Because the secret to getting stronger and fitter be doing less than you ever thought was realistic or possible or made any sense whatsoever. Maybe we're going to find out today on this episode of the movement movement podcast for people who want to know the truth about what it takes to have a healthy, strong body starting with the first usually, because those things are your foundation. We're going to break down the mythology, the propaganda, and often the lies that you've been told about what it takes to run to walk the hike to dance and play a lift or anything else that you do with your body to do it enjoy it, enjoy it healthily as you get older or younger. But getting younger, that's what you want to do so far.
That's going to be a future episode of this podcast. Not really. I'm Stephen Satcham from zero. Go to ww.join the movement movement.
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And because it's a movement that means you are involved. So in short, if you want to be part of the tribe, please subscribe. And let's just jump in, shall we? Hello, Tim and Danny.
How are you? Great. I'm glad that you have taken on the mantle of doing that one. So, you have a pair of glasses.
Yeah, we're going to. Oh, man. This is brilliant. Definitely going to find it.
You've gone for it. So, and Tim and Danny are from original strength.net. Tim's got his original strength shirt on. You can't see the rest of that.
We'll talk about that in a bit. There we go. All right. Put on the glasses.
Do the Clark Kent part. I don't recognize you. Take my piece of room. Who is that?
Yeah. Where did you go? Could you get Tim back on here, please? Sorry.
Sorry. It's funny. I was looking at the top half of the top half of the top half of the top half. It was like, they didn't have the bottom part at all.
So, whatever that style of lens is called. So, I'd be wearing these things. We're just the top half. No lenses.
And there's times where I'd be talking to people for an hour until they look at me and go, what? You know, there's no lenses in those. And I go, yeah, I don't need glasses. They found that very confusing.
Tim, there's some Danny on there. Do me a favor. Tell people who the hell you are and why you're here. Oh, all right.
All right. I got this quote from James and I put on my office here on camera. I'm going to follow Tim back on his last call. So, he's so grateful for doing this.
Tell him he's so grateful for it. Well, there you go. I'm not sure what his signature is. You're so grateful for him.
Absolutely. He's looking at a lot of character and he's like, you're the mother. You're the mother. He's the mother.
And he's big, and he's not going to have to live. To live. He's a child. He's so much better.
So, he's a child. He's a child. Yet. But he's beautiful.
I can't believe he's running his life around me. He's a great teacher. He's a great teacher. But first, since it is the movement movement podcast, do you have a movementy thing that you do as part of what you do with original strength that you would like to share with human beings so that they could get a little taste of what it means for what natural movement means from your perspective?
Sure. We encourage people to do something that they've all done before called rocking where they get on their hands and knees and rock back and forth. Most children do this right before they learn how to crawl. And that movement is phenomenal for what it does for your nervous system and how it teaches your body that it is one whole body and not a collection of parts.
So let's just break. I know that sounds super simple and you just said it in like lesson sentence. Okay. So literally on your hands and your shoulders toes, toes pointed or toes engaged.
Yes. So either one because your feet are designed to be very mobile and those joints articulate in every direction, you can do toes down or on the balls of your feet. Right. Right.
Either those. And when you say rocking back and forth, you're literally not moving anything. Your hands are planted, your knees are planted, your toes are doing what your toes are doing. And it's just fine way to move back and forth.
I've done this. Yes. So you're transferring weight over your hands and then back over your hips. And the wonderful thing about it teaches all your joints how to dance together, your ankles, your knees, your hips, your wrists, your shoulders, your spine, your posture, the curves and your spine is great.
So do you want people to just be going back and forth linearly or do you want people to make other emotions like a little back horizontal lateral figure, et cetera? So yes. Linear is where we start. I'm going to have to stop doing that.
You're going to have to give me a straight answer and not a yes answer. So we start them with linear back and forth because that's pretty fairly easy to get to. And then if they're getting adventurous, we have them rocking circles or if they're really really feeling thirsty, we do try to do infinity symbols or figure eggs. Now, let me just start with the sort of obvious thing.
Some people when they hear this are going to drop down and do it. And some people are going to think, well, they're in a place where they can't. And some people are going to think, well, that seems silly or stupid or like really basic or I mean, what I love about what you guys are doing is really, and the reason why I talk about natural movement is what do babies do? What are these movement patterns that we start doing just naturally and organically and how does that affect us as we move forward?
So for people who think that this is either silly or inconsequential or might be embarrassing or have any resistance to this because doing some things that seem quote unquote infantile, it does bring stuff up for people where they have like very strange, I've experienced where people have some like very strange response to it. I think that I do when I'm teaching people about barefoot running where it will be out in a field and I'll say, look at how like tiny little kids run when they first start running. Basically, they lead with their head which is oversized and excessively heavy and then they just try to keep up with their head. And so it's like let your head go back and forth and just try to keep up.
And it takes people sometimes like 15 minutes till they're willing to even do it because it looks silly. It feels great. It's really fun. But there's this like this incredible resistance to doing these baby like or child like things.
That's what I see. What's been your experience with that? Very similar. People do feel silly getting down on the floor and not being like children or moving like children.
But usually if we can convince them that it's if you could restore your body and have all the mobility and strength that you wanted to have, isn't it worth being just a little bit silly to get that? Yeah. Yeah, I was going to say, so we have a few shirts to say it's crazy enough to work. And you know what?
It's a little bit crazy and that's okay. It might seem crazy. But when people try it and have an experience and they actually see it, you know, see and feel the difference that it makes on their body immediately, then they're usually like, oh, yeah, I got to do that. And then you see other people around you and they're doing that.
So I challenge those people to be a trendsetter and go ahead and just try it. The thing that I noticed the first time I tried just rocking for a Macard is that at a certain point, like at first, if you're weird and you're going like, I don't know why I'm doing this and then things happen. Like you find yourself just taking a big deep breath. Something just lets go.
Something starts to relax. And it's just it's surprising. That's one of my favorite things. Yeah, and we've had even here in our studio, we'll have people that I guess they people do with issues that they don't tell you about because it's their norm.
We've had people come after they've been here a while and say, you know what? My back doesn't hurt anymore. And it's because they're rocking back and forth and they're like, I've been doing this at home. So not only do they do it here, they do it at home and we don't necessarily know they're doing it.
So they discover that they feel great and then they tell us what they're doing. There's a thing I think about almost every day that's when Lane and I get home from work, one of us usually me makes some dinner and so much I'm okay with I really like doing it. Makes and dinner and then we go upstairs where we have technically it's our second bedroom, it's actually our one place where we have a television and a big couch and I will when I'm eating I will be sitting on the ground and the thing that I think every time I do this is growing up I never saw anyone do this. My parents never did.
My dad did every now and then if he was like trying to turn a television stand into a book shelf or something he never read the instructions and God knows what they were always left over screws. But in terms of just like daily living I never know I never modeled being on the ground crawling, sitting, hanging out lying down. What's your I don't know how to even ask this? Have people come in to work with you where they have any kind of relationship with that?
Are they again any reluctance or reticence or is it more just when they do it there's this once they get hip to it it just feels good because it's fun because it's natural because it's etc do you know where I'm going with this? Maybe a little bit so there's kind of like two paths we can go down in one I think it really depends on the age of the individual so sometimes as we see an older individual they are much more reluctant to get down on the ground it's usually almost a fear relationship we're afraid to be on the floor because we don't know if we can get back up and we don't want to think about when we have to be on the floor because a lot of times we people associate it as you get older with falling and so that from one standpoint so getting people comfortable being on the floor is really important to us and helping them be able to have the strength to get back up and down but then on the other hand you've got individuals that are fairly very capable of getting up and down and you get them on the floor and they might feel like oh the skills silly yeah the whole conversation we're having but it's part of our culture here so everybody's on the floor that's just the way that we do things and then once they see that okay one it feels good too they're getting stronger and three we really hammer in that this is where we start this is the basics this is how we build a strong foundation I think that's a really a really easy way to help get them more comfortable if we do see that but honestly since everybody doesn't hear it's not as big here yeah no but you actually get the points exactly let me back up a giant step how did you if you can if one asks you to do two things one describe a little more if you can about the fundamental things that people are doing if they're going to come to a ritual strength and work with you or in a course or however they might learn about it and the second thing is how did you come to this how did you find us discover this develop this so we'll go backwards the first the second thing you were on Krypton yes so what happened was that's actually a good segue though because my favorite superhero is Superman and I was foolish when I was younger and still am but I would train to the point where I would injure myself but I wouldn't stop because it was some weird badge of honor that I just got to keep training so I would never let my body recover and one day I was frustrated because I wasn't feeling like Superman at all and honestly I just I asked God to show me how to train to become bulletproof again I was thinking about Superman one night and I wasn't there and within a couple of weeks I picked up a book on learning disorders in children and how movement can strengthen their brain and tie their brain together and strengthen their nervous system and it within a couple of weeks it was just like all the I learned that all the movements we made as a child is what knits our body together in our nervous system and physically ties us together so it's just like I kind of connected the dots and we started rolling around and crawling around on the floor so there's going to be a transition from you personally rolling crawling on the floor to what you now have to talk about that so friend of mine encouraged me to write a book about what I was learning so I wrote a book about basically it was about the developmental sequence how what children go through to get strong so that they can walk around on two feet and explore their world and and if we return to those same movements then the same thing happens for us again it's like hitting a reset button on the body so I wrote this book and a few people bought it and eventually we did a workshop about it a lot of people came and then word of mouth spread and it just organically grew from that to where we have a facility called the original strength institute where we just we help people remember how their body is designed to muth love it danny do you want to add anything to that or tell or talk about your experience oh I met her when she was just a baby I was rolling around on the floor and I was like no I know yeah I came in I moved to the area I was looking for a place to train and met him saw this crazy guy rolling around crawling outside pulling chains again oh my gosh he's crazy and let me show you some things and I also I remember at that point him saying people want to learn about this like he had just written the book and people were like people want to learn about this but so he shows me and shows me some of the resets took me through some things started practicing and I had struggled I'm super hyper mobile so my body moves way more than it's supposed to move and I struggled with the instability for most of my life as a collegiate athlete a lot of injuries and so he showed me the resets helped me basically re-time my body back together and I was like oh this is pretty good stuff and so yeah so I started using it with all of my clients and we continued to work together and I just want to again back up a little bit Tim are you telling me that an effective pickup line is let me show you some moves yes wow yes that is pretty impressive what's me wrong let me show you some things usually that elicits a whole different reaction so both you actually mentioned resets can you say more about what that is so the body so your nervous system if you can strengthen it it your nervous system wants to feel safe and if you can do movements or make it feel safe it will let go and allow you to move so when we say pressing reset it is as if we're pressing a reset on the body's operating system and then all the programs on top of it run well so it's like resetting a Nintendo or something like that but all it is is tapping back into the very original movements we made as a child and those are pre-programmed in our nervous system to to help us grow and develop and if we revisit breathing activating our vestibular system we're basically moving our head and our eyes rolling around on the floor rocking back and forth and crawling or our gate pattern if we do those things it's like pressing reset on the nervous system allowing it to feel safe and it allows us in turn to move and express our strength we talked about I mean the intro to this episode was saying how basically you get stronger and healthier by doing less than you ever thought talk about that if you would because you would that was our brief pre-podcast chat it lasted about five seconds you think that I said yeah that's perfect let's go it was so traditionally I think it's pretty common to think that if you want to get stronger you need to lift weights you know you can not work out and most people think well you got to do that for an hour or two hours at a time regularly what I discovered is our design is so amazing that if your nervous system is strong your body has unlimited strength and potential to allow you to do anything you want to do mostly within reason but an easy example is I've let it weights on my life and I quit for about I don't know months and just crawled across across fields dragging chains and stuff like that but just crawling like crawling like a kid does and my body got a lot stronger than it was in the gym and I know that because I came back to the gym and I was able to pick up much heavier stuff than I was then when I left the gym and I had been gone for months I wasn't training to get stronger in the gym but I was able to express more strength in the gym well that's an interesting point do you think that you got actually stronger or do you think that with the lifts that you were doing there was something else like better alignment or just better movement patterns actually stronger and better movement patterns so again everything was I was tied together better so I could press more strength potential that I had so most people are walking around with enough strength to crush their own bones if all their muscles were to contract everybody can everybody can do that but nobody is able to express that because they don't they're nervous system will not let them tap into that right but if your nervous system feels safe and you're tied together very well then strength is almost effortless and supposed mobility it's interesting when you said that I just remembered seeing something on maybe a show like I shouldn't be alive or I don't know what's called or something like that and maybe if that's what it's called the show is no longer on the air which I'm so glad about because I used to watch it addictively and it was just like basically for an hour it's a story of someone who shouldn't have been alive because of whatever happened to them but every 10 or 15 minutes it was the kind of thing where you're going oh my god that's the worst thing I could ever imagine and then it got worse so but one of the episodes was a guy who had been hiking and a giant I didn't even want to call it a piece of rock like 10 feet wide 10 feet long couple feet thick slipped off the edge of the cliff that he was on and pinned him and so he's on lying underneath it face up with this multi thousand pound rock on him and just freaked out and pushed it off his body and ended up basically tearing every muscle in the ligament in his body yeah it was a bridal strength yeah NSA was like right got it off got down and then I realized that I know broken bones and ripped almost every ten just like holy smokes so it's like our brain is telling us like you're saying our central nervous system including our brain is telling us to limit things to a certain extent because you could hurt yourself otherwise and it's actually something we I was talking about yesterday about what someone about running actually know what it was about the two hours of two-hour marathon where and oh it was even better it was about the new Nike shoe and people said well these people were sending new personal best well there's this whole idea in running and for exercise in general and moving in general the central governor theory basically your brain is telling you here's when we when you should put the brakes on because it's going to hurt you otherwise and what many endurance athletes find in particular in power athletes as well is that your brain is telling you to chill out well before you really need to and so people are learning how to listen to when they get those signals saying I need to stop and then just they keep going past those initial signals they eventually stop the eventually the signals get so loud they stop but my argument would be that a lot of what's happening for people when they're if they're setting personal best in some magic new shoe that no one knows why it's producing magic effects is that basically it's essentially placebo effect and what's happening is they're getting those central governor messages and just either ignoring them or reframing so yeah anyway that's a tangent from this whole thing about how bodies can be super strong if they're allowed to if you will yes crawl you've at least both you have mentioned the phrase crawling in chains a few times would you please elaborate yeah I think that's totally I'm sorry I'm going for because I've got a chain crawling here because I was imagining when you said crawling with chains to a field I'm thinking that someone's got you hooked up to a plow basically because if not they were missing out on an opportunity so talk about so we've gone from rocking and we talked about crawling so let's talk about these progressions and then talk about adding chains to mix too so rocking teaches your body where all your joints are and it teaches your muscle your stabilizer how to stabilize your joints so that your prime movers can move your joints so basically it really sets your body free to move and then crawling coordinates the opposing limb pattern and ties your body together so that you can generate well so one that you can move from A to B efficiently but it also helps talk about it together so you can generate speed and power and fluidity so once once you're tied together well and you move well you can add loads or resistance to the movement patterns to strengthen your body and those patterns so that you can exude or demonstrate more strength so what I used to do in our old studio we had a big grass field behind the studio and I would go out back and I would crawl it was a yard field and I would crawl 80 yards with chains tied to my body so I was creating resistance or drag so just a additional weight you could have done this with a weight invested if you weren't such a dork but it looks so much clean yes you just prove my point yes it looks so nice that sounds amazing but so really though the chain though depending on the surface like grass or sand it accumulates a certain amount of friction the longer the chain is so it's not the same area too whereas a weight vest pushes straight down on the body when you're dragging a chain you got resistance pulling in the line against the line of direction you're trying to go yeah yeah so it's just a fun way to train there's a oh man i just blanked on the name of this device i've done a review of it i have it in my car it's essentially it's why can't i remember the name of this is going to make me crazy we use this on the track like i just want some huh does it have a bungee behind it or no it's like a spindle so it's got a rope that goes through it's like a tube it's about ten inches long basically it's got a spindle on the inside and so the rope goes around the spindle you turn the inside spindle it makes the rope loop around the spindle which creates more resistance oh my god so as i've gotten older i can't do names and then apparently i can't remember oh exergeny there it is so the exergeny it's advice is sometimes invented like in the 70s disappeared someone brought it back a little while ago it's awesome but so instead of chains same idea and yes it's got like a 40 meter long rope and so just having that rope on the ground creates the extra friction you feel it once you get past the halfway point you've passed the other end of the rope it starts getting easier because there's less rope on the ground creating friction but basically you can create as much resistance as you want without all that extra weight with all the extra it's a really it's a really fun device you'll have to look it up i think you would totally get a kick out of it oh i'm definitely gonna google that now and i'm not gonna forget the name exergeny exergeny sounds fun like you want to rub it and something pops out of the bottle it's great it's kind of like that um but not at all like that okay i know if i not even close but it's super super cool and it's we use it for either kind of resisted running so just we'll set it to a amount of resistance that gives you just a little bit as you're running to the kind of thing where it's so much resistance that you're just trying to walk and you basically have to be at an angle you're leaning forward it's pulling you back you're leaning forward your nose is almost on the ground because that's the only angle where you can get enough force to make it to make yourself move it's a blast i am intrigued i'm talking about to get one it's a good time i think i have a link on my website but be that okay anyway i don't know where i wanted to go after that so what are the other things other than sticking chains on your body and crawling across a field much to the amusement of your neighbors well that does amusement neighbors actually get you in trouble with your spouse a lot else they told you can't just leave there see my wife is so used to the insane things that i don't think anything would get me in trouble with her what kind of trouble do you get in crawling on a change that seems normally uh no so my wife's pre-proper and she doesn't like me so what it was is i was crawling through one of our neighbors yard in their grass because they had a nice lawn and they were asleep but i wasn't harming anyone but somebody drove by and called my neighbors and told them that somebody was crawling in their yard and this somehow got back to my wife and i was heavily reprimanded until i will never do that again so that's what happens so i've got to ask one question why were you crawling in your neighbor's yard they had really nice grass textures everything you should know this you know when you run barefooted man it's all about the texture yeah that's true well we did the neighbors complained or did it was only your wife no so they thought it was funny but they told my wife and she stuff like that is i wouldn't say mortified but she didn't like it so now the main important question that is did you stop or did you just make sure that she was never going to find out about it when you did it again no i just do it down the street where she can't see like in other neighbors are people that i don't know jar complete stranger job so now i just want to be the neighbors who come home and see a guy crawling through their backyard and chains i think i'll be all so listen no i've opened my game so what i do now i don't know if you've seen those hyperware sandbags but they're just disc filled with sand so i've got one that weighs 50 pounds and i would put it on my head and march to the neighborhood so i'm the guy in the neighborhood with the big sunbrera do you know nik nelson no nik nelson he calls himself the mad scientist of muscle nik is famous for just coming up with these crazy exercise variations it's a big fan of zero shoes if you go to his it's nil so and if you look him up on youtube you can find videos a lot of these wearing either the pre-order this before sir actually sometimes where's the um um well all our issues he has in different videos but he will do things like just i think he was gonna call to sack and but he'll walk back and forth while carrying 500 pounds on this yoke that he invented or doing other similarly insane shit that the two of you i think would get along quite swimmingly i've got a really good friend that is very much trains like that as well john brook build he carried on you know john you think he's the inventor of battling ropes oh yeah yeah y'all don't i'm gonna have to do any training you guys i think you all right i'm in so i so we talk a bit about getting stronger doing less but we then diverge a bit just to talk about you trespassing and not getting arrested yeah what else do you want to share just about the work that you're doing what you're seeing with people like let me back up to this why do people come to see you to begin with one of the things that you hear people are interested in or complaining about or suffering from yeah so we have original strength which is a company that so we do certifications for fitness professionals and chiropractors physical therapists things like that so we certify professionals on how to help their clients and patients but then we also have a gym here where we tend to bring in people that are feeling broken in tons of different ways whether it's they've they injured themselves years ago and they just now are getting around to the fact that it's bothering them they can't play soccer with their kids so you know they did some crazy work out at another gym and injured themselves and they are afraid to go back and so they can figure out how to do it right whatever it is but it's lots of different types of injuries and pain but more of just a feeling of i know i don't feel well i'm hurting i don't want to feel fragile and weak anymore i want i know i want to be able to do things and i'm sick of some whether it's a doctor told i'm like hey you're just not gonna be able to do that anymore or them thinking i just can't do this anymore we open the doors to them so we plant this little seed of hope yes you can and we show them how with really simple movement like we were talking about before so we start with a basics of just teaching how to press reset and then helping them move their body as it's naturally supposed to move focusing on squatting and hinging and pushing and pulling and doing all sorts of fun stuff so if you give the body what it needs it knows how to heal itself and so movement is so nice you say it twice movement movement and what your body really wants and needs is movement and with the right movement it can heal itself so you just hint it at some of the other things we have squatting we have hip hinging we have pulling we have pushing anything else that we're missing there's got to be a twisting thing in there somewhere there is get we would vangi on he calls it getting up from the ground getting up it creates rotation but then gate pattern also creates rotation and twisting so gate pattern would be the big one if you're going to add a fifth one in there so do you want to touch on each of those sure why not we got time to kill what the hell so i've got a really wise friend who just looks at the body and house design to move and he says the body is designed to do and his name is dange on by the way super famous nice guy but he says the body is designed to do five things push pull hinge squat and carry and if we honor those five things and we do them regularly your body will always be strong and able to do what you want to do as you go through life right before we started this a friend of my sent me a video it's a woman i name and it's not that i forgot it i never knew it so i'm giving myself that clarification i can look it up but i skipped into the video after where they told her name she weighs 120 pounds she just squatted 495 it was really amazing now again that's a big weightlifting thing so when we talk about some of these activities hinging squatting pushing pulling again most people think of that either from weightlifting or the body weight analog of that of doing push-ups and pull-ups and whatever i'm imagining that you have a different take on many if not all of those yes so we can cover squatting and hinging with the rocking motion we can we and even pushing because we're pushing our bodies away from the ground crawling definitely is pushing away from the ground in the legs and the feet but it also if you look at the pattern that the legs go through when you crawl we're still working on hinging and now squatting in itself is a sitting and resting position that we should actually have even when we're 99 years old it shouldn't be what we call a third world squat it should be an everyday i can just squat because i'm a two squat and then carrying things well that's how we're designed to pick things up and we walk from one place to another and the way we get them there is we carry it so i i guess our take could be different but if you love to live weights the the developmental sequence or the movements that you were pre-programmed with if you engage in those regularly it will allow you to live weight so much easier and so much better you'll enjoy it better and when we move that into the gate pattern let's since a lot of people came to this from running and the barefoot running or minimalist running or natural running how everyone framed that can you talk about what you've seen and what you've done with people whether it's walking or running for improving their gate pattern yeah or anything you want to talk about just as we talk about moving and gait yeah so it's really interesting obviously and you know this but people can walk right or you see them walking in a store or down the mall or whatever but they're really going from one place to another but they're not truly truly walking with their appropriate gate pattern so if you watch someone so if people didn't see danny did then move she got behind you and was next thing yeah so we've learned how to walk just using our legs but our foundational gate pattern is where all four limbs are moving so if i'm crawling on the floor if i'm just moving my legs i'm not crawling right i need my arms and my legs to dance together to crawl but that's the foundational gate pattern so when i'm walking or when i'm running i want my arms and legs to dance together because that's why it strengthens my nervous system and keeps my body healthy and resilient as the years go by so if we help an adult remember how to crawl they will walk better and they will run better and they will produce and transfer force and energies better that their body comes into contact with so are you doing anything explicitly about walking or running or just or doing something about that transfer or you just it's a transfer so if we make the very beginning gate pattern solid and very fluid then the gate patterns that are built on top of that become more fluid and better as well got it i imagine people walking into your place i'm wearing big they can't even control padded shoes yes yes what happens when that happens well so we have two rules and they're very important rules because they deal with the nervous system the first one is don't move in the pain and the second one is don't move into fear so we have to meet people where they're at because if they if we move them into fear their nervous system is going to guard and protect them anyway they're not going to move nearly the way that we want them to be able to move so that they can experience how powerful movement is so what we do is we politely and gently encourage people you can take off your shoes if you want and then as they get more into the crazy stuff that we teach we can have a deeper conversation about footwear and things like that interesting well i found that in different parts of the country there's different attitudes and opinions about the whole barefoot thing i was in a store recently into winter here in colorado in bare feet and someone made some comment about it not derogatory but just like oh my god you're not wearing shoes and i said imagine what would it be like if we were at the beach where you just wouldn't even think about that would be a common thing it's just that it's winter and it's colorado it strikes you as unusual so there's a location thing there's also having spent time in south there's also the cultural component as well how have you had to deal with that sorry i'm just laughing because he'll take his shoes off and walk down the street right last we're going to the copy shop all the time so oh i was in costco recently and they stopped me very like some of the employees were very very upset and they said are you okay i said yeah why this you're wearing shoes so wow i haven't had that so here there used to be signs on the stores that said no shirt no shoes no service right now it's very big here which and i'm so tired of putting on a shirt every time i walk into a store but the thing is you walk in with a shirt and shoes and no pants it didn't seem well because they're exactly they don't care if you wear pants or not i was always confused about that but so really i had to ask you again what was the question because now my brain is so much i'm just intrigued by because colorado especially thing it's a hippie town where i am so it's not insane but in some parts of the country and the south more than others not trying to or the south if you're not by the beach or by the water you know it's definitely us what you say i can say conservative we can say it okay conservative watch and say just what going on barefoot is the kind of thing that you definitely get more looks than you would in other places i mean new york city you get a lot of looks people are freaking out if you do that very fun to do by the way a lot of the roads are like super smooth inside walks or it's awesome and say you know wash your feet at the end of the day it's not a big deal but but anyway i'm just curious what it's like dealing with people that you're they're local and giving them that gentle invitation to go barefoot what happens after that like so here like danny mentioned earlier we just create a culture of where it's the norm so if you want to wear your shoes or they're really thick you're almost going to be the outlier right or that may get your attention and maybe you want to fit in and see what everybody else is what the fuss is about why are they barefoot or why are they wearing the zero shoes so really we don't have that much of a issue here right because we said the expectations and really we just tell them upfront hey your body is amazingly wonderfully made and this is how it's designed right and want to optimize that design or that your function then you stick as close to the design as possible and if you got feedback from people when they started to spend wartime barefoot a couple i think there's majorly switching over shoes but we've had a lot of people switch from wearing the big thick chunky shoes to wearing minimalist shoes because they know that it feels better and they move better they feel the floor better they're better at their movement patterns that we have and we have a lot of a column compromises where they feel okay being in their socks without shoes but they don't want to take their socks off on the floor and walk around because to them oh it's icky that somebody else is walking barefoot on the floor and it's just fascinating it's just but people have their own issues right but yeah but they are coming out of their shoes and wearing socks so it's still good it's still now they're not getting the full benefit of all the different textures but it's a good place to be i'm just so curious i haven't really this is sounds silly i've been running zero shoes for ten years with my wife i've been barefoot for a few years before that it never i never really sat to think like why is it that people have such a thing about feet and bare feet and walking on something where we know it's totally safe it's not gonna be an issue it's you know what and of course in other places in the world it's not an issue what is it what are they thinking that makes them say something like i don't think it does i think people are afraid of like germs i think it's germs we live in a there's hand sanitizer stuff everywhere you go people are always like where's your stuff but and there's that like whole connotation of like people some people having stinky feet or sweaty feet you know maybe they're like just real self conscious but i want to make some that way of shoes though yeah exactly that's the irony yeah it's just such a fascinating thing because of course we'll get more germs and transmit more diseases by shaking someone's hand or being in a room where someone is ill and then rubbing our eyes the feet are so less likely to be a cause of something unless you're walking through poop or doing something where obviously that's a problem but a why would you do that it's one of my favorite things when someone when they talk about walking or running barefoot they go aren't you afraid of stepping a dog poop i go when's the last time you stepped in dog poop you know i don't know like 20 years ago it's like why did you start now if you took off your shoes typically wearing shoes or barefoot i try not to do that exactly i'm i make an effort to not do that of course it's not really difficult i i don't have you used these things called eyes have you ever tried using those when you're walking they're amazing you can see things with them and then adapt how you're moving it's crazy but we're like this but you probably know this too even if your eyes can't catch something if you spend a lot of time walking barefoot your feet will catch them the eyes can't oh yeah i wish there are a number of things that i regret from i wish i could go back in time one is i wish i could had a picture of what my footprint looked like when i got out of the hot tub because it just looked like an oval with dots and now it looks like a footprint and the other is i wish there was a way of testing my reflex arc and the flexibility and strength in my foot i wish i'd done all those things i can compare now because in addition to getting more flexible and stronger it feels like i'm just reflexively faster if i start to step on something that's not gonna feel good i'm off it more quickly and i don't have any way of proving that unfortunately i wish that i had that kind of foresight man that would be amazing information to have if you could find somebody that you were warming up to transition from regular shoes to your shoes that would be the great place to test that's a really interesting one but the challenge with doing any of these things where you want to study someone doing something like that over a period of time because that's going to be a six-month multi-year process because you'll probably have a for many people they'll be a kind of quick learning at first and then it's going to slow down but continue moving continue improving anything like that the cost we're doing that kind of study is super super high and it's one of the things lain and i have on our to-do list is raising some capital raising some money so that we can support some studies like that just to see what happens of course the challenge there is that if they prove the obvious thing that using your feet is better than not using your feet and has all these value value ads people say yeah but you guys paid for the study wow i mean yeah what do you do this something i talked to sarah ridge on a previous podcast episode i called something like the stupid stupidest research ever done but sarah does research showing that if you walk in a pair of minimal shoes your feet kept stronger in the same way that they would if you did an explicit foot strengthening exercise program and i said isn't it amazingly stupid that we have to demonstrate that using your feet is better than not using your feet when the shoe companies have never demonstrated anything showing the value of what they're doing the natural movement people have to prove that natural is better than not crazy well whenever you're going against the grain like everybody wants proof well right and even that's the thing that's so funny is we're not going against the grain if you i know human beings wear for a long time and the advent of the modern motion control pad and shoes is the last 50 years so for 99.995 percent of human history we've been wearing minimalist shoes or going barefoot or something like that something just a little protection for your foot something to hold that protection on your foot that's it so we're not the intervention the intervention is all the new stuff the intervention is the Nike Vaporfly and the hookah and everything really and i was i did a panel discussion with the american college sports medicine a year and a half ago and the guys there's got some books on the gaffromeditas who made a comment about we're trying to improve performance and reduce injury but we can't prove that we can do that because that would be really expensive and cost a lot of time and have a lot of confounding factors and all i can think was dude if either one of you could make a shoe demonstrably better than the guys sitting next to you that's worth billions of dollars a year and you're telling me you're not doing it because it's difficult and expensive but the fact that they had no evidence and i just then one of my slides i pulled up like 20 studies from PubMed showing how natural movement is better so Isabel Sacco and Brazil showing how he can get rid of the arthritis and Sarah's research about foot strengthening it just goes on and on and on but that research gets no attention because there aren't multi-billion dollar companies promoting the research so anyway he says ranting no we get it yeah and you i think what you just said as far as you're not going against the green is a really cool way to look at it however unfortunately the rest of society doesn't know that and we go with the same thing too everyone wants the complex the sexy the new the best the next best thing i mean the fall you have to offer is crawling around and chains you know where's the fun of that so so the honest the good news is you don't even have to use a chain just crawling well wait do you have a little gadget geek that i am in fact i'll tell this story being that it is that present giving season and my mother-in-law sent me some money which is very kind and completely stupid and ridiculous but she does it all the time anyway and all i can do is say thank you but there's just no need to give 57 year old man uh christmas men regardless i was thinking i want to spend a little money there's a toy that i wanted to get for a while and then i got a letter two days later from the surgeons who did my shoulder surgery three years ago saying hey we just did we're at we're auditing our numbers and you apparently overpaid and they sent me a check for fifteen hundred dollars what though i exactly that's the first thing i said and then second thing was maybe they made a mistake and the third thing is not here i'm catching this thing uh so uh so i bought a toy it's a Nordic hamstring curl machine basically just you know as a sprinter e-centric hamstring strength is usually important so i got to do that it makes me very happy i love this thing so anyway that's good to but other than chains and so that's my way of saying i like toys so other than chains what other toys might i play with if i were hanging out with you well i'm going to just throw this in there your own body for sure best thing i know i know come on all right all right toys yeah toys i don't know we have so many toys we're really big fans of the hyperware sandbells and also the hyperware weighted vests those are both great pieces of equipment that you can use for a lot of different types of training i like sleds pushing and pulling stuff dude you were gonna so love the extra duty yeah all right i'm in all the fun of a sled without a slam and that's what i mean because i travel yeah but yeah we love sleds and slam balls like yeah we're soft i call them salt atlas zones where you can just pick them up in the new room and stuff like that at different weights those are there's a guy that i met he's here in town who actually when i met him we were to an event was a lunch physical product CEOs and i'm sitting next to me so what do you do you because i make an adjustable weight medicine ball i said oh cool how does that work he goes i can't tell you that it's healthy and i said yeah because what i'm gonna do is i'm gonna drop my multi-million dollar company it's your stupid idea can you say that to him i did and uh about ten minutes later he walks back up and he goes my apologies here's how it works so anyway it's crazy expensive but i saw them recently and it's really fun because you can actually it's basically just a medicine ball where you it's gotten like a screw on cap if you will you can put different weights on the inside of it very clever and expensive but for travel and for convenience that works out well but i love things you can throw and slam and hit walls with stuff like that yeah and then the other thing for all of those things you could do we have ropes imagine that we've got ropes and chains all kinds of fun things yeah you might want to clarify that i would with that yeah come on over we have a lot of ropes and chains come here let me show you something but that's you know what it might work i don't know what it might work you know i'm curious i'm curious if you want to come in the door i've got ropes and chains come on let me show you something i'm not gonna lie Stephen i've had phone calls people calling in being like yeah i saw this guy walking around my neighborhood with thing on his head and walking with sticks he uses Indian gloves and i hear he owns this place can i come work out here so people like it curiosity yeah yeah that's good cool those are all good toys but the thing that i like about them is that they all do have one thing in common which is what you've been done before it's basically giving you a way of i don't want to use the word exaggerating but just adding some added element to this natural movement yes yeah and so the way we explain it to people is once we teach them how to press reset and tie their body together then we put them through natural movement um and really we teach them how to be farmers like it's funny yeah yeah it's funny you say that i was at the first paleo effects conference i was on a panel discussion about natural movement things and at one point i said look let's just cut to the chase everything we're doing here is fake natural movement really because no one is walking down to the river and picking up stones and bringing them back to build a house no one is running to catch their food or running away so they don't become food and the difference in that one is so noticeable because i don't care how fast you run and how much you're doing high intensity intervals when i got trained i run as hard as i can maybe i'm a little sore the next day when i am at a track meet and i run one fast race i can't move for the next four days the whole hormonal thing that goes on when you're in competition mode and that's not even the same as being chased by or chasing something but it's the closest that we get in a controlled circumstance whole different game so we're doing these things to do the best we can to imitate what it would be if we were living in a very different world yeah and basically we do them here too because outside of here people still have a like they want to live and we're in a rural place where people do yard work they shovel mulch they say plant trees and they work and so just being able to do that stuff easier is and we're improving quality of life yeah yeah that's great is there anything we want to jump into tackle talk about anything that i missed i don't know i've learned that if i wrote the exer genie will Smith will not pop out so that's pretty much the subliminal message i've been trying to communicate the whole time i'm glad you picked up um yeah i my shirt doesn't say zero shoes it says exer genie will speak about bro i do have a question for you so you're new your news before shoot yeah do you run sprints in it yeah yeah i'm wearing right now i'll tell you you know when i come to the office i normally just kick off my shoes right away i mean i'm more like barefoot most of the time and the only reason that i wear shoes even in the winter around here is because in the parking lot of our office for some reason that no one has ever been able to explain it's always muddy and i'm just i'm lazy and so rather and sometimes i can jump over it but basically i put on shoes so i don't have to deal with a mud in the parking lot and then i come in here and came off i keep wearing these i keep forgetting that i have mon so but i'm sorry go answer your question though so yeah when i'm on the track and so for people who don't know i'm a competitive sprinter i'll do all my one-month barefoot and drills barefoot and then when i've got to go for speed i'll put on my speed force now i was wearing the pre-order before and now i'm wearing speed force i feel like they give me as much grip as my sprinting spikes do and partly because i'm able to move my foot more than i can in my spikes because they squeeze your toes together and don't let your foot move but also they're crazy grippy and they're really lightweight it really feels it's my favorite you'd run in and all my training partners are doing the same now and some of them were like yeah i like the pre-order but i can't really run in it's a little too heavy for me and then the speed force is what i'm wearing now i'm actually working on a sprinting spike it's i've got a kind of skunk works project it has no spikes and it's a squeeze your toes together it's super super cool but hopefully that's a better your way anyway but so yes i do but you would have followed questions i'm like yeah well no i was gonna say that's my biggest complaint about the speed force is that typically before i had my pair i would come around and i'd walk around and hear barefoot or without shoes but now that i wear these things all the time i know it's crazy i don't take them off and i've worn them every single day i know i know and look i'm not sure exactly when this episode's gonna air but i'll hint at something we've got another shoe coming out called the hfs which stands for holy something something and it's a tiny bit heavier the upper is a little bit lighter and the tread is a little more road friendly if you will i'm gonna show it really quick it's a teaser it's very that's cool yeah it's super super cool and similarly we got a few samples here in the office just to make sure the production run is going correctly and people who've been wearing the speed force now they're going i don't know which to wear i'm going back and forth so we're really committed to do so we've also got we have a couple other shoes that we develop for 2020 in particular where the people who are testing were going i keep forgetting them wearing them now we've been hearing that since day one but even more with some of these because they're even lighter they're even more flexible they breathe even more and yeah it is pretty wacky i'm having the same experience you are it's very weird i find myself wearing shoes majority today because i just forget i just don't even notice it so my wife's yelling at me at home always telling me to take my shoes off now she doesn't want me wearing my carpet inside i just don't crawl through the neighbor's yards she's a ball buster jeez oh she runs a tight ship she does she's not gonna watch this so i'm oh man i can only i wonder if lana is embarrassed by all the things that i do or not i've never asked her she's never said anything so i'm assuming she's totally fine or just walks further away so people don't know that that's probably what it is i'm sure she's used to it like i'm hoping i'm going to do it yeah she's definitely used to it i'm sure there's things every now and then she's got to be rolling her eyes my parents my parents very early on so i came i come from a let's call it nominally jewish family we had i don't we went to syna gaga on the high holidays and that's it that was really it but my parents used to say to me my mom and particular actually my dad and particular we want you to marry nice jewish girl and he said you have no idea how hard it is to put up with me if i can find anyone who can do that end of story and then they met lana and i said are you okay with the fact that she's not jewish and they said look we just seen it in your previous relationships you started out happy and then got less happy and this one you started out happy and have gotten happier and that's all we care about and i said okay where did you put my real parents and it's been true so i'm an incredibly lucky human being in fact my mom has Alzheimer's when she after she had long ago forgotten who i was would spontaneously say lana's the best thing to ever have is she is totally correct so it's a good one so yeah my apologies for now creating this additional strife in your relationship where your wife now complains that you're wearing shoes i will do my best to make that worse for her thank you any additional options where you do this there's actually funny one going on right now i can't wait to see how it pans out peter it's he's a doctor and very interesting health edict guy and he's been wearing the pre-owned speed force and his wife is totally not crazy about the pre-owned i think he's if he's about speed force i'm hoping that i find something that he likes that she likes as well that's my new challenge and sometimes we can get away around sometimes we'll have it is polarizing there's times where people wear our sandals and the spouse will complain about how they look and then we get them another sandal and they go actually like that one so it's a very funny thing some people we've had people make a comment about the exact same shoe one saying that's too masculine and then the next breath someone saying that's too feminine okay then you're clearly both right yes anyway all right anything else before we call it a wonderful day well i would just love to point out if anyone wants to learn more about or just try to do that but go okay okay okay let's say if people want to learn more where they go but so you pre-empted it but please continue all right well i was gonna say if anyone wants to learn more about original strength wait wait hold on not if when when so tim has written several books they are fabulous you want to check out pressing reset reloaded it's on amazon or on our website at originalstrength.net we've got tons of free content on youtube blogs every week videos just a lot tons of content out there and we also have an online platform for anyone looking for some coaching specifically at osionline.com and i can get lots of cool programming and other information and even random recipes that we like and then certification for people who are fitness professionals who are looking to integrate this yes yes so any fitness professionals looking to help simplify movement and help change the industry and get people moving better faster check out originalstrength.net we've got certifications happening all over the world and something coming up here and we would love to meet you and see you and help you help people better well first of all thank you thank you both secondly i hope everyone does come check it out third i want to say something i've been trying to avoid saying this entire time and that and for people who aren't seeing this you'll have a fine video to see it i just want to let everyone know that no cows were harmed in the making of dandy's earrings no but they're pretty legit right they're awesome they're so full steam hold on earrings right there. oh that's right no cows or down mations were harmed in your earrings. okay well anyway thank you thank you thank you it's been a total pleasure and thank you for the support you've given us over the years it's all it's been a real treat and watching how you guys have grown this has been really really last so kudos to you anyway that's beyond that for everyone else thank you again go to www.jointhemovementmovementmovement.com where you can find free this episodes and how to find us in all the different places where you can find podcasts and videos and places to interact if you have any feedback or have anyone you think should be on the show drop me an email just move at jointhemovement.com by the way that is move at not just move at so move at jointhemovementmovementmovement.com and most importantly go out have fun and live life be first take care