animation teams they're working on, those shows are not working on the if show, but you don't need the same animation teams working on it. To make it unified. That being said, I would assume those shows that are made right now, anything made under Loeb should probably start coming up with a last-wheeled testament. Because wrap it up, then you're wrapping shit up.
New Boston town. Exactly. So those are the shows that either had been developed or are in development now. Right.
Under this umbrella where Feige is now, she's creative officer and as such reports with Perlmutter and is producing pretty much everything here. With a course, Consideration 2 Disney Plus and what's being produced for that, which includes, of course, Falcon Winter Soldier, WandaVision, Loki, Waddef, Hawkeye, Ms. Marvel, Moon Knight, and She Hulk. Let's not even get into Hawkeye, and whether that's even going to be a thing anymore, because of course Jeremy Renner's whole meltdown.
Yeah, he had a bad time. But then again, I feel the whole part of this Hawkeye show is to kind of put him away and let K-Visho take center stage against him. Maybe he can literally phone it in. He could phone it in.
I mean, like, it's funny because the thing is they don't want to give him more. They don't want to put him in the show anymore. They're trying to accurately figure out how to get Hawkeye out of a Hawkeye show that's built to specifically get rid of him. You know, you either recast and make it really confusing or you risk the press and let him be in it, but maybe you really lessen the impact that Clint Barton was going to have.
Fact is, it's time to meet Clint's brother Barney Barton earlier than you thought everybody. I mean, the fact is, like, this ain't Matt Fractions Hawkeye, no matter how many logos they use. So this dude has a family. He has kids.
He could easily phone it in or at the very least show up in the first scene and be like, Bye. Yeah, my home planet needs me. Yeah, I'm just going to live off the reservation. Goodbye.
Like, I don't know. But that's another, that's another piano worms. But we do know that, like, it's funny how it goes from like, MCU and it transitions into what you assume would have been things they were going to develop for Netflix, where it's like, Falcon, Winter Soldier, Shore, Wand Division, get it. Loki, of course.
Hey, cartoons. Hawkeye getting rid of him anyway. He's old. Ms.
Marvel. You're like, Oh, wait a minute, what? That sounds more like a freeform thing. Moon Knight, She-Hulk.
Okay, no. Those feel like, like real shows or the very least harder edge to potentially shows. You don't think so, yeah? At least trying to do something.
People are asking what Renner did. All right, let's get into it really quick. I want to get into the politics of it, but let's just say that Jeremy Renner had a hard time. Evidently was on some level of substance and threatened to kill his ex-wife and himself with the gun, which he owns.
It's on, it's on record, you can Google the rest. Let's just say, you know, he torched his career in the eyes of Disney. So, you know, there's not much you can do with him. Though hilariously, it was a big news story when it broke, and yet we haven't heard much of it in the last little bit.
It's kind of quieted down, interestingly how that happens. Yeah, it's true. As we transition from the list of shows that we have in our midst and what we think about them, let's do some super chats. What was it?
Adam Asmosa says, Lopez out. I guess Disney gave him an ultimatum. Can't a Coke for you, sir? Yeah, that's solid, man.
That's solid. Good joke. Yeah, there's no evidence. It's like, okay, well, the 911 call I think was enough evidence for whatever.
Lord of Realms, help us out. Thank you very much. Thank you, Lord of Realms. So, yeah, we'll see.
So from there, we're gonna talk about, I love how many people were baiting us in talking about it, and then we're like, Oh, we got you. Now let's get into it. Now let's pick apart your argument. Yeah, that's the internet.
Yo, I don't report the news. I read it and we talk about it. That's the deal. That's how a podcast works.
And hey, we're also trade readers and the trade says that Disney's trying to figure out what to do about it. That's where we are. So you can say there's no evidence all you want to, but like, one, I have no scene in this game. No, I'm not trying to defend it or attack anybody.
Three, it doesn't effing matter. So moving on. Yeah, also talking about it might derail the show. Exactly, which is why I didn't want to do it in the first place, but let's do it anyway.
So yeah, those are the shows that have existed and are kind of being being produced. I mean, the fact is like we just named what was it? Just from Netflix, there was six shows, plus the ABC shows, which makes for nine shows. You look at the Disney Plus shows, you got, what was it?
One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight. Only one fewer. They're already developing under Feige now. Yeah.
So it's like he's already made a proportionate response slash replacement for those other shows on a format that arguably hurts everything. But. As with the old in with the new. Yeah.
So yeah, the question is, as we move forward under this new, more Feige controlled era and loblis time. Well, you know, before we even get into our speculations was just load the problem, because here's the thing. There's a lot of people thought he was. There's a lot of good that came out of the Marvel TV shows.
In fact, a lot of people still like the shows they're on now. People still enjoy ways. They do dig, cloak and dagger, folk work, excited for work, ghost rider, which is one out of agents of shield, which, you know, as much like her, a lot of criticism show about what seven seasons like people were watching the damn thing. So I guess it was popular enough for it to have an audience, especially at that kind of prime time.
I watched it for a time that I was like, that's enough. And I just had to stop. But you know, arguably Lo made some good shows. I mean, the fact is, or at the very least, the oversaw good shows.
I love all three seasons of Daredevil. I loved the first season, Justin Jones. I just dropped out after season one. So I didn't see season two or three.
I loved season one of Luke Cage season two is better in my mind. I really think that was the killer one. I'm glad I stuck around for at least season two of that. Yeah.
And I watched Iron Fist season one. Obviously, I wouldn't take around for season two, which is too bad. I understand you could watch the Daughters of the Dragon series. Defenders, I saw and thought could have been better, but at the same time, it was exciting to see some of these characters interact.
And I loved Punisher. Punisher was cool too. Never saw season two of Punisher because again, I'm like, nope, it's dead. I just I don't have enough hours in the day.
And I don't have any. I can't dedicate them to shows that are either like dead men walking, you know, as you said before, there's too much entertainment. Yeah. So yeah, it's true.
There is too much entertainment. In fact, if you want to see me and another who's talk about it for like an hour, check out the show, watch the playlist. So good stuff, you know, then of course, you look at the animated projects. I don't think there is a strong one since Loeb took over.
It's true. They've all been pretty weak sauce. And it's funny because you look at like the recent Marvel animated show or movies that were produced before Loeb came in, some of them were pretty cool. Yeah.
I cite, of course, Hulk versus Hell yeah. And even the Thor, the Thor movie, I don't know if anybody remembers that one. It was like young Thor. Oh, yeah.
Yeah. I remember that one in the blockbuster. That's how long ago that was. Plus you got Planet Hulk.
I liked Next Avengers. And I kind of dug Ultimate Avengers and Ultimate Avengers too. I got to ever saw those ones actually. They're pretty much straight up adaptations of the comics.
Oh, and I probably like them. Right. I didn't see him as Well Iron Man. I did not yet see Dr.
Strange, the source of Scream. I understand it, at least with Planet Hulk and Next Avengers and Thor, Tails of Asgard. Those were also produced by Kevin Feige. Yeah.
So, you know, there's some continuity there. Oh, yeah, that's right. I forgot about the anime efforts. Like, rise of the Technovore and Avengers, Confidential Blackwood and Punisher, which I also saw.
Didn't see those. I kind of dug the the Blackwood and Punisher movie. And that's when I kind of stopped. That was Norman Reedus as the Punisher, yes.
I assume. I don't know. But there you have it. So, yeah, it's interesting how Loeb is kind of like a harbinger of good and bad.
I mean, it could be that, you know, it doesn't take one person to make a show. It doesn't take one person to make a movie. You can't like voice too much praise on Feige. There are a lot of really great powerful and talented moving parts to make those movies work.
Definitely. And as such, you can't blame everything on Loeb nor can you give him too much praise when it's like Daredevil was a solid show. Yeah. I think Kevin Feige is just so easy to like and Loeb almost deliberately spent so much of his career being surly.
It's really weird how he's not interested in brand management. I mean Feige doesn't have to worry about that. The dude could literally be a douche and people would still like, you know, he is ass and call high screen. So I don't know.
But one of the of the course, the Sourcebots actually brought up by Tavia of all people. And we'll get into that in a second. But this could mean that a bunch of animated projects could come on the scene and be better. I would like that very much.
Because I would argue that all that stuff we mentioned, the Technovore, Planet Hulk, even next Avengers were better than anything that came out under Loeb. And you know what? Now would be a good time too for Feige and Marvel and I'm going to assume Disney plus to up their animation game. Because as we saw Netflix, their next closest competitor now spent millions of dollars getting some of the best animators from television and everywhere being like, okay, here's a blank check, do whatever we want Netflix to be the home of kick ass animation in the future.
Well, and you own your Disney. You own your Disney. Anything great. You know, you look, you could have Pixar make a Marvel movie.
You could even have just the Disney CG animation team who made things like Tangled and, you know, like good stuff that I really enjoy. I just found out the I just found out the other day that Tangled got like a three season continuation on TV and I'm like, really? Oh, and it got pretty it's out. Yes, like it's out.
It got like three seasons of television. Apparently it's pretty good. They do original songs and everything for it and they grew the lore. Wow, that's shocking.
Yeah. Yeah. You got a sequel got three seasons. Weird.
All right. Yeah. But you know, then you got that awful Avengers, then a sample show, that terrible guardian show, Ultimate Spider-Man, which started out strong and then just fell the hell apart. Marvel Spider-Man, which is not very good either.
It just looked worse. Like there's pending less and less money on them. Yeah. Marvel rising doesn't look very good either.
Like the animation's just really bad. The writing's a little stronger than that, at least because they're trying to be different. But yeah, it just doesn't they should look better than this. Agreed.
Oh, I forgot. They also mentioned they're making hit monkey. That's another who animated show. Right.
So yeah, everyone always forgets hit monkey. Well, at least he'll be an offender. But yeah, so now the question is, okay, so we have a list of shows that exist under the Marvel banner that were produced by Loeb and arguably Feige slash his people don't want to be associated with. Right.
Because that's the assumption here. I mean, it's all about ego. It's all about ego. It's all about like, I am getting the credit for this.
It's arguably why we got that problem with Spider-Man and Sony. It's like Feige was like, I help produce some of these other things and I want my name on them. And it's like, dude, you're all they're already making gold statues of you. Do you really need to say you helped produce like, I don't know, or at least helped in some creative fashion into the spider verse?
And it's like, yes, it won an Oscar. Yes. Like fine. I guess I get it.
But if you, I don't know, I'm a poor kid from Jersey. So it's like, if like my assumption is you can reach a limit where you get enough money and fame and power that you're like, all right, I'm good. And then like people tell you like, you know, well, I'm better than you. Well, I just check my bank account and I say no.
Like, yeah, I mean, I guess that's just a thing in Hollywood where you're dealing with such huge sums of money in people's livelihoods so consistently that the only thing that matters is the credit man and how I'll be remembered. I can't take the money with me. It's like that. It's that scene and wag the dog.
You remember wag the dog? Yes. Ladies and gentlemen, there's this great political like comedy thriller thing called wag the dog in which doesn't often helps produce a fake movie or a fake war to help the approval rating of the president and you know, it all works out. They fool the public and he wants the credit for doing it.
And that's all he wants. And then at the end, of course, spoiling a 30 year old movie, he's assassinated for his troubles because like he can't keep his mouth shut and he'd rather die than not get the credit for making something like Bamboo's in the entire American populace. So like, you know, that was produced by these people who know their own. So I trust it.
But yeah, so jumping into the super definitely quick amazing zero says off top new star was trailer guys. Yeah, this new star was the new star. Yeah, B M Bray says I've been waiting 10 years that Jeff Loeb ultimatum joke to happen. It's just sitting on it.
Well, your time has come. I know what can take it away from you. Yeah, Debbie Smoker says, can we bring back Avengers Earth's mightiest heroes just like young justice? No, they won't.
It's hard. And the question is who owns it? Who made it? I mean, the fact is they could because if anyone can a mega conglomerate like Disney could afford it just like Disney could afford to just pay Sony like, okay, how many spider memories are you really gonna make?
Six. So that's what six billion dollars. All right, here you go. Six billion dollars now.
They might suit pants right now here's your six billion dollars shut up. It's all ours. They could literally fix or they could they could cure diseases. They could build every bridge and road and not lose sweat.
Like it's it's it's it's obnoxious. They could produce an entire library of Avengers Earth mightiest heroes directed to digital animated movie adaptations of every single Marvel Comics event and make money and they still won't do it because I don't know it's a gamble. So, you know, I've given up on watching companies do the right thing. You need to convince them that it's the right thing to do publicly and that'll make the money as well.
And it's also profitable. Yeah. Yeah. As if she had help in us out, thank you very much.
And the Iceman says, saw this kind of with the foggy news. I think Feigle just get one of his team to take over. I hope they let Hulu TV be a harder Netflix type show. I agree.
I don't think I think he's not really good delineation. I mean, he's good at picking the right people, but it's not the kind of person who's just like, I won't let somebody else handle that. Like, no, my name's going on that. I think we know now that he's a bit of an ego maniac.
So it's like, he needs to be involved. So, which I mean, what he makes is genuinely pretty good. I mean, I guess I can't fault him. I'm not going to argue.
But yeah, I don't know who he is. He could take over. I don't. That's the thing about coming back in the mystery and the man, the myth, the legend.
I don't know what his team looks like. True. Like, were he to be hit by a bus tomorrow? Who would stand to replace him and continue the continuity of excellence?
I don't know. Does he have an assistant? Does he have several assistants? Yeah.
Does he have a private redundant protege? As we joke last week, there's a Jedi cyst thing. And when I die, you will all fight for the chance to take my place. Gorgonfiches is Power Pack Live slash Cartoon television show or film.
I say show. You got to do Power Pack as a show. I'd say make a cartoon. I think it'd be a lot of fun.
I think kids will enjoy it. That's the place to put Power Pack. Power Pack should and always has been, or should always be a cartoon. By the way, there is a Power Pack live action made for TV show.
It's a Bait to Be a TV movie that's also a pilot for a show. You can find it on YouTube. There's a Power Pack pilot. It sucks.
Lord of Realms says, have you read or heard of Xenoscope comics? Not only have I read them, I have also heard of them. I have these eye-catching covers that are clearly made with an eye of exploitation. Yet, the content within them is nothing of the sort.
The costumes may remain, but it's not just like the curse of the black, whatever the hell. You remember? Tarot. Tarot.
Yes. It's not all just, it's not like Salkor Pono comics. Apparently, they really do actually make fun adventure stories. Though, I haven't picked up a Xenoscope comic since, I don't know, East Coast Comic Con when they gave me a pre-use sample.
So, yeah, let's talk about the shows that you'd like to see, succeed slash come back and who needs a reboot. I think that anything ABC needs to die and stay dead. I mean, you can't really say like you're killing it. They all had very good run.
Right. It's true. Agents of Shield, I think Agents of Shield should go on to Disney Plus and not like bring it back. I mean, just like put it on to put it on Disney Plus because it's a bingeable, long-form, moral-centric show.
Like, stick it in there and then take inventory. Who would you use? You know, I see Absorbing Man's in here. Can you recast without being a problem?
I see Death Locks in here. We're not going to use him, obviously. The Griffin. The Griffin, all the inhuman stuff.
Obviously, we're not going to do any of that. I don't know. I think that the show could have new life in terms of just stick it on the on the stream and just leave it there. But otherwise, I think the less said about it, the better and ignoring it as the way to go.
And it was in so much of its own bubble. That's ultimately fine that you can ultimately get away with that. Agent Carter, that should be a Disney Plus show as well, except it becomes more complicated. You know, any game is here?
Yeah, yeah, it really does, doesn't it? Yeah, I think probably just to keep it, keep it less complicated, you kill that one too. And also, Hayley Atwell is going to be in that one if thing isn't like episode one, like what if Hayley Atwell, Agent Carter became Captain America? Right.
Except she's English, so it'd be Captain Britain, I guess. She would be, although it's funny, apparently on her shield in the like, League of Things, she actually does have a Union Jack. I know, so is that what she becomes? I don't know, it's cool.
And Marvel's and Humans, those are the ABC shows. I honestly believe that the Inhumans will be back in the MCU sooner than you think. We've heard rumors, because obviously they're making, they're making a Ms. Marvel show.
Ms. Marvel's show, it's happening, they're casting, and we're going to, she's an Inhuman. Yep. They're going to end, you have a AAA video game title that was made in the Inhuman era, so you're going to have the, which now of course, who cares, but it's going to explode on the scene, you're going to have other Terrigen Bomb go off in that game, and people are going to be talking about Inhumans again.
I bet it's going to be Donnie Cates to write the new book too, because he did the death of the Inhumans, and he keeps teasing the Inhumans coming back and everything else he's writing. So I think if you tie it in with the game, you tie it in with Ms. Marvel, you cast, and I've heard rumors from Vin Diesel to whatever, that they're, you put Black Bolt and Medusa into the Ms. Marvel show, you get some- That's all you need, they need to show up for an episode.
You get a top tier, get a couple of really, really big name actors to play those characters, and then you see what the buzz is, and then you try Inhumans again. Now again, I don't like Inhumans, I don't care about them, but I think there is room now for them to make a less insistent Inhumans movie. Indeed. Since they don't need to make mutants anymore, it's like, since they got Inhumans back, they can be like, oh, we'll just do Paul Jenkins' run.
Like, we'll just do an intimate story about these guys over there. Do Game of Thrones in space, but also as an Eternal is going to be the two- We don't know, we'll figure that out. Well, Eternal's, honestly, it's hard to find something more boring than The Inhumans until you find The Inhumans. So if they're willing to do that, there's no way they're not going to take another second bite at The Inhumans Apple.
Then you actually do because you're getting Fantastic Four coming out, so it's like, oh, what if we had the Fantastic Four fight The Inhumans, wouldn't that be fun? Wouldn't it be funny if the first Marvel Cinematic Universe Fantastic Four movie introduced The Inhumans? That'd be crazy. That'd be very funny.
That's who they are, that's where they belong. They're second-string supporting Fantastic Four characters, and they're all going to fight the Mole Man and you're going to like it. Have the Royal Family show up in a Black Panther sequel because Black Panther similarly also spun out of the pages of Fantastic Four comics, so let me see them put together. Black Panther too!
Make Black Panther too, The Inhumans movie. King versus King. Yeah. I want to skip the Netflix, I'm going to get to that.
That's the big, like, Kahuna of our conversation here. Marvel's runaways. Fold that right over. That should be easy.
It's already on Hulu. Keep the show going. Make harder references to the MC at large. Maybe give them their own movie if the show gets really popular, or if it is, I don't know.
I've never watched it, but there's two seasons, so people are watching it. Someone must be into it. Right, but you know what? There's nothing wrong with runaways.
The cast is happy. You got a solid team. Now that Loeb's gone, you can really like, up the ante, up the budget, play with that conventional more. Maybe get Brankay Von B, a show runner on that.
Now you got runaways. Now it's a big name thing. Keep it on Hulu, so you can go a little farther with it. Similarly, Cloak and Dagger.
Move that shit to Hulu. Keep it. I said keep it. Why not?
Yeah, it's filling a niche out there, which I like, and I would very much like to see Cloak and Dagger roll into a cameo appearance somewhere else down the line. Exactly! Hell, you could also, of course, combine Cloak and Dagger with the runaways, since they are runaways, not capital R, but still. It's very easy, isn't it?
Right? So those are the ancillary shows. Helstrom, I don't know what you're going to do with that. I assume it'll get, however many episodes they produced, and then they'll kill it.
That's my assumption. Again, I hope it does good if only so they can be like, yes, there is an audience for harder rated, harder-edged Marvel stuff. Right. Obviously Ghost Rider already got killed before the development stage, so Ghost Rider is, they wouldn't, they would kill all the shows if that was the plan, right?
Yeah. They clearly deliberately kill Ghost Rider because Feige has plans for Ghost Rider. Yeah. I bet Ghost Rider shows up in the Blade movie.
That would be a good place for him, and then you're that much closer to Midnight's Sons or whatever else you want to call it. Exactly. Before we move on, jumping into the Super Chats, Preston Brine says, I think Cloak and Dagger runaways are supposed to have a crossover. It is, in fact, supposed to have a crossover.
Really? Well, that's good then. And not only that, they've also had a crossover. Cloak and I literally appear in Vons Run, Off Runaways.
They are connected. So, hashtag is all connected. You could definitely put them together. Good.
And so, you get, and that saves some money. Hey, now it's one show, screw it. But honestly, that's what you do with those shows are viewed, they're popular, and they work within the format that you're making them for. Stick them on who will leave it there.
Helstrom, honestly, I feel like it's going to die. But what I worry about is that they're already pitching it like every other paranormal detective show from the beginning of time. I know. They made 10 episodes.
The show is being made, and they're not going to waste money. They inherited the wasted money of New Mutants, which they don't know what the hell they're going to do. But with Helstrom, it's like, well, they technically paid to make it. So, you know, we got to put it out somewhere.
But, yeah, it could be the supernatural of the Marvel Cinematic Universe. I'm so glad you mentioned Supernatural because that's a show that I never got into. But I respect that it was as long as long as it did. But I'm mad at Supernatural because it cannibalized so many tropes and so many storylines from your archetypical paranormal comic book detective, Allah Constantine, Allah Jim Butcher, Allah, Damian Helstrom.
So, it comes time for those shows to actually be made. Everyone's like, oh, this is derivative of Supernatural. I'm like, oh, it's the other way around. Yeah, no, they just couldn't make those shows.
So, they made Supernatural. Yeah, which I cannot believe. I know. I know.
Then you got the Netflix thing. Now, here's the thing. Netflix, what was, do you remember, like, why did they make a show rather than make the movie of Daredevil? I don't know.
Because I guess because it was a brand that had already like, you know, flopped at the box office once before, they wanted to show people that it was different or that maybe they felt that Daredevil thrived better with long-form stories, which I kind of think he does. I agree. With Daredevil, I think that everyone involved at that level works in a movie. I think, you know, from Daredevil to Foggy to Karen to the motherfucking kingpin.
Definitely. They all work as a movie. You don't really need the context of three seasons of the show. No, they can mostly just show because that's the beautiful part about Daredevil.
He was always the most TV-ready, media-ready prepackage like, yo, lawyer by day, superhero by night, Catholic guilt. Here you go. These are the characters moving on. Yeah.
I think that what they should do with Daredevil is they should start pushing him as a movie. Obviously, they have like that contract, you know, that the contract clause with Netflix, it probably would be cleaner if they just said, and the whole thing's over and we're just gonna reboot. Yeah. But Charlie Cox is too good and Vincent and I was too good and definitive.
Honestly, I love the both. I love both Foggy and Karen. If you treat it like a soft reboot and you're like, you don't really need the show, we're not gonna refer to it too much, if at all. And hey, don't be surprised if like Purple Man and stuff show up in the movies and stuff and they're not gonna look or sound or act like the guys from the last one.
We're only keeping the stuff that worked. I think everyone would collectively be like, right on, like no one's gonna argue with you. No, exactly. People would come to it.
I maybe we're more accepting of this kind of soft reboot stuff because they do it in comic books all the time. But I think general audiences, Joe and Jane popcorn are getting better at this kind of thing. Like, the last couple of last black movies were just like, yo, and this is what we call a retcon everybody. And this is what we also call a soft reboot.
The fact is, if people are still complaining that we don't have like movies like Logan, then the argument that people don't understand like reboots and resets and all that stuff is out the window because X-Men is a mess and it was made by the same freaking studio. Like, X-Men one, two and three. Okay, that was all feed together. X-Men Origins Wolverine doesn't make any sense and doesn't fly us into the direct face of some of the origin stuff from the original movies.
Okay, that's your first continuity problem. First class, also, same deal. Also, Days of Future Past. Like, same deal.
Oh, also, Apocalypse. Also, like every single movie picks and chooses whatever it wants and does whatever it wants and contradicts each other. And some of them happened and some of them didn't or something got undone. Like, I was expecting them to really deliberately undo X-Men 3 with this bitch past, but they kind of didn't.
No, they really didn't, which men. After a fact were those movies not the most faithful to X-Men lore? Where it's like, no, we're just gonna pick and choose and it's all a man. Right, it's all just a mess.
So if that's the case, I think we can get away with just being like, Charlie Cox is Daredevil, you know, the two, the fucking Karen of the same actors and Vincent and Alfred has Kingpin and that's what we're keeping and the rest of it's all garbage. That's like really all you need. And again, you can get around it towards like, hey, here's Bull's like, no, he's not the guy from the thing, but he's wearing a movie costume and a mask so you never have to look at his face. Right.
Like, no, we recast Bull's like, we got another actor for that. We recast literally everybody except for Kingpin. Here's a lecturer, she's also in her comic costume. Now, she regenerated, she went through a phase, she changes her outfit.
Hell, we just do it again. And there's a lot of people who have a problem with Elodie Young. I loved her as a lecturer. I thought she was really cool.
I really, really liked her in that. But I get the argument. So like with the lecture, I would probably avoid it for as long as I could. Jessica Jones, cool new show.
Yeah, that would be perfect for that. Again, especially because Jessica Jones was never the most expensive of the shows. Cheap show to make doesn't need to be on a team. Never really was.
So like putting Jessica Jones on the defenders. Okay, cool. I get it. But unnecessary.
Really what you need with Jessica Jones. Jessica Jones was a commentary on the rest of the MCU. So what you really need is maybe cameos in her show, but not her being on a team. You need other people to show up in her show, not her to show up in your movies.
That's a really good way of looking at it. And I especially want Luke Cage to show up in there too, so we can eventually build their relationship, which is something I've always liked from the books. Agreed. Now with Luke Cage, I would make a Luke Cage movie.
I would just get my culture and be like, no, Luke Cage movie, I you're not going to be able to do what you did with the show. It sucks. And I've hate it, but you're not going to be able to do that direct thing. And what I'm saying by that is you're not going to be able to get away with as much harder edge violence.
And hopefully you can get some social commentary in there in the Black Panther like clearly Killmonger's whole impetus is a commentary and it's like you could probably get away with that. I would love American like I would love a flip side Killmonger type movie where it's like racial like, like, precious and American and how Luke Cage the commentary on that. Michael just a movie actor anyway. Absolutely.
And I'm only getting more and more popular in movies. And I think he's he'd be happy to play Luke Cage again. And again, he also embodies the character so much too. It would be hard to see someone else in that role.
If we save anyone else from that show and this is also the good thing about Luke Cage is he's not exactly known for his supporting cast. So it's very easy to just pick and move him around. Can we have Bushmaster Backus? He was a really freaking good villain.
Oh man. Really good. Yeah, he was good. I mean, that'd be fine.
I mean, he's not in charge. Yeah, but like if not, you could you could do anything. Hell, you could, you know, well, yeah, you could do anything you want. And you know, you don't really need Bushmaster Backus's story actually had a really good conclusion and he had a good arc, which is why Luke Cage season two is so strong.
But so that's my fanboy that I just want to see this guy again. Right. I agree with you. Iron Fist.
Here's the thing. I don't even know why they bothered to make Iron Fist show in the first place. Like, I don't know why they were like Iron Fist that one. I guess because they were making a Luke Cage show.
I guess because Iron Fist technically would be easy to film because he only has one supernatural attribute that needs CG. And they still fucked it up. I can't believe how badly with Iron Fist, I wouldn't try. Like, I would literally just leave it alone.
You have Shang-Chi now. You can totally junk the whole thing and not lose any. And I would argue like, you know, if you wanted to Iron Fist in the future, you could, but the longer away it is from the original Iron Fist, the better. And then you can obviously just reboot the whole damn thing.
I'm sad we lose Colleen Wing. Get that actress. Get that actress and have her play Colleen Wing or have her play anybody else in the rest of the MC. Just bring her back.
She's a great actress. She'll do great in whatever she's doing. But Iron Fist, I would just walk away. You know, it's funny.
I feel with what is it about Iron Fist the same way I feel about Green Arrow, where it's like, it's going to take a long time to shake these versions that exist for Good or Elle. I think not. See, I think that with the bad versions and with the bad blood, it's you just don't. Like, you literally just move on.
Like, if you had Iron Fist show up in Shang-Chi and somebody else, most people are going to be like, okay, or cool, because they never saw it. Again, he wears a mask and never wore it on the show. So just have him show up wearing the mask. I am Iron Fist now.
Maybe I'm the same actor. Maybe I'm not, but that's definitely Iron Fist. And he doesn't look like the TV show. So that's an Iron Fist.
Yeah. Defenders is entirely contingent on the Netflix model. So the Defenders is gone. You don't do it, senders.
Or you bring it back and it's like, Defenders is a Doctor Strange team. Defenders was also our Netflix, arguably their biggest failure. They wanted their Avenger sized hit and they didn't get it. Nope.
And that might also be due to Jeff Loeb and the showrunners. So with them gone, you could get another bite at Defenders, but I would just move on. I would just be like, no, we're not going to do that. And Punisher, same people, same deal, keep John Bernthal moving on.
Like literally, it's really, really good. And here's my quickie pitch for bringing Punisher into the MCU. Spider-Man 3, Punisher tries to kill Spider-Man. Hey, we do the Jack-O-Star.
You just do the Jack-O-STORR. You replace Jack with somebody else, that way you can shoehorn in yet another villain. I would say if you're good, you're not going to do this. Because, you know, and everyone's going to scream at me right now.