Ep213: Mind the Hype - Dr Nicholas Van Dam & Chelsey Fasano

In this episode I am joined by Dr Nicholas Van Dam, the inaugural Director of the Contemplative Studies Centre and an Associate Professor in the Melbourne School of Psychological Sciences at the University of Melbourne, and Chelsey Fasano, a Columbia University neuroscience graduate. Dr Van Dam discusses his 2018 paper ‘Mind the Hype: A Critical Evaluation and Prescriptive Agenda for Research on Mindfulness and Meditation’ which levels serious criticisms at his own field of mindfulness research and contemplative neuroscience, taking aim at poor methodological practices, problems with definitions, and the strong incentives in the field which can conflict with the pursuit of science. Dr Van Dam reveals what he calls the unholy triad of mindfulness research, explores the theme of elitism in meditation, and raises questions about the studies conducted on Buddhist contemplative Matthieu Ricard, known as the ‘happiest man in the world’. Dr Van Dam also considers the degree to which mindfulness can be meaningfully isolated apart from its traditional religious contexts, notes the adverse effects of meditation, and shares his thoughts for the individual meditator on how to practice and who to trust in todays meditation marketplace. … Video version: https://www.guruviking.com/podcast/ep213-mind-the-hype-dr-nicholas-van-dam-chelsey-fasano 
Also available on Youtube, iTunes, & Spotify – search ‘Guru Viking Podcast’. … Topics Include: 00:00 - Intro 01:26 - Mind the Hype 03:02 - Realising something was wrong with the mindfulness field 05:30 - Has the field improved? 06:20 - Perverse incentives 08:08 - The unholy triad of mindfulness 09:53 - The definition problem 11:56 - Poor standards of evidence 14:36 - Misunderstanding of neuroplasticity 16:36 - The Matthieu Ricard problem and elitism 19:17 - Olympians of the mind 21:21 - Adverse effects of meditation 22:11 - History of elitism in Buddhist meditation 23:48 - Controversies about defining mindfulness 29:16 - The judgment trap 31:58 - Operationalising mindfulness to serve the research agenda 32:58 - Missing the traditional context 35:40 - To what extent can science be informed by traditional schema? 42:01 - Consequences of moving away from religious thinking 46:45 - Scientism as a faith position 47:41 - Profit incentives 51:17 - What motivates mindfulness researchers? 51:29 - How to we recognise authority? 52:43 - Omertà and corrupt science 59:22 - Career risks in criticising mindfulness research 01:02:33 - Mindfulness is passé 01:04:28 - Critique of psychedelic and tech interventions 01:08:56 - Why bother with meditation? 01:12:39 - Importance of practice goals 01:13:50 - Is enlightenment really worth the effort and risk? 01:16:40 - Is meditation just practicing skilful suffering? 01:18:21 - Real practice doesn’t sell 01:20:46 - Advice for meditation practitioners 01:23:22 - Recommendations for mindfulness researchers 01:23:58 - Gaslighted by religious traditions 01:24:51 - Who can we trust? 01:27:26 - Contemplative Studies Centre … To find out more about Dr Van Dam, visit: - https://www.nicholastvandam.com/ - https://psychologicalsciences.unimelb.edu.au/CSC - https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29016274/ To find our more about Chelsey Fasano visit: - www.chelseyfasano.com For more interviews, videos, and more visit: - https://www.guruviking.com Music ‘Deva Dasi’ by Steve James