Embracing White Culture

You're now listening to Vices and Vultures, a podcast on cultures. What's going on everybody? This is A2. What you're about to hear is part one of a three-part interview with Jonathan, a childhood friend.

Once you get to know about his background, which is what you'll first hear, you'll understand a lot more about why this episode is entitled Embracing White Culture. I just want to get right into it, bro. How did you go from, I knew you were always passionate about music, but I didn't know you sing, sing. Yeah, yeah.

When I started following, this is a brother we talked about. And I knew you played two and stuff. How did you transition from teaching to music? What was it from using to teaching?

I think it was, that's a good question. Actually, I have a better question. How do you transition? Because we grew up together growing up in the church environment that we did.

By way of that, we almost by default have to be in that type of setting. Naturally, because I got taught, and I was like, all right, so we want to be playing piano and then the singing and stuff comes and we have the youth days and all that stuff. So I want to take it back to then because I'm sure a lot of that goes into your passion and the teaching as well. So I remember being a kid, full of seeing him, seriously.

Seeing him as a kid, his vague memories have been very, very small. And I remember seeing him and imitating the same thing that he was doing on the piano when he used to play piano and I would do it on the piano and I would do it on the piano. The church. Just try.

Then fast forward, my mom and my dad said that some money got me a little small keyboard. I mean, it was bad, but I was back in the day. And I was going to fall too. So I had to play with one figure.

My dad taught me how to play the best he could. He didn't know how to play. He tried. He tried.

He tried. You know, like, that is the best harmonica. I was actually just talking about that. The same day I was at his house for the dinner.

That's his brain. You know, a lot of things I had is from you. I went down with my dad. He draws.

He plays harmonica. He's a praying spiritual man of God. All those great, great, great things. Right.

Obviously, give him up too. But like the art and the music, that's my dad right there. Come on. That's the strongest thing for my dad.

Have you been trying to do harm using all that? But anyway, so my dad was showing me how to play a little small keyboard. And from there, like, you know, just like, flers, start playing. Started doing one finger two fingers three fingers on both hands and then eventually evolved to like, all five fingers.

You know, like one thing that was, I wrote this to my colleagues I'd say, like, one thing I was for me when I was trying to get into the school I'm going to LACM was that like I've never been trained to like play or nothing or like learn how to do things. So I was really discouraged and like scared. I was like oh my god. People going to LACM, I'm assuming I probably pretty much talk.

Is that from music? Yeah, from music. Oh, Los Angeles College of Music. So I'm assuming that they're all taught and you know trained for at least five or something.

Boy, you going for a specific instrument. I'm going specifically for composing the visual media. Like film swarms, stuff like that. But you usually come into that well versed already a little bit.

You know what I'm saying? I'm not going to talk about shit on myself. Not because they're probably. But back then I was like really nervous.

So never been trained. The most trained I got was from playing in church. Playing in church all the time. You know, that was it really.

And then I got older, started listening to more types of music, still playing in church. Like I'm talking about middle school high school, still playing church at that point. By the time I talk middle school or so, I start playing the organ of the church. Yeah, and that's when Eve was playing the piano.

He was a great piano. And so we used to vibe, it's my play to drum, it's my play to drum, it's my dad. Yeah, we used to play a little bit here and there too. Oh my god.

Yeah, like a band. And then that helped me a lot. So I didn't know at the time but really focused on theory to really focus on corporate progressions and melodies and how they like on organ if you really like you know, when I listen to sometimes a fantasy play on the organ. He wasn't the best player now.

But when I was young, he was a god, you know what I'm saying. And so like him playing the melodies and how those notes. Like the harmonies. Oh my god it was just so amazing.

Because everything about the hymns is rooted in class. Everything even though you didn't have form education, that's what you. But yeah, it stuck with me. And so from there he was there.

Yo, you should listen to my most recently, this and Bob. And when he told me to listen to Bob, I actually checked him out on YouTube. like somebody played his piece. He's a graduation channel?

No, I didn't subscribe to this channel. I always tell you what YouTube was first. You know, I'm not going to do this. But it was like a colorful, I don't know what to call it, a technical channel.

It was like a colorful, it was like a screen of black screen and it had little dots of colors. All the visualizers went on. Right, when they planned. And so that's literally how I learned how to play about Takata Fyogon D minor.

From looking at that, listening to it and just playing about it. So for the most part, you learn how to play on your own? Yeah, like literally. You didn't have any like teachers or?

Never, ever. So prior to this current job, or not job of school, you guys have been to. That's the education right there. And listening to music and what if I like, that's what I would learn to play or whatever style.

So when did you, from the time that you said, okay, like I'm learning piano harm YouTube, like and you said this was like way back. YouTube is completely different piece now. So what happens in between you learning how to play piano harm from YouTube to you getting accepted? Because your Instagram is going a lot more in the direction of somebody who's taking music seriously.

So obviously there was a moment where you just be like, oh, I'm gonna take this more seriously. And it's like that's what we'll talk about like that time. Okay, so for starters, the YouTube was really more about like the block and the classical things. And then because I was always like interested in writing music myself, like from my own songs, whatever, you know, it was like a hobby type of thing.

That's really how I learned how to play music was like if I wanted to play a song, if I wanted to play the song in my mind, but it wasn't the key of C, that's all I learned when I was a kid, then I had to learn a different key. So I had to learn how to play the scale of that key. Just like from here and here. Does it sound right?

What does it sound right? So even like to this day, to this day, a lot of things not about music, but to this day my roots is still a lot of major minors, you know, like those type of. So very basic course, nothing, like. Yeah, and I find that because like in classical music, that's kind of what it is.

It's not so much of like, Jazzy, Corey, they have the seventh and the lessons. Oh my God. And that's great too. You know, I do that sometimes.

Well, all of that was rooted. It was rooted in classical music. Exactly. So when you say you were a teacher, like were you teaching music as well?

Oh God, no. That's what I was doing. That's what I was doing. Like how, like, are you still teaching first?

No, so I mean, this was my last year, yeah. Well, this was your last year. And you went away to teach for a while. Right, I went to Oklahoma for teach.

I went to the program teach for America when I graduated college. So I was in college, right? And my wife, my now wife, she's my girlfriend. Then I met her my first year towards the end of it.

And so through that process, I was going to school physical therapy, you know? Right. And like, because I knew you were doing some math. Right, right, right, your relations.

Yeah. You know what? So I was going to school physical therapy. And then my last year there, my college career is crazy too.

Like I almost went there. I was like, really bad at freshman year. Yeah, it was like, I had one for GPA. Damn.

So then I graduated like a three, five GPA. So I turned around pretty significantly. And that's all I was doing was summer's all time there. I went to terms.

So, but so the term I was crazy. What happened was I didn't make a decision. Am I going to actually go to school for therapy or my not? At this point, I already had a lot of anxiety and this is what's going on.

And typically, at this point, I became a very spiritual person. So that's when I realized like a lot of times when I'm having anxiety, that's when I'm not listening to whatever God is trying to tell me to listen to. Which means I need clarity, which means I need to fast. Which means I need to get back to understanding who he is and his vision for my life.

Now I can hear him clearly and move on with business. So basically, I had to like, plead with God, I'm praying. My wife was there. My girlfriend was there.

My wife now was there. I was praying with God. I was like, okay, we're not going to go to school for therapy. You're going to take your time to figure out what you're going to do.

So I still need a job. I'm going to get back to my business. I had to go ahead and I came out. I came out.

I'm saying I had to go ahead and figure out what I'm going to do. So literally that same week, my wife found like, Teach for America. Were you guys married at that point? No, no, no, I'm sorry.

Girlfriend then, right now. Yeah, we've almost made a year. I'll talk a little bit here. Thank you.

So Girlfriend then... I actually didn't get into that too. Oh yeah? Girlfriend then found Teach for America.

I signed up, applied for it, did all the process. So they flew me out to Oklahoma. Is that where their headquarters is? No.

Teach for America. Actually New York. So you spent a year there. I was that experience last time.

Two years there. All right. Where no Haitian... Oh, my God.

My mom just took it that way. They were like, I would stay up in that sleeve because I was in the rest of the season. Oh, my God. That's the worst.

The rest is like, I'm not even interested in this. Yeah. I'm sorry, I'm from New York. I just need some diversity.

And when I think I'm in the rest, I have to think of like... But I'm having a conversation with you when you first move and you mentioned that it was okay. We're like, maintaining and stuff. Here's why.

I was doing the train house in Oklahoma City. And then when I started teaching, I moved to Tulsa, Oklahoma, which is, I think, a much better place to live than Oklahoma City. Oklahoma City is known because of that time when that's a place to play. Right, and that's literally it.

So I lived in Oklahoma, and I was teaching, and the reason I said to you, I was really maintainable is because before that, when I was doing the train house, I had depression, anxiety, and all that crazy stuff. But when I moved to Tulsa, it felt more like a, like, like a Yonkers, actually, not like a city, but like a Yonkers. You have a little bit of a little bit of a bull. There was a little bit more diverse, still much, like, it's probably still 70, 30 types of shit.

But a little more diverse, and so I found a little nugget, a church that went to a transformation church. He's actually like, pastor. That's the only thing about Tulsa that I know. Yeah.

I wanted to get into that, but I wanted to show. I was a member there, and I was like, is it a 70-hour transformation? No, it's not the nomination church. He's actually pretty well-known now, actually.

Michael Todd has a huge five-point-point. Yeah. Some of the best sermons that have ever. Oh my God, his sermons, he's got to see that.

Like, we can, we can, we can. And I was part of the ministry team. It was great. It was great.

I love his ministry. I love him. I love him. I love the ministry.

When I went there, I was the Haitian in me, which is being afraid of root. I don't know. But I was able to approach new about things that I wouldn't address. And he was able to listen to me.

Well, he took it or not. He wasn't like a, you know? It's not just about pastors. But in general, when you get to a certain level of esteem, sometimes that shakis is your head.

He never let that get to his head, you know what I'm saying? Did you throw up with that idea that 70-hour Venice is it? Or, what I'm trying to say is, I was exactly, were you able to go to another church while? Because, I know parents, they are pretty tough on him.

Especially my dad. Oh, my dad is like that. Your dad is probably like that too. Like that is like that is probably like that too.

You see, they're like, okay, they don't want you to listen to anybody else that's not like a seven minute. I'm gonna put like this, I'm gonna get real in it and really like the Adventist culture can be, can be emphasis, upper of the word can be. So toxic that even from my family, it causes not to be as close to our relatives because my, it's only my family. That's the, that's Adventist.

All my other family brought back to the equivalent of Haitian Pentecostal and Catholic. You know what I'm saying? And so like to the point where like, you know, they will never say it, but I'm old enough now to realize like, we're not as close to my cousins and we're allowed to stay over most times and go to that churches, not feel like it was better, but they didn't want us to be indoctrinated. Cause when you a kid, a lot of things from other churches to nominations will entice you, will get you like, would make you want to do it.

Like before me, I'm a musician. I used to love going back to church. But, you know, Haitian Baptist church play a compa all the time. And we didn't play a school class.

It's class school. So like even though I love the class school, and I remember people used to get so mad when drums were young. Oh my God, even now, even now, but it's getting better. But even now, you know, you can't teach old dog nutrition.

It's funny because even with like, around the time that I started podcasting, like before this thing was even the thing, I guess the podcast called, I got on the podcast as a pastor's kid to specifically talk about ethnocentrism within the Adventist church, because it's a real thing. There's just this idea of, again, when you were talking about seven day Adventists, they have this idea and this understanding that, yes, like we have to believe what we believe because that's what you're supposed to do when you embrace a church culture, when you embrace a faith culture, what the problem in it comes when you want to, as you said, you're trying to stay away so far from being indoctrinated that you push away other family members, other people, people who will go to cultures, and then you find yourself in Oklahoma and you go to his non-denominational church. And then you meet this brother. He's a brother.

And I think that's one of the first things that you saw that you were just like, oh, I can relate to this. Oh, for sure, no, no more. You know what I'm saying? Yo, bro, you know, we all have our demons, and I think one of my demons that I still rest with today is like embracing white culture in my black space.

I'm still struggling with that because for me, first of all, being Haitian grown up and people know that I was Haitian, I had enough ridicule from black people as a word, let alone white people, you know what I'm saying? And then seeing all the things that historically speaking, white people have done to black people as a world, it kind of makes me like not like that as much. So I'm still struggling with dealing with the fact of like, like even to this day like this, white people have done really, really great things for me personally in my life. And so like it challenged my narrative to say like, okay, I can trust white person.

Like that's really something I have to do. Like growing up, white people have always done me wrong. Even like I one time I was hearing y'all because I come back from the YC right there every day. And the two white police officers claim it stopped me.

And I was like, yeah, so. And at that time, I was walking my Indian friend, which just we just split up right there and get it squared. And then these two white cops pulled up to me and I him. They let him go and it was pressing me asking me for my demons.

It was for this big guys, brother black dude that came from the gym like five minutes later, who saw me like his problem officers. They probably like scared my whole life. And that was my first time with the cops. He was like, you were 16, you were just walking home.

I was walking home from the gym. You know, the gym was like, take off. It happens a lot in Yonkers. I feel like every black male, you know, I had to run into with the police.

Like the same thing happened to me. I wasn't going to see my mom. And he was a river devil. I was in riverville.

And for me, it was even harder because that was like my first second year. Right. And they're like, yeah, something happened. And that's exactly their word.

You think the profile, you know, you hear those things. But when it's actually happening to you different experiences. And I think that's what I'm talking about. Since we're talking about not only like, just being pulled out here on the East Coast in New York, of all places, but in this, you know, for lack of a better term, gentrified area.

But also being in the Midwest, I went and drove to South Dakota the one time I went everywhere. For for for for. We're going back to. We're going back to.

And here's why. Literally the only reason why I drove up there for friends waiting. I was, you know, going to school in Nebraska at the time of seven days. And as I was driving up there, I get pulled over and I get pulled over because I don't have a front plate, which I understand like some states require you to have a front plate.

And it was true. I didn't. But what happened was this cop actually told me to get into his passenger seat. Oh, really?

Wait, pass it on to the story. I'm like, no, I'm not doing that. Yeah. So let me finish.

So I mean, I've never told you before before, bro. I've never told you a story. Well, here it is on record. So yeah, I did have a front plate and he comes.

First and foremost, he comes on my passenger side. And then he was just like, yo, I need you to come in the car. So I get in the car. And like now that you guys are telling me these stories, I'm thinking I'm just like, wow.

Because at the end of the day, he just gave me a warning. I'm sitting in this car. I'm sitting in this car. I'm sitting in this car.

And I'm thinking to myself, why am I here? This is just a front plate. I was in speeding. I mean, at the time, like, I saw the car, I had just put my phone down.

I was like, I thought that's what I was going to get pulled over. And I would have owned up to that. Because I'm a lot of bad things. But that wasn't what it was for.

You even mentioned that. Because I put it in, I saw him and I was like, okay, this is what it is. Sitting in there talking, he's asking me about me. He's like, where you headed in?

Where's my friend's wedding? Where you studying school? They're like, asking me all these questions. And I'm just like, I'm checking out their boxes.

And I'm going to fuck with you. And I'm going to fill it. Yeah, of course. And then I get done.

And I'm sitting here. I'm just like, and then he's just like, oh, here's a one. And whatever. Just because you put a front plate.

And I'm fine with that. I feel like he could have went to his car. Take care of all that and come back to me without asking me about this person's information. And then I was on my way and things like that.

And that happened. This is what happens when you wear minority and go to the Midwest home in places where they just have an experience. Any type of whatever. See that they want to react to you at all.

It's really bad. So again, this lady, she was a professor of mine. She's a great woman. I don't know if I could shout around.

I was really Bradley. And her husband, they were professors at the school that I went to at Connecticut. And when she found out I was moving to Oklahoma, she like, again, white lady, she didn't have to trust me with her home, but she did. So that, again, I think her for that.

Because again, she's helping me shape now my new narrative white people. She doesn't know that. She doesn't know that. She did that.

But that's how that helped me. She's my narrative white. But okay, there is a good person out there. There are people out there.

You know what I'm saying? I didn't think that. You know what I'm saying? I'm able to stay there, you know, lower price of rent.

Cause she was in a nice neighborhood. You know what I'm saying? And I was able to stay there for lower price of rent and everything. But like, then again, when I was there and I go running, six o'clock in the night, people were like, look at me.

It happens. Close the doors or literally be on their phones. And I was like, so I stopped running. And I'm saying, but that's what you're saying about the church and everything.

I gravitated towards this church because of the blackness in white space. I liked the blackness. Now it's more diverse, but just fine. But like, because I'm going in now.

So if it was like when I was a kid, I went there. I probably wouldn't like it as much. But now I'm okay with it. But yeah, back then it was predominantly black.

It was the music was there. Like in my music, I mean, like the worship environment was really, really strong. His preaching was really good. Like, you know, there's things that I don't have preaching and there's things that I do like preaching and he did all things that I did, like, I did.

So that was cool for me. It does men's just do you on all levels. And to answer your question about how can I change from, you know, Adventists to don't, like, how does that work? This is part one of a three part interview.

Jonathan's spiritual background plays a huge role in the musician he has today. So the next two episodes will have conversations all about this and you don't want to miss it. Thank you for taking the time to listen to this episode of Vices and Vultures and considering being a supporter of this project. Even leaving a review on your preferred podcast platform was a long way for us.

There's more information about this episode as well as who we are in the show notes. This includes all of our social media links so you can see us and not just hear us. Vices and Vultures is brought to you by aesthetic and is based in a great state of New York. Be sure to subscribe to this podcast for more episodes and tune in next time to Vices and Vultures.