The people have spoken and Jeff Ross has returned for roast battle to the four night event features top media is getting verbally violent until just one is left standing featuring a star-studded lineup of judges including Snoop Dogg, Sarah Silverman and Jason Seabakis. This is a battle you don't want to miss the four night event begins January 26th at 10 9 Central on Comedy Central and don't miss the live finale on Sunday January 29th at 10 9 Central to see who gets crowned King or Queen of Cruelty. I need support staff to play the room. Stand up and walk now.
Hello and welcome to the watch. My name is Chris Ryan. I'm editor at the reader.com and joining me on the other line. This John is totally out of pocket.
It's Andy Greenwald. Hey, sorry Chris. I know we're good to go. Usually 2 p.m.
quick start time. Just kind of check my doomsday clock to make sure that it's in order. My intro to you is in reference to a protest sign that was seen outside of Philadelphia City Hall. So shout out to really I just assumed it was relevant every day.
I didn't say it about anything. Andy Greenwald, this is the Watch Re-Up. It's our Thursday show. We're going to be doing a couple things this week.
Who won the week? We'll be looking at the Oscar nominees. We will also do a brief letter from Tabu Island. I promise.
And then this is the mail back. So we'll be answering questions from our listeners. Thank you guys so much for responding to us at the WatchPod on Twitter. Greenwald, you're good?
How you feeling? I'm always good. I feel terrific. Andy has been in media blackout like two minutes before this started.
I was like, hey, man, should you look at the news? Whoops. Andy, let's go into who won the week. Yeah, okay.
This week. I continue to insist. This segment is really like, didn't we all lose this week until we decide something else? But this week was the Oscar nomination for us.
And I think we talked about the Golden Globes a few weeks ago. We were saying that unlike many years, it seemed like this year was pretty much a foregone conclusion in terms of the favorites. They didn't seem to be that much competition in the major categories. I still think that to be true, but you look down the list, I think that the Oscar's got it mostly right.
And to me, though, the thing that really stood out is not Lala Land having more nominations than what? Ben Hur? It's Titanic, I think. It's Titanic.
Two of the great films of our time, Lala Land and Titanic. Perfect for these times, Chris. But obviously, Damien Chazelle is going to win many weeks going forward. Lala Land is going to win Best Picture.
I have no question about that. So I kind of wanted to put the spotlight on a different film that actually, it surprised me. Chris, the film Arrival got eight nominations. And I was very surprised by this.
And I realized we had never actually talked about this film, which I know is one of your favorites. And I watched not on an airplane, but on a similar three-month-layer schedule. Yeah, Arrival sort of satisfied the smart sci-fi role of the Oscars this year, like Martian and Gravity did in the past. It's become almost an annual event where like a cerebral, but very entertaining, science fiction movie captures the imagination.
I didn't think Arrival had been doing that well, but it's being re-released in theaters now. And it's going to break 100 million, which is pretty good for a sort of already philosophical, largely intellectual, intellectually challenging emotional experience. I'm happy with it. I think that you would say, even before the nominations came out, that this was considered a hit or a win.
I feel like the studio was pleased with the money you got back on it. I mean, in today, this is maybe the Jumbo shrimp thing, it's a bit dandy with Frank Praise, but this is a non... It comes from, dare I say, a pre-existing IP. There is a relatively obscure story.
A story? Yeah. But this is not a franchise. This is not based on a comic book or a TV show.
This is not Star Children. It is in fact about the opposite in many ways. It stars adult actors and is beautifully, beautifully directed by Denis Villeneuve. And it worked.
I was very impressed. And I'm trying to parse my own reaction to it. We didn't talk about it. I really, really admired the movie.
I really loved parts of it. But I feel very kind of warm and fuzzy and protective towards it, maybe because it was so big-hearted in its ambition, if that makes sense. Yeah, we do so much diagnostic work on all these movies, and television shows, and stories, and we ask for such things. We want to be taken seriously.
We want to be our intelligence to be insulted. We want originality, and we want people to make brave choices and cast good actors. I think when a lot of those boxes get checked, it's easy to become very defensive about it, even if it does have some issues. I think we've talked about this before, maybe I talked about this with fantasy, but I've seen a rival twice, and the second time actually was a much better experience.
Because once you understand the mechanics of the plot without giving anything away, it takes on an entirely different feeling. You know, if you know what you're watching, there is elements of tragedy and elements of hopefulness in places that you didn't quite understand before. I just think that also it is unquestionably the most beautiful, beautifully directed, the most incredible, incredible, so much. Who is deservedly nominated.
And you just think about certain moments, you know, the moment when they fly upwards and sideways, you know, it's not a complicated idea, this idea of them going into the ship and their gravity and orientation being flipped around, but it's beautiful. It's very simple and very beautiful and kubericky. What did you think about the moment when Jeremy Renner gets up into the spaceship for the first time? He's just like, I love the open floor plan.
You guys are working with it. I wouldn't change a thing. I think I just want to go for sort of more of a Taos, New Mexico, and then I'll praise him. He's like, Costello, am I really feeling a mid-century modern aesthetic that you want here?
Now I know you want to share with Seven Legs, and that's a little bit tricky. But I think he could work with it. Look, it's an ambitious movie and it's a movie that succeeds in the difficult climate for ambitious movies. And I think that alone is pretty impressive.
I think, so basically, I think Tony Villeneuve won the week because this was his movie. He's nominated. I don't mean to write on his parade during his week. I don't think Arrival's going to win any awards.
I wish I wish did, but it's very nicely got nominated. And I think it's worth noting. I think people hopefully will use this moment to check out his other movies. Everyone knows we love Sicario.
But especially in this sort of inflection point in his career, he's got the new Blade Runner coming next year. And there were all these reports that he was going to do Dune next. And I find myself hoping he does not do that. But he's one of the top-furn Canadian women.
I was very sort of first, much as I love Sicario. I was glad that he's not making a second film. That's actually going to be directed by the guy who directed the Gamora series. And he's doing Blade Runner, I think, like Alex Mindblowing.
Dune is a very attractive story. It has been to other filmmakers before. David Lynch famously grappled with it. I hope that Villanuev continues to make his own kind of movies, his own original kind of movies.
And I think he can make pretty much anything he wants. He's really dazzling filmmaker. And just any other Oscar things? We're going to be talking about the Oscars a lot more as we get to it.
I mean, I was really psyched to the lobster, get a screenplay nomination. I was surprised an ad-benning was not nominated for 20th Century Women, a movie I did not love, but really admired and liked. Yeah. I just say, I was very, very happy that Michael Shannon got nominated.
That's an awesome performance in Nacht-Tortle animals. Can I just say that for some reason I remain on some press list and that day I got all these emails that was official statement Ruth Nega. It was just like, okay, and I clicked on it. And she was basically like, boy, this was a great day.
I am so honored. And it was official statement Michael Shannon. And I opened it up and it's all in bold. And essentially it was just like, fuck yeah.
I would follow Tom Ford anywhere. Yeah. Okay. So I was into that.
So Arrival, I didn't even win the week. Let's move on to our second segment year. And that is a letter from Taboo Island. Dear Andy, I know you haven't been watching Taboo.
That's okay. That's what I'm here for. I take quill to parchment to tell you some of the highlights from the last episode of Taboo, the third episode. We opened up this week, which is really exciting.
I always really appreciate any time anyone can have surgery performed on them while they are not under anesthetic. I feel like it's a real test of the man. Doug Stanford doing weight waking stitches on Tom Hardy while they have a conversation about the trade of tea from China, which I can't tell if it's a metaphor or not. I got to ask you something.
I don't mean to put you on the spot, but can you in any way on this podcast approximate the guttural noises that he was being made while he was being on the spot? Cardi does this like this shake with his hand when obviously Doug Stanford is like scraping bone. He does like to signify that he shakes his arm a lot. It's pretty intense.
As far as like what's going on behind the scenes and the palaces and the power, the guy who works for the king. I don't know if I talked about him last week's name is Coop. And he went and saw Jonathan Price over East India and pulled out like this little like it looks like he's pulling out the tin of dip, but he definitely just blows a bag right in front of Jonathan Bryce. Do you know if that was the thing the guy's used to do?
Did they used to snort tobacco or something like anybody who was into 19th century whatever. Let me know. I assume it was snuff. Snuff was the thing.
Okay. And they just would take a sniff of it. Yeah. I mean, they would snuff it right up there and they'd feel all the feelings, you know, and then they'd really want to listen to like rangersongs loudly.
They never want to leave this sitting room. I think it's pretty on the way. You want me to explain how snuff works? What is the product?
Is it coca leaf? Is it tobacco? What is the product? What are the pyrospisions of taboo?
Do you know how we can move through Newport News? It's not just tobacco. It is a tobacco product. Okay, great.
That is that is insufflated. You know, there's some other things going on. Delaney's dad had a wife. I don't know if I mentioned her.
She's acting in a Shakespeare play in London. Turns out she owns half of whatever Delaney owns, or at least according to the court. So, wait, wait, wait, your girl your girl owns half of Vancouver Island? She does.
She's gonna she's gonna open up a great artisanal hot dog stand. So she's becoming the play and because of that Delaney feels the need to protect her because there are so many shadowy agents after both of them. The big big big big highlights though come in the last 15 minutes man because that's when we get to the real taboo of what taboo is tabu-ing. And of course, that's Delaney and his sister who break conventional norms and are very close with one another.
And you'd think that that would be a taboo and it is. That's the thing. But Zilpha's husband, who's a chaplain, who plays character Zilpha, her husband goes and visits Delaney. And he's like, you know, I write insurance, I write insurance.
And he's like, cool, and he's like, go get an insurance. And Delaney's like, I'm good. And he's like, by the way, it turns me on that my wife slept with you. Huh.
Then he goes home and he gets mad at her because she's not pregnant. And then someone sets up, tries to set up Lorna and tries to kill her but Delaney stops them. So I don't have violence. That's a twist.
So he is the kind of the original cuck. Is that what you're saying? That's so. He also brings up for the first time since I think it was in-game forums, obviously, the subject of moon blood, which I was really excited about that that became a repeat thing.
Like, the way I describe it makes it sound maybe not, maybe it's not Andy's bag. I do actually think taboo is an excellent show. It's a rich text. You know, like, I feel like moon blood is not something off to disgust and prestige television.
It's about time, it's about time we like, you know, rip off the band seriously, especially into flowery prose while snorting tobacco. This sounds great, man. You know, I'm beginning to question really question my decision making. Really, really question it.
You'll catch up with it one day. You're just waiting for there to be a lot to watch it once, probably. That's your thing. Yeah.
Oh, you can't just have one little bit. It's like a Pringle. You know, I need all the taboos. Yeah.
So then I can really, really, really experience it. That's right. You're doing a service. You're doing a service.
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Me and Andy are now joined by our producer Zach Mack, who is going to be the voice of the people. Hello. What's up, man? Zach is going to read us questions.
Zach, I know that there were a couple of, there were some questions that like were repeatedly asked. So we wanted to knock those out first if we could, right? So these were questions that lots of you guys had for us. So Zach, hit us up.
Yeah. Yeah. So you guys got a lot of Philly love, right? There's a lot of people who were asking for food recommendations, bar recommendations, stories about your time in Philly.
Please just talk about and be for hours on end and review always sunny in Philadelphia. So I figure we'll come back and do that as like a bonus episode, like an all Philly bonus episode. Yeah. So that anybody from Northern New Jersey and above or Delaware and below and anywhere west or Paris, it could just not listen.
But we could do that. We could do a Trip Advisor episode. Could I just say that every episode we've ever done for the last five years is essentially a Philly episode. I don't feel like that's overstating it.
No, I know. But we should get more specific episodes. We should do, we could do like city-specific episodes. I have to say that one of the best things about this podcast is the fact that I get to do with Andy is that it does actually make me feel more connected to Philadelphia because we talk about it so much.
I haven't lived there in a long time, but I just, it's the best. Yeah, there was a lot of Philly fan engagement. I'll say that. That's great.
Okay. What else? The other thing, a lot of pleas for you guys to watch. Let me sneak it's series of unfortunate events on Netflix.
Okay. So figure you guys got to watch that and we'll come back to it. Greenwald, you go first. Hach.
I'm gonna say a hard no on that. Fire no. It's interesting. I'm gonna say hard.
No, like I'm the gig I'm currently doing other than the one I'm doing with you guys right now. I've been working with some younger folks, some of these millennials. This is a totemic and iconic piece of IP for them. They are psyched about this and that's wonderful for them.
But this is, Chris, this isn't us. This isn't our thing. Listen, we don't know from this. I don't feel qualified to talk about this.
This feels like, this feels like your shit if you are between the ages of 15 and 25. And I don't want to old man it. I don't want to come. I'll tell you what, I'm gonna give one a shot.
But I'm more or less entirely on Team Greenwald here. Just because I'm an old man and I didn't read these books. I didn't know that this was a thing. People will say these words to me and I'm just like, who?
Is there somebody behind me? I don't know what many SNCC it even is. And I'm sure it's real clever. But unless you told me there was a tense scene set at the Tijuana San Diego border crossing involved dogs and dudes with skultaches in the back of their necks.
If there's a scene in an episode where a dude keeps a handgun low in his lap in a Toyota Tercel and then clutches it and unclushes it nervously, I'll watch it. Just tell me if that scene happens a lot. Maybe season two. What's the next question, Zach?
What's up with the book, guys? This is a good question. Me and Andy actually did settle on a title that we both just recently read and we think it would be a cool one because it's actually a series. But Andy, correct me if I'm wrong here.
But I think that Zu station by David Downing, it's a series about a journalist living in Berlin right before World War II named John Russell. It has elements of Alan first and John LeCarré. Some of our favorite espionage and spirators. It is incredibly evocative.
The first book is awesome. It's a pretty easy read. It's just about life under creeping totalitarianism. And yeah, I mean, Andy introduced it to me.
It's fantastic. Yeah, so maybe so we've both read that. So maybe we'll give people a couple weeks you can get on your Kindle. It is a pretty it is a pretty fast read.
It's a very enjoyable read. Zu station, David Downing, we will talk about it in the month of February. Let's say that. Yeah, cool.
We'll circle back. You guys got to tell the Bransky story of people want to know. Oh, you Andy. I kind of like the mystery here, especially because Chris just admitted off air that he doesn't remember this at all.
Yes, literally. No memory where this came from. Like, I think it was probably a year into doing the show and there was an episode. I think there were a couple of these early on in our run when you would much like you do with taboo and equally outstanding show, you would try to like turn me around on the good wife because you were like you were deep in those Margulies streets.
Yeah. And you would and you were describing an episode that was particularly good and you were like and you know and Christine Baranski what a good job she does. She's always terrific. I was like, all right, Broadway, Danny Rose.
Like, of course, she does a great job. Just Christine Baranski. And at some point, there was also I think we were praising her her chunky jewelry moves. Yeah.
She always she basically wore like a hollowed out inside of crystals that used to be able to buy the sharper image like around her neck. So I was a fan of her aesthetic and I'm a fan of her doing good work. And it just felt like a thing to shout at the end of the past. There was also an iconic like Frank like just a candid shot of Christine Baranski.
I think like on the sixth dream that was like on the internet for a minute where it was like just look at her reading The Times and looking like a queen on the six and just being like, I'm going to work. So it's like she's a legend and patron saying of our pockets. And also if we're being really honest here, which I think we owe it to our listeners, it always felt to me that it was unfair that you got to yell something and I didn't. And I really, I'm not a fan.
I'm not a fan of the open face sandwich or the tartine. I feel like we need to have a nice bookend. So here we are. There you go.
All right. Now so getting to some of the other big questions, you got a lot of versions of this but I'll stick with Scott's besides Star Wars and Legion, what movies and TV shows are you most excited about in 2017? This is a great question, Scott. Yeah.
Chris, why don't you just talk about how excited you are for Legion? Look, I think you should just really just like open up a lane. My thing about X-Men is like, there's too many X-Men and X-Men. We gotta get them out.
No, I'm of course I'm excited for Legion, man. You kidding me? I'm just messing with you. I'm just messing with you.
I'm excited. But besides Star Wars and Legion, what movies and TV shows are we most excited for? Okay. So my first movie is going to be Alien Covenant, which I think is not on like Tabu Island in the sense that like I know that there were probably diminishing returns in this series and I know that I got very extremely hyped up for Prometheus but and it was not as good as I hoped.
Although it didn't wind up being very, very like I think it provoked a lot of thought but Alien Covenant the most recent installment in the Alien series is directed by Ridley Scott, returns Michael Fassbender, Katherine Watterson, Amy Symmets, who is somehow in an Alien movie that is awesome, Danny McBride, just like an incredible cast and I still haven't been in it. Franco is in it. Yeah, I just have like a lot of hopes for Alien Covenant. The first trailer looks like it's pretty much straight heart like it looks like a return to the more don't go down that hallway roots of the series in Alien.
I'm also actually pretty into the more surrounding Alien franchise and I'm very curious about how they're going to get it to connect to the larger story eventually. You love lore. You always love lore. I'm sorry.
I will see this movie. This is also got Damian Beshear and Billy Crudup and Carmen as yoga. This is just small time cast but I have to say I would love it if you could just right now in public guarantee that I can watch it under the same circumstances I watched Prometheus which was just just devastatingly hungover after a Grantland party in the third row with the Arklight with you and Sean Tennessee. I think I wore my sunglasses through the movie and it was not a 3D experience.
Dude, also I think it was 3D but were you grossed out by the last one because I think this next one is going to be even more intense. Was I grossed out about it? I thought it was a gross waste of interest all this time. Is that what you mean?
That was an intense movie but I enjoyed it. My favorite part of the movie was Bassbender playing basketball. Andy, what are the movies you have the names of? Here are four movies I'm psych for and I mentioned the lobster got nominated for an Oscar.
Your man, Dorgo's Lantimos' new movie is called The Killing of a Sacred Deer. It's a star's column, so obviously I've already been on Van Dango and bought a hundred tickets. Armando Iainucci who made Veeve in the thick of it has a new movie called The Death of Sallen. I guess in the hierarchy of cinematic deaths I would put Sacred Deer first, Sallen second.
You know how we've had this theory on this podcast about how the movie's short-term 12 is like the secret text that defines the decade of movie making. The dude who made that movie, Destin Kreton has finally made another movie and it's an adaptation of the book The Glass Castle and it also stars Brie Larson but also has Naomi Watson, Wiederleson. I think that dude is a filmmaker to watch and that's kind of exciting. And I would throw one other one on there.
What about Annihilation though? Alex Garland's Annihilation. I had to mention it because when we had Book Club mentioned we had sort of flirted with having Jeff Vandermeer's Southern Reach trilogy as our book club pick because we both read his book Annihilation and Annihilation is a super creepy fun interesting read and then I spent six months struggling together two books in the trilogy and I did not want to talk about it anymore after those other two books. This is going to be one of those things I think where the movie is going to be even better in the book.
Alex Garland's first movie since Ex Machina. We have Natalie Portman, Tessa Thompson trying to just just just just silk with Shower the stink of West World off of herself. Jennifer Jason Lee, Gene Rodriguez. It's great cast.
Come on. This is the movie. Last couple movies I'm really interested in Logan Lucky which is Steven Soderber's Return to Future Films. It's a NASCAR heist film starring Channing Tatum and Adam Driver and Daniel Craig who apparently bleached blonde and put like bleached blonde for this and I'm also really excited for Paul Thomas Anderson's yet to be titled maybe not even released in 17 but hopefully 1950 set in the fashion world of England starring Daniel Day-Lewis and I am also psyched for Molly's game which is Aaron Sorkin's movie with Jessica Chastain and Idris Elba about the underground poker world of Los Angeles.
Is that movie an adaptation of Aaron Sorkin's emails to Amy Pascal-Xoni about making that movie? You know what? You know what? You could probably do that and you would still make a cool movie.
I'm also really looking forward to Free Fire which has been released about movie with Free Larson. That's the following time. Yeah, really excited. TV shows that we were looking forward to.
We'll try to get through these kind of fast and go ahead. Well I already said my number one one one which is 20 coming May 21st. My birthday weekend the gift to me my favorite job all the time coming back. I'm psyched for the leftovers returning because the more I think about that second season the more kind of stays in my head and fucks with me and also the new trailer had a horse in it so you know how I feel about that.
The deuce is coming maybe you want to talk about that. Pete Holmes is comedy on HBO guys crashing which they've used next month so we'll talk about it soon. I'm really enjoying watching it. But also dude top of the lake too.
I know the show that definitely did not need a second season but it was my favorite show of 2013. I'm psyched. I'm really looking forward to godless which is Steven Sutterberg and Scott Frank's show set in a New Mexico mining town with Michelle Dachery and Jeff Daniels and Jack O'Connell and that sounds like basically like a deadwood redox. I'm really excited for that.
I think that my next thing like this is sort of nebulous but you know there are a lot of other shows I can't wait for the deuce. It's Times Square, C.D.N.s, George Pelicados and David Simon, all these great writers working on that Richard Price. But I would say that I am also excited for like Netflix show X or at least the experience of being surprised by something that comes out of nowhere that you didn't expect and is like did you know that the show was on and it's awesome. Whether and that happened a bunch of times last year so I'm really looking forward to the whatever surprises the PTV throws out as in so much as we just don't even know it's coming.
No it's a good pick. Thanks man. They were filming the deuce a block away from my Bushwick apartment. I met Black Thought, James Franco was milling about.
Yeah. Your story is exact. I love it. What's the next one?
All right so Secret Buckets wants to know any mention Westworld earlier. So Westworld was spoiled by the internet Reddit and your podcast. How do we follow shows without being too far? This is a pretty good question.
I mean I think that this is going to be the conundrum for the modern television watcher going forward. You basically can't really look at the internet and see the OA without knowing what happens in the OA. It goes across the board for a lot of different shows. I guess I would flip that for myself and say how do you watch television without the internet right now?
Is Westworld an experience if you don't have the theories? Is the OA interesting if you don't have people probing what X, Y, and Z about it means? How do you feel about this? Because you're kind of like taking a little bit of a step back from reading about stuff all day long.
Is it improving your appreciation of pop culture? Yeah. I mean if you want to use the OA example and people had warned me that something crazy was going to happen and actually being semi-spoiled about it probably made me more okay with it. Because when I finally got to episode 5 and the thing happened I was like oh is that all?
Because hearing the way people talk about it and we are guilty of it too. When you're commenting on something you're obviously going to amplify your thoughts or amplify your opinions even more just to have the conversation or make it make it more fun. It didn't bother me. I actually appreciated being able to watch the OA at my own pace and then just sort of find what I liked and just try to push past the parts.
But to me the question it's such a golden age not for television itself but for television watching right now. You have almost unlimited choices. There is a show for every taste for every mood for every moment for every night of the week certainly. And I just don't see how that's a bad thing.
You can choose to engage with the internet. You can choose to take a half step from the internet. You can choose to watch things along with people or watch them completely solitarily solitarily on your own. I think part of the question is almost more interesting from a creator perspective which is to say that there was creeping blockbusterism in TV where in order to get a show green letter to come through the clutter there was an emphasis placed on what's the twist?
What's the act out? What is the guys where are we of this pilot? Yeah. And it's funny that we're in a moment where this is us which is in many ways is the most mainstream hit the TV has manufactured in quite some time.
We're talking about the NBC family show. Even that was built around a jaw-dropping twist in the pilot. And so I think the further you go down that rabbit hole the further away you get from what people actually really like about TV as opposed to movies which is some feeling of consistency and warmth and engagement with the characters. So I feel like the best thing to think about going forward is to try to seek out as a viewer yes but also for people who are making shows to make a show that still remembers those things first.
I mean this sounds like very white-red pedestrian advice but like make the show about your characters and if crazy things happen to them that's great. If people get spoiled on them too bad the point is they'll keep watching regardless if they care about the things they should have been caring about in the first place and that's the test of Westworld fail. I was kind of thinking about this the other day with you remember who was the dude who did Lone Star in a week? Oh yeah Kyle Killen.
He was kind of like five years ahead of his time. Like if those shows had come on now I think they would have been much bigger deals because they both had sort of like kind of very intricate narrative premises within the shows but then you know we're just trying to be like a normal week to week show outs on top of it. By the way I think Kyle Killen was the first guest on the end of Green World podcast I believe. A nice guy and basically exactly right like Bad Luck and Bad Timing because he was dedicated to the idea of making cable-like shows in terms of their ambition in terms of their twists and trying to do them in a broadcast network box and it didn't work and I think if he was doing those things now on networks you might see networks willing to cater to the material rather than trying to cater to the format right.
You might see him you might see a week more explicitly promoted as an event series. And it's like a 10 episode thing rather than like how are we going to make this into what let's just worry about it later. It's worth noting that he now has retreated to cable where he probably should have been all along. I think he's making a show for AMC.
But it's an interesting moment because you know look at everyone's paying attention to this is us it's going to get nominated for I think an Emmy and as a chance to win an Emmy got a two season renewal. But if you look at NBC the rest of NBC is the continuing adventures of Dick Wolf making Money Off of Chicago. The Chicago's Public Works right. Like the least to talk about shows and just low key kind of the most successful shows and single-handedly save the network.
So people are still watching the same old TV and we're sort of having these debates over in the margins. What's the next one? Well on that note Bryce wants to know what is the most overrated show that tons of people watch and like but for reasons you don't quite understand. This is tough because I don't really feel like taking a pot shot at stuff that people like popular shows I think they're kind of self-evident while they're popular.
It's almost easier to be like this critical darling is actually not that good. But what's your answer for this? I'm curious whether you had the same rule here. You know I feel like you know obviously I think Westworld is overrated.
I think that House of Cards is wildly overrated or at least praise for the wrong things. I don't think House of Cards gets praise anymore though. That doesn't matter. Well that's interesting.
I think things sort of find their level. I mean I think I think some people still were trying to make the argument that the affair was really good. I would beg to differ. I think you had the man to really over right now.
Look I think the other thing about long-running shows find their level. You know it's very hard for something to be considered great and then sort of maintain everyone's saying it's great as more and more time comes. You know it's like it's like it's sports like when someone takes the course for the first time and does things people haven't seen and can score a lot and they're like oh I figured it out. I figured out your moves.
You know I know how to defend you. Yeah we get a little tape on the person. You get a little tape exactly. So I don't really have an answer because it's not like either of us are taking shots of like golden gooses you know it's not like we were like up breaking bad.
Yeah like I'm not gonna be like oh Kevin can wait sucks. It's like you know shout out to Big Bang Theory. I actually don't even know I mean like there was like a sort of task agreement on the cast and the producers and the audience that like let's just keep making this for the sake of making it. So the conversation about TV is really stratified.
Yeah. Like the people who the people who put NCIS you know 20 million people watch NCIS every week. I don't know any of them who are out there being like you know and it's far superior to the top of the way. It's just not a conversation that's even happening.
So what's next one's next? John Flynn wants to know what show would you bring back and continue if you were able to. I know Andy's answer to this. This is the most answer question by me.
I would bring back Terriers man. I love Terriers on effects you should watch on Netflix but I'll say now what I say every time. Things should end. It's okay.
I wish there was more Terriers but it's a pretty perfect season of TV that ends in a pretty appropriate place. So yeah it's also hard to even answer this question in a time when literally everything is coming back and so it doesn't really seem like a fantasy exercise anymore. Yeah I know. It's like I would if you ask me this question like you know I don't even remember when the reboot came out but you know there was tons of stuff from the 80s and early 90s that I think could be tweaked like V or even Miami Vice would be an interesting show.
There was a very little scene show on NBC that was on around the time that homicide life on the street that was on called Unsub which was a really freaky way out there. It was like a special FBI unit who had like a series of psychics and empaths or whatever who were trying to fool us. Unsub and it was just like really. Yeah it was very dark but I thought that would be successful.
The show that I would like to see come back even though we are not quite in the date line it needs to be to make sense of the title is Malayam which was the sort of it was on it was like it was an X-Files spinoff. It was an X-Files yeah it was yeah they did like a backdoor pilot within the X-Files for it. And it was basically about a guy who was sort of this like Lance Hauer someplace this legendary FBI investigator who specializes in apocalyptic cases people and movements that are trying to bring about or anticipate the end of the world and I just feel like that would make a lot of sense right now and I would love to see that come back. Can I I would too I would like to see come back not from Chris Carter and the X-Files team but you know maybe put like Brian Fuller or someone else on it and see what they can do with it.
Quick quick thing quick googling here Unsub was a television show at NBC. Chris this show ran for two months in early 1989. Wow I cannot believe you just reached into your bag of holding and pulled this out. It's start it's start David Sol and Emmett Walsh.
Yes Emmett Walsh she was the cop I remember yes Chris February 3rd to April 14th 1989 you were 11 years old. What the hell do you want to tell us the story of your infatuation with this episode? Well I used to have like a very like I would basically go to bed at like 10 I think and I used to but I used to like creep back out onto the landing that went downstairs you know for the stairs down to my parents living room and I would watch a little bit of the 10 p.m. show that they're watching other than they knew but that's where I would see like either LA Law or Miami Vice or any of the 10 o'clock shows around it and I must have just been like what the fuck is Unsub this dude is like communicating with dead people I don't know can I just say how creepy would it have been if your parents knew that there was a small presence lurking in the top of the steps watching television but didn't know it was their son.
More creepy as if one had never been a show called Unsub but I just made that up. All right Zach what do you guys do? Just this last thing last thing Zach the pilot of Unsub the name of the episode was my new nickname for Chris which is white bone demon. The next question right now like bone demon all right so so no wants to know if you could give one actor writer a director a blank check from HBO just to make whatever who would be my joke answer is Mark Scorsese.
Didn't they do that already? Yes they can't they cannot stop doing it. Boy this is a tough one that I should have prepared for. I mean honestly I would have said Pelisore and Dino but then he made the Unpope and made the world good again.
He kind of want to go in that in that direction right like there one of my go-tos for questions like this was always like to think in the indie world because there are people who's just point of view I kind of liked and and and always wanted to see more movies by them and they didn't make them any movies you know people like like like Jim Jaramish or Nicole Hollis Sr. who I still think I wish we make a TV show but honestly seeing things like the Unpope and starting to think about TV as a directorial medium in addition to just a writer's medium makes me think that it should go to someone who is more visually ambitious right I mean who who fits that bill that I was gonna say contemporary filmmakers um you know they don't have to be young I mean I said that David Lynch just made another 19 hour movie for Showtime. Yeah and if that's the case if David Lynch is gonna make a 19 hour movie then I would be interested in seeing like what Kelly Riker could make for HBO or what uh I mean HBO backing up the money truck you know like that's not even a thing anymore because like Amazon and Netflix literally are like one day away from like giving how hardly a 10 million dollar deal or something so I just think it's almost at this point like it's really up to the people who make content probably to go to them but I think my the thing that I would say the caveat is that I would want to see if I would want to see a project like this from someone who wanted to make a TV show and what I mean is that's good deal just want to get bankrupted to make a movie like another question that we got I don't know if you had it on your list as that but but our man Shimi Crumholz is the quality handle asked us um why is the Coen Brothers coming to TV not bigger news and my answer is they're not really coming to TV I think they're just making a movie and yeah they're making it two part Western that they're gonna show and you know what I'm all for it because I hope that I hope that all this stuff that is not and we're seeing it more and more and more and I you know it was funny we've been doing a lot of Oscar stuff over at the ringer so you're inevitably looking at different directors careers and like Catherine Piccolo and she's finally got something coming out this year I was like okay at Cassie Lemons who did talk to me back in 2007 and uh just like she hasn't really made that many films it's like I just like get these people like some TV deals so that they can just like get the kind of tell the stories that the movies are just increasingly like marginalizing yeah I agree like don't if people said like do you want to see a TV show from Paul Thomas Anderson or Wes Anderson I mean the answer is yes because you want to see anything guys like that make but they're they make movies they're masterful and they make movies and there's a reason they make movies and that's fine so let's let's see people who have something to say on TV you know I mean Amazon gave Woody Allen a TV show and Woody Allen just kind of made a you know he took like a be great thing and made a kind of longer movie yeah you know which is fine but let's let's let TV TV before we get you know it's I don't want to fall into this version of the world where everyone movie stars would just like appear in an HBO movie yeah it turns into basically the MLS Hollywood it's where like the older or the you know I guess I guess so it's an excellent so Beth Cochran says girls are taking over the world which which female characters and one the year in 2006 for you guys I mean I was very very first of all 2016 great year for women in power great great year if there's one thing I agree with him on his women have definitely taken over the world and we're done it's a wrap I was very obviously we've talked a lot about it was a blow away by Amy Adams this year that she was into my favorite movies nocturnal animals in arrival what about you any I mean I feel like Presley and I both just looking up at the wall that we made just a few weeks ago but I'm right on the spot with a question like this I'm gonna say TV while her bridge you may flee back nice I just I continue to think that that's one of the most impressive TV shows of the year and I think that her writing plus her acting and just her whole conception of it was just really bracing really jarring really funny really unsettling and really exciting you know that that TV will finally be getting to give performers and towns like her the keys so they can do what they want with the sword star you want to do some for individually so let's ask I'm gonna trade off asking you guys individual questions so first this one's for you Andy Alex Peters wants to know did you write the amygdala line in the Legion trailer because it sounds like no no but that's a big compliment no I mean look I was very upfront about this when I talked about the thing you know I worked on the show I contributed to the show I did not write I did not write an episode I mean I do not my name is not on any of the scripts um look for the other town with the people I worked with give them the credit give and certainly give no holiday credits that's his thing that's it is large was largely sitting in the writers you may be like what about mutants though yeah seriously no I was just like I was just in the back flipping through an old like hardcover marble masterwork getting like yo mimic was dope can we use mimic yo and cable jump back and killed his own dad well speaking I'm just gonna stick with you Andy because another another question from Devin is what does a co-producer on an FX show do oh um definitely gets in early enough to contribute to the lunch order I think that was key no they so I mean this was relatively new to me too but basically the titles that you see at the beginning of the show again the show and the credits they're generally you know it's writers guild stuff so all the different levels of many different levels of producers are actually just writer credits um you know so there's the writer credits go this is I've just recently learned this it's like staff writer um story editor um uh co-producer producer producer supervising producer executive producer basically so a co-producer does less than an executive producer certainly but it's really just but that even that is not necessarily true it's really just like it's hierarchy and it's it's guild determined um and it's you know some co-producers like some of the people also co-producer title are people who wrote scripts um for the season so but I do want to circle back industry to reiterate how vital the lunch ordering was and is for tv writers for ins that was a that was a real eye opener for me and I'd like to think I contributed in in a major way all right Chris Luke Hanlon wants to know do you regret buying all that Eric Eckart stock a few months ago bravery comes in many different ways and my bravery was investing deeply in Eckhart Industries uh I think that it's a it's a it's a field that's in flux um I think that what we did in 2016 is a base for growth uh and we're you know whether it changes in in in people's attitudes the market but I think we're here we're here and we're here and we're here and we're along with Eckhart can you can you give that same answer as Giovanni Rivec in Boiler Room I would really by the way it by the way I don't mean to harp on this I realize I just gave like a very like tongue-and-cheek answer about like ordering lunch in the guild like for real though this is my question we're talking about Aaron Eckhart are you jumping into our sandwiches I just want to come back to this and just literally like you just it was sitting around and talking about ideas and like breaking story and coming up with possibilities for the show so it's like being on a podcast but it was like being on a podcast with the pace but the pace better anyway back to Aaron Eckhart yeah I've really had a really good year I know that he didn't get any Oscar nominations he was great in Sully was good for this I don't know really what he has on play but you know when I when I invest in somebody I stay with him also Chris Harvey wants to know will you stop yelling into the microphone does he want me to or is that a question about whether or not I tried to yell away from the microphone right I've also thrown some compression on it so it's a little less harsh for the listener nice you're like what's big Chris clear Chris did you think that that question was like the same sort of question he would ask to like puffy in the 90s like mr. calms will you ever stop like is that how you took that question like there was no moment when you were like oh maybe he wants me to stop I'm happy to stop yelling I mean you know it's like I don't want to be a caricature you have to understand that it really does me good to hear that that enthusiasm especially because right before you basically do the thing to me when people are like yeah I'm gonna drink a whiskey but then I'm gonna drink a coffee and I'm just gonna send my body on Space Mountain because right before we start recording you're like hey if you look at the New York Times yeah things are real dark okay let's go all right I got so here's another critical listener grandma so no Andy are you ever going to be able to start an episode again without bringing up how depressed you are about the election no I bring up every conversation that way I mean like I'm not a good hang right now is anybody no you're good don't sell yourself short you're a good guy you got you keep it like sorry sorry I'm a good guy I'm just not a good hang like I you know I'm just trying to watch the young pope and hold it together like everyone else in America you know yeah wait knuckle time guys all right the last question for Chris um Sterling Johnson wants to know if you can start a school of pronunciation for rhinism's like biopic and adaptation it's like man you know whoo these are savage yeah I'm interested in what made you choose the ones that were like all nags for me uh yeah I know that you know here's the thing I talk a lot you know like we want to not a podcast I'm usually talking at the office and just like I get stuff wrong man we do this more or less live like if you guys want me to go back and fix everything you're just gonna lose some juice right with me actually when I picked that I didn't know that that was like bashing you I was I do know that I've been battling with Prince Jason's recently though also Zach just basically admitted that he's joining the long line of producers of our show who basically don't listen to our show which respect and somebody else also said I think it was to you Andy that they think you use the word pars incorrectly oh okay look at trying to even the field this is classic this is like dad moves like playing the kids against each other I use it incorrectly how should you use pars in a sentence I don't I don't know what this person's talking about you went to brown you should know I use pars I'm gonna graduate I get spelled biopic they said why do you misuse the word pars all the time especially when describing a movie preview this is from red to brown wine says this wow movie previews I don't know why I guess you know the heart wants what it wants but that's my answer why don't we just wait here's the speed round we're just gonna zip through these as fast as can um would Logan be better with renter no is with renter as the kid yes is the americans the wire of the 2010s uh no because chris doesn't watch it do I actually like the young pope I can't tell yes fuck yeah yeah you do is the young pope the last Jedi oh um you think that the world's connect you think it's gonna wrap back around in episode eight he'll be he'll be walking on to a star destroyer he does have a big death star in his office I'm gonna say I'm gonna say yes it is uh isn't jedi plural for multiple jedi yes this was brought up multiple times and I have to admit like I feel like I got my hands up and be like that guess that makes sense but you know what then call it something else like just be like a bunch of jedi's but they're the last ones like don't like just don't the bait and switch that that's that's just the Hollywood fixer talking like guys that the title is good it's short to the point but what if it was longer and a little more confusing what if it was when Oliver Stone makes his trump biopic in eight months who plays trump too soon too soon hanks or dinsell depends on what you're looking for pikdinsell is way higher than pikanks but I think hanks in terms of like moving a movie probably has a good higher bag ever who's tv career do you like more do you like hanks on like on bosom buddies and saturday live or dinsell on same elsewhere man right before unsub which s&l you wish could portray you in the watch parody sketch wow um i don't know people's answer this katie mckinnon i want katie mckinnon to do both i don't really get future do you yes yes yes why do you guys refuse to watch horse and p i i'm already too sad yeah it just seems like this is this is the problem with even good stuff you know it just it feels like it's gonna be tough and it feels like it's gonna be work and i don't want to think about art that way i don't want to think about something that people respect so much that way so i honestly feel like this is also me definitely at this point over year in abusing my i'm not a tv critic anymore card so i don't have to watch everything this is denying myself something that i am at least curious about but it is tough at the end of the day to be like let's let's fire up a 15 minute larry met kev monologue in a bar you know that's on me i i i we we promise we promise we're on the wrong side of history here i know that we're supposed to watch it i just i just haven't been able to work myself up to it and there's just like all this new stuff it's now streaming on hulu so you know it's pay for it as much uh can can the new japan droids save rock and roll that doesn't need to and i'm actually lukewarm on the japan droids andy what do you think i forgot the album came out i haven't listened to it yet but i like the single wow i am old now i didn't even know that was out um can it save rock no no because the thing about chamendroids it's so exciting is that it's basically like taking it's making a a smoothie of everything you've ever liked about other rock bands and then just just jamming it together in a Vitamix i feel like if anyone's gonna save rock they might have to do something slightly more forward looking but who might who might say i don't know moonlight or lala land moonlight i know andy's answer moonlight uh that's a pretty easy binary for me i am i am standing on the car of the of the anti-lala land express i'm up on the roof it's in a cello car and i'm just riding love it up here any take an american i don't like what i see any takes on man in the high castle speaking of which i enjoyed like the first few of last year's the first seasons and i know that it is a hugely popular show but i found it to be incredibly slow and kind of like a tough hang and just lost interest uh andy do you never really do you didn't keep watching did you no i watched the first few um i've heard that it improves slightly in the second season i thought it was absolutely beautiful i thought if i was ever gonna watch a show slowly for production design that would be the show but i found the characters in the acting just essentially not that interesting so i tapped out all right we'll go two more uh what was your favorite women's uh march protest sign with pop culture spin there oh easy easy i put this on instagram it was the one that said um presidential approval rating 32 percent rotten tomatoes paul blart maul cops for uh 33 percent that's good i saw one that said mike pennz loves nichol back all right so last one and this is kind of a compliment i love i love the way you guys analyze plot where can i read more learn more about how to critically look at plot the way you guys do that's a great question um you know i think there's lots of stuff andy and i are obviously like children of like some of of a great you know movie critics and we came up reading like some amazing critics growing up whether it was ebert or you know some of the guys even like on a week to week basis like david amson or your dad or my father who i grew up reading yeah kara ricki i mean we grew up reading like the philip and choir when we were going to have three movie critics it was pretty awesome um as far as like i personally just always loved that period of the internet when it was somewhat untethered to commerce and it was really just a place for people to publish stuff that they uh couldn't find it you know didn't even know to find an avenue for and like some of the really passionate deep writing about shows like lost uh mad men um and even films like i mean one of the reasons why i'm still hanging on to my my alien stock assignment was an amazing series was an amazing uh like live journal um post about prometheus i think we've talked about this a couple times that like was just a completely unhinged thousand multi-thousand word explanation of like the religious imagery and prometheus and um it's that stuff still out there if you look for it but yeah i think any i grew up in an era when that stuff uh was was more prevalent i would also jump in and just say like in addition to the great tv critics that are out there right now um you know like like um like nussbaum like on seven wall mass dollar sites um oh ryan i really say this i i don't own this stock at all but i think that the new york times right now is just a murderous row in almost every field in terms of criticism and i think it's really helpful to read criticism in fields other than the ones you're most interested in um you know so obviously our friend wesley morris is just just killing it across the board and culture over there now uh friend john kara mone gun music as well um but like aoskata movies and peatwells on food i just think are almost fearless i really the way they approach things the way they construct a sentence is and do it with a word count which is not which everyone would agree i did not have a grantland and many of us on the internet did not have um i think it's really really impressive yeah thanks for everybody for reaching out and who participated in the mailbag we can't even know for the only questions you can check out the watchlist on twitter if you just follow at the watch pod the watchlist is where you find out what nanny and i are going to be talking about uh on our next episode if you want to jump ahead and sort of be able to watch what we're talking about um so yeah follow us on at the watch pod on twitter uh to tell a friend about the watch man spread the word thanks so much for listening let me say this now that the mystery has been completely removed from it for now forever good job rich yay talk to you later thanks again to curiosity stream of subscription streaming service that offers over 1500 documentaries and nonfiction series from some of the world's best filmmakers they sponsored us today curiosity stream is the world's first ad free nonfiction stream service with over 1500 titles and 600 hours of content it's available on many platforms web app roku android ios chrome cast amazon fire amazon kindle apple tv and the content spans history science nature technology and more the plans are just two ninety nine a month you check out curiosity stream dot com slash sign up and use the promo code the watch during the sign up and get unlimited access to the world's top documentaries and nonfiction series completely free for the first 60 days 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