What if some or maybe many of the things that you know about what it takes to be healthy or maybe become not unhealthy are Upside down and backwards well. We're gonna be taking a look at some of those today on this episode of the movement the podcast for people Who want to know the truth about what it takes to have a happy healthy strong body starting First because you know those things are your foundation and we bring up the propaganda the lies and mythology that you've been told About what it takes to run or walk or hike or yoga or cross-fit or play whatever it is you like to do and do that Enjoyably and effectively and efficiently today say enjoy a leak trick question of course I did because look you're not having fun You're not gonna keep doing it. So, you know, that's gonna be fun is gonna be part of the equation I'm Stephen Sash and CEO of zero shoes calm your host of the podcast and we call the movement because we're creating a movement that involves you I'll tell you how to say about natural movement letting your body do what it's made to do and This simple thing about helping us with the movement part is go to our website www.join the movement movement calm Nothing you need to do to join there's no cost there's no secret handshaking There's no song you have to sing and that's just where we that's just a domain I got that's where you'll find previous episodes all the ways you can find us in social media all the places You can find us wherever you get your favorite podcast basically But more importantly if you want to help and spread the word be part of the movement then give us a thumbs up or a like or a review Whatever it is, you know how to do just basically if you want to be part of the tribe Please subscribe and before we jump in because for anyone watching you're gonna be already wondering I've got a sling on for my left arm because yes I was setting the world dead lifting record and got injured now That's not true all gymnastics injury finally you took a toll on me and I'm in a sling for the next four weeks No, but um, but luckily it's my left hand Which I gotta tell you even though that's my non dominant hand I use it for a lot of things and habitually like once or twice a day I try and do something and go oooh geez, so I'm not supposed to do that so anyway Let's have some fun. I didn't tell you I'm not gonna do any trophy you.
Why don't you tell people who the hell you are? What you do? Oh, well, thank you very much I will happily take the floor on that and you kind of just answer my question about your shoulder I saw the sling and I have a friend who just walked in the gym with a sling on similar to yours almost identical And she's four weeks out from taking it off and I know how much of a bug or that rotator cuff injury is because I've had a lot of friends and family members And clients that have had it over the years so well hold that thought though This one's not even rotator cuff the right one was rotator cuff and bicep this one was all bicep tendon It got shredded and so what they did this is amazing actually They basically took essentially a drywall screw and screwed it into the top of my arm bone my humerus and then attached to the tendon That was still healthy at that spot to that little drywall screw and then cut off the rest of it from there to where it Tashes your shoulder because I don't need it anymore because it wasn't working anyway, and so now I'm not I'm not buying on it unfortunately But I'm a home people project What a good reference that was so after market party still have them and I know a lot about drywall screws I come from a family carpenters and my dad worked in the carpenters union for many many years when I was young kid was kind of Fine kind of find me as an adult with my level of fitness and exercise and I'm passionate about it anyway To rewind a little bit give you a little bit of story of my background. I've been in the health and fitness industry for about 25 years I've been exercising working out to some capacities since I was about five years old and I'm a fitness nutrition specialist I have a bachelor's degree in sport sports medicine to fitness wellness from California University of Pennsylvania certified through ACE ACSM and AFM which is a movement specialist certification I was a specialized in fasting minimalism barefoot running barefoot education and I love to run barefoot and I like to connect to the earth With barefoot as well whether it's grass or whether it's concrete or any kind of aggregate surface other than blacktop because it's an agent Blacktop that stops the earthing from getting the negative I'm going to get the negative I answer the earth and I know Well, first of all look as a guy You and I share something we have a lot of Info about a lot of things in a bunch of different topics some of them under an umbrella in this case Sports and fitness, but I think you're gonna have to stop by using the word specialized, okay Well, like this is one of the I mean I totally get it's just kind of funny It's like I specialize in when you list five seven or things and I totally get it I don't sleep much and I specialize in myself when I say that to it's not necessarily an ego thing like oh yeah I'm just teasing about that.
It's like it's let's say I'm a specialist in generalism I get it For those of you who are not watching the video version this it can't even talk about all these things that he's you know An expert in when it comes to fitness and what he's been doing and you wouldn't know it from looking at him I mean holy smokes so that was by the way completely sarcastic So out of all these myriad things What's the one that's getting the most attention for you right now either for you or for people that you work with complex movement patterns and crossing The body and try to reverse the aging process of the brain which is zero people pay attention to it And that is one of the things I'm trying to bring to the forefront Another thing I utilize our classical training tools like Indian clubs goddess maces and these tools called wands help wands And what I do is I take exercise to a different whole different dimension like a fourth dimension if you will so you've got bench Press is great. They built your chest. I build your shoulders your arms a little bit And you got deadless and you got lap hold downs and you got lunges and you got heavy squats and all these different things that people love to do And that is still that still forms the basis of most workouts But I promise you once you cross 40 years old definitely but even 30 years old You have to ask yourself How is this gonna benefit me in real life and outside the gym and if you're a you in Colorado? I live in Utah We live in like I would call them resort towns sort of I definitely do and everyone here's an athlete everyone likes to do things outside the Gym like to hike they do slacklining canoeing clanging you name it in the outdoors all year round So when someone comes to me and says I want you to train me I'm gonna watch new in the gym I say the first question I ask is first get me injuries second you on any medications And then what you like to do outside the gym and as soon as I ask that question boom eyes go up like this Oh, you know, I do I do five Ks And I like to run and I like to do this and that and blah blah blah and I play football and I play tennis with my wife I'm like great So I immediately say to myself How can I make you better at all that stuff you love to do out there?
It's gonna make your experience better and it's gonna be more fun to you and that is going to make me more successful in helping you So one of the ways to do that is by doing crossbody patterns and training but core and the body in a way that That pertains to more than just like decline sit-ups and like crunches and plank holes So there's an all-encompassing factor like to incorporate in every one of my train sessions regardless if you're five years old or 25 or 55 Or even 80 years old especially people that are aging they've got to work on their balance and flexibility and their brain function And the best way to do that is by crossing the line of the body it lights up the brain like a Christmas tree neuroplasticity It's a logical load. So give people some examples of what we're talking about then Okay, so if you stand up and you simply just like this and slap your opposite hand with your opposite knee from a standing position if you're a That's done again for people who aren't watching Let me clarify. Oh, okay, that doesn't mean bending over to slap your knees with your hands what Kevin did And you're sitting while you do this but saying my view understanding is like for example lift your left knee while you're tapping it with your right hand Correct correct and then flips then flip sides Yes And there's a bunch of patterns you can do just by that so you can stand up and you lift your knee top Tap your opposite knee then you can lift your foot and tap your opposite foot and then you can reach behind your body and tap your foot from behind And repeat that cycle five times in a row and your brain was go pow it'll lay up like a Christmas tree And you're like wow and that's a good way for someone who is wearing a suit working a 16-hour job to get up in the Middle the afternoon and do that movement break and it's gonna Reconal their brain cells just like that it can help them have more work output and they're boss is gonna be happy with them And that's a small example and then when you're in the gym go ahead Well, I was gonna say what you're actually piloting You know when I think about all the things that we used to do that we're no longer doing that we're useful then that we're not that we've kind of Around what you just said is we actually doing the hokey-pokey Hokey and twister are you the best things to possibly do dancing? Yeah, but you're left with it I mean honestly, it's really funny There are a lot of those those really really fun dances that people just aren't doing anymore are all crossbody movements Exactly and the more complex the movement is and the more body you engage the higher endorphin leads You're going to get and the more brain retention you're gonna have so your mood is gonna improve your anxiety is gonna go down Your depression is gonna go down your ability to think and concentrate and your memorization skills gonna go through the roof Especially if you just do workouts that are like all Incorporating these movement patterns and that's kind of how I've I have crafted my style over the years and I've gotten to that point where it's almost all Crossbody patterns and unique exercises.
It's not just like dumbbell clean presses It's like a single leg one arm clean and press where you're on your right foot You're holding the dumbbell and you cross over to the left side your body while people in your left leg off the ground and doing a press above Your head and you do a series here and a series here and they go into a plank and you do a contralateral limerase opposite arm leg movement So crossing the midline of the body and doing contralateral movements and complex movements where you're doing two and three movements combined together Especially if you're doing a rockin and rolling type pattern with your body is absolutely amazing for the brain It's good for the posture. It's good for flexibility. It's good for balance and it works your core in a way Like I said that one-dimensional like crunch cannot afford you or do for you So two things really quick one is just a highlight for people because I haven't really thought about this until now I mean I've done a bunch of crossbody movement stuff over the years But what's one thing that's going on is pretty simple and that is if you're let's say we're gonna be using your right hand to tap your left knee Your right hand is controlled by the left side of your brain Your right knee is controlled by the left knee is controlled by the right side of your brain So the very least you're getting these two movements Sungal famously activating other opposing sides of your brain and then there's a balance component that has to go in to make those things happen So I've had it occurs to me now I've never seen e g or MRI info on what happens when we're doing these things But at the simplest level the fact that you're doing movements that require you to use to Party brain on each side is a certain thing and also another thing for those I can either watch your listening Kevin I don't know if you have anything available to it, but if you have a beverage to get any more energy I think that would probably be helpful for you. I got my water bottle right here.
Yeah, perfect That's the one I was thinking of and by the way for anyone watching please tell people what your shirt says because I totally D-U-D-E like the dude from a Yeah, the dude by the car in front of me at the stoplight on the way to physical therapy This morning had a stick bumper sticker that was the dude by it's not on my brain Yeah, all right, so so so these are interesting patterns and I totally get what the neurological effect could be But can you get them other than doing you know the sort of cross crawl thing of tapping your opposite knee with your not opposite hand And you gave another one that was a number one Give me that one again in slow motion and then if you could throw another one just for fun Just for fun because these are really interesting Okay, so the dumbbell one would be holding the dumbbell on your right hand Yes, I'm standing position lift your left foot off the ground and then lower the dumbbell down to where your left foot was and take your left leg behind you So you're balancing on one leg balance another keeping you're crossing the middle on your body at an angle And then you come up to position like this and you pull the dumbbell in and you pull your knee up in the air and hold it opposite And then you do a press and you lower back in and you come back up and you do a press So multiple things are happening here You have to concentrate on balancing you have to concentrate on crossing the middle on your body You have to concentrate on your form and make sure that technique and you got to memorize the reps you're doing So just think of all that training game and instead of me putting you on a machine Just press machine we wrapped a hand and you set it in and you just push out like this ten times What benefit is that giving you? Yeah, you're building your best and stuff Let's be clear to say that it's not giving you a benefit of course It's a bit of a stretch. Yeah, it is I mean it is making those muscles stronger in a very particular way that can be useful But what you're talking about is a different game than so I don't want to conflate the two and suggest that one is completely bad Because we're really talking about two different universes in a way Right. Yeah, what is demonstrably building strength or size of hypertrophy and the other is really doing a whole What you're driving is a whole different neurological thing that can have different kinds of uses Which and I want to highlight something what you're describing is how do I want to say this?
It was a number of years ago when functional fitness became the buzzword of the day and Try to imitate some of the things that you actually do in your daily life Now arguably deadlifting is supportive grabbing back your groceries and paying them up But what you're talking about is a whole different thing even than that because it's not trying to imitate these daily movements But it's doing things that actually I can see how they would impact your ability to move daily because you're dealing with balance You're dealing with agility or dealing with having to keep these things, you know all in play at the same time So which is really interesting. Yeah, I'm gonna rewind a little bit and then I move back forward I wasn't actually throwing you know the chest presses and stuff under the bus There's a time and place for everything in the world and your muscles don't know the difference between a pushup a seated chest press Or a barbell or dumbbell bench press or any of that and there's a time and place for all of it And yes, you can build strength muscle the whole nine yards and if that is your bowl That's totally fine And I train people who are you know they've balanced issues with their foot is in the cast and I have you know Resorts machines and stuff and that's totally fine. So I don't want any of you to think I'm some kind of lead us and say all It's all crap. It's not a place for everything But what I do not use or specialize what I do love to incorporate into my training You've already changed your life.
You've done it. You've changed me already I've seen the light I feel like some incorporate is a level that's I feel a higher level than functional fitness There's functional fitness. Yes, and that looks or you know any kind of exercise really functional that I get taken for granted a lot that term And I don't really like to use it because you know bicep curls are technically functional when you reach for a glass of kombucha And you go like this especially if it's off the top and it's nice and cold and delicious That's a bicep curl right there light one but you do bicep curls like this and the gym hammer curls exact same thing So everything can be functional technically But hold on you're mind me something I used to say as a joke which is I get called bowling a sport when the muscles you use for that For that activity or the same muscles you use for drinking That's a good one. Yeah, and bowling forever.
But anyway, yeah, I need a bowl again That's a fun sport. That's probably that's got a good bit of neurological load involved too Like the right arrows and all that kind of stuff it's a whole other conversation But yeah, that's a going back to original question I would say you know I the month of July is usually my busiest month in Park City here from a training perspective at the gym because a lot of people Coming to town for the summer or for the month of July for some reason and I kind of put people through protocols They're completely unfamiliar with and like oh my life of the session eyes like this big There's drenched with sweat and like I've been working out this this you know But former bodybuilder owns a gym florida or this guy's from Florida And he's like I don't I've never done anything like this in my life He goes this is so much better than those workouts. He's like I think I'm gonna fire him I go back home like literally people tell me that and like I can you write down all these workouts and stuff? I said I'm already step ahead.
Yeah, I haven't written down I have them all ready to go this case. He's like you are the man and I'm like I am please So because I know complicated they can be and that is the best that's the most fun part He said the word fun earlier. Yeah, movement But I mean it could be the movement movement could be better time for your show and challenging yourself across body patterns Even if you just engage in like one different exercise a week I don't tell people like yeah, you change all your workouts up and just do this completely That's not true It's like start small and work your way upward and try one challenging movement every week work on a crack Or a month even and then add another one and then another one and that's kind of where I started like many many years ago When I was a young scratch strapping Latin northeast, Pennsylvania where I started out I had We're in northeast Pennsylvania scrancy will spare area. I know it very very well I went to a summer camp out there.
No way. Yes, no a little bit outside of screen Maybe 20 minutes outside in Shaohola, Pennsylvania, which is really Pennsylvania Which one of my best friends calls me one day he made a bunch of money and he said hey I'm in my I just bought a summer house. I said where is you'll never guess it You won't notice in the middle of nowhere Pennsylvania so where he goes told Shaohola, Pennsylvania I said give me a beer walk outside your house take a right walk for a hundred yards and tell me what you see He goes it's the interest to capture a whole over boys. That's why I went for six years So so well that you could well to in lakes area.
You're talking about everything But we're going independent that because I'm sitting here with this thing going on on my shoulder What you just what you said about people's eyes lighting up and just having much fun I'm doing the dumbest version of what you described right now I have a pulley where I'm just holding the pulley with my left hand I'm using my right arm to pull my arm up and down just for passive range of motion And when I do it, I just get blissed out. It's like a very mild form of doing some you know Contralateral stuff, but you're right. It just does something in your brain that is just really really pleasant Yeah, so my wish to everybody is always just try to do some form of crossbody patterns or movement on a daily basis And it doesn't have to be complicated could be bodyweight like I just mentioned Oh, and you asked me before to give you another example, right? Yeah, okay So I got a great one lying on your back you grab two kettlebells and you do a chest press and you hold them like this up in front of Your chest like this and you raise your legs up in the air And what you do is you lower your right arm and you'll winch it what your legs to the left as your right arm is coming down Then as your right arm's going up your left arms coming up and your legs are coming up and then we go at the opposite direction So when your legs winch your leg to the right your right arm is in the air and your left arm is coming down and then yet completely opposite You go back and forth and a seesaw pattern and your legs going away and your arm goes the other way That's a brilliant.
It's in my protocol right now. Yeah, I'm doing it. She loves it It's like one of her favorite exercises. How have you either found or developed these things?
I was about to study the story about Pennsylvania back early 2000s I was confined to a small space in my mom's basement where I had my my DP wakes up from high school still there I was working for a glass sculptor at the time I was heavy into fitness and lifting and like studying Exercise nutrition died to hold on yards. I lost my job with him and then I got ready to fit in health and fitness I mean got my degree I got certified holding on yards But I was going over to her house She lived on my own half and where I was living at the time and I was working on her basement instead of going to the gym That was right next to the place where I used to work for convenience sake I'm like well, I'm not going to do anymore cancel my membership and whatever so I ended up having to work out in the small space Maybe 10 foot by 10 foot old DP weights that we had a pull up our made out of wood that my dad made And we were like boy scouts and we were young kids under the stairway and then I had this beam in the open floor system in the basement And the height of it I barely had enough space to do a press I had to go in between the bays to do a press like this So there's like a beam right between me and I do a press and the close I get the dumbbells was an inch and a half apart So it's time to go form where they went clank together So I had to get creative is the bottom line And I'm like what can I do to get great workouts with minimal equipment in a lot of body weight and I just started It was I was like a mad scientist down there I was like Einstein trying to figure out a reinvent the label of electricity And I just started doing crazy exercises one foot one leg cross body things from plank positions I'd be doing renegade rows and I was one leg is I'm doing a renegade row and I decide lateral raises and That's kind of where it all started and then just like I told you you you start small and you grow tall And I started out with small basic movements And then I got more complicated more complex as time went on and then I'll just start staying in my brain And here we are 20 years plus years later And I've accumulated quite a catalog and a cyclopedia of movements exercises that I could resort to just like this So that's kind of what happened I can imagine I can imagine though I mean so at what point were you starting to train people and when did you inject these things and I can imagine if it were me That the first time I was gonna say to someone hey, here's this crazy thing for you to do There might have been some trepidation at the very least. Mm-hmm Well, I probably I mean I started factoring these kind of movements and right at the beginning of my career Probably like oh one or two to a small level and what I realized was I got someone sit on a bench and do the Flat pull downs and that's great So I'd have them do that and I'm like let's do something a little bit more complex So I have to get into quadriplets on their hands and their knees with a pattern of their knees and then I'd have them extend their arm And they lay out like this with their arm and leg and perfectly straight line And then I have bring their help needs their elbow and I have a shoulder spine I say squeeze around now extend back out and have you like 10 and 10 on each side and they get up and it's my And they're like they're really excited about it Like wow that was a cool exercise. I never did that before nowadays That's a pretty common exercise I feel out in space But a lot of people don't know why it's cool and one of the reasons why is because that cross body effect Like frankly Christmas tree so both enemies to bring it little they do something like that And then I have to do lapels at lapels again And then that's how I started integrating it in with workouts and I would just do unlike someone's like well my balance is crap I need to fix my balance when I was interviewing them before we train I'm like okay Well, I'm you do standing Also in March and bicep curls so you're gonna hold on bells and then you're gonna do a bicep curl and you're gonna lift your right leg Then you lift your left leg and that may seem simple to you or I but to the average person has never done anything like that Other than just standing still it makes it really complicated because like wait Which leg was it and you'd be shocked and how people fumble around and they can't get like you the simplest pattern So I kept integrating little things like that into workouts and then it came two or three movements I became four and then people came to me specifically like I saw you training this guy and you're doing this really weird exercise We were spinning over in a plank position a pointer need or elbow blah blah blah blah I'm like I want to train with you.
I'm like okay cool I want to learn some of those patterns and it just eventually evolved to a point where I do predominantly my workouts apply 90% That's often like 10% conventional or beefcake, whatever you want to call it now So that's how it happened. I like conventional or beefcake But more you've given me my favorite multiple mixed metaphor ever of Einstein reinventing the light bulb that is that there's There's so much to unpack in there that I absolutely door. So this is this all really fascinating most of thinking it occurred me that there's another phenomenon a neuro phenomenon that we're talking about these patterns Which is whenever you are trying to learn a new movement pattern like you're you've got one that you're kind of ingrained with and you're trying to learn A new one so to go from running you know over striding the regular shoes to proper natural running form either barefoot or Footwear there's a feeling that we get that we label frustration Which is what's going on when you're trying to break out of an existing neural pathway on a new one But what you're introducing is something that's so novel. There's not an existing one in place So I can easily imagine that's one of the other reasons why people have this somewhat euphoric experience because that laying down to something new that opening something new Is really fun.
It's like I have let's say I have nominal experience with drugs basically none But I do know and certainly people talk about this if you take some drug MDMA or whatever You might be taking the first time is like holy crap And then often after that's not quite the same because you that first time of laying down that new neural pathway is the mind-blowing thing And after you've got that one you're kind of just going down the same path and it's not gonna have that same pattern interrupting You know novel thing so you're introducing whole bunch of pattern interrupting novel things Which again can give you that really you know super fun experience as you're doing things that are valuable Yeah, totally and there is a very fast effect of these three-dimensional dependence that I'm describing For example people that I have doing them in the first time I have them do it in a session They're like sometimes all over the place and they're frustrated and even get angry sometimes not at me Just at themselves like I'm so uncoordinated level up. I'm gonna do it like a third literally the third time through and they get it They get up and it's like I can't believe I did that I can't believe I got it I said all you gotta do is be calm she'll just worry my friend so practice makes perfect But perfect practice makes even better perfect and when you do this It's like it's got a faster trying investment you can get these things out in faster than you think and you have the first time you learn something It's like going to a dance class or a swing class or something. You're gonna be all over the place in dance class Or you know learning instruction from somebody but as time was on you're gonna get smooth and you're gonna get better That's why dancing is super good for the brain, too Yeah, there's there's research that came out probably about 13 years ago right if we started the business and It was from Kurt Erickson who was the University I think of Pittsburgh at the time don't hold me to it and he had been studying elderly people who either walked or didn't walk and Not I mean because they couldn't walk me they're like had a practice of walking for some time every day or they didn't and he tracked these people And maybe he gave them a sign that maybe you know People had half of them do a walking practicing other not I don't remember But the interesting thing is he was he did a brain fMRI at the beginning of the study I said a long study and on your study and along the way and again at the end And what he found is that people who were walking retain more gray matter in their brain And I asked him why he thought that was and he goes the stimulation from walking both You know moving your body and just what you see when you're around You know you can't get to pay attention to what you're walking on what you're walking in where you're walking and what you see around you In a way that otherwise you don't have and I said him imagine what would have been like if they were barefoot and he's like Yeah, we didn't have the cash to recreate that time cash or time to recreate that study to see what the effect would be but Seem pretty obvious that adding the extra stimulation about it would be interesting. Yeah, and also when you're walking you're doing a contralateral movement It's like you're right on the leg right on left opposite opposite So anytime you do that the similar to crossing the midline contral lateral movement is just as good So those two components right there have you walking and if you're walking outside then you've got Eagle therapy You're exposed to the Sun to the wind to the smells out there The evergreen trees that the foliage in the wind in the fall the petro core and the summer when it's raining all these different factors bleed into it And that all improves brain function and in my opinion it refers to the aging process And I think it's quintessential for you know people talk about biohacking That's a big buzzword.
I've been doing biohacking some form by hacking for decades and it's all this big huge buzzword It's all you hear about is biohacking on whether you're versated process 30s and new 50 All these different by source of 50s and 30 and all these different things and I'm like well Yeah, that's true. You just got to go out there and walk for 20 minutes a day get some exposure It's invited me to be boosting your system. It's all very simple basic things really You brought up one that I mean our very brief conversation before we started this chat that I definitely want to hit on Especially with the intro about things being maybe not quite what you think. Let's talk about the Sun shall we?
That's let's talk about the Sun. All right. I just gave you the intro Europe. Okay.
Well, I just spent I would say eight months in a row with heavy heavy snow and darkness here in Park City We broke the record for a snowfall all-time record. You're in Colorado You probably had a similar effect out there, but like we didn't have two consecutive days of Sun for like I think it was eight months in a row March it's snowed every day except three days and believe me I love snow again the wrong but it just kept dragging and dragging and dragging and see seasonal fact of disorder is a big deal It's a big thing It's very serious I actually did YouTube video on it back in like March to try to calm people down because all everyone I knew My clients and like friends and people work where they're just so they just are getting really frustrated angry mid like March and stuff And I'm like you realize you're getting affected by seasonal fact disorder, right? And some of them are like looking around left and right they think about it I'm like it's been snowing since mid-October. It's been dark We haven't had any much Sun and everybody loves snow in Park City, but most people were complaining about it eventually Like it's just too much.
I'm doing over it I'm sick of this like that. I can't get around traffic and I just all I stay calm the whole time I'm like I just gotta stay calm and recognize it and keep awareness going So seasonal defective disorder is a big deal and it should be treated as such and I like to do anything possible To keep my mental health high and I try to encourage other people to do the same thing So that's very real and it needs to be addressed And I don't think that's addressing not either and the crossbody patterns work perfectly for that too. Well, there's another thing that you mentioned about being in the Sun Oh, yeah, well, this Sun. Okay.
Yeah, so it's nothing. When you're laying up the sky. Yes. Yes So what I was getting at was there's a big lack of thunder in that whole time and that's why people are getting that was a major reason why people Are getting this seasonal fact disorder?
I suggest getting as much sun exposure as you can a minimum of 20 minutes of sun exposure on the front side of your body and backside You're like every single day that the sun is out a maximum amount of skin exposure to the Sun and yes Sports shorts are totally fine one of my rituals every day in the summer non-negotiable and I tell everybody this that I work for and I tell clients and everything I need to have that sun exposure. I need like one hour day to lay in the Sun this way laying a Sun on my stomach I'm good. No sunscreen. No nothing if I'm gonna be out for multiple hours I have as you can see no hair So I will put sunscreen on my head my nose my ears like areas that are gonna be like a sunscreen beating down But I use organic sunscreen with all ingredients I can pronounce or I'll use a butter or I'll come up with a concussion That's all natural clean because I do not like a mission sunscreen or Sun whatever the stuff is called Sun block whatever the heck it is all those chemicals I don't like them the Sun the skin is biggest organ in the body it absorbs everything in sight What you want your skin to absorb is the Sun itself and when that happens vitamin D gets released in the body vitamin D is a very important Neutrient for boosting the immune system boosting brain health boosting hormone function in males when men are exposed to the Sun for I think it's 20 to 30 minutes with as much skin exposure as possible testosterone rises by 210 percent ever that I study once I don't remember where I just Remember reading it and that is miraculous especially for guys that are 40 plus 50 plus and so on They want to get a natural boost of testosterone easiest way to do that is laying the Sun go for a walk in the Sun So that and the reason you're moved booster the roof is because of the vitamin D being released in your system That's a mood booster.
So any of you out there listening or watching wonder why when you go to the beach your mood goes through the roof It's not necessarily because you unplug from work and you have a week of freedom It's because you're probably in the sand you're in water. You're smelling nice smells from the breeze of the ocean coming in and you're getting sun exposure So you have a multitude of factors happening. That's boosting your mood right there So what would you say to people who like my wife are pasty white world people? Mm-hmm and for her literally 20 minutes in the Sun especially in Colorado.
She'd be practically literally toast This is an easy answer you start with five minutes and you work with notes. Just look at barbie too Fine, fine. I mean actually I don't know. I mean she she just she avoids it She's you know Northern European is super super white and very very sensitive to it Others I'm the opposite.
I mean I'm totally fine. I rarely get burned, etc Yeah, well like I said, it's you build your build immunity up to it Just like anything else so I would start out with like five minutes at a time test test her levels she should test her levels see how long she can tolerate it and then just slowly increase it and then in the event that she doesn't need a sunscreen or some kind of blocker I would just get something that's organic and clean and stay away from all the you know hydro benzoic blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah That I can't pronounce whatever those long words are you have a clear of those we should we should definitely make some sort of supplement where the ingredients are blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I think that'd be very interesting to see we've noticed. That is probably no one even care.
And then at the end it says, zinc oxide. Your results, my very. Yeah. Results, my very.
So we haven't taken down fitness, but we've got a new level of fitness. We certainly added something new to play with when it comes to sun exposure or, you know, because people have definitely been told, say the hell out in a way that is arguably, quite arguably problematic. FYI, here in the Denver Boulder area, for us, I don't think we've had that kind of, haven't seen the sun in that long. But what's so funny is, if we have three, maybe four days of not sun in a row, the newspaper headlines are apocalyptic.
Fortunately, it's like being in Seattle, and they start freaking out. But the headlines about how horrible the world is. They're like four days of not seeing the sun. People lose their minds very quickly over here.
Wow. That is a fast return. Now, normally in Park City, during the summer, it's usually gorgeous here. Sunnial, clear skies, blue.
And we had a good run from like June 26 until about two days ago, it was clear and beautiful. Finally, I was like, oh, I just drank it all in. I loved it. And then it got cloudy again a couple days ago.
And now we're back to sunny again. And it's supposed to stay sunny again. And I hope it just keeps on trucking all the way to the world. But we'll see what happens.
Yeah, we will definitely see what happens. It's definitely different than it's ever been here. So now we're the middle of July. And it's unbelievably green.
The hills are all green, which is so rare. We've had it happen once in August where things were still green before they got all brown. But this is like, I've been here 30 years. This is like the second, maybe third time I've seen things being this green this late in the season.
Yeah, it's crazy. It's crazy good, actually. Because it's actually a parmuretant. No complaints.
All right. So what else is on our things that you specialized list that make people go, hey, wait a minute. What? I would say it got health.
I think we should talk about that health. But according to the, I don't know who it is, CDC or somebody out there, NIH or somebody, the average amount of fiber, daily fiber intake is 25 grams for women, 30 grams for men. But wait, wait, you think that's the actual average? That's what the recommendation is.
Yeah, that's what it's going to say because the average is like nothing for most people. Yes, correct. And not enough people pay attention to dietary fiber in my opinion. It's like the unspoken nutrient or mineral, I guess you would call it in the diet that's missing for most people's diets because the average person is more fixated these days on macros.
I gotta get my macros. I gotta get my protein. You can see these influencers and these health and fitness experts on YouTube plasting up the place and they get really close to the screen real seriously. They're like, always prioritize protein, always prioritize protein.
That's all they talk about. And you see real after real after real about this has 45 grams of protein and blood amount of carbs and keep your carbs down if you want a little long life. And I completely disagree with that. I think you should follow a balanced diet and every meal should be balanced with a good source of protein and a good source of carbohydrates and healthy source of fat.
But I think you should prioritize fiber because most people don't get 25 to 30 grams. I eat two meals a day. I follow a time restricted eating protocol which is a form of fasting and I literally get 55 to 60 grams of fiber a day. Not protein.
I get enough protein. I get, you know, I don't count this protein. If I was to count anything, I would count fiber. I try to get them in them on 55 to 60 grams.
And the reason? Well, no, for the reason. I'm going to prime you so you can keep going after you say the reason is for many people, even the idea of what you just said seems incomprehensible. So you definitely have to say how you're packing 55 grams of fiber into two meals.
Okay. Okay. So let's talk about the importance first. When you have the high amount of fiber, it's able to work its way down into your small intestine when you have the higher amount of fiber and it populates the good bacteria in your stomach.
You may know it as probiotics or gut flora and probiotics actually exist in your stomach already. People always tell me, oh my gosh, I'm going to hold foods to get probiotic. And I'm like, no, you're not. I'm going to go and buy a supplement that's going to be found in a sewage system somewhere down the street in a day or two.
That's what you're buying because I don't believe probiotics are the catch all do all to improving gut health. It's a multiple stage process that involves eating prebiotic foods, increasing your fiber intake, slowing down the frequency of your meals, meaning eat less meals and slowly increasing your fiber intake. Just like your wife, when I said five minutes of sun exposure day, start out with 10 grams of fiber day for getting zero for getting five grams a day. And then do that for two weeks, then increase the 15, then increase the 20, then increase the 25 because people like I'll be able to eat less of a day or a bad gas and everything else.
You will if you go from 10 grams of fiber to 60 overnight. Yeah, of course you will. But you slowly work your way up, your stomach expands, it gets used to it and you're off to the rates and then you're good to go. And once you get to that level, it's easy to maintain it.
So how do I get that many grams of fiber in two meals? I incorporate cillion powder, number one in my first meal of the day. And in that first meal, I also have a high amount of fiber in there such as berries, bananas are prebiotic, they're really good. And then I have other things that have a good amount of fiber in them.
I use plant-based protein powders that have that just a enzyme to build into them and they have a good amount of fiber. So I eat like 20 to 25 grams of fiber and then a second meal, I'll include things like beans, I'll include things like whole grains. I eat these low-carb wraps that literally have 15 grams of fiber each in them and I'll have two of them. And there's 30 grams right there alone.
So my meal ends up being like, I can tolerate 45 to 50 grams of fiber in one meal because my body's adapted to it. And over time that's how I get it. So it's a slow, progressive process. And I do a lot of cruciferous vegetables which are high in fiber as well, like broccoli, cauliflower, kale, Brussels sprouts and these different things, all of which also help males specifically lower the estudile levels in the body which helps increase testosterone by default.
So that's a little hack for like reversing aging process and keeping hormones optimized as well. So that's kind of how you get to that point. And then if you take a probiotic and your gut is already in good shape, you're going to reinforce the good gut bacteria by having your probiotics. And then I eat things like sourcraut, kimchi, tempeh, kombucha, I eat a lot of fermented foods, pickled things, like olives and like pickled beans and stuff like that.
So you want to incorporate all these kinds of foods in your diet and all that stuff contributes to better gut health. And then if you were to trigger your system with a 24 hour fast once in a while, it sends a bunch of, well, popular stem cells through your gut to help populate the good bacteria as well. And that is the trick of the trade as well that comes in the fasting. You have a thought on resistant starch.
Love it. I think it's great. I'll just talk about it with a bit of a story. Many years ago, like 25 years ago, there was a bookstore involved that was closing and I went to see if I could find something.
There was a book on resistant starch. And the idea was basically you can have all the carbs you want and they're going to be good for you. And I'm reading this thing. And the gist of it is that when you take a starch like even pasta or rice, anything that's behind carbohydrates, you cook it and then let it get cold.
When it's getting cold, basically the carbohydrate molecules rearrange themselves into something that's very hard to digest. And I'm reading this going, that sounds like the biggest piece of crap I've ever intended that I've ever heard in my life. And I just put the book down. It was a dollar.
And 10 years later, resistance starch became like the big thing and showing what an amazing thing it is. And so like the idea of a cold pasta salad left over spaghetti. I mean, all these things can actually be really good for you because suddenly you're not digesting as many of those carbs. Not that carbs are bad, but you're getting more fiber as a result of this, which, you know, people thought was completely crazy.
And here it is. It's a real thing. So that was ahead of its time. And I was a little too dumb to recognize it.
Well, when you're describing also potatoes falling to that category. Yeah, people are scared of that. The potatoes are scared of corn and carrots and stuff. I'm like, take a potato, cook them.
If you're scared of them, put them in the fridge overnight. It's going to do exactly what you said. And it's also going to lower the glycemic index of potatoes as well. Right.
So if you want to enjoy your potatoes, even cold, high cold food all the time, love it. I love cold pasta. I love cold potatoes. Cold sweet potatoes are amazing.
And you think it's so funny to say that we have a whole bunch of cold purple sweet potatoes. Love them. They're my favorite. Oh my God, so good.
Yeah, they're the highest in antioxidants too. The purple ones. That's why I like them. I did not know we just have someone in our office who was trying to make a business of doing purple potato, purple sweet potato recipes and products and whatnot and did not go as well as he was hoping.
But still does it just as his daily life. And so he's always giving us these purple sweet potato. I don't even want to call them. They're not brownies, but they may as well be because the purple sweet potatoes and a little bit of chocolate and oh my, oh my, they are good for you and addictive.
That's interesting. You mentioned that because I met a guy a few something like five years ago who was in Park City who was a friend of a friend who was launching a business. I thought it was from Hawaii or something. And he had like these mush things that were made from purple sweet potatoes and he had chocolate and like all these different flavors.
And it sounds very similar what you're talking about. And I don't know if that's still up and running or not, but holy smoke. They were delicious. And they're like a dessert.
Yeah. And just totally perfect. I mean, I'm completely addicted. Yeah, they work.
They work good and smoothies to be honest with you or see my balls and like, they're very versatile. You can use them multiple ways. And I have in fact, my wife has been putting them in her smoothies. So she doesn't she's not a big fan of doing I'm a big fan of frozen bananas and smoothies.
She is not. So she's doing purple sweet potatoes and same effective kind of making a little more thick, a little more rich, a little more flavorful. Yeah, it's a good one. And I do not have your purple sweet potato business.
Oh, okay. I'm just saying. Yeah. So we got sun.
We have non functional functional workouts. We've got anything else we want to jump into. Shall we talk about their foot running? Yeah, I've heard of it.
I've heard of it. I mean, there was a book. I don't know what it was. There was a song from Springsteen, something.
I don't know. Something about that. Yeah. I just, how did you discover getting out of your shoes and doing something with your bare feet like running?
Well, it started for me around 2008 or nine is when I started to get entrenched in it. And then by 2010, I was completely on shod and I'd never looked back since. No pun intended. But one of the biggest things I noticed from my transition from shoes to no shoes was when I'd run with actual shoes on and just strike any which way.
I would be toast for the rest of the day. I like to do hill repeats and like on ski pills and stuff and sprint training and that kind of thing. And I would literally be like my legs just be burned to a Christmas exhausted entire lethargic store the whole nine yards. And literally the first time I did like a forefoot strike run when I went through the whole transition period, I noticed I didn't have nearly as much pain in my legs.
And my exhaustion level was way down. I was like, what just happened here? And then there's something to this. Then I got rid of my regular craft shoes with the big spongy heels and I got myself some converse all-stars and I started running with a flat, a flat, sole shoe, zero heel drop.
And then I got even like the painting got even less. And then as I got thinner and thinner with my shoes, I worked my way down to like a one millimeter shoe. And I'm like, I can't believe this. I have like no lethargy in my legs whatsoever the rest of the day.
And then when I became completely barefoot, I was like, this is why is no one else doing this? Why does the world not know about it? And I'm like, any impact factor, like my knees would hurt, my hips would kind of hurt when I'd run the shoes on. All that disappeared completely.
I mean completely. And I'm now 50. I'm still running barefoot. And I'm like, I never feel joint pain with my knees or my ankles or my hips, none of that stuff.
I mean, I got a couple of nagging injuries here and there, but nothing compared to what I did when I was in my 20s running with shoes on. So all these are the companies occurred and I was like, oh my goodness. And like when your foot actually touches the ground, the earth, it just feels so, you just feel so connected. It's so different.
And your mood literally goes up. It's like, you know, we get to bait all day about the earthing and like electrons and neutrons and all that stuff hitting your body and pressure points in your feet and all those different things. But just the fact that you're barefoot and you're connected to the earth, it just feels different. And it makes you even that runner's high in the endorphine release you get when you run period, it's just 10 times more magnified when you're barefoot.
And the all those benefits are rolled into the fact of why I did it and why I started transitioning because I really started to study, why do you, why would you want to run barefoot? And it was because of like the aches and pains during the day that I wanted to transition and see what's different. And it was different. And it really spoke to me.
So, and then I started working out barefoot in the grass doing kettlebell workouts and circuit workouts and dumbbells and work down my mom's basin barefoot. And I would be barefoot in our gym, but I'm not allowed to be. So I wear one millimeter shoes. I just slip them on like slippers, which my vote for zero shoes is next phase of your business you should create a zero shoe or like a one millimeter slip on.
Well, I'll tell you the simple reason that we don't. It's because people do everything you can think of in every shoe that we make. And we go down to one millimeter. The joke is our 5000 mile sole warranty is if you wear the soles down to less than a millimeter, we'll replace them for a significant discount.
But when you go down to one millimeter knowing that people are going to go do things in the shoes beyond what you're describing, they're going to blow through them in no time. Something durable enough for people to actually use them and enjoy them. But the closest thing we have, we have both our, we have a Genesis sandal, which is about four mill, which is crazy flexible and lightweight and all the rest. And then our speed force training shoe, which is the shoe I race and train in as a sprinter.
That's about four and a half mill. And the thing that's fun. I mean, I have one pair of the speed force I've been racing in for three seasons and they're still great. So, you know, part of our thing, one of our goals is to keep things out of landfills because with footwear and apparel, there is no real green solution.
There is nothing that's really beneficial to the environment. There's a lot of people who are saying that the things they do are, but when you look closely, it's not quite what you think. I mean, we're using hemp canvas, for example, it's been in cotton canvas. We still use cotton occasion.
We still use wool on occasion. We will do things that are made from recycled plastic, but we do not claim that we're changing the world because the recycled plastic is definitely taking trash out of the ecosystem, but it's not carbon beneficial at this point. So, you know, there's a, it's spicy to say the green story is much more complicated than people that wanted to be. And there are people who are taking advantage of everyone liking simple stories by saying how they're saving the world by, you know, doing something that is not as beneficial as they actually claim.
But anyway, so that's a bit of a tangent for why we're not doing something. It's one mill at the moment. Gotcha. That makes sense.
I get it. And by the way, hemp is a, that's a touchy subject of me as well because years and years and years and years, I'm talking like in the 20s and 30s, hemp was the crop that was used for all paper products and, you know, materials for clothing and everything. And then the newspaper companies started getting lobbying against it because they were losing money and bank and they wanted all the power and money and they somehow got all the power and the money. If we started cultivating hemp, I'm not going to jump on my soapbox too heavily, but if we just started cultivating across the country, across the nation and went back to using hemp crop to make all the paper products, all the clothing and everything else, it would, like, it probably reversed the pollution epidemic we have and all the global formula in front of us out there and like, get rid of the paper products.
Yeah, I don't know if it's going to do that, but what it would do, it would free up a lot of water that's being used by more water-intensive props and that would be a big deal. And it is a plant that grows very fast and has, like you said, so many uses. It would definitely be beneficial. And, and you're right, there are, there are financial slash political forces that are in the way of that happening at the moment.
So, what's really now, the good news is that in the apparel space, it is being recognized as a valuable commodity. And so, I think over time, we're going to start seeing more of that and more products that are made from materials that are, or from crops that are less water-intensive than say cotton. Hemp is one, but it was another, I mean, they're handled. Yeah, I love it.
We'll see. But these things do not happen quickly, sadly. And, and the other thing, not only did they not happen quickly, but there's a bit of a problem because the community is going to adopt these quickly. I'm going to be a bit glib and a bit obnoxious when I say it this way.
It's usually a bunch of rich white people and, you know, they get on their high horse about how they're saving the world. And then once they start seeing, you know, hey, I'm wearing hemp, my friends wearing hemp, they think the job is done because they're in, you know, their own little environment. And there's actually, I complain about this all the time. We have some investors and they keep saying, you know, we really want to sell your sustainable story.
I said, no, no, we're going to talk about how we make things that are durable and good for you and using less energy, et cetera. But that's not what we, what we build our brand on. Our brand is built on natural movement. And the companies that are building their brand on sustainable are frankly typically lying.
And, and they keep saying, you know, yeah, but people really want that. And I just read a study maybe two days ago that came out saying, yeah, most people do not make buying decisions based on sustainability. Over 70%. Yeah.
Right. Think of the right price. So. So anyway, that is a whole other thing.
How the hell do we get on a hemp? Where did that come from? I forgot where we were. I was talking about the middle of two things.
Barefoot things and then one millimeter, et cetera. So now people, if they've been paying attention, will say, okay, so you've got mostly barefoot, but we were talking about all the snow in Park City. So what are you doing when it's cold and snowy, et cetera? I just wear regular winter boots when I'm like, shoveling snow and stuff.
But when I'm going around town, I wear a commercial stars or like a zero heel drop shoe, hard rubber sole. I haven't owned like a pair of, I never owned a pair of Nike's because I never supported Nike's. This is my personal preference. But any kind of spongy workout shoe or cross trainer or those jokers, I'm not going to say the actual name, but there's a shoe that rhymes with joker that I don't really like that.
I see people walking around in and like, oh, I got all this pattern. I'm like, look at me. And they're all smiling and stuff. I'm like, yeah, that's great.
You're still pounding your heel into the ground and every single shock, the feel goes from your heel all the way up to your neck and you may end up with back pain or neck pain or shoulder pain coming down the road when you cross the 56 year old mark. Those shoes are, I just cringe when I see people with them and they're so like spongy and I'm a big kettlebell guy too. And the kettlebells, you should be the barefooter, absolutely have a zero heel drop shoe on at the most. So you want your feet to like grab into the ground and those big honky shoes.
I don't give up brand it is. Holy smoke. This is still damaging for the foot. And the toe boxes are like this and people get bunions and like all these different things.
I'm just like, chic. It's, you know, the reason that they became successful is twofold. One is it's an easy story to tell people and you like cushioning. Here's more.
More has to be better. And the other is simply that the foot industry is a bunch of uncreative copycats. So if something starts to take off, everybody jumps on the bandwagon because they're literally afraid they're going to go out of business if they don't. So what's happened, like there was a trade show back in December for foot manufacturers and every performance that we're company had a big, thick giant padded shoe because of the ones that you're mentioning that started taking off a few years ago.
And it's become a bit saturated. And the research is now starting to come out to prove everything you just said, which could not be more obvious if you know anything again about physics or kinesiology or anything else. But yeah, it's very again, consumers like a simple story. Yeah.
And cushioning feels good. Sit on a memory foam mattress feels good. Light a memory foam mattress feels good. Clearly that's got to be good.
If I put it on my feet and it can feel good. But like certain things that you eat, you know, it tastes good and not good for you. Everything with your feet. Yeah, totally.
That's whole other thing. And so I want to highlight though, you are smart, which means that you're not going to be doing crazy things just because you have an idea that you're supposed to be barefoot all the time. You do what you need to do in the appropriate circumstance. So that said, there's a video of me.
I start promoting it every fall where I am shoveling snow in one of my super thin sandals, but I had tricked. I'd go out until I felt cold and then I go back inside until I felt warm. Then I'd go back out until I felt cold. It would always take me a little longer than I'd go back outside until I felt warm, which took a little less time.
About like the fourth time I'm out for half an hour, shoveling snow and that's fine. And similarly, this is true for heat and cold. If it's super hot or super cold, I pay attention to where I'm parking my car and what it's going to take to get from there to the entrance of what I'm going to. And I just spend a ton of time outside in bare feet on 100 degree pavement or on 20 degree pavement.
I like, you know, think about it and arrange accordingly, which it's amazing. I talk to people and they go, I don't want to have to work that hard. It's like, what do you just, you know, parking, you look for where the white lines are and you walk on the white lines. Yes.
I've done it many times. Yeah. When I, I have kind of a cut off line of when I feel like it's safe to run barefoot out here in town. I'm like, I'm running for 100 feet and then put it back on finish and run and then go 200 feet and then go 600 feet.
And it's the same exact thing with heat and cold exposure. Expose yourself for 30 seconds one day, then try to get to 45 seconds the next week and then in a minute and then two minutes and three minutes and keep on going. And I have run in the wintertime barefoot too. Look at him, I'm nuts and I'm like, oh, it was like 28 degrees.
Still it's going to be a beautiful sunny sky. And in that case, I do want the black top to be hot and it worked out perfectly. It's completely out of the summer and I'd be out there chugging along barefoot and it was absolutely perfect. Well, I found over the years, it definitely seems like I have more capillaries and my circulation has changed because when I'm out in the cold, my feet are almost always fine whether I'm barefoot or in sandals or whatever while my hands and head are freezing.
So it's definitely things definitely change. And that's similar. I just thought of it this way way back when 40 years ago I was doing biofeedback and I learned to change the temperature of my hands or my face or whatever. Just buy, I mean, I can't even try how you learn to do it by having a device attached to you telling you what your temperature is and then you do a relaxation technique and just eventually you brain figures out how to change the way your blood is flowing.
And I think this is just a variation on that same idea without the equipment, just the feedback of what is called barefoot Kenbob. He likes to say numb feet or dumb feet. And so that's the thing to pay attention to. It's like it's not like we're building up calluses and thick skin.
We're just learning to pay attention and make intelligent choices. Yeah. And I get that question. I don't mean to go off topic, but people sometimes ask me or they see me running barefoot.
Look onto Jim, like, can I just see running barefoot up in the main street? I'm like, yeah, I was mean, like you had no shoes on your bear. I was like, I know I'm barefoot and you're like, your feet must be matched to a pole. You must have like huge calluses of luck.
I'm like, you never even know what I'm going to my feet. The bones and the muscles remodeled on your feet. You get used to it, you adapt. And it's not everybody thinks you don't have like dirty feet.
You don't have like mashed up feet. Doesn't make them smell any worse. Actually, your feet are cleaner. Yeah.
It's when you're stuck in a sock and a shoe all day. That's when you're developed bacteria and all around your feet. And that's not good for your feet. You should have your feet exposed to the some other nature as much as possible.
So it's completely opposite of what people often think. You know, your feet aren't mashable, pull up and all the kinds of stuff. I mean, in the beginning, if you're pushing hard, yeah, maybe you're going to get a little bit of callous thing and stuff like that, but it all goes away. It's really that is the perfect perfect to come full circle to many of the things that we think are the opposite what they really are.
So on that note, if people want to get in touch with you and discover more about what you've been doing or do any work with you, et cetera, how they do that, you can find me on all social media channels, Instagram, Facebook, TikTok and YouTube under Kevin David Rail or fasting for fitness. That's where you can go to rail or AIL. Correct. And fasting for fitness spelled out or with the number four spell that F O R and I also have a website called fasting for fitness.
Health, which is fasting F O R fitness. Health. You can find me there too. Well, I do hope people check out what you're doing because I love what you're up to.
And especially because it's just counterintuitive because it's creative. And if you really look into it, there's nothing that you're saying that is crazy. I mean, there's really, you know, you can really draw a line between from the things you're describing two things that really do make sense of you to start looking into it with any degree of curiosity and scientific mind. So much, much appreciated.
So definitely check out Kevin on social media on his website, et cetera. Let me know what you experience when you do. And for everybody else, just a reminder, head over to www.jointhemovementmovement.com to find out more about places you can enjoy the podcast where we are on social media, where you can leave comments and reviews, et cetera, to help us spread the movement about natural movement. And if you have any questions or recommendations or comments where you can drop me an email at move, M-O-V-E, at JoinTheMovementMovement.com.
And until then, just go out, have fun, and live life-y first.