Hello, I am Paige Abaniac, editorial director of Promax, and this is the Daily Greek Podcast. Today, I am so happy to be talking to Keith Gassett, a lot of my girl. He is co-founder and she's creative officer at Lowell Passbar, and we are talking about his new book Summer Yes, Search for Belonging in a World Shape by Branding, and High Bay Eye, and Good Eye, give your title right out and release it for Christmas time. No, no, no, it looks like a slightly type of choice.
Good job, me! Yay! All right, let's get into it. What inspired you to write this book?
And actually, because it's a little precursor, it's interesting because I feel like, so you were on the podcast like early pandemic at the time and we thought we were going to be inside for three months, and we talked at that time about the importance of symbolism. And it's interesting because I feel like this book is an extension of that discussion, which I think was something that has obviously been on your mind. So now go ahead and answer the question. What inspired you to write this book?
So yes, you're absolutely right. I think early pandemic, I was in the middle of writing this, and it definitely was on my mind. And as you correctly summarize, you know, this is sort of an extension of that. And really, frankly, the book came out of my extreme dislike of public speaking.
That's too bad for you because you're doing a lot more of it now. I know. So there was just a thought that I sort of needed to be a little bit more public facing and I should do more conferences and things like that. But as I mentioned, that's not really my cup of tea.
So much what I gave at her broke my business partner connected me with an old friend of his who was a speaking coach. So I started working with her and I was probably four years, maybe five years ago now, and I started just sort of putting down thoughts around branding and identity and other things that were sort of swirling in my brain. And then sort of halfway through the process or almost all the way through the process, I realized that I much rather prefer making stuff than talking about making stuff. So that's when the idea sort of came up and I said, you know, to my coach, Jill, I'm really sorry, but I don't think I want to work on this talk.
I want to work on a book. So then, you know, those thoughts and sketches and notes that I put down were sort of the basis for that. That's kind of how it evolved. Did she tell you like too bad because then after you read both, you have to go out and talk about the book?
No, we did not, we did not discuss that. I wish she I wish I wish she brought that up, but you know, it's not so bad. You're okay. All right, so very briefly, because we want people to read the book, but just give me a little summary of what the book is about.
I did another interview recently and the person interviewing me described it as me grappling with my work, which I think is what it is about. No, but on a series, I mean, I think it still is that most certainly, but you know, if I had to distill it down, I would say it's about branding, but also the fact that branding is bigger than brands, meaning we're all really familiar with the tools and in the book, and again, this is something that I've thought about for many years now, but I define it as branding as the purposeful shaping a public perception and usually in sort of an exchange for something of value. So value in that sense doesn't have to be dollars and cents. It can be social currency or likes or followers or votes or power ultimately.
And through that lens, it really almost anything that sort of happens in a public forum is shaped by the tools of branding in some shape or forum. So I really try to take a kind of a bigger view of branding as a process and then brands as much more than just sort of commercial entities that try to sell you products, if that makes sense. Yeah, I mean, we're going to get into this as it goes because what you end up talking about is so much bigger than the idea of commercial brands. But I also think you really talk a lot about branding as identity and the distillation of identity.
And so whether you're a corporate brand or you're a person or you're a movement or your politician, there's a certain brand that gets attached to you. And then how you shape that and choose it is a different process. But let's start, I'm gonna back you up a little because I thought it was interesting at the beginning of the book, right at the beginning of the book, like on the first page, you talk about how kind of about your own personal branding and how you maybe felt disconnected with your own personal branding and that you are from Switzerland and you have a name that you feel like it's challenging as a person with the name Pajabaniac. I relate to that.
Can you talk about how you've adapted to and reconciled those two things about yourself so that it's all, if it is, the fits that it's incorporated into a whole or that you feel comfortable about what your personal brand is as an extension of your background. I'm not sure I have reconciled those things. I was going to say, have we? Yeah, so I think we all struggle with some aspects of that to a certain degree.
I do feel, you know, sort of looking back, and I've thought about this a lot actually, obviously, you know, just actually trying to get that introduction, right? But it's a weird thing in the sense that I've never really felt, you know, at home in Switzerland, and I feel like especially in the language, and it's another strange thing. I really try to sort of think back, and I just remember my brain sort of constantly looking for the right words, if that makes any sense, but I just never quite, you know, feeling comfortable with it. So English feels better to me, and then design feels even better than that, meaning that I feel like ultimately, even though, you know, I words are very important to me and very important in my work, I do feel like that being able to express that visually, that's really where I felt where I feel most at home, you know.
So in that sense, the reconciliation of all that stuff is my work, you know, graphic design. So, you know, I feel like in many ways Switzerland sort of lives up to its reputations, it's clean, it's organized, there's a sort of social order, you know, in most cases, and I definitely need some of that, and I think some of that is in my work, but I also need a bit of messiness, you know, something that isn't quite right. So I feel like in graphic design, and then secondly, also in New York, I think that's where the reconciliation happened, I think, for me. That's good.
That you felt, you know, I think some people never find that reconciliation or find those things that feel like home to them, so it's good that you're able to do that. What part of Switzerland, like what Swiss language was your native language since it could be free? So I grew up in the very northeast of Switzerland, about an hour and a half northeast of Zurich, close to late constant. So it's, you know, native language is Swiss German.
I don't know how familiar you are with the Swiss languages, you speak Swiss German at home, but then all the media and school is in, you know, probably called protocol proper German. So there's a little bit of a disconnect there already, and I've explained it this way to my, to people who ask why I don't speak German or Swiss German to my kids is that I feel like it feels like a very schizophrenic way of, of sort of organizing your life and your information around language, you know, where you speak one at home and one at school. And that's, I think, another challenge that I found. You could really run far at the able to topic.
So I'm going to, I'm going to say back in, but it's interesting to me because, well, first of all, I'm a, I'm a writer, first and foremost, and I'm not very visual. Like, I appreciate visual arts, but I'm not personally, like that's definitely not my chosen language. So it's interesting to me that given your option, you would use, you would use symbols or you would speak visually. And then also, I do what I think is so interesting about languages lived in France in my junior year.
So there was, and I just realized it was very hard to be in my personality in a different language. Now, unlike you, like you started very early with your language, I think that would be easier, but it's just interesting trying to, you're right, live in two languages and you realize like, Oh, my personality is completely different in this other language and you don't express yourself in the same way. I guess until you get extremely fluent in it. Yeah, no, I think you're absolutely right.
It's really, and I, and I absolutely, you know, that there's tons, known as benefits to being multi-lingual and all that, but it's, I feel like, while it definitely makes things easier, traveling and that, I don't know, for me personally, I find it, I find it challenging more internally, I guess, you know, because yeah, you're having to switch between these different modes of looking at the world, which I think is hard sometimes. Okay, so then I'm going to sort of go away from that, but sort of connected to that. One thing I think is very interesting about this book and something you and I talked about a couple of years ago, the one thing that this book touches on is this idea of identity, identity politics, and then what branding means to that. So, and I feel like those identity politics are about people feeling pulled to and attached to certain sets of values.
So, why do you think that's something that's emerged so strongly right now? Why do you think people feel so strongly about identifying themselves against certain sets of values? And then why are we in this constant? If you can answer this, then like you win the prize of the world because this is a really hard question.
Why do you feel like people, I mean, I just like wearing this constant debate, right? Like people are very angry at each other because they hold such separate sets of values and identify against them. And I just wonder is, you know, I feel like that's something you grapple with in your book. What are your thoughts about that?
Yeah, I mean, you're right. This is a really hard question, probably more for a social scientist than for me really. But you know, I mean, I have some thoughts on it. You know, I feel like, you know, to a certain degree, some of this is a new, right?
I mean, people have put labels on it. Not new. It seems new, but it's definitely not new. Yeah.
Yeah, people have put labels on other people for a very long time, right? Like, you're a Muslim, I'm a Christian, and therefore we can't possibly view the world through the same lens. So, I need to go with, I need to go to war with you, right? Then we get the crusades, you know what I mean?
Yeah. So, that's not new. Why does it feel so prevalent right now? You know, I also, I try to read a lot of things, you know, one of the themes that has popped up again recently and in some places is this kind of period of cultural backlash after the first black president, right?
So, yeah, you know, it seems to me like the political right is pushing really hard against sort of minority groups of all kinds and sort of public public and ugly ways. And then that leads to when people attack each other, they sort of go into their corners and, you know, it actually makes it even harder to find middle ground. But in terms of something that relates a little bit more to what I'm talking about in the book, I have this one section where I feel like, and again, I'm not a social media expert by any means, but I do feel like that through social media, we've built really, really powerful tools for shouting, right? Everybody has a megaphone, but we don't have, we don't have equivalent tools for listening in any shape or form.
So, I feel like that's not helping. I feel like, again, I'm not an expert on this, but I think people are scared. You know, I think the pandemic has exposed the world as a much more dangerous place again than we've been accustomed to. And then when people are scared, I think you need something to sort of believe and trust in.
And then at the same time, when everybody out there is shouting, maybe we just listen to the loudest shouters, you know, I don't know the ones that are screaming about mask mandates and election fraud. It's strange. It's something that I, and there's actually a bunch of topics ever since quote unquote, finishing the book that I would actually like to dig in much deeper, you know, because I realized too, because I'm jumping, I'm covering so many different topics in the book that, you know, in some places, I'm not really able to go as deep as I would like to, but this is something where I want to keep thinking deeper. Maybe who knows, maybe it'll be a second book, but there's a lot more there too, to uncover for me at least personally.
Well, then I'll just be more public speaking. So you should really consider that. Yeah, no, I know, I know. Okay, so I kind of plunged you into this identity politics piece of it, but let's go back to basics a little bit.
So, as I do think you may dispute me, but I do think you are an expert on branding. So, can we talk about to you, what are sort of the basics of good core branding? What do you look for when you are building a brand? What do you think are sort of the most important boxes to check when you're building a brand?
Wow, this is like, yeah, it should be totally in my wheelhouse now, right? I can be like, this is like grilling. This is not what I signed up for. At the end of the branding process, I feel like you, and I think I have that in the book too in somewhere, right?
Like, great brand is really difficult to sort of take apart, you know, after it's done, right? Because it really works, it works, everything sort of works together pretty harmoniously, you know, in terms of visual language, in terms of the actual words that are being used, the sort of verbal behavior, if you will, there's animation involved, there's that, and then also behavior, right? And it's a sort of rituals. So it can be kind of hard, it's kind of taking apart after the fact, but when I approach a brand, it's about distilling everything down to its essence, and then ultimately trying to find a visual expression for that.
So, you know, it's about simplification, it's about carving away everything you don't need, it's about getting rid of everything superfluous, and then really finding that sort of single expression, which in most cases is the logo, which then is the, you know, the sort of visual marker for all that stuff. And then the rest needs to be aligned around that logo. You know what a branding project you did that, I was thinking through this whole interview and it finally just came to me, but a branding project you did that I thought was just beautiful and a perfect example of what we're talking about, and for all the people out there that do better with visual language than spoken language, this one makes sense too, but the Magnolia Network logo, which is based on the silos that are on the property in Waco, and they ultimately and conveniently look like an M. And so those turned into this very simple, perfect, distillation of the brand, I think that really makes the point of what you're saying.
It's that was one that, in some ways I do feel like you were blessed by having those others out there, they just worked out perfectly, but it is a nice example of everything that brand is, I think. Yeah, you see, now you're absolutely right. And now this is just another representation of how I like to, yeah, talking about a specific specific. Yeah, exactly.
So talking about this specifically, I think you're absolutely right, right? It's, and that one was super fascinating because again, we did, you know, hundreds of M marks. And at some point, and it is actually, it's a perfect case of when sort of a visual expression and the soul of a brand kind of come together into one unified mark ultimately, right? Because the silos are sort of at the heart of the Magnolia Empire.
They're also physically at the heart of, you know, the sort of campus they've built in Waco, then ultimately trying, you know, finding, you know, the right sort of visual portions for all that. I mean, that was another, you know, that was also a little challenging, but it's overall, you're absolutely right. That is, that's to me is a perfect example of how to distill the brand down to its essence and then give it physical shape and physical form that then is simple and recognizable enough to be a marker in the world. So thank you for bringing that up.
Well, the silos too, I think really, to me, when you look at it represents that feeling of like, I don't know why, because I have no silos near my home, but hearth home, you know, it's all very, it feels a little do-it-yourself. It's, I don't know, it's all those values that I know is about cooking, you know, being, I don't know, comfortable being the family. So yeah, it is a really good encapsulation of the brand. But do you think, I'm saying about this too with branding, and I know for myself, I just weird need to categorize everything.
Like, for example, I'd be listening to Spotify, and I'm like constantly putting songs into playlists that I never listen to those playlists ever, but I just need to put them in a category. Do you think that's a part of it with branding that appeals to people? Like, they want a way, and I also think this actually applies to what we were talking about a little bit with the identity politics, is people want a way to sort of quickly assess what it is they're engaging with. I mean, do you think that's why people need branding attached to branding?
What do you think that is? Oh, I absolutely think so. I mean, there's no question about it. To me, I mean, and again, I've been thinking about this a lot, right?
And, you know, I mean, this may sound like a cliche too, but our lives are getting more complicated, right? And more complex, and there's so much information out there. I think we need a way to kind of organize, I think, not just the world around us, but ourselves. I think that's what sort of buckets with logos on them are really helpful.
There's no question to me that that's part of our desire to label things, right? I mean, I talk about that in the book a little bit too, you know, I mean, it starts out with language, you know, that language we use it to label items and physical things in the world, you know, and then now that we don't seem to have much time to really digest language or full sentences, you know, now we stick icons on things. So absolutely, I think that's far. And also, that's why another question that you asked is, I say somewhere in the book, without brands we'd be hopelessly lost.
That's my next question. Yeah, that's exactly, I think you're exactly onto it. You know, in many ways, branding their markers in our physical and digital lives, right? They're sort of, it's wayfinding, right?
It's very basic, it's very basic functions of, yes, we don't need to go out into forest anymore to like hunt and gather, but we still need to collect or, you know, buy food, so and we need to buy clothes and other necessities. So in that sense, brands are a simple wayfinding tool in our world. So there's no question about it. Don't you feel like, also, at least for me, as I get older, I find like, I need a stripping down.
I need like, there's so many things that can pull your attention and your time. And you realize, I have very finite time. So how can I strip this all down to make it as sort of simple and streamlined as possible? And in a way, a brand that you know what that is, you relate to it in a way that you do, you observe it, you move on.
I want to engage with this, I don't. I feel like it helps sort of with that decision making process. Oh, absolutely. No question.
You know, it's funny. I was just, I mean, the process, and I have been in the process for the last couple of months of switching from my one password, keeping app to another. And yeah, which is ambitious. But literally the very first thing I did when I basically rebuilt my password list is like, okay, I'm sticking a logo onto each one of these things.
So like, I instinctively know like what I'm looking for and that I have these visual cues. And it's a tiny, tiny, tiny thing. You're absolutely right. But you know, if you can like shave off a couple of seconds every day, you know, or every hour by sort of simplifying things to these visual markers, I think.
It's not even a time saving thing to me. It's almost like a thought and energy saving thing. It's not, I mean, yes, I want to save time. But I also just, I can only sort of entertain so many thoughts and ideas per day.
And so I'm sort of actively strive to not that sounds really lazy. But do you know what I mean? Like you really need to like, literally go through and do what I need to do and not get too way late at any point. So however I can get there, the easiest, I'm going to take it.
But I think that also lends itself to what you're saying about brands being a way, a wayfinder. Yeah, I mean, I, you know, my way of dealing with that is to basically just have a one-color wardrobe, you know, like jobs. Yeah. Yeah, well, well, not quite as, not quite as, let's say, consistent as that.
But you know, at least I don't need to, yeah, it saves me energy, it saves me energy in the morning, because I don't need to, you know, spend it on deciding what color to wear, for sure. So in the book, you said, you mentioned this, you say without brands, would it be hopelessly lost? And we kind of just talked about why that is, but you also say in a much smaller point, which is very thought provoking, without brands, would we be free? And what do you think?
Well, so we talked about the first question, right? So yes, physical wayfinding, you know, markers in our world, right? So that's, that's helpful. There's also less sort of less kind of obvious ways.
Obviously we talked about, you know, just not physical markers, but also just kind of emotional and markers or labels that we use just language for, right? So I think though all those things are important. I asked the second question, because it relates a little bit more to the identity piece that we talked about before. Yeah.
It's less so the physical markers, right? Because I think it would be harder to navigate the world without those. But when we, you know, quote-unquote brand each other by sticking labels on other people, right, we tend to reduce people to one thing. Democrat, Democrat, Republican, Christian, Muslim, capitalist, socialist.
And you know, that is one of the issues with branding, right? You asked me earlier, you know, what I think is, is a good brand. So it is about distilling and simplifying, right? So unearthing the essence of kind of finding a visual expression of that.
But it does flatten complexity. And it needs to do that, right? It needs to do that because it needs to quickly read as something that you can identify with that resonates with you emotionally. But when we do it to people or policies or discussions about environmental policy or whatnot, I just wonder if reducing everything down to these sort of visual hits or visual sound bites.
I just wonder how much we're losing. You know what I mean? How much complexity are we losing? And this isn't an novel idea, right?
To like say, okay, well, I label you from a certain political party. And that's all you are to me. That's not a new idea. But I just I don't know if if that isn't contributing to some of the sort of the polarization that we we're living with right now.
I don't know. It just seems to me that we currently we're screaming and yelling at each other in sound bites. And I mean, that's a good thing. I think it takes it back to the social media point you were making.
That there's yeah, they're not just for listening. There's also even like amongst my own friend groups, I feel like back then we had more political discussions like in a text chain. And there was no you would say something and there was no ability for nuance to then like these fights would erupt. And I think that you're right.
And I also I also wonder and I think this is what you're getting at is does it even make our brains less able to comprehend complexity? You know, I think that I think everybody tends to be like back in the day before there was social media. I was even thinking like back when they were writing the Constitution and they had nothing to do with it and right, right? They thought about these topics very deeply and have these nuanced conversations.
Well, maybe they did. Maybe they didn't. There was definitely propaganda back then. So I mean, but given these tools, I do think it sort of reduces conversation to it's simple and possibly it's worst or not.
It's not it's not helping people engage in conversation, but I don't know. I sometimes also feel like people need to be somewhat accountable. You can't just be like, Oh, because literally left me speak in 280 characters that I can only think in 280 characters or I can't seek out a New Yorker article. You know what I mean?
Like, people have to also have the ability to think of themselves critically assess, have curiosity, etc. I'm really starting a fair, a far bit. No, but you're I think you're absolutely right. That to me, that's why to me, I think, you know, sort of a big part of this is media literacy, you know, it's education.
I call it brand literacy too in the book at some point. But the point is being not just take every sound bite because that's what that's what's offered to you. But also, you know, having the ability and understand the importance of just questioning things a little bit. Okay, where does the sound bite come from?
Who's yelling at me? Why are they doing it? Is there something is there something a little bit deeper, you know, that I could engage with. So I definitely think that's just as important.
Yeah, that's a that's a larger, it's a larger issue. Why do you think it is that? Okay, so you've gone through the process of branding something or a brand has existed for a long time. Let's say this happens quite often, actually.
And then the brand makes a misstep or you hear that something scandalous has happened to the company or I mean, any one of the stories on top of the media about things that happen with brands. But I feel like definitely for me, when those things happen, I always felt this profound sense of disappointment and more particularly, let's say it's like a published and you believed in and then you realize like, oh no, actually not complete fraud, you feel this sense of disappointment. Why do you think that we as people attach so much appoints to these brands and then get so disappointed when they don't live up? I mean, I think that's a great question to me, branding, the process of branding is also sort of the process of getting to a certain kind of truth.
And branding and brands can only be built on a foundation of trust and truth, in my opinion. So it's like you see a mark that you feel comfort in knowing what you get, right? That's why some of these, you know, some of the most famous marks and brands in the world are things like the cross for Christianity or the McDonald's arches, right, or something like that. But it's like they're so powerful.
And I feel like we as people commit emotionally to brands. I mean, obviously that's a spectrum, right? Like buying a pair of sneakers. If you're not committing emotionally to the brand, it's like not working.
I mean, the core thing it has to do. Absolutely. I realize it's a spectrum, right? Like buying a pair of sneakers is very different from like committing your life to, you know, a certain religion, but like it's a spectrum, but still there's an emotional investment and connection that I feel like when that trust is broken, it's extremely disappointing.
And I relate so much to what you said. So my family, when I grew up, my dad always bought Volkswagen cars. That was just like, that's what he did. That was his brand.
Yes, it's German. And you know, it's, I don't know, my dad was kind of also, I think, you know, trying to define his brand. It was sort of like, you know, it's a little it's not quite as flashy as an Audi, but it's sort of in the same space, but it's a little more anyways. But when that scandal happened, I talked about that in the book to that when that scandal happened a couple years ago with, you know, basically coming up with a device that would cheat the emission testing system, I felt, I felt sad.
I mean, I was, I was surprised, I was surprised that something that sort of removed, you know, would like affect me, but to me, it was like this brand that I grew up with, that I, to a certain degree, I also sort of wanted to kind of carry on the legacy of my family. And I'm like, I can't buy folks. To me, that was a profoundly disappointing experience. And I mean, it seems super, super silly.
But I feel like when when the trust is broken, of something that you've invested emotionally in, I think that can't be extremely profound. No, I think that's right. I was going to say something like, because I'm a psychiatrist, which I'm totally not, I was like, it's also disappointing that like the brand disappointed your dad and that's a whole thing. But yeah, I mean, that's, that's a, yeah, that's a rabbit hole, but that's a rabbit hole that neither one of us are qualified.
But I think the trust piece of it, I actually think the trust piece of it is sort of at the core of everything you're saying in this book, because, and I think if we go back to the politics part of it, the trust piece of it is what people play with so much to really manipulate or get their way. They use the trust to their advantage in a lot of cases to manipulate situations and people. And so, you know, that's different than brands doing it. But I think ultimately it has the same effect, which is, it's all undergirded by trust.
I mean, just like so many other things, relationships, trade, currency, crypto, it's all under, you know, that's all underlined by how much do you trust the system? Absolutely. I mean, I have, again, it's just the small keys in the book, but just the idea, just think of everything, like every day of how much trust you put into other people and systems and technology, the trust that somebody else is doing their job, right? A trust, the trust that like a bus driver isn't drinking before they take on passengers or like, you know, the trust, the trust that a food chain or a restaurant is sourcing their, you know, ingredients from an unpolluted source or just all these, it's literally an ecosystem of trust that, you know, that's the only way we can sort of live and navigate this world.
And that is why I feel like, again, obviously on a spectrum, right? But like, when people sort of break that trust or institutions break that trust, I think it's damaging and hurtful, you know, for sure. Well, even like, we've had all these, well, the hearings on both people say about genomics, but I think it's also tied to the election broad question, to the quote unquote big lie. And that's another example of like playing with trust, because if you don't trust the elections system, how do you trust that you're, how do you trust your democracy?
And then how do you trust your whole, the whole system that you've grown up believing in and like, kind of props you up and keeps you go, okay, that's handled. And now I can move throughout the rest of my day. And so when you're even questioning that, I think it does make everything feel so much more complicated. Oh, absolutely.
And listen, I mean, we talked again, this is a much, much bigger question, but we talked in the beginning about, you know, yeah, polarization and why, but I also feel like, and I tried really, really, really hard, I even tried it in the book to like not make it overly political. And I try to, when I now speak about it, make it not overly political. But I really do feel like in the last few years, right, what has happened is a loss in trust across so, you know, and trust so many different parts of our lives, that it gets really, really, I mean, at least I felt that too, is like, if you don't know anymore what your leaders are saying or what your leaders are claiming. And if you don't know if the virus is dangerous or not, if you don't know if it can transmit through the air or not, or if you don't know, it's your, I just get so hard.
What the CDC is saying is true. And you never actually question the CDC in the past. Yeah, exactly. And I feel like the amount of energy that we've all spent questioning and double checking what we trust and who we trust, you know, is extremely exhausting.
Yeah, I was just talking to somebody recently, I know this getting a little off topic, but for anyone who has kids, just I've thought about this, just the emotional energy it's taken these last few years to, to assess risk, right, of like, okay, can they go to school? Can they not go to school? Do they need to wear masks? Do they need to isolate?
Do they need to take a test again? It's so exhausting. You know, and I feel like, I've said this to somebody recently, it's like, I feel so tired of these years, you know? Yeah, yeah.
All right, so coming to the end of this, just because otherwise we can talk for the next six or seven hours about the destruction of society, but what, I mean, this book does, so as if you guys are listening, you can see it because this book covers in a very like visually appealing and easy to digest way, but it covers a pretty broad swap of topics. So for you, like, what are some takeaways you would like people to take on this book? That's like, I feel like flashbacks to my editor asking me those questions. I am an editor, so.
I feel like I really, I would be happy if somebody said, okay, I've never thought of it that way, right? I don't, you know, and again, I don't listen, I'm not, I don't have solutions. I have takeaways in the book, you know, of a few sort of specific things that I think could, you know, might be helpful. I, you know, I don't have necessarily solutions.
What I would say is, if somebody, you know, if you came away with, wow, I really have much more of an understanding of the power of brands and branding and by extension messaging in the public sphere. And yes, is there a way that we can use this for good, rather than just for profit? Because I really do feel like branding and brands connect human beings in a way we've never been connected before. And sure, there are, there are other ways we are connected through cables and roads and airports.
But I feel like the power of brands and symbols and visual markers and sort of the emotional worlds that any of these open up, you know, for us as individuals, I feel like we can harness the power of branding and communicating clearly and truthfully to address a lot of issues because that is the other thing too that I feel like not to get too existential. But I have one part of this book where I just try to like zoom out really far and just if aliens came and landed on this planet, like what they just say, wow, why is this species just like fighting each other every day when like their planet is falling apart, you know what I mean? Like, so point being I feel like it's such a powerful tool. It's, you know, I believe in design and branding so much and I believe in its power to connect and I believe in its power to solve a lot of problems we have currently.
So, you know, if any of that comes across or anybody is inspired to help me think through this a little bit more and see what we can do and help each other, that would be amazing and I'd be happy, you know, if that came across in some shape or four. All right, so we will leave it there. But again, this book is called Summer Yes, The Search for Belonging in a World State by Brandy. When is the book actually out and available?
It's going to be out July 12th. It's it's available for pre-order right now. You can order it on Amazon, Barnes & Noble and yeah, I actually have a final copy here with my hand. Oh, wow.
Yeah, but yes, you can pre-order it now and July 12th, it'll be out. Okay, okay. And then on the on brief, I'll post some things like the Magnolia Brands people can see remember what that looks like and some other things we talked about. All right, thank you so much and congratulations.
That's awesome. Paige, thank you so much. I've yeah, I've done a few of these now and public speaking is getting less scary and but on the other thing I would like to say is that each of these conversations actually sort of helps me understand things more about the group and about this so I really appreciate it. Of course, that's my pleasure.
All right, have a wonderful day for you. Okay, bye. That's it for this episode of the Daily Brief podcast. If you have suggestions for conversations, please reach out to us on Facebook and LinkedIn at Promax Global or on Instagram and Twitter at Promax Undersor Global.
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