Hello and welcome to sitcom geeks the podcast about all matters sitcom. I'm Dave Cohen and I'm James Kerry There'll be regular guests and we'll occasionally talk about other areas of comedy, but mostly it's sitcom sitcom sitcom And there'll be we'll have occasional interruptions as well from our producer Katie Katie Katie story and she's gonna be making sure that we don't climb too high up the geeky committer and that we try and keep things as Straight forward as possible. You'll help us to appear like normal people. Yes.
Yes You have the toughest job of all I think and so today we'll start with An area that really I suppose people don't think about enough But I think it's probably the most important when it comes to writing a sitcom and that's gonna be what is your sitcom about It is I mean, it's probably I thought it's saying that we're in general when we talk about sitcom We're talking about writing them. We obviously will talk about watching them and appreciating them as well But I guess because we're looking at the mechanics of it and how it works and in one sense Yeah, one-on-one is really it what it looks like it's about what it's actually about you know usually to extremely different things So you've got three big questions. Yeah, I mean you start with the very first basic question Which is what is my sitcom about this is a very very narrow question, isn't it? It's about a hotel in Torquay for instance Yeah, the owner of the hotel in Torquay It's the setting isn't it as well.
Yeah, so it's a city one since situation comedy is a you know It's a sitcom is a situation and so in one sense the setting is a situation and yet in so many ways It is the least comic and the least important thing if you actually have a funny situation the joke can wear fairly thin barely soon So actually you want to identify all situation, but we can come on to that. Yeah, yeah So that's what's it about then but then the next question that you have to ask at pretty much the same time really is what is your sitcom really about? Yeah, and this is the this is the elusive thing and why actually coming up with the sitcom Takes ages because it's just simple enough question. It's a simple enough way to think of a sitcom that you know You can as a sitcom writer I get the oh you should come to my office because that would make a really good sitcom And do you think well, yes, you know, maybe it would something funny happen to them in their office once yes And they still talk about it someone said to me.
Yes, you should I went to a restaurant I went back to see my family leads and this old dude She said I went to a restaurant once and you must write a sitcom about it Absolutely, you must write a sitcom about it because there was a waiter who was quite funny. Yeah, basically. Yeah, yeah So I mean one sense all these things will be harsh on on everyone But you got to start somewhere and so there's an accentuish I mean to be honest almost every sitcom that I've written has started with the situation So on the radio I did I've done three sitcoms one of which was a failure such a failure that you won't even heard of it But the two that were less failed was about management consultants I thought oh lots of people I was at university with their management consultants They would be funny to do a show about management consultants and then a few years later after I got cancelled I thought oh bless you park. That's interesting I bet you do a funny sitcom since I'm blessed to and then I had to work out what characters were you were ahead of the pattern I was yes, that's right and ready for council just the right time obviously because no one's just didn't actually park anymore You know that's the fact yours is only blechsally park related story that's not been turned into a major motion picture So I'm better than it's quite a post and I'm very happy about that.
I wouldn't want him cluttering up No, no my my calendar work But actually it was during the course of thinking about that show where we had to work out What's it really about and initially I thought well, this is about a bunch of clever people because everybody of actually is super super clever But then I thought well, that's not gonna work because if everyone's clever, then no one's exceptionally clever and where's the conflict? You can't just have a sitcom by clever people not realizing of course the big bang theory is exactly that If I said it 60 years later in America, I would be a billionaire But but no so we then had to work out that like a lot of English sitcoms. It's about class So that's what it's really about and it is One of the reasons why I think you tend to see a sitcom another sitcom Oh, it's another flat share sitcom and who go no not another flat share sitcom but actually if you think about what Arms from a mane have done with peep show which is basically too blokes sharing a flat and Then you realize actually well, it's not really the fact that it's about two books showing flat It's about guys of that age who obviously were friends in their 20s and are drifting apart The one thing that's sort of keeping them together is being stuck together in this flat And it's a very it's a very sort of contemporary take on a very sort of old issue Absolutely and they're and I was thinking of another flat share sitcom when they're thinking men behaving badly Which in some senses you would say is almost exactly the same show But in other senses you go well, it's a completely different show They just have a totally different feel to them even though they are a lot of it is about lack of responsibility And that kind of stuff. Yeah, I suppose in men paid badly you get two men neither of whom really take responsibility Whereas in peep show you got you've got one David Mitchell's character is almost suffocating under the weight of his own sense of responsibility But it's sort of unable to do anything about it.
I don't know. Yeah But I suppose the point with regard to this what we're talking about in terms of what it's about I mean, we'll be talking about some characters and how characters define sitcoms in other podcasts But specifically when we talk about what is something about and it's the situation Doesn't isn't necessarily oh, I'm gonna do that because that's never been done before yeah That there's probably a band starting me in one sense. I can say any starting point will do I always I always say because it's not been done I don't I've never seen a sitcom set in a betting shop Mm-hmm. That is not to say that you should set a sitcom in a betting shop because it hasn't been done before And if you're trying to sell a show the fact that hasn't been done before is Relatively small part of the decision about whether they're going to do your show more important factories are the characters interesting Can we do we understand what's going on and crucially is it funny?
Because you know you can have Multiple shows that in one place doesn't really matter as long as it's you know There's room for more than one show about one thing if they're both funny the different audiences in different ways And that's fine. I think also then as well as being what's it really about and what it doesn't necessarily have to be something That's so new we've never seen it before but it's kind of what what are you bringing to it now? What is it that you can do that can make this sitcom seem different to every other sitcom that's been Whilst being familiar in terms of being a sitcom obviously But but why why are you the person to write this particular sitcom what's your experience exactly? I think in one sense you can again You can think up an original premise for a show and then I mean I've done this before Well, I just thought you start off the thing and you think well That's interesting and then you move on to the next thing and then again It becomes more interesting and more unique and more original anything Oh, this is great This is interesting and then you get it to a point where you think here's a show that I think would probably work And I can't write the show I have I have no idea about this world I'm not even interested in this world You know I have developed shows before into oblivion as in into a place where I suddenly thought I'm not interested in writing the show Even though I think this show would probably work.
Yeah, if it was written by someone who gave the stuff I think it is worth spending that time because you can It's I mean obviously you can be procrastinating and putting off the moment where you think right, okay I've got to sit down I'll start writing about this but you can't spend too much time just kind of creating a universe in your head really I'm thinking right I've got this brilliant idea and I've had this before where I've had an idea and I It sort of seemed like a brilliant idea and I've thought about it and thought about it I thought I'm just gonna start writing it and I will end up writing it but because I haven't really spent enough time Really genuinely thinking actually am I the right person to write this is am I bringing something new is this is this is it funny As you say is are there enough sort of funny situations in this to make it work and so so I've kind of I've given up for the time being Better to kind of maybe spend a month of time standing up bus stops in your head thinking of these things and then Realizing actually it's not going anywhere. I'll think of something else rather than I'm thinking this isn't going anywhere Journey for the bus waiting this isn't going anywhere It's raining Well, also there's the one top everything else you you want to be writing about a show that you that you are personally Interested in and that maybe that you know something about I mean again will probably cover Researching sitcoms and all that kind of stuff further down the line in another show But in the very first instance you have to be Either knowledgeable or passionate about the thing that you're writing about also in terms of you know Is it about someone a stage of life is it about you know? Actually, you probably could write a situation about workplace that you have a unique insight to there is still there is still a banking sitcom to be written But no one so far has come up with a really interesting angle to make a show about banking Which is ultimately a very nebulous and difficult to understand thing to work But somebody but if you really understand that and you also have You understand comedy and can make it work you might be the person to crack that and that's great If you have experience of that well same the medical you know Menics often end up writing medical stuff with the real insight So if you have that in advantage you be you'd be crazy not to make the most of it unless of course you're trying to write sitcom to get out That's that's yeah, I mean Banking sitcom remains half written actually I have actually written a script we were always on script with another writer about banking which which The problem was with the feedback we got was that's you know nobody likes bankers Yeah, even allowing for the fact that you don't have to like sitcom characters necessarily Everybody hates everybody who would be in the sitcom so much that there's no there's no way that a commissioning editor would take it That's what that's what we were told anyway But just to come back to that point though about writing about something that you can write about it I do see quite a lot of sitcoms by writers who are starting out about writers who are starting out So I would say try and avoid that really because it might be it might be the good way for you to sort of kickstart your writing But it's it's not an area that's that's so far produced It's probably has actually has been some very successful in one sense I'm gonna have to turn to Katie here who is a younger person than me and it may and it this is so I'm gonna test out how Passionizing this is advice, but I think in general sitcom doesn't favor younger writers anyway I think in order to write the game does that how Stop me if this is getting too patronizing Katie please, but I think in order to write sitcoms You have to have experience of life and other people so that you understand the world from other people's perspectives I think that's that's the thing I think it's really hard to have that age 23 It's actually easier to have it aged that's not in my case I don't know my advice to younger writers who want to write sitcoms is be older Yeah, I think you think I'm sending papers and failure and frustration You've been suffering and suffering it you think if you had an extraordinary life as a younger person that probably does set you up maybe better I can think of two exceptions that probably prove the rule the first one being Father Ted Which I think they were pretty much in their early 20s when they they wrote that yes They've done quite a lot of other stuff before they that's true actually yes They had and the other one was the Lake Debbie Barham wrote a sitcom probably when she was about 18 I think but she was always kind of extremely adult for as I worked with her when she was a teenager and she always had very dark adult thoughts and she wrote this sitcom that could easily have been written by someone 25 years old But I think you're right and I remember thinking myself that when I was doing stand up mostly my 20s And I thought I'm not gonna start writing sitcom until I'm in my mid 30s I don't feel enough as happens to me to in the world to kind of make me Actually, the ultimate Simpson were in their 20s. I think I mean there's obviously I mean Susan Nixon obviously wrote She's great, but also but she used her experience and her life experiences at work and her age to write about people of her age Yeah, so in one sense she did she stuff what she knew and it worked really well The other thing is that it stand up does favor the arrogance of youth I think there's an element of yeah to stand up on a stage and say I think this the world is crazy because of this I mean you're approaching the world is now signed up almost and saying well, this is stupid or I'll see that's not all sick Comments, but this is stupid although quite a lot of it is I think you need that arrogance to stand up there and do it and I'm sure older standard I mean it's look back on that old stuff.
It's not all blind I really thought the world is very simple back then but it kind of works Because it's got that naivety to in a way that actually becomes you've got to show three or four points of view because you need that Conflict you know game will come to that the other time. Yeah, the other thing to talk about briefly though is also it's not only the what's it really about? Being is it something that you can write about but also why is it something that we want to hear about now? Yeah, yeah?
And it's one of those it's one of those really annoying questions that you know writers love to sort of bitch about TV exacts The same really stupid things and meetings and you know, there's this kind of always this sort of why am I watching this show? Why am I interested in your show? Why would I want to watch it? Which he wants to give us because it's funny, you know, which is a good answer But you know they say why would we make the show now?
Why couldn't we make the show five years before to which again you want to answer because I didn't think of it five years ago We hadn't met But actually there is a timeliness to ideas which I think is really important and use and there's a sense in which some shows do sort of capture the mood and the timing is important. I mean With bluestone 4-2, which I co-write with Richard Hurst I think we couldn't have pitched that show much earlier than we did the war in Afghanistan was just starting to tail off I think if we'd been doing it much sooner than that I think it would have been too soon, but I think if we pitched it now, it would feel too late Yeah, so there's a sense in which you know, you the other example of this I'm thinking I've just been re-watching a few of those porridge, right? And I just actually looked up this morning because I remember just thinking what an extraordinary thing it was to say the first episode And we'll talk about pilots and other episodes because that's a wall That's a big thing to talk about Fletcher is talking to God pro about how prison might be being better being in business better than being on the outside And he says could be worse the states this country's in you could be free couldn't you? So I was no work crumbling economy nothing to do but go to bed and increase the population and there's an extent to which You think why did they show how such a resonance actually whilst it was on?
It was a pretty depressing time to be free in Britain because of the strikes and because the industrial action because the shortages of things And they often say what's probably really about porridge is really about little victories You know a tin of pineapple chunks, you know, there's enough in an episode to do about pineapple chunks or the one I saw the other day where he managed to have a drink in a pub because they had to go out and dig some ditches or something You just think oh, that must have just felt amazing to be having a drink in a pub Anything actually there was a timeliness to that show whereby these little things were being you know, these little victories What people outside of it were looking for as well, yeah, because this you know, this country was a pretty It was pretty dire straits in many ways. Yeah, I mean superficially you can look at a show like say friends and just say oh, it's just about a bunch of Twenty something New York is hanging out and but actually what that show do that that show captured a moment And it is that sort of moment where you think well, it's quite a long moment really That's probably why I was so successful But you're kind of in that period of just late 20s mid to late 20s where you're starting to think right Am I gonna become a rock star or am I gonna settle for this nice Comfortableish job and am I gonna try and get off with all these other people or I'm gonna settle down? And it's that is that that point where you're kind of having to grow up that you haven't quite grown up yet So you can still be stupid and irresponsible and create funny situations But there's this thing hanging over you all the time that you know time is running out I mean sort of there in the thing Jim isn't it so no one told you like it's gonna be this way. Yeah And it's only now think about it.
You just think yeah, those people must feel like real failures living in amazing flats in Manhattan One of whom is a professional archaeologist, which is a very difficult job Making a really good living about actually managed to disguise that quite well But it did pick it was probably one of the first shows I think to pick up on that Gap between being part of the family and living at home with your parents and starting a new family and living with your other half and having kids And there's a sort of bit in the middle where actually your family your friends So I think that's kind of a really key. Yeah, keep it and so many people identify with it Which is why I think it still has a resonance for even people as as young as our producer Katie He was still probably seen every single episode friends and he was a paleologist Not like this All the speaking of letters we have an email address, don't we? Oh, right. Yes.
Well, actually just before we get to that I thought we were teasing them with me. Yes, that's great. I think we've been really teasing It's what you said mentioned there were three questions about sort of three hours ago and what's it about what's it really about? And we haven't come to the third question, but we should mention the third question now Which is who is it about?
Because it's the show is always about characters. I'm not going to go into a huge detail about this because we're going to talk in Certainly the next few podcasts will be talking about the kind of characters that you get in sitcoms About very specific type who is your show about? Kind of ties in as well with the sort of what's it really about as well I mean often like the clue is in the title of the sitcom, isn't it? You know, Phrasia who's that about?
You know and but again, it's about who's about yes, obviously about Phrasia But it's about a guy who has got everything but apart from the fact that he's got a stick in this flat with his daddy He doesn't want to be with and it's about porridge being a prison in a sense You know, Phrasia having this wonderful beautiful flat that becomes his prison Yeah, when he's when he's dad moves in so that's one of the what's it really about but Interestingly, I think one of the shows that some you know who's it about when you watch if you watch some Seinfeld Which is my favorite sitcom really I suppose all time I mean, it's it's it's sort of cool and it's called Seinfeld It's not Jerry Seinfeld as Jerry Seinfeld the stand-up comedian and it has Jerry Seinfeld doing stand-up comedy at the beginning of the end But it's actually not about him is it really not really it is about it is about his friendship with George and Elaine and sort of Kramer It's his routines turned into a sitcom Yeah, yeah, no, it is in one sense actually does slightly define explanation in many ways But um, but no it is it's probably one of my favorites too, especially in terms of plotting I think it's amazing But I think also though it's called time for because the reason that show was on is because of Seinfeld and there's an extent to which a Show just does take on a life of its own because Frasier is as much to me about Niles and Frasier It is about that and Frasier They sort of didn't know that when the show started I don't think yeah, and so you know these shows do kind of Move and sort of take on a shape and you know you sort of in even my own show obviously three It's like who who is Bluestone for to about well, it's sort of about Captain Nick Metast leading his team well spoilers he's not in it anymore Does that mean the show is over well, hopefully not we did some of those and so But again, you sort of know in your bones what the show is about but as the writer you do need to know that In general, we know what the show is about the show is about why soldiers love being soldiers And so we have we have a gang of people and you know it's sort of In future episodes, so okay, well, that's we'll leave who is it about for now We'll probably we'll deal with that in certainly in our next sitcom next to come podcast So come geeks podcast will be probably talking about specific characters the main characters if you do have any questions Yes, you can email us on the That's the one yes So So yeah, so leaves a question about anything and eventually we will try and maybe deal with them sooner rather than later Rather than well, let us have to wait for the end so we deal with that question. Yeah, we'll have to wait for the 300 Well, let me go to sort of about 300 emails. We'll be able to do like a one show about them. We just do burn through Yeah, yeah, that's right.
We'll trickle through yeah, so okay. I just just before we leave this podcast We'll be talking mainly about matters to do with sitcom But also we'll be talking about odd things like just what's happening at the moment I just wondered what some of you mentioned you've been Rewatching a porridge. Yes, I think I was getting from that I was watching I managed to find the first episode the other day when I was thinking about pilots I thought well, I wonder how they actually started off porridge and in my head it wasn't quite as I remembered it and I and But that was that was quite informative and then the other night UK gold or someone like that showed six episodes in a row And I think I was doing some mining and I watched about two or three of them It is one of my favorite shows ever one of my favorite British shows just because of the quality of the characterisation I just think is absolutely stunning. So I sort of never tired of porridge So that's that's been a bit of rewatching in general I try not to rewatch too much stuff just because there's so much new stuff that I feel like I'm being unprofessional by going back to my old favorites So so at the moment, I'm trying to watch new stuff I do like to revisit stuff to find just you find things that you don't remember at the time and also you get to see Characters developing if you watch like a box set or something.
It's interesting to see characters develop a very quick You know over like sort of like five years of a sitcom over sort of three months I've been rewatching a cold feet actually and that was that that was stood the test of time remarkably well The thing that is most remarkable cold feet is that it was on it was commissioned The writer had no previous experience but got commissioned to write our long six hour long comedy drama episodes peaks ITV Sunday night viewing and the Back to the island James and obviously became big stars as a result of it But they weren't stars when it was my turn show with no stars no known writer That was a 1998 I think so I remember the first because it was the pilot was half an hour wasn't it no Oh was it I remember James Nesbyn standing in the street with a naked with rose between us. Yeah, yeah But cheeks and I remember that being a really funny hour I remember I thought it's half an hour that's how fast the time So but I remember the first episode being and I in one sense Maybe the reason that they bought it is because the pilot was really really really funny. Yeah, so maybe it is a meritocracy after all Yeah, let's hope for as all yet No What are you watching what have you been watching? I watched Kineshmetz in two days.
You watched Kineshmetz? How many episodes? I think it's 12 or 14. Okay, so you just burned through those in two days.
Yeah, okay I did work in days as well. Wow, that's something I haven't seen yet and that everybody says is absolutely brilliant and you got to see it. And I do not have Netflix? No, me too.
What do you reckon to Netflix and Kineshmetz? Yes, yes. Because I've heard other people say it's sort of like having a very expensive way to make a bin or something. As in you just don't watch I watch a lot of it.
Right. I've heard that. Is it even 4? 4?
I've heard that makes it 3. That makes it 3. It's different because you want to come. It's a 1.0.
In my case it is a 1.0. I don't know. I just had stuff on it and I've got stuff on it. I've got a lot of stuff on it.
I've got a lot of stuff on it. I was just like there's a limit to how much TV I can watch. That's 9.1. It is a bit of an epic.
It is a bit an epic. Unpaid Netflix. You're hoping for some free subscription. So that's sweet 3D action.
Right. Okay. Right then. So Netflix is my job next time.
Get Netflix. Thank you very much Kineshmetz. Thank you.