Enter the Matrix

I'm going to put it on record. Is that what it is? No, I've been barbecuing all morning. Making some ribs.

Yeah, you said you were going to use a clicker on your wife. Oh, that. Yeah. Yeah, sounds bad now that I'm going to say it.

Why? I'm not really going to do it. Like Pavlovian training? Yeah.

You know, like he tests the dogs. Like basically like, oh, when you show a dog a picture of food. Yeah, like the fucking cat whisper. Yeah, and to the point where it's like, oh, this is not related to the food, but it still makes him drool.

Yeah. So you can basically train people the same way. Sure. So like, you know, every time she does something I enjoy, I click and give her a treat.

And to the point where if I click, should I do the good thing? Every time I hit my wife, I get a little turned on. It's an idea. I think that's what happens, actually.

It wouldn't surprise me. That's how horrible people are made. I'm kidding. What are you been arguing?

Ribs. Yeah, you sent me a picture. Was face-hugger a calzone a little too much? No, it makes sense that I could understand that.

Look like it, right? Yeah. How do you cook these? You only just fold them over.

You just fold them over. You keep all the arms and the inside. You tie all the legs together, right? Yeah.

And then when you bite into it, it attacks you. And when you get done eating, then you get birth. Yeah, exactly. No, but I'm doing some ribs with some ranch powder marinade.

Ooh, I'm a spider powder marinade. Dude, ranch powder is the best ingredient. Can we stop and talk about ranch powder for a second? Yeah, we totally can.

Hidden Valley Ranch. Everybody loves it. You love it. I love it.

It's white trash. It is. I love it. It's good.

It's good. Did you know, friends and listening public, that you can buy ranching a powder in like a can, like a Parmesan cheese can? Like, boop, boop, boop, boop. You can buy it in a cast powder.

Yeah, I put it on popcorn, man. That's what I do with it. Yeah. You're right.

You're right. You're right. The plants for today. Ranch popcorn.

Did you know, so you like butterscotch? Hell yeah. Arrowless butterscotch. Did you know they use castorium to improve the flavor of butterscotch?

I don't know what castorium is. It is a scent from the anal gland of a beaver. Oh, dude. Yeah, seriously.

I learned this last night. It's been a very drunk weekend. Well, it's something I retain. Yeah, yeah.

He sent me a text yesterday saying that, man, I'm so hungover I can hear this on. Yeah. I woke up in the morning and went to go lift my head and put it right back on pillows like, no, not happening. Yeah, I've been there.

And then so I was like, go to the beach or you lay in the sun thinking that's going to help you. And then like the sun is just like, we, we, we, we, we. Oh, this is a bad idea. I'm going to go walk outside.

I'm like, no. No. And then we went to a birthday party. And I was like, before we go, I'm just going to chug a beer.

It's going to have to make it feel better. Yeah, that works. Every time. Chug a beer.

Hey, the beer first. OK. Get to the party. I'm like still not feeling good.

They're like, hey, wrong. You want a vodka drink? Yeah, of course. Yeah.

And I was like, no, actually, you know, like bottle of crown right there. Take a crown and ginger. A big tall crown and ginger drink that down. Then someone was passing around a bottle of Jack Daniels.

Took a shot of that. Then I was feeling good again. Yeah. I got most days hangovers really weren't ever a big problem for me.

So we're usually at a crunchy's. We're definitely a problem. Like I get so hung over that you want to go get a spiral cut hand from a big ham and eat all of it. Yes.

Like pieces of it in the car before I get home because they, you know, it's all pretty sliced. Yeah. And you're just like, maybe it's a little bit. I think you mean it's pretty perfect.

Yeah, it is. Damn it. Is that a word? I don't know.

It needs to be. Pretty perfect. No, but yeah. So I was just all weekend.

I've been and I started drinking a day because I was working out in the yard and barbecue and I'm like, of course, I'm gonna have a beer for sure. It's been good weekend. Sidebar to this already sidebar. Oh, welcome to Dan Brett.

I'm Dan. I'm Brent. This is live forever. Yeah, forgot about that.

Sorry about that. Anyway, I was going to when I sent you that face over calzone text, I was going to put a question mark in there. I don't want to get your feelings on this. OK.

How do I feel about question marks? Yeah. How do you feel about question marks? I feel like they're aggressive, dude.

Like if somebody sends me an email and it can be about something completely normal at work, like, hey, did you get this done? Oh, you mean the question mark after? Yes. Because you didn't have to sign?

Because they, well, no, just. Oh, just at the end of the sentence. I mean, period. At the end of the sentence.

Damn it. I'm sure I'm sure I'm. It just seems aggressive. Like I wish there was a way.

I think I don't think correspondence was designed. You know what? You know how to make it less aggressive? Less aggressive?

Let me know. Put the outside out question mark at the beginning. What? Yeah, make it as manual.

Do you obla? Yeah, it is. But did you get that done today? Sounds a lot more aggressive.

Like, did you get that done today? Like, I feel like if somebody puts a question mark and they're like being a dick about it. That's exclamation. Did you get the shit done?

Or what? And it's really just a question mark. It seems too aggressive when I send it to other people. No, no, you're just.

Maybe I'm just weird? Yeah, you're confused and weird. I was saying about this yesterday. We can get rid of the word is.

Why? It's useless. Why? We don't need it.

Example? Like, anything with the word is, take the word is out. You still understand what the person's saying. It's no longer needed.

Weird. What is the reason? What's reason? What's reason?

No, that's wrong. That's different. No. What's reason?

That's asking me what reason. No, what's the reason? What's the reason? What is the reason?

It only sounds bad because you're not used to it yet. When I take over the world, listen, this is- You're saying that is is like a crutch we don't need anymore. It's like the frilly top of a curtain. No.

You don't need that shit. It's not functional. It's just window dressing, literally. I'm saying it's like when things evolve.

I feel like you appreciate that enough. I'm saying is is like the Neanderthal. It doesn't need to be around anymore. It's pretty good.

I feel like fucks pretty functional. Yeah, it's a very multiple use. Yeah, different cadence though. And different forms.

Is there a way to write cadence? Can you write something like, no, I mean to say this this way. There's not really a there. No, and that's why a lot of things get lost in translation, especially in text.

Have you heard there's someone on YouTube who basically takes songs, translates it to another language and then translates it back to English and sings it? No. It's hilarious. I gotta find that.

Yeah. So other than- Yeah, hurricane came through here. Oh yeah, the hurricane. Yeah.

We were actually gonna release a mini episode last week, but hurricane came through. Yeah. Yeah. You had a birthday.

I don't know what day it was. It's almost always Labor Day. It's September 2nd. But yeah.

And you know, just kind of caught up. I know that I set my Labor Day every year. I mean, it's true, but it also kind of screws up her birthday every year to be honest because everybody always wants to do something or people want to come in town or they want us to come visit. It's my birthday.

I didn't want to do what I want to do. Every single time. Yeah. So when I'm a huge dick about it and I'm like, no, it's during his birthday everybody's like really?

Yeah. That's it. Screws up her day because it's almost always on the Monday that we're off. Guy was friends with John Cole.

Yeah. Initial chasey birthday December 25th. No. Yeah.

So, yeah. I mean, screws you up there too. Like as a K-grown up, it's like, do you get double presents? No, you don't.

No. No. People forget my sister has her birthday is December 26th. Oh yeah.

Good luck. Man. I try. You have a sister?

Yeah. I have another sister. I have another sister. I have another sister.

Are you the youngest? I'm middle. Yeah. Yeah.

We're going to call him later. Oh, he's younger than you. Yeah. Why?

Because he's more successful than me. Yeah. Makes a lot of sense. A lot of things clicking now.

Yeah. Like outgoing, but also a sense of self-doubt. Yeah. So, what have you been into lately?

What have you been watching? We still haven't had a name for this segment, but I like, what you doing? What are you doing? What you doing?

Okay. What you doing? Let's back it down. Okay.

Got that. Okay. No, no. No.

Game-wise. Game-wise. I don't know if we talked about your silly space game last time. I can't remember.

I think I might have brought it up, but I wasn't into it as deep as I mean, literally taking hours that way. And I'm okay with it. There's so much inventory management. No.

There's so much everything management. There's a lot of everything management. Like, I feel like you could start a small business selling beads and probably be as pretty as well. Yeah.

Yeah. For sure. And then make money on it. Making space money, though.

It's totally different. I'm making memories, Dan. That's the important thing. So, I've started a total of five games.

Okay. Just five? I'm the king of starting games enough. Oh, that's me all day.

Like, yeah, I like the beginning part when it's new and fresh. When I'm feeling like, oh, because I'm getting all these achievements. Yeah, you get those easy achievements at the beginning and make you feel good about it. Yeah, it's been 12 hours I haven't gotten an achievement.

It's bullshit. Why do you play this game? No, but so the first three I've basically abandoned immediately because I was like, I don't know what I'm doing. I think I messed up.

And then one I was playing for a pretty long time. And then I was like, I messed up. Yeah. So I started again.

And we're just going to see how this one goes. And I think I'm just going to play this one through whether I haven't gotten a game over. Air quotes. Screen yet.

What do you mean? Because I haven't completely failed to the point where all my characters are dead. I guess I've been trying to kill them. It gets to the point where it's like, it's going to happen.

So just, just to clarify, it's hilarious. No, it is a 4X game. Okay. I don't know.

So a 4X game is like, oh, you already did. Yeah, this is what I'm talking about last night. So it's basically, you try to get resources to try to expand your area. It's interesting.

Try to take over. Damn it. So you're still obsessed with it. It's what you're saying.

Anything you've been watching? We just started watching Mine Hunter last night. Is that good? Everybody tells me it's good.

That's what everyone's telling us. So we started watching it. Yeah. See, everybody tells me lots of shit's good.

I hated Game Thrones. No, this has actually been pretty good. Did you really hate? Thrones?

Yeah, I watched first thing I was just not impressed. I was in for like the first three seasons and then they got me. They got me for the last five because I'm like, well, I just want to see where it goes. Oh, really?

So I just got to figure it out. Seasons three through seven, I'm like, fuck you. Because there was a writer's strike in there somewhere where they stopped following the books and George Martin wasn't involved anymore and not that he matters. But it was just garbage.

I get it. I'm with you. I don't think it was that great either. I just wasn't impressed.

I mean, it was good. It was like, okay. It's alright. It's alright.

Is that why you like it? It's weird. I did find a new show that I think is pretty fantastic. Well, not a new show.

It came out maybe two years ago. And this is why I love Slash Hate. My wife because she does this kind of shit. She'll like keep things to herself because she just wants them.

She wants them for herself. These are my experiences and I don't want you to have them unless I decide. So there's this great show I was on called The Night Manager with Tom Hillstone, Loki. And Hugh Laurie, the dude that was house from the then like he's the Night Manager of a hotel and there's all these like political descent.

And then they like enlist Tom Hillstone to be like this secret undercover like James Bond type night manager of a hotel. He like gets involved in all these like assassinations and shit. It's a great show. And I'm like, what the fuck didn't you bring this up sooner?

Because we're trying to find something to watch per use. Like, hey, what do you want to watch? I don't care. What do you want to watch?

I don't care. So usually the thing is I mean, my wife like wildly different things. Yeah. So it's hard to find something that we both into.

Really? Yeah. She likes crime stuff. She likes like anything like law and orderish.

Of course. We just got four right? We're a doctor. Huh?

The women are just into that. Yeah, I don't know. She's just into drama shows, man. I want to watch like something silly.

Like my bush. She would never watch my bush. No, see that's where you got to come to the middle man. You got to find stuff you both like.

You can't go way on the rim. Like I've forced Terry to watch Big Trouble in China several times. That's a good movie. She hates it.

What? Of course. I don't know. Like any reasonable person should.

I mean reasonable person should hate Big Trouble in China. No, it's a great movie. It's a classic. But people who like things that are awesome think it's their favorite movie.

I'll raise my hand in that group. But other than that, been playing control? Yeah. Great game.

I didn't think it got a lot of press. It happened. I didn't hear anything about it until I read a review about it. And it was kind of an iffy review.

Like it's pretty much you throw stuff and then you shoot stuff. Then you throw stuff and then you shoot stuff. Yeah. But then basically the same guy did that review like two weeks later was like I've been playing a lot more and it gets way better.

Yeah. It's a game by Remedy. And if that sounds familiar to any gamers out there, big favorite Alan Wake, which I think had a sequel as well, Alan Wake and most recently, Quantum Break, which I think was done by Microsoft Studios as well, wasn't as big of a release but also kind of like mind oriented mind powers. They try to make a show out of it too.

They try to really? Yeah. I hate it when they try to do that. Oh, we're going to make this like a multimedia idea where you're always going to play the game and then watch the game.

It's shitty every time. I was super excited because sci fi channel had one. Yeah. Defiance.

I remember. Dude, love that show was like hype. They're coming out with a game for it. Sweet games.

I'm not watching the show because the game sucked. Yeah. It reminded me of Quantum Break reminded me of Captain Power. You remember that show?

You're too young maybe. I remember Captain Planet. We could bring it up to my brother later and he will totally remember. Yeah, he'll remember there.

I've talked about this before. There's a toy where you had like a little spaceship and there was a show, which is funny because it was like the only parts that your little gun that you had as a toy that would go like baby, baby, every time you like scored a point, was actually like a very rapidly flashing like seizure inducing part of the screen. But even that was garbage. Like even as a kid, I'm like, oh, this is kind of bullshit.

But anyway, control, great developer remedy. It's a game about this chick that's trying to find her brother who just disappears at work one day. Isn't that crazy? Like he just gets a new job and he's like, yeah, I'm going to work.

And then he never comes back. So she goes to the building and they're like, welcome. You're the new director and it's like a neo type of situation. Like, everything's crazy.

Like reality is totally shifted and you start out with like nothing and then you have this gun that like your mind changes the shape of it. What? Yeah. It's pretty cool.

I mean, I think the way I'm doing this is like, you get to tell kinesis where you throw shit at people and you got this shield where you can like magneto stuff out of the ground. Like it's like put this little shield around you with black bullets and shit and then eventually you can throw that shield at other people. I think you say like you wouldn't have been surprised at the same people made super hot and made that game. Yeah, for sure.

Because it's real weird and like, but awesome, but awesome. Yeah, it's kind of creepy. A little meta where like, China seems real for a second. You're like, are they talking to me?

Did you ever see that? I mean, this might start getting into our topic, but did you ever see the movie? I completely forgot about this movie till just now. Existence.

Yeah, I've seen that. Yeah, yeah, I was actually going to bring that up for this episode. I completely forgot about it. It's so weird.

It's so weird. I think it got lost. I didn't ever see it back in the day. I didn't either.

Because I think it got lost in the just just the weirdness. Yeah, it's a Cronenberg movie. Yeah, it's Cronenberg movie, which is weird. Anyway, but that came out the same year as the Matrix.

And what was that other one that was very similar? It was like 13th floor or something like that? 13th floor. Yeah, actually 34 is actually pretty good.

Yeah, they're all pretty good. But yeah, existence is weird as shit. Like, yeah, like when people go, you know, Cronenberg, I'm like, who? And then you watch something like, got it.

Yeah, if you want some like super trippy like future tech kind of like bio engineering. Yeah, bio engineering. Kind of thing to watch. Definitely check out existence is Juleon.

I can't remember the chick that's in it. That one. Yeah, it is that one. I don't know.

I don't know. I don't know. We'll see the chicks from American Beauty, maybe? I don't know.

Anyway, this week, this week, we're talking about brain computer interfaces. We've been talking about bringing this up as a topic for a long time. We finally nailed down the technology to actually calling my brother, who's kind of an expert on the situation. I would definitely say he's an expert on the situation.

Yeah, I would too. I mean, is he only company? Well, he has a company called Neurotech, but I didn't know if that was like, I know he worked there. I didn't know if that was his company.

No, that is his company. That's pretty pretty awesome. That's his side company. What?

Yeah. Oh, yeah. Technically, yeah, yeah. Yeah, he owns a behavior therapy company.

That's right. I can't remember the name of it though. We're not going to bring that up. But anyway, so what we're talking about is and what kind of kicked it off is that it's about a month ago, Elon Musk announced Neuralink, which is his brain computer interface.

So that's kind of what we're talking about as a brain computer interface. And what that means is a device that allows. It allows a lot. Yeah, kind of a direct connection between a computer, a computer, and your brain.

That's the easiest way to. So basically, I mean, like today's uses, like right now, uses would be like the hearing aids that work off of what they call it. Ocular? No, that's just vision.

There's a story, nerves? No, there's hearing aids that actually. Yeah, the ones that are implanted behind your ear. Yeah, they're not.

They're like right on your cochlear. Cochlear implants. That's what they're looking for. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

That's the way I was looking for. Exactly. So that's kind of like the basic model. Yes.

And they're already being used in what would be the earliest form for everyone would be to help the disabled. Yes. So I think Stanford's got a project that's pretty successful in helping amputees as well as quadriplegics and. Because basically what they're going to be able to do is take what your brain is trying to send your legs that it can't receive because of a broken spine.

And then they have a, you know, like a retransmitter below the broken part saying, okay, now we're going to pump information back into your legs. Correct. So it's basically going to be able to repair any paralyzing element. Or take the place of.

It's more a place to use. Yes, it is. So I mean, if you think of it in terms of technology, we have electricity, which leads to the telephone. So with the telephone, we figured out how to transmit information over copper wire to each other.

Obviously we've got radio at that time as well. It's turn of the century. And you know, it's just evolved over time into, okay, well, these are electrical impulses that are being interpreted inputs and outputs. I mean, it's the same thing you're not dealing with every day in the alarm world.

I mean, everything we deal with is a set of inputs, a processor of some kind and then a group of outputs. Yeah. Like what I do when this input comes in, I go to this output and computers are the same way, like your personal computer and really our bodies are the same way. We've got a set of inputs, a central processing unit and a set of outputs.

I mean, of course your brain is doing all this behind a curtain. You don't see like when you go to your hand, you don't go, okay, input, this thought says I need to tighten this muscle at the same time, lift this muscle. Yeah, it'd be like the training screen in a fighting game where you'd like to see all the time. Like, I didn't actually press all those buttons.

Yeah, but you do it now or you don't pass this level. I can't do it. I did it 700 times. I did it right.

I hate those screens. But yeah, no, so we don't actually control every individual muscle or brain. Our brain says, oh, you want to lift your arm? Well, I know that's A, B and C.

I got to do all these. Right. Because that's what the processing is doing for the computer. It's like, oh, this is the input.

Okay. Well, in order to do that action, you're thinking, right, so what's been happening up until now and the most popular models like Stanford and there's also quite a few in Southern California. They're pretty successful is that there's three major parts of your brain, right? So I mean, there's the lizard brain.

You know, there's your motor functions, there's your limbic system, which is kind of like the emotion center and then your cortex. So that's that's your conscious brain. That's what separates us from the animals. Like this is what makes us human is the top brain, the frontal cortex in particular where creativity and intelligence lives.

So ours received or listen to one of our. If you was the five to death hours and that's why everybody should be scared. Anyway, so what they've used up until now is implaining electrodes into your brain cells. And basically the motor functions of your brain, you can in a sense have a degree of you know, machine assisted telekinesis really, if you want to think of it that way.

Yeah, I mean, technically that's I mean, it's not it's not it is wireless. I mean, that's what makes it telekinesis, right? It's the wireless capabilities. Right.

Eventually, I mean, some models, yes. So there's there's really like three big players, right? Okay, there's three big players in this emerging field. So why this has become really kind of cutting edge for technology is it's the next step in integration between humans and machines.

So we're at the VR step close. Yeah, VR AR, you know, I'm in reality virtual reality. I mean, this is the next step to where it's integrated, like it's not a big headset yet to wherever your head is literally tricking your brain into thinking you're seeing these images, like eventually that's what's going to get to eventually that's that's real scary. I didn't even think about that.

I have a whole lot about that stuff. You know, I mean, I go dark, but well, this all started back in what the 1970s is when DARPA first started correct there, BCI research, right? So I guess, I mean, I guess originally what they were doing is physically in planning stuff in a gray matter, gray matter. I mean, your brain, I mean, you're brain.

Obviously, that is not the best route. It's pretty invasive. Yeah. It's, you know, you're more likely to be prone to scar tissue in your brain.

Probably not good. I'm not a doctor, but brain scar tissue doesn't sound good. Yeah. So now they've been, you know, they're slowly building up to wireless ones, which you've seen, you know, people shave their heads and they got little sticky things on the brain, faces like an EKG kind of just reading electrical impulses on the brain, but wirelessly not jabbing into your skull.

But, and actually, what I was going to say about, there's, you know, really like three big players in this game right now, one of them being Brian Johnson, who is setting up a project called Colonel, which is based on research from DARPA. Okay. Yeah. So his project, there's also Elon Musk as well as the Android.

What's the name? Mark Zuckerberg. Yeah. Those are pretty much the biggest players in BCI technology right now.

They're all developing their own. Or less invasive. And we can ask my brother about what his thoughts are on this. I know he's got some ideas about, you know, whether invasive or non-invasive or, you know, what's possible.

I mean, it's even like a computer today. Plugging in on ethernet is going to give you a better connection. For sure. Why?

Why works? Right. Plugging is better. Correct.

So I don't know. I think Zuckerberg's is designed to be non-invasive. It's more like a, like a neural net that you like stick on your head. It looks more like something you'd see in movies where, you know, you put this contraption on your head to use it.

And was there a link from the cap type? Yeah. Not like a swimming cap. Neuralink from Elon Musk is both kind of, it's invasive, but it's using...

It's sub-normal. It's using lasers to poke holes in your skull and put it in. It sounds crazy. Yeah.

I mean, because it is. Yeah. Put this neural lace that's like insane, it's like microscopic over your head and into your skull. And then you've got like these little transmitters that go in like behind your ear.

So it'll be wireless. So super invasive, but you'd be able to have that permanently. But yeah, like once it's done, it's done. Right.

So you're like, I'm not going to upgrade your hardware. And they're like, sorry, all your tissues, we're just going to have to rip this out. And I think Brian Johnson's is supposedly not going to be invasive, but the one's... Yeah, that's what it is.

His is not invasive, but his upgrades are invasive. Isn't that weird? Like he's got these like... He's like the base model is super safe.

If you want to get the upgrade though, I'm not your drone. Yeah. Basically it's got like chips, I guess, that you can implant that improve different areas. Like basically like upgrading the RAM.

Like giving more capacity in different areas of the brain. Man. Yeah. Lot of crazy ideas.

I think that's part of the reason why we've... I mean, aside from the ability to directly talk to my brother because he's the only person I know that's actually an expert on the issue. That's kind of what's been kind of holding us back. It's really pretty complicated.

Well, yeah. We had originally talked about doing this. Yeah. And then all of a sudden, your brother wanted to go ahead and post something really cool on the internet.

We're reading the minds of dolphins. Oh, yeah. Oh, he didn't post it on the internet by the way. That was a private conversation.

No, he's cool. So yeah, which... I mean, I got to bring this movie up real quick. I know usually at the end we talk about it, but Johnny Mnonic.

Oh, Johnny Mnonic. Basically, that's what he's trying to do, right? Yeah, exactly. It's put it off and it's taking read his mind.

Kind of. Yeah. So really what kicked me off into wanting to do this episode, like for real, was about a month ago. And I've got the text to prove it because I know I sent it to you.

Will was like... Will's my brother if I haven't mentioned that already. Hey, I might want to watch the news. Elon Musk is going to announce something tomorrow.

And I'm like, what are you talking about? He's like to do with his BCI, his neural interface. I'm like, oh, really? So I sent that to Brent and I'm like, hey man, I know this is really not.

But Will says he's friends with one of Elon Musk's best friends. And I'm like, that seems far-fetched. Yeah. Okay.

Sure. Whatever. Man, I've learned with my brother to just accept it. Just like all the far-fetched shit that he says to me, I'm just like, okay, I have to just roll with it because otherwise he'll start to black it a little bit.

He'll be like, oh, well, you don't want to know about it? Okay, never mind. And then I miss out on this cool shit that he's working on. Hey, Dan, we found a dimension that only consists of Cogandie.

So turns out the very next morning Elon Musk announced Neuralink. And I'm like, okay, so maybe we should do an episode where we do a little call in with Will because clearly he knows what's going on in the industry. I mean, that's like a stock tip. It made me feel cool to know somebody.

Yeah, that has actually had some inside information on what's going on. Yeah, absolutely. So pretty cool. Well, before we get him in here real quick, let's kind of go over like the history.

Oh, yeah, I kind of cut you off and you're talking about the dark thing. Yeah, so 1970 DARPA starts their BCI research. Right. So this is like the very beginning of, can we read a brain?

Can we figure out what the brain's saying? Then we get to like the 90s when we first get the implants in the humans. Right. And the humans.

Like I'm not. Whoops. No. Pretty invasive implants.

I mean, these are the ones that they were in planning and gray matter. Trying to collect data, trying to make it work better. Obviously a lot of issues with scar tissue. So then we get like 2001.

So in the early 2000s is when DIY stuff started coming out. So at home. 2001 DIY stuff. Like at home, Dan, you in 2001 could build your own BCI for about 200, 400 bucks.

Oh, okay. So yeah, six channel capture board. I kind of talked to Will about this a little bit and I think we went over it briefly in our telekinesis episode where you can get, I mean, you can get an EKG machine. You can strap your brain with electrodes and monitor the activity.

It's not as accurate. And that's why there's all this question about invasive versus noninvasive, you know, the closer to the signal you are. The better, the clearer it is. The clearer it is.

Yeah. So I don't know if you've heard of a, I mean, I'm sure you've heard the company Mattel. Yeah. Make games, not video games, but boys.

Yeah. They actually came up with something in the 2000s called Mind Flax. I don't know if you remember that. Basically like on the covers, the kid with like a helmet on and he's like holding his finger to his head and making it all rise.

So it's generally Johnny's favorite EKG. Yeah. Supposedly that's what it was. It was basically like measured your brain power.

Yeah. Do you see? I've always wondered if that was legit or somebody was just like sweating into an electrode and that's what made it move. They were DIY guys who took that and basically used that machine to create something like, you know, it was a real basic.

Yeah. You know, it's like I think only one channel input, but. Oh, but they were able to use that. But that's based on polygraphs.

I bet that's based on polygraphs. Oh, I bet so too. I bet that's based on polygraphs. I don't know.