Ep.547 Erin Trafford

Hi everyone and welcome back to another episode here of the Daily Grind. On today's episode we're sitting down with Erin Trafford. Erin is a digital story strategist specializing in helping entrepreneurs and small businesses find and tell their stories in a way that feels good and grows their bottom line. She is an award-winning journalist, blogger, consultant and strategist.

She owns Erin Trafford Inc, which has two arms. Erin Trafford.com, which is a coaching consulting company and Story Studio Network. Canada's first audio on-demand talk show network. She has worked with dozens of brands across North America, including Giant Tiger, Home Hardware and Staples Canada to create and develop content and influence our marketing campaigns.

She now fuels her joint passion working with new emerging and seasoned digital entrepreneurs to unleash their stories and the power in their content. Today's episode is absolutely amazing. You are all going to love it. Make sure you sit back with a pen piece of paper and enjoy today's episode with Erin Trafford.

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Now let's jump right into today's episode. Well, Aaron Trafford, welcome to the daily grind. How are you doing today? I'm so well.

Thanks for having me. Absolutely. Thanks so much for being here. What's, first of all, for people to be first introduced to you and Aaron, if you wouldn't mind giving a brief description as to who Aaron is and what it is that you do.

Oh my goodness, how much time do we have? So I am an award-winning lifelong broadcast journalist. That's kind of my first step into the world. I spent the first more than the first half of my life in radio and television in Canada.

But now I operate as a story strategist and executive producer. So I've had a bit of a storied career and it's been a bit of a roller coaster slash winding road to get here. But I had a realization a couple years ago that all roads lead to story in my life. So that's how I introduce myself now as a story strategist.

Very interesting. Kind of hitting the rewind button a little bit. How did you get into radio and broadcasting? I was born in a newsroom quite literally.

My well, not literally, but figuratively speaking. My dad has been in the news business actually since the year I was born. So he is a radio man by trade and he started his first radio station the year I was born. So I grew up cutting tape, sitting underneath desks during live news reads.

It's in my blood to the point where I don't even realize how much I know if that makes sense. And I did codify it. I went to school. I went to U of T.

I did an MA in journalism and specialized in radio at University of Western Ontario. I guess I'm on Western now. So I did that to get the piece of paper but very much realized as I was there that I didn't really need to do that. Interesting.

To have a career in radio and television, you don't need a certain degree to do that. I don't think so. I mean, I have in the company that I keep now, I mean, I definitely have hired interns and coordinators who have graduated J School and they're fabulous. Like they've shown initiative and they have certain developed skills.

But I don't necessarily think that to have what it takes to be a journalist or what it takes to be a host, a talk show host, you have to have that piece of paper. I think it's something that's inside of you that, I mean, for me, it's almost vocational. It's just, it's a vocation. It's what I would do for, I don't tell anybody I said this, but I'd do it for free every single day if I could, right?

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I'd do it for the host about the job. About radio or television or?

Yeah. But they say both. Just kind of the industry. Would you love about it?

What did I love about it? I mean, there was so, there's so much about it that I love. It's, it's just, it's a craft. It's, it's, it's getting up every day and asking these really big questions, like what matters most and then being able to succinctly and with clarity express that to, you know, hundreds of thousands of people every single day.

Yeah. And so, the first moment that, that it really hit me that when you're sitting in the booth, and it's the same as podcasting, right? Which is, I'm sure we're going to get into that because that's kind of where, where I have moved my business now. But the, when you're sitting there in the booth, you know, you're taught to be a bit afraid of your own voice and a bit afraid of like, what's the reaction going to be?

But when you're really thinking about what you're doing, you're talking to, I like to say, a room full of potentially a million one people's and I deliberately say one people's, right? Because you want to think you're only talking to one person and when you're doing that, you are expressing something so authentic and so meaningful. The power is that you're actually speaking to potentially hundreds of thousands of people at once. So I think that's what I like the most about it.

I mean, I could go on forever, but yeah. How does one prepare for that? Like, I mean, obviously now you're in the podcasting business, which is kind of similar, but obviously a little bit different than radio and TV. But when you're sitting there and you have those ideas or you have those stories and you're thinking, how do I articulate this in a way that's going to resonate with that person, those million and one person's people's people's people's.

Yeah. What are some things you do to prepare for that? And you know, this really comes back to the concept of knowing who that person is. So when I used to be in the booth and I still do it to this day, I will go through an exercise of closing my eyes like, you know, even if it's a fraction of a second before you hit go on the mic, you close your eyes and you think about who am I trying to talk to right now and you hold that vision as you proceed, right?

I have done some pretty crazy things in my broadcasting career. I've reported on murders. I've reported on breaking news. I've reported on elections.

I've interviewed prime ministers. I've done all of the things and I've hosted talk shows and morning shows and literally everything. I did it for 17 years. And no matter what, that was what it came back to is like, who is that one person who needs to hear me right now?

But when you think about that in the business context, because a lot of what I do now is help entrepreneurs that crack through that, it comes back to that classic, like who's your ICA and how well do you know them, not necessarily from a behavioral standpoint or a demographics standpoint, but from an emotional standpoint, because you use the word resonate. And I think that's, it's a word that we don't often sit with enough. The power of resonance is infinite. Like radio waves on a scientific level, a radio wave resonates forever.

Once you put something out on the radio, there's science that proves it goes out into like a black hole somewhere in the universe. It exists forever. So when you are able to create resonance, there's power there for someone else to receive that resonance. So I always say there has to be emotion in order to optimize that resonance.

So when you sit down to do a podcast interview like this, or when you sit down to, you know, do a workshop or something of the sort where you're on a mic and you might be nervous about talking to millions of people, it's who is that one person? What is their emotional need in this moment? And how can I best resonate with that through my storytelling? And when you can crack into that, it's almost like you just blow the lid off everything.

Oh, I mean, that's powerful information for sure for people listening. For yourself, how did you develop your ability to tell stories? Practice, practice, practice. I say the art of telling stories and the art of being on the air is a commitment.

Like you think about, you know, you think about artists actually, like Van Gogh, right? He was penniless. He only became rich and famous after he died because he spent his entire life, practice, practice, and committing to his, you know, neuroses, but also his art. So it's the same thing with being on the air.

So, you know, you're never going to hit it on the part the first time you do it. I remember my first newscast and I never want to relive that ever, ever, ever, ever. So, but when you get up and you do it 16 times a day, five days a week, sometimes six for the better part of 17 years, you eventually develop that muscle. So there is something to be said for doing it consistently.

I mean, you would know, like how many podcasts have you done now? How many hundreds have you done? You have a muscle? Yeah, you have a muscle.

All right, last year was the first 20 I did. I had to do shirtless. I was sweating so much. I was so nervous of people.

Like I'm like, but that's what happens too. So we talk about this a little bit is like that stress response in your body. It's a little bit of stage, right? And there's like this funny thing that you can look at where the body doesn't fully know the difference between being terrified and being excited.

So stage, right, is when you're kind of walking that line, same thing with when you're interviewing someone for the first time. And so your body will start to react like it's under a negative stress. So for some people, you know, clients, I work with the same thing. We joke about it.

We say, OK, I got this way, armpits. Something's happening to me right now. Others, you know, they'll have to go pee like right before they do an interview. But that's because it's their body processing something that we can turn into a moment of excitement instead of fear.

So there's a little bit of being committed to it and then also letting yourself just be excited about the idea of telling a story. Be excited about it. Don't be afraid of it. Yeah.

Yeah, 100%. And also it's like it's getting comfortable being uncomfortable in those situations. Like it's being comfortable sweating. It's being comfortable having to pee.

It's being able to push through those moments and like continuously do that. Yes. Yes. I mean, I can't tell you the number of times when I used to have my talk show and actually I remember this time vividly.

It was the top of the hour and we would throw to the news break and the newscaster would come in and do the break and I'd be sitting there getting ready and prep for the show and looking at the show notes thinking, OK, I've got three guests in the next hour. They were all on the phone and so on and so forth. I can see my producer like madly smashing the phone to get people on the line heading out of the news break so that we had the guests ready to go. And he's waving frantically.

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, nothing's happening. Nothing's happening. And I'm thinking, Oh, my God, OK, I'm going to be hung out to dry. I've got no guest and I've got an eight minute hole to fill.

OK, I had, you know, and it's you know, it's trial by fire, right? There's no way around it. Newscast ends. I can't just not show up.

So it was getting really OK with being that uncomfortable and knowing I had eight minutes to fill. And then here's the funny thing is that the next two guests, our phone lines, conked out. So I ended up carrying a 45 minute hour by myself talking about being uncomfortable. Yeah, it was.

Yeah. So you did this for 17 years. What made you decide to transition into what you're doing now? What made you decide to leave the industry?

Yeah. So I mean, it was it was 17 years. My first gig was on the air in Toronto for those of your Canadian listeners on AM 640, which is now no longer well, it is. It was at the time it was like a big fancy station.

I covered my first story I ever covered was when they would not let Eminem into Canada. Do you remember that happening? Not really. No, I don't.

OK, well, that happened. And I was like the young kid in the newsroom. So they're like, he's a he's a young kids person. Go cover this story.

Anyway, that was the first story I ever did. The reason I left was of my own volition. So in the background, as I had been growing my career in the newsroom, I also saw the writing on the wall in terms of news business, news corporations, the bean counters, those in the ivory towers who run them, not fully grasping what at the time was this digital wave or tsunami that was coming. So this was probably about eight years ago.

And I had off the side of my kitchen table, you know, as a newlywed in a 600 square foot apartment, started writing a lifestyle blog because I found I was a young woman, I was going to work every day. I was talking about murder, I was covering horrific things. I was getting hate mail because I was a woman. OK, it was like a hard place to be.

So I'd come home and I'd be like, OK, I need an outlet for something happy. So I just started writing about stuff that was happening in my life. And I grew this giant lifestyle blog. And I remember the day that my boss in the newsroom actually put two and two together because I didn't really tell anyone I was doing it.

And he was like, is this you? Because you're supposed to be this really fancy, you know, straight life news person, but I see you on the weekends talking about, you know, decorating your apartment. And he's like, this doesn't drive. And he told me I couldn't do it anymore.

Oh, wow. OK, that's short sighted because what he should have been asking me is how did you grow using online content, right? For sure. Rules apply to how to get people to read your stuff and engage with your stuff about something as boring as paint colors as how do we get our audience to engage with the news in a digital way.

And those conversations just were not happening. So for me, that was a bit of the writing on the wall. Fast forward a couple of years. Nothing changed.

So I decided to leave and oddly enough, at that point, I was making more money from my website than I was for my actual job. Wow. So right. So that's why I left and it took me, you know, I kind of admittedly fumbled around for a bit to figure out how I fit because I was this, you know, my team calls me a unicorn lovingly.

And so does my four year old, but, you know, I was this person who had all of these journalistic chops. I had done tons of things and I have raised, you know, got all the way to the glass ceiling in the news business. But I also had this really ground level view of the digital landscape and how to do business digitally. And it took me a while to figure out how to blend those two things together.

But that's kind of where I am now. And when you started the block, like the lifestyle block, did you have? Was there intention there for you to build something or was it just you sharing your stories and putting it online? Yep.

There was, I can safely say now eight years removed. There was zero intention. It was the most school of hard knocks. Try and fail and try again.

Learn as you go bootstrapped thing I ever did in my life. And I mean, I still own it. I have other people operating it now. It still makes me money and I won't let it go because it's just kind of this legacy part of me that reminds me where I came from.

And now as I operate as a strategist and I work with entrepreneurs, I work with large brands on how to leverage story in their own way, I can call on that experience and say, well, like from a very brass tax level, this is what this needs to look like in order for it to work. And here's how I know because I've done it. So what are some ways like what are some ways that as entrepreneurs, whether they're starting up or they have a solid business, but they know they need potentially other digital assets to help them in the future, whether it be to sell a business or grow their business, what are some ways that people can start to develop that story for themselves? Yeah, that's a really good question.

And I like that you say use the word develop because I think it is always developing. So there's kind of four, there's four buckets that I operate in with my clients. And it's actually kind of like a pie. So it's like a circle.

So it kind of goes around and around. And when I work with people, they can be anywhere on the spectrum, but regardless, we kind of touch all the parts. So first thing you got to do is really work on finding your story. So that comes back to that question that I said that I loved so much about being on the radio every day is like, what's that fundamental question is, why does this matter?

What matters here? And it's a lot about the relationship between who you are and who your person is, your people's are. That's how you're finding that story. And once you've dug in there and you figured out, okay, this is how I create meaning and I matter in this situation.

Cause really that's all story does is story is a way for our brains to create meaning and mattering, right? And when we do that, we create a memory and when we create a memory, activation happens, conversions happen. People remember you, they reach out, all of those things happen in business. So finding your story, the next thing you have to do is figure out what's the best way to tell it, right?

Are you going to be telling this? There's a hundred million thousand ways to tell a story. And that can include social media, platforms, podcasting, joint ventures, all of the things. So that's where you start to get strategic.

And then we hook that into, okay, what's your business objective and how do we amplify? So the four steps really are finding, telling, growing and amplifying. And when you look at those, all as a big pie, it's a beautiful thing. And when you start to break each individual piece down, that's actually where it gets fun.

Cause you start to see how you can, you can play with some of the pieces. Did that answer your question? I feel like I just like, kind of, yeah, I mean, it's a big, it's a big process, right? Like anything else, it's a process in order to get there.

Yeah. For yourself, I mean, what kind of businesses, what kind of entrepreneurs, what kind of people are you, do you work with now? Are you helping? Yeah.

So one of the most exciting things that I've been able to do because I, I have been able to leverage my connections in the Canadian broadcast world and in the entrepreneur world, um, is, you know, I, I want to start conversations. I want big, big thinkers who know they are brilliant, who know they have something to say, um, to come and work with me to help produce those stories. So really, I know that's a very broad kind of ICA, but I like to work with people who frankly are not so concerned with the tactics of content, but who are more concerned about having good conversations that move things forward. So part of what we're doing now, and I mean, choose a pandemic, the year of a pandemic, and also the year that I had a baby to also launch a new arm of my company.

You know, why not? Why not? It seems like one of those years for everyone. Yeah.

Do it all. Um, is it something that I saw was lacking in the podcasting space was the, the talk show energy, right? I had them in the world where talk shows are currency. Why?

Because you get to be in a place as a talk show guest or host, you get to be in a place where you don't have to learn how to do the things. You just show up and be brilliant in and of yourself. And so when I start, took a step back and I thought, what's the next thing that I want to do with my business and who do I want to attract into it? It's the kind of people that want that sort of conversation and that kind of opportunity.

So that's what Story Studio Network is. And, uh, it's kind of crazy that it took off without us even having an email address. So, you know, it shows that it was a, uh, uh, like it was a gap. And the marketplace, like people were looking for that.

Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. So I mean, that's, that's those are the kinds of conversations that I want to have now.

And I think when you talk about at the beginning, the full circle moment where it kind of took me five years to land back where I started, but, you know, the universe is a funny way of doing that to us, I think. Got you. Now, I'm going to ask you something that could be a little bit. I'm going to, it's going to be a circle back.

But if you had to do everything over and you didn't have those connections from your existing, like from your previous job, like you didn't, you're kind of starting from scratch, what would you do? What would be one of the first things you would do? You're like starting this business, you have over again. Yeah.

But without those connections. Oh, what a great question. What would I do? You know what?

I am a systems breaking quick start. I think I would still find a way to do it because for me, it's like it comes back to that vocation. It's a mission for me to change the landscape, change the conversation. And you know, if I can just harken back to that conversation I had with my old boss about how he didn't see past the end of his own nose and not her big media.

Mainstream media is a dinosaur. And I have always felt that. And I played in their playground because at the time that was the only place to play. And now you can tell a story in so many different ways that I think I'm so committed to the idea of giving voice and amplifying entrepreneurs, thought leaders, those kinds of people that I probably would have found a way, regardless.

I mean, it helps now that I have some really great, you know, sound engineers and other great talk show hosts who are willing to pitch in. It was easy to make those phone calls. But I think at the end of the day, it's still what I would be doing. Interesting.

Where I was kind of going with it on my aspect is like, I believe so much in connections and I'm sure you do too as the idea of building connections. And I think for people when they are trying to start something, because a lot of people may have an idea in their head of like, Oh, I want to start this side hustle or this blog or this thing, a lot of times they ignore how important building connections are. And I think this is like, at least for me in the space, podcasting space, that's been like the most eye opening thing for me is everything that I thought I knew I didn't. But the one thing that has been the most powerful is this idea of building connections and building up your network and having people to lean on and ask questions to.

I think that's a really good point because I think too, part of what me saying, I would have just gone out and done it anyway would have been me banging on proverbial doors. I would have found a way to make the friends to make it happen. Yeah, it's just maybe that's the reporter in me, right? Like I was just used to banging on people's doors and asking them to talk to me, right?

I'm a bit of a bit of a hound in that sense. So and I like what you said about connections because I think truly that's what I'm being called to do now with the business as it is is the reason I want to get more than one voice in the room is because I value so very much that network swirl that when you have three or four voices that do not compete, but rather act as positive. You know, they bounce off of each other in a positive way. You know, you just think about them sharing it with their own networks and then they're exposed to other networks and other networks.

It amplifies the swirl around the conversation instantly as soon as you get the right people around the table. And that's why I think it's been so powerful and it's been picked up so so quickly, frankly, faster than I can even get the website going that it's because of that power of connection. So as businesses are trying to put out content and share their story in a unique way, where should they be focusing their attention? Because I mean, this is a platform like there's voice, there's video, there's so many different social channels.

Where do you kind of see like when you help clients, where do you focus their attention on? Well, it comes back to like what do you want to say and who do you want to say it to? Right? I know that that's probably like the really basic answer.

But if I can be so bold and please support me in this because I know you will. I think if you are not considering an audio strategy as part of what you're doing at this point, you're missing out on a huge opportunity. I mean, the data is just incontrovertible that I was just reading it the other day. The 2021 data is out showing that, you know, 43% of people who listen to podcasts on the regular actually look forward to the hosts reading ads.

Like if you're a business and you're not capitalizing on that, like that's actually just leaving money on the table. It's leaving potential connections on the table. And then when you think about two, the average length of the American commute is something like 28 minutes and that it matches the average length of a podcast for sure. And that 39% of all podcast listeners listen to the entire episode.

So if you are not thinking about audio as a strategy for your internal communications, for your thought leadership, for doing something different, you're missing out. And the other thing, I mean, I'm sure you can also support this, is that the cost of doing audio versus video is the ROI is substantial. Right? You can do something on audio for like 30% of the cost of video.

And way less time consuming to video too. Way less time consuming. We just recorded four episodes yesterday of a new series that we're launching through the network in July. We did four episodes in about two hours and we had four people at the table.

So when you have the right production team and the right format, it doesn't have to take a lot of time. It doesn't. Outside of like, so when you're saying to integrate audio into a strategy for a company, is it something as simple that someone could do is like using potentially their video content and just kind of converting that over into audio? Or do you see it as like a separate entity?

I mean, I always joke about, I don't know if you do watch the sports, you know, Bob Cowen used to do that. Like I'd always joke and be like, oh, he's doing radio on a TV, right? He's going to do this crossover. And he'd wear the sunglasses.

And anyway, there is a joke in the industry that there should not be crossover because TV people are no good at audio and audio people are never dressed for TV. Right. That's the joke. So I don't recommend doing that as a long term strategy because you're talking to different people and because audio is so very intimate.

And what the research shows and the neurology shows that you can make a faster connection with someone when you speak directly in their ear than when you then when you look them in the eye. So I would say if you have the bandwidth to consider them as two separate strategies. It's okay to do some crossover every once in a while, but they should be treated as separate. Do you see any trends like maybe you don't?

So you can say you don't, but do you see any trends and kind of wear audio with this space maybe going in a couple of years? Like you see it changing in certain ways? Yeah. I see it changing in the sense that it's going to have rapid growth.

So one of the other really cool stats, like I started to talk about the average length of the commute, but the data shows too. And this is why I immediately went upstairs from my office and asked my husband to buy me a new car because of this. But the average age of the North American vehicle, we tend to keep our cars for like six or seven years on average, right? So if we're in 2001 right now, that means that the majority of the models that we're driving around on the streets is about a 2015 model.

Back then, our cars weren't smart or not all of them, right? The luxury vehicles may have been on top of the lines work, but the majority of our cars didn't have the built-in interface with a Spotify with the Apple and all that. Sure. Fast forward to now, especially post-pandemic, when a bunch of people are going to go out and decide they want a fancy car to do their new commute, we're going to see this turnover, wherever we car is going to have the ability to instantly connect to your Spotify playlist or your Apple or your favorite podcast.

And that again is just another indicator of why you need to have an audio strategy. A hundred percent. A hundred percent. And you look at it like you had mentioned it.

And why I need a new car. Tell my husband. Yeah, we all need new cars. We all need new cars.

I'll take one. But it also shows like you had mentioned advertisers and the amount of money being thrown in the audio space right now is insane. And the amount of money that's going to be thrown in five years is going to make this look so small. Yes.

And especially when you consider that how much it costs to create a TV commercial or an online video commercial that on YouTube or any of those others, you've got the skip over the ad button. Yeah. And the data shows, podcast listeners don't do that. They just don't.

They listen. So when you think about the return on ad spend, you're going to get, I think you're going to see nothing but increase in opportunity in this space. A hundred percent. Aaron, for people kind of wanting to learn more about you and your story and what you do and how you help companies, where's the best place people can do that?

Yeah, you can just head to my website, errantrafford.com and feel free to connect with me on LinkedIn. I'm fairly active over there. And if you like sort of the candid, no makeup, Aaron, on the weekends with her kids, you can find me on Instagram as well. Awesome.

I'll share all those links and kind of how we're going to end the show is I'll give you an opportunity here to end the show off with one, one thought, one comment or one thought, just something that you want someone to really drive home and take home with them today. I think the thought that I want you to consider is that, you know, conversations matter and your story matters. And when you're sitting there thinking, well, I don't have a story to tell. You absolutely do.

Everybody does. It's just a matter of finding the clarity and the confidence to pull it out of you in the right way. And that will make you feel more passionate about it. It'll make you feel more authentic.

It's not going to feel as challenging. So there's just, there's so much opportunity to showcase your story. And I would invite everybody just to lean into that and make it a practice every single day so that it's fun. I mean, yeah, that's what it's all about.

If you're not having fun, you're doing it wrong. 100%. Couldn't agree more. Aaron, I want to thank you so much for taking time out of your schedule.

I'm jealous you're jumping to the beach right now. I'm jumping in the rain. Thank you so much for jumping on the show. Really appreciate it.

Thanks, Val. And there you have it for today's interview. Everyone with Aaron Trafford. Thank you so much to Aaron for sharing her wisdom and story with us on the podcast today.

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No hard feelings. Every piece of feedback is absolutely amazing. Again, thank you so much for listening. We'll be back next week with another interview until then everyone always remember to keep on.