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All right, let's get on with the show now. Waiting down upon the underworld to smash gangland comes a friend of the unfortunate enemy of criminal. In this area, our powerful character, a problem to the police, but a crusade of a law. Hello everyone, welcome to Comic Line, I'm Sal.
I'm Ethan. I'm Ben. And I'm sickening. I'm from a discussion show where we take a topic and then hash out for about 45 minutes or so.
Should Batman Kill? If that matter or should superheroes kill? I guess we'll do it by way of Batman. This is a lot of Batman stuff on the table.
So let's jump into it first. I think we should share our opinions and then we'll jump into the whys and hash it out. Do we? Cool.
To figure out the spot go. Ah, fundamentally no, Batman should not kill based on his origins, based on the moment in his lifetime that sparks him to desire to be Batman. You think he would not want to do that, but there's certainly are some times where I wish he would cross that line, especially being quote, quote, quote, the darker side of the DC universe. I say no.
Ethan. That all? Oh, get into it. Oh, I'm sorry.
I just realized. I would say not on purpose. Please. Okay.
If he accidentally kills someone in his mission, that's okay. But that's a difficult. We'll get into it. Okay.
Ben? Also no. All right. Okay.
In fact, I'm going to counteract Ethan's point where I say if someone dies, he should try and resuscitate them to bring them back and stabilize them. You're like, I'll kill. Sure. I would agree with that.
I would agree with that. So I think, I think no, and I think the idea is that like, like, somebody said his moral justification for not killing, it comes intrinsically with his character. Like, he was Batman was born from violence and from murder. And I think that his whole thing is, like, he's not a punisher.
Punisher's angle is he kills people. Batman's angle is, I scare the hell out of people. I beat the hell out of him. But I don't kill them.
And the question is, like, would that even work? Like, after a year of Batman operating Gotham, where he like beats someone savagely or where he like pushes a crook off a roof and then immediately rescues them, they'd be like, I don't think it's going to kill me. What do I have to fear? I don't know, maybe broken hands, fingers, neck, being in a life game.
Is that scary of them? Going to jail? That's scary. Yeah.
Unless you are connected. Pain is scary. Don't get me wrong. I'm scared of pain.
Yes. I'm like, what? I'm just a joker scared of pain. Nope.
No, I think he likes it. Yeah. Probably. Depends on the way.
It depends on the version. Is the penguin? Is the penguin? Is the penguin like pain?
No. He's scared of that crap. That's right. What about the penguin?
Well, if you want to say weird, malvic character, it's penance and penguin. I mean, when? You hear them. Thanks.
It's the hard cast. Right there. Penguin. So, yeah.
I mean, I think he's effective enough. It's just like, in extreme circumstances, that it's like, should Batman kill? I think we can all agree that Batman shouldn't kill everyone. Batman shouldn't kill like the Punisher kills people.
Right. Punisher is like, you're bad. Well the Punisher is not even a superhero. No, he's basically a villain.
But originally, Batman was a vigilante. Yes. And depending on Snare that he's in, he's often considered that still to this day. He's a vigilante crime fighter.
Unless you're standing there with Justice League, from which he becomes a superhero. But he's still the darker side in which he's meant to make choices and decisions that they also be yours may not normally make Yes, they don't have to make cuz they're super right Yeah, well, yeah I mean like in the situation in which like Batman has a contingency or presumably has a contingency for each superhero He's like a crazy right if you think they go crazy. Yeah, and it's like that's kind of creepy right like those the dark decisions So it's just interesting that the guy who makes these decisions doesn't take it to the next level. Yeah Yeah, so I don't know if that's a just a you know incredible like character building thing or could be perceived as a weakness I'm just going to get a little bit here sure sure you know where it's just like okay, you've got the Joker He's literally not going to change.
Yeah And like at one point to the desk that he caused become Yeah, right for not just killing him right. Well, why don't the police shoot him then right like if Back they don't usually even have a chance around him. Yeah, but like apply that to like you know Please do encounter why don't we just be okay with the police just shoot people like they think They're gonna commit a crime or anything did commit or have actually come in a thing You know live in a world of super villainy quite like him that is true you know like I Don't know how my viewpoint would be adjusted if there was literally a like crazy clown man running around New York It's the rest of the world. Yeah, I live right.
I live in the suburb I saw the city and I might have an issue with this. Yeah, the problem with this is that in a normal world that operates like our world Yeah, I would say no that I shouldn't kill you I wouldn't be terrifying. Well, yes, let me terrify him. Well, then he becomes a supervillain Well, you know in the real world and be like well Then he's breaking the law and does that and I mean he really breaks the law all the time But then he's becoming like just during executioner.
I was just like eating the law He's just filling in the gaps where the law is incapable of accomplishing the right It's causing a line where like the government would have to intervene because you can't just let someone take that into their own hands Right, however, because it's a comic book universe insane things happen like the Joker always escapes right in the real world That doesn't happen. Yeah, you don't have mass murders constantly get out where people just like why don't you just kill them? Because you know he's gonna get out like in the real world that logic doesn't work. Yeah No matter where we just kill that person.
No, he's a whole never escape get when they're caught in the real world I think away. You don't have to deal with it anymore or they're uncatable right even at that point if they kill the people like well Then we try them with the debt penalty right yeah, we use our laws and our laws will kill them If that's if they're a state where that is applicable. Yeah, so the comic books kind of like break the concept like yes If they have that lived in a world with a Joker had killed people like dozens of people multiple times It literally could not be contained. Of course.
He should kill him. There's no question he should kill him Right everybody should kill him. You should fucking kill him to save the lives that he will inevitably take if he survives There's a APB out to kill the Joker. Yeah, but doesn't the Joker because he is insane Hmm doesn't that give afford him some measure of what leniency leniency?
Not leniency, but like it's an extenuating circumstance like normally people don't do what the Joker does He must be insane also look at his face like no, it's not just bad. It's not just cosmetic. I'll look at the face to tell me It's not crazy. Right.
Yeah, I guess I'm like a clown and then I continually like Rob places But I can't be tried for robbery. I mean here's that's not how it works though. No, the Joker who's the insanity defense I don't think the Joker that would apply to I think a psychologist would say no the Joker's not crazy in a sense We're like he can't control that he's aware of what he's doing. Yes, he's he's like he's a psychopath Right, but he's not like he's not like unfit to stand try now.
He understands the the boundary between right and wrong Yes, that's the thing like he can conceptualize right. He chooses to do wrong. We've never seen the Joker make that choice We've only seen him commit ill we only know the Joker to be a murderer. We've never seen him ever wave the decision He knows you're not supposed to do those but he also just does those things because they're fun or they're funny Right.
He doesn't do things that aren't funny just because like well, I have to commit a crime Well, it's Tuesday. It's crime day. Oh, I know I forgot my crime box today I have to go to I have to do something with that's more insane than the Joker just committing these crimes Yeah, see insanity though get saved offense as kind of a tip He said it applies when you can't tell that what you're doing as well Right doesn't apply to someone who just enjoys killing people which we would say that's insane That isn't saying but that's still you could still be executed if that's true It's like it's using it says you have to like be hearing voices and stuff and not be able to like conceptualize reality Yeah, I think the Joker does not conceptualize reality. Do you think he's schizophrenic?
I think he hears voices I don't think he hears voice people. No, I don't think he hears voice I think it's more that the Joker's reality is different to him for sure else But he that he perceives it as like it's more like he is a psychopath in that he views himself above reality And he is above those choices Yeah, and he does make those choices to do commit there to commit great ills But it's also that he he doesn't know that he can't or they could choose not to Mm-hmm, and I think that's where it becomes right like we do know that somebody does that as insane Yeah, and so as such like because I'm looking at the way that we define insanity and how we could prosecute it You know like I can't just put him in jail like he's not he's not a common criminal nor is he a Also because in that situation he would obviously escape well We put aside the fact that Joe was also a master escape are they like a hairy you But like oh, it's not just escaping. He just convinced his people to help him. Yeah, usually I'm afraid of I can't believe people work for the Joker at all No, yeah, only for coercion can they do that because otherwise I'd be like no you can't kill me Okay, yeah those people are in there all crazy.
Yeah, yeah, I'll be like oh you're nuts What has said you lifting Gotham, right? All right, what you put yourself there? Yes, I'm in the comic book here I'm not like there is a Gotham and it's a guy that no it's a Gotham and there's Batman and there's Nightwing and Superman everything bombs in occasionally and they're super phones and they're they're running around doing a thing 9-5 you live your life there for the most part things are pretty okay I would be outraged that Batman doesn't kill it. I was gonna say what happens the day the Joker does something that kills someone you care That's the thing like no, I would be living that I would be living if I were stuck in that city and I were like impoverished and couldn't just leave We don't immediately do if I were living in Gotham City as a matter of cool The architecture is I would be out of there the reality is if I were in a comic book fictitious universe where the Batman were a thing And all the other crew trauma of the DC universe.
I'd be like no I would also be like I don't want I would still be me you know I don't want Batman to be given license to kill people the fact that he's already given him to like break into my house and break My wrist if he thinks that I have information he needs right so like I think that's terrifying like I think that most people would have a problem I thought about it too minutes, but but I would also be I would be outraged that like no one is gonna Joker like I would definitely not vote for Jim Gordon for anything Your culpable in allowing this like burglar who viciously attacks people okay prove it you comment man South Valley prove that Jim Gordon and Batman friends there's a sky there's a light in the sky that he turned on every You have a problem with the facilities at the Right, oh I say so public works issue It is common knowledge right in Gotham yes, they are in total absolutely there's who's happening No, I'd be out right like Gordon's I'd be like why can't you why you know doesn't eat Batman like Newark? Right why are you like every single like this Batman cause but could Batman be helpful in Newark or Camden? I don't know I think nightwing could yeah. Well, here's the thing like I think that more money in police would help Camden Ultimately like Camden is not like well Camden's Camden Right, right, but I was just asking just in general for each of you Yeah, if you were in the position of being a Gothamite if I were a kid I'd be mystified and excited by that man if I were to know the outraged I don't know how to be outraged by Batman I think if I lived in if I lived in Gotham yeah, I live in Gotham and I have to go to work there every day And like I it's not like he's new to the scene he's been around for a while I've seen what he's done I've seen the stuff that I don't care for I think I would be fine with Batman knowing that I don't serve the line on anything Yeah, that's the problem is that that's not the law or that justice That's like a fear.
How do you know that Batman won't cross that one? How do you know that Batman is like purely good and will never like I guess because I'm on TV But don't forget yeah, I also live in a world in which superman exists so I assume Batman crossed the line So many people are waiting to get back to the stop there. They do say they're friends. Yeah, they're super friends You know or it's just PR except that we also know that in that world like Batman has like I don't know that I don't know that I don't know that I don't know that I don't know that I don't know that I know that I know that I think that was a guy like as in particular in regard to just the Joker I would be annoyed at Batman for not having Or not having turn a blind eye because that's a reason like I'm not saying someone tells him to go hunt him down I'm not saying he comes out in the news and like says I'm gonna like put it into him fine.
Oh, you won't do it happens I'm like that's okay Batman. That's funny to them and he's like Like if I read an article and the Gotham Gazette the next morning I just said like Joker was gunned down by police or like Joker was beaten to death by a man of bat costume Right or a joke or pull him. It's to death on to street. Yeah, I would be like that sucks to be you Yeah, and then move on my day.
Yeah, but that and we're killing everybody. I hate that. Yeah, excuse me. We have a problem here Yeah, but that's why that's me as a good also as a good.
Yeah, but what if that stops it killing Joker means that Batman is no longer Batman if he's like I can't be Batman cuz I killed someone Is it worth the call if he went off his rocker because he brought that one? Yeah, well like I hope I would hope that's not true because I had like Blimsy that is like if I kill one person I will kill every person Well, it's not just that but I'd be like I live in Gotham. How many other bad family members do I know exist? Yeah, I'm probably aware of at least two.
Yeah, so I'm like he took care of the number one issue that I think that I would too Might not have been able to so he can retire. It's cool. Yeah. Yeah.
No, that is fine. They're super man. He'll just take it At least he killed the Joker. Yeah, yeah, at least he killed it before you laugh.
Thank you But I think as a comic book reader, it's a lot easier for us to look down upon this and like not down a cast moral judgment Yeah, or to expect our heroes to achieve a goal that may not make any sense in a real world scenario, right? Yeah, I like to imagine Batman I like to imagine Gotham as like my city, you know where like climb occurs maybe and There is someone who does something about it right not like I live in like the Demilitarized zone Like there's lawlessness and like people dying like left and right. Yeah, like Bigger crime that's a world. I don't live it if I lived in that world I would have a very different view of Batman, but I live in the real world So I don't want that many kill people even though the world he lives in is like that nightmare world Yeah, we think about it for a sec.
Yeah, yeah So that's that's where like it kind of comes apart in the comic world for me like that world is insane Yeah, the DC Comics world is a nightmare to live in and everyone that just acts like it's like normal right? It's weird. They have to make it relatable, but also like crazy Yeah, but as far as Batman quitting like yeah, he comes a joke around down you can go That's us. I've had everything the Joker's done.
I would agree. I'm down. Yeah, but like, you know, maybe give a little metal I'm either they're gonna wreck the statue in the middle of yeah, where you know, here's it Here's a high medical boy. What if Batman?
Kill the Joker, you know, it's a Joker. A whole lot of people and everyone's like, yes, thank you He broke into the Joker's house when we sleep anything. I tell them I was like, yes way to go He's like, okay now also really no women can walk the streets alone because that's not proper right? Right, but no Right, that's not Batman But like the fact that one man who's outside the law imposes a rule amongst the city right?
Yeah, like what's to stop him? No, I don't think he I don't think it poses any rule other than he could forget people That's a killing You're okay with him breaking the rule to kill people. No, that's breaking the rule kill people That's not imposing like a doctor in a title. I'm saying is we have opened a door Yes, where this person we've said can break the rules and be okay with it now.
He has new rules, right? Yes, it allows him to be able to send a precedent where I think that that president's a little different in particular The Joker is a known murderer and like the sheer volume of lives that he has cost Yeah outweighs that one action right in again in a scenario which I live in Gotham City Yes, what if Batman inspires less capable or moral? Yes, there's more people to do kind of similar things His responsibility his responsibility and his opinion to take care of supervillains and also his responsibility to That's what he dies Or he quits because he kill them. Yeah, or he quits because the damage You're like well in order and I would have those copycats would not be Batman So I think the cops can handle that.
They also have a backing of the GCPD. So they have to stop it or shoot it Yeah, but then how were the cops not stopping the super villains? Well, that's a bad thing Yeah If they can stop you want to set Batman well I'm trying to super villain. Well, I think they also can't stop the super villains because oftentimes the real desire powers or they have Access to technology that gives them an upper hand which requires someone like Batman to come in and mitigate Also in order to know what the super villains are after you need like heavy surveillance equipment and then you create a police state Which you already end because Batman is monitoring anyway, but so he's not gonna get to the police using it for himself It's just for us.
It's not really worth it. We're only okay with it because we know Batman from the page In the real world I wouldn't see his thought bubbles and I would have any reason to walk down the street in the real world In real Gotham and you saw a camera in the shape of a bat In a second and you were like who's where do those go? I have a real problem But at the same time you have a real problem that was Superman existing yes always here yes Yes, like then you could be anywhere and be like fart and you know super Hey, what do you the fart police now don't say baby? I wanna say babies I wanna shake you Man do I have a job for you then there's a moment in Batman no man's land we're Gordon takes along his own hands And he loses job as a result of it and but his job is to uphold the law but he did not uphold the law that's not Batman's job That's what everyone's job is to follow exactly why is he exempt because a lot of money in a cool costume He's a big lady this is this is a type of No, I'm not okay living in a world where Batman exists.
Yeah, I don't want vigilantes. What is someone? What a neighbor of mine? I mean go okay, you're coming in Gotham you don't live in Gotham because Gotham is a town.
Yeah, well you were born there Yeah, I can move out I live in a matter of what you live in a certain state And everything goes to go out here. Yeah, that said wait no no this is the thing that I want to bring up So like I live in a town where someone's a vigilante. Mm-hmm. So anyone can be a vigilante right now You're a vigilante what happens if I jaywalk and someone says no I'm gonna beat you what you broke the law exactly I'm okay with that crap.
Yeah, that's the same theme in Batman dark returns when like the mutants become the sons of Batman and they start like Clippin thieves fingers with like hedge clippers and stuff like and the batman's like you didn't do anything about it No, that was Frank Miller said anything like that. Well, but he's like but that's an old Batman I should have been working those ten years. I was retired Right, maybe I'm winded in his bad so like now it's so bad that it needs this kind of corrective measure in order to write itself I don't know if I agree with that in fact like no I don't but like that's what you're talking about and Batman in at least Frank Miller's opinion signed off of that He's like yeah, that's fine. Yeah, I'm not gonna stop him, which is like a little dream.
Yeah, like no, that's not cool It reminds me of thinking about being in that universe and like if I'm okay with that ultimately if I grew up in the DC I'm me and I'm in the DC universe. I'm a conflict character Yeah, I hear about Batman. I'm cool with Batman because Superman proves it Yeah, that's super man has his approval and I'm cool But if Batman murders the Joker on his way to the courthouse, I'm still okay with it would Superman still be okay with it? No, right?
He might be like hey, I'm gonna take you away. It's a super jail and then just put him in a way I'm gonna stop being bad enough okay, but then it's punished for what he did yeah Or at least he's like not really his friend is giving him a pass. Yeah, what's friends Superman? So I'm gonna get in one because you can't do anything about it No, because I grew superman because Superman is the moral best of us on cool.
I don't know he is Because you live in Gotham. Yeah, I wish I were in the drop I was like I did yeah, no if I really because I think in the DC universe They're superheroes are idealized and they are who they say they are like there's a museum for the flashes Yeah, worship the flashes not like God, but they do people worship Joseph Stalin. Yeah, yeah, yeah worship doesn't make you Like people do like they know that the flashes around the Outside the universe I'm like if I may be more inclined to feel the way those people in the mass deal will be Feel that superman like in the context of these universe comic book world. I'm definitely like no secrets cool.
He's a friend No, like he's the moral Compass of my universe. I don't worship him like Jesus or something But there are people I do I pray everything although I might like if I were being mugged go like I might be like hey You like to get the one I know that's not you your heartbeats different Well, you heard me come on Now you're lying Superman is never he's not my like moral beacon I want him to be a good person and I like when he is a good person right but to me nobody sets my moral standard That's fair like you hear you in Gotham. I'm anywhere. I'm everywhere Do you say your moral standard?
Yeah, you're not a hero then I want to do it like you have to do that You're not a one-time Because normally when you do the shit that man does you fucking die. Yeah people can't do it Yeah, sure the other thing is what if Batman isn't taking the copycat thing like what Batman kills the Joker and then as real is like cool And then he starts killing people first of all as real as a terrible costume. Oh, I know he does Yeah, I'm just saying right now the branding right there. It's not gonna be the 90s loved him.
Yes Well, we're not in the night We're gonna start start going retro into the night. Yeah, now the 90s is gonna be great. No We're gonna have big claw hands. It's gonna be crazy But yeah, like I think in the context of that comic book universe like it would be terrifying but like Batman's unprecedented for killing Joker now it's like it's open season It's harder to tell as real to explain to as real wise crazy right when the Batman's already killed someone Yeah, that conversation is like yeah, but you can't kill people We're not bad at kill someone I know But you're not doing it right like I don't understand like this is really complicated.
He's told people on people what the difference I think you're like except something else in this situation in the difference between being a concrete reader and being a person who lives in Gotham You unless Batman comes out right and says I killed the Joker you truly don't know what happened As a comic reader we do because we're there we're part of the other aspect right Kill them Nobody knows He would get this key to the city There's an internal investigation to figure out what happened he wasn't supposed to fire as well Yeah, well, we don't know that Batman killed someone so yes I was really like the question of someone else coming out and being like we're Batman killed someone we'd all be like But you really don't know that now you're a crazy person and I know you Well, I saw him do it because I work with him cuz I'm as real on his friend. I was there Did he though is that actually coming out now or is that like yeah? I mean in this case it's the heir apparent to Batman who's saying like no Batman killed him and that's why I'm killing these people right like Explain to me how it's different. Yeah, well they can do that at any time you know Batman didn't go someone died They could have a kill yeah, well this guy like has way tech right like he's very Notice I know to associate a bad one day like I want to kill people and I'm just gonna say the Batman kill somebody now I can do right.
Yeah, that's kind of the situation then Batman would come out say like no I didn't I did kill someone if he wouldn't say no I didn't he would just shut up or maybe he would say no I didn't So everybody up to fly or just say the idea be like no killing is not okay. It's important I would rather lie than yeah That's what he should do it did if Batman did not actually kill the Joker and after we were trading on the Apparently if he killed the Joker and then blamed it on Batman and then He's okay, but people and bad and we stop it. Yes And I would be what if Batman killed him and as you'll oh the bag was still stop him and he should have a great Exactly. Yeah, but he's been known to do that.
Are we okay with him being a no? I'm not but he is I live in Gotham if I'm yeah, I'm gonna be saved like my sister But you don't know anyway, he's a vigilante. Yes He's someone who breaks the law and sometimes I'm putting press conferences next to Aquaman And sometimes he like sings a song that ends the world and brings like six versions of himself from the dark multiverse And they're like turning the world inside out Yeah, so like it's like it's all but added But as a comic book reader. Yeah, yeah, I still like yes There are certainly times I wish that you could wait it because like in it no one I'm just like You could just stop it like it's just what yeah, yeah, but no I know and so like you know The fact that he doesn't is what I think makes him such a strong character Yeah, because like it proves that he is better than I right because like in that moment like I probably would I'm like no man if you know the Joker is going if you know that there's like a 99% chance with the Joker's Would you commit mass murder you don't shoot him in that end?
Yeah, right now. I'm available And he had done it in the past he just continued to happen numerous thousands of these escapes every single time. Yeah, yeah You're gonna deal with the trial. Yeah, but like the best lawyer ever will do it pro bono, right?
But to me that's like a boring world like and I don't like the way the Joker's been hit Even though I understand like you gotta keep using him because he's had to probably care But like the fact that that does keep happening makes the world like absurd Yes, like it's like that's not reality anymore and it's harder for me to like put myself in the world I'm like ask these questions. Yeah, it's like a fake cartoon. Yeah If it's a the Joker was treated like the Dread Pirate Roberts. It was always a new Joker right like you make a little more sense I know we've taken care of Jokers in the past, but a new one always crops up Yeah, it doesn't matter if you kill them.
No, that's like Batman beyond. Yeah, like the Joker's keep coming. Yeah, well They have a gang of Jokers. Yeah, they'll joke shows up anyway, right?
No, that's in the Batman that's not Batman, but what would be interesting is a big huge A picture story Batman goes into place an alter reality Batman. We're like those children. He's like no, they're like There's always a Joker. Yeah, it doesn't matter like it's matter.
You know, it's like Isis. I could kill the leader. It doesn't matter It's just another thing. It's a different clown.
Oh, yeah, I know there's like, you know I don't buy that because the Joker is very unique Oh, I know like another one was pop. I agree. Well, there's always copycats to like any kind of like horrible thing Yeah, and it depends on how you treat them like if you treat the Joker almost like a force of nature Yeah, like in the universe would need something to be That's terrifying way to think of that is when you kill the Joker. There's a power vacuum exactly So it's just like killing the mob boss.
Yeah another guy's gonna do it. No, you can do it. No, you can do it The punisher's world. We're just like I just keep killing Exactly, and the puns sucks.
Are you okay with that? That's a thing punisher has very few rogues because he kills them and then but they keep dropping up And that's actually but that's a more real book because you can't shoot crime in the face People will commit crime forever. Yeah, and like some people aren't afraid of one guy. You know is one guy I'm going to come over here, and I think he's over there.
I'm still with the crime. Yeah It's just at the end of the day like I think it just comes down to like desiring certain comic book characters to hold certain morals Yes, because like you look at the punisher and we're kind of okay with that. Yeah, you look at it I don't really think of this but like we watch the movie taken. Yes We're totally like a little people in the national law.
Yeah, that's not real right But now there is this you know doing it for someone he loves right is a moral justified. Yes, yes for him for him And he's fighting like the most like inexcusable thing. Yeah, so I think you know it just depends upon the origins of the character Right because like it's the same I think we should do another episode we talk about Spider-Man because there was a Huge argument about it after Max McArnich when that first came out and it's still being argued today That's like whether Spider-Man should have killed carnage at the end right and he was like never waivers But Batman I think Batman should never kill I like that he doesn't I've read stories where he kind of does like where he like accidentally does Or he like puts them in positions to die. He doesn't say yeah, and I'm more okay with that than I am of him just viciously Strangely people to death right but he's still not your moral compass.
That's Superman. Yes I'm cool with that right I don't think of it in those terms. It's more like if I were living in that universe That's how my that's how justify my love for Batman But in my actual I'm Batman as a comic book character I just like the fact I know that Batman has like this rigid sense of morality, and he's like I do this I do this and I'm not crazy like I know what I'm doing. No you dress up like a bat.
Yeah, you're a little crazy Oh, yeah, so does it just scare people exactly but you have to consider it in the world that he lives in right in the world He lives in this kind of thing. Yeah, like if he were just like Bruce Wayne badass So where's the ski mask like the penguin would be like low did all those creatures characters and so forth exist when he became Batman I know that I mean just his rose galler I mean just in general like there are other places and like that's the other thing like if you're just a mother and you're just like tearing up the city And Batman shows up you he has the edge. Yeah, because he's terrifying right But I was trying to say that they're being other heroes. Oh, yeah, she wear costume Right, right the president said yes, depending on time lines of course.
Yeah. Yeah, sometimes Batman's the first of yours on the Superman is right It's only really all depends but like they're all a problem for me. They're all problem if it's the real world right really there It's not a story I'm reading where again. I can see their thoughts.
Yeah, I know everything about that Well, there's no person like that right now But I think of your friends, but certainly not people you read about the paper. No idea. No idea No, but they're really like but it's a character and the person who needs a comic You know, I enjoy the fact that Batman was born of a singular violent action a very specific one Yeah, let him down this road to wanting to stop that and he does use violence in order to often stop it Yeah, he has a threshold like he has stared into the abyss. Yes a numerous occasion And also like he has it's not his rigidity towards his moral foundation and his adherence to it is Provisional has a couple of things that like he doesn't do He doesn't kill and he doesn't use guns.
Yeah, whatever he does it makes me upset when he's a gun unless it's one of those stories where it's like It's justifiable or use it in a way where it's like it's political or it's like or it's like a trifle Yes, yeah, but like when he does you know like when it's used fairly or you kill an alien or people I have a problem with him like I like the idea that he has like a kind of PTSD about like guns Like he's acting a holding a gun makes me just like yeah, I like that concept of Batman I don't want to see him like shake and get upset and like sweats when he sees a gun or one But I like him being like like we're better than those Like look at the keys the physical example of like yeah, I know you don't have like my billions of dollars But like everyone can hit the gym You don't need to like buy one of these deadly right weapons my parents killing people my father would have defeated the mugger But he had a gun right and that's not fair. Oh, it's like that's that's an interesting perspective I'm going what would your father have defeated the entire Nazi party? That's war with a lot of guns a clear war on crime. That's because all of crime doesn't matter I like Batman's moral code I think it's interesting and fun and it's really cool to see like writers play with those conventions And like I said like we've seen every version of Batman where he uses guns or not where he kills people or not and all of them are Valuable and have some kind of merit even if they don't jive with like the original intent for Batman or the popular theory of Batman or your personal Thing about what a Batman works or not Right the character works and it's fun to read and I would I enjoy it more as a reader because he has these provisions Yeah, because it creates interest and creates Legitimate, you know, well stakes and also just things he has to overcome like it's not just it's easy all that yeah Like it creates more interesting stories.
It's a lot easier if you could just shoot the joke or anyone or anybody like oh, no Was I Really Oh And there's still good stories to be had about that. Oh, you could tell you not from that character No, you can still even do the Batman story, but like you can't do an ongoing series of Batman We're like Batman with a new scene. No, it was not Even that like punisher like they have to Those books you run out of readers eventually. Yeah, it's like that and Punisher kills another guy Like you have to really do some interesting kills another drug dealer Right or another like over like that's why people point to like certain punters like the one where you have human trafficking is messed up And it's like that's like that's cool like take things from real life But it's also why things like they had that they had captain America go to Afghanistan and fight al-qaeda and that did not work Because that doesn't work.
Yeah, and it's interesting the line, but like you can tell the stories. I'm glad they try it at least see what we look like Yeah, but I like that Batman has to struggle. Yes. I like this a struggle with crime and also with himself Yeah, someone's all the opposed sanctions.
Yes, and it's it makes him a more interesting character Even though I would forgive him for killing the Joker in his universe I like that he would have trouble with it himself. I don't so much like the Frank Miller. Yeah, that's cool version Batman like I understand that sometimes circumstances force you into situations you don't want to be in and I like then that's fine But there should be some kind of internal you know wrestling Well, that moment is just totally okay with people. I'm like that's a little bit messed up in dark night returns When he's like I have to kill a joke and he likes any cracks his back, but he doesn't kill him and the jokers like you didn't have the balls to do it Yeah, like and but you know Batman like at least consciously was I'm gonna kill him right subconsciously wouldn't let himself Yeah, it's more than complacency in other people with the other people Right, well, it's like it's because I think often like manders itself is one of the more interesting Yeah, I mean it's really like most comments are a man versus man.
Yes. Yeah, well I mean like it's too so officially that members is the Joker that That's every book. Yeah, exactly when you add that other element and it's like there's always an additional story in there Yeah, it's on a con on a level. Yeah, what if you just try to crack his neck?
He's like I've never cracked neck before Because I'm kill right I still have killed What Comment down below should Batman kill or we convinced you otherwise