Hey everybody and welcome back to another episode here on the daily grind podcast today We have an awesome guest lined up for you Omar Visrom Omar is the CEO of Ankle back office solutions Awesome interview Omar is an amazing guy a lot of lessons to be shared in this one Be sure as always you have a pen piece of paper sit back and dive deep in today's interview with Omar enjoy Today's episode is brought to you by policy genius with everything going on right now A lot of people are asking if it's even possible to buy a life insurance at all the short answer to this is yes You can buy life insurance during a pandemic and if you have loved ones who depend on your income You probably should as an insurance marketplace policy genius is in contact with the life insurance companies on their platform every single day They're keeping track of all the changes in the markets So you don't have to which means they can get you covered quickly and for the best price here's how it works Policy genius compares quotes from the top life insurance companies in one place It takes just a few minutes to compare quotes from top insurers to find your best price This doesn't just save you a lot of light work You could save $1,500 or more a year by using policy genius compared to life insurance policies Once you apply the policy genius team will handle all the paperwork and red tape for free So if you hit a snag or any speed bumps during the application process, they're there to take care of everything So if you're one of the many people looking to buy life insurance right now, but you're not sure where to start Head over to policy genius calm policy genius will find the best rate and handle the process completely It's so simple guys They'll get you and your family protected and hopefully give you one less thing to worry about again that is policy genius calm Head there right now. Well, Omar visor. I'm welcome to the daily grind. How are you?
I'm well. Thank you yourself I'm great. You know what any day I get to speak with an intelligent person such as yourself is always a good day is Thank you. Thank you Omar for people kind of being first introduced to you If you wouldn't mind just kind of explaining a little bit as to who Omar is and what is it you do?
Sure. So I am today an entrepreneur I'm very very fortunate to run a company called ankle ankle back off the solutions and Really? I've been fortunate in my career leading up to this and I really do thank you know all of my mentors for all the great Advice that I've received over the years. I started my career as an accountant at KPMG worked there for eight years You know really became an accountant so that someday I could own my own business So fast forward to today.
I have the benefit of having built an organization that focuses on cloud accounting delivering great Service and technology to small to mid-sized businesses Wow, so you you had mentioned you wanted to become an accountant to eventually become an entrepreneur that's interesting What why that route for you that was that like guidance? It was given to you or yeah? So I used to I mean I still do follow Warren Buffett quite closely. Yeah, that's something to the effect of you know Accounting is the language of business And so you know I was naturally you know curious by that I then got into a business program and undergrad and actually I found that I wasn't really great at much But I took an accounting course and it really clicked So that's where the story really began interesting So kind of during your journey was it was there ever ideas that had come kind of top of mind that you had tried before you kind of Got a dangle Actually quite the opposite so I felt like my life plan was actually moving further and further away from me So I've gotten into this rhythm of working for a big company I liked you know the perks the the expense accounts if you will and I was actually on a pretty good path there I was you know relatively junior in my career But I was already starting to have discussions with partners about partnership and you know what that would look like for me at a young age and I One day there was this day I remember I woke up and I said to my wife things were going really well at work And I said to her I don't think that this is what I want to do I think that I still want to be an entrepreneur I still want to do something for myself and I feel like this is taking me further and further away from that and So I actually did the old Steve Jobs test wake up every morning for three months See if you still feel the same way and I'm that and what I decided to do is I decided to leave I didn't have a plan But I knew that I wasn't going to build a plan as long as I was working the way that I was working in that environment So I jumped out I went to or another organization called BCA like the local Auto Club They were starting they were starting a car share program And so I knew that that wasn't forever but I felt like I needed something different I needed something that was sort of like in a startup like environment So I went into that and that actually was the beginning of you know doors opening for me It's funny you say that because I think that that's one of the things that holds people back from trying is because you know They do have a say a cushy job where you do have the benefits of you know having a big organization behind you and expense accounts and a steady paycheck So you waited you know that all those months as Steve Jobs had said you you were unhappy you jumped out you quit What was support like like say in like family because a lot of people go through that What was what was kind of family support like so the benefit at that time is I didn't have a mortgage I didn't have kids and I also thought to myself if I don't do this now I'll never be able to do and what age are you sorry?
I'm stupid was 29 at that. Okay. Okay. Yeah I'll just turn 30, you know all those things and all of these forces were forcing me to evaluate that maybe I was at Some kind of a crossroads and needed to take some action Interestingly, you know up until that point I had a very structured life You know like undergrad become an accountant kind of marching through life And I remember telling my my mom that said she said well if you're gonna do this at any point you should probably do it now You now got a foundation and you can take some risks So actually I'd say the family support was well But what really did it for me was finding my business partner and full transparency found my business partner Before I had the idea before I knew what it was that we were going to build And it almost it almost really fell in my lap I really do look at that first conversation as being a major turning point for me Who is a I'm curious who was your business partner at that time?
What was he doing? Yeah, so my business partner actually was my client at KPMG But when I left KPMG he I ran into him and he said I thought you were gonna be there forever So I never said anything, but I thought you would make a pretty good business partner And so I said okay, tell me more because I knew about it. He built some fairly successful businesses I knew him personality wise quite well and so We started talking more because I said, you know, tell me more. I want to know what you mean by that And it was just a case of like he was very he was very ambiguous about it But he said there are some great things we can do with finance and technology If we decide that we want to work together, we will find an idea We will find a need and we will build something great And so he was that that mentor that I needed at that point in life and of course a little bit of financial stability just a little bit But really we started it on a handshake.
It was okay. Let's agree to work together. I'll quit my job And let's get going. Wow.
So this was agreed upon kind of before you had left. Yes. Yes. Oh got you Okay, so that there was even though there was no stability There was a plan in terms of like eventually this is what I'm gonna do.
Yeah. Yeah, exactly So we knew we were gonna get into business together. We knew that we were gonna do something in finance and technology He left the date up to me. So I said let's start in the spring of 2016 But then I took this trip to Hawaii got completely recharged Red Jeff Bezos's book the everything store his biography and I called him the day I got back and said I think I'm gonna quit my job today Let's do this.
Did you know you wanted to do something in accounting? You know to tell you the truth I thought I didn't want to do anything accounting that was a little bit of my business partner saying take what you have Something that you've learned and let's you know, let's really transform this industry. Interesting. Do you like accounting?
Do I like accounting I view accounting as a means to an end. It's been really a means to an end for me in my career I think it's helped me get this far, but I also see it as a means to an end for businesses businesses need it Businesses need to have good accounting. They need timely accounting so that they can make better decisions, right? Yeah, so you so you kind of come up with this idea of ankle And what year was that where you kind of came up with the idea?
That was the end of 2015 when we you know when we did the handshake and then January 4th 2016 was my first day in my partner's office You know whiteboard in him for a few hours Wow So how long did it take you to kind of go from idea stage on the whiteboard to kind of like having a product having So this is a really good question And I think that this is something that a lot of entrepreneurs get wrong So my business partner is a is a big believer in execution so places by doing things in a nutshell, right? So we didn't spend a whole lot of time planning. I just thought that okay There's you know, there's this cloud-based accounting software There's you know, my network Let me just throw something up on LinkedIn and just say that I'm working I wish I still had that one line because I got a lot of like what what do you say but it got a lot of attention and What it ended up being is you know send me your clients? I'll do their bookkeeping right because no accountants wants to do bookkeeping and We got clients we got clients in the second month and we kept on adding and adding and that's really the story There was no big grand plan Wow So the kind of like Like most good entrepreneurs will tell you is like figure out if it's there's a market for it first And if there is then go and execute seems like you kind of follow that model exactly Yeah, we always knew that technology would be a big driving force in this business But really for the first three years, we didn't build anything we just we just took what was out there took the pieces out there And over recently we've started you know building our own technology, but that's in response to what we see in the business, right?
Interesting so you so the kind of the problem you were seeing within kind of your business and and say your market was the fact that you know Accountants didn't want to do bookkeeping. So this was a technology that could help them solve that issue Yeah, really more of a service that could help them solve this a service enhanced by technology, right? And so that's what it was it's you know Let me make your life better by taking some bookkeeping off your hands introduce me to your clients so we're always very clear we wanted to be client-facing and You'll have you know It'll make your life much better And so that really took off and we got a lot of referrals early days from my accounting network And then beyond that it was just a lot of hustling a lot of networking like I create these lists like okay I'm going to talk to 50 people in the next 10 days right coffee meeting upon coffee meeting never had so much coffee And just jacked up on coffee Yeah, so that's what it took really to acquire customers and to this day we still employ a lot of that same You know hustle we have a website now. We have a marketing team But it really is building a business is all about hustle interesting But what's been you know from the start obviously like there's been growth and you'll continue to see that But what would say one of the biggest hurdles early on maybe first two years that you faced yeah I think people is one of them.
So like hiring hiring So hiring people where there's not a lot of structure where you don't have HR where you know You don't have an employee manual, right? So it's all about getting people excited and getting people focused I've done a lot of growing there personally And then the other part is just myself dealing with ambiguity The not knowing what's coming next and knowing to roll with it and knowing to use your gut and make a lot of decisions Just based on that That's tough to make decisions on gut too But it takes like is there certain things that you kind of worked on because I know you know It sounds to me like you're readers a lot of books that say you know meditation or early morning So like is there something that has helped you kind of make those gut decisions easier? So What and I wish I've done this earlier, but knowing yourself knowing what kind of a leader you are knowing what your blind spots are is really important So I'm very fortunate to work with a coach today. We've done certain assessments.
There's one called the Enneagram It's quite popular today But it you know really you're one of nine profiles and basically as that report was being De-briefed with me. It was like somebody was reading my life story Right and it really just helps you understand why so many of the things that you do you do the way that you you know That you're wired So I'd say that that's one thing that I recommend to anybody Entrepreneur or not really anybody it'll help you understand yourself better and your weaknesses better What were some of the like things that you learned during that kind of self-assessment learning stage? Yeah, there's so many I bet but I actually learned through those assessments that I actually do reasonably well on gut So I've been in an industry where things tend to be very black and white, right? But you know making gut decisions isn't actually hard for me.
So that's why that transition. I think you know worked successfully But I'm not particularly great at following a process or building a checklist and I I mean that's what my business thrives on Right, and so what that means is it doesn't mean it can't be done It just means that I can't be responsible for building that infrastructure And so what I've been able to do more recently is really build a strong delivery team You know with a couple of leaders around me who you know do a fantastic job of that. That's great. And how big is your team now?
We are 45 people today We are split between here in India about 5050 so we do have a satellite office just outside of Delhi Yeah, end of the rest of our team of course is here in Canada But now actually distributed across Canada with our head office being here in Vancouver interesting So I mean early days I mean knowing that you're a founder and a business owner you kind of did everything yourself and now you're definitely more in a leadership role How is that transition kind of transitioning from day-to-day to more of being a leader? It's a really good question. So Really what it comes down to is you have to be ready to continuously evolve and change right because what happens? And I've you know had some good clarity on this in recent months is as you go through you make yourself redundant, right?
I no longer needed in the things that I did in day one And what happens there is you can go through these like short periods of like where you feel yourself confused and not really knowing What to do next and I think the important thing is to anticipate What's coming next and what's needed next so that you don't have those those lows Interesting you had mentioned a few minutes ago that you're working with a business coach How long have you been working with a coach about a year and a half now and how I'm interested to know like maybe how you got introduced to him or What made you kind of self-assess and realize that I need this yeah? I mean it was an introduction through a through a contact and it was just hey I you know I've used this person before you might want to consider talking to them But interestingly I had a conversation probably two years ago with the coach and then I didn't follow it up And she said to me after we started working together that I didn't follow up with you because if you don't follow up with me It means you're not ready for it. It's not the right time And so you have to really consciously Invest in it right it has to be something that you want and that you really need at that time Interesting and you are you gonna keep going with the coach? Absolutely.
Yeah in some shape or form I will we actually made a decision earlier this year to bring in a company coach so to expand it To our senior leadership team and now what's happened is everybody's had those same assessments done And it helps you see how you work with certain people and how you know what the potential risk areas might be and this has now become Part of our hiring process as well got you and kind of with your company before you know all this happened It everyone going to an office or you typically remote. Yeah before covid. Yeah. Yeah, so before covid we you know We're a hundred percent cloud.
So we have the ability to work remotely But we didn't do it just because it was one of those things that I felt took a lot of time and energy You know to have a remote policy. It's again. It's another piece of administration very I would say loose Up until covid hit and then of course covid hit and we just sent everybody home We actually found that Our productivity actually improved And I you know have to be careful there because a lot changed in the world in that period So is it just that we flipped this witch and told everybody to work from home and productivity increase? I think the answer is no, but I do think that that's a part of it, right?
Yep, people the flexibility to work in a way in a location that that is favorable for them I think that's quite important And I think that's been a very positive change of this pandemic Yeah, you know, it'll be kind of interesting to see like I'd be interested even to kind of hear maybe from you In terms of are you looking to kind of stay remote? Even after this is all over because you brought up a good point like as you you send people home There's also the pressure that people have on like this is a pandemic. I'm at home I have to do a really good job because you have to keep doing what you're doing. So do you envision you kind of staying with this model?
I think that we will have a tiered model. I I do actually still see value in an office You know having your leaders in the office whiteboarding those sort of casual encounters, right? That's what that's where I think a lot of magic happens sometimes and so some of that will be lost You know in the absence of that the other thing that I think is really important is it's not just a case of okay You're remote all of a sudden I think there's a different set of expectations of a 100% remote employee And I think that it is a company's responsibility to have very clear and measurable Outcomes because in the absence of that, you know measurement is hard. You can't see people they don't see you They don't hear what you think they need to be doing and vice versa.
So a lot can get lost in translation So this is where management style means to change I think quite considerably But to answer your question, I think we're gonna end up with a two-tiered model We're gonna have some people that do some combination of in office and work from home Um, and then there will also be some people and we've already actually started hiring some people that don't live in Vancouver So they'll never come. Oh, got you. Yeah Yeah, it's gonna be interesting to see how that kind of plays out and where companies are going It seems to me like a lot of people are gonna kind of go with that two-tiered method that you were talking about for sure Yeah, um hobbies for you. What do you like to do for fun off time when you're not working when you're not Rinding so to speak.
Yeah, good question. Um, I do have two young daughters So I have a four-year-old and a one-year-old so work hobbies, sorry work kids and then and then hobby Um, and actually the hobby side of things is uh, is I think changing right now um hobbies and uh working out, I guess So I've gotten into a really good rhythm. Um, I've never been particularly disciplined with working out But pre-pandemic for two years prior had become quite disciplined. Um, so I like to you know, non-pandemic times be at the gym Very that's where I like to start my day.
Um, in terms of hobbies, I do read a lot Um, I like to take a lot of short trips. I don't like to take a lot of long trips I find it hard away for long periods of time, but short trips, you know, just a couple days And then it's spending a lot of time with family whenever I can, right? Yeah, of course. How old are your daughters?
Uh, four and one. Oh, you would mention that, right? How how has that changed what you're doing? Uh, that's actually a really good question because that has been challenging Um, I'd say that compartmentalizing work and home life becomes very important When you're at home, you need to be very present with your your children And if you are an all-in kind of person like me, it's sometimes hard to turn off the work, right?
And what I've been consciously trying to do is for a certain few, you know, a couple hours a day at dinner times at bedtime I really do try my very best to shut it off, right? And if I can't, I'm usually just not there And you know, it's it's clear that I need to be working for that time. But doing both trying to do both at the same time does not work Yeah, it's tough, right where you have so many distractions even look at your phone Have you uh, I don't know if you have you watched I just watched it yesterday Have you watched the social dilemma on Netflix? I have not so I was at the dentist Okay, I was at the dentist yesterday and I was being I was getting a feeling done And I was about to click on that I did not to watch anything so I can't wait to watch it Yeah, it's really interesting, but it just goes to show like I watch it and I do my best I think like everyone else like I'm conscious.
I'm sure like you are like kind of put phones away shut off notifications But it's still it's really bad How dependent we are on these technologies and on all these distractions. Yeah, um Yeah, obviously reading you had mentioned that you read that's one distraction that you have for yourself Or there's certain books that you kind of turn to like are you more nonfiction or fiction? So I probably read a few too many business books, but that's that's just what interests me, right? Lately, I've actually been turning to some articles.
I read them in one yesterday. Um, you can search for it in linkedin It's called amp it up. Okay, and it's all about how Um, basically this this guy built two very successful businesses and the things that he did and the things that he didn't do And it's just written in such a clear blunt way strong recommended very cool For a bit for people who uh, you know, obviously we've been talking about it, but what is ankle? How does it help people?
We help small-to-mid-sized businesses and not-for-profit organizations Put their mind at ease by making their back office more streamlined and by delivering good quality financial reporting So it really is as simple as you focus on what you do best, which is growing your organization Uh, you know delivering on your mission if it's a not-for-profit organization We take care of the books super cool. What would be like a difference between what you provide and like a bookkeeper say? Yeah, that's a that's a great question because I get asked that all the time So there are no barriers to entry in what I do, right? Anybody can call themselves a bookkeeper.
That's interesting that you that they can do that, right? Yeah, um, so what that means is there are a lot of, um, the quality is all over the map, right? It is um You know, yeah, quality is all over the map And what people often complain about when they come to us is I can never get a hold of my bookkeeper My bookkeeper's slow. I never see numbers.
I only see numbers at your end And so what makes us different is really it's a combination of three things It's people Process and technology. So on the people side we do view ourselves as a services business. We're not a product business. We're very clear about that We're here to serve our clients and we find the best talent to do that Process, um bookkeeping is as I mentioned as I alluded to earlier is all about processes All about my checklist and consistently following that checklist Bookkeeping is not a space where you want to be creative.
It's the place where you want to be accurate, right? Um, so that's the process side and then technology really technology as an enabler You know to uh to deliver a great outcome for clients So we're always researching the latest and greatest in accounting technology We test every new outfit comes on the market But we only roll it out if there's a great process behind it And if our people can use it and deliver exceptionally good quality bookkeeping through it Makes a lot of sense because there's nothing more frustrating than trying to get a hold of someone and as a business You know just as well as I do you need that I like you need that information quickly You need it now and that's what I see so valuable about what you do Um going forward. What is there? Uh, is there something like an outlook like a two five-year outlook that you're looking to build on?
Yeah, so we have very ambitious growth plans. We want to be the the name uh the most trusted name in Back office in Canada. So like if you think of seredian and adp, I mean if you want your payroll done, right? You would probably go to them because there's that inherent trust with their name, right?
Um, so that is really you know, that's the ultimate goal, but there are a lot of steps in between I'd say Um becoming a little bit more of a technology company not losing sight of the fact that we're still a services business But really taking technology to the next level. Um, I think I mentioned earlier We have started to build some technology yep So having a platform for clients a one-stop shop where they get everything where they don't have to deal with different apps They just deal with us That's the vision and also helping clients take the data Um, you know that's generated in their accounting files and in other places and build visualizations that help them make better decisions In real time. So that's really I'd say from a service and technology standpoint what Uh, we'll really take off in the coming years and allow us to take the business to the next level very cool And if people wanted to to learn more check it out, uh, see how they can help them in their business Where's the best place people could go? Yeah, best place to go is to our website.
Um, fill out one of our contact S forms I'm very active Uh on the sales front so you will very likely hear from me or one of my colleagues Um, so don't hesitate to reach out. We'd love to chat with you further Very cool. And then Omar if people wanted to follow along on your journey like where's the best place people can go Where are you most active say on social? Definitely on LinkedIn.
Okay. Um, there I've a blog post there. Um, we'll be posting more in the near future and I'm quite active on LinkedIn So, yes, please follow me there Awesome. I'll share all these links.
Omar can't thank you enough for taking time out coming on the show sharing your wisdom Uh, really do appreciate it. Thank you very much. Of course, of course Everyone hope you enjoyed today's episode if you did hit that subscribe button share this set with one person who you feel like could truly benefit from Today's episode. We'll be back next week with another one until then call him Oregon signing off and always remember to keep on grinding