Where Does the Money Go? Joe Amodei on Distribution Expenses

Why do some filmmakers never see a check, even after their film is released? Christian Taylor has heard it from other filmmakers: their film was distributed by a big company, and they never received a check, because of distribution expenses. Christian has paid them herself and admits she didn't understand what they were. So she asks Joe Amodei of Virgil Films to explain. Someone has to make the artwork to each platform's spec, he says, and Netflix wants 19 versions of the poster art. A digital house turns your master into a dozen different masters, because Netflix, iTunes and Vudu each want delivery a different way. If quality control finds a blip in the sound at 27 minutes and 13 seconds, the master comes back and you do it again. Those costs come out of the film's proceeds. And some distributors, Joe says, bill a filmmaker $5,000 for something that cost them $500. In Episode 218, the second of two parts, Christian hosts again on her own. Christian gives full disclosure: Joe is her distributor, and she trusts him because he's honest, open and transparent. Joe explains why Virgil releases two films a month, maybe three, when other companies release 20: it takes time to make a plan with each filmmaker and keep selling a film years after it comes out. He warns that of the companies offering to put your film on a new streaming platform, 95%, he says, "will take your film, put it up and you will never hear from them again." Then 2024. Joe predicts consolidation: Paramount and Showtime already combined, Paramount up for sale, Hulu folding into Disney. At Netflix he sees a calmer, more strategic company that may license more really good documentaries. Christian feels a crack in the door. Joe's caution is that most revenue still comes from transactional rentals and sales on iTunes, Amazon and Vudu. One-night screenings in art house theaters early in the week help and bring in some money. So filmmakers have to work the release with their distributor. "Nobody knows the film better than the filmmaker," Joe says. Christian shares how her producer, David Paterson, is using Sundance's list of exhibitors to book The Girl Who Wore Freedom, and Joe explains why a $25,000 marketing charge should make you ask where the money went. They end with a story about World Series tapes and the Baseball Hall of Fame, why you have to love this business to stay in it, the trades Joe reads every morning, and his Oscar picks. Full disclosure: since 2022, Joe's company, Virgil Films, has distributed Christian's film The Girl Who Wore Freedom, and it now sponsors Documentary First. This 2024 episode has no sponsor read. In this episode, you'll learn: Why Virgil releases two or three films a month, not 20 What consolidation at Paramount, Showtime, Hulu and Disney means for filmmakers Why Joe thinks Netflix may license more really good documentaries Why your distributor needs you as a partner CHAPTERS 0:00 Two Films a Month 5:38 Consolidation Is Coming 9:21 A Crack in the Door 12:13 Partnering on the Release 16:05 Where Does the Money Go? 21:51 A $25,000 Marketing Bill 24:38 The Hall of Fame Tapes 28:34 Trades, Oscars and Emmys FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS What are distribution expenses? Joe Amodei of Virgil Films explains that distribution expenses are the costs of getting a film ready for each platform, deducted from the film's proceeds. They include artwork made to each platform's specs (Netflix, he says, wants 19 versions of the poster art), a digital house creating separate masters for Netflix, iTunes, Vudu and others, and redoing a master that fails quality control. Virgil Films sends statements showing these costs and will go over them line by line. Why don't some filmmakers get paid by their distributor? Christian Taylor says she has heard filmmakers say they never received a check because distribution expenses were deducted. Joe Amodei says real costs come out of the proceeds first, but some distributors inflate them, billing a filmmaker $5,000 for something that cost $500. His advice is to read your statement and call your distributor with questions. An audit is possible, but the filmmaker usually pays for it. How does a documentary make money today? Speaking in early 2024, Joe Amodei said that in most cases a documentary's revenue comes from transactional sales and rentals on iTunes, Amazon, Vudu and similar sites, so marketing and social media should point there. One-night theatrical screenings in art house theaters, which are often empty early in the week, bring in some money and help the transactional release. A streaming license is possible but no longer the norm. Should you put your film on a new streaming platform? Joe Amodei is wary. He says that of the companies offering to put your film on their new platforms, 95% will take your film, put it up, and you will never hear from them again. Consumers are cutting cable and streaming services, he says, so few will join one they've never heard of. Since every upload costs time, effort and money, Virgil Films says no unless a new platform is compelling. LISTEN AND FOLLOW Listen and subscribe wherever you get podcasts: https://pod.fo/e/4a7ff1 Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@documentaryfirst SUPPORT THE SHOW Join our community on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/c/DocumentaryFirst CONNECT WITH DOCUMENTARY FIRST All platforms: https://linktr.ee/doc1st Christian Taylor on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/meetchristiantaylor ABOUT THE GUEST Joe Amodei Founder of Virgil Films and Entertainment; director of Cold War in Philly Joe Amodei has worked in film distribution for more than 40 years, starting in home video retail in Philadelphia. In 2000 he became president of USA Home Entertainment, and he went on to create Virgil Films and Entertainment, whose releases include Super Size Me, Restrepo, Forks Over Knives and Glen Campbell: I'll Be Me. He won a 2020 New York Emmy for The Real Bedford Falls: It's a Wonderful Life. In 2026 he released his first film as a director, Cold War in Philly: Flyers vs Russia 1976. Cold War in Philly Virgil Films on Instagram Virgil Films on X Virgil Films on Facebook ABOUT DOCUMENTARY FIRST Documentary First is a weekly podcast about the people behind documentaries and how the work changed them. Host Christian Taylor, director of the award-winning The Girl Who Wore Freedom, talks with filmmakers, distributors, entertainment lawyers, actors and more, from Ken Burns and PBS American Masters creator Susan Lacy to first-timers, across nearly 300 conversations. Each week brings one of two formats: a long-form conversation with the people behind films for HBO, Netflix, PBS and independent film, or The Deep Dive, where Christian takes one insight from a recent conversation and follows it wherever it leads. Listen Notes ranks the show in the top 5% of all podcasts worldwide. New episodes every week. THE DISTRIBUTION SERIES Episode 128, Joe's first visit, from a video store to Super Size Me Episode 194, five film business tips Episode 198, Cannes part one, the film market Episode 199, Cannes part two, why documentaries are hard to sell Episode 216, getting distributed part one, who can you trust Episode 271, budgets, genres and building your audience Episode 283, Joe's first documentary, Cold War in Philly RESOURCES MENTIONED Deadline Variety The Hollywood Reporter