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Alright, let's get on with the show. Weeding down upon the underworld to smash gangland, come a friend of the unfortunate enemy of criminal. In mysterious, all powerful characters are problems to the police, but a crusade of a law. Hey everybody, and welcome to this spooktacular episode of the Elseworld Exchange rolling out with Week 2...
...before, I think? I guess, I haven't crunched the numbers. I'll take your word for it. I think we're good.
I think that the last episode actually will be on Wednesday, Halloween Day. Nice. From the Halloween rolling out of Elseworld Exchange. We don't even have a spooky name or an alternate title for the Elseworld Exchange.
I don't know what it would be. The Hellsworld Exchange. Hellsworld. I like that, although we might get demonetized because we use the word hell in the title.
That's true. Either way, welcome boys and ghouls or frighteners and fretnets. We're going to be talking about the devil in comics and ancillary comic related type properties. So raise your horns with dawty old sight.
That's right. We're doing it. We are... ...worshiping the devil.
Hide your parents. Put your D&D sets. Or take out your D&D first editions out from under your bed. And we'll get ready to pull out your motley crew tapes because we are going to be...
...worshiping... ...our the door meatloaf. Oh yeah, bado to hell. Back to hell.
All the hell centric owls. That's right. So we're going to be jumping into a little bit. This is fun to have because there are a lot of different variants on the devil.
So few of them are like the devil and it's so bizarre because like... Okay, so the idea of the devil. When we're talking about the devil, who we're talking about the Prince of Darkness, ...the Lord of hell and the Prince of Lies, Lucifer, aka... The fallen one.
The fallen one. The man downstairs, the dude who pushes us against our better nature or pushes us towards our true nature, if you will. But anyway, you fall on that biblically. I've always enjoyed that.
True. And so, you know, we're talking about like representations of the devil. When I talk about demons, sub-demons, lesser demons. That's all there.
That'd be a great topic. But, you know, the violator is a soldier in the devil's army. And for a long time, the expectation of understanding, particularly in like, let's take... ...let's say spawn, for example.
Malbolgia was the devil. I remember... That's what we always thought. That's what we thought.
For a good long time, I remember in multiple books, I remember Spawn is to insist. Like, there's only one. It's the devil. And he has a true name and it's Malbolgia.
I remember in Batman's Spawn, or Spawn Batman. He says, when you meet Satan, say hello for me. It's kind of a little joke, but it's all, you know, because if it's said, now, Bolgia, that would mean that Frank Miller read Spawn, which means, which of course he doesn't. But it's interesting that after a while, McFarland must have just gotten bored with that concept and was like, No!
Okay, so here's the deal. There's multiple hells. They all existed in power or something. And each ruler of that level is their own kind of specific devil.
Yeah. But there is a devil, a ruler of hell, and his name is Satan in the Spawn universe. But that didn't come to a way later. They wrecked on that shit.
That happened in, I think he debuts, I'm sure he debuts earlier, but I remember his full debut, or when he reveals himself to Spawn is an issue 100, which was my last Spawn issue of all time. But yeah, leading up to that point, Malbolgia, you know, he kind of exemplifies everything that you kind of... Okay, Spawn is emblematic of a fundamental misunderstanding of GDO-Christian mythology. It's just the most cursory, minimalistic understanding of images, themes, tropes, and ideas without having any roots in actual mythology and understanding.
It's like McFarland never went to Sunday school, but he had friends who did. He's like, yeah, yeah, tell me about that, Jesus stuff. Yeah, but what if it was awesome though? Exactly.
No, I have no doubt that. I mean, like, here's the thing. If you're into the metal, if you're into the occult, if you're into, you know, just all kinds of things that if you're 13, 14, you are way into. I know I was.
Then you're gonna, like, and here's the thing, every house, at least in my neck of the woods, had some form of a Bible in it. And if it didn't, they were super cheap or readily available. I never stayed at a hotel. Exactly.
So all you gotta do is just leave to the end, get over to that book of revelations from John and just dig in. You get all kinds of fun weirdo, bizarre, allegorical references to things that are literally happening at the time that the book was being written. But, and so as such, has no real true bearing on what's happening in the real world, but especially the contemporary world, but it has some fun cool visuals. But even then, those fun neat visuals are not present in things like Spawn.
Like, Spawn is just like, well, the hell, you do bad things, you go there. I think there's a devil involved. All the rest of them are gonna make up cool uniforms that are also within costumes. But yeah, now Bolshua kind of exemplified that, like, he's twisted.
He has a terrible sense of humor. He's cruel and mean-spirited. Larger than life sometimes. Yeah, larger than life can change his size depending, but usually portrays himself as being much larger, much, much larger.
But yeah, and I loved the actual, the turn when it went from Malbulsa Rules Hell to, Malbulsa is one of the rulers of hell. He's a cog in a machine. And he's not even really that good at it. No, no.
Like, nobody really likes him. He's like the most unpopular ruler in hell, but people put up with him, because he's the guy who's in charge of spawns. That's his pet project. Yeah, I make spawns.
You know, I usually try to intercept the coolest, most badass souls that come down. I used to grab him. I'm like, hey, you need something? I'll give you a living costume and a rat outfit and I'll send you out back.
Top side, have you shoot some cool green necroplyism and then it will immediately come back down here and I'll make fun of you for a thousand years. Like, it's just, I love that idea and that relation between Spawn and Malbulsa. This idea of him being like a very like real character, Malbulsa. Yeah.
But also being, I don't know, unattainable. Any time you saw him, he's always just laughing at like the misery that Spawn has, you know, has asked himself to go through. And there's plenty of that. Then you get your other masters of the other layers of hell.
Mammon was the other guy. Yes, Mammon, who is very much the devil's advocate type of devil, where he's not a monster. He's just an otherworldly man in a suit. Yes, it's true.
And that I think plays heavily into the idea. There's this, okay, so in actual scripture, there is Satan, but there's also a character named Hasatan. Hasatan is a kind of normal character who meets Jesus in the desert. And Temsom.
And Temsom, he's actually more of like a devil's advocate, if you will. He's the person, I believe he's the one who makes the deal, or not the deal, but he's the one who strikes the bargain with God in the story of Job. And Hasatan, I bet Job wouldn't love you if he took away all his shit. Right, Hasatan is more of like an arbitrator.
He's a kind of person who's like, yeah, but, you know, he's definitely not like the ruler of hell, but he definitely is, for me, he represents kind of like the mouth of Sauron a little bit, where it's like, you know, I don't, he can speak for himself, but like he doesn't need to, because I'm here and I will make the deals. And that's one of my favorite versions of the devil, the one where it's like, I give you the rope to hang yourself. You did this to yourself. Yeah, it's easy to make the devil red and Machiavellian and a jerk and just say, he's the reason why everyone does bad things.
But don't worry, because he exists in the Marvel universe and his name is Mephisto. Boy, is he? Mephisto is the most base obvious on the nose portrayal of the devil, while also simultaneously not being the devil, which they make a solid point of saying that. And yet they also make like pains to get you to be to just basically take for granted the fact that Melville's with the devil.
They refer to him as the devil. You know, anytime that they refer to the deal that Blaze strikes, they talk about the deal with the devil. It's only when you're dealing in cosmology and Marvel that you get into, like, no, that guy is not the devil. He just, he can be anything.
He chooses to be that, because he knows that it bothers people. Right, he's playing the part. He's playing a role. Exactly.
Before we transition fully into Melville, I just want to address a couple of super chatters in this robot. If Melville's the then, I am, okay. If Melville's the then, I am coming back as a spawn. I have no idea what you mean, man, but I will say, if we can interpret that statement and say if Melville's is real, then I'm coming back as a spawn.
I guess that's fair. Yeah, I mean, certainly who wouldn't take that deal, right? You get of rad costume, you can, you can have powers. I mean, like, you don't have to necessarily be as dumb as Al or maybe- Just hang on, hang out on churches.
Right? All you have to do is just hang out. Don't shoot your green necroplyes him. It'll be fine to go.
And comics and anime, Trygon best devil also is Raven using magic. Good question. Again, I was going to say, we're going to talk about my fist though. There's obviously in my mind the DC counterpart, Trygon.
Although, Trygon doesn't get up to near as much devilish shit. He doesn't his origin where it's like, oh, you know, I spread my seed through the multiverse He's not really a swindler. He's more of a destroyer of worlds type though. Yeah.
If it's funny comparing Mephisto to Trygon, because Mephisto would much rather not get his hands dirty. He's very just like, no, I'll let you do that. That's my impression of Mephisto at every time. Unless we're talking about like that crazy beak-faced, pointy nippled version.
He's always just like, no, he's just a big jerk clown from musical theater. And like, but Trygon is very much the opposite where like, he's much more like, I make like, if you bother me enough, you will awaken a sleeping giant and I will just wreck everything. I will mess your shit up. He's very much what Trygon is.
Does Raven wield magic? If you consider her origins to be magical, which I do. I mean, I think she learns magic, but I think she's extra good at it because of her half-domonic heritage. Oh, definitely.
But it's funny how we get these weird interpretations of the devil. Because like, you know, when it comes to Mephisto and Marvel, for example, he doesn't seem to rule or do anything. He's there. He does have dominion over certain demons, for example, he can bind them to your soul and make you look like a cool tattoo.
Although, but he doesn't seem, I don't see him in the day to day, the nitty gritty. I don't see him like actually executing. Because it's not even hell, really. I mean, like they go to hell.
But even then, like I remember in Garthonys' Ghost Rider book, when Johnny Blaze is in hell, he's in literal hell. And we do not see Mephisto. It is a different devil. But that's Garthonys.
He's just like, I have some things to say about the devil. And I point it out. But yeah, it's interesting how Mephisto wants to affect the visage of the devil, but also doesn't want to do any of the nitty gritty. Like, he certainly doesn't have the origins.
No. He just approximates the look. And then just goes like, yeah, and I'll play the part. But like, and he does a good job.
I think one of his best uses is actually in Infinity Gauntlet. We play like the advocate where he's just like the devil on the shoulder. Exactly. I like that use of that character.
Because he is kind of just like, he's just kind of a swindler at the end of the day. He's a flim flam man. Yeah, the best you could say. Yeah.
Now that being said, when it comes to Mephisto, he is basically like an elder god. He's like the grandmaster practically. He's an elder of the universe. But like what the crap is Trigon?
And how did he get to like that level? That level. How do people start to associate Trigon with the devil? Like it's the four eyes.
It's the horns. It's the deflouration of virgins and everything. I think it's because he's got a real pan thing going on, which obviously, you know, the devil, as we know it, goat legs, pointy horns, all that other stuff. That was like Puritans when they were trying to mess with all the druids and all the people who worship nature.
Like, oh, that guy's the devil. Even though he's not described like that in our book, but you're guys the devil. Right. Exactly.
Yeah. It's interesting. Particularly if you actually look at the scripture of the description of the devil, there's multiple devils even in the Bible. If you're talking about the RNSV version, of course.
But when they talk about like the one with the 10 horns and the seven heads. That's not really the devil. It's more like just a big crazy demon. But yeah, when it comes to Tragon, I guess like just he is the devil that you think of when you're either a kid reading the Bible or being told about the devil, or if you're not well-versed in Judeo-Christian mythology and so therefore, just kind of like make assumptions like, well, the devil's cool.
And he's got all these eyes and he can... He's metal at shit. Yeah. And like it's funny how if you're talking about deflouring virgins and like spreading his seed and becoming like an elemental for, that seems more like a Greek god than the devil to me.
Very much so. Sounds more like Zeus. That it does the devil. It's cool.
And he can change his form and do all that shit as well. Yeah. Yeah, you're right. Wow, Tragon does have more in common with like a Zeus or an Odin.
Right. Which I think is cool. And it allows you to then have him exist in the DC universe. Because the DC universe, oddly enough, and I don't say this very often, but seems to have had a good, uh, level-tiered structure of the devil.
Because there's multiple devils, whereas I can really not point to too many Marvel books where the devil shows up. It's true. I can absolutely point to a show and a vertigo series in which we see Lucifer the devil. Lucifer Morningstar, that's our guy.
Yes. And if you want to know more about him, definitely read Sandman, definitely read the Lucifer series. But like, Lucifer is an actual character and it's really like, and portrayed really interestingly. Yeah, that's a that's another subgenre of devil stories.
It's like, what if the devil, but what if he had his own own we? It's true. And it's interesting how they don't use him when it comes to like the DC universe too much. And it really could.
It really could and should. Because if I can see Lex Luthor talk to Neil Gaiman's death in a book, Pretty sweet. Really happened. I would want to see a reference like I would love to see Superman talk to Lucifer or Batman or any number of characters.
Swamp Thing. I mean, he's. I mean, think of the stories you could tell the final temptation of Superman. I will tempt you Superman in the desert.
That'd be dope. I mean, the fact is Constantine is interacting with him on a number of occasions. So it's that's he's he has interacted with the DC universe. Or at least give a reason as to why Lucifer doesn't give a shit about superheroes.
Right. Right. I love that idea. I would love to see Lucifer like wax as a really on superheroes.
That being said, there is also in addition to Lucifer and Trigon, there's also Naron. Yeah, the Dark Queen creation who never gets used that much anymore. No, the last time I saw him was in the I think it was like the Midnighter series and the Midnighter and Apollo mini. I don't remember which one, but like that's Brian.
He wasn't. He wasn't. I mean, we saw him. Yes, because what does Apollo died and Midnighter had to go save him in hell.
Yeah. And so Naron's the ruler of hell. That's a totally different character. I don't know if we even refer.
I don't even know if the if Naron tries to affect the title. I think he's more like, no, I just run it. This isn't this is my place. Yeah, if I do recall, yeah, that's what it was about.
Yeah, which by the way, like I think I think it was in. Sandman though, I don't recall offhand the sequence in which, well, you know, when I was spoilt Sandman for anybody. So like, let's just say that somebody else gets to take over hell and it's not Lucifer. And it's not Naron.
And I'd like to know where all that fits in and if so, how. But yeah, neat idea. It feels like someone should have written that. I know.
Totally. And I'm not saying that they haven't because I certainly would expect it. In addition to Lucifer, so you got Lucifer, Naron, Trigon, you also have another character that they don't use nearly as often as they use to in the 90s. And I'm talking about the female demon known as Blaze.
Oh, I totally forgot she existed. For me, I thought it was the devil. I thought she was like the Mephisto when I was like, just a kid and I had no idea about all the intricacies. But like, Blaze is just a sub-demon as it turns out.
It's just like she also has she has dominion over certain demons and she has a real problem with Superman. Yeah. But yeah, it's interesting that like apparently Blaze does, oh, is it she's also related to Sotanis, another character from the DC universe. He was also a demon character.
A Satan has Satan in their name. Yes. And I think she fought against Naron for control over hell. So basically what we're saying is if you like, you know, Satan slash the devil's more of an honorary title if you happen to run the place.
It's a job title. It's a job title. So there's a lot of different like demons and devils, even if we're not just talking about those sub-demons that are just like emissaries or weapons or tools used by those rulers. Bizarre.
And then you get into like weirder stuff where it's like well, where does Dormamu or Shira Gorath fall into that? Are they Eldridge horrors? Are they like Lovecraftian or are they actually Satan? I see.
I mean, Shima Gorath holy all of crafting horror creature. I mean, just look at them. Just by the the iconography of Shima Gorath alone, but also the fact that Shima Gorath has worshipers, the fact that Shima Goras doesn't seem to care about things, doesn't want to control stuff, just kind of like wants to destroy. That's very Lovecraftian.
Who's the other reference you make? Because I remember that was that was a good one. Dormamu. Dormamu is a great one because you know, in terms of the look, it's a fiery ruler of a dark dimension.
Yeah, that sounds pretty hell. Sounds like the devil to me, but straight up ain't and doesn't even try. Like never does Dormamu go like, you know, no, I am the devil. I'm the true devil, which we kind of need actually a Dormamu versus Mephisto story.
Oh, I read it. No, I'll have to have any write it and it'll be awesome. I mean, what is it? Johnny Blaze is King of Hell right now.
So that would be fun to have Dormamu. She'll be like, hey, I want this job. If anyone can take it, I can take you. Oh my god.
I mean, just just in the just in the just in the God, I just had a thought by the way. Well, I was reading the new Spiderman book, the character with the new character with the shroud and the bugs. Blue Centipede. Blue Centipede.
I bet it's Mephisto. That would be crazy. Although he's locked up right now in Vegas. Is that the end of that?
At the end of that Nick Spencer, Danny Kicks. Or he referenced him again. He's not he's not locked up. But then I was wet and kicked his ass.
Or did that change? I think he's out. Oh, interesting. Or the very least they could say like, because because we basically have established that he doesn't lose all of his powers and it's a Nick Spencer story and that he opened with Mary Jane and Spiderman getting back together.
I'm like, maybe Blue Centipede is Mephisto. I mean, I think that's almost too obvious for Spencer. I'd like it. I haven't seen any references to him.
Like, I've seen any chatter online about it. Interesting. I guess we'll see. I certainly like it.
Here's hope. Come on. You can't do Spiderman versus the Devil again. No.
And like, that would be a hell of an epic story because you know that Spencer must be gearing up towards an event. Oh, of course. But anyway, that's that's a side point. Getting jumping into the super chat before we move on.
Mopi, it's OK. DC has Lucifer. Yes. Mr.
Vadotro Trigon is just Raven's dad like Azazel. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Another guy who is on devil but not the devil.
Exactly. Doesn't count. Cam does Surfer the Surter fall within the spectrum of devils. That's interesting that you should ask that because Surter.
A Norse devil for sure. It's a Norse devil. From the realm of fire that isn't hell but is still a realm of fire. Exactly.
Like does Hades count as hell? I know that it basically is the Algor for hell but like is it the... I think when you're talking about Judeo-Christian myths, Surter is his own demon and rules his own dimension. And if that's the case, it's interesting how many places of eternal torment and fire there are in the Marvel Universe.
There really is. And then you get hell with one el which is the real land of the dead in Norse mythology but no actual devil. No, just hell. Just hella.
And sometimes boulder. And sometimes Angela. And sometimes Angela too has queen of el. Right.
So I won't remember that. Tony loved that series and I was just like I like when they use Angela. You paid good money for her. Do something with her.
Please. But yeah, I think Surter falls under the spectrum of devils. Yeah, absolutely. Because he rules the dimension.
I mean if you're Norse, you fear him. Yeah. And his daughter, the queen of sinners. Yes.
Will I end golden? I stopped watching Benny for this. Thank you. There you go.
I didn't know Benny was alive. There you go. Gabriel Torrebo. Who was Wolverine fighting when he went to hell?
That's a good question. Joel, do you remember this? He was a member of like those two. I think they said yeah he fought the devil.
That may be one of the only contemporary references to an actual the devil character. But then we ever see that guy again. No, no. Because I know that like yeah when they read Conness idea that every time that Wolverine like was damaged to the point of death, he actually dies and goes to hell and then has to fight against the I thought it was the angel of death.
But yeah, it might be the devil. He has to fight his way back to life. Just bizarre. Weird choice.
And St. Yeah. Who's the boss of Entrigan? Sometimes that trickens his own boss.
Sometimes he doesn't work for anyone. Yeah. And I was actually I was careful to try and avoid talking about Entrigan because Etrigan is a demon unto himself though he does fall under the purview of what we're talking about because he's he's from Arthurian lore which is of course deeply rooted in the Crusades and Christian myth. So yeah, it is shown that he does indeed live in hell though when he's not connected to Jason Blood.
There's a great secret six story where they all go to hell and Etrigan's there making fun of them. Yeah. Because he lives there. Right.
And that's a cool idea. Which leads me to believe in my so every time he's not fused with Jason Blood. Does he just live in hell? Does he get summoned to earth?
How the hell does that one? Yeah, I like to see Etrigan is kind of like a twisted Shazam. Yeah. I like it.
Yeah. That'd be cool. Hey, use that. And then what was it?
Steven Fartheary mentioned. I think Grant Morrison said that Dark Side is the devil in Batman RIP. I know that Dark Side is the devil of the new gods. Yeah.
In fact, his story is very much like that of the devil. Exactly. Which works for me if you want to get into like new Genesysian, new Genesian, Genesian, new Genesian mythology. Yeah.
And faith. Yeah. But as far as. Or your high father.
Yes, exactly. Something like yes, Dark Side does he should count as a devil and he is a demon. He is like he's a ruler of his own hellish. Apocalypse is effectively just hell.
Yeah, it is. And you can't access new Genesys or apocalypse without a boom tube. You can't like fly there directly unless you do when you're doing things like an end of the day. Doomsday hunter prey.
But let's pretend like that's not a whole mess of its own thing. But yeah, I'd say Dark Side counts. Although like it's not like whereas you know what actually I like that idea because he's very different. It's so much its own thing.
Even though it's rooted in the things we're talking about. Because like any of us don't need an Orion. Yeah, that's true. I was going to say because like there's no you don't normally see the devil like come to earth and fight everybody or punch Superman.
Yeah. But Dark Side does and I think that's cool. Like I like the idea of new Genesys and like mythology being more literal. Like you know there's a god he's over there.
Go say hi. He's a big guy. But don't bother him. Yeah, there's a devil and you can visit his hell and you can like work there and die.
Yeah, but you shouldn't. But like if you die where do you go then? Like is the idea that like it's kind of inverted where if you live on new Genesys you're basically in heaven and you die into life. I mean I'm sure Grand Wharton would say that because that's what happens.
Yeah. Because when everyone when they killed the new gods they all fell to earth and became people. Yeah. Huh.
So it's like an inversion of of uh. Judeo-Christian beliefs. Yeah. Of the afterlife.
That's a lot to chew on. Yeah. I don't think I'd like that. That's a little bit tough.
Your eternity is as long as you live which should be which should feel like an eternity. But then okay so then but if you become a human then you die. Yeah. Where do you go then?
And I'm sure you also get sick and hungry and all those other human things. Totally. But I'm just saying like when if your afterlife is a thing you did before then where do you go after your human because not all humans are from new Genesysys. So yeah.
And not all dogs go to heaven so. That's true. Even the bad ones somehow. Um.
I was just saying if you want to even look outside comics for a second to some comedy uh devils because that's a whole sub-genre into itself the funny devil. What about him from the Powerpuff Girls? They've had comic book tie. Very weird character.
Him. Uh I never understood that idea. I loved the Powerpuff Girls but like every time him showed up I'm like what the crap is happening? Is this weird lobster man reference to the blue meanie from yellow summer?
Yeah and I think and I know that he's supposed to be a vodka of the devil. I know that like you know it's why his name is him and why they refer to him with other you know adjectives and like. They're not speak his name. Yeah and they don't say.
And even though when they say when they should say he they say him anyway it's it's weird. He's a weird character and very intentionally so I think their thing is like let's make something that all children will find scary and otherworldly. Yeah it's just kind of like I'm shocked that the censors or at least that the people who were developing the show weren't like so the devil is a bad guy like oh no no no it's not the devil. Yeah.
He just looks like the devil um and dressed like a woman. Yeah weird. Just I and what's it called when when him gets mad. Yeah.
Like he comes even more devilish. Yeah shows off like it has like actual powers but you can also just punch him. That's also true. Heck when they did their days of future past episode they make a point of saying him is the last villain who survives all of it and actually takes the form of a true devil.
And I guess in that in that case then yes him is the devil in the powerful girls universe. Yeah that's true and has his own held dimension where he hangs out sometimes. That's true yeah. Yeah although it also like teams up with like the amoeba boys so clearly not all powerful.
No I mean no one said the devil was that great. No that's true. But still doing better than the red guy from Helen from Cowen chicken who is clearly supposed to be the devil. Yes very much the devil.
That's weird. Not all powerful though. No not even close. Bazaar.
What a non choice. It's like you have the devil in your kids show but what if they're just the butt of all the jokes. Right. What if they're totally what if we take out his teeth.
I guess it's cool. They're totally effectual. Gen called X saying I remember chaos war had all the rulers of hell each fight each fight the chaos king. Also if Johnny Blaze is the ruler of Mephisto's dimension could he send Dre back like Dr.
Dre. He could send all the dreys back if he wanted to seemingly. I think Dr. He's okay.
I mean I got to guess that there's checks and balances is in the afterlives that you just can't do that. Less you invoke the wrath of something greater than yourself. Yeah. Yeah.
But by that same token jam call my question is is Johnny Blaze the devil. He's taken the devil's throne. Yeah and he has a crown everything like I don't know. If you sit on the throne if you wear the crown does that not make you the devil.
Except that like we've already established that was not the devil. Right. So I know what the hell's happening. I guess kind of.
Talking to about it not a comedy devil but one from a kid show and something with a with a tie in and a Halloween connection. I tell people every year you got to watch over the garden wall if you haven't it's amazing. VBC animated mini series with what is it a guy from Lord of the Rings. The main guy.
Viggo Mortensen? No, no, no good. Good son. Eligible.
Eligible. Eligible. Okay. He voices the main guy and literally the villain in that series is a being called the beast who is just unashamedly the devil.
That's cool. And he walks the line of I'm the devil's advocate. I force you to do evil things. I whisper in your ear but also the I will mess you up devil at the same time.
Okay. Cool. He sounds like he's David but he's not Keith David. Oh that's too bad.
But guy sounds a lot like him though. And he sings. Ooh. The devil sings.
Kind of a beautiful. The devil at the very least plays the fiddle. Yes. And you can wager your soul at Crossroads.
That's right. By the way, I love I read this funny little fact about the devil in the Charlie Daniels bands, the devil down in Georgia. Apparently Charlie Daniels hated the use of its song in Guitar Hero. Oh, but that's the coolest moment where you have a guitar duel with the devil.
Yes. But he hates it because the devil can win. Right. Oh, and that undercuts the point of the song.
Yeah. And also even the devil in Guitar Hero 3 is not called the devil. He's called something else. Yeah, something else.
So maybe that's how they convinced him to let them have it. Like, oh, it's not the devil. It's one of those sub demons. You see, he should have just watched an episode.
You see, no, no, it's a cosmic being that approximates the devil. But our human mind seems like the devil. Right. And he's doing that just to be scary.
It's like a, it's like in Doom, where depending on which version of Doom you're playing, other aliens that like saw our minds and used our fears of the afterlife to approximate the look of demons, but they're not demons. They're aliens until Doom 2. And when he turns out, no, they really are demons though. And you go hell and fight them.
Like, which is awesome. And keep doing that throughout the series. Yeah. Kevin Little saying, Ettrick and did work for Lucifer and Sam and William one by the way.
Oh, that is right. Now that I remember the episode we did on Sandman, I remember him appearing in that book. So well, I guess so. So, Ettrick is definitely a demon, but not the devil, but also clearly works for Lucifer.
Yet rarely mentions Lucifer outside Sandman, if ever. No, he's out, you know. I'm free. Well, I'm not gonna talk about my boss when I'm doing this.
Exactly. Yeah. Like I'm not gonna talk about my boss on my honeymoon or when I'm on vacation or when I'm kicking it in just as dark. Another good devil.
I know you caught up on Venture Brothers recently, Killinger. Yeah. Henry Killinger. Is he a devil?
He's a devil's advocate certainly and they seek to imply what is it the, what is it the backers or whatever those guys, the evil vampire bankers, are either the devil's hive mind or interdimensional demons, but he also makes a lot of references Killinger himself that are vaguely biblical in Drowedeck that maybe they are what became the devil or what people in the Bible called the devil. That's cool. I like that idea. It's a good use of that character.
Even their names when he references his brother's names, they're all like Germanic names of the East winds and everything. So there's a lot of lore tied up in those guys. That's cool. But the devil that is Killinger ultimately advocates on the part of humanity saying mankind must be allowed to make their own choices brothers.
We were never allowed to make them for them. And that's why the bankers are more evil because they make the choices for people. Yes, they will they go against the nature of the world of how it should be. To be reminds us about Barbados from Dark Knight's Metal and All-Star Wars and Horse and Horse and Run.
No, Barbados is not the devil because Barbados is dumb. There's a lot of devilish stuff. He has a cult which I think more like Eldritch Abomination. I think more Cthulhu when I think of Barbados.
Yes, I think Barbados is an elder god and then he predates the devil. I think he's like, he's something else that is more elemental. He's like, he's more BC kind of kind of devil. He existed in the time before language in the time before words.
By the way, were you also as equally like cripplingly disappointed by what Barbados looked like in Dark Knight's Metal? That he was a big, bad owl thing. No, he was just a big, bad guy in a stupid robe. Yeah.
I was more disappointed that the Hawks beat him and not Batman after building him up as this ultimate hurdle in Batman's life. That book has a lot of this women going on in it. But I remember when they like, when they, when they, you see everybody and then one of them in the background like, whoa, and I'm like, well that can't be Barbados because that would be really lame. And that was like, yeah, I don't care for Barbados, but I also don't think he's the devil.
I think he's more like, like Joel said, like Lovecraftian. It can also true maybe why so much of Lovecraft stuff goes unexplained. And maybe that's why it's like, no, no, if you see him, you'll go crazy. Maybe they should have done that with Barbados.
You can't look directly at him. That would be really cool. That would be really cool. I'd love to be so evil.
I'd like to see that description sent to Capullo. Like, yeah, if you look at him, you go crazy. So enjoy drawing him. He's just a walking fever dream.
Right. Cam, I know this, he doesn't count, but I wanted to give you guys a reason to talk about the Devil Hulk. Because why not? Oh, yeah.
The Hulk became a devil Hulk one time. Really? Yeah, that was the thing that happened. Oh, yeah, he did.
Which also what Hulk is kind of doing now, he might also be fighting the devil or a demon or something from Beyond the Green Door, which might be hell, and gamma radiation can let you get into hell. That's a cool concept. Why not? Right?
You've done like literally everything with the Hulk. You might as well go, like, mythological with him. Because as we've seen, evil spirits are kept beyond the Green Door because Hulk has to fight his abusive father. Right.
Exactly. So there are damned souls on the other side of the Green Door. So it might as well be hell. Yeah, totally.
It's just another, it's another dark horrible place in the Marvel Universe that has a demonic ruler over. By the way, he's a demon. I mean, he's called Devil Hulk, but I don't think he's a ruler of anything. No, no.
Paul Blart. All caught. Taking a break from mall copying. Who worships the new gods in the universe?
Foragers people, the people who live below new Genesis on the planet, the new Genesis is on. Because new Genesis is a city, I think. Not a planet or the planet new Genesis and the city is also going to Genesis. It's both.
It's the planet, our city or me. Yeah. So like, there's a city above it, not so the new gods live, but there's also people who live below it and they worship the new gods. Even though like- That's not to bring that faith to Earth.
Oh, that's cool. It'll be the new celebrity religion, Tonkruzle, ditch Scientology, and start talking about High Father. Right? The art alien gods, it basically is Scientology.
Yeah, I mean the reality is why not worship Jack Kirby over who invented Scientology again? What's his name? Elrond Hubbard. Elrond Hubbard.
At least one created cool universe, and the other one's a hacky science fiction writer. Exactly. To which comic guys have been making fun of what is that Booster Gold had a little robot called Elrond for a bit? Yes, he did.
What was it? Mr. Roboto, Dark Side's a God, Dark God. When we went into Dark Side, I think he's more like he is the devil of the new Genesian mythology.
But you can also literally kill him. Uh, Nigga Pooper, Tom King is the devil because when I read Batman, I'm in Hell. You said it not us, but don't take... That's funny.
I mean, he does give us hope sometimes only to take it away, which feels very devilish. Yeah, the real world is real. He keeps teaming up with great artists. Brian Ford, the robot devil of Futurama.
Oh, there's another excellent comedy devil. I love that devil. Dan Castell, now the voice of the robot devil, so funny. The devil's hands are idle playthings is one of the best episodes of the show.
Again, actually shows him being a little bit more threatening there, a little bit more scheming. He does the fiddle thing. We see that in another episode. He's ticking all the boxes as far as devils go.
It's true. That's where our ridiculously circuitous scheme comes from, by the way. That episode, he says, ah, my ridiculously circuitous plan is on quarter complete, which is so funny. Also, I like when Bender argues about the definition of irony throughout the episode.
But anyway, yes, he's great. Mr. Abadu Blue Devil is the devil of Earth in DC Comics. No, Blue Devil is a silly character.
I know that there is a Blue Devil and there's a whole thing, but he's he's he's a devil. He's not the devil. Same with Hellboy, a devil. Hellboy, he's got devil at some point.
Right, he can earn that. Hellboy can become the devil. And I guess Blue, I mean, the reality is like, anybody takes over Hell can become the devil. So Eric Meyer, Constantine, the legend, continues, airs on CW Monday.
What is this? An ad? Yeah. The constantly, the legend continues, airs on CW Monday at night Eastern.
Got a lot of DC's animated stuff, had a fun meeting. Had fun meeting Sal in your Comic Con. Thanks for all the content. Hey, thanks.
Nice meeting you, Eric. Yeah, I've been doing an animated movie and also the new Legends of Tomorrow season is going to be heavily focused on Konstantin. Good. Sounds good to me.
Same. Twitch, I'm like, hey, are you bringing back his guardian angel from the Konstantin show? Are you going to be bringing back any of those things? Because I think you should.