Hi everybody, and welcome back to another episode here on The Daily Grind. Today on the show, we are joined by Nick Velasquez. Nick is the author of Learn, Improve, Master, How to Develop Any Skill and Excel at It. He's also the founder of Unlimited Mastery.
And today we talk about how you can learn how to learn the right way in order to develop skills faster. Hope you enjoy today's episode. Grab that pen, a piece of paper, sit back, and dive deep in today's interview with Nick Velasquez. Enjoy.
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Well, Nick Velasquez, welcome to The Daily Grind, my friend. How are you? Thank you for having me. Of course, man.
I'm fantastic. You know, it's a little cold where I am. I'm sure it's cold up in Montreal as well, but other than the cold weather thing, life's good. How about yourself?
It's all good. It's all good. Same thing there. It's been cloudy.
No doubt. No doubt. Nick, for people being first introduced to you today, don't know who Nick is. If you wouldn't mind kind of explaining a little bit as to who you are and what it is that you do.
Sure. So I think that the most important part is that I'm fascinated with learning, how we learn and how to learn. And just that the voters of mastery, like how we get really good at different skills. And that's been my lifelong passion.
I always pick up different hobbies here and there, just learning anything from magic to beer brewing and stuff in between, flying a plane, things like that. I'm fascinated by how we can learn. And that's just been my pleasure and my passion for so many years. So that's kind of like the most relevant part about me.
I grew up in Colombia, South America. I live now in Montreal, but I spend as much time as I can in Tokyo. I love it. That's the best place to be.
You know, everyone who goes to Japan says the same thing. They love it. Well, yeah. The first time I went there, so I put off the trip for a long time because I was afraid that once I got to Japan, I wouldn't want to leave.
So I took the trip when I absolutely had to come back to Montreal. And when I got there, I was like, yeah, I understand now. Like this is my place. This is where I want to be, but it's really hard to immigrate there.
So I just spent as much time as I can. Interesting. So you mentioned, like you've always been a lifelong learner. You've had this fascination with learning new things.
Where did that come from? So I think two different places. One is I attended a very different middle school and high school than most people. So we didn't have teachers, we got tutors.
And it meant like we had to study on our own. We had study guides. And if we didn't understand something, then we will come to the tutor and ask. But basically, it was a system based on the teachings from Socrates, the philosopher.
So he believed that we came to the world with all the knowledge. We just needed to throw it out through questioning. So we'd be studying with the study guides that was like through different questions, getting to the knowledge. And if we didn't understand something, then we would ask our tutors.
So basically, we would study on our own. We would learn on our own. So learning became the process of discovery instead of something being imposed on us. And I think that's when I got fascinated.
I remember being so excited about learning physics. And for most people going through middle school or high school is a drag. For us, it was just like this fascinating journey, journey into like discovering different things. So I think that was part of it.
And then the other one was my family. They put a lot of value on learning. There was tons of books in my house. My mom was always reading.
And if ever I wanted something as a young teenager, and I would ask my dad, hey, could you buy me like these expensive clothes? Could you give me money to buy a car or something? It was always no. But everything that was learning related, it was yes.
So like, hey, could you send me to the U.S. to study music, which is going to cost more than Like this is the real thing, like, how did this song come about, and now you're making those sounds. Now you're creating those songs. So I think that's been the most fulfilling one.
And then learning to write. So in the process of writing a book, I fell in love with the craft of writing. And it's funny because when I look back at my life, I've always been writing. I just never knew how much it meant to me.
And for a lot of people, like someone trying to develop their passion or find what they really like, many times you've been doing it for a long time. You just haven't realized that that's the path and accepted it. Interesting. So you mentioned this book.
Tell us about the book. So, yeah, the book is about how to learn. And so how to learn, improve, and master any skill. So the idea is I put together the principles and strategies to learn more effectively.
And this came about just for those same reasons. I've always been very curious, always picking up new hobbies. And I was frustrated by how slow the process can be. It's like, why it takes me so long and so much effort to go from knowing about something to knowing how to do it.
So one thing is knowing about one thing, one skill, for example. You may know a lot about painting, but you might not know how to paint. So then it's going from that knowing about something to then knowing how to do it. So that took me into these many years of researching and trying to find the book that I ended up writing because I couldn't find exactly what I needed.
It's like, what are these techniques? And mostly it's just science-based. Like, oh, we did this study and then we found that we learned this way. And it was just trying to put everything together.
And I was trying to build a manual for the rest of my life. Like, this is what I'm going to use to learn anything that I get my attention on because there's so much I want to learn, but it's all the time. And after a couple of years, everything was taking shape like, OK, I'm getting done with the manual. And I figured if I'm going to solve this problem for myself, I might as well just do it for everyone else, turning it into a formal book.
But had I known the amount of work that was ahead of me in turning that thing into an actual book, I don't know if I would have done it. It was just pretty critical. How long was the process from start to finish? So that's a multi-answer question or answer, I'd say.
Because from the moment I had the idea and I started researching and then finished writing the book, that was about eight years. So I took about four or five years to research and then another three to four to write, although there was like a year or two in between where I wasn't writing much. But the idea is still there, built behind it. The other part of the answer, and this is what most Japanese artisans would answer when you ask them, how long does it take you to make, let's say, one pot in pottery?
And they will look at you strange and be like, my entire life. That's how long it takes, because everything led to this place for me to be able to make it. So in a way, it took my entire life to write this book. And in many different ways, all the learning that I've done and all the experiences that I've had are there in the book, like subconsciously or consciously, because I cannot be someone else when I write it.
It's just me. It's all my experiences, everything that I've lived, everything that I've learned. So in reality, it took my entire life to be there. And when you think about it that way, it's kind of, it's sad in some point because the book stopped growing with me.
The moment it was published, it won't grow with the rest of my life. Now it's on hold. So it reflects my life up to that point. And now everything that comes after will have to go into another book.
But yeah, that's the other part of the answer is it takes an entire life. It's all of you. It's everything you've lived from the moment you were born until now, the way you see the world, everything, it's in those words. That's fascinating because from some of the most successful people that I've interviewed, and I know for sure, I think one of the most important skills you can have is how do we learn faster?
Because especially if you're in business and you're trying to do things, like stuff's coming at you so quickly, you need to be able to learn new skills and acquire new skills and then implement them. What are some, what are some things that you feel like have really, because obviously you've written this book, you're a true expert. What are some things that can help someone? Like someone is looking to jump into a new business idea or someone's looking to acquire a new skill, whether it be a game or whether it be whatever.
Like how, how, how do you actually go about learning that in the most effective way? Sure. So the first thing is everything can be learned. So we have this amazing power to learn and that's the result of everything we have in our society.
So everything we're creating and everything we built is because of our ability to learn. So the first thing is just looking beyond that illusion. Sometimes we see someone doing something and like a professional, you see a great quarterback playing a championship game or you see a musician on stage and you think, I could never do that. And the thing is, you're only seeing the end result of many years of practice and developing that skill.
And because we don't see the process, we think that it's beyond our capabilities. So the first thing is just seeing behind that illusion and realizing that you are also capable of developing those skills. So I do the analogy of like watching a magic illusion. You see a magician, vanishes a card, makes it reappear in an impossible location.
The spectators, we see that and we're amazed by it. But if we could pick behind the illusion and see the mechanics behind it, we realize that that's something that we could also do through the study and practice of sleight of hand. So that's one of the first things, realizing that no matter how glamorous it is, like the people you see that you admire, yes, you're only seeing the end result because that's what attracts attention. That's what sells tickets.
That's what everything else. But there is a process behind it that anyone can replicate. And the book is about that process. How we learn, how we improve, how we master any skill.
So the first step is realizing that you can learn any skill. It is beyond our capability. Then the second part is just realizing that mistakes is a big part of the process. So many times when we get into something new and we don't get it right away, we think, oh, well, this is not for me.
I just don't have talent. This is not my area. I'm just going to change. And no, it's a long-term process.
So a fast or a slow start doesn't determine how far you're going to go. And like we put a lot of emphasis on talent and it doesn't really play that much of a role. There's this famous research from K. Andre Erickson.
He's an expert on expertise and expert performance. He's the one that run the research behind what then was popularized as a 10,000 hour rule, which is a misconception. We can talk about it after. But basically, after studying like many peak performers, they realized talent doesn't really play that much of a role.
Yes, it can give you an edge, but the bulk of expert performance is on the practice, the determination, the effort that you put behind it and the method you're using also to develop your skill. So, of course, many times people bring up the example of basketball. Well, if you're not tall, then you can't play for the NBA. Yeah, but that doesn't mean you can't be a great basketball player.
So unfortunately, basketball has only one division, but we see in fighting sports that we have weight classes. So if we had height classes for basketball, you could have amazing players at any height. They would just belong to different divisions. So the game is screwed towards like people that are tall.
But these actual skill of basketball, dribbling, shooting, all those things have nothing to do with height. So height gives you an advantage, but it's not the bulk. And even if that were the case, the tallest players would be the best ones. And that's not the case.
They still aren't. Yeah, now they're definitely not. Yeah, exactly. You had mentioned and I mean, this has been driven into probably all of us, including myself, is in order to become an expert in something, you need to put 10,000 hours into it.
You're going to debunk this, aren't you? I'm interested to hear it because I would love it. Sure. So the original research is from K.
Andre Erickson. He's a professor at Miami University, I believe. I mean, they were doing this long study on musicians in Germany, I think it was. So it's a music school and they were looking at violinists and their practice habits.
And they realized that the best musicians of that school had done about 10,000 hours of deliberate practice by the time they were 20 years old or 19 years old. So a couple of things there. One, it was not done across different skills. So that's one thing.
Like learning to play violin might be different than you learning how to juggle or other things. The other one is that it was not meant to determine a mastery timeline. It was an average that was recorded, like all the best musicians have done about 10,000 hours of deliberate practice by the time they were 19 or 20 years old. The Write some short stories and things like that, but mostly for me.
And I wanted, so I'm focused now on fiction writing just because I want to improve the craft in general. So I'll be able to tell better stories for the next book. So the one that I wrote and I put out, there are not that many stories. There are a lot of examples and analogies.
I wanted to do kind of like the teaching Carl Sagan style. I don't know if you're familiar with him. So he was the original cosmos and or Stephen Hawking. So the way they teach is mostly through analogies, not necessarily a lot of stories.
Now if you're Robert Green, who wrote the 48 laws of power, he's an amazing storyteller. Yes, they'll stories. But for me, I wasn't a great storyteller and I just focused on the material. It was so dense and there was so much to say that if I had included a lot of stories, it would have been a 600 page book.
So I took a different route, but I do want to get better just having my writing kind of more energetic. But I spent still a lot of time, a couple of years learning to write better because I knew that was going to be an important point for the book. So I finished a couple of drafts and then I read them. I say, no, I need to become a better writer.
So I set out to read more about writing, read a ton of books on it, practice more, and then re-roll the entire book because it needed to feel like more energetic. So it moves quickly and all these other parts. That is the craft of writing. It's not enough that you know your subject.
It's also how it's being packaged, right? How uh like do you have a like a coach or mentor that helps you? Is that a part of the process for your learning? Is that something you recommend?
Well, I do recommend it. I wish I had one. Um, in a way, there are different kinds of mentors that you can have. A book can be your mentor.
Like you have a discussion there with someone that is teaching you about something. So my favorite writers are my mentors. So I study how they, how they develop a chapter. Like how is like this train of thought being developed, how they organize their book and things like that.
And also you have your editor with, if you have a good one, it's gonna be a great help. Sometimes you need someone to tell you this sucks. It's horrible. And you have to do it again and you'll find it at the beginning.
And then it's like, maybe this person is onto something. Let's rewrite it and go a different route. So many times you have to do that and you have to edit and edit and edit. And sometimes it's painful because you have your darlings.
It's like Stephen King says, you got to kill your darlings. It feels like murdering children, but it must be done. So, I mean, you brought up something and this is what I'm curious about. Like when you're learning a new skill, sometimes you, you overcome like an obstacle, something like something's in your way or you're getting, you're having trouble like getting over that step, right?
Like maybe you've hit a plateau in what you've learned. You just can't seem to go the next step. Do you have any techniques for getting over that plateau? So here we combine both points because yes, a mentor is key for that.
You need someone that is going to look at your technique and say, there's something wrong here. Um, so there are different kinds of plateaus that you can hit. One is just a regular plateau, like consolidation plateau, which means you leveled up and it's going to take a while before that settles in and kind of ingrains in your neurology. Like, okay, now I know how to do this move.
And now I got better. And, but your body needs to adapt to that higher level. So that's normal. We all have consolidation plateaus.
Another one is the, um, sometimes it's called the okay plateau, but it's really the, I'm not trying hard enough plateau. It's when you stop pushing yourself. You're not getting better because you're not trying. And that happens a lot.
So in bodybuilding, they have this idea of the progressive overload. You try to lift heavier than last time. And yes, it's going to feel uncomfortable, but that's the point. You need to put your muscles through that discomfort and push harder.
Otherwise you'll stay in the same weight forever. So that's the other point. That's the other plateau is the okay plateau. You're not really trying to improve anymore.
You're not putting as much effort and we all know if we take an honest look at what we're doing, we know when we're slacking and then the third kind of plateau is the technique plateau is you're doing something with a specific technique and it can't take you any farther. So a good example is Tiger Woods. He redesigned his swing a couple of times and he said, I did it because the one I had, it was not going to take me what I needed to go. And he got worse before he got better.
So that's the hardest plateau to overcome because you're going to lose your gains for a while. You're going to be bad before you get better again. So it takes a lot of trust, trusting your team and your coach and yourself to say, this is not good enough. And I'm going to have to take a few steps back if I want to go even farther.
So that's the hard one and it takes a lot of humbleness. Um, ideally, you would have a coach that can tell you, look, you're, there's something wrong with your technique. That's why you can't get any farther. Weightlifting is a great example.
If it's something wrong with your technique, you're going to reach a plateau in how heavy you lift. And unless you change your technique and make it better, you can't lift heavier. Got you. Is there a, a structure you set?
So say someone's trying to learn a new skill. Is there, is there things that you put in place first? So before you just go ahead and you start to learn, is there like, you know, focus on, you know, make sure you have this in line, make sure you have this in line, make sure you have this person here. Like, is there planning that goes before the actual learning?
Does that make sense? So let's go, let's go through the entire process quickly. And if there's a part that you want me to dig deeper on, then we'll do that. So for me, the first step is exploring.
If you're going into a new skill, you first need to do some exploration. This is talking to people that are already doing the skill, practitioners, teachers. You want to know what you're getting yourself into because sometimes things look very glamorous on the outside and then when you go in, it's like, oh, I didn't know this is what was needed. Writing is a good example.
People imagine writing is you go out to a cabin and you're just like scribbling away and it's so good. No, writing is really rewriting. It's editing. That's where the craft comes in.
The first round, the writing where you're just frantically just going through the words and trying to get the whole thing done. That's nothing. That's a very small part of the process. The really hard part comes in rewriting, rewriting, rewriting, editing, cutting, improving.
And that's not always fun. Um, so for someone that is looking to go into writing, they need to know that beforehand. Same for me when I was taking the flight, uh flying lessons that we talked about earlier, I thought that flying was going to give me a sense of freedom and just being with nature and all this stuff. And that was replaced with careful planning, following the instructions and the weather analysis and all these things.
Like it's still fun, but that's not what I was looking for. On the opposite side, I always thought that I was not going to like surfing. I almost drowned twice as a kid. And so I have this acquired respect for water.
And then when I did it for the first time, I thought you're just catching waves and catching waves and catching waves. Like, no, you're just there in nature. You're just hanging out. And when you feel that wave coming, then you take it and you have that thrill.
So I had like all these components that I didn't know were part of surfing. To me, it was always like, you're just getting ready for that wave. No, sometimes you're just there. You're just feeling the ocean and getting ready and hanging out, being in nature.
So that part was a lot of fun. I was not expecting it. So first step is you need to explore. You need to know what you're getting yourself into.
Same with music. You see a musician on stage and like, I want to do that. Well, take a look at the amount of hours they spend on solitary practice. True.
Playing scales. Don't even sound nice. It's boring. It's annoying.
It's mechanical. So you need to be prepared for those things. So that's one explore. Then the first step to me is understanding.
So whatever thing you're trying to learn, the first thing is you need to understand what you're trying to learn. Now, the example that I use there is imagine you're learning jiu-jitsu and you're going to be learning an arm bar. So first you need the explanation. Like, what the hell am I trying to do?
Like, okay, so you, you're in full guard and then you're going to be doing this move and this comes first, this comes second, this comes third. Like, okay, and we're doing it in this sequence because of all these other contingencies. Like you wanna, um, keep your foot on the opponent's hip so he doesn't pass your guard. Like, oh, okay, got