Episode 2159: Richard J. Evans on how leading Nazis were, in some ways, just ordinary middle class Germans

As author of the authoritative three volume Third Reich Trilogy, Richard J. Evans is probably the most respected scholar of Hitler’s Third Reich in the world today. And his latest book, Hitler’s People, is an attempt to make all-too-human sense of Nazi lieutenants like Goebbels, Himmler, Eichmann and Streicher. It goes without saying of course, that these men were all monsters. But Evans is also interested in the human qualities of these Nazis. What he discovers, he told me, are ordinary middle class German faces lurking behind the masks of mass murderers. Any of us could have been on of Hitler’s people, he seems to be warning us. And in a contemporary age in which the murderous Nazi cult of racism and violence is creeping back into mainstream politics, Evans observations about the ordinariness of evil are particularly jarring. Richard J. Evans is one of the world’s leading historians of modern Germany. He has served as Regius Professor of History at the University of Cambridge; president of Wolfson College, Cambridge; and provost of Gresham College in the City of London. He has received the Hamburg Medal for Art and Science for cultural services to the city, and the British Academy’s Leverhulme Medal and Prize, awarded for a significant contribution to the humanities or social sciences. In 2000, he was the principal expert witness in the David Irving Holocaust denial libel trial at the High Court in London, subsequently the subject of the film Denial. His books include Death in Hamburg (winner of the Wolfson History Prize), In Defence of History, The Coming of the Third Reich, The Third Reich in Power, The Third Reich at War, and The Pursuit of Power: Europe 1815–1914, volume 7 of the Penguin History of Europe. His most recent books are Eric Hobsbawm: A Life in History and The Hitler Conspiracies: The Third Reich and the Paranoid Imagination. In 2012, he was knighted for services to scholarship.Named as one of the "100 most connected men" by GQ magazine, Andrew Keen is amongst the world's best known broadcasters and commentators. In addition to presenting KEEN ON, he is the host of the long-running How To Fix Democracy show. He is also the author of four prescient books about digital technology: CULT OF THE AMATEUR, DIGITAL VERTIGO, THE INTERNET IS NOT THE ANSWER and HOW TO FIX THE FUTURE. Andrew lives in San Francisco, is married to Cassandra Knight, Google's VP of Litigation & Discovery, and has two grown children.Keen On is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit keenon.substack.com/subscribe