Ep207: Jimmy Watkins (Running Punks)

Try to imagine all life as you know it's stopping instantaneously and every molecule in your body exploding at the speed of light. Total Protonic Reversal. Protonic Reversal. Protonic Reversal. With your host, Colvin Neutron. Broadcasting from a sequel underground lair in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. A gigantic middle finger doing everything that was rock about music, rock and roll, and quarter power. The thing is, though, if you don't laugh, you're going to be the one to carry the screen shop and make it. Hold it, hold it, hold it, hold it. Confidence of a hero or a fool doesn't make a certain wish. Could not be more professional. It's all that work. I choose to go my life too.

That's like a science thing, right? I very wisely decided to house a cliff bar immediately before speaking. I don't know why I thought that was a good idea. I might be trying to practice my health. Bonafides or bonafides? Bonafides, I think. Because we have the paragon of punk rock health. I'm calling you that right now. Mr. Jimmy Watkins of Running Punks.

Very, very excited to have you on, man. This is a great honor. Thank you very much. No, I'm so excited to be on here. I've always wanted to be on here. Really? Yeah, generally. But then again, set achievable goals, right? Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So I want you to, if you may, explain a little bit about the whole running punks phenomenon. This started as an outgrowth of literally just you running. And for people that don't know, you have a background. You have a background as an actual runner. So you're not just...

Your average dilettante, necessarily. You're a very qualified dilettante. But at one point, you were doing this in a more serious manner, and you picked it back up. And what you had is a situation where you were listening to music, as one does, and very exuberant about listening to said music. And that kind of grew into trying different records out and things, right? Is this an astute or at least accurate summation of the Running Punks thing as far as you, Jimmy, and what it... Yes, it is spot on.

That is spot on. It started as a way just to listen to albums that I should have listened to, but I've never listened to. It was a way to do them again without being sat at home embarrassed about the whole thing I thought I'd share with the world. And one of the things I like, the one I remember, it's going to be like, wow, really? You had never really experienced the Dead Kennedys before. Yeah, I know. I know, never. Especially being from the Bay Area, it's like, how is that possible? But when you think about it, it's like, okay, different country, people get into punk rock in different ways, et cetera, et cetera. But yeah, the sheer...

the sheer joy that you're having like hearing you know East Bay Ray's guitar you know the evil surf guitar going and like uh you know I was like oh this is wonderful and you know it just correlated that with the weirdness of it's a dude literally running like this is internet gold man this is internet gold I'm telling you yeah it's um yeah every time I put one together honestly I look at it and I just think I can't put that online because it just makes no sense you can't even hear the music it's just me running it's just your reactions to the music exactly that's the thing that's so amazing about it because and what it seems to do seems to attract people that know the source material And the nobodies you're listening to are like, okay, see how he reacts to this one. But yeah, you just get to see a dude running and kind of yelling over the music, his reaction, right? Yeah, I figured like if I was watching TV and someone was making a bacon sandwich on TV, my mouth would water and I couldn't even smell the bacon or taste it. So I try and do that with music while running. I try and cook a bacon sandwich with my mind and put it in your mouth so you can taste it. That's what I try and do. I figure like if I can get the excitement of an album across while I'm running and you can't hear it, then it's a good album. It must be. Absolutely. And it's based off of the larger phenomenon also of...

And just most of, not just running culture, but athletic culture, is not geared towards those of us that come from weirder backgrounds or weird music, right? So I find that so interesting, even at its gestation, like, oh, that's a good idea. Like, it's like a group of people that, you know, they're not going to listen to Electroclash or Electroclash, what is this, 2004? You know, they're not going to be listening to pop music necessarily. I can't even think of a good reference. But they're going to listen to something like maybe a little more aggressive, a little more weird, because that's what they get excited about. That's what they're going to be excited about to do this action to.

I've kind of seen that on a lower level of like, hey, what songs do you guys like doing a run to? Try this Flipper song. I was like, oh, no, the BPM's too slow. But I'd never seen it quantified in such a way that Flipper would be like a Mosey. That would be like Mosey Puss. That's why Flipper came to mind. I'm off my game tonight. But the idea that you're gathering people together with a similar interest and a similar background to do this, it's something where...

that's the good side of social media at this point, right? Yeah, totally, totally. So was it just like, hey, I want to do this, and there's other people that want to do this? How did that come together? Was it like, ah, let's make a group, we're getting, you know, it's bigger than a text chain, smaller than a movement. It starts, well, Running Punk Start is just me and a friend from school, and we ran past each other during the half marathon last year. Kind of didn't realize that either of us were running again, so... This is like a setup for a rom-com, by the way. Yeah, 100%, 100%, 100%. I used to sing in the band he played drums in, and we high-fived them, we actually connected, and then we both...

kind of laughing like, that's the most in time we've ever been. If only the band was that closely. Yeah, it was proper one of those. And we just started texting each other after the race and just saying, well done, you were looking well, you were looking healthy. And we just thought, let's just get together and call ourselves the Running Punks. That was it. That's all it was going to be. Just me and you, we'll do this race. Yeah, we'll get some cool t-shirts made. It's like a proper indie band. Yeah, exactly. Get a logo together, it'll be a whole thing. Yeah, I wasn't doing any music. I thought, you know what I miss most about music? T-shirts. I just miss the t-shirts.

Let's just make a bunch of t-shirts for me and you and we'll just see each other when we're racing. So we started it, just the two of us. Stuff went online and people just started connecting, which is, you know, like we've spent forever trying to write songs that people like and nobody really liked them. The minute we say sweaty running videos, everyone's all over it. As long as the music can't be heard and it's just a dude running, then it's okay. That's acceptable. That's thousands of views. Hey, check out this song that I put my heart and soul into and I would really like you to hear 12 views. Yeah, exactly. One comment and it's your mom. And it's like, oh, don't even stop. Yeah, it cost me like £3,000 to make this one song and nobody likes it. But I went for a run in £20, well, a couple of dollar player trainers and the whole world has seen it. So we could fill a music venue now. We could fill a decent-sized music venue, which is crazy.

Yeah, that's wild to me. I mean, but again, it totally makes sense, right? Because if you think about the fact that everyone's getting older, you know, people whose musical taste doesn't extend beyond the mainstream also are getting older, and you want to stay in shape. You don't want to just keep packing on the pounds, and, you know, you want to do something active. And if you do something active where it also pairs with one of your interests, whether you're listening to new music or whether you're listening to something that, you know, just gives you joy, it makes sense. It makes sense in a way that...

oh yeah, like, why hasn't someone done that before? But by the same token, yeah, the rampant absurdity of the reviews, I think, is the thing that takes it over the top. Yeah, it's kind of crazy that no one's done it, and there's definitely nobody else doing it, so I've invented something, which is quite odd, because we've worked it out to make, like, we've worked out how to take nitrogen out of the air. We've pretty much done everything. Nobody has run... How can you invent anything, right? I mean... I know, what's left to invent? The run-in review, that's the only thing that's left to invent, and I did it. It was, you know what, it was so bizarre, like...

You must know it's like being creative when an idea pops into your head. And you just think, that idea has never even ended in my own head before, so I'm already excited about it. Right, right. Then it's just, it lives there for a while. And it was just in my head for a while. I was just thinking, what? Like, every time I entered my head, I thought, no, this is silly. But what if I ran and filmed myself, listened to an album for the first time? And then I thought, I'm going to do it. I'm going to start with Spice Girls. You talked about the Spice Girls? Really? I didn't see the first one, apparently. Yeah, yeah. Spice Girls was the first one in an orange Hawaiian shirt, just running around.

Had you ever, I mean, you must have heard them like in a shopping mall or something, right? I mean, back in the day, like, so you were at least had some cursory familiarity. I tell you, you just reminded me that before that record came out, I was part of a focus group where they played the Spice Girls at us. And I chose my words carefully when I say at us. And we had to give our reactions of like which one we favored, like which of the Spice Girls we liked the best, which ones, you know, what, if we believe their message, like I can't remember at the time. And I didn't, I was like, I don't, I don't know. Is this an English thing? I understand what this is.

yeah and i don't even remember like i would have recorded or something if i had known because then next thing you know like six months later or something the biggest thing in the world and i'm like is that what the way to the focus group for like i didn't see anything misogynistic i mean geez it's so it's so weird that they would like focus group that and like why are they asking which of these girls i think is the most talented which is the prettiest like these are these are gross questions you know i don't know i listen to freaking you know shellac like why are you asking me it's so weird with spice girls like There seemed to be no meaning to the instruments on the songs. It could be played on those toy kid instruments. It doesn't matter. It just did not matter. It was out of everything I've done. It's madder than Battle Surfers. If you think about it in terms of the music that you listen to and forget what they became as a band, it's absolutely crazy. It doesn't make any sense at all. It was kind of exciting. Well, and it's interesting also because they came at the last vestige of having to actually have done something to be famous rather than just be famous for famous. I mean, don't get me wrong. For the most part, they're...

they're they're just famous for being famous or you know they're they're in the gossip magazines because of you know what they're doing who they're married to like what who are they dating etc etc now but there was that that last moment of just oh this is the thing they did this thing and then everyone's now reacting to them not to the thing but it was a one of the last times in our modern history we could even do that because now now you have things like what exactly is kim kardashian famous for uh who knows yeah yeah everyone knows who she is though yeah yeah definitely definitely Anyway, so Spice Girls was the first one. Was that a suggestion, or was it just like, I'm going to go for the thing you wouldn't expect this to be? Well, because it was my first one, I thought I'd start on debut albums. So I Googled greatest debut albums ever, and I just picked the top four, and it was like...

Okay, so Spice Girls was one of them, right? Yeah, I should have picked a better website. The Beatles? Spice Girls? I mean, like, what kind of list is this, Jenny? What kind of detail were you going into? I just went for the most shocking list. I saw that, and I thought, yeah, that's the one I'm starting with. I thought no one is going to pick a Spice Girls anyway. Was it The Sun's best debut album? Yeah, probably. I fell for the clickbait. I fell for the clickbait. I think it was the best Spice Girls debut album. That's a very short list, actually. Yeah, yeah. That's why you won. We stand by it. Our journalistic integrity stands. Yeah.

So that was the first one. Do you remember what the other number was the best debut? Was it like television? The Ramones? Spice Girls? Guns N' Roses were on there. I remember Guns N' Roses were on there. I've never even heard of Guns N' Roses album though, so that's another one I need to do.

Yeah, I know. The first one, I have many... See, the problem with Guns N' Roses is it always starts a discussion about Guns N' Roses and the relative merits of Guns N' Roses, which is a conversation I don't care to be in. But many people favor that first record. And that would be an interesting choice because it's very popular, but also because of the fact that people want to discuss Guns N' Roses whenever there's an opinion on Guns N' Roses. It's guaranteed to be clickable? Clickable, sure.

Is that what you're saying in the business? I don't know. My show's very unsuccessful. I don't know. Do you know what? It's not very clickable as it turns out. I mean, more clickable than it used to be. The stuff that becomes popular or generates the most debate always surprises me. So like Dead Kennedys was a good example. I always thought Dead Kennedys, I just thought that they would have nothing new to offer. I just thought I've heard the name so many times. I feel like I've listened to the band and I've heard so much other stuff compared to Dead Kennedys. I feel like I've already heard them. And when I did that run, that was kind of the one that like Lauren Laverne, she's a big DJ over here. She picked up on that.

And that's the one that honestly just took Running Punk to another level. After everything I did, there was a Dead Kennedys one that so many people were like, I can't believe you never heard them before. Well, exactly, because people want to be like, they want to say that, but how have you not heard the Dead Kennedys? Yeah, I'm obsessed with them. I'm obsessed with them. I will actually admit that is the first thing I thought. I'm like, fucking hell, he hasn't heard the Dead Kennedys? How? But again, I'm from the Bay Area. It's like, they were like the band. It would be like if you were, you know, if someone from New York was like, I've never heard of the Ramones. Really? You've never heard of the Ramones? Yeah.

Well, I did the Ramones run. I ran to the Ramones because I'd never heard... I'd heard a few songs, but I'd never heard a full album. You probably heard I'd want to be sedated or Pet Sematary or something. But yeah, that first record is just amazing. All hits. Yeah, I think that's the problem. I just think... I don't know, maybe it's my age or just how I grew up listening to music, but I just hadn't listened to a lot of albums. It was all about kind of... Yeah, are you sure you're a musician, sir? No, I'm not. I'm definitely not. I'm definitely not. Just, you know, tomorrow morning, I'm running to...

Black Sabbath. I've never heard a Black Sabbath album. I've never heard a Black Sabbath album. Honestly, I'm not... I'm going to apply the correct colloquialism. Are you taking the piss now, sir? No, I'm not. I'm not. You've never heard Black Sabbath. Like, any Black Sabbath song, or you've never heard a full record? I know... This is how it happens, right? I know Paranoid. I know Paranoid, and I'm like, whatever. I'm taking or leaving. I'm not fussed on it. Warpigs, maybe you heard it. I mean, that's in, like, Iron Man or something, right? So it's all over the place. Yeah, it's weird, though, because...

I did a playlist run the other day because so many people asked me to run to certain songs. I was like, I'll do a playlist. So I did my first playlist run and I ran to a band called Spirit of the Drift. And there was one song and I was just like, oh my God, I'm loving these riffs. I'm loving the solos. A solo comes back at the end with a wah on it. I haven't even had a wah for years. I was like, this is blowing my mind. Bring a solo back but with a wah pedal. Yeah. Yeah. And people were messaging me. People were just saying,

They were like, dude, that's a Black Sabbath song. That's a cover version. So the Spirit of Drift song was a Black Sabbath cover. Yeah, I was like, are you kidding? I had no idea. So I let slip then on social media that I never heard a Black Sabbath album. So I'm doing it tomorrow. I'm doing Master of Reality. Oh, that's a good one. Wait, do you want no spoilers? No, go for it. Spoiler for me. That one starts pretty awesomely because it starts off with like, I did the bong thing. For those only listening in on the video, I mimed doing a bong hit.

implying that the members of Spirit Adrift may, in fact, partake of certain substances. Probably. So, yeah, the way it starts off is, believe it or not, it's a reference to weed. Yeah, it's brilliant. Coughing. Oh, no, it starts with a cough. And then you have, like, one of the coolest riffs in the history of rock and roll that comes immediately afterwards. But it's also referenced in a Butthole Surfer song.

That's, I know, because I did Locust abortion technician. Oh, okay, cool. So then you're working yourself backwards then. Okay, all right, all right. Yeah, I'm like the, who's that dude who grows up backwards? Benjamin Button. I'm like him of rock. Benjamin Button of rock and roll. I'm discovering rock backwards. So yeah, everyone's like, oh yeah, of course, that Butthole Surfer song has that Sabbath riff. I was like, just blank face, just looking at my forehead. And it's, so the song's called Sweet Leaf, and the Butthole Surfer song is called Sweat Loaf.

Which is classic butthole surfersism, right? But yeah, you're going to recognize the riff. It's just that, like, it's like the butthole surfers version is faster and doesn't have the, and if you see your mother this week, make sure to tell her, Satan, Satan, Satan, because I thought you were giddy. They were not quite enough for that with Ozzy and the gang. They were real high.

But it's good. Master of Reality is great. I think Children of the Grave is going to be a hell of a running song. I think that's the one where you're going to find a good stride on that one. That's the second song, isn't it? Second or third. But there's a really cool drum part, but there's also some overdub, like there's some, you didn't do that live, kind of like overdub Tom stuff. But it really works in a way that normally I'd be like, come on. You know when I hear that, it's like, what are you, Genesis?

I mean, don't get me wrong, there's a time, there's a place for Genesis, but like, uh, no Dispute or Gabriel, but it was like, really? But then it was like, oh no, that actually works, that actually makes the song better. And it definitely is a good, like, aggressive doing stuff kind of song. So, alright, Wax Abbott, huh, Master of Reality, yeah, Master of Reality, that's one of the great ones, just like, all of the first six of them, frankly, they're all pretty solid. Yeah, I put the four most recommended ones that people have sent me, and bizarrely, the debut album wasn't on there. It's a really good record, and the opening track, which follows the great tradition of being called the name of the band and the name of the record, which I always, for some reason, always think of Hocus Pocus by Focus, which isn't the actual thing, but it's close enough that it's hilarious to me, just because those are hilarious words to say. But that's it. I don't think it'd be a very good album to run to. It's more... Yeah. Because that's still... They're showing a little more of their blues influence, and title track's freaking awesome, but it's something to like...

Brood 2 or like Vampire Walk 2 or something. I don't know. I can do that. I can do that. Where's that channel? Is that Zyark New Competitor? I'll do a Halloween special for you. I'll do a zombie walk or something. They only do Bauhaus as it turns out. Yeah, and Chatbox is chiming in on this that the overdub Tom's actually do very much rule and that also you don't need anything post-Ozzy. And this is very contentious among some people because there are some big DO fans. Yeah. I consider that pretty much a different band though. And also Never Say Die and... God, the other one. Technical Ecstasy. Terrible.

Don't even, don't. Okay. Not only don't run to them, like, cleanse it with flame. Run away. Just, they're awful. Just don't even listen to them, yeah. Okay. But the first six, solid. Even Sabotage, which is, which is weird. Like, it's a weird record. And it sounds like, it's definitely, it's definitely a cocaine record, for sure. And you can tell. And like, the guitar amps change. Like, I think he's using a different kind of laney. So the sound, but it's, it's really good. Sabotage is pretty rock solid. But yeah. All right. Cool. Never say die technically. Let's see. Skip them. Skip them. Okay. I would rather hear you do Dio, frankly. But anyway. Yeah? Yeah. Well, that could be interesting. Heaven and hell.

Heaven and Hell was on the list. It was on the floor. I didn't even know that was Dio singing. Yeah, Heaven and Hell was on there, and a few people were like, mate, you should just listen to that one. It's better than with them Aussie singing. Yeah, you always get one son of a bitch that comes into the thread and was like, oh, actually, Dio's way better than Aussie Sabbath. Get the fuck out of here. Are you still here? Get out of here. Come on. Come on, man. Just cut that out. Oh, yeah, Symptom of the Universe. Symptom of the Universe is like, that's a... I mean, there's a reason why Helmets covered it.

Melvin's covered it. You know, it's been a very heavily, I think, except for probably. I don't even know if that's true, but it sounds true, so I'm just going to go and run with it. See what I did there? Everybody's covered. So I can't believe many people have covered them. Are they covered more than Bob Dylan's songs, do you reckon?

Yeah, I mean, because I feel like, well, that's a good question, because there's always going to be some bar band that's going to be like, we're going to get political now for a minute, we're playing Warpix. But if you're talking about good covers, well, that's the thing. Other than Hendrix, can you think of a good Dylan cover? No, no. Yeah, I can't think of that. The Animals, House of the Rising Sun, that's kind of, I don't know, it's a better version than his. Did he do it? No, he didn't.

I don't think that's his song. That's like a traditional song. I mean, it's also one of those things that's kind of you're riding the lion, right? And I think there's a decent Faith No More cover of Warpigs, but it pretty much sounds like the original. Steel Pole Bathtub is the only allowable version of Paranoid. And it's on a seven-inch.

And the other side of it is a cheap trick cover. It's Surrender. So it's Paranoia on one side and Surrender on the other. And they're both like, okay, this may be the only allowable cover by either of our band because this is fantastic. Yeah. But I'm trying to think of actually good Sabbath covers and kind of drawing a blank. Which isn't to say they haven't been done because there's lots of bands who are like, hey, we're going to play this song. And it sounds exactly like it's like a less good version of the song you like. Okay, cool. I get that feeling about them. It's like you don't really cover a Sabbath song. You just play it. You just re-record it. Exactly. How are you going to do this better? It's like they invented not one, but at least two or three genres.

Yeah, yeah, totally, yeah. So this one tomorrow is, I've had lots of messages saying this is the start of Stoner Rock. Is that right? Yes. So I, much in the same way that, and I've given Paho grief that, you know, Slint is definitely responsible for a lot of very terrible music. But also good music as well, you know, just by the nature of what they influenced. Yeah. You know, and Sabbath is the same way. Like, so as much as it's like, oh yeah, you know, without Sabbath there wouldn't be Flipper and there wouldn't be Melvins, and without Sabbath there wouldn't be this band, that band, that band. But it's also like, oh, there's so many middling just, like, bands with bong in the name.

and it's like, oh, you're doing the thing, huh? Just doing that hacky, like in the same way that they're just, you know, crabby Rolling Stones rip-offs, they're just crabby, it's like, why don't you rip off Credence? You know, everyone goes off the stones. But I digress, yeah. I wasn't going to name names, Mark, but Bongzilla, yes. Bongzilla. Oh, come on, be it. I mean, if you're into that thing, it doesn't push it forward. They don't add anything to it, you know what I mean? Whereas there are bands like Doom bands that do. So yeah, like Stoner Rock, Doom, you know, God, this is not even an episode of Sound Opinions, isn't it? Jesus.

There's a bunch of genres that Sabbath basically single-handedly created. And it's worth mentioning. They were into the Beatles and Blues. And they just did it the way that they wanted to do it. And it came out sounding like how it sounds, and it's awesome. It'll be interesting to hear your opinion on that record, just by nature of not having that context. In the same way, if you've ever seen the...

the reaction videos where it's like oh this dude's never heard acdc and here's acdc for the first time and oh great and for me and some people are like oh it's exploitive it's racist etc etc and i'm like well i'm just excited for someone to hear something awesome like that for the first time and see like what is that you know if you have no frame of reference what does that sound like and that's why it's interesting because i'm someone that i don't get i don't feel oh you've never heard of such and such whatever i'm more like oh you haven't heard that cool you're in for a neat ride like you're gonna really dig this that's where i'm yeah yeah yeah totally and that's how that's how i feel about it is When is something... Like, I get so excited. I'm so excited about liking Black Sabbath tomorrow that I can just spend weeks listening to Black Sabbath albums. Oh, yeah. And people have strong opinions about all of them. Yeah. Oh, so, sorry to interrupt. But there's that song, Changes, which I thought was the... When I was a kid, a young rocker, I was like, what's this ballad BS? This is terrible. But then you hear Charles Bradley do it, the soul singer. And it's like, oh, my God, that's a beautiful song. That song is amazing. Yeah, right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, that's actually a really good song. I was being a dick. Sorry.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I really hope I like it, because there's a lot of cool Black Sabbath merch. You're going to have a lot of very angry fans if you don't. I know. Yeah, yeah. Well, no, I didn't like Glass Joe, and I had a lot of angry fans because I didn't like Glass Joe. And that was a weird one, because I said I didn't like it because it sounded like other stuff, and people were like, it sounds like stuff that ripped off Glass Joe. You've got it wrong. Oh, gotcha. Because you were coming at it from the perspective of... Okay, gotcha. So you're thinking of the things that were influenced by that.

Yeah, my timeline for that band is I have no idea where they come in and what came after. So I was just wondering, it sounds like this. I don't like it. It sounds like they're ripping off this band. And people were like, mate, that band came five years after Glass Show. Stop doing these. Stop doing these. Stick to classic rock. Oh, man, I could be really brutal and mean right now, but I'm not going to. Don't do it. Don't do it. I can't do it. I got people listening to this. I got to go back to bed after this. I can't be lying in bed worried about you. You're going to be lying on this dick. First of all, how dare you? Secondly, yeah. So when I think about...

like these iconic records, things like that. In fact, okay, the Master of Reality, that's a big one. That's going to be like, oh man. Because you're going to get people in that aren't just folks that, like it's going to be a different crowd than like the Dead Kennedys. And I love the Dead Kennedys, but the Dead Kennedys, this motherfucker's never heard of the Dead Kennedys, are you kidding me? But like when you get someone like Sabbath, you're going to get a whole, you're going to boomers in there. They're going to like figure out how to log in and you know, type in all caps comment at you. Yes, that was my favorite. I love it when I do like a

all caps comment but they put commas in there it just looks so weird all caps but with punctuation yeah yeah it's like you're shouting you're shouting but you're still taking time to breathe you're amazing well done well done for controlling your anger i've wound up some of my dad's friends on facebook and i've gotten it and that started to happen and it's you know it's almost like like max headroom like derezzing where you can like see the like see the anger as they yeah yeah i might i might just this i might just hate black Sabbath on purpose tomorrow just for a fun day on twitter Kind of sounds like a flipper ripoff and then just, you know, close the computer, don't look at the comments and like, you know, come back a day later. Leave it, leave it. Yeah. So, so the, the, um, so yeah, but when I think of iconic records, I think of like things like, and the Minutemen were brought up in the chat box. I was actually thinking, are you a Minutemen fan? Do you know Minutemen? I've never heard a Minutemen album. No, I know one song. I know they really famous song from Jackass. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a great tune. I know, I know that and I know Jack, the drummer in Future Left, is a massive fan and he used to try and get me to listen to them all the time and I just never did. So, I need to do a Minutemen record, definitely. Well,

Well, Minute Man is a superhero from that Ben Affleck vehicle that is... I forget what it's called. Tom Waits is in it, too. But he keeps saying, no, it's Minute Man, not Minute Man. Because these people look at the name. What's the name of that movie? Is it The Devil? Oh, God. It's very funny. I think it's Ben Affleck. I don't even remember. This is a terrible reference. But Tom Waits is in it, and he's the guy that outfits the superhero. No, not Ben Affleck. I'm thinking of... What the hell is that guy's name? Nobody cares. Anyway, The Minute Man. The thing about them is all their songs are very short.

So they tend to be very energetic, but that was brought up in the chat box because, like, A Changes by Black Sabbath is meant to be, like, an album breaker. Like, it's in between some big riff rockers and it's basically, like, a kind of down-tempered ballad. And there's some kind of... There's some amazing songs on Double Nickels on the Dime, which is a double record. And even though all the songs are relatively short, there's ones that are just, like, them playing acoustics and stuff. But they're great. They're really good songs. If you've never heard it, it's the kind of thing that, like, you come out of the other side a little different, right? Like, you'll get why. But I've also, by the same token, known people that have dived into Double Nickels on the Dime, and they're like, hmm, sounds like the Red Hot Chili Peppers. And I'm like, no way. No. I was like, get out of my sight. Don't ever say that to me again.

Yeah. So that's, that's, that's a thing where, okay, you know, not everyone's going to experience it the same way. So that could be something where I love it. You know, I think it's great. And I, you know, it's very informative for me, even though I didn't hear it till the, Oh, I was thinking of the movie Mystery Men, by the way, is that's a movie that I'm thinking of. It's not that great. It's fine. I don't think you need to. I don't think you need to. It's kind of funny. Jane Garofalo's in it. She's, she's rad. She's got a, her dead dad's skull and a bowling ball. And that's a superhero. Is it like, you can throw it, it flies around the room.

Ben Stiller, not Ben Affleck. Oh, Ben Stiller, yeah. Ben Stiller. He's very, yeah, his name is, well, it's not him, but there's another guy that's like, if I've been a man, no, my new man, whatever, it doesn't matter. So when you talk about records that you're going to do, do you think most of it's coming in now from suggestions, or is it something where you still have a long list of the stuff you've, oh, I've been meaning to check this out?

I've got a long list written down, and some of the stuff on it is mind-blowing. Like, I'm quite nervous about coming forward about it, but I've never heard it. God, lay it on me. There's Pixies on it. Wow, okay, yeah. You're going to get a lot of people that are very worked up about that. Yeah, Faith No More. Never heard of Faith No More album. But I've heard, like, Tomahawk and Mr. Bungle, which is crazy. I've heard everything else, but I haven't heard Faith No More. You've heard all the weirder, more esoteric stuff. You just haven't heard the band. Everyone knows them. Okay, all right.

Yeah. And then there's like silly ones then. There's like Queen. I've never really listened to Queen album. Deep Purple. Deep Purple and everything. Deep Purple and Machine Head, that's a killer record. And that's actually a record I didn't even get into. I knew the hits, you know, but later on I was like, oh man, Highway Star, this rips. That's one of the only guitar solos I've ever learned. I've never been learning guitar solos, but I was like, I'm going to learn.

this guitar solo, because it's freaking awesome. And that's the thing, there's no functional reason to do that. Like, I'm not going to go play, you know, freaking Highway Star. But, if called upon to do so, that's one of, like, three solos I know. The only solo I've learned is the one from Teenage Kicks. You know, I mean, not bad. Like, it serves a song, right? Oh, I know the solo for I Wanna Be Sedated. Yeah. Cinnamon Girl, when you're young, that's one note as well. I can play that.

I can play that. I can't really play solos though. I'm really bad at solos. I'm actually really bad at guitar. Really bad. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know how I've played in bands. Which is amazing because you've been in...

in big bands and gone on tour before so that's that's like a lifestyle choice definitely was definitely yeah should have stuck to the running i was good at that that would be your dismissive uh shark sandwich review like in spinal tap where there's his two-word review shit sandwich should have stuck to running and then and then you get to come back and have like running punks be like way bigger than uh bigger bodega or uh exactly that won't be before yeah that won't be hard that won't be hard with bigger bodegas definitely Definitely. We just play in the same venue every three months to the same people. Yeah. How'd that work out? Pretty well? Should've stuck it running? Yeah, should've stuck it running. Should've stuck it running. Definitely. Every gig is a little bit better than the last one because there's one more song in the set. That's what it's like. Is the goal to have more songs than people or to have... Yeah. Definitely. Definitely. Definitely. At the moment, we're on three songs.

Damn. It's so exciting when you leave someone else's band and start your own and it sucks and no one comes to your gigs. It's just like... No, I've genuinely enjoyed the whole experience. It's been great.

It's not like there wasn't something there. I mean, you had the Monkey the Banana song. Yeah, yeah, that's true. That was good. There was a very funny video for that. I mean, but it's also just difficult to, well, it's difficult to do anything new, period. And not just me to have a new idea, but to put something new out there in the world. Like, the burden of effort isn't just you're competing with what came out that week. You're competing with all of music. Yeah, yeah, definitely, definitely. Yeah, yeah, it's real hard. It's like, I remember feeling bad when we did the album that...

I was like messaging about it so much on social media. I was like, this is even annoying me, but how else do I do it? I was like, how else do I tell people I've done it? Like nobody in work case. I'm sick of telling people about the photocopier. Oh, I've got a new album. I'm leaving, leaving the artwork in a photocopier. Put it up on a, on a telephone poles. Hey, I've got a new record. It's quite scary. It's quite scary. I think you have to do it again at some point. I think, I think this whole running thing is just me putting, making off music. Yeah. Well, apparently, apparently you've been doing it wrong the whole time anyway, because all people want to do is hear you shout record reviews as you cash about.

I'm happy doing that. It's like less work ultimately too. Yeah, yeah, loads less work. Yeah, it's like less work, there's less washing. I just have like two paces of shorts that last me the week and I just leave them outside in a box. You don't have to have a laundry day when you're on tour. Yeah, exactly. No, exactly. My schedule is like, it's up to me. It's up to me. There's no sound check. I'm loving it. There's no sound check, that's true. I guess maybe if you do any stretching, maybe that would be the sound check, right? I don't stretch. I don't stretch. No, I'm scared if I stretch, I'll start dissolving.

I don't want to expose some bits. No, I don't stretch. I just tense. I make myself smaller before I run. You make yourself smaller before you run. Yeah, yeah. I don't see the point of trying to make yourself smaller. You, like, belittle yourself? Like, what is that? Like, how do you make yourself smaller? I take a mirror to the woods, and I look at it, and I say horrible stuff about myself, and then I run. You bastard. How dare you? Who do you think you are? Who are you talking to? Oh, just myself. Why are you in the woods talking to a mirror? But anyway, yeah. Because I don't fish. Should have stuck to running, yeah. But people have responded well to this. People have really latched onto it, and they've... Yeah.

It seems like by seeing this and you experiencing this music and having a reaction to it, it kind of is an avenue to discuss a bunch of other things that have almost nothing to do with running. Yeah, totally, totally. I mean, for starters, it's become a real worldwide thing. Running Punks has become a real... Like today, for example, I did a training plan for someone in Sao Paulo in Brazil, and there's going to be a run club there. So the fact that it's going around the world is incredible. And yeah, sometimes I just think, am I using the music as an excuse to talk about how I'm actually feeling? Am I just putting my own...

feelings into these albums and i'm just like i'm just trying to tell people what i think about the world what i think is the answer going forward i don't know is the music just giving me a vessel to carry those words and but everyone has their own personal relationship with music in general too it's just something where that isn't often broadcast in such a way and in such a widely viewed format you know if someone yeah you know if you think back in days of yore you know like a lester bangs or something it was as much about what was going on lester bangs's life as it was about the music or where he thought music should be it was his thoughts on the world and things along those lines so that there's a long history of that it's just a thing yeah yeah the manifestation of it is this much more absurd these days, I guess, because you need to catch people's attention in some way and you need to do something that hasn't been done before, which again, just to be clear, you completely stumbled on. There was no plan of action necessarily. It just was, that's how it looked out. It popped into my head on the way back from the shop. It's just, I was walking down the most disgusting street. There's a street near me, which is disgusting. It's always full of rubbish and seagulls. And then this beautiful store just popped into my head. And I just thought, it's going to work. It's going to work because it's popping into my head like this. Yeah. So yeah, like you say, I'm just something totally new. And it's just, I don't know. It's like.

People are seeing it, see me running to their favorite band, and they're like, this guy is running to my favorite band, and he's doing something I've always wanted to do, which is exercise. I don't exercise, but I figure if you can do it to butthole surfers, you can exercise anyway. So people get in touch, and they just say, it's just a good way in to talk to someone. Music just brings people together. So you have someone saying, love your butthole surfers review. I'm 20 stone, by the way, and I want to start running. And it's like, okay, let's get you running. So it's just encouraging people to kind of go into a world they thought they had nothing in common with. I think that's the main thing with it. It's almost like a beach hold into...

a different territory that gets people past an impossible task of like I know I should be doing this but I just I don't know how to begin yeah yeah totally totally and if you can begin with an album you've got home then you can do it you know I think and maybe they don't you know they're not looking to like share that but then if they see that like oh this dude's never heard Master of Reality that's something that's something to lead with that like maybe that's like hey I'm embarrassed because you know I've gained some weight and I don't feel good about myself but I do know about Black Sabbath and I'd love to talk to you about that as well exactly yeah exactly so um Yeah, I just give them a call. I give people a call before I do training plans for them. And we just, we spend more space on my music. And then at the end, I'm like, right, I'm going to get you running now. And it just, I don't know, it just seems to work. Well, because you've established rapport, right? You've established rapport. You've established that there's some degree of common ground. Like they can even potentially, if that's a thing they're into, feel superior to you because they like. Oh, totally. Because they have great music knowledge about the thing that you're into. And you're like, great, man. So at one point, we're going to actually start running here. So just so we're clear. Yeah, totally. I mean, and I was thinking about it in terms of the mechanics of it too. Like I'm.

Uh, I actually used to have a, my left knee, uh, it's gotten a lot better since then, but I had a bad rock and roll injury where I just, it's the stupidest thing. I jumped off of a pool table at a show that we were doing and it like landed weird in a way that was, I was like, Oh, that's not a good sound. And it's not that it was broken, but it is one of those things when people talk about like, Oh, I feel like the weather's about to change. Like I kind of like have that going on a little bit, a little bit. So I've always, uh, I've always leaned towards like the elliptical and things that are easier on the knees. Uh, but I've since trained myself that I now have the ability to, to actually go out running. And so I actually went out today.

Awesome. And I did one and a half miles. And our system of measurement is so absurd and stupid. So I think that's about two kilometers. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just over two kilometers. And, you know, it was about like a 15, what we call like a 15 minute mile.

kind of a conversion so not great you know i definitely was like oh god like i was like killing it killing it not killing it not killing it but it's a guy that's basically limited my cardio to well hate lifting when i'm watching the news first of all uh which is of course when you wait for something that you hate and i love that and the rowing machine which is fantastic because that's a compound exercise but it also uh you know it's a different type of cardio it's more like an upper body thing i was like i need to i'm gonna end up like Like being one of these weird-looking action figures that they have in the 80s. One of the He-Man. And not He-Man. I mean, one of He-Man's jerk villains. Jerk villains. But I decided that I would give it a shot. And what was interesting to me is I saw the entire run. I swear this is going somewhere, by the way. I listened to the Mrs. Piss record. Which, by the way, there's a band called Mrs. Piss. I'm going to write that down. It's going to be my book. It's Chelsea Wolfe.

And a friend of mine, Jess Gowry, who played in an amazing band called Happy Fangs, amazing drummer. Oh, yeah, I know Happy Fangs. Yeah, yeah. And it just came out pretty recently, and I was like, oh, that seems like it's about the right length for a run. And it was. It was that exact record and a Mountain Goat song after that or something along those lines was about perfect. So do you calculate, when you're going down on these runs, record length?

I definitely look at the album length before I go, just to see what I'm in for. I mean, I did a Marilyn Manson one and I ran 12 miles, which is ridiculous, really. No one should make an album that's 12 miles long. That's ridiculous. It was the 90s one, right? It was because of the goddamn CDs. It's like, oh, we've got all this, we just film more music in here. It just went on and on. And it sounded more and more like Brian Ferry as it went on, but like a really boring Brian Ferry. Yeah. Honestly, no one should make an album that's 12 miles long. They should have sat down and said, how long is the album? It's about 12 miles. No, you need to take a few miles off that.

Unless you're a hell of a runner, that should be... It was insane. It was insane. I was running and it was hurting. I was screaming at myself because I just wanted to stop. I wanted the music to stop. Everyone needs an editor, Marilyn Manson. But they're usually around 40 minutes, 45 minutes, like most albums. Obviously, I do love the quick ones, which are like 29 minutes, 30 minutes. But yeah, I think Massive Reality is like 30-something, 34. It's a short record, yeah. And that comes from a tradition of that era of rock record, which is...

largely based upon vinyl. In fact, if you get past, I think, 18 to 20 minutes, you lose some of the high and lower end, which actually is one of the reasons why if you look at vinyl sequencing, the last song on the record tends to be like a mellow one or like the acoustic song or something along those lines or just something where it will trail off because there's going to be that frequency loss. And so it was based upon vinyl. Yeah, there's actually a reason why they would do it that way. But by nature of it, like, you know, if you're going above like 40, 44 minutes, like that's a double record. Yeah, right. At that point, you're making like Dark Side of the Moon or The Wall or something along those lines. Actually, I don't even know Dark Side of the Moon is a double record, but you know that's actually my least favorite Pink Floyd record of the good ones?

is Dark Side of the Moon. Has anyone ever did something that's like, nah, man, come on. Like, I don't know, metal or something. That's not good to run to. What do you want? What was the band? There was a band, and everyone was really excited for me to run to it, but at the same time, they were saying, you're insane if you're going to try to run to it. Dillinger Escape Band. Oh, yeah, that's almost too jumpy.

Yeah, I was lucky the weather was good. I honestly think if the weather wasn't good, that album would have killed me. I set off so hard, and then it just went through, it sounded like the Bronx for a bit, and it just went through all these changes. Hold on a second. So you thought the Dillinger Escape Plan sounded like the Bronx for a bit? Yes, I did. Yes, I did. I know. It did, though. There was a song with a cowbell on it. Even if the Bronx don't have a cowbell on the song, I can hear a cowbell. Yeah, yeah. That was Open Press and Replicator, and the singer was a total fucking prick, by the way.

Who's that? The Dillinger? No, the Bronx. Oh, the Bronx. I'm not going to have them on the show, so I'll talk all the shit. Yeah, they were cool. I need to do more of their albums, actually, because I did Every Time I Die, and I had one of the best runs I've ever had. It was amazing. So I said, I'm committed to Every Time I Die, I'm going to do another four albums. So I did five of their albums. Wow. That's a lot Every Time I Die. Yeah, I don't want to listen to them ever again anymore.

I'm over it now. I never wanted to listen to him. I ran so hard. I'm like such a maniac to fight with the album. It wore me out. It absolutely tired me out. Dillinger Escape Plan had an EP that they did with Mike Patton also. Yes. Have you heard this at all? No. He does an AFIX wind cover. No way. Yeah, it's great. Good one.

Come to Daddy, I think, if I remember correctly. It's really good. No way, okay. That may actually be the only Dillinger skate plan I own on physical media. Yeah. But I like them. I'm going to do more. I need to do more of them. I need to do it because they've got a Facebook group of fans, and they were just saying, please, just do. Everyone, hardcore fans are always like, you haven't run to the best album. I ran to Aya Works.

And everyone's like, nah, you need to do this album, you need to do that album. They're trying to kill you, apparently. They don't like you. Yeah, that's what happened every time I die. And honestly, I couldn't walk for a week. I'd take a week off running. It was disgusting. I didn't think it was supposed to be so literal here. Go ahead. I did think that. I thought, oh, this will get loads of views now. Yeah, yeah. So, I mean, is anyone ever suggesting, you know what you do is Jackson Brown or anything? Just totally like, come on, dude, really? Yeah, my dad really wants me to do culturating albums. He's like, you need to do some jazz. Just run to some jazz. Huh.

Lots of people asked me to do craftwork and then I did craftwork and nobody watched it. I ran half a marathon listening to craftwork and nobody, like, everyone's like, oh, well done. I was like, come on, come on. That's not contentious, though, unless you're like, yeah, get a guitar, dicks, you know, unless you like something inflammatory. It was quite hard to film myself running into craftwork because I was just having such a nice time. Yeah, did you adopt any motoric sort of movements or anything? Oh, 100%, 100%, yeah, yeah, totally. But I just had such a nice time running into them. I was filming it going, I'm not even reacting, I'm just enjoying myself. I'm just enjoying myself jogging this morning.

John Hulhan in the chat box saying it's the steps he's not taking about the jazz records, which I think is good. That's clever. He's on a good show, and he's a comedy mind. That's a good... I'll tell you what, I'll do a jazz record just so I can say that. You can drop that line. Yeah, exactly. You can credit Hulhan as the writer for that. Definitely, definitely. Let's do it real quick. I don't know if you guys have this over here, but about 15 years ago, we allowed drug companies to advertise on television, but they have to give the side effects.

right okay so something where it's like oh it's anti-anxiety medicine but like you know it also you know causes shingles like explosive diarrhea etc etc like it's like it just goes down but the thing is the the the loophole that they found is that if you just say it really quickly like at the end it still counts so they'll do this thing where they'll like just list off this just non-realistic maladies and all these reasons of like oh my god like it does that you know um But, yeah, exactly. Also includes the side effect death. But, you know, it just rattles it on. It's like, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop. And, you know, it was sort of like, what is this actually supposed to treat at some point? You know, that sounds like way worse than the thing you're supposed to be treating. Yeah.

Believe it or not, I have a place I'm going with this. You can do that for anyone that comes up with something clever. Say it at the end. Say it really fast, like rapid fire. Speed up the tape. Speed up the file. I'm running around with a Super 8 around the woods. I carry loads of tape. Just changing it. New canister. Somebody just throws it to you. You catch it. Running punks of the early years is what we call that. So I need to do some jazz then. I'll do some jazz. A long way to go for that bit. Sorry about that. No, I was waiting for it. We timed it perfectly. I just dived in there. I dived in there with a punchline.

I could see, you know, I could see, you know, Giant Steps, you know, Shape of Jazz to Come. I could see some of that. He really wants me to do, is he got an album called Africa? Coltrane. Coltrane's got a lot of records, man. Because jazz dudes are not like rock bands. You know, it's like, oh, these eight records and like four of them are good. And, you know, this one is epochal. It's like, no, we're hanging around with this dude and they cut three records and like, you know, this guy's on this one. But, I mean, with Coltrane...

Yeah, I'm trying. I think giant steps could work. I think giant steps could work. I don't know Africa. I mean, I know Africa, but I don't know. I know totally Africa. The definitive Africa, let me tell you. No, which is really the wheezer Africa, of course. Yes. So I'll try some jazz. I'll try some jazz. But it's just like, unfortunately, it's dudes with guitars and riffs that get the most clicks. But I'm a massive hip-hop fan. Hip-hop's probably like what I listen to the most. And I get asked to do...

A new hip-hop album, to me, just seems impossible to review while running because hip-hop takes months of listening for me to get there anyway. To get the nuance and get the correlation between the rapping and the beat and whatever goofy-ass sound that they dug up from some old sci-fi movie or something. Yeah, exactly. And it takes me so long to like hip-hop. I think that's why it's my favorite thing to listen to because I have to really work to get into it. And when I do get into it, it's like Captain B-Fart for me. I hated Captain B-Fart for years. And then it just clicked on me one day. And I was like, this is amazing because I put the effort in.

And hip-hop's like that, I mean, like, I really hate every hip-hop album on first listen, and I grow to love it. Yeah, so it was something like, like, I'll never forget that for some reason with Captain Beefheart, somebody decided that the best song to get me into Captain Beefheart was Fast and Bulbous, and I was like, I don't even, what the hell just happened? Was that a song? Like, what was that, you know? And I was not, I was not down. Like, if this is what this is, I am, this is not for me. But then I heard, like, Safe as Milk, and I heard, like, you know, Electricity, and, uh...

And I'm like, oh, no, no, I get it. And then I came back to the later stuff. Oh, no, I get this in context of where it was. But it's sort of like you're starting someone off with the graduate degree level learning. Yeah, yeah, totally. And I think that can be a dangerous way to go. Yeah, I think the same happened to me. I think I heard Trout Mass Replica and it just gave me like a fever. It gave me nightmares. I was like, this is what is going on. And then I saw him playing Zig-Zack Wondra on a beach in France with Raikou down the guitar. Oh yeah, man. And I was like, this is the same guy. What? I want to listen to everything he's done. So I have to listen to Trout Mass Replica because I loved the first two albums so much. Like, yeah, Safe as Milk and Tomorrow. Yeah.

Oh boy, I'm gonna get messed up. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know the one you're talking about. That's fine. Let's move on. Yeah, yeah. And I think there's a through line between that and like Ashtray Hart and like the more like weirder kind of...

things along those lines. But it is in that same way kind of something that you almost have to spend time with to get the balance. So do you feel that a lot of hip hop records are kind of like that? And when you're gravitating to it, you said modern hip hop especially, but like are you, De La Soul is being talked about in the chat box right now, right? So how about De La Soul? Love them. I love them. So like, you know, I love them. Like I did the Run and Jewels one as a first listen, but I knew that was going to be a winner because I just have LP. Like you just listen to his instrumentals anyway and it blow your mind. So, but like lots of people ask me like, do it.

Like when the new Kendrick Lamar album comes out, Don't Listen to It Till You Run, I'm like, how am I going to get that? I'm never going to understand that album when I first listen. There's no point in me doing it. It'll just be me going, yeah, no idea, no idea. Music is boring, it's repetitive, no idea. But then three months down the line, I'd be like, this is the best album of the year. So that's a good question then. Do you find that experientially, do you think you get something more out of something that's very easy to understand? Like a Ramones or something, for instance, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Whereas, I'm trying to think of something incredibly dense and crazy.

But like, I think like rock has just got that power to just, it'll just hit you straight away. It'll make you feel something. Right. And you know what I mean? And it's just so good to react to. It's so good to run to. Um, but then the good stuff just keeps on, you just keep on hearing more and more as you listen to it. Um, I'm trying to think of like definitely like buttold surfers, Dead Kennedys were those two bands for me where it was immediate. And then I went back to listen after the run and I was like, Oh my God, there's even more going on here than I thought. You were able to get a little something more out of it. Uh, yeah. For the initial experience. Uh, and, and it's brought up.

In the chat box, De La Soul actually has a record called R.U.N. that's like a 45-minute long. I don't know if it's one song or like a triptych or something. Oh, I don't know. But it's meant to be... It's meant to be... Ran to? Ran to. You're meant to run to it. Okay. I'm going to write that down now. What's it called? De La Soul and... R.U.N. Yeah. R.U.N. Nike Plus Original Run. It's an iTunes-exclusive mixtape. Oh, okay. All right. All right. Oh, okay. I think I've heard of this. Okay. I'll do that. I'll do that one. I'll run to that. So it better be good. Cool. Good for them. Good for them. This is news to me. I never even heard of this. I guess it was...

I don't know. Apparently I was listening to Captain B for our B-Sides. Who knows? So then... Have you ever tried anything where you are very familiar with the music, where it's something that you know really well, and you just kind of want to like, or is it more, do you find that you get more value out of listening to something you haven't listened to before? Yeah, I think definitely in terms of people will find it funnier when you've never listened to Black Sabbath, so they will look at it. I mean, I can't lie, a lot of it at the moment is about getting more and more people to see it, because at the end of the day, it's about running, perhaps we want more people to start running who wouldn't usually run, but I definitely want to finish the year, I think, with some of my favorite albums to run to. I just want to like...

I don't know, because it's, I want to do it anyway. Come to the music knowledge shaming, stay for the running. Exactly, yeah. Yeah, exactly, exactly. So I just want to, like, I've done, I've done new albums by bands I love, like, obviously, like, I did the Idols one. I love Idols, so, like, when they asked me to do it, I was super excited because it wasn't even out yet, so. Well, yeah, and so, and then the conceit of it is that there's a, can I call it a skit? I mean, it's, it's sort of like. No, it really happened. Really? Okay. Okay, and then one of the guys from Idols happens to be there and, oh, why don't you listen to mine? Oh, your phone's, oh, yeah, yeah, okay, cool. It was like, well.

How else do we get him in there? I was like, how else do we get you in there? It was funny. I mean, I'm taking a piss. It was funny. We tried a few different intros and that was the one that was like, we were like, yeah, that's the best one. But it's almost perfect as a running punks thing because they don't have to give away the music. It's just their senior reaction to it, right? It's almost the perfect thing you want before a record comes out that you're like, oh yeah, this is so great. This riff's awesome. Ah, I can't hear it. This is driving me because people love...

To have instant availability of everything. When they can't, it drives them crazy because that's what we expect now, right? Yeah, totally. Definitely. And I think people are catching on to that because I'm getting more and more requests. Like, will you run to this before it comes out? But I don't want to be that guy who's just like running. Like, it's like an invisible album almost. It's like you run into it and you're like, I don't even know what you're talking about. The idea of the record rather than the record itself almost. Yeah. Yeah, it needs to live in the viewer's mind for it to work. It needs to be like, but someone like Idols. I feel like they've been releasing that record for like a year and a half, by the way. But then, you know, whatever. It feels like a year and a half since a week ago.

Yeah, yeah. Well, I ran to Mr. Motivator, which is the first single at the start of lockdown, like April or something. So it's been a good build-up to it. They're doing fine. They don't need advice from me. Just do the opposite of whatever I say, and it'll be great. That's what I told Anishi, and they did, and they were very successful for their time. I was like, okay, cool. They're amazing. It's an amazing album. It's great. Yeah, I love running to that.

So what kind of reaction do you get for something like that? It's very much in the zeitgeist and very much something that's on people's minds versus going to Black Sabbath Master of Reality, which is very much a legacy record, which never dies. There's always people that find Black Sabbath or dive deeper into the catalog every year. But something that's very much, there's think pieces about Idols. Yeah, totally. You answered it before, I was going to say. Something like Idols, I did a few new releases recently, Jeff Rosenstock, Ghost Poet. I thought you were going to say Jeff Rotol. I was like, that's not a new release.

When I want to run, I really want to hear the flute. Spice Girls. Spice Girls is a band for you. Best debut of any Spice Girls record is Spice Girls. Any Spice Girls album is the best album ever for a debut. Something like Idols, I knew it's on now to find a narrative, find something that glues all these songs together.

A new release, I will try and do that as well as I can. I'll try and pick up threads that go through the album, and then I'll be like, oh, I think this album is almost telling a story about this. Or something like Black Sabbath tomorrow. Like, who cares? People know what the album's about. They just want to see my face reacting to riffs. Right, right. In that same way that, like, you know, when the kids listen to Highway to Hell the first time, and, like, you know, the second guitar comes in or something, and they're like, oh, my God, he's going to see it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, like, I love doing the classics I've never heard because I kind of know I don't have to go so deep into it. I can just enjoy it. Yeah.

So something like tomorrow, I'm really excited about it because I just want to enjoy it, have a good run. But when I did the Idols one, I was so nervous. I was so nervous because I was like, obviously I'm bust in to listen to it. I want to enjoy the music. But at the same time, I want to be able to talk about it so people will get an idea about it. But you don't want to give away the store at the same time, right? Yeah, yeah. It's like, oh my God, honestly, new releases stress me out if I'm going to do a new album because the artists themselves tend to see it. I was going to say, what if it sucks? But what if you don't like it?

I'll just say I don't like it and I won't tag them. If I like it, I'll tag them. If I don't like it, that's what happens. I really like this. I'll tag them. I didn't like this. I just, I just, I wouldn't even put the full band name. I spelled the band name wrong. I don't know how that happened. I'll fire my social media guy. But luckily, luckily I like most stuff. And I think people kind of know what I will like. So no one's apart from Glass, Joe, Mario Manson, Slipknot. I think those are the only three that I didn't like. But like, come on, there's no way I was going to like those anyway.

yeah so for new releases I really feel I don't feel the pressure I just really want to I don't know not impress the artist I just wanted to say I don't know because I know what it's like to be someone putting music out I want him to watch it and think oh this guy has gone really deep into the album and he's really got what I was after you know so I want to do that as much as I can on the newer stuff older stuff just having a pie he's just running and having a pie Marathon Manson in the chat box that's a good one John Steely Ran. That's another good one. Steely Dan is deeply contentious. People love to argue the relative merits of Steely Dan. And Steely Dan fans love to obsessively list elements of the discography that literally nobody cares about other Steely Dan fans. Okay. I don't know if they'd be good running music, though. I don't know. I don't even know who they are. I can't think. I know, man. I'm sorry. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. You know, it's one of those things that you know.

you know some of their songs. Like, you just don't necessarily know that, like, Ricky, don't lose that number. Hey, 19. Reeling in the ears. Are you reeling in the ears? Oh, yeah, I know that one, yeah. I thought it was feeling all the gears. That one's about biking, actually, yeah. Yes, yeah. It's, yeah, I mean, it's something that...

dudes especially love talking about Steely Dan. Yeah. And then, you know, like, that'd be something that, I think it actually would be probably terrible to run to now that I'm thinking about. I had an ex that liked Steely Dan a lot and was one aggressively defending Steely Dan. I was like, you're mistaking my lack of interest as attacking the band that you like. Yeah, right, yeah. That's where that, I think that's about my ex in Steely Dan, apparently. But, yeah, I mean, it's something where, where I'm going with this is...

Do you ever pick something just knowing like, oh, this is gonna be contentious? Like this is gonna be something that like, you know, people will want to get on the YouTube to comment about this. All caps with commas. No, not deliberately, but I kind of, oh, this is so weird. I find it so weird to talk about because it was something that's got nothing to do with me, but I felt like I got sucked up in it. It was like a lot of negatively turned towards idols this week and last week in this country. And I kind of got caught up in it because I'd like run to the album and I got called like an ass kisser. And it was just really weird. It was really weird because I wasn't aware of any.

slagging off between any of the other bands and idols like seafood mods i wasn't aware of it um and when i just kind of saw it was happening and people were tagging me and i was like this is really weird why why is this argument even happening because they're really similar bands So I think part of that has to do with their profile and the fact that they've managed to achieve this echelon of success that's beyond your indie rock famous kind of thing. They're on that precipice. The only other band I can think of I saw this happen to would be At The Drive-In and Queens of the Stone Age. Both of them had a segment where everybody's on your side and for you until they're not. Then they're like, oh, whatever. I still like those first two records, but fuck those guys. And I wonder maybe if that might be something. I don't know. It is something where...

Like, I get where people are put off by some of the elements of, you know, just the knock you over the head with, like, a rubber mallet level of symbolism. Right, yeah, yeah. This is a song about, you know, how we hate racists. Here it is. Here's, here's. It's just like, it's the thing that, it's like the Planet of the Apes school, where it's exactly the thing that's in the title. And I get that, and I get that, you know. But then by the same token, you know, there's something to be said for a band with a positive message, too. Like, life's a bummer. Yeah, yeah. And, like, shitting on that is kind of like, really? This is the thing that you're going to be worked up about? Like, Donald Trump is still president over here, right? Okay, cool. Yeah, exactly, exactly. And it's like, you know, and I...

Obviously, like, you're getting the drift that I don't listen to a lot of music. I'm pretty rubbish and stuff like that. But I'm also rubbish at the news. I tend to, like, just live in this weird... I think initiative catapult is a success. I just... I read books, and I'm just, like, in... I spend most of the time in a dream world. You're kind of carefully authored world surrounded by the things that you like, right? Which there's nothing wrong with that. No, nothing wrong with that. And I would never have heard of... I definitely became aware of what toxic masculinity was to idols. So, like, it definitely works. It makes you aware of stuff that, you know, I...

I don't know. I don't go looking for articles on that online. And I was made aware of it. Right. And if it's sort of like, okay, so if that's the conversational opener for like a young man that maybe hasn't been exposed to even like thinking about things in those terms, that's actually good for society. Whether you enjoy the song or not, whether you think the message is like, oh, it's still brazen and obvious and whatever. Okay, fine. But consider that maybe you're not the audience too. Yeah, exactly. I became fascinated by that because I grew up in quite like a macho valley in Wales. And I was like, I never really thought of that.

acting all masculine and macho is really bad. And then it just let me, like, reading about it. And it helped me change the way I am. Like, I don't drink alcohol anymore because I saw that as part of the problem of just trying to assert your manliness and trying to hide your real feelings. So, like, honestly, idols, they changed me. They changed the way I look at myself and men in general. So, I don't know. I can't really. Well, it's like they're using their platform for something, too. It isn't just like, you know, they're furthering their career. But it's something that they're making a choice to, like, take these actions. And I think that there is.

I think the people that tend to critique them tend to come from a position like, well, of course you should take that position, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. But again, it's okay for something not to be for you, too, and you can still appreciate it. I mean, for me, when I saw them play, I was like, this band rips. And you've got, like, you know, whatever, 400 kids, like, losing their minds to this band that, like, you know, sounds akin to all these other bands that, you know, that I love that are doing their own spin on it. And it's not that, like, okay, it's 100% original or anything, but I mean, again, go back to Bongzilla, you know, there's lots of people.

Coming up next week, singer for Bongzilla. Everyone's got their influence is where I'm going with that. And it's something that I think they have a tendency to take a stronger hit. Yeah. For whatever reason, because they're being performatively leftist or whatever. It's like, well, they could also be performatively apolitical. And then, like, what? You wouldn't have a problem with them? Oh, they should use their platform to do something important. Well, they are. Yeah. You know, it's almost like they can't win for losing. It was just so weird, because I just didn't know that thing existed around them. So I did that review. You know, like you're saying, there's anything that's been contentious. And it was just me having a really good time running to a band that I love ended up just being like, oh, dude, like, you've got it all wrong. I was like, what is going on? I've just been for a 45-minute run to an album that really made me feel something. I had a great time doing it.

And somebody wants to take that away from you and be like, well, here's all the reasons why you shouldn't enjoy that. Yeah. And it's like, like people just start, people start unfollowing you and like, it's like, what, what? I've just had a good time. So apart from that, there's been nothing, nothing really, yeah, nothing has really angered people apart from me having a good time listening to a band.

So they've been around for a bit. I mean, have you seen them before? Have you played with them in the past when they were starting off? They played with Future Left. I think it was like a year after I left. They played with them in London. I'd seen them twice. I saw them in Cardiff. Yeah. And I kind of knew Dev from his other band Playing Vooz. I'd seen those playing in Cardiff. They were three-piece. I saw them play in Cardiff a few times. So I kind of knew them that way. But yeah, by the time they supported Future Left, I was gone then.

i mean for me it's sort of like with that record brutalism i mean just with that song mother alone i was like okay there's something there's something cool here like this is interesting because it's sort of like elements of uh you know jesus lizard and like you know pixies sorry i know you never heard the pixies i've heard the best of the pixies and uh and the classic or whatnot but kind of was putting it through its own lens and it had an ethos and approach and it worked and you know it's a it's a very hooky song that has a surreptitious message and for me that last record that they did is sort of like oh it's like a less nuanced version of that but they're just going deeper on it and then also trying to add these other things and again it seems like a luxury to be upset about rock bands making records yeah yeah in a world where Breonna Taylor gets killed by the police and they talk about endangering the neighbor because bullets went through the wall and it's like, okay, and you're expecting people are rioting now and it's like, well, why wouldn't they riot? What exactly did you think was going to happen here? So the idea of the relative merits of the New Idols record kind of blows my mind that people would get that upset about it. But they do! I mean, there's a group on the Hellscape that is Facebook that...

It's got like 12,000 members or something. It's got a point where people will be like, huh? And they'll just post an article. Because they know that people are going to jump in aggressively for or aggressively against, and they're going to start fighting just by posting. I haven't seen anything. You don't even need to take action anymore. Again, it's like the famous for being famous thing. It's like contentious for contentiousness sake. And people forget why they were even contentious about it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, definitely. Yeah, definitely. Definitely. All caps, often, no commas. So, Joe Talbot, how does he like his boot slick? Does he have a particular...

Ah, you let me down the garden path then. Having a laugh, having a laugh. Having a last laugh. So then, where do you see this going? I mean, you've got this thing, and you seem to be honestly doing some good with it, which, I'm sorry, that might sound disrespectful, but like, meaning, like, beyond just, you know, hey, cool, this dude's, you know, listening to Monster Magnet, and I'm listening, and like, oh, I wonder what he's going to think of it, you know? Yeah. Have you listened to Monster Magnet, by the way? No.

Oh, that might be one of the best. Go on the list. Go on the list. For the audio listeners, he's writing the word Monster Magnet down on the... Yeah, I got a nice pink book. It's very pink. Full of bands I haven't heard. I write them down. Jesus. Yeah, so you can just keep us going, man. You can keep us going until the wheels come off, huh? It's crazy. I've been doing talks. That's a new thing I do now. So I just go and talk to people I run in. So I did one at a brewery two weeks ago, and I had a massive list of bands to listen to from the brewery. That's a brewery list. So for the audio listener, there was like two full pages of... So were people just like, oh...

do um yeah just naming like whatever yeah yeah do you know what though there's one band i need to do but i love i actually love them they're probably like one of my favorite bands uh perubu oh yeah man yeah i really want to do even though i know modern dance inside out i just think that would be such a cool one to run to i think that could be the first one i do that i love already yeah yeah yeah so it's almost like for me i almost think that there's there's a singles collection uh for perubu yes and it's almost like that's almost like the go-to record you know because yeah As much as, like, their records are all rad, it's like, no, this gives you, like, everything you need to know about this incredibly, like, weird and idiosyncratic band, you know? Yeah, yeah, totally. Per Ubu would be great, and people would love to talk about that, boy. Yeah, I think that would be deeply contentious. That would definitely would, yeah, so I'll do a Per Ubu one. Somebody would probably talk trash about Dave Thomas's weight in a very insensitive manner, and, like, five other people would attack that person, and then they would...

I thought they were Welsh when I was a kid because the name Dave Thomas is such a Welsh name. Almost quintessentially Ohio in a way that maybe unless you spend a lot of time in Ohio, you don't understand. But people in Ohio, it's like, I mean, there's a reason why you got like Devo and Para-Ubu. And then also like later you have like the Breeders and Guided by Voices and Brainiac. And sort of like if you do something creative, it comes out almost iconoclastic by the nature of your surroundings, which are just like central casting middle oppressive middle America, you know. Yeah. We're trying to repel the invading virus with our antibodies.

we played that with future left we played a gig in cleveland and uh i played non-alignment pact in soundcheck like i was so excited i was like this is where they're from i can't believe i'm doing this i can't believe i'm even on a stage in cleveland playing and nobody knew where i was playing i was like i thought the sound man yeah the sound man would go yeah man like i know those guys but everyone was like yeah cool riff that sucks Yeah, where are we going to take this? I don't know. I don't know. Yeah, because you said the Kraftwerk one didn't really have the reaction that you'd hope. Yeah. And so it's sort of like, it kind of seems like you're...

it's something that changes and morphs as you go and as you create it. And it's cool that it has the unsealier effect of not just being an entertaining thing on the internet, but getting people talking about fitness and thinking about fitness in a way that, again, as we mentioned, kind of gets over the hump, if you will, of non-action. So, I mean, now that you know you have this platform, do you feel like an obligation to lean into that and kind of try harder to push that side of it? Or are you just kind of, you know? screw it i'll just listen to bongzilla and get on with my life i think uh running i mean it hasn't saved my life but it's definitely made my life a lot better than it was two years ago i was like definitely in a bad place i wasn't looking after myself my mental health was was shot it was you know i was having panic attacks a lot it was really unhealthy and i started running i just started running i just thought like i know how to run i've done it before let's get let's get running again and i lost six stone last year um and like i'm off the booze now for people that don't have lord of the rings measurements oh yeah

Just over 20 kilos? Okay. Is that... It just made me... It's a good amount of weight, actually. So it's a... Wow, 84 pounds. 84 pounds, yes. Goddamn. You're kidding, man. That's... Goddamn. Yeah, there's a lot of before and after pictures on Instagram if you want to see those exciting things. Was it all drinking man's burden? It was a lot of booze, yeah. It was all around my... I'm patting a perhaps all-too-impressive beer belly that... Do you know what? The most surprising place I stored the weight was on the back of my head.

I had a lot of weight on that. I had a lot of fat on the back of my head, which is crazy. That joke is too easy and I'm just not going to go for it. Really? I didn't know if it was possible to put... Oh my God.

How did you know? Did you change hat sizes? Yes. No, I just noticed my head was moving better. I could just see it. I could just see it from photos. I could feel it. I had a lot of chunky stuff on the back of my head. I was kind of like a human camel. Half camel, half man. All danger. Full danger. I lost a lot of weight, then I got really healthy, and life got good again, and I started feeling positive about stuff.

I just want to help people do that. That's what we do in Running Punks. We are just getting people just to take the first step. It's just to get people going. Once they get going, I think you just build up your momentum and you will realize it's for the good and you will just keep on going, really. It's interesting, too, because it doesn't seem like there's a lot of avenues or resources for that. If there are, I'm just blissfully unaware of them. Again, as I mentioned before, coming to the fact that...

Just because people get older doesn't mean they change their interests. They're still going to be interested. It doesn't mean that they're totally going to want to hear 180 beat per minute runner's mix techno only. So it's something that absolutely makes sense. So you were a runner before you played in bands, right? Yeah. Can you real quick just give me, because apparently I have more misdream than material to cover, so make it real quick, I said.

Can you real quick talk about that? Was that something you were into when you were a kid? How did you come to even be a quote-unquote runner? What was your point in and out of it? Yeah, so I was a really...

anti-social kid i was a bit odd i'd cry a lot and my parents my dad was like best way to go over that is to do sport so i tried rugby tennis football everything that was on the doorstep and i enjoyed them but it was when i started doing athletics when i was about 18 years old that i just loved it i just loved the fact i was out running on my own i love the fact that you were like your own person on the track when you're racing i just love the fact that i was doing what my parents wanted me to do by being sporty but i was doing it on my own so i was like this is amazing sounds like you're the original sporty spice yeah yeah and um i started running 800 meters on the track And in, I think it was three or four years, I got six in the world championship final. So I was like the sixth fastest man in the world over 800 metres. I'm the second fastest Welshman ever over 800 metres. I think I'm in the top three. You know what they say? You don't have to be the fastest Welshman. You just got to be faster than the other guy. Yeah, I'm faster than most people's dads around here. You're faster than all the rest of them, so you'll be fine when the bear attacks. Exactly, man. Exactly. Or the crazy sheep in Wales. Is there a sheep around here? Is that a thing? There's a lot of sheep. Yeah, there's a lot of sheep around here.

And I think I'm like top 30 all-time imprint in 800 meters. So I got to a good level really quickly, really quickly. In like three years, three or four years. A lot of Paramedia fans in that world? I didn't meet a single one. I didn't meet, I tried to, you know what, I tried to introduce him at the Fragg Zapper, and he forgot the name, and he kept calling him the remote control guy, because he called his remote control Zapper. And he's like, oh, he was like, oh, stick that remote control guy back on, I really like it. Fragg Zapper. Because he's used to using the Zapper. The Zapper, you got it, you got it. Or whatever, I'm wrong, whatever. So, um.

And I just dipped myself into this super competitive world for a couple of years. And then I just hated it. I hated it. Like when it got really serious, I just, I fell out of love with it. And I just did the thing I've always wanted to do, which was be in a band. So as a kid, my dad, my dad's a musician. He loves his music. He introduced me to Captain B Fart and things like that. And I just thought, you know, I just want to do this. I was kind of saving it for my retirement, but I thought I'd take an early retirement at 25 years old. And yeah, that was it. It's a pretty early retirement, yeah. Yeah, I know. I know. I burnt out. I burnt out. So yeah, I just started playing in bands.

Yeah, so was that something where you were doing it for a while before you ended up playing in Future to the Left? So I started a band called Strange News from Another Star. And we were a garage rock band. And we had Mark Foley in the band from that who was mentioned in the song. The titular Mark Foley. Mark Foley, there's also an American congressman named Mark Foley. Yes, yes. A lot of people thought that was a political song. So we had Mark in the band. So we had that kind of connection with Future to the Left. And McCluskey were one of my favorite bands.

when like when do Dallas came out I remember the day I bought it I just loved it uh so I was obviously I was into Future Left so just having that connection was exciting for me anyway like just someone in the band who knew who knew Falco and Kelson and Jack and then I remember we were in we were in a shop buying some food the three of us the band and we had a phone call from Kelson and he's like can you come to London tonight to support Future Left like a band has pulled out so we just I was like yeah we're doing it we're doing it so we just drove down to London supported them and it was just like amazing and then just became like quite friendly with them and then yeah Kelson left then me, Falco, and Jack were going to start a side project or a new band, and we just thought, look, it makes more sense to just keep this Future of the Left. So I think I'd been playing music for maybe like three years by then. Wow. Yeah, so that was just as quick as the running, really. It was like I threw myself into something, and it happened really quickly. And I think the same is happening with running. Yeah, it seems like there's a running theme, if you will. Yeah, yeah. So I don't want to belabor the point too much, but how did it all end up with Future of the Left? Like, is there bad blood, bad feelings? Like, was it messy?

I think it was a little bit messy, but I think it was kind of... I don't know. I think I needed to be out of the band anyway. Like, I think Falco just needed me out. I needed to be out for my own kind of health and happiness, really. So I think it was done in a messy way. But by being done like that was the only way it could have been done, really, I think. I don't know. Like, I was never going to leave in my own accord because at the back of my mind, I was still like, well, you know, I am still in my favorite band at the moment. So I was never going to leave. Yeah, yeah. You're going to have to be asked to leave. You're not going to willingly. Yeah. Even though I was like, it's gone a bit shit. Something's not right here. And like.

I was definitely partly to blame. You know, it was one of them things. It's a band, isn't it? It's what happens. So yeah, I don't speak to them anymore, but yeah, I'd say hello if I saw them, definitely. But yeah, I think it just, I just, I don't really know any people who leave bands and it's normal. Right, well, I mean, it's something of a non-traditional partnership or pairing anyway, right? Like it's the amount of...

plate spinning that goes on just with like even like an average band operating is a kind of extraordinary really if you stop and think about it yeah and and we had like these weird things in future left when uh like i was a lot younger than falcon julia but i still am i haven't but i'm not it hasn't changed yeah yeah uh i don't know i don't know there was just it was happening it was unraveling and i think like mccluskey were doing gigs again and i think there was that kind of i could you know you could see it if you watch mccluskey you could see this is really working as a three-piece and i certainly was like why the why the hell does this guy need another guitarist in a band yeah it's just working fine as the three of them um and i was definitely seeing like people who were like we played at the same festival future left and mccluskey and the future left gig was in the midday and it was all right it was all right and then mccluskey headlined like a tenth in the night lose their shit yeah yeah you know and i just got really drunk and i was like i was out of control i was a dickhead but you know, fuck, it was heartbreaking to see it happening. You know, because I was like, well, fuck, we put so much into this band. Yeah, because you put so much effort and time into making this, and like, make it interesting and not have it repeat what's been done before, and then people are just like, oh, you just really want to rock out to a 20-year-old record. Yeah, yeah. And I remember watching a set, and I was just like, drinking, I was just drinking vodka out of bottles, and I was like, fuck, I'm enjoying watching this, but at the same time, I hate myself because I've been in our band Future There for years, and we've just done a new album, kind of like, the album wasn't that old, and I was like, fuck, man, what's happened here? Like, I've gone from being a world-class runner.

to just watching this. And it was, it was painful. It was real tough to go through. And I just knew, like, I just knew that was my last gig. And I just knew that, I don't know, like, for Falco, I guess, like, the hunger for Future Left had been, and for McCluskey had been reignited. And from, like, a personal standpoint, point of view, I was, he was seeing that he doesn't need another guitarist who probably makes life difficult for him. Because it's like, but like... Right, right, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I get where you're going with that, yeah. But, like, his way of playing, it's so hard. As a guitarist, like, how the hell do you play along to what that guy is playing? Like, it's just...

iconic for a reason yeah because he has a he has that way that in a way that is not anything like Steve Albini but in a way that often mimicked, but never quite exactly the same. How did you come to do that that way? How are you doing that that way? He'd write a riff, and then we'd be in the studio jamming, and then I'm like, I'm playing this riff exactly the same as you, and he's like, you're not, you're not. And it was always like that. I was like, I'm looking at you playing it, and it looks so simple, but it's just a lot of how he's doing it. So, yeah, yeah. And for the first two albums, it was fine, because I was writing my own guitar parts, and we built a lot of songs around guitar parts I'd written, but I think with the new life that McCluskey was giving him, he was like...

I can write a lot of stuff on a guitar now. I don't know if he's giving him new confidence, but that was the foundation again was his riffs. And rediscovering those older songs probably and finding what you loved about them and kind of wanting to take certain things. Oh yeah, I forgot about that. Exactly, man. Yeah, exactly. And I think I could feel him just looking at me in some practices like, fuck, I don't think we need you. You can't play this riff. So it was, yeah. And it got to the point where I was just doubling when he was playing and yeah, you know what I mean? It's like, I think my course is done now. I helped him out on a little transition stage. I think we're done.

and so it was tough yeah so i mean and that's a hit man and it's you know after that's even as much as you see the punch coming you know yeah yeah because you think i mean i was thinking look i'm in my favorite band i think i may have made a mistake by quitting athletics when i was like one of the best in the world but at least i've got the fact i'm in my favorite band so i can say i've made a choice and it's worked out well and then i was like holy shit i'm 33 years old i'm really overweight my hair's falling out and i'm about to get sad for my favorite band so it was it was like yeah yeah Sure, there's stuff to running, but I enjoyed it. I learned a lot about myself, which I think is important. You have to learn that lesson somehow. So I learned a lot about myself and that band, and I learned how to play guitar with four strings on it, which I would never need again. Not a very marketable skill, but a cool one. I learned it, yeah. Maybe you could join Federation X, who knows. But you decide, hey, I'm not done musically.

Yeah. So you start up, I mean, is Vega Bodega the first thing that comes up? Like you were like, I'm going to make a band that's going to be like this? Or was there more intent to that or less intent? Well, like Vega Bodega, it was my band in school, basically. We were all best mates in school. And we did gigs when we were like 16, 17, didn't record anything. And I just, I really didn't know what to do. I knew I wanted to carry on with music. I knew I had some songs written. Like a lot of those songs were written while it was in Future Left. So we just got together and we just jammed. And not...

Not planning to take it anywhere, and I just said, look, I've got these songs I've written, should we give them a go? And yeah, it happened to be 30 minutes worth of music, so we made an album. Right, right, right. Usually it goes, yeah. Yeah, but I haven't written a song for ages. I don't pick up a guitar anymore. So you have this epiphany almost, of being like, hey, you know, you're...

you're at what someone would call an advancing age. You're not necessarily young, not necessarily old, but your health isn't where, for whatever reason, you're at this point that your health isn't where you want it to be. So what would you just go, man, enough's enough. When do you take that jump? And how do you get to that? Because I think that's what a lot of people struggle with. Yeah, it's weird because I'd known for three years that I was out of shape when I was unhealthy, but I just tired of boozing. And it got to the point where I went to see a physio, right? Because I wanted to get fit. So I went to see a physio because my body was just hurting. And there's this lovely guy who lives near me.

We were just talking, because I am going to eat hay, so I don't go to a hairdresser, so I tell my secrets to a physio. Nice, well done. Yeah, cheers. And we were just chatting, and I told him about my running past, and he couldn't believe it. He couldn't believe it. Because he's looking at the U in the shape you're in, where you're not exactly right in shape. Yeah, totally. And he's like, you used to run to grip it in, kind of thing. You're lying. I was like, no, honest to God, he Googled it on his phone, and he was like, what?

He said this thing like, there must be loads of photos at home of you running. I was like, there's nothing. My wife didn't even know me when I was a runner. So he was like, man, he's like, put a photo on the wall of you running. You'll feel loads better. So I asked for one for my birthday and my wife got me this big framed photo of me in a final of the world champs, right? I put it on the wall. I took a picture, put it on Instagram or wherever. And someone sent me a link to that race on YouTube. So it was available to look. Okay, gotcha. Yeah. So I'd never watched the race. Like I'd run in the final of the world championships and I'd never seen it. So I said to my wife, I was like, do you want to see?

me running in the world championship she's like well yeah of course I'm sick of you and you talking about it let's see it so we watched it and there's a little bit where I'm 24 years old I'm on the start line and I just wave to the camera like introduces me like and I wave and I smile and she says I recognize that smile that looks nothing like you but I recognize that smile and we watched the race and we went to bed and I was just lying awake like what does she mean I recognize that smile do I not smile anymore yeah yeah yeah and all of a sudden I realized it wasn't that I put loads of weight on or I got unhealthy it was I'd lost that 24 year old version I'd we'd seen me on tv And I drank like one or two pints now and again, but all I did was run and it was the happiest I've ever been. And just like that, it became so easy. I just like, right, it's not about losing weight. It's about getting our version back, getting our version of Jimmy back. And I just started running like straight away. Just like, this is what I need to do. So that's what it was. It was just realizing running for me was about becoming a good version of myself again, no longer being a dickhead. Yeah. Like remembering that there was like a, you know, not idealized version, but there was a version of yourself where you felt differently about yourself and things and like, and kind of rediscovering that. Okay. Interesting. So, and then, I mean,

Do you change your eating habits, too? Do you change your drinking habits? Well, you said you quit eventually, right? Yeah. It was a gradual thing. It was a gradual thing. I started running, and then I was still getting drunk on weekends. And then the more and more I ran, the better I felt. Sorry to interrupt, but did you feel that you were desiring that as a outlet less?

yeah it was weird right because something happened and i find i still find it hard to explain now but it was as if my body started thinking instead of my brain it was weird so like if i if i'm like going out i'm trying not to drink it's my brain saying don't drink don't drink but then the same brain is saying i have a pint you'll be fine then the same brain is like taking a piss on a taxi or or or booting the wing mirror off so i'm like trying to balance between two sheep as you yeah i'm just like i can't trust my brain anymore my brain has let me down and i got the point where physically i was feeling really good and i was losing weight and i was enjoying how it felt physically to run. That's what I was enjoying. I was like, it feels really good for my body to be moving like this. And it was almost as if running was bringing back memories because I remember when I used to move like this when I was 21 years old. And my body kind of just took over. It was weird. My body was like, you don't need a drink now because I'm feeling good. Your legs are feeling good. Your heart and your lungs are feeling good. Stopped drinking enough. And I just stopped. I just stopped. And it's like nine months later. I just, I haven't, I'm not even tempted, which is crazy. If you knew me before, it's crazy. Yeah, yeah. So did you find that

And again, harking back to the whole Running Punks thing and people discovering through the music reviews and whatnot and then wanting to kind of engage and tell their stories. I mean, do you find that the folks that you're talking to have had, you know, troubles beyond just getting out to run? Yeah, yeah. Running, like we've got a run club in Cardiff, so we all just meet up. It's like 30 of us and we go for a run. And when you run with someone, I don't know what happens, but your defenses just drop totally and we just have real deep conversations. Find out, like, a lot of it is about what makes you a bad person.

but in a way where you're not like things have you done in your life yeah yeah totally totally and but we're all we're all running to fix it and then we've got that like on the online community people have been honest about it online like running from your problems punks yeah pretty much like pretty much pretty much just running towards different problems yeah exactly running towards new more exciting problems yeah it's it's i don't know it's i don't know it's amazing it's amazing and It just feels like on the internet so much is fake. And I just feel like running punks, we all admit we're not the best runners. But it's not about being the best runner. It's about the process of doing it and moving forward. And I think that, well, exuberance and enthusiasm are contagious, right? And that's true in most things. Yeah. Maybe not mortician's assistance or something. But in most things, if you're exuberant or something and you're really bringing genuine enthusiasm to it, there's going to be some...

At some point, somebody's going to say, oh, that looks fun. Or that looks cool. Or, oh, I should try that. And again, if they get to... If they get to pair that with, I can't believe this guy's never heard Faith No More, then great. You know, that's awesome. Yeah. Like, however they got there, they got there. But it isn't about being like, this guy is like, you know, the best that there is. It's like, no, this guy is doing his best. Yeah. Yeah, totally. Totally. And I think that's what it's about. It's about just attracting people like that. Like, we're super honest with each other, you know. And I don't know. I hate using the term like a nice place on the internet, but it just is. It just is. Well, we could use a few more of those, you know. Yeah. Certainly enough terrible ones. Yeah, totally. And it's just, I don't know. It's just.

It feels good to do something positive for me because I think a lot of my issues has been like with negativity and guilt. That's something I've had a lot of for a good couple of years and it just feels good to finally, for me, just to be much more positive as a person. And just to help other people just be much more positive because, well, the world's a bit shit at the moment anyway. Right, yeah. Exactly. If your biggest problem is some dude doing running videos and listening to records, maybe you need to assess your entire worldview. I think so, yeah. Yeah, definitely. Definitely. Do you ever get any, I'm not.

one to look through the comments uh just as a general ethos but i mean do you ever get people that like are worked up that like have some mad on about things i mean you mentioned like you know we had a very long conversation about idols being contentious but just in general the idea of you doing this that like people think you're I don't know, have some agenda. I don't know. The reason why I say this is because it comes off way less pretentious or agenda-driven than a lot of the fitness world videos, which are usually like five seconds in and I'm like, right, I'm done. Yeah, I haven't seen anything. It seems like an insufferable asshole. I'm out of here. An absolute fitness prick. I haven't seen anything, but I imagine it's probably out there. It's sort of like you're making a community and you're not trying to...

enlist necessarily, but you're making like an open club for people to join if they feel so inclined, which I think the people that are going to be there are going to want to be there for some reason. Yeah, totally. Yeah. I mean, there's no money involved. You can buy the kit if you want, but you can just join in whenever. We don't charge for the run clubs. We just come along and go for a run. And the training plans that I do write for people are super cheap compared to other people. So I think people are like, well, it's not like money driven really. It's just, I don't know. It's just people having a good time and running.

Yeah, it was weird. Someone sent me a message saying, like, oh, congrats, Running Punk seems to be taking off. Just promise me one thing, you'll never get caught up in all the negative comments. And then I was like, I haven't seen any negative comments. What have you seen? What have you seen? So I started freaking out. I was like, oh my God, is this something I haven't seen? Some chat room, some drowned in sound chat room or something. I'm getting a massive slag in. I mean, it'll happen eventually.

you know the question the question isn't if it'll happen because there is a certain type of person that just hates anybody that sees somebody being successful and instead of seeing the work that they've done to do the thing that they're doing they see themselves and what is missing and wanting in themselves and it makes them angry and so that's externalized as a form of attack and unfortunately it's more common than not on the internet and especially amongst things that are that are that are popular yeah so I mean, you might want to be prepared for it, but yeah, just realize it says more about the poster than it does about it. Do you know what, though? I find that anything negative disappears after good sleep. Like, I've...

You know, the only thing I got caught up in was a crossfire with idols. Even though, like, it was... Because that's not your war. You're just, you know, running through the battlefield. Yeah. But, you know, I go to bed thinking, oh, my God, like, so-and-so unfollowed me because I've done an idols review, which I'm like, what's going on? I'm really angry. And then I went to sleep and woke up and I was like, oh, that's weird. I got angry about that last night. That doesn't matter. Online stuff. Who cares? Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So I'm prepared for it. And I will run through it. Or I'll just hit the bottle again and get really abusive online. So, and, and, this has been great. Thanks so much for doing this, man. It's been great having me on the show.

You know, for the last 100 episodes, 100 episodes? Yeah, I've kind of ended the shows by just asking people why you do what you do. And you can interpret that any way that you like. But I'd like to hear. Yeah. Why do I do what I do? Because it makes me better. It makes me happy. And it stops me going to work in an office. No, I just genuinely love it. I honestly just genuinely love it. And it's just, what's it doing? I don't know. It's doing something to me. I can't even work out what it's doing at the moment because it's still so new. But it's just, it's just.

bringing things my way which I love and which I'm really enthusiastic about so every day I'm talking to new people from anywhere in the world about running and I'm getting them running and I just love that and I just love the running punks community and I think if that hadn't existed I would have lost all the weight I needed to lose and then I would have stopped but I feel as part of the punks community as MDL so I just I don't know I just wake up every day happy what's going on and I just look forward to working hard I just love working hard Well, I think that's lovely. And I think you're making something really special here. And yeah, thanks so much for coming on the show, man. This has been great. Thank you so much for having me. Yeah, I loved it. Thank you very much. And, you know, should have stuck to running. All right, brother. I know it's late out there, so get some rest, would you? Will do. I'll see you in the morning for some Black Sabbath. Okay, man. Take care. See you later. Ta-ra. Bye. Bye. Oh, there he goes. Jimmy Watkins, we are out of here. Runningpunks.com. They're on.

Instagram. They're on Twitter. There's Facebook group. It's cool, man. Check it out. It's interesting stuff. And there you go. This has been Conan Neutron's Photonic Reversal. Thank you so much for listening to it. This show airs. Read a note. Thursdays, 8 p.m. Eastern, 7 central, 6 mountain, 5 pacific. I think like 1 a.m. Cardiff time. Archives. Photonic Reversal.com. Patreon.com. If you want to help support the show and get episodes sooner, $1 a month will get you there.

Thanks for sharing all the shows around. Always appreciate it. Helps the show grow. And yeah, just thank you. Unless you're supportive for anyone giving a crap about any of this at all. It's been a tough week. Be excellent to each other. Stay safe out there. Take it easy.

Not if you were the last man on earth. She was prepared to prove it. This one goes out to a special girl. There is no special girl. The radio plays the last record. The last what? Leaves the transmitter. Circles the globe in search of a listener. Is it really broadcasting if there's no one there to receive? And radio. Come to the close of broadcasting. I've got my radio. Can you hear me?