I.V.M. I.V.M. We should go all Ramanujanandas. It's the smallest number which is the sum of two squares in two different ways.
It's also the smallest format that we have which is a shoddy so we need to get to the point quickly. Is this the number 1729? And that sagacious voice that you hear is that of Srikhet Arpalli who is now an NRI. Hi Srikhet.
How does it feel? The first transcontinental, not transcontinental, same continent no? Yeah. It's extremely fun to do silver in your boxers.
Oh that's an option. And sitting. Why are you wearing boxers? It's a progression.
You go first time try out boxers and now wearing a decent t-shirt. Next time it will progressively reduce. So do you realize that now us recording, us calling you in, we have taken one step towards being the bugle. Are you planning to start a talk show there very soon?
Hopefully not. I'm doing one with my clients over here. They are particularly enjoyed. So how does the Malaysian government take to like jokes about the government?
Otherwise last week tonight will be your last week. Yeah I mean one fine day when the calls are off and then please take influence. Okay very good. Unfortunately the banter will need to stop here because it is a shoddy and we have exceeded we have already eaten quite a bit so we will continue the banter later.
So since you travelled far far away I thought the ideal topic to have for the shoddy would be extradition. Wow that's optimistic. Also a lot of it is happening around in the news and I think Narayan asked him like how much of extradition do you know and he says quite a bit with a smiley. So I'm not sure why.
So let's get into it. The only thing about extradition that I know from here is that if you indulge in a certain herb that we have no knowledge about whatsoever that you get a warming first and the second time you get extradited. Quite dishonorably. Which this herb is thyme of course.
Yeah it is thyme. Yeah yeah yeah. In fact the Simon and Garfunkel song over there goes parsley, sage, rosemary. That's all it ends over there because thyme is banned.
And rosemary follow. Okay. Right. Very classic.
We will extradited you just for that. Somehow it seems funnier without seeing this smug face making these jokes. Oh is there what you're going to talk about me? We would have an option for that except for the fact that IGN Studios does not support this bandwidth.
Alright fair enough. Hi Abbas. Okay moving on from this family gathering. Extradition.
Extradition is the act where one jurisdiction delivers a person accused or convicted of committing a crime in another jurisdiction over to their law enforcement. And jurisdiction is important because it's not just one country. It could be a state. It could be two different police stations.
Oh even that's called extradition. Yeah yeah apparently. So if a guy commits a crime in Goregaon and the guy buggers off to say Kolaba, you know they will have to ring up the Kolaba branch or something. And that might be a very hyper specific example but I think in the state would be a better example.
And this extradition has come up in the headlines quite a bit recently thanks to legends like Vishay Malia and Mehul Choksi recently legend Antiguan guy. And of course the bap of them all Lalit Modi. And very recently I think this morning's paper or yesterday gangster Ravi Pujari has been So I read something saying that he fears for his life sorry. If you are a gangster called Ravi Pujari you really do need that gangster in front right.
Nobody will take you seriously if your name is Ravi Pujari. He's been in and out of news for years now. His specialty is threatening Bollywood personnel. I think he fired on Mahesh Bhatt or something.
I'm not really up to date on all these details but that's what he does. You change one syllable and he goes from threatening Bollywood celebrities to threatening Australian bullers. Oh very well done. Nice nice nice.
Ok cool. Now extradition. Now it seems fairly straightforward. If a bugger commits a crime in your country and he goes somewhere else and that guy should ideally hand over the criminal back.
But there are reasons why the recipient country can refuse to send this guy over. Like if the person is facing say death penalty and there are a lot of countries that don't believe in death penalty which is why they don't send people back to say South Arabia. Or face torture which is why they don't send people back to say South Arabia. Or for political reasons which is why say Ecuador doesn't want to send Julian Assange back to the US or whatever.
The act has to be a crime in both countries and that I thought was interesting. But here's another thing that's sort of interesting. So there is no one international law for extradition. Right?
Because there are so many jurisdictions involved. Each country, extradition involves two countries. Right? There needs to be a specific extradition treaty signed between the two countries.
Right? So if there is not, then they have to figure out what to do with the alleged criminal within the country. Yeah, case by case. Which is what's happening to Mehul Choksi right now.
Because Antigua and India don't have an extradition treaty. Because I'm guessing not too many people have tried going there before. Yeah. I mean the only Indians who ever go there let's face it up for this for the cricket.
I know a delightful language about Antigua. Please go ahead. There was an old man from Antigua whose wife said, oh what a figua. So he said, oh my queen, is it manners you mean or are you referring to my figua?
What? No, but please, please. Let's just go ahead. Shriketa, your challenge for the week is to use the word figua in conversation.
Anyway, here like a cab driver barely understood English so I could pretty much comfortably use it and they'll be like, okay, he's just thinking too fast. Oh, you're saying it's a figua of speech. Okay, anyway, international law states that if terrorism happens then extradition must happen, etc, etc. But here's something I figured out.
If you commit a crime there's always a country for you to run to. Hence Mehul Choksi in. Okay, so that's why people go for extradition. Mehul Choksi into this place.
The United States of America, the self-appointed policemen of the world, they have these things called black sites. Thanks to a delightful gentleman called George Bush Jr. Basically what they do is they set up sort of like even like they go to Afghanistan and they have these little camps where they commit torture within those camps. They say this camp is US therapy so we can do whatever you want to those guys so we can do a lot of torture and stuff.
So a lot of controversies happened over there. So these are called black sites. So actually that's an interesting factor. I mean what you were saying actually it's a little incorrect where they're not actually US because considering they're not in the US.
So actually what they do is they try and play on the loophole where they say that it's not actually happening on US soil so US law does not apply. And second thing is what they do is also they label under George W Bush a lot of people were tortured due to the 9-11 thing. They were not even given status as prisoners of war. They were all labeled as enemy combatants who are temporarily being held.
Now the enemy combatants phrase was so loosely used that you could hold an enemy combatant up to a couple of years. And because they were enemy combatants they did not need to be presented in a court of law or subject to any kind of stuff. And US even conveniently forgot about the Geneva Convention. So basically torture to their will.
So US has like very lawyered this thing up so that they can do their methods of torture. That's scary. And that's theoretically saying that Putin could set up camps in Saudi Arabia and use Sharia law over there. Oh yeah.
Nice. Nice. You take a host of both worlds. Let's come to specific examples of our people.
And people always say like Malia has obviously come to this time. Why is he still over there? Why is he still there? So here's the status of all three of all those gentlemen.
Malia now the UK is a very interesting place. And it consistently has found India's paperwork unsatisfactory to extradite Malia. Now the UK extradition process in specific is extremely long and laborious. You know you have to submit paperwork and then a district court has to say okay fine let's go ahead and extradite.
And then a couple more pages and then it goes to the Secretary of State who has to say alright extradite. And even after that if there is scope for death penalty or for Malia to be tried for something other than what the application paper says. Like if he says okay he has whatever he has swindled money from banks but at the end of the day he's going to be tried for selling substandard liquor which he should absolutely use. They can't allow that to happen.
And even within all this Malia can appeal at any point of time hence the process is very likely even today. Like in December 2018 the court said that he can be extradited so now he's sitting pending with the Secretary of State. Home Secretary actually. Home Secretary that's right.
And even if that happens say in a week from now which nobody knows whether it will. Malia could appeal against this and it could honestly take months or honestly even years till there is a chance of him being extradited. So it's unlikely that he's going to come back anytime soon which is probably why the government of India just got frustrated labeled him an economic offender and basically try to seize all his property and try and get back whatever they can. So that's the state of Vijay Malia.
Lalit Modi nobody knows actually. I think everybody has forgotten about Lalit Modi and his blackberries. The more interesting thing that's happened recently is Mehul Chokhsi. Mehul Chokhsi of course is that he forwent a brilliant potential career as a before model in Weedloss ads.
He's like one of those theory geometry papers when you have to construct something with a compass and a ruler. So Mehul Chokhsi can be constructed entirely with a compass. Oh wow. He's not prepared for going with this.
Okay. Mehul Chokhsi. Okay. So he swindled the Punjab National Bank 13,000 crores worth.
Wow. Which rocked the Indian banking system and not in the same way let's say Metallica has rocked Bangalore or something. He cheerfully went off to Antigua, surrendered his Indian passport and became an Antigran citizen. There's apparently a way in which you can do this.
There's something, there is an investment program, a Caribbean investment program or something where if you pledge $50 million worth of investment in the Caribbean islands you automatically become a citizen of the place. So Mehul Chokhsi the whole advantage of that is apparently invested in something, heaven knows in what. It's not even $50 million. I was told it's like of the order of $300,000.
No it's in other countries. I mean various countries. I could be off. It might be 1.5 million but some millions.
I think you can do this even in Estonia or something. In Eastern Europe a couple of those guys are pretty progressive this way. But yeah this is a wonderful loophole. Mehul Chokhsi's next year is on February 22nd.
India and Antigua do not have an extradition treaty. And he has refused to come back to India citing that he will die on the flight back to India. Oh this is beautiful. He had a promise or a prediction.
This guy is like I will die on the way back to India. It's a long flight. It's a 41 hour flight. You know you can stop.
India is bad but it's not that bad also. This is like the parody version of one of the famous phrases like couplets in Indian. This thing where it says Parody version of this is I am afraid I don't understand that. The guy made himself so great he climbed up a tree Now the god is asking the people to get downtown.
So anyway this is the status of the 3 high profile extradition pieces from India. And yeah that's about it. We are planning to use the extradition treaty to get you back to India actually. We are labeling you an economic offender.
I would hope that I can be in a position where there is enough. You stole it one guy. Yeah that's true. I regard it in not exactly the same state or hygiene condition.
But that will go back. But the one thing about extradition that I was saying is that It's actually a great See for a lot of countries Especially when they don't have extradition treaties with other countries I mean to be very honest that country wouldn't be flying whatever If they had to send a guy back to the original country. But then these guys become political pawns for them. Where they are like you know what you really want this guy back.
You need to like give us like some trade exemptions and some shit like that. So there's a lot of back channeling that happens when the extradition treaties come into play. Because for governments it goes far beyond the crimes of the person. So for the countries that are seeking extradition of certain people Because extradition of such high profile things they become of course news articles And therefore it becomes a political challenge for them to get them back.
And for the other countries it becomes like an economic way of trying to Antwist the countries that are seeking extradition to like get trade exemptions and stuff. So rarely is extradition about the crime. I wonder if there are planned extraditions you know like if China wants something for the US then China contacts like a criminal in the US And then says if you commit this crime we'll take care of your family and everything. You shoot off somebody and you come over here and then we'll use that to leverage whatever.
This is also another conversation that's happening with like the UK and Dexit. So because of Dexit the UK is looking at India being a big partner for them in the future. Because they will no longer have the EU. And one of those conversations is revolving around like Neal Choksi and Nirav Modi and all of these guys.
And that was because these guys will be a favourable deal in Brexit. Oh before it used to be Kohinoor Diamond now it's Nirav. Things have come down quite a bit. But even Diamonds are involved in either case Nirav Modi, Kohinoor so it's fine.
Yeah I think we should wrap up our little shorty there. Is there any parting thoughts words? It's close to 10pm here while you guys in India are feeling 7.30. So let's move quickly so that we can not miss my bedtime.
Okay done. That is we have 13 minutes more. Thank you everyone for tuning into this shorty. The cycle first, she goes on Skype.
So write us and tell us what you think about the audio quality of this episode. The first time we are trying something like this. And also send your... A lot of people by the way actually wrote in to me thinking that Shriker was leaving the episode.
He's only leaving the country and... I mean he's already left but everyone will be happy to know that he is, I assume, that he is... And as we sign off, try to imagine a world where someone in Saudi Arabia will be fighting a case not to get extradited to Denmark or Norway. So that will be a good...
You know it's always the ultra direction. So someone is in Norway, he doesn't want to get extradited to Saudi Arabia. That's how we could end this episode. There is expedition, there is refugee crisis.
So anyway, stay safe, stay unexplated and space simplified. Bye.