Episode 18/ Full Interview + Postscript: Jeffrey B. Lilley on journeys of loss and redemption in the Cold War

Published October 17, 2021As a journalist in the 1990s based in Moscow, Jeffrey B. Lilley wrote about the collapse of the Soviet Union and the rise of 15 independent republics. He covered Russia's relations with Asia and reported from three Olympics Games. His first book, China Hands: Nine Decades of Adventure, Espionage and Diplomacy (Public Affairs, 2004) presents a fascinating portrait of an American family’s engagement with Asia in the 20th century. Lilley moved to Central Asia in 2004. During a three-year posting in Kyrgyzstan, he started reading the works of Chinghiz Aitmatov, slept in yurts, drank fermented mare’s milk and hiked in the country’s beautiful mountains. That led to his second book, completed over ten years as he worked in the field of democracy and governance support in Washington, DC and the Middle East. Have the Mountains Fallen? Two Journeys of Loss and Redemption in the Cold War was published by Indiana University Press in 2018. Jeff works as Director of Monitoring and Evaluation for American Councils for International Education, based in Washington, DC. Recorded July 2, 2021Show Notes:03:00 “I found out my dad was a CIA agent when I was 16.”05:08 “I was a child of the Cold War.”10:13 A privileged expatriate childhood in the German colony of Qingdao in prewar China11:44 The desire to birth a modern China through an ideology that was completely alien and antagonistic to the American way.13:55 A father who fought the spread of communism throughout Southeast Asia through a series of covert operations.16:30 A front row seat to the US-China rapprochement and a belief that the best way to deal with China was to engage with China.18:33 Why is it that democracy in China never followed the trajectory that it did in Korea during Amb. James R. Lilley’s tenure?20:21 One of the best American accounts of the events in Tiananmen Square in 198924:19 On being a junior high school waiter at a Chevy Chase luncheon with senior Chinese leadership and George H. W. Bush27:44 The classic Yale gentleman35:30 There are more students of English in Russia than there are of Russian in the United States39:00 Covering Kyrgyz acrobats for Ringling, Barnum and Bailey brothers45:25 Chinghiz Aitmatov: one of the most prominent non-Russian authors in the Soviet Union51:32 The Soviet Union wasn’t all bad58:22 The Islamist threat in post-Soviet Central Asia1:02:33 The borders of post-Soviet Central Asia are as random and problematic as the borders in the post-colonial Middle East1:06:20 The bright, smart and plugged-in younger generation of Central AsiaIn Notes from Utopia:the Tropicalist talks of Karl Wittfogel’s hydraulic civilization paradigm within the Central Asian contextIn the Postscript:hosts Jesse and Madhavi discuss the changing paradigm of American diplomacy Links:The old China handsWan Chai’s famous Old China Hand pub cleared outThe old Yale-CIA pipelineMust-read books by former US ambassadorsParting thoughts for American diplomats: Lessons from 33 years at the State DepartmentJames R. Lilley obituarySmall state power in the digital eraThe new cyber normalThe rise of Information Age statecraftWhy can’t Central Asia reunite with the Islamic world?A brief history of conflict in KyrgyzstanWho was Chingiz Aitmatov? Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.