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Alright, let's get on with the show. Waiting down upon the underworld to smash gangland comes a friend of the unfortunate enemy of criminal. In a serious, powerful character, a problem to the police, but a crusade of a law. Hello, everybody, and welcome to the elseworlds exchange with Sal.
And I'm Joel. Today we're going to talk about what if comics. We're not going to talk about Elsworlds books, even though that is our namesake. That's going to be relegated to a whole separate episode.
Do we do that yet? No, I think that's one of our in case of emergency break glass and do an Elsworld on Elsworlds. Exactly. So we will do an Elsworlds exchange on the Elsworlds titles, but it's really different from, you know, I've always likened the Elsworlds to being like DC's What If.
It's not entirely accurate because, no, elseworlds are more like evergreen. What if Batman were green lambs are? What if Batman were Superman? What if Superman were Batman?
What if Superman grew up in the 1800s? That kind of like big idea. What if it was more like, what if, in issue 604, this one thing that we all know happened? Or maybe you didn't because you don't read all the comics ever?
That thing that happened didn't happen. They're very particular, aren't they? And as I went back through my own long boxes and looking through it online, I'm like, Jesus Christ, some of these are ridiculously specific. Like, what if the Avengers fought in the Kree skull war, but without Rick Jones?
Right, which like is basically the same thing except that he was a weird plot device. You know, like, what if Captain America were revived today? And by today, of course we mean 1992. You know, that kind of thing is ridiculous.
That's really funny what if Captain America was resurrected today? Feels like they do that every 10 years, though, Retail is Origin and move the clock up. Oh yeah, well, I remember just one of my gris with Civil War I, familiar with just like people being like, Captain America, it's not 1945 anymore. And I'm like, motherfucker's been alive for 20 years.
He's been waiting for 20 years. Like, he knows that he was a cell phone. It's funny too, and I'm sure you recognize this too, because I tried to do a whole little side thing here. I'm like, what are some what ifs I'd like to see?
Many of them have A already happened or B happened in different side universes, like the Ultimate Universe or the Spider-Gwen universe. Right, right. That's true. But I have noticed that what if books over time have morphed into the elseworlds model?
Where it went from like, what if this one specific thing didn't happen in this one very particular episode or issue? Instead, it was what if Spider-Man was Punisher? What if Spider-Man was Captain America? What if Spider-Man insert reason you Spider-Man because he's the what if equivalent of the elseworld Batman?
It really is. He gets around that Peter Parker doesn't it? First for an issue. What if is what if Spider-Man were on the Fantastic Four?
The answer to that question is they changed the number to five. Kyle McCurdy in the Super Chats is hi. Hello, Mr. Roboto is Canada the New Jersey elseworlds?
Kinda. Like, what if New Jersey was a country? In a lot of ways. Yeah, and everybody was more friendly.
Kind of. Because we both produce really funny people who are trying to outgrow our origins or humble origins. So we're just going to talk about a couple of our favorites, a couple of key What if books and then maybe pitch a few of our own? Yeah.
And this is all inspired by the fact that Marvel for no reason whatsoever decided to roll out with the new What Ifs they're going to put out in October? Yep, just kind of apropos of nothing. But I like stuff like that just out of the blue. Like hey, you weren't expecting this.
But here you go. Agreed. Mocking. What if we resold old stories?
No one read. Yeah, exactly. One deep. What was it?
They're releasing some books coming out. What if Spider-Man were Punisher? What if Flash Thompson were Spider-Man? What if cited for that one?
Yeah, what if Magic were Sorcerer Supreme? I guess? Yeah, which almost came close to happening. I think in the Ben this year's or a little after Magic was like his apprentice.
Yeah. And what if Ghost Rider? I don't know what the hell the thing is. No, I don't know who that's supposed to be either.
It's someone with a guitar. Who plays guitar? I don't know. It's obvious.
I mean, it's obviously the Robbie Ray is like Ghost Rider, which means that it like I guess Eli Morrow's evil spirit will then have it's something else or something else. Who took guitar lessons? So if you keep like letting Jason Aaron tell Ghost Rider stories, then like no one will ever know the true origin from Robbie Ray. No, it's true.
And somewhere poor Felipe Smith is pulling out his fucking hair somewhere. Yeah. Oh, and by the way, before we forget also the tear of death. I prefer what if over Elsworlds?
Fair enough. I don't. I find that, you know, it's easier to make a list of favorite what if books because there's so many what if books. They're really are.
Many of them are goddamn terrible. And yet they're short though, at least what if so, we stay short where Elsworlds sometimes go a little longer. Yeah, they're forgivably brief. And it's mostly because they explore the concept and then they go, oh crap, that there's nowhere for this to go.
And this we're done. Yeah. Comic Goblin. It's four.
It's two damn early o'clock for you. But you guys make these together morning. Have a great day. Fellas you too.
Sorry to get up. So we're that blows indeed. Mod King will be what if Dazzler found the Avengers in the 80s. I get to be funny.
I don't know how she would even get their phone number. She'd be like, Hi, Avengers. And in the 80s, they'd be like, Hello, what do you want? She's like, I'm Dazzler.
And I know. She's like, I'm not Dazzle Powers. I can turn sound into magic. Not quite comic girl.
Comic book girl 19 is my favorite fan. Yeah, really. Oh, well, in that case, even though she wouldn't be born yet. Maybe no, she was.
So I don't know how old she is older than she acts. So the, what was it? Favorite? What if books?
Oh, before we jump into the mile, I also wanted to say what if Flash Thompson were Spider-Man? By the way, they did it already. I'm sure they have a lot of these. They did already in a big, bad way too.
It was I think it was called what if. Oh, crap. Oh, Tiffany says she likes my haircut. Thank you very much.
I got a haircut. I noticed any got a new set behind you too. I did. Yeah.
Yeah. We're. It's none of the improv. Here on Elsworld Exchange.
Yeah. Beat me to it. I was going to say live from the 90s comedy club. It's comic, blah, blah, blah, or piece of toast.
You know, selling piece of toast really don't like each other backstage completely different people. Apparently we have some demons. Yeah, it was called something like what if Peter Parker had to destroy Spider-Man and basically the and I want to talk about there because I know a lot of people are going to buy that. What if Flash Thompson was Spider-Man story and it's like, so I want to see what the parallels are.
But in that one, Flash Thompson is like shows up because Peter Parker is adjacent to a chick that Flash Thompson is like seeing on the side at the science exhibit. Obviously. So the spider like he pushes Peter out of the way and he gets bit by the spider. He gets by the spider.
But because he's still an adolescent douche nozzle, he is telling the he uses his like newfound powers to bully Peter into helping him become Spider-Man. He's making a superhero. So like Peter makes him the spider suit and like Peter is his like lackey and Flash is basically like a performer and then he becomes like a douche. He's really aggressive and then Peter decides like he's had enough and so he decides to try and defeat him.
And so Peter uses his own intelligence to build like kind of like a doc ock like a armed suit and he goes flash Thompson thinks that Spider-Man is a silly name. So he goes by the spider. So when Peter decides to make his like his like there was a Spider-Man like sidekick character. It was like this fat over like nerdy like fanboy type person who had like a spider suit and it's basically that but for Peter Parker.
And so Peter builds this, Dom's the name Spider-Man, but he's just Peter Parker in a cool like mech suit and he uses it to fight Flash Thompson. And then he defeats him and Reed Richards develops a serum that takes away Flash Thompson's Spider-Pow. And he reverts engineers in and then says oh I actually can give you his spider powers if you want them. And Peter Parker's like no thanks, pours it down the drain and says like I'm a better Spider-Man than like he ever was.
And so like and the daily people likes me because he doesn't wear a mask and he's just like home like local boy makes good you know builds a cool suit fights evil and shows his face. And then it shows like a kind of like a menagerie of images of like this maskless Spider-Man defeating like all his rogues but using his like technology and brain. It's really weird. Sounds weird but also kind of cool.
Yeah and you're like well he wouldn't have been invited to go to the Secret Wars and so he wouldn't have gotten the Vemstin but I see Vemstin here so whatever. So I guess that happened anyway. Yeah when you really start to think of the ripple effect of some of these. Oh yeah oh no there's a great one from I think the 70s maybe it was the early 80s which was what if Spider-Man's clone had survived.
Yes I remember that one. Which was like hilarious when I picked it up when the clone saga was happening. In retrospect now oh yeah what if he lived what if he never went away. Yeah and I liked it it was actually because what if as a title first of all I guess we should talk about what if it's a title really quick.
For me I don't know this for a fact. I'm not going to say this was exactly what happened. But I want to say that Wyeth was basically a testing ground for new writers. Oh yeah.
And new artists where they were like we want to see if you can make a monthly book but we also don't want to give you more than one book and we don't want you to screw up a title that actually matters. So draw this who gives a shit story that doesn't matter has no continuity but it also involves a few key characters so we can see if you can consistently draw you know Spider-Man or any number of like human looking characters and also if you can craft a decent story. Right. I mean that's how I mean Dan Slott made his bones he wrote what if Dr.
Doom became Sorcerer Supreme. And it's not bad it's actually kind of fun and it's a little better than most of the really terrible ones which are numerous and plenty. But yeah but what if was a title that also refused to die. Started out in the 70s was a neat idea and they just like volume one volume two volume three then when like Civil War comes around they start doing all those one shots and now they're resurrecting the one shots again making all the way up books.
And that was I think the beginning when they started doing the one shots they were like I guess we do like more more broad titles and they dropped the whole like what if this very specific thing happened and there's one specific story from 20 years ago. It was more like what if annihilation what if Civil War. Yeah for all the big events. Yeah what if siege and some of them are really cool and some of them are more in line with what I remember what if to be.
I think I remember what was like the last what if they did what if Avengers vs. X men what if Magneto actually started acting confidently in the beginning and killed most of them at the beginning of the fight. Exactly. Which I mean you know like if you ever want to see your favorite characters die in horrific ways like usually there's a what if that will give you that satisfaction.
Tell me how you wrote that one if I do recall. Yeah no when what if became cache or when it was like like not a regularly monthly title. Real writers were like I want to do one. In fact then it says written a number of what if titles about his own books or books books what if Karen Page lived is written by Brian Michael Bendis and it fucks with the Kevin Smith story but it also massages his own ego because what if books are great because okay it was always it had been for a very long time book ended by the watcher watch shows that he says hello I'm the chronicler of everything it's how I knew who the watcher was it took me a long time before I got to like the coming of Galactus and stuff so my introduction to what to earth's This bald sometimes really fat old man or sometimes thin baby headed dude.
Yep and the so watcher which I was like I'm the chronicler I'm doing only watch but sometimes I pay attention to like what might have happened instead what actually happened here's one of those stories. Do you think you'll be back for these new what ifs or do you think they'll get the unseen make him do that. I think I think someone will do an unseen reference but like when they started to make them when they started high profile careers on the books they dropped the watcher and they basically turn them into like in the what if Karen Page lived it's just been sitting at a bar being like but what if Karen Page lived it's just a very like tongue in cheek grant more a Sonyan fourth wall breaking the authors in the story kind of thing and it's like it doesn't make it's like it's like a great thing. It doesn't quite work but it also is funny because it betrays the business's writing style because they're running commentary throughout the book is this narration that is normally done by the protagonists which usually daredevil or Jessica Jones or Iron Man they all sound exactly the same and they're all just benders.
Also I think what if Karen Page lived is like 18 pages of something it's like the shortest benders book but he also did another one what if Jessica Jones and it's what alias and that one basically after the Avengers beat the tar out of her for being controlled by purple man attacking them. In the original continuity shells in the screw themselves but in this continuity she says like okay I'm gonna like I'm gonna forgive you like her life is a hundred times better isn't it. She ends up like noticing that one is freaking out. Like in Avengers mansions so she like to she's the shield liaison they basically say we have no oversight we want you to be in charge of like taking care of like or keeping us grounded watching our backs.
So like she's at Avengers mansions like just check in boxes and she sees one in a room like talking to invisible babies and she's like one just freaking out everybody's she may be getting on this. And so they immediately deal with her so like how so never happens and like she and cap start like talking to each other and ultimately like she and cap bang and then they get married and then she ends up happier than she's ever been and you're like oh my god how depressing. There but for the grace go you Jess. Yeah really quick I want to address the super chats Mr.
Giggles hey guys hi Tiffany was in the chat before it cooks your all day every day indeed. Mr. Kamagal and I would really love to see what if the ultimate universe of Roy versus 16 in the accursion. The ultimate universe continue with the weight of that I love that idea.
Something Ben just would have written if he stayed. I feel like it's definitely got to be in a drawer somewhere. Pad Parge, sorry about that. My favorite is Marvel team number 137 What If at May and Frankly Richards versus Alactus.
It's a great joke. One of my favorites is What If No One Was Watching The Watcher and just a bunch of like stupid editorial jokes just tossing out these like really really dumb jokes that I like when they get inside baseball. Yeah Tony Elizondo What If In Humans Were Cool again great book I think if anyone was going to write it probably Charles Sol. DM 0M0 what are there some ways that came into continuity?
Yes a whole bunch. What kind? One I was working on I thought I was so smart for coming up with this only to find out that actually kind of happened. What if the Punisher's family was never killed again that happened in the Gwenpool universe he became a cop and then they kind of recycled that too for the ultimate universe where he became a cop again to fight crime.
Yeah and in that regard I feel like that's kind of more like following the natural progression of the character at least people to understanding them as opposed to somebody like read that book and like I'm going to do the what if make it happen. I feel like the nature of what if lends itself to repetition and like accidental copying. You know it's not like they had that idea where they stole that idea it's more like oh it turns out like this is where you would go with this idea. They also did an X-Men one that I quite enjoyed that kind of ended up happening but in a weird way it's like what if Professor X and Kane Marco switched places so what if Professor X became the juggernaut and juggernaut became nothing.
So basically he became onslaught years before onslaught was a bad idea. And then in fact juggernaut losing the crystal of Ciderack is part of onslaught's development. Yeah like Professor X pulls it out his chest it's actually kind of prophetic. Yeah the terror of death do not talk about the Brian Michael Bendis I'm still pissed at him.
Yeah Superman is hot garbage and Mr. Roboto what if I asked for became Galactus's Herald I like that idea. I don't know if I've ever seen that one if it exists I'll have to read it if it doesn't that would be cool to see. You feel like it had to like I had another one I wanted to pitch what if what if Derek of the left New York was stick in the Frank Miller story like he was supposed to join the chase destroy the hand like did that happen I feel like that has to have had to have been.
No I don't think that's a book. Okay that's my pitch that one that's a great one that's a great pitch. Of course we all know what to have you smoke is a favorite what if issue is it's the debut of May May Day Parker my favorite what if is Spider Girl. Yeah that was another one that like became real in as much as what if the Tom De Falco was like what if we actually got a chance to tell the story about like her having about Pete and marriage and having the kid.
And it wound up becoming like such a sensation and such a like obviously developed idea that they spun it into its own whole imprint into the universe. Oh yeah. And it's never like the last time it happened was Spider-Man was just what if this neat idea and then they turn it into a whole other universe. Yeah it was filled with a lot of interesting what if what if Daredevil had become the kingpin and stayed that way would have been grim never went to space and became a cop.
Yeah exactly by the way I was rereading on a amalgam book called assassins where it's Slade Murdock and Selena who gives a shit and they were fighting against a combination of the Riddler and the kingpin. Big question right. Big question. It's got to be the worst idea but then again that's just the kind of eloquence I come to expect from DJ Chichester.
So I was just so fun I was reading that I'm like god damn it but you're talking kingpin reminded me of the big question. The big question. I mean you know what the hell the big question is what the hell got. And I bet he felt so clever writing that the big question.
Actually no you know what got me into it was actually I was going through some wizards and I found an interview about amalgam from Chichester talking about or no somebody else talking about the big question talking about what a crappy idea that was. There was practically no oversight so we could just do whatever. Pad Pardchas sorry my pitch what if Iron Man got a new symbiote or a new symbiote like what if Iron Man got a symbiote. Right which they kind of did in infamous Iron Man because his suit was made of symbiote like jeans as well so it was alive and could come on to him and stuff so they basically did that.
Yeah and if they ever did it again like as a what if book it'd be cool because the Iron Man and Secret Wars was Jim Rhodes. So you get a cool you get a cool story out of the deal. Absolutely. And the terror of death what if Vulcan stayed on earth instead of going into space he probably would have annoyed readers there too.
No matter where you went. Disappointments. Another idea that they played with and eventually did more than once I'm pretty sure what if Hulk was always as smart as banner. Right.
Yeah the Hulk lends himself a lot of what ifs because usually the only scenario you could have ended the Hulk with was what if he's not the Hulk anymore what if he's always the Hulk. What if someone else was the Hulk. Well later on it was like what if somebody else the Hulk but there are a ton of Hulk what if books. The one that stands out to me was this weird period when what if was just unofficially determined to be a horror series.
And then they called it like what if the dark corner of the Marvel universe is really underscore that says something like that. But it was so weird where it's like what the crap are you doing there's one where a Spider-Man basically that his him getting bit by the Spider turns him into like slowly over time he starts to morph into a horrible Spider-Monster. Oh like the fly starts killing people. Like and it's really creepy I think I read that one.
It's great and then his wife just it was like when Stacy just has a murder him or something. And then there's a Hulk one where it's like what if the Hulk was the idea is basically that like the gamma bomb takes his sensitive tortured abused self. And turns that into a kind of like energy being who is like a manifestation of his insecurities. But like the rage monster is Bruce Banner.
So like a super abusive douchebag who gaslights Betty and just makes her into like an abused shut in. So it becomes his own father. Yes and the story ends with a really like dark note that says this story deals with domestic abuse and domestic abuse a very real and dangerous thing. And if you know anyone with it call this phone number I'm like whoa whoa what the hell just happened I wanted to read a Hulk book.
But that being said I was really like I'm thinking back down now like that's really cool that they did that. But yeah there was a weird period or a weird chapter in What if History like where they were like if we're gonna do what if it has to go dark it always has to be that it has a down ending and has to be like misery incarnate. They eventually walked that back a little bit over time. Tales from Island Sea what if Stanley became a best-selling author?
The world would be very different and probably not as cool. If you become like the children's author he pretended to be before comics became a thing. Keenan Meyer what if Tom Keenan was good. What a world that would be.
Mine Freak 555 Jane Foster Thor came from What if and Agents of Atlas from What if the Avengers were formed in the 50s. Yeah there was also there was literally what if what if what if what if Jane Foster were Thor. Crazy right. Yeah and it's basically just a blonde Thor like Arab Lon female Thor I'm like yep.
Matt Young what if the comic book wrote The Power of the Fantastic Four. Who gets what power is the real question. I feel like Ethan would be Mr. Fantastic.
Ben would be the human to arch Tiffany would be the invisible woman and I'd be the thing. But I'd want to mix it up a little bit so you know let us know in the comments down below who should have which power. I resent the idea of making Tiffany invisible woman because I always make fun of the invisible woman as like. I know you think about that horrible 90s theme song.
Oh I know. Where it's like Reed Richards is elastic and then like Sue the line for Sue is Sue can fade from sight. Boy does she. Just like Sue can go away.
Get out of here Sue. Sue can make some sandwiches. Aww. Just depressing so I don't want to like relocate.
Plus you're not a hack writer so you don't want to make Tiffany invisible woman just because she's the girl. Exactly. But I also think like she's kind of like the unsung hero of the team so she kind of is invisible woman. Which is what Sue is supposed to be.
Right. Will I am golden what if the Super Soldier serum turns Steven to the Hulk. That'd be dope. Mmm.
There's a lot of cool stuff. What ifs with the Super Soldier serum and who gets it or who joined Weapon Axe or who could have. Oh yeah. The Terror of Death wasn't Spider-Verse a collection of What ifs stories.
Yeah. Kind of when you break it down they were alternate universes but they might as well have been. Exactly. Yeah.
Into the Spider-Verse or whatever the hell it was called like the title that debuted Spider-Gwen and stuff. It was very much that. I mean the What If books are basically just multiversity. But with no characters in them.
And then I remember like when Exiles came out I'm like sweet we're going to go to all the What If books and they just started making up their own. I'm like you use a couple of these. You might as well right. Spider-Verse did however pluck a few of those characters from the What If books.
For instance it was kind of like a recent one from I think 10 years ago the Spider-Man vs Wolverine story. Oh that's right. Spider-Man basically became like an assassin and he got this cool like a Sassons Spider-Man suit. And that one shows up.
I think it's killed. He does. They kill a couple. There's also the news strip Spider-Man which might as well be what if what if Spider-Man was a new strip and he gets killed.
Totally. And Mr. Roboto saying what if Aunt May, Harold, a Galactus and a second Spider or ma'am. Yep.
Now we mentioned her and goddamn it. What a weird and silly world comics are. Sure is. I wanted to surprise they never tried to pitch because they were trying to distance themselves from the story by the time it was all over.
Although I think they did do like a parody version of it. And it would be like you know what if Secret Empire never ended? What if it kept going and in fact as far as we could tell from leaks they actually wanted to keep pushing it a little longer? I feel like they should have.
I mean like Secret Invasion ended way too soon and just put everything back to the way that they wanted them to. They did Usher Dark Rain which was awesome but I kind of really wish they had like pushed it a little more. Like all those teasers about like get used to Srels being here and like kind of like changing the whole world and making an alienation kind of story. Way more interesting than not doing it.
And I think I would have had more respect for them if Secret Empire just kept going. But it was so accelerated. I don't know if that was a big thing. It was.
Yeah. So you got that. Yeah. But there were a lot of dark rain had a what if.
See each had a what if there's a ton of like recent what ifs we were like whoa. Like I mean what was it I was thinking about one recently. What if Spider-Man had not married Mary Jane like we saw that one. We've been living it for a decade.
We didn't die. Oh yes. What if Jean Grey actually did die is the real question. And stayed dead for a long period of time.
Yeah. I think Spider-Man suit I agree. It's really nice in one of the spider books like one of the spider getting books but I was like and he died so I don't think he should be but I thought I saw it somewhere. I hope that suit shows up in the video game.
Yeah. Oh every Spider-Man suit ever should be in every video. It should be in the video game. And they'll charge it to you for a book 99.
Yeah. Terror of death secret invasion should have could have fixed Hank. I've always submitted it should have. You could literally just been like it was a scroll the whole time.
There's nothing you did with Hank Pym that you couldn't just roll back by being like he was a scroll since like the was or not the was yellow jacket was just Hank Pym being a sleeper scroll who was freaking out. Did they ever do a what if Hank didn't hit his wife story? No and they really should have if they did it was like incidental you know like what if something else happened and it had ripple effect but like they really should do that or at the very least like they should reveal that he really was a scroll the whole time just for something Nathan Berg helping us out in the super chat they very much. I was thinking about a couple other ones that like I remember being introduced to Marvel events as a result of what if you know like stories that I'd never heard of or never would have been able to collect because back when they came out they didn't have them any collection you have to go back and find them and in back issues bins.
Yeah. I've read this a number of times from 91s what if Marvel superheroes lost Atlantis attack. And I'm like first of all what's Atlantis attacks and then it's like oh well everyone becomes serpent people and like Spider-Man is cruelly murdered by Grey Hollow and stuff and then everyone is just devoured by serpents and they take over and you're like what the crap even happened I didn't realize there was that much that the stakes were this big and then it's like yeah no they were and you know why they were that big because Jim Valentino creator of Shadowhawk were that freaking stupid. Yeah you did.
What was it? Papparate. Chat had a good pitch there. What if superior.
No good. I was just saying I had a good one there got me thinking what if superior Spider-Man never stopped would have just stayed in the body. That's like a that's like a no brainer I'm shocked that isn't the thing. Because you figure the only reason he quit was so they could save Anne Marie Anne Marie would die but he would stay in the body.
Right exactly it was like when when I did I was thinking about the when I mentioned earlier the what if Karen Page had lived like what if Bull's I didn't kill her basically Daredevil just kills the kingpin because he's the one who sold the stereo the information about his secret identity. And then he so then Matt Murdock gets arrested and his identity is revealed and then Karen Page dies of a drug overdose. Oh well. So you're like the answer is she still would have but just different it's like fuck you bitches.
The answer is everyone would have been sad. Yeah. So pop pad par dasha says what if Spider-Man comics Spider-Man comics aged in real time. They did I think it was one of the last what if books in chronology they did like what if the next generation it was about like what if nobody came home from secret wars.
And so like all the Marvel Superhero they just paired off had kids those kids are raised on battle world and some of them die and it's basically it was the inspiration for that Avengers next or next Avengers. But yeah like those characters aged and it made sense I'd love to see that. Speaking of outside the box pictures here's one that just came to me right now what if the actors from the MCU movies woke up tomorrow and had the powers of their characters like what if Chris Evans was actually had Super Soldier Serum and Robert Downey Jr. actually had a working set of Iron Man armor.
I'd like to see them consult the people like because you know Chris Hemsworth or Chris Evans has like serious like social anxiety or whatever. Yeah. I could imagine it being like oh no I have to be Captain America for real now it's already a crippling responsibility to like visit children's wards of hospitals in America and like try and make them feel good even though they're dying like to actually be responsible for trying to save people being Captain America it'd be terrifying. It'd be a little much but it might be fun to see and Chris Hemsworth be like oh well I'm falling with this.
Yeah I'm not gonna do a voice though I'm gonna still be Australian. I'm gonna still be Australian now you'll got a deal with it. Yeah. Aaron Inatelli says what if Marvel editorial didn't fuck Spider-Man agreed.
They did one it was kind of like a what if book like 101 ways to end the clone saga. Ah yes. And that one was kind of like a bunch of what ifs about like editorial being in the way of Spider-Man so we're almost there and we'll find what Uncle Ben was a founding member of Shield I love that idea. I want to see like most of my what if pictures are basically just like what if they didn't take this really good idea and then just stop doing it what if they kept it going like Spider-Man living in Avengers Tower with Aunt May who knows who he is cohabiting with Captain America there should have been a lot more Steve Rogers and May interactions.
And it was sorely lacking and I remember like when they announced that Spider-Man was gonna move into the Avengers Mansion I emailed Joe Casado and I was like does this mean that man Steve Rogers is gonna like actually talk and get to know each other and he said something like I think you see we're going with this. And I was like this is great and then they never really went that far with it. They went and did it a little bit but no no. It's like what if they actually pursued the ideas that they were so good that it was worth doing.
Mr. Roboto what if Wonder Man was the last official Avenger? I like the implication of that where it's like you know like there are no more Avengers or we don't take any more members or Wonder Man is the founder. There's a lot of neat ideas there.
Hector Esparza what if Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch were Magnetos kids? Lull? You won't have to wait for that one. You won't have to wait for that one.
That one's ready. What if we never actually retconned it? Yeah or what if we just retconned it that quickly. And they will.
Pad Pardasha sorry what if Aunt May was killed instead of Uncle Ben they did that one. I think it was called what if Uncle Ben had died and lived instead of Aunt May. And basically the idea is Peter because it was Aunt May and it was like an old frail woman who was killed. Peter kills the burglar and then Ben goes to stop him and he is and to save Peter from a jail sentence he basically admits to killing the burglar instead.
Oh yeah. So Ben goes to jail and you get like a kind of like Barry Allen dad situation. You beat me to it I was gonna say yeah. And so Uncle Ben is in jail and Peter like is homeless and he just like runs away.
He lives off of like stealing from grocery stores at night and ultimately like I think ultimately he becomes Spider-Man but and Uncle Ben teaches him about great power and responsibility but like it's silly because Uncle Ben basically decides like we're gonna clean up the city and so Uncle Ben becomes like a microchip where Uncle Ben is driving in the battle van and he's like Peter there's like Mr. your attacking the city on 12th like come on. And so basically the idea is that like Peter deals with his responsibility immediately and because Uncle Ben is there to help him. So he's not as quippy or as funny and he's not as neurotic.
So like make real decisions about human beings would where he's like I can't be Spider-Man right now my wife needs to do something. So like he hooks up with Mary Jane and stuff like that like it's it's a whole thing but it basically is a happy ending. Well that's interesting. Yeah it's cute.
That's also another one where they dropped the watcher angle it was two nerds in a comic book store who were talking to each other and that's where the narration comes from. And then one of them says like what happens then he goes I don't know what do I look like the friggin washer? And you're like what the hell's happening here? What if you list he's actually mattered in the devil in the Civil War II says Heartless Fang good question.
We may never know Heartless Fang. Yeah we'll never know. Then it's gone. No one cares.
One interested in playing with Marvel cosmology enough to make you list he's either a joke or a key player. He literally went back to his home planet. Yeah. Grievousous got time to throw in a quick one before work only one I've read but it was pretty good.
What if Captain Marvel hadn't died? Oh yeah. Yeah. And I don't remember reading that one but I do remember like there's so many.
There's a hundred of them. Another idea they played with in Captain Marvel Carol's Infinity tie and she we basically get to see a universe where she got the cancer instead of the original Captain Marvel. Yeah. Yeah.
I'm sure that was depressing. It was but it was kind of uplifting too because you know he's like oh you know you were the best of us Carol you know you were such a hero you're willing to take the blast for me that gave me the cancer. Yeah. So cool.
What was it? Jam call X what if Super Scroll was good and Marvel was bad and Marvel was bad. Oh. I'm down for that.
That is kind of interesting. Again as we've said before on this show Scrolls get painted with a really crappy brush don't they? Yeah very much so. And it would be interesting to see like Super Scroll being treated basically like a Klingon kind of you know like I'm a warrior that's like four set of my homeworld and what am I going to do you know.
Tariff Delt like Avengers next generation movie I would still like to see more of them in the comics. Ben just use them in a big bad way and then you never saw. Well I'm building what if Uncle Ben became Captain America I love that idea. That'd be adorable.
That is such a great idea because you could play with the pathos of Spider-Man Peter Parker being like I can never live up to the legacy of my uncle. Exactly and you got him under two where it's like yeah that would be something where his metaphorical father figure is literally Captain America. Exactly. There were a bunch of that like basically every other what if was a Spider-Man book.
So you know what if what if Peter Parker is now I'm just remembering one what if he stayed as like a wrestler celebrity guy and never became a superhero. Yeah yeah that's a fun one. And J. J.
The Press and everything and like Daredevil got involved. Exactly. No that's a cool concept in general. What was it the one where it was what if Gwen Stacy had survived.
Mmm basically it flips the script and makes J. J. Jameson the big the big villain Norman and like Harry reconcile Peter and Gwen get married and then they revealed they give Jonah his information. So like Jonah shows up at the wedding and says oh I know you are Spider-Man you are under arrest and it is so Spider-Man it's quintessential.
It's really easy to make him a villain in stories isn't it. Yeah. Supermanning what if the next generation sounds dope what issue was it. It's just the last one from what if volume one I'll have to look it up.
I'll have to look it up. I'll try to find it while we're talking, but oh crap. There's a great one that has like a crappy foil cover and it was what if the Hulk killed Wolverine? Oh, yeah, yeah, I wasn't the other way around what if Wolverine killed the Hulk.
There's a couple of them, but that but the one I'm talking about is what if Hulk killed Wolverine, and it's just weird and it involves like stories that I just never friggin read. By the way, it was one of 114. What if Secret Wars 25 years later? That includes the next generation of heroes But yeah, like it was it was so weird and the art was like really like gross interesting I really dug it, but it was like bizarre.
There's also a whole like hot big industry of X-Men. What if they're like what if blank got the Phoenix Force? Oh, yeah, what if blank didn't die? What if blank got the Phoenix Force?
What if blank was revived to like yeah, no totally it's just What if blank led the blank? Yeah, what if Gambit was killed by Magneto or whatever? No, Marrow. Marrow kills Gambit in some friggin issue.
You're like Marrow Get out of here. What if Magneto took over America? Oh, um, there was one like the X-Men has Guardian War Like what if the X-Men decided to stay in Asgard and become gods? I'm like that'd be cool.
That sounds like a what if yeah Oh, there's one that I got from like a not a state sale But like a fan actually gave me their whole entire collection and it included one of these what if I always wanted What if Rogue possess the hammer of Thor? Oh, and it sucks. It's not it's not live up to it. Yeah, it's just not interesting It's like it's just a bunch of crap That's unfortunate.
I'm looking at the issue where Wolverine is killed by the Hulk by the way. It's what if number 50 and it involves like It involves the adversary in the eyes of nays the shaman, okay The uncanny X-Men number 225 which is a story that I did not read and it's just like bizarre Yeah, that was also the era where the Hulk if he was like hit if he was in the Sun He would turn back into banner right where wolf Because that that's how it works even though in the Immortal Hulk now he's seeming we does turn into the Hulk by night So maybe this one also came to pass. Yeah, and I'd be fine like I guess that's a neat concept you can play with for now Chat had a good one too. What if Wolverine never did one for more?
They should do like an X-Men adventure or adventures one where it's like what if morph didn't die Like what if beef was killed instead of morph because like you didn't do anything in the whole show because he went to jail instead Yeah, cool Let me just look at the sea with a tear of death. What if the cancer verse never happened? So like what if like Thanos and Nova didn't die or did not die or whatever cancer first didn't happen We then yeah, Nova would stick around but then we also wouldn't have gotten a lot of really cool cosmic stories. That's true DM 0 m 0 sequel episode where you pitch your own what if I agree.
I mean we kind of have been like over time It's it's tough like I would have to be Like I really need to like generate a couple of really sweet pitches I tried to write some pitches only to be like oh shit most of these have already happened That's a thing there's also it's funny like how many you mentioned a while back like about prominent creators working on books There was one book that had like up that was unprecedented like nowadays people like I want to do a thing I want to do a cool like what if story but Back in like I wanted to say the 80s like right after they killed a lecturer Frank Miller did his like electro died story. He was like I need to write and draw what if electro had survived Mmm, so like you basically get an alternate version of the book you read because Frank Miller did the book and you're like cool Yeah, and by the way, it's solid What's funny is like then he had to resurrect a lecture So like he had to kind of go back and undo the cooler idea and story, but you know whatever I guess Another one that stands out to me. That's one of my absolute favorites What if the Punisher became Captain America? Oh, which again?
They kind of did for a minute. They did oh no in civil war We picked up the mask. I'm like hey Basically just the idea being that like I think Steve gets like permanently injured in a horrible explosion or something Yeah And so they like Nick Fury and shield like go to the US government They're like asks ask Frank Castle. He's basically the best soldier we've got and he's like no And so they ask like John Jameson and Doc Samson and Yeah, and basically we just like watch them all lose and die Mmm, and then and then Frank's family is killed so he accepts the job I would be really interested nowadays with like you know everything we've seen with the super soldier Sam Especially the stuff from the movies.
Yeah, where it's like oh it brings out whatever is inside of you to put that in Frank Castle to be like Okay, what's really inside of you? Are you a murderous remorse less like a path or is there actually something worthwhile inside you right exactly by the way? The what if Punisher had become cap He is cap during the day and at night he is the Punisher I did pulls double duty and people are like and so people are like hey Frank. What the hell are you doing?
Like you have to stop being the Punisher you're freaking out He's like screw you like no and then they send Steve Rogers after him nice Steve Rogers puts on the captain America suit and like Kicks the shit of Frank. He's like you've got to be the you've got to be Captain America And he's like what you talking about man like you're Captain America and he like reveals that like most of him is cybernetics now Like to keep him alive right Captain America has to be flesh and blood Like I am not Captain America and said be my machine the man twisted evil So Frank decides to be Captain America like he chooses to do that and Steve becomes the captain in a weird brown suit. It's weird, but it's a fun story. It's great.
It's perfect It's quit essentially what if also the art isn't terrible. That's good. Tell you what if injustice happened in the Marvel universe I don't think they would be allowed to do that but you could definitely like that I'm shocked They haven't tried to pitch something like that in a video game or in a digital comic or something There's something kind of like that going on right now in Marvel 2-in-1 Yeah, yeah, I guess where it's Civil War and what if it didn't end and what if someone else decided to end it becomes road war Here is what you call so check that one out Tales my lens. He would have spider-man villain salmon was dream Funny, I think the legality of that one would be a little hard, but it would be fun to see the safari zone would have access never switched back that one Oh, that's a fun one.
That's a fun choice where villain stayed good and hero stayed bad exactly No, I like that idea at the very least like cut down cut to later and we have more heroic carnage Which I actually thought was a really fun little diversion there for a bit. Yeah, yeah I want a big disgusting statue of himself and everything all big golden statue with rhinestones a blag's free bird 24-7. Okay, Cleetus I love his red neckiness goes up and down depending on who's riding it. Yeah, like when he was invented It wasn't nearly it didn't exist at all.
Yeah, and then like over time like now let's do it. Let's do our own Let's make him more of stupid, but his name is cleetus though a guy like cleetus would talk like this you gotta have the stupid boys Branding I got you some new work shoes. I can't scuff up the top of the top of the dance and runway exactly see that's the cleetus Cassidy We need cleetus the slack jawed yokele carnage, right? Jim call ex what if a absorbing man lived and became the hero?
Oh man, I read Sam or what a spider-man became an X-man Yeah, but it's ex if it's mutants he's a mutant as it turns out sure come hang out at the school The one that I didn't get a chance to talk about was Mike were Ringo's last book Which was what if the new fantastic four basically stuck around? Mmm, and that was fun and then it was so much fun I was like let's do the sequel on the good bad nugly which the show we do on our channel here Which was what if the new fantastic for to where basically they the new fantastic for which is to say spider-man ghost writer Wolverine The Hulk but they trade out ghost writer because he didn't want to write about ghost writer I made a mire man because I'm a popular Basically what if they ended infinity gauntlet? Oh, I think it's really fun, but they hated it Check out that episode to find out more about that, but like yeah new fantastic for to but I did like the other new fantastic for one But yeah, oh they reminded me of another one which was what if warmest me and she had not destroyed the living laser oh This is okay So what if was a great entry-level book for a lot of people because I didn't even know who the hell some of these people were like Sure when I pick up that book I didn't know like I passing familiar with with war machine I know who the living laser was and the best part of what if war machine had to destroy or had not destroy the living laser It was a choose your own adventure book. Oh shit There were three different endings wicked and I and they were all really fun and satisfying and you got to do and you got to pick your own and Best of all written by Dan slots, so it's actually pretty good.
Oh wow really really solid that doesn't cool I mean basically what's it called? I was gonna say Secret Wars is just a whole bunch of what if series it really really was wasn't it yeah the 2015 one and apparently you know apropos the somebody asking about What if were there any way of that like became a thing many? There's one which was I think like what if Wolverine was Lord of Empires and that one it is the is dr. Strange inside the body of the Punisher in one of those secret wars books.
We sure did that was the overrunning thing What is that that he had his soul inside it exactly so you got that already Lee and Gibbons what if doom beat Richard at the end of secret wars again where the hell is that one I imagine things would get really boring after that and Mr. Obama one for you what if cleanest and Roy Hopper harper's cross I like your trucker cap I like your cut off dungareese. Let's go trucking and the whole story. Yeah, be sure to throw your beer bottles at street sands Yeah Yeah, there's the concept of of what if it's super fun and a little self-indulgent You know it's like I want to do this I want to do this and I don't want to deal with continuity So I'm just gonna like and I'm gonna take the glaringly huge leaps in logic to my concept But at the same time not bad you get simple things like the Punisher being venom Yes, that was another one that was a new brand her music so like that's cool to like another prominent creator I'm like I want to do this a lot of neat ideas.
We will have to do one though We just like come up with like dynamite pitches just like our top five pitch absolutely It's harder than I think I came up with a couple here I'm just like and I have no idea where I go from outside the pitch. Yeah Oh before we go I do want to remember the the what if no one was watching the watcher. There's a huge story in which God, I think it's eternity. I don't remember but basically for Galactus's crimes.
He is he is transforming a human and Stranded on earth, right? Okay, so that's a neat idea. You can actually do that story right like a body of a person It's Elvis. Oh And he lands in Graceland.
Oh And he is found by a huge Elvis fan like girl and so and his his galactist hunger never stops So he's just constantly eating cheeseburgers eating peanut butter banana fried sandwiches, and so the idea is that like He basically the Elvis returns right and then Adam Warlock shows up and he's like you a great wrong has been done to you And he like gives him his memories back and he's like you can choose to be the eating the devour of worlds Or you can stay here and be the king and then he does Of course he does because everyone else will be the king And then the watcher is like well, that's it for this episode of what if and while I am because like it ends with like with Galactus Elvis playing a song or doing a concert the watcher is at the concert and he's turning to the camera And he says like from now on I want to be known as the listener because he's How much was this issue when I blow on this issue? Yeah, really damn it. Yeah, I was gonna say if I bought that back in the day Yeah, I like there's one in the chat. It's not a super chat, but I won't but I just want to read it What if Joel and Matt stated combo cast man?
Things would be very different is what they would be for all involved for everybody. You might not be getting this show right now. Who knows? Yeah, no, also.
I might not even be podcasting anymore. I might have gone back to school and gotten a real job Yeah, well That being said I guess we should it's the other one the other ones you want to mention before we wrap up Again another one from the chat there so much southern Joel today. Yeah agreed flash pool that one of Joel was from the south Would probably be exactly like this just more silly voices. It'd be very similar Just you would own a truck.
Yeah, I say, you know, we're gonna talk about them. What if stories today, man? I sure do love them. I think this is amazing As it stands it's still pretty great.
I'll take Katie and Joel. I think see Yeah, we we I would do we I would never have gone to fan Expo certainly yeah, that would have been something as far as no one mentioned That would have Joel lived in Jersey. I imagine there'd be way more crossovers between comic book and k-jole. Oh, no doubt.
Oh, yeah, absolutely Yeah, he lived in Jersey. He would just move to here. I mean, uh, I'd be I'd be eating more pork roll and visiting more diners Very true and the terror of death is super tight which we will dress at the end of the show So I want to thank you all so much for hanging out with us and watching and we'll see you guys next time another episode I'll switch change. Thank you so much for Joel for joining me and we'll see you always a pleasure.
Good boy