Ep. 34 - The future of journey management through a systems lens - Jennifer Jenkins

In this episode of The Experience Edge, Jochem van der Veer speaks with Jennifer Jenkins, Head of CX Design at Scotiabank. Jennifer shares her deep expertise in service and systems thinking, offering a fresh lens on organizational silos, cross-functional collaboration, and the evolving practice of journey management. With roots in workplace design and a strong belief in in-situ research, she provides a unique perspective on how to elevate both customer and employee experiences.The conversation delves into topics such as rethinking silos as structures, aligning organizational design with customer experience, the necessity of qualitative research in a digital world, and designing with sustainability in mind. Jennifer advocates for systems that are not only more efficient but more human, urging companies to expand their awareness, reframe assumptions, and design responsibly for scale.Guest BioJennifer Jenkins is the Head of CX Design at Scotiabank, where she leads strategy and design across complex systems in a large, legacy financial organization. With a background spanning service design, workplace strategy, and systems thinking, Jennifer brings a multidisciplinary approach to shaping impactful customer experiences. She is particularly known for championing cross-functional pods, emphasizing qualitative research, and promoting sustainable design choices in digital contexts.TakeawaysSilos can be reframed as necessary structures; the goal is to connect them, not eliminate them.Service design often breaks down when organizational design doesn't align with the intended customer experience.Journey pods at Scotiabank are cross-functional, aligning CX strategy with product development early in the process.Pods engage in both qualitative and quantitative research, using methods from anthropology to unmoderated online testing.Trust within an organization reflects externally: high employee trust correlates with high customer trust.Designing journeys as nonlinear, multidirectional experiences is more accurate than traditional linear models.Qualitative, in-situ research captures insights missed in digital-only environments - context truly matters.Journey-centric org models must remain hybrid to account for structural and process realities.Designing for sustainability includes decisions like avoiding unnecessary animations or heavy media.Employees often lack the tools and knowledge to act sustainably - education and awareness are key.Sustainability in digital design must consider both content and energy use, and requires collaboration with engineering.Small design decisions, when scaled across millions of users, can have a massive environmental impact.Chapters 00:00 Introduction and welcome 01:12 Jennifer Jenkins’ background and role at Scotiabank 02:00 Rethinking organizational silos 04:00 Why silos persist in legacy organizations 09:00 Aligning org structure with service delivery 10:00 Designing effective journey pods 13:00 Balancing quant and qual in CX research 14:00 Making CX insights actionable 16:30 Nonlinear journey design and its challenges 21:00 Viability of journey-centric org design 23:00 The overlooked role of employee experience 27:00 Measuring intangible experiences 29:00 The value of in-situ research 32:00 AI's limitations in understanding human nuance 35:00 Real-world insights from observational research 38:00 Journey friction and user trust 39:00 Designing CX with sustainability in mind 44:00 Empowering teams with knowledge and skills 48:00 Closing thoughts and where to find JenniferLinkedInFollow Jennifer Jenkins on LinkedInFollow Jochem van der Veer on LinkedIn