Hello, I am paid to help enact editorial director at Promax, and today I am joined by Jason Rotman, he is president of customer experience agency definition six, and with them is Chef Ogden, co-founder and CEO of Digital Media and Influence Company off the immediate group, which is a mark Cuban company. Hi guys, how are you? Great, thank you. So today we are going to dive into the fun and new and somewhat complex topics of the metaverse, and we're going to discuss why the metaverse and also AR lenses are such a big opportunity and entertainment space and a pretty new and unknown opportunity.
So thank you guys both for joining me and welcome. And so Jason, just to start, we have done this before, but just to lay the groundwork, give me a quick reminder of who you and definition six are, and then step one, Jason is done, jump in and do the same for off of you. Perfect. So Jason Rotman, president of definition six, we are, as you mentioned, a customer experience agency that really focuses on technology, analytics and creative slash content.
From a creative and content perspective, we do a ton of work in the entertainment space across production, post-production, creative development, you name it, and we work with amazing brands like ESPN, CBS Sports, Nickelodeon, Paramount Plus, HBO, TLC, and the list goes on and on. So in terms of content, we produce, on average, I don't know, 3,000 pieces of content per month, so really have that scale and beyond excited to be having this conversation page with you and with my old friend, Chef. Not that old, but okay. Sorry.
Great to meet you. I'm Chef, CEO of Opie Media Group here in Atlanta. My Jason mentioned we got to know each other a few years ago, but yeah, here at Opie, we've been doing content for the last eight or so years, first starting in memes, and then we're really, really moving more towards serious, creative, like content over the last three years, that's become avatars. That's the moment of reality.
We've now created AR activations, we've created avatar activations, and we've created content that reaches billions around the world in every corner. That's really what we're helping brands do as well, we've had opportunity to work with major brands on McDonald's, and she's a factory in DoorDash, and a lot of entertainment companies, lots of times in the music industry, but the technology we've got to power these avatars, that's just really, really excited about this industry and partnering with Jason here. And then do you guys, Jason, do you want to say how did, obviously, you guys are both at least some of the time in Atlanta, so how did you guys come together? Yeah, so I met, Chef, I don't even know if you remember the story, but I met Chef, basically it was, was it four or five years ago, I think.
Yeah, yeah, we were introduced through one of your investors, who advisors, who I know, you and one of your partners came in to talk about virtual influencers, and it was without a doubt the first time that I'd ever heard any mention of virtual influencers. So the conversation definitely had me on the edge of my seat, and I was extremely interested in it and a believer in what the concept and utilization of virtual influencers could become. And since that time, Chef and I have stayed in contact and continued to kick ideas back and forth, really focused on how metaverse and Web3 are evolving, but also on how the specific use of virtual influencers can continue to help brands connect with consumers in a more meaningful and ongoing manner. Okay, so that's a good summary of what we're going to be talking about today.
Thank you, Jason. So, Chef, what is a, I didn't have that conversation. I think it's a virtual influencer. Yeah, so a virtual influencer is a first person animatic director is living his life throughout the internet.
So primarily social media, but it's built for the sake of influence. So instead of it being, you know, you're trying true, just like digital mascot, it's attached to a brand. This is selling a first person story and living on social media. And that's really what the important piece is, the important piece here is you're taking this more traditional animation technology, really building it for online, building it for influence, building it for where we're living, and it kind of breaks that barrier of it being on the TV screen, you're actually being on social media where you're swirling each and every day.
So when you say influencer, when I was watching some of the clips, it wasn't like, I mean, I'm sure this is a spectrum, but when I was watching some of the clips that wasn't influenced over anything specific, other than sort of just interacting either on Instagram or Web or the influencer was. So when you say influencer, what do you mean specifically? What is the goal? What is the goal of that avatar?
Of zero, specifically after we have any virtual influencer. Yeah, so each virtual influencer usually has a different mission or a different journey. We like all the heroes journey and just just as you would have any great story. Lots of influencers are more focused on fashion or they're focused on telling a story about something meaningful that they believe in.
I'm like, there's a bee influencer out there that's focused on saving the bees. Zero, for example, you know, he's like, I mean, he's hanging out playing games every day. So he's reaching and building an influence with people that love games, you know, we can hang out and interact with them as this avatar. And then also there are more traditional brand mascots.
Like we've seen some really incredible brands launch virtual influencers that are building fandoms of hundreds of thousands of millions of followers. And that's one of your traditional mascots that they're doing it from this first perspective. So each time you think about influence and what influence means, I think at the root of it is community building, like being able to speak to a community anymore the first person away versus just, you know, hitting a program over and over with brand sponsorships or paid ads on these influencers really allowed to build that relationship. And I think that's usually what the sake of this virtual influencer is really sitting on.
Virtual influencers currently exist in the internet as we know it. The metaverse is sort of a new iteration of that. Can you say with yourself, can you discuss sort of where where zero lives, we're going to meet zero in a little bit, but where zero lives currently on the internet and how that works, how he interacts with his followers and his community, et cetera. Yeah, so zero, zero lives in this place called the Nexus universe, he's stuck in a bunker right now.
And this is a work made up world that we created. And you think of it as as a universe, I was like, that's really where he says, but what's important is he's, he's telling us when we're creating content inside this bunker each and every day. And that content is being distributed just like normal influence, will it to Instagram, to TikTok, to Snapchat, to Twitter, and a little bit to YouTube, you know, all in all, you're launched in February of this year. So roughly the Santa Claus scale, and he has a little over 400,000 followers so far.
And reaching knowing the people every single month, a lot of this content by now has been focused on Snapchat. So we have a great partnership with them, but we are actually about to go really, really hard on Twitch, where he's actually live streaming, interacting with people each and every day. And then when you see, actually, let's go a different direction. When you, what do you see as the metaverse at this point?
Let's discuss what that looks like, and then where you're going to see virtual influencers live there. So can you start with your stuff, and then I will then let Jason speak him. Yeah. So the metaverse is a really broad term.
It's really hard to define. And the way I like to define it is you first have to think about the building blocks that make it, you get augmented reality, you get virtual reality, you get avatars, games, cryptocurrency, NFE, the immersive worlds, but most importantly me, you have to think about it at the point in time. And the point in time where all those building blocks that I just talked about really turn into, they're very ingrained in our day-to-day lives, and our digital lives start to become as important as our physical lives. So like, the metaverse for me is really starting to become a realistic thing.
As a Gen Z entrepreneur, my most and expensive and prized possessions are already digital goods. You know, the way I like to move on is these building blocks, they're just new mediums for experiencing this digital world. And so that's what I mean to think about, like, what is the metaverse? It's all these digital pools coming to the forefront in your day-to-day.
Okay. And so Jason, as a person who comes from a more traditional marketing background, what do you see? How do you see the metaverse? So I think about it in really, really simple, digestible terms.
I think about the metaverse as the next big platform after smartphones is essentially what is being built. So we can hypothesize that the metaverse will be heavily reliant on VR and AR. But when we think about adoption curves, which is a really, really important aspect to where we are today, in terms of where we could be 10 or 15 years down the road, we have to remember that things take time. And it could actually, the metaverse could actually end up being something that we're not really even thinking about today, because we don't know yet if that, for lack of better phrasing, the straw that breaks the camel's back or that moment that proves out to be the primary catalyst for widespread adoption, we don't know if that's been created yet.
We can hypothesize that AR and VR are absolutely the vehicles that will take us into this space. But I think we still need to figure out exactly how that's going to work and what it's going to take to get to that point of widespread adoption. There is a lot of talk going back to Chef's comments about the foundation and the building blocks. And I think that's where you get into the cryptocurrency and blockchain and that next level of permission and personalization and privacy.
That is ideally out there. That's really where you start to understand what it's going to take to build out what it is we will potentially and hopefully be able to experience. But for me, a lot of it goes back to the adoption curve and a lot of people forget that mobile devices and data exchange on mobile phones actually started in 2001 in Japan. And it took another 14 or 15 years before it really started to accelerate and widespread use of iPhones and smartphones as we see it today really took off.
Chef, what's your thought on how many years into the concept of the metaverse? How many years in are we? I think we're likely a couple of few years in, right? Because whenever you and I first talk about virtual influencers, that was 2019, 2019, probably 2019.
And that was the before the year of the metaverse that really happened in 2020, 2021. It was like the building blocks were already starting to be laid back then. And someone said something to me really interestingly the other day that like, and you might have a better idea of exactly what year this was, but like probably 2009 or something like that was the year of mobile, 2010 was the year of mobile, 2011 was the year of 2015, the year of mobile and at the end of every year, nothing seemed like it actually happened. Nothing seemed like it was completely different.
But then one day we all woke up and all we used were smartphones and I think the same thing's gonna happen here. I think the next seven years is gonna be the year of the metaverse. Every year we're gonna see something new and bigger coming out and Apple's gonna release their AR glasses and that is gonna release theirs and they're not gonna be mainstream adopted super, super quickly. But the next thing you know, it's gonna be here and we're just gonna wake up and it's super, super clear.
And I don't know if it's gonna be us from day, but one day we'll wake up and it'll be here. Yeah, it'll be like pandemic. Like I'll send you a look around and be like, oh, I guess we're not in this anymore here. Exactly.
Yeah. We think about it in terms of 2030. Like let's see where we're out in 2030, which feels like forever from now, but you know, it'll be like that. Well, that's sort of the benchmark that we have to see kind of where we are and how things are shaping up.
Okay. So I can ask about 400 questions about what you just said, but actually what I want to do is let's go ahead and introduce zero because I think that will give people a much better idea of what we're talking about. And then as we proceed forward, so I'm gonna toss it to you and let's let's meet them. Sounds good.
Can you come join us? Yeah. Hello everybody. How's it going?
What's up, zero? How are you? Good. Good.
I'm hanging out here in my bunker. I heard you were introducing me. So I'm excited to hear your introduction of me. Look, you're not talking all the time.
So I'm not going to hog your mind too much. I'm going to let you talk. I'm going to let Jason and Paige ask you some questions, but a great way to get this off is zero is an avatar created here. Here at here, I'll meet a group and living in the next universe stuck in his bunker, which zero maybe give us a tour of your bunkers.
That's that's all I can do. Oh, absolutely. Let's do it. Let me stand up to do this, right?
Paige, Jason, feel free to interrupt. Feel free to ask me questions. This is all real time, like stream. All right.
So I guess I'll take it from here. I'll save Chef's voice. What's up everybody? My name is zero and this is my bunker for those who can't see.
It is huge. Okay. So I'm definitely not in a bedroom. I actually have three rooms down here, including where I'm standing right now, which is my computer setup.
I woke up here in February and since then I've been just making content and getting to know people online because I was lucky enough to have a bunker that has internet connection. So in that time, I've been all over. I've been on Twitter, TikTok, Instagram, Twitch, just trying to learn more about, you know, where I am, but more importantly, like how I connect to the real world and it turns out I come from the real world. So we have a lot in common.
And the cool thing about what I do is I'm real. I'm not a robot. I'm on a sideboard. You know, I lost my hand a little bit a while ago, but I'm just a regular person making content on the internet and meeting a lot of people.
So what I'm at right now is where I live stream from. Again, for those who can't see, I have in front of me a three monitored computer setup, which is really fun. But my favorite room in the entire bunker that I'm going to show off is my movie theater. And I was watching House of the Dragons last night.
And let me tell you, it was high def and amazing. Let me show you guys that. So yeah. Oh, and by the way, for those who don't know, I can teleport.
I don't know that's something that most people can do, but it gets you around a lot faster. So now I'm standing in my movie theater. And on the screen right now is the zoom call that I'm on with all these lovely people. Hi, that's us.
And this is where I kick back. I relax. I watch content. But more importantly, I use this as like my interview room.
So on my Twitch live streams, I like to interview people and get to know other content creators. I interviewed a DJ, another Twitch streamer. I talked to YouTubers, which is a lot of fun. And yeah, I've been having a blast making content for regular social media.
And I found out it's not easy to get on Snapchat, but I have four shows on Snapchat. So I've actually been making a lot of content there, you know, a little little flex there. And yeah, so that's my bunker. That's the tour.
I have a lot of like cool gadgets and gizmos down here. I actually have a phone where I can do there it is. So I have a phone from Samsung down here with me that I use to make my TikToks with, like every other content creator. And yeah, so that's me.
This is my bunker and I'm down to answer any questions that you guys have for me. Excellent page. Do you want to go or do you want me to go? You start and then I'll go.
So zero, are you into gaming at all? Oh, I love gaming. Yeah. So when I first started streaming every Wednesday, actually live streamed to Warzone Wednesday love Call of Duty.
But I play a lot of video games. Yeah, I was going to ask, are you are you Call of Duty or Halo? Oh my goodness. You're going to do it to me, Jason.
You're going to make me pick. I have to go with Halo because it opened the world for first person shooters in my opinion. I wasn't around when it came out, but I, you know, I've caught up on the history of Halo and I got to say they set a lot of foundation for the gaming world. Very cool.
Very cool. There. How do you decide who you want to interview? What kind of youtubers are TikTokers and how do you interact with them in the bunker?
Yeah, good question. So usually if somebody interesting crosses my feed because I'm always on my phone, if they cross my feed and I see them repeatedly, I kind of make a mental note. I say, oh, you're you're I'm finding you. Let me reach out and contact you.
There's really no prerequisite though. It's one, I look for variety, you know, I don't want to get the same type of guest. If I just got youtubers every day, I would be boring. So I look for variety or I look for people doing really, really different things.
And then the second way I find people is my audience actually recommends content creators that they enjoy watching. They'll tag me in a tweet and they'll say, Hey, zero, check this person out. And that gives me a lot of insights into what people are interested in at the time. And the last way is actually people, again, not to flex, but people actually DM me a lot, asking, yo, how do I get on your show?
That's how I found the DJ. He found my Instagram and then he said, Hey, I have a new album coming out on Spotify and I want to talk about it. And I was like, Hey, you have really cool music. Why don't you come on?
And that's how that's how I find my guest. Nice. Zero is also did, he showed off his, his Samsung phone, but he actually launched the Galaxy earlier this year in partnership with Samsung as one of the first ever metaverse slash shopping events, which was a really great way of like bringing this branded object into his world and really showcasing like just how he can interact with it, which is really, really cool. We got what we like to point and got a few big headlines on a lot of major publications.
The selfie of the metaverse, which is which is what he was able to do is take a selfie of everyone he was interviewing from the metaverse is pretty cool. Nice. Hey, zero quick question. When we think about some of the big entertainment franchises or media franchises that are out there like Harry Potter or Super Mario Marvel Star Wars, what are you into?
Oh my gosh, Marvel, I'm into everything. So that's a very broad broad question. I love everything entertainment. Like I'm a film junkie.
So I watch all kinds of films, but you really can't go wrong. Like Marvel is one of those, one of those franchises that I watch every single piece of content that comes out. It'd be really cool one day. I could be a Marvel superhero just going to throw it out there.
But yeah, I love Marvel. Harry Potter is a really good one. I kind of wish they came out with some, I hope they come out with some new content, you know, it's been a while since number seven. But there are tons and tons of franchises out there.
I still haven't seen Top Gun Maverick, which is, you know, I'm just waiting for it to come down to the bunker soon. You know, love my, I love like really classic movies that my audience may not know because they're a little bit younger sometimes. But when I showed them that, they're like, Oh my gosh, that's really cool. Movies used to be really, really dope and not just about explosions.
Zero, why do you think you've managed to build your following? So it's just such a big following so quickly. A lot of time on my phone. No, how did I do it?
Really good question. One, I started by making content that I was, I just asked myself, Hey, like what do I want to watch? You know, I was scrolling through the internet and I thought to myself, you know, what do I want to watch? You know, I'm kind of bored.
Things are kind of stale or people are doing the same things. So I started from a place of what would I want to watch. And then as soon as I got that first viewer, I started reading their comments and they were like, Hey, what have you did this? So I started making content that like, you know, it's almost like if you had a small group of five friends and you're like, Hey, it would be cool if we made this, I took that mentality around it.
So I started like crowdsourcing ideas and pulling ideas that were in my comments to make my content. And the second key thing that I did that, you know, content creators are very busy people. So I don't fault them. But something that I do that others don't is I am constantly like talking to my audience.
I feel like one to one relationships are super important. I don't want my viewers to think, Hey, I'm just putting this out and it's a one way line of communication. When I make a video or a live stream, I want to have a conversation back and forth. So it's a two way street.
So every piece of content that I make, I want to encourage people to have a conversation with me. Do you like it? Do you not like it? What ideas do you have?
And I think that makes me super unique because the audience feels like they have input into the stuff that I'm making that they enjoy. So how do you think your life will be different once things become more focused on the metaverse? That's a good question. Um, I don't think that too much about what my day to day will change.
And the reason for that is because I'm kind of like ahead of the game. I can teleport. So I feel like more content creators will start to be able to teleport maybe and they might get some cool follow cameras. So if you're listening to the podcast, my camera is actually following me around as I pace in my bunker.
So I feel like as the metaverse gets bigger, more and more creators will be able to do what I do, I just feel like I have a head start and I'm kind of just in here already and I'm already doing my thing. You know, so I'm excited because I'm going to have more friends here. I'm going to be able to talk to people different types of content is going to be made. And I don't think the audience is going to be ready for like the amount of cool content that's going to come out.
I think to answer that a little bit more too, I think the opportunities for collaboration will be incredibly incredibly creative as well as easier as this will continue to get bigger as well as you think about zero being stuck in this bunker right now, zero is IP, zero of avatar can really go anywhere. So that's something that's really exciting us as all of these immersive experiences get bigger and bigger and bigger being able to bring in collaborations, bring in avatar, bring in zero, all into these new worlds, really just becomes that much more realistic. Sarah, do you think people will be able to meet you in the metaverse? Oh my good.
That'd be really cool. One, I really, really hope so. I'm not super smart when it comes to building technology and transporting people. I'm more of a content creator, not an engineer, but I'm really excited for people to come meet me.
And in the interim, I've been going out to meet people in the world. So I actually brought a TV out to a sidewalk once where joggers were going by. And I had my friends put a webcam on it so I could talk to people in the world. So I'm doing my part to bridge it.
But when people are ready to start hanging out with me, absolutely, I'm so excited to get some friends down here or meet them because I can be anywhere at any time, which is awesome. Which also, zero has done quite a few speaking engagements around the world and he has to meet people in person as well, which is pretty cool. He's been able to come with me and basically on a TV. He's talking to people here in the real world.
So, Chef, can you talk a little bit about what a little bit more going to talk about what you're talking about with regard to the Samsung collaboration that you guys both mentioned and then sort of what that looks like in terms of maybe a model for future collaboration with brands? Yeah, so I think it's really interesting. When you look at the technology we built here, this is the highest end real-time technology of power out of charge. There's nothing else on the market that you're going to see where you could have a live stream experience like this.
And that's really important for a couple of reasons. One, it allows realistic cost in terms of content production. It also allows very, very quick content production, meaning we can jump in on trends. So, for us, we think about it from perspective of how can zero collaborate with brands or sorry, how can zero collaborate with brands, how can you bring it into this world, such as what you've done with Samsung, but there's also a world where we're bringing to life IP leveraging this technology and that IP is interacting with zero in real time, hanging out, having a good time on the internet.
That's something that gets us really, really excited. And then for you, Jason, what sort of opportunities do you see? Let me jump back really quick just to Chef's last comment. There's so much IP that sits dormant every year.
And there's such an opportunity for entertainment brands to revitalize that intellectual property through new ways like having this meaningful interaction with a virtual influencer like zero or another virtual influencer that is really designed to connect with the most appropriate audience, right? So there's so much flexibility within that world. And then, you know, Paige, I'm sorry, can you repeat your original question for me? I was just asking you what sort of collaboration opportunities do you see around virtual influencers?
Yeah, so I see it around the existing dormant IP as the big one. And then I think about it just in terms of how brands can take a step back and think about the overall customer experience that they're working to create. And when you're going through that process, you're thinking about what it takes to create truly a branded or on brand experience across every single touchpoint. So the sort of the lens that I think about zero and virtual influencers at large is really where in the experience do you allow people to have that interaction?
And then from a return on investment perspective, where is it most impactful to get or empower or persuade an active or prospective customer to take that next step closer to a conversion or an acquisition? However, the brand is defining that. Do you just expect, and then I'm going to kick it to step two, but do you expect brands to have their own virtual influencers like so branded virtual influencers, if you will? I think that it's funny.
I think chef and I've actually talked about this, right? The the prominence of what we'll call like brand mascots or brand characters used to be substantial. I'm going back to, I think, you know, if we look at the history of TV and TV advertising, going back to the 60s and 70s, a jolly green giant, the tiger, the tiger, snap crackle pop, like there were just a lot of characters out there. I think brands have the opportunity to test into that again, in a whole new way that allows people to interact more intimately with their brand.
But then there's also the opportunity just to have these collaborative partnerships with existing virtual influencers that are most appropriate to their target audience. You know, and we're, we're still at this big macro level, but ultimately, chef, I'd love your thoughts, right? I assume that the concept of virtual influencers will get down to that micro influencer level where, you know, maybe zero is really most relevant to five different core attributes or characteristics of a very small segment of the population versus today's zero, I think you're really relevant to a very broad group of the population. So, chef, what's your take on that in terms of if there would be sort of brand mascots or not?
Yeah, I think absolutely. I really agree with Jason when he said around looking at what did you call Jason, like IP that's no longer currently, like, necessarily IP, right? Yeah, exactly. I think there's such a massive, massive opportunity here.
And I've got so many examples, honestly, and we haven't talked about it, but we own a website with virtualhumans.org and I highly recommend checking it out because it really goes deep into this world of all of how this stuff can be done. But one great example right now is Barbie. Barbie used to be a toy right now is living on YouTube creating content each and every day, reaching millions and millions and millions of people. And the reason this is so important, I read a great story one time about Star Wars and I'm gonna apply to Barbie to Star Wars where Star Wars is incredible, incredible IP that's been built is, you know, that they make a lot of their money through selling brushes, we all know selling merch, selling apparel, selling goods, collectibles, et cetera.
But the value earned by a four year old swinging a lightsaber is not from the eight to $10 and $15 that they made on selling that lightsaber, but it's made on that four year old growing up into an adult, remembering that swinging of the lightsaber for the rest of lives. How do you integrate IP? How do you integrate a brand into giving it to someone's life where they can interact with it on a day-to-day basis? Right now, most major franchises are releasing content on a six month, 12 month, 18 month, two year, three year timeline versus one's one's which is especially those and create content in real time on the go as a digital creator could can build that type of relationship that four year old can have the lightsaber just as they could, you know, any time really through the use of Twitch, through the use of Instagram, YouTube, they can actually build that relationship with those fans and that just makes it that much bigger when they do want to sell merch when they do want to sell apparel whenever they do drop the next movie.
Being able to interact with those brands is what's so, so powerful. Not to mention, this is just becoming the new norm. We haven't talked about that, but I think it's one of the most fascinating things that you think about it. Kids these days, teenagers these days, they're spending their lives as avatars, hundreds of millions of people using both each and every day, hundreds of millions of people playing Fortnite as avatars each and every day.
They're spending billions of dollars on apparel for their avatars. So the fact of this whole digital identity, digital avatar interacting with you, it's just normal. Did anyone under 30 years old at this point? It's just like a normal new thing that happened over the last 10 years, you've just been slowly conditioned to accept it.
I think Fortnite's also a good example of the prototype. I think Fortnite started to show what it could be if it became, if that wave interaction with the world became more global. So my favorite example is the Travis Scott concert, but it was so thinking outside of the box to have a big huge concert in a digital environment that people could participate in and then you see it in all sorts of different ways. This is a stupid question coming from a human brain who thinks linearly, but can zero be creating content and appearing on platforms all the time in all places?
He doesn't necessarily suck with being one place at one time, right? Sure answer. So I'm gonna ask a quick question. Do we need to keep zero hanging out with us or on a zero's got a lot of content to create?
So I'm not sure. I think zero can go out and create content. Thank you so much for being here, zero. Yeah.
Thank you everybody for having me. Enjoy the rest of your chat. Thanks. I'll tell you if you need to come back here.
Thank you guys. Yep. Absolutely. Bye.
So that's a great question around just basically how an avatar can be thought of. So they can be both. That's the beautiful thing about an avatar. They can create content on multiple platforms.
They can be live in multiple places at once. They can be, yeah, and they're not a human being at the end of the day. So you can really think about it as IP and the technology powering zero, keep powering 100 zeros all at once very, very quickly. It's crazy a little bit because they're interacting with zero and it's really like my brain is processing it like a person.
Yeah. That's what we focus so much on. But the technology is zero doesn't just feel like an animated character, like a little outdoor technology thrown on here. You really feel that human emotion coming out of it.
And it's because of so much of what we don't end to the actual character. The technology powering the character, you see the emotion coming out of the space, you see the excitement, you see the anxiety, it's angry, you see all of this different type of emotion that really just, yeah, you don't get that uncanny feeling at all with zero. It's just it's almost like you can just relate to it. You just bond with them.
Then I felt bad. I was leaving zero out of the conversation and then I'm like, zero is not real. It's fine. Anyway, okay.
So, and then when you're saying he's creating content, like that AI is just going, like for example, I saw an Instagram, a clip, it was him doing like a meme around, it was funny that he said he hadn't seen top gun maverick because this meme was around top gun maverick. But so that's something just that zero the AI goes and creates on its own. And then do you guys review any of that or he's just making it and throwing it up on social media? So there's a team working with zero.
And yeah, I've got things coming into the content ideas, what's coming out of the brand, et cetera. Okay. So there's a production of things and then they insert zero in an interactive time accordingly. Exactly.
Okay. Okay. Because I was like, it's just organically making content. And why am I here?
There's still, right now, in 2022, you still very much need, you still very much need to keep in mind behind a lot of this. Okay. Thank God. Yeah.
In the next 10, 15, 20 years, Jason's born about 2030. I don't know. I've seen some insane stuff over the last few months and last year that 2030, like, yeah, there's really incredible content and not moving in behind it. I don't know what that means in the world.
That's not a topic. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Okay. Let's just hear a little and talk about AR lenses, which is another big topic we're going to talk about. So augmented reality lenses, correct? I think this topic is so interesting, because I feel like we've seen a lot of kind of not ready for prime time in the AR lens space, meaning it's come up and people have thought about it and there are lenses.
But as to your point before Jason, like you haven't actually found the why, like it's not like the smartphone. I think it might come to a point where it will be like a smartphone, but as of yet, it is not. So, so step let me ask you said that sort of where you guys got your start. But where do you see?
Well, where do you come from with regard to AR lenses and where do you see the market right now? I think they're definitely here in a big, big way. So we've created it. We started by creating lenses on Snapchat that we work with, like, for public records and more music group and other major record labels, helping major artists release a lens that their fans can interact with and play their new song at the same time.
So the really incredible way of bringing that fan interactivity into something that they wanted to promote. We've now done that with major brands, think of it as, you know, being able to play a game with a hamburger falling down, you know, while you're playing that game within a social media. That's really where a lot of that started. But now we're building lenses on it, Snapchat, Instagram and TikTok and Facebook.
Those are the main four platforms that we spend a lot of our time on. And these lenses are really just meant to be something you can interact with. They're meant to help you play a game. They're meant to make you look different.
They're meant to be fun. They're meant to be shareable and over the last six months, you know, we've probably created two or three dozen lenses that have been seen by over three billion people, like seen, played by tens of millions of millions of people who decided to play with the lens and then share it to hundreds of people. It's been seen by billions of people. It's insane just how impactful these lenses can be.
And it's because it's just a fun way of interacting also for media. So there's a whole bunch of stuff where you can take it to the next level and bring it into the real world. But right now that first, that the easiest way of getting a fan to interact with your brand is by launching an augmented reality experience, a lens filter, whatever it is, on one of those majors, three platforms, Instagram, TikTok, Snapchat. Like I just mentioned, it really you have direct distribution to your fans and they can easily interact with it.
And the most important part is then you can share it. They will share it and you can measure that sharing now. This is pretty powerful. Okay, just to clarify, I was thinking about more like Oculus, Google Glass, things like that.
You're talking more about like Snapchat lenses, things that are more online. So those are two sort of separate things that live in a similar space. Yeah, definitely. And so you think about it.
It's like, that's where this stuff started, like you can do it with your phone. Like the glasses are going to take this to a whole another level and actually a level. But right now people, like I mentioned earlier, well, 10 years ago, we've been conditioned by Bitmo G's and whatnot. It's just normal usage is to be playing with this avatar.
That same thing's happening right now. We're doing it completely with our, we're doing completely with our iPhones, with our smart phones. Now that is moving, you know, we see meta launching your smart glass. We see Apple launching their smart glasses.
We see the new meta West coming out. Like these, these are really taking it to a whole level. But it is, it is a hardware requirement that most people already have a smartphone. So it's like that bridge.
Like the way I see it, it's like a lot of stuff will be accessible via an iPhone or smartphone. And then we'll also move on towards these, these glasses as it becomes more mainstream, but stuff's already being built today to use. And the reality is that AR is a proven experience. And I think we can call it an experience.
It's a proven experience that drives preference and drives purchase and engagement for consumers. There's a ton of data out there that shows that the, I'll speak in really broad terms, right? Like the vast majority are well over 65 to 70% of individuals that experience a branded AR experience are more likely to and or do purchase that product. So when you think about home decor, AR experiences, or product personalization, being able to virtually try on different garments, product demonstrations, fitness and exercise, all of the like that experience, seven times out of 10, six times out of 10 leads to a purchase, which is pretty powerful.
And that those experiences are the one, two, and three steps closer to it becoming or AR becoming part of our everyday lives. And once the, so we, so we don't confuse the term lenses, once the once the eyewear is figured out, I really think it's going to be off of the races. And you're going to you're going to see some pretty rapid adoption take place. Once, once the model is right, where the hardware is right, I'll go back to what we were talking about earlier, the year of mobile.
And it's like, I don't know who on this wall is wearing a smart Apple watch right now, or another smart watch. But I can very vividly remember, I don't know, seven years ago, whenever these came out, whatever it was, like, kind of thing, oh, that's kind of cool. Kind of looks toward me. I don't know if I'd actually want to wear one.
And then it just very quickly started to become the thing. If you want to be conscious, you wear this, if you want to be tech-centric, you wear this, if you want to be all these different things, it would help you live that life. These glasses are going to be the exact same thing. The first day to come out, it's going to be the innovators and then it'll take three, four, five, six years, and it'll be just absolutely adopted by the mainstream.
Yeah. So that's quality starts together and say, Jason, what do you think is the opportunity for brands looking at virtual influencers in the metaverse with with AR lenses or AR experiences? What does that combine to look like? Yeah, I think for me, it combines to look like a, you know, working to create immersive on brand experiences.
And there are a multitude of ways to get there, but immersion is a key part of what makes this so special. The challenge that we face today is just the number of eyeballs. The reality is this is not, this is not ready for the masses yet. And in terms of being able to create a truly immersive, repeatable experience, and by repeatable, I mean, it's there and you want to come back to it again and again, and again, the options are pretty limited.
I immediately go to gaming as that, that repeatable, immersive experience. How do we start to evolve beyond that? But right now, gaming for me is an incredible place to start and then eventually getting to the point where, you know, zero is having people over. Yeah, yeah.
And does your brand fit with someone like zero or one of the other virtual influencers that are out there? How do you see it, handing out stuff? So I think it's very much like that when I think about zero, I think about, I really think about it just being fully immersive, like from start to finish everything that full experience that you have today can be had with a digital avatar. That can be done through things like augmented reality, augmented reality lenses, but reality, versus immersive experiences.
And so what I mean by that is let's take it as zero, or let's take it as a major franchise IP brought to life as an avatar, as a virtual influencer. So now this avatar is on the big screen, because it is the Hollywood franchise. It's on the big screen. Now it's living with you and hanging out with you and talking back to you on social media.
And then you can pull out your phone or you can wear your glasses and you can actually see it in the real world. And it's helping, you know, sell and rent its sponsorships, for example. It's like, at that Walmart, whenever you walk in and say, hey, come in entertainment aisle and get some DVDs, it's that full experience from actually being on the big screen to on social media, where you're interacting with it on this day to day, but then also in your more personal experiences, like helping you shop, helping you make any real major decisions like that, that avatar can happen through through VR through AR. That stuff is coming out very shortly.
I mentioned earlier zero, hanging out on a TV in person, there's holograms are very realistic and they're not as expensive as they used to be. You could bring to life zero in the real world now and have that experience go all the way from the big screen, all the way down to in person and a store and how to one to one. I think that's that's where the stuff starts to really, really fascinating over the next two years. That's my other question too.
You've mentioned this a couple times, but for brands who are thinking about doing this, I think there's always sort of an ROI question around it. So what you know, what does that curve look like at what point do you think it makes sense for brands to sort of check this out? Because I think another thing that I've definitely seen already happening on the Metaverse are people are dipping their toes in and it's, I mean, I get live, but then the experience is sort of underwhelming because they're giving their own money or it's just not quite all the way pan. Do you know what I mean?
It's not all the way built out, but I feel like it's just the very early days. So when you're talking to brands over and they're thinking about investing in this kind of thing, how do you think they should be thinking about it? I really think it's about how you break down what is a Metaverse like we talked about earlier. If you're thinking about the platforms like Sandbox and the Central Land, those are possibly really bright futures.
But right now, that's not what the eyeballs are. Not what the eyeballs are. So if you're looking at building out an avatar or doing a first night, you can reach hundreds of millions of people today. And I think that's where the bigger opportunity really lies right now.
I'm sorry. Will you also repeat the question? The second part of the question? Same thing, though.
It's just that what is as brands are thinking about when you dip their toe in here, what should they be thinking about in terms of ROI and investment? Yeah. So ROI, if you think about it, like right now, if you're monetizing IP, IP specifically, if you're monetizing a toy or a video game character or a movie character or a sports mascot, right? If you're monetizing any of these, or if you're not monetizing it enough, it's because it doesn't have as deep of a fandom as it should.
Like building a fandom, building a relationship with the fans, that allows you to sell more merch, that allows you to do more brand new integrations, that allows you to launch more or have more viewers than to be launched to show, launch a podcast, whatever it is, it allows you to run a really strong ecosystem around that IP. These avatars that we're doing today, that's helping do that today. It's not necessarily in the future. It's like being able to build millions of followers around around an IP can really grow how you can actually monetize that IP.
It's not something that has to be in the future. It can be today. Well, I think it's also what you're saying, like around zero is he's already got followers. So if you're a brand and you're jumping in for someone's Samsung phone, you don't have to really spend a lot of time building anything out.
You're piggybacking on what's already exists. And you think about zero, zero is already making six figures, like without the brand integration, zero is generating six figures of revenue, just from creating appealing content that his fans are watching. He's building that fandom, and he's getting paid for some positive tips too. So zero has been offered seven months, and he's like kicking everybody's but, that's not rude, zero.
I know, right? That's how he can afford those nice threads. Yeah, and fake hands. One of these days, and I forgot to sell the jacket because everyone wants it.
Zero merch. All right, I'm going to land the plane here. What Jason, what would you like to leave us with regarding this conversation? As you look forward to influencers, Madiverse, AR lenses toward the future for brands, what would you like to leave us with?
Yeah, I think the opportunity for brands to start to test their way into the metaverse, whatever that is today, right? That's where we started the conversation. It's still a little broad. You're really, marketing teams have to shift their thinking.
As you grow up being a marketer, it's always about what are business goals and objectives, what are the strategies we're going to execute to support those business goals and objectives, and then what are the tactics. I think in today's world, as it relates to the metaverse, and because options are fairly limited, think about your business goals and objectives. People are going to throw stuff at me. Jump right down to tactics and start thinking about what are the different things that you could do, and which could potentially ladder back up to your business goals and objectives, and figure out how much it costs to run a test to see what response you get from different tactics.
And take your time. We're not in an environment where you should go all in on specific tactic or get completely distracted by the new shiny object. Take your time, learn about the different options that are out there, and try something. And if you're not, if you're a brand that is not financially in a position, to take a big swing at something, or even invest in a testing scenario, carve out the time to really track what other brands are doing, both inside your industry and outside, and see if there are any meaningful learnings that you can leverage to build out a business case that you can take up to the executive leadership of your organization to get the funds that you need to give your tone to water.
I think one thing that you said, stuff that I think is really true and interesting and that the smartest brands know is this idea of what you said is tapping into fandom to make sure that you're connecting, and that's sort of a virtuous circle. And then, yeah, creating that relationship like the four-year-old with the lightsaber, but creating that relationship. So you're in a place where fans really want to be, and they want to be there a lot. They want to be there often.
And I actually, I mean, we talked about how to drag on several times now, but I do feel like HBO is Game of Thrones, and how to drag, and they do a really good job of creating that world. And then many other brands that you guys mentioned Marvel, et cetera, but that's part of the genius on it. And it goes, it's interesting because it goes so far beyond the traditional 30-second spot that we very labor talk about now, but you see it sort of becoming like less and less part of what you might do. But anyway, so let me let you, I'll give you the last word, but when you see all of this and where this is going, what would you tell brands to be doing right now?
I agree with Jason really well. I don't know if we're going to have the strategy out there right now. This is the perfect perfect strategy, but this is the future. I mean, the trends are just, or the data is showing the trends are here and they've been coming in the coming and they're going to be this day.
And I heard a very interesting thing in the other day, but it's like, you think about the amount of money that's being invested into the metaverse, and it's using the avatars, all these different worlds. And it's like, if you throw enough money at a toaster, something's going to happen. As I heard the other day, I'm like, that's what's happening here right now. We're seeing billions and billions and billions of dollars, some of the biggest investors in the world moving money from previous types of investments into this new top of investments.
It's clear that if you follow the dollar for going with a smallest talent in the world's going, this is going to be the future. And so learning how to do it right now, I think that really is probably one of the most strategic things you could do in the daytime. Not necessarily one strategy of it, but thinking of strategically how do I learn all about it, but this is going to the future. The world, the world's going to become more immersive, to remember we are each gaming.
I'm going to reality being able to communicate and interact with an avatar. So if you're not jumping on this, we're all going to get that. I'm going to recommend really starting to get your bearings on what at least what are the building blocks and how to face understanding of each one of those so that you can see as each one of those comes full mainstream market, you're ready to attack it. Okay, that's an awesome place to end and a good note.
This is the future. Everyone pay attention. Jason, Jeff, zero who left. Thank you guys so much for being here.
I really appreciate it. It was fascinating. Awesome. Thank you so much.
Thank you so much. Thanks Paige. That's it for this episode of the Daily Brief podcast. If you have suggestions for conversations, please reach out to us on Facebook and LinkedIn at Promax Global or on Instagram and Twitter at Promax Underscore Global.
You can also email us at dailybrief at Promax.org and you can subscribe to the Daily Brief podcast on Apple Podcast where you can also read and review us, or on Google Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. And as always, thanks for listening.