Hey everyone and welcome back to another episode of the daily grind joining us today on the podcast is Ryan Coon Ryan is the co-founder And CEO of avail an all-in-one software solution designed for do-it-yourself landlords prior to avail Ryan was an investment banking associate at BMO capital markets Ryan is a hard-working spirit and together with his co-founder Lawrence They developed the idea for their company on a napkin that now solves the needs of thousands of landlords His goal is to help the real estate market to become as transparent and as efficient as the stock market everyone Be sure is always you have a pen piece of paper sit back and really dive deep in today's interview with Ryan Coon enjoy. Well Ryan Coon welcome to the daily grind my friend. How are you? Thanks for having me Colin I'm really excited to be here.
I'm doing pretty well. Awesome. Well Ryan for people kind of being first introduced to you today You know if you wouldn't mind just kind of talking a little bit more as to who you are and what is it you do? Yeah, of course So right now I am the co-founder and CEO of a company called avail We provide an online platform an online set of tools that really is built to make the entire residential rental experience easy For what we call do-it-yourself or DIY landlords and their tenants In the states about half of all the rentals are owned and managed by guys like us We're the full-time professionals.
They own a couple properties on the side and it's really this part of the market that we we focus on helping Prior to certain this company. I was an investment banker. I actually working for a Canadian bank. I worked for BIMA in their Chicago office and Was there for about four years before deciding hey, I want to do something more entrepreneurial I don't want to wear a suit and work on the South Street my full career So eventually started thinking about the rentals rental properties that I owned I saw an opportunity to really build tools that would help make the process easier I ended up leaving my full-time job spent a few years actually learning Ruby on rails So learned how to code and in order to launch the business.
So that's a bit about me But yeah, it's been lots of highs and lows along the way. So as you were working in investment banking you won't you own properties on the side as well? Yeah, I mean I was fortunate back through oh eight oh nine I had some extra cash sitting around that I was able to invest in a few single-family homes in the Chicagoland area Almost up near the Wisconsin border had bought a couple of properties I was managing those in addition to a full-time job. I was managing those with a combination of spreadsheets pen and paper or paper jacks Chase quick-pave I know etc And I eventually started thinking you know this is really inefficient for me It wastes a lot of time and then also the renters who are living in those properties.
They've got a really poor experience So how do we solve this and that was really what what spawned the company that I'm running now called avail interesting? So how many years into your b-mo career did you start to kind of work on this as a side business? Yeah, for me it was probably around three and a half to four years in I was hitting that point in my career where I was in my Call it mid-weight 20s and I started realizing, you know I'm not I'm not learning nearly as much as I was this first couple of years And for me as a lifelong learner as someone who's just passionate about constantly trying to explore and create new things That was when it when it finally clicked and it's like this is no longer fun. I'm no longer learning So let's go do something different interesting So you're starting to take the courses and learn code like any did you have any experience in that at all?
Or are you going in green go? I mean going in pretty much without anything I mean throughout college and high school had taken a few computer classes and stuff it and then while I'm banking you're writing Excel formulas Which I mean Reading actual code is quite a bit different the core logic in the core like thought process is in some ways pretty similar interesting So as you were doing this for a veil did you get help or did the first bit of code? Like you just did it yourself. Yeah, so I started the company along with one other guy one co-founder Okay, he has a very similar background.
He was actually golden in sex here in Chicago at the time He's got more of a data science background where he was doing a lot of back office hedge fund analytics and stuff And so he and I simultaneously both learned to code along the way when we got stuck and we encountered a couple of That's where we pull in different people different experts different consultants and stuff But yeah, the majority those first few years. It was just him and me just banging away at code And understand I'm curious cuz like a lot of people You know you get out of university and you know you want to get into a lot of people want to get into banking Right like Goldman Sachs for a lot of people who are younger is almost like a dream job even what you were doing investment banking It's like make a lot of money. It's like kind of what you want It's funny how you and your friend along with other people once you're in it you start to realize that it's not really all it was Kind of built up to be oh, that's it. That's a hundred percent real I think no matter what you're doing the grass is always greener on the other side And you don't know what you don't know.
Yeah, I know back I forget what episode number it was but you talk with Eric Sads from also IRA Yeah, and I was listening to that earlier this week just preparing for the show and stuff and one of the things that he talked During that about during that show is expect the unexpected and I think that whether you're going into a 9 to 5 career Or you're starting a company. It's the same thing like you don't know what you don't know the grass is greener You just have to be willing to embrace and roll with the punches Have you noticed like a trend be it maybe a personality type that more so fits in with that corporate lifestyle as opposed to maybe You and your friend and partner where you kind of more had that sort of entrepreneurial spirits and kind of moved into that Yeah, I mean, I think looking both at my personal network my close friends family along with professionally I do think there's a certain type of person that is Kind of more apt to go explore and have more intellectual curiosity where they're always restless And they're always looking for that next thing for a lot of us entrepreneurs that that theme kind of runs through and through For other people though, they've got different passions different priorities and maybe a career and maybe starting a business isn't in the cards for them And that also doesn't make it wrong. I think it's different different strokes for different folks Like everyone needs to find what it is for them that makes them happy. Yeah, I completely agree So you start working on this company like how long did it take for you guys to to get like maybe from beginning to to launch Yeah, for us I mean, we were simultaneously like learning to code while trying to hack together the initial product Process, I mean, it was a painful probably two to three year period and then that was 2012 13 14 we launched in early 2015 So we've been grinding for a while But fortunately today where we are here in June of 2020.
We've got more than 180,000 owners and about 400,000 renters Wow rely on our platform every day for things like the rent payments and so The last five years since launch has been certainly highs and lows but directionally kind of up into the right which is what we like So what's the business? What's your business model? Like is it a free platform and you're taking a portion of the payments? Like how does that work?
Yeah, good question. So our product is completely free for landlords Landlords with any number of units any size portfolio they can come on they can use our basic tools which are really powerful They can use those basic tools completely free For for owners who want premium functionality. They want additional customization or they want their payments to be processed a lot faster We do offer a premium service And that's really where the bulk of the revenue comes from is just some landlords It's very similar to like a slack or a zoom this model where they can use the free product which is great. We love those people Some some smaller percentage of people will upgrade and pay us and those are equally as powerful customers Very cool.
So as you're building the company, did you take on any investors venture capitalists or is this all kind of your own money? Yeah, no, I mean fortunately I wish it was all our own Building it. I wish that we had retained all the equity and all the ownership, but we haven't and as first-time entrepreneurs I think we've been fortunate. We've been able to raise about five and a half million outside capital But I think in addition to the capital what we've gotten from our investors is more just knowledge experience insight Know how into how to effectively build and grow and scale a company Especially over there.
I'll say over the last few months with everything going on with COVID-19 and stuff It's been really really beneficial for us to be able to retouch those investors ask questions about other downturns that they've seen How have they handled it? What do they recommend in our situation? Yeah, I mean, it's interesting right? Because I think so many people tell you like hold on to the equity But oftentimes like if it's your first go you just want the product out there You just want it out there.
I think that's where people kind of get stuck on the correct me if I'm wrong It's like they're trying to keep everything, but it's like it's not it's not like it Yeah, I mean I think there's a whole idea of when you rather have a small piece of a big pie or a big piece of a tiny pie Like obviously it's better to have that and share the pie with others And then there's also this notion that I think it's an old proverb where it's basically if you want to go fast go alone If you want to go far you got to go together and we've really embraced that I mean we're fortunate we've got some great investors who have come along side us and more than just the chefs that they write It's really about building that partnership and being able to help them help each other and really lean on each other and Really not on our investors a lot. No doubt So you know you mentioned you have around like five to six hundred thousand users on your on your platform right now When was it was there sort of like a catalyst like maybe it was like a tipping point for you where you're kind of working And all of a sudden you're like wow, we're starting to see these amazing results Was there was some sort of story there? Yeah, there. I would say it's been anything but kind of a linear progression where We've been fortunate We've been able to grow pretty significantly each year And so there've been a number of things that we've learned along the way Number one first and foremost.
I think listen to your customers. That's something that you know early on Lawrence my co-founder And I we built the product that we wanted the product that we thought every other landlord wanted And while that ultimately became true and while our initial like long vision of this and platform for landlords was true There were a lot of nuances that we simply didn't understand we didn't plan for a build for what have you that really required Listening to our customers absorbing their feedback I think that's probably number one thing that's benefited us as we've grown and I'll say that the more that we listen to our customers The better we are the better the faster the business is growing and that's reflected both in the product But I think also with how we market and how we tell the story. I think about the whole like, you know jobs to be done philosophy Where like the whole Snickers campaign, right? Yeah, why do people walk into a convenience store and buy Snickers?
It's like because they're hungry and and that's where they come up with a whole marketing slogan hungry grab a Snickers They actually like first went out and they listened to people who were buying Snickers and they asked them why are you buying it? And they all said because I'm hungry and so they just flipped that and that's been the remarketing success so far Interesting. So how did you engage with your customers? Like what were some things you did in order to get that feedback?
Yeah, I think for us It's been kind of a non-stop investment in in opening up any line of communication So we obviously send out emails and we send out surveys We also have opened up through our website live chat. People can email us. They can talk about social media We've also got we've actually got a phone number on our website people can call they can talk to someone here in our office in Chicago And we're everyone on the company is trained to listen to that feedback and we've got a system internally to process that very cool So as your I mean, are you currently in real estate now yourself like do you still own properties? And is that kind of something that you're actively growing to?
Not as much growing I would say more holding steady there I mean running this company that's growing fast that we've got 25 employees today were In the year at 35. I mean, this is taking up a hundred percent of my time right now So I'm not other scouting for properties, but do still have a couple So for someone listening, maybe they they're thinking of getting a SaaS company kind of started for themselves You know, they've been thinking about it for a while they're in the process like what would be a what would be something to kind of Look out for and then what would be maybe something like a great piece of advice that you got early on that would help them Yeah, well I think on your second part a piece of advice that I got Was was actually wrong and and I would actually flip it and say what do I wish I knew then that I know now I think that really on a lot of people kind of follow the lean startup methodology Which says just build something and get it out there into customers hands as quick as you can And that whole notion of building MVP and then iterate on it I think for me going back and that's actually what we did we invested way too much time building product and We didn't focus enough on building an audience And what I what I wish that we would have done early on Is I wish that we had built content. I wish that we had started a podcast I wish that we had really established our brand first and foremost as more of this like Knowledge base or more of a set of resources where those things honestly are a lot cheaper and easier and faster to spin up And then building a whole software program. So while in addition while the product is important I think that the audience is something that a lot of entrepreneurs Unfortunately overlooked and I think that hurts them a lot Yeah Do you feel like a lot of like SaaS companies kind of lack in that area of trying to build that audience and build that brand?
100% I think that's one of the things that's way overlooked I mean if you can't get whatever the number is a hundred five hundred a thousand people to subscribe and to listen and engage with your Email updates or your podcast or whatever it doesn't make like you don't need to go build software You're not hitting on a pain point. Don't do it and you'll save yourself a lot of time and money Yeah, interesting So that's something that as a company you're looking to do now and build your brand and obviously you're on the podcast So like that's important to you, but like what are some other things you're doing? Yeah, for us I mean we like I mentioned we built the product we then got it out there and started getting feedback on talking with our customers And one of the things that we learned through talking with customers is that they were starved for information They were like hungry for not only tools that would make their lives easier But they also wanted guidance and they wanted help and support Unknowing what they should be doing and when they should be doing it and so back in 2015 right after we launched the product We said look we should probably start listening like we should absorb this feedback and so we started creating Educational content we now have a full-time team in house that actually all they do is they create content They answer questions from our customers. That's great turn that into blog content and podcast content.
Very cool So what was that trying to what I want to know is obviously have 25 or you're probably moving into 35 people here at the end of the year? What's the transition like been from you from obviously the beginning stages? You're kind of doing everything like your hands-on you're doing everything but now you're moving into more of a leadership role How's that been? Yeah, it's been I mean not without flaws not without I mean it's been a good learning experience and for me personally It's been really fulfilling going from like being on the front lines writing code to now really trying to lead a team I think for me Someone adopted this like servant leadership mentality where my I look at my primary role is just helping teach grow develop All the people on our team and if I can help each of them learn grow and develop and become better people better professionals in whatever it is They want to do our company will benefit and I have a lot of fun these days really focusing on those three things Interesting now do all your people do they come into the office typically because I know obviously stuff got flipped upside down So I'm kind of curious if you've had a transition there as well Yeah, great question.
You can actually see behind me. This is our office. Normally it's it's packed full of people everyone on our team works Typically would work out of our office. The last few months though.
It's been been weird We were pretty early March 12th of this year was our first day being fully remote It was pretty early and it was well before the kind of lockdown and shelter in place here in Chicago But we we thought it was important to put our teams health and safety first Fortunately, we've been able to adapt really well and really quickly to this new environment, but I'll say I'm personally Kind of looking forward to getting back to where we can all be in the same space We can all work and collaborate with her ideas on the whiteboard. I can pop into meetings when I want I just I was wondering if like the last few months Maybe it's kind of maybe changed you in terms of wanting to do stuff that's a little bit more outside of the office So it's curious that you're wanting it seems like you enjoy more of the team atmosphere I love that energy. I can really contagious. I think it's helpful The one thing I'll say though is our team has been incredible through this period and everyone I think if anything productivity has gone up I agree and it's so so cool to see so I think the one change going forward is as a leader I'll definitely be more understanding and more willing to let people work work remote work how they want to work Rather than trying to force them into whatever Work environment best suits me Yeah, I've definitely learned learn that that's interesting like I grew up in sports and you kind of You have different coaches as you grow up and some of them kind of forced down your throat different things and I mean as an athlete Different athletes kind of take the different leadership styles differently like one they perform better when people are harder on them and they're more involved in other people It's more like you know just push me to the back and I perform better that way So it's interesting how you're starting to see that and I think that honest I think more leaders are probably starting to see that themselves and understanding that you know Maybe Mary performs better at home.
So why don't let her work at home, you know Yeah, I think it's definitely exposed that That idea that what's best for one person isn't best for everyone and you really have to tailor the approach to the person You can't just fit everything in the same box. Yeah super interesting So as we're moving through this year and hopefully things are going to start to somewhat get back to some formalcy And we're gonna fight through all this that's going on and we can start to start to get some wins here We need some wins in 2020. Don't we really do we really need some wins? We've been stacking up the losses So what's the plan for the remainder of the year?
Maybe even moving to 2021 for you guys? Yeah, I mean, I think for us we continue putting our customers first one of our core values that I think about the most is customer Interesting. So keeping customers at the center of everything we do will remain really important I think for us will continue investing in building best in class tools and resources for landlords and tenants I think depending on what happens over the next couple months In terms of the rental market and in terms of the need for different rent relief programs We may get more or less involved in advocating for certain policy changes That's an area that I've taken a real interest in recently is trying to understand the different mechanisms that are available The different relief programs that are available. So and then I think continuing to build out a great team For me personally, I got a lot of satisfaction out of bringing together Really best-in-class professionals to accomplish the shared goal.
Very cool. Very cool So I know you had mentioned you're big into personal development You mentioned that kind of early on and I think a lot of our listeners are as well So what are some things that you do whether it's a daily basis or some habits you have that you feel like are helping you Maybe either during these times or just help you with productivity? Yeah, I think there's there's probably three things that I would mention and The first one has become especially important over the last few months where it's really just develop a routine and try and keep things somewhat normal I say that that's become important because I think it can be tempting while we're all working from home So just roll out of bed in your sweat hands and yeah start working for me It's been really important to have that routine where you get up you get ready You put on your normal workloads and then you're like you kind of mentally prepare for the workday and you kind of separate working outside life So that routine is important number two. I think it's really important to take care of yourself And what I say about that is both physically and mentally make sure that you're in the right mindset If you're trying to build a company it is It's way more detrimental to your company's success to try and like overwork yourself to not eat right to drink too much whatever Like you got to really take good care of yourself And then number three, I think it's important to carve out some amount of time each day each week for continuing to learn and and develop yourself I mean I do that personally through listening to a lot of audio books listening to a lot of podcasts I try and kind of two birds with one stone listen to a lot of that stuff and you actually got running So you get the physical exercise, but you also are learning along the way Totally, I think it's important, right?
I think I've been doing this a while so like when this happened. I'm used to it I'm like you got to get up. You got to put on your regular clothes It's so easy just to sit in the pajamas all day and stink by five like it happened. Like it's easy Yeah, never seen and I actually fortunately learned it We have one guy on our team who about six months ago.
He moved from Chicago to New York So he had been doing the whole work-from-home thing for about three months before covid hit And I reached out to him back on March 12 and said hey look wait tell me like what are keys to success What have you found that works and doesn't? Fortunately, he he had spent a lot of time thinking about it and was able to share that across our team That's awesome. It's good to have people like that And just helps it like anything else like you said that whether it's mentors or you're learning like you need those things that help You kind of push forward and then excel the learning curve so to speak Yeah, I mean why trying to figure stuff out yourself if you lean on others who've been there and encountered those same things before No doubt. So people wanted to check out avail like the platform.
Where's the best place to go? Yeah, best place to go is to head over to our website. It's avail avail.co We're also available on all of the different social media channels at hello avail So drop by check us out on twitter linkton facebook Hello avail combined say hello beautiful And then if people wanted to like connect directly with you whether it's like follow along on kind of your journey and what's going forward Is there a best place whether that's linkedin instagram twitter? Yeah, I'm probably most active on linkedin find me ryan coon avail should come up Awesome.
Well, I'll share all those out The way we on the show here before we end this off is each at the end of each episode We're gonna give you the give you the floor if you've heard obviously listen the podcast before so you know that this is uh You know how this goes, but you can share a thought of the day Whether it's something that you're thinking about a message that you really want people to kind of resonate with Just the way that a way for people just to hear it out and show Yeah, I think for me right now the the thought that comes to mind is just um you go back to the old Jimmy v Who was a legendary college basketball coach in the state school? He gave the whole talk at the sp's about don't give up don't ever give up I think that's more important now than ever with what's going on around the world with different protests different with the pandemic I think it's really important just to you know again like like he said don't give up don't ever give up I love it. Well, uh ryan man. Appreciate your time.
Thank you so much for jumping on the podcast today. It was awesome Yeah, thanks so much for having me Colin really appreciate it back soon You got it everyone hope you enjoyed today's episode if you did hit the subscribe button share this out with a friend We'll be back next week with another episode until then call them or get signing off and always remember to keep on grinding