Ep. 451: Willow Creek’s Dave Dummit, Steven Furtick’s Elevation Church & the State of the Church

On today’s program, Willow Creek Pastor Dave Dummit announced this week he is stepping down as leader of the influential Chicagoland megachurch. Leaders have also named his successor. And, revenue is down for Steven Furtick’s Elevation Church, while in-person membership is flat. We’ll take a closer look at the church’s 2024 annual report.  Plus, the state of the church—Barna Group released its new report showing men have outpaced women in church attendance, reversing a longstanding trend. We’ll have details. But first, more churches are leaving what’s known as ‘the Network,’ led by Steve Morgan. Nearly half of the congregations that have been associated with a “Network” of churches overseen by Pastor Steve Morgan have either publicly announced their departure or removed any reference to the network from their websites. The producer for today’s program is Jeff McIntosh. We get database and other technical support from Stephen DuBarry, Rod Pitzer, and Casey Sudduth. Writers who contributed to today’s program include Kim Roberts, Bob Smietana, Shannon Cuthrell, Diana Chandler, Brittany Smith, and Christina Darnell. A special thanks to Baptist Press for contributing material for this week’s podcast. Until next time, may God bless you.   MANUSCRIPT:    FIRST SEGMENT Warren:  Hello everybody. I’m Warren Smith, coming to you this week from Charlotte, North Carolina. Natasha: And I’m Natasha Cowden, coming to you from Denver, Colorado, and we’d like to welcome you to the MinistryWatch podcast. Warren: On today’s program, Willow Creek Pastor Dave Dummit announced this week he is stepping down as leader of the influential Chicagoland megachurch. Leaders have also named his successor. And, revenue is down for Steven Furtick’s Elevation Church, while in-person membership is flat. We’ll take a closer look at the church’s 2024 annual report. Plus, the state of the church—Barna Group released its new report showing men have outpaced women in church attendance, reversing a longstanding trend. We’ll have details. Natasha: But first, more churches are leaving what’s known as ‘the Network,’ led by Steve Morgan. Warren: Nearly half of the congregations that have been associated with a “Network” of churches overseen by Pastor Steve Morgan have either publicly announced their departure or removed any reference to the network from their websites. MinistryWatch began reporting about Morgan in 2022 when a watchdog group called “Leaving the Network” issued an eight-point “call to action,” including an independent investigation of the group. Morgan, who was originally part of the Vineyard Association of Churches, left that group in 2006 and formed his own network. At one point, the network included 26 churches in the U.S., U.K., and Taiwan. Morgan is still the lead pastor of Joshua Church in Austin, Texas. Natasha: Why were churches leaving? Warren: One of the concerns that “Leaving the Network” has raised is that Morgan was arrested in 1987 for aggravated criminal sodomy of a minor, but his case was diverted. The group believes Morgan’s past has been concealed from members and leaders in the network of churches. Natasha: Eleven churches no longer appear to be affiliated with the Network. MinistryWatch reported about four — Isaiah Church, Vine Church, North Pines Church, and Hosea Church — last fall. Now seven more have indicated in some way that they are no longer part of the Network. Warren: Brookfield Church in Athens, Ohio: Cedar Heights Church in State College, Penn.: Mountain Heights Church in Morgantown, W.V.: Oaks Church in Muncie, Ind.: South Grove Church in Athens, Ga.: Vida Springs Church in Gainesville, Fla.: Christland Church in College Station, Texas: Natasha: Next, Willow Creek’s Pastor steps down. Warren: David Dummitt, who became pastor of Willow Creek Church at the height of the COVID-19 pandemic, announced Sunday (March 23) that he is stepping down as leader of the influential Chicagoland megachurch. Shawn Williams, the campus pastor of Willow Creek’s South Barrington, Illinois, location, will succeed Dummitt as senior pastor starting April 1. Dummitt will remain on staff until July 31 to help with the transition. Dummitt’s departure comes as Willow Creek has largely rebounded from the shutdowns during the COVID-19 pandemic as well as the controversies generated by founding pastor Bill Hybels and accusations of sexual misconduct. The church ended 2024 in the black, with its first budget surplus since 2019, according to a church spokesperson. In-person attendance for 2024 was up 16%, to 9,875 per weekend, with an additional 3,700 people viewing services live online. Natasha: Dummitt, who had pastored a Michigan megachurch before coming to Willow Creek, told RNS in 2020 that he knew restoring trust and a healthy culture at the church — which for decades was one of the nation’s largest and most influential congregations — would be a long process. Warren: The new pastor, Shawn Williams, is -- like Dummitt -- a graduate of Wheaton College, where he earned a master’s degree in theology. He served at megachurches in the Chicago suburbs and Las Vegas before coming to Willow Creek. Natasha: Next, an update from the state of Texas and NDAs. Warren: A bill to stop the use of nondisclosure agreements (NDA) to prevent sexual abuse victims from telling their stories has advanced in the Texas legislature. On Wednesday, March 19, the Texas House Committee on Judiciary and Civil Jurisprudence voted unanimously to report House Bill 748 favorably to the full House of Representatives and recommend passage. Natasha: The bill, authored by Rep. Jeff Leach (R-Plano), is called “Trey’s Law” after Trey Carlock, a sexual abuse victim of Kanakuk Kamps’ employee Peter Newman.  Carlock died by suicide after suffering in silence due to an NDA. Warren: His sister Elizabeth Carlock Phillips spoke to the committee in support of the bill, sharing how her brother endured a decade of abuse then signed a restrictive NDA that caused him to even question whether he should discuss details of his abuse with his therapist. NDAs that take away a sexual abuse survivor’s voice and ability to tell their story are taking away their “path to healing,” she said. Natasha: So what’s next for this bill. Before it is enacted as a law, the bill must pass the Texas House then move through a Senate committee and be approved by the Texas Senate before being signed by Texas Gov. Greg Abbott. Natasha: Warren, let’s take a quick break. When we return, the latest findings from Elevation Church’s 2024 annual report. I’m Natasha Cowden, along with my co-host Warren Smith, and we’ll have that story and much more, after this short break.   BREAK   SECOND SEGMENT Natasha: Welcome back.  I’m Natasha Cowden, along with my co-host Warren Smith, and you’re listening to the MinistryWatch podcast. Next, the story we promised before the break. Warren: According to its annual report for 2024, Elevation Church led by Steven Furtick had less income in 2024 than it did in 2023. Total revenue from tithes and offerings for the multi-campus megachurch was $91.35 million and the year-end offering brought in $10 million. This represents a decrease from the $108 million in tithes and offerings reported the previous year. The church reported that the largest portion of its budget — $31.88 million or 35% — went to personnel expenses. The next largest expenditure was for central operations and ministries at $25.29 million or 28%. Natasha: According to its report, Elevation Church gave $12.16 million to outreach efforts in 2024. Warren: Elevation Church is based in Matthews, N.C. It has 19 total campuses—17 in the United States and two in Canada. The newest campus in Columbia, S.C., opened in December 2024. It also began construction projects on three campuses in 2024: Elevation Raleigh, Elevation Greenville, and Elevation Uptown. The annual report claims weekly attendance at the various campuses is 17,373, only a slight increase of about 300 weekly attendees since last year. Natasha: Elevation Worship, the music arm of Elevation Church, has a wide reach with over 2.3 billion streams of its songs streamed across all platforms in 2024. Warren In June 2023, Elevation Church withdrew its affiliation with the Southern Baptist Convention, giving no specific reason about its departure. Elevation Church is a member of the Evangelical Council for Financial Accountability, which lists its net assets at over $305 million. Natasha: What’s our next story? Warren: Former Intel CEO Pat Gelsinger has joined Gloo, the technology platform that serves churches and ministries, as its executive chair and head of technology. Gelsinger has been an investor and board member for Gloo for 10 years, but now will take on the expanded role of leading the Gloo product and engineering efforts, including Gloo AI. Gloo aims to help churches and ministries adopt technology to expand their reach, but it wants to use artificial intelligence as a “force for good.” Natasha: How do they plan on doing that? Warren: Gloo AI Chat is designed to protect children and families from harmful, unbiblical, or misleading content. Natasha: The Colorado-based company was founded in 2010 by Scott and Theresa Beck and currently claims to work with over 100,000 faith, ministry, and nonprofit leaders. It has been involved in the “He Gets Us” ad campaign designed to attract people to Christianity. Warren: In 2022, MinistryWatch reported about Gloo’s data mining to connect people exhibiting signs of crisis, stress, anxiety, divorce, depression, substance abuse, or grief with churches or ministries who might help them. Last year,...