Ep. 384: Dave Ramsey, Andrew Wommack, Gordon College

On today’s program, new life breathed into a lawsuit against Dave Ramsey’s company. A former employee claims he was fired for not sharing Ramsey’s religious beliefs on how to handle the COVID-19 pandemic. We’ll take a look at the court’s latest ruling in the case. And, a Southern Baptist pastor in Florida faces a minimum sentence of life in prison without parole over harrowing child abuse allegations—but new state laws also mean the death penalty is on the table. Also, Andrew Wommack announces plans to pass the baton to new leadership at Charis Bible College in Colorado. But first, Gordon College was denied forgiveness on $7 million in COVID-era Paycheck Protection Program loans. It submitted an appeal, but in July a judge dismissed most of the college’s claims. The producer for today’s program is Jeff McIntosh.  We get database and other technical support from Stephen DuBarry, Rod Pitzer, and Casey Sudduth. Writers who contributed to today’s program include Kim Roberts, Bob Smietana, Yonat Shimron, Kathryn Post, Tony Mator, Jessica Eturralde, Shannon Cuthrell, and Brittany Smith. Until next time, may God bless you.   FIRST SEGMENT Warren: Hello everybody. I’m Warren Smith, coming to you from Charlotte, North Carolina. Natasha: And I’m Natasha Cowden, coming to you from Denver, Colorado. And we’d like to welcome you to the MinistryWatch podcast. Warren: On today’s program, new life breathed into a lawsuit against Dave Ramsey’s company. A former employee claims he was fired for not sharing Ramsey’s religious beliefs on how to handle the COVID-19 pandemic. We’ll take a look at the court’s latest ruling in the case. And, a Southern Baptist pastor in Florida faces a minimum sentence of life in prison without parole over harrowing child abuse allegations—but new state laws also mean the death penalty is on the table. Also, Andrew Wommack announces plans to pass the baton to new leadership at Charis Bible College in Colorado. Natasha: But first, Gordon College was denied forgiveness on $7 million in COVID-era Paycheck Protection Program loans. It submitted an appeal, but in July a judge dismissed most of the college’s claims. Warren: Like many colleges and organizations in 2020, Gordon College received COVID relief funds as part of the Paycheck Protection Program (PPP). But when the Massachusetts-based college applied for forgiveness, the Small Business Administration (SBA) denied its request on the $7 million loan. Gordon then sued the SBA for violating its free exercise of religion, equal protection, and due process rights, along with violations of the Administrative Procedure Act. U.S. District Judge Beryl Howell in the District of Columbia dismissed most of the claims brought by Gordon College in a memorandum opinion issued in late July. In her opinion, Howell said the SBA had sought follow-up documentation from Gordon College because the “employee count” was “indicative of concern.” Natasha: How so? Warren: In April 2020, Gordon submitted its PPP application with 495.67 employees listed. It reached this number using the full-time equivalent method, which counts part-time employees as a fraction of an employee. A spokesperson for the college told MinistryWatch. “Gordon College followed the procedures given at the time of the loan application and most importantly, used these funds completely in the manner in which they were presented by the SBA: to avoid layoffs of employees and continue to provide them with a paycheck even though the College was forced to shut down operations for months in 2020,” Natasha: So what’s the issue? Warren: The court recited that in later documents, the school “self-reported” 639 employees at the Massachusetts campus, which exceeded the maximum count of 500 employees allowed under the program. Gordon College told MinistryWatch that when it applied for loan forgiveness in July 2021, the SBA had changed its language to “headcount” methodology rather than the full-time equivalent method. “This change by the SBA of the method of reporting employees is the basis for this dispute,” The college brought multiple claims to the court. The judge dismissed all claims against the SBA. In the MinistryWatch database, Gordon College has a two-star financial efficiency rating, an A transparency grade, and a donor confidence score of 82. Natasha: We’ll stay in the courthouse for the next story concerning a new ruling against Dave Ramsey’s Company. Warren: A federal appeals court has ruled in favor of a former employee who claimed Ramsey Solutions, the company run by Christian personal finance guru Dave Ramsey, discriminated against him during the COVID-19 pandemic. Brad Amos, a former video editor at the Franklin, Tennessee-based company, sued Ramsey Solutions in 2021, saying he was fired for not agreeing with Ramsey’s faith-based views about how to respond to the pandemic. Natasha: Can you explain what he means by that? Warren: During the pandemic, Dave Ramsey downplayed the risk of COVID-19, referred to those who wear masks as “wusses,” barred employees from working at home and said his company would be guided by faith not fear. Amos’ attorneys alleged that at the Lampo Group — which does business as Ramsey Solutions — wearing a mask or social distancing was seen as “against the will of God,” and employees were required to agree with Ramsey’s beliefs about the pandemic. Attorneys for Amos also claimed that his faith, including Amos’ belief in the so-called Golden Rule — doing unto others as you would have them do unto you — required him to mask, social distance and comply with other CDC recommendations during the pandemic. His insistence on doing so, Amos alleged, led to his firing. Natasha: In December, a U.S. District Court had dismissed both the discrimination and fraud claims before they went to trial, saying Amos had failed to show he was discriminated against.  But now there’s a new ruling Warren: On Thursday (Aug. 8), the Sixth Circuit ruled that the district court had erred in dismissing Amos’ discrimination claim. The court ruled that federal law protects employees from discrimination based on “religious non-conformity” — also known as reverse discrimination, or requiring an employee to follow a religious belief or practice. The Sixth Circuit Court also ruled that a belief in the Golden Rule qualified as a religious claim and was protected from discrimination. The case will now return to the lower district court for trial. Ramsey Solutions did not respond to a request for comment. Natasha: Next, NC Megachurch Pastor Divorces Wife Warren:  Gilbert Andre Thompson Jr., pastor of megachurch World Overcomers Christian Church in Durham, N.C., has divorced his wife of 33 years. The divorce was final on July 1. Now, under normal circumstances we would not report the divorce of a pastor. But this situation is a bit different. As part of the divorce proceedings, the assets of Pastor Andy Thompson, as he is known, came to light. Natasha: What did that reveal? Warren: He apparently lives in a home valued at $2.85 million. The real estate website Zillow shows the home in Mebane, N.C., is over 10,000 square feet with four bedrooms and six bathrooms, a pool, a hot tub, and a gym. County property records list the owner as Restore Community Development Corporation, a North Carolina non-profit corporation. Natasha: There’s quite a list as the couple divvies up the assets Warren: Andy Thompson will pay his ex-wife $12,000 per month in alimony for nine years. Natasha: The couple had four children together, all of whom are now adults. Warren: Andy Thompson founded World Overcomers Christian Church in 2003. It claims over 15,000 members. According to his biography on the church website, Thompson authored a book titled “Real Love Marriage,” which it claims was an “impactful, life-changing tool that [is] redefining marriage and family dynamics in the modern era.” He also founded the Overcomers Christian Fellowship to influence and minister to other church pastors. Natasha: Warren, let’s take a quick break. When we return, nearly 12-hundred Southern Baptist churches in North Carolina participate in a week of service. I’m Natasha Cowden, along with my co-host Warren Smith, and we’ll have that story and much more, after this short break.   BREAK   SECOND SEGMENT Natasha: Welcome back.  I’m Natasha Cowden, along with my co-host Warren Smith, and you’re listening to the MinistryWatch podcast. Next, the story we promised before the break. Many churches use summer for international missions work—but North Carolina Southern Baptists envisioned something closer to home. Warren: A total of 1,169 mostly Southern Baptist churches in 92 of North Carolina’s 100 counties participated in the ServeNC effort, fielding volunteers for a week of service helping vulnerable populations, including homeless people, orphans, prisoners, refugees and the elderly. Todd Unzicker, executive director-treasurer of the Baptist State Convention said “In my almost 20 years of being a Christian, I can’t remember a time that a group of churches this large was doing something like this together,” Natasha: What kind of work did they accomplish? Warren: In Winston-Salem, Calvary Baptist Church packed 750 school backpacks. First Baptist Church of Raeford built a wheelchair ramp for a couple in the community. Friendship Southern Baptist Church in Concord put on a “Senior Prom Night” at a local nursing home. Salem Baptist Church in Dobson stocked shelves and bagged groceries at a local food pantry. Natasha: What’s our next story? Warren: In 2022, Mark Rivera, a former Anglican lay minister, was convicted of felony child sexual assault three years after a young girl told her mother tha