Episode 235-The Gun Owner’s Digital Second Amendment

Episode 235-The Gun Owner’s Digital Second Amendment Also Available OnSearchable Podcast TranscriptGun Lawyer– Episode 235 SPEAKERS Evan Nappen, Teddy Nappen Evan Nappen 00:14 I’m Evan Nappen. Teddy Nappen 00:16 and I’m Teddy Nappen. Evan Nappen 00:17 and welcome to Gun Lawyer. So, I’d like to tell all of you about what is known as the digital Second Amendment. Now, this is a new law that I think is going to become a very popular law that other states are going to pass. This was just passed by the state of Montana that, of course, enormously respects the Second Amendment and our civil rights under the Second Amendment. And it’s not just a Second Amendment, but it’s actually a First Amendment case that directly impacts the Second Amendment and is the opposite of what we are experiencing in the gun rights oppression state of New Jersey. Evan Nappen 01:07 So, I learned of this from AmmoLand. (https://www.ammoland.com/2025/04/montana-just-gave-gun- owners-a-digital-second-amendment/) AmmoLand is a great news feed, news aggregate, a great site. If you don’t get AmmoLand, you should. It’s great. The editor in chief, who’s friend of mine, Freddie, is really great guy. He put this article out about Montana, and I think it is really something that we’re going to see more of and hopefully will see more of in the future. Now, I’m not saying that New Jersey could get this passed, but many other states will, and maybe even a federal law. These laws start out in the States, and then we can get a federal law that can maybe do it. Evan Nappen 01:46 What Montana has passed, it’s very cool, is known as the Montana Right to Compute Act (MRTCA). The right to compute. So, what they’re doing is making access to computer tools, in effect, part of our Constitutional liberty. And this is really great. It is a complete flip of the script for what the gun rights oppressionists have done in terms of limiting our ability to access digital information regarding firearms. Murphy and company, the Democrats, and the other gun rights suppressors, have passed laws in New Jersey restricting your right to compute. We’ve seen the restriction on the right to compute, going at code, going at things in the cloud, 3D printers, et cetera, and they’re trying to destroy and stop and choke out tools and files and knowledge. That’s right. It’s all about knowledge. It’s about knowledge. Evan Nappen 03:03 For example, as the editor points out in the article, DA Alvin Bragg pressured to have 3D printer companies install firmware to block printing gun parts and censor cloud-based CAD files. The ATF and DOJ have held closed-door meetings urging tech developers to implement software blocks, cloud file Page – 1 – of 14scans, and AI-based detection of “gun shaped” files. A federal judge in New Jersey ruled CAD files are “functional”, not expressive. Meaning, in New Jersey, the judge found that they don’t qualify as free speech. Outrageous. Of course, that’s what gun rights suppression is all about. And DHS admits to monitoring 3D printer purchases by Americans with the help of Amazon, eBay and PayPal. All this is in the article. Evan Nappen 04:04 So, what did Montana do? What Montana did is pass this Act that is something that other free states, other states, and all states, frankly, should consider. Under this Act, it’s really interesting. What it does is it forces any restriction on a citizen’s ability to use or share digital tools, it must pass strict scrutiny, the highest level of a test of a law. That’s the same rigorous tests that’s used to defend our core Constitutional rights like freedom of speech, freedom of religion and, of course, supposedly, the right to keep and bear arms as well. But this law will mandate it, and here’s what it does. Evan Nappen 04:56 It means that if any Government entity, state or city, in Montana tries to ban CAD files, restrict 3D printing of firearm components, force firmware changes on printers, or censor gun-related codes or forms, the Government will have the burden to prove that it’s absolutely necessary, narrowly tailored in pursuit of a compelling state interest. In short, that is an incredibly tall burden for the state to meet, and by doing that, it will greatly restrict the gun rights oppressors from repressing our First Amendment rights, our right to information, our right to compute. So, I want to give kudos to Montana for breaking ground here and being the first state to pass such a law, going the opposite direction of the gun rights oppressors in protecting our digital Second Amendment rights, and they’ve done it without naming guns. They’ve just laid the foundation for protecting hobbyists who use 3D printers to legally build guns, shielding code-sharing platforms from activist prosecutors and preventing tech companies from being deputized as gun control agents. And as the editor points out, we now have a blueprint to push back against such digital disarmament. Evan Nappen 06:55 As the author points out, from John Lott to Defense Distributed, one truth keeps coming up. 3D printers mean the end to any gun control. Let that sink in. 3D printers mean the end to any gun control. Because once you can make it yourself and use it and do it, you don’t need a permission slip, and government doesn’t control it, even though they’re trying to oppress our rights in every way, by utilizing and stopping technology of liberty. Montana had this excellent idea. Teddy Nappen 07:38 I’m kind of curious, though. Just as example, would this go into since, like, one example being like PDFs where it actually has, you know, like a poor man’s James Bond, or any of the instruction manuals on how to make guns from scratch. Would they go as far as to, you know, breakdown if you want to make them in your home. Or, like, instruction manuals that you can get online. Evan Nappen 08:05 New Jersey is so broad that who knows where the boundaries are under New Jersey’s restriction on First Amendment when it comes to Second Amendment. But a law like this will obviously protect those Page – 2 – of 14rights, and it’s something that hopefully we’ll see a trend of many other states following suit. This is an exciting development in a pro-Second Amendment civil rights law, and I’m glad to see it. Finally, a counter blow to the gun rights oppressionists, and it’s a good one. So, we’re going to keep our eye on this. We’ll look for other states that follow suit. Good job, Montana. We love seeing states take great action defending our Constitutional rights. Evan Nappen 09:02 Now I have an interesting letter here from Mark regarding CCARE. Mark says, I listen to your excellent podcast every week, and I try to digest and remember all of the information that you and Teddy present. I do remember one of your podcasts pertaining to whom a PTC holder might divulge if they are carrying a firearm or not. Which is true, that’s our duty to disclose that New Jersey has where you’re required to tell the officer immediately upon being stopped or detained, that you’re carrying a firearm, and you must present your carry permit. Failure to do those things are criminal offenses. So, you want to make sure you do that. But he continues. My question is, my niece, a lawyer. Those damn lawyers. Asked me on Easter Sunday if I was carrying my firearm, and I told her that she should not ask that question as she is not law enforcement. I guess he meant to say officer. And I do not have the duty to inform her as to what my carry condition is, even at her parent’s house. I was not carrying of course, but was I correct? Evan Nappen 10:11 Well, there are two things here. One is, remember, there is a sensitive place issue over private property not open to the public. So, if this was private property not open to the public, then you would need permission to carry your firearm, your handgun, on that property. Now, in this case, he wasn’t carrying. The only way he could legally be carrying under current state law, if this was in New Jersey, because of New Jersey’s sensitive place, is if he had permission. So, when it comes to private property, private property open to the public, that portion of the sensitive place law has been enjoined and is not in effect right now. But if it is private property that’s not open to the public, you need permission, either by way of a sign or actual permission given, even verbally, that you can carry there. But that, apparently, is not the issue, really, because he wasn’t carrying, so he wasn’t in a sensitive place. The actual question, because he wasn’t carrying. He was not carrying there. So, don’t worry whether it’s a sensitive place or not. He’s not carrying. Evan Nappen 11:22 However, it’s a little deeper than that, because the question by his lawyer niece is one of, are you carrying now? Wanting to actually know that. And his response was somewhat, I guess, legalistic, and saying, well, you’re not a cop, so I don’t have to tell you jack. I totally understand that sentiment, but there might be a somewhat better way to express it. And what I would recommend, if you are ever asked that question, is just respond with “that’s a personal question, and I don’t answer personal questions.” That’s all you have to say. It’s a personal question, and I don’t answer personal questions. Set your boundaries. You should set your boundaries whenever anyone’s talking to you about anything. I mean to ask whether you’re carrying is a personal question. Page – 3 – of 14Evan Nappen 12:21 It’s right up there asking, hey, are you on birth control? Do you believe in God? By the way, how much money do you make? Those are personal choices, folks. The classic is none of your business. But again, that’s harsh. We don’t have to be harsh. We don’t have to be confrontational, especially to family and relatives. Simply say, look, it’s a personal question, and I don’t answer personal questions. You’ve set your boundaries and now move on. So, I think that’s a good way to handle that and a smart way to handle it. Because, frankly, you have no obligation to reveal if you are carrying, except in the law enforcement situation, which that wasn’t. Other than that, there’s no reason to, unless you want to for some reason. But basically, no need to know if you are lawfully carrying, whether you are or not, and your ability to defend yourself, and you have that for when you choose, you’re justified in revealing it. And that’s how we do things, especially when it comes to setting our boundaries about anything that’s personal to us. Evan Nappen 13:32 Nobody has carte blanche into our personal choices in our life. Nobody does. If you learn to set your boundaries, you’ll be better off just in your own life, personally. Not just on this gun question, but on any question, set your boundaries. Don’t fall into the traps of being put into a situation where it can escalate and become an aggravation to all parties. I know that we’re going a little bit further, Teddy, here than just giving gun advice, but you know what? It’s life advice, and I’m all for that, because we’ve got to live our lives. Teddy Nappen 14:11 It kind of reminds me of what Benjamin Franklin recommended to be on our money. “Mind your business.” Evan Nappen 14:20 That’s right, that’s a good one. And we love that on the Fugio cent. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fugio_cent) That’s always good. And of course, you all, I’m sure, know the difference between in-laws and outlaws, and that’s outlaws are wanted. Anyway, bad joke. But I do want to mention our good friends at WeShoot. WeShoot has some exciting news. First of all, they’re offering a carry renewal class. So, if you need to get your CCARE, you want to also complete this great review renewal class. It’s Saturday, April 12, from 8:30 to 3:30pm. It’s a five-hour training course designed to get you fully prepared to carry and to do it right. You’ll learn how to safely and efficiently draw from a holster, understand critical carry concepts and walk away with the skills and confidence you need to protect yourself and your loved ones. The course meets the training requirements for New Jersey and is also recognized by many other states, including Florida. You’ll complete the CCARE protocol. There’ll be a 50-round, live fire test from three to 15 yards, using a two hand grip in a standing position. It’s straightforward, easily achievable, and built for every day carry training booked now. This class is very reasonable. It’s only $299.99 for five hours of top notch classroom and shooting qualification training only at WeShoot. So, go to weshootusa.com. It’s their fantastic website. You can check them out. Page – 4 – of 14Evan Nappen 16:00 Let me give you another announcement from WeShoot that you might be interested in. For one night, there will be a lawyer talking about everything you need to know about New Jersey gun laws and that lawyer is none other than yours truly, Evan Nappen. Teddy Nappen will also be there. So, if you want to meet us and criticize the podcast, go right ahead. Come and see us. We’ll be happy to sign autographs, even, if you’re desirous of such things. But actually, we’re going to do that on Tuesday, May 13, at 6pm at the Kava Coffee House in Howell Township. And guess how much it costs? It’s free, free. Come there, and I’ll be talking and answering all kinds of questions. We’ll have a good time. It is a seminar focused specifically on New Jersey firearm laws. You’ll be able to see me, and you’ll learn about transportation and self-defense and carry permits and sensitive places and all the good stuff that we love to talk about. And we’ll have a good time while we’re at it. So, keep that date in mind, Tuesday, May 13. It’s sponsored by WeShoot. We appreciate that. And U.S. Law Shield, and we’ll be there. Go to weshootusa.com for more information about that. Evan Nappen 17:26 Let me also mention our good friends at the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs. They are the premier gun rights organization in New Jersey. They are the ones that are litigating, as we speak, in federal court. Any day now, we should finally get some more results. We are waiting and waiting. Boy, the court sure take their time when it comes to gun rights, don’t they? But that’s how it is. It moves slowly, but we’re making progress. They’re fighting the assault firearm ban, the mag ban, the Carry Killer ban, helping folks every day. They are also dealing with the legislative threats that the gun rights oppressors in Trenton are bringing upon us. This is a critical organization for you to belong to. Make sure you join. You’ll get the email updates, and you’ll know what’s going on. You’ll know that you are part of the solution, and you want to be part of the solution. We’ve got to stick together, folks. This fight is about our precious rights. Join the fight, be part of it. (anjrpc.org) Evan Nappen 18:37 Also, let me take this opportunity to shamelessly promote my book New Jersey Gun Law, the Bible of New Jersey gun law. Boy, I hear stories every day. People call me how much it helped them. No joke. How they showed it to the law enforcement officer, how they brought it to the range, how they won the bet with their friend, how they use it, and they love it. It’s 120 topics all in a question and answer format. One of the things that they all mention is it makes a great bathroom book. That’s right. Because you can just read a chapter when you need it. It’s great. I would hope you wouldn’t use it for any other reason in the bathroom, but nonetheless, it’s your book. Do with it as you wish. But it is a great book. The one thing I would highly recommend is that you never lend it to anybody, because, as everyone tells me, you’ll never get it back. Evan Nappen 19:25 If you would like to get your copy of the guidebook, your indispensable guide to getting through the matrix, the insane matrix known as New Jersey Gun Law, go to EvanNappen.com and order your book today. It’s the 25th Anniversary Edition. And when you get the book, scan that QR code right on the front, and you can join for free, my private subscriber base. You’ll get notices of any of the law changes. You’ll get updates, and you can immediately download the 2025 Comprehensive Update. Part of that Page – 5 – of 14update includes a stand-alone chapter on “sensitive places”, saying where you can and can’t carry explaining it all in question and answer format. So, that is a definite. Make sure you get the book. Evan Nappen 20:12 Now we have the ever popular Press Checks segment with Teddy. Tell us, Teddy, what is today’s topic? Teddy Nappen 20:21 Well, as we know, Press Checks are always free, and again, all the wins across the board in terms of Second Amendment. You know, it brings a bit of irony and a bit of happiness when the Government is seeking to disarm itself. From our friends at BearingArms, a representative, U.S. Rep Barry Moore, has introduced a bill to disarm the IRS. (https://bearingarms.com/tomknighton/2025/04/15/republican- lawmaker-takes-aim-at-irs-guns-n1228313) It is to prohibit the IRS from using appropriated funds to purchase, receive, or store any firearm or ammunition, requires the IRS to transfer to the GSA any firearm or ammunition owned or controlled by the IRS. Within 30 days of the transfer, the GSA must initiate a sale or auction of any firearm to a licensed dealer and the auction of any ammo to the general public. So, let’s be on the lookout for IRS guns. Evan Nappen 21:21 Yeah. Well, you know you’re in for a really tough audit when they’re there with semi-automatic firearms at the meeting, I guess. Right? So, you know, why does the IRS even have firearms? What reason? But you know, so many of these agencies are armed. And you scratch your head and say, why? Teddy, what are some of the other agencies you’ve discovered that are actually armed by government funds? Teddy Nappen 21:49 Well, from “openthebooks.com”, where they go into details. You know, the classics. FBI and CIA. (https://www.openthebooks.com/substack-the-militarization-of-the-irs–the-facts-on-the-purchase-of- guns-ammunition-and-military-style-equipment-since-2006/) However. Evan Nappen 21:58 Well, the FBI is a law enforcement agency. So, that’s at least understandable. They should. If anyone should be armed, they should. They’re law enforcement. You know, in that regard, they’re dealing with bad guys that are dangerous. You know, putting law enforcement officer’s lives at risk. I understand that. Teddy Nappen 22:13 Yeah, and that would make sense, except 76 of the pencil pushing agencies. I love that. That’s how they describe it in the article. The pencil pushing agencies like the EPA, Social Security Administration, IRS, Human Health Services, Department of Transportation, etc. Evan Nappen 22:33 Oh, well, I guess they were gonna really force COVID shots. They were planning to do so, huh? Page – 6 – of 14Teddy Nappen 22:39 Yeah. And from another article from allgov.com, there’s also what they’ve used is the term SWAT teams. (http://www.allgov.com/news/top-stories/federal-agencies-with-guns-weather-service-social- security-railroad-retirement-board-140610?news=853369) They have different agencies that have SWAT teams. Like the Office of Personal Management, the Department of Labor, the National Aeronautics and Space Administration. Evan Nappen 22:58 Well, if the jello monsters from outer space come, we want them to be ready. Teddy Nappen 23:01 Yeah, the Food and Drug Administration and the Consumer Product Safety Committee. Evan Nappen 23:08 Oh, good one. Teddy Nappen 23:10 And Fish and Wildlife Services. Of course. Evan Nappen 23:12 Well, they might have a legitimate call for being out in the woods and all. But, you know, that’s really funny. Some of these agencies are like, what? Why are they armed? Yet, historically, there have been many different agencies through our history that have armed themselves, not just police. And you know, Teddy, I showed you one of the old Colts. I have one of the old Colts from the 1920s for the water supply through the county where they were armed. I guess they had to protect the water supply. So, maybe that makes sense. But you found some interesting historic guns in your research, haven’t you, that were? What were some of the fun ones you’ve discovered. Teddy Nappen 24:01 So, I was kind of going down a little bit of a rabbit hole trying to see what guns were issued to agencies. Two things caught my eye that I thought was pretty hilarious. First, at College Hill Arsenal, they were auctioning off a Remington-Keene Frontier Rifle that was purchased by the U.S. Department of Interior for the Bureau of Indian Affairs Tribal Police. (https://collegehillarsenal.com/Extremely-Rare-Fine- Remington-Keene-US-Indian-Police-Frontier-Rifle) Evan Nappen 24:26 Well, there you go. I guess they may have had some ideas behind that one, huh? Well, I guess if you’re way out west, you might need it for game or protection from bears and wolves. But then again, there may be the other side of having to defend yourself. Teddy Nappen 24:39 Well, they were worried. Well, they were worried that some of the Native Americans may have been worried about, you know, if they were going to endeavor to persevere. Page – 7 – of 14Evan Nappen 24:49 Right! Yeah, this is one way to force the endeavor to persevere. As you’re quoting from the Clint Eastwood movie. Evan Nappen 24:59 Yeah. Right. Good one, yeah. We shall endeavor to persevere, and then we armed ourselves and went to war after considering that. Yeah, that was good. Teddy Nappen 25:16 The other one I thought was kind of interesting where I was going down. I went to the war relics. (https://www.warrelics.eu/forum/world-firearms/us-post-office-revolver-manual-5310/) It was a forum, and someone took photos of the manual. This is a U.S. Post Office revolver manual for training the postal workers about carrying revolvers on duty. Evan Nappen 25:37 Were they the original dog shooters or something? Is that what was going on there? Teddy Nappen 25:40 I guess so. But it was pretty funny, because it had like the 1950s, as the Postal Service is looking to protect themselves in order to handle their packages and delivery. It’s just like written like. Evan Nappen 25:55 Could you imagine all mailmen carrying guns? It actually might be, you know, a good idea if mailmen are armed. Maybe it would itself reduce crime, because we all know how unbelievably efficient the post office is. So, I could just imagine every postal worker being armed. Oh, that would be good. But then again, what about when they go postal? Oh, yeah, that could be an issue, right? I don’t know. Teddy Nappen 26:14 Yeah, Mr. Postman don’t shoot or something. Evan Nappen 26:23 Yeah, right. Well, you know, the history, though, goes way back, which is actually interesting when it comes to bona fide law enforcement agencies having their own specific issued sidearm. That really originated with police agencies with Theodore Roosevelt when he was Police Commissioner in New York. Prior to that, agencies, departments, police, fireman, if you had a gun, you just picked whatever gun you wanted to carry. And it was Roosevelt in New York that said, hey, we want a standardized handgun. As a matter of fact, it was even prohibited for police to carry their guns, but they all did. So, what Roosevelt did was make it so they would be armed, but armed with the same revolver, and then be trained on that revolver. They had to make certain qualification scores with that revolver. This way they’d have standardized ammunition. Evan Nappen 27:22 He also had qualifications for fitness, believe it or not, too. Fitness and gun shooting. The very first departmental handgun ever issued in America was the Colt New Police .32 revolver. The Colt New Page – 8 – of 14Police. And it was done working with Theodore Roosevelt as Police Commissioner. This was before he was Governor, before he was President, before he was Secretary of the Navy. As Police Commissioner, he changed firearms in law enforcement to this day by having this standard firearm issued to the New York Police Department. The first year production of approximately 4500 Colt revolvers were issued in the 1890s. I believe it was 1896 or ’97 when he was Police Commissioner. That first year production, all the guns were marked along the back strap “New York City Police”. The engraving was Colt engraving that engraved it to New York City police, and every one of those went to a New York City police officer. It revolutionized having police issue firearms that are standard for a department. Evan Nappen 28:55 Now I have one of those original Teddy Roosevelt Colts, and it’s really cool. Because what happened was the police Gazette, which was a popular kind of newspaper magazine in the day, wrote about this, and I have a copy of the original article where they talked about Commissioner Roosevelt’s innovation in doing this. That, of course, made departments across the United States order these same guns from Colt, and you can find other guns that were also issue guns where they’re marked. I actually own a number of other ones, including Manchester, New Hampshire, and others that were the Colt New Police. This revolutionized firearms in law enforcement. It really was a historical moment that today we take for granted. When someone says I’m with the police department, you say, oh, really, what’s your department carry gun? Like it’s a known thing, right? And yet it wasn’t back then, until Roosevelt changed the world, if you will, when it comes to that. So, that’s pretty cool. And go ahead, Teddy. Evan Nappen 30:07 Yeah, what is it today? What is the FBI standard gun? Teddy Nappen 30:07 There was another thing that I saw. It was interesting. So, for department standard issue firearms, the FBI, like, what is their standard gun? It was. Teddy Nappen 30:20 It said Glock 19 M. Evan Nappen 30:24 Ah, the 19 M. Teddy Nappen 30:26 Yeah. Which I was like. Evan Nappen 30:27 It literally says 19 M on the slide. It’s literally identified as the M model, right? Teddy Nappen 30:30 Yeah. And I was like, wait, M. What does M mean? And so, what’s it? Page – 9 – of 14Evan Nappen 30:36 What makes it different? Teddy Nappen 30:37 So, this is a Glock actually made for the FBI. Evan Nappen 30:42 But it’s based on the 19, right? The Glock 19, the mid-size, nine millimeter, 15 round mag. Teddy Nappen 30:47 There was a great article by SWAT mag. (https://www.swatmag.com/article/fbi-issues-new-pistol-glock- 19m/) Prior to all this, basically, the bad word was the word Glock. Where all the FBI were like, oh, why do you have a Glock? Oh, God, don’t. Because they were afraid of it for the, you know, accidental discharges. But they actually got Gaston Glock to come to the FBI, showed them about it, and he designed an FBI Glock. He designed it with specifications for them. Evan Nappen 30:48 What are the changes to the M model versus the normal standard, maybe even Gen 5 Glock? Teddy Nappen 31:24 One was no front strap finger grooves. You know, the finger grooves. They got rid of those on the Glock, also the. Evan Nappen 31:31 Because then you can fit more hands, you know, because the finger grooves. Like with my hand on a Glock, the finger grooves. I have a big hand, and they cut into one of my fingers. I mean, the finger grooves didn’t fit me well. Teddy Nappen 31:43 Yeah. And the other one was the conventionally rifled barrel crowned. Evan Nappen 31:47 Ah, now let’s talk about that real minute. What’s very interesting is Glocks primarily have hexagonal “rifling”, which is not lands and grooves. So, Glock barrels do not produce ballistics where you can identify which bullet came from what gun, because of the hexagonal rifling. It is ballistically not possible to say with specificity that this gun fired that bullet if it came out of a Glock. But if it has traditional lands and grooves rifling, then it would be ballistically identifiable. It’s interesting that they made that change, and some also believe it adds more accuracy. And there are drop-in barrels you can get that are land and groove for Glocks, of course. But this comes standard that way from Glock. That’s interesting, Teddy. Teddy Nappen 32:41 And the other one was stronger trigger safety pin, which I guess they’re trying to make it so it’s harder to pull. Page – 10 – of 14Evan Nappen 32:47 Yeah, probably litigation enforcement so they can, you know, lessen the lawsuits, right? Teddy Nappen 32:53 And enhance locking block rails, longer recoil spring assembly. Evan Nappen 32:59 Probably to handle more powerful loads. Teddy Nappen 33:01 Yeah, enhanced firing pin safety, ambidextrous slides. Evan Nappen 33:05 You know, I’d give my right arm to be ambidextrous, Teddy. Teddy Nappen 33:08 Oh, I believe you. Evan Nappen 33:10 Yeah, keep going. Teddy Nappen 33:11 Uh, and stronger. Nice. Evan Nappen 33:14 Let the people, let our listening audience get past what I just said. They’re trying to recover. Teddy Nappen 33:18 That’s alright. I’m used to it. You’re, all the dad jokes. Flare magazine well, cut out in the grip to facilitate easy removal. Stock mag, amber glow sites, Safra land als holster, four back straps, external, internal, coated with. Evan Nappen 33:18 So, the back straps can adjust to the different hand size, which is nice, and that’s also on many of the later gens, like the Gen 5s. And also, you can actually make it big and or small and make it fit well. That’s a good thing. Teddy Nappen 33:49 Yeah. I’ll just do one more where I thought was pretty interesting. So, for ICE, the Immigration Customs Enforcement, they actually carry SIG Sauer P229, dark or doc, chambered in 40. Page – 11 – of 14Evan Nappen 34:10 Oh, they’re still using 40 cals. The P229 is a good gun. I like that gun a lot. And then in 40, it also is fairly easy to change that into .357 Sig. I don’t think they’re doing that, but I always like to 229. It’s a nice piece. Teddy Nappen 34:26 Yeah. It’s kind of this interesting back and forth with the agencies. They kind of compete with going with a Glock 19 or the Sig Sauer. Because, like the U.S. Secret Service just did the Sig Sauer. But then they’re thinking of switching to Glock. CIA uses Glock 19 over the Sig Sauer. Evan Nappen 34:44 Well, I’ll tell you, Teddy, some of the police departments, probably about 150 now, are actually going to the Staccato. (https://staccato2011.com/) Oh, the staccato. What a beautiful gun. I have a Staccato. If any of you out there have Staccatos, you know damn well what I’m talking about. They are pretty pricey, but departments that really care about their men and want to give them the best, that is a gun that is definitely a cut above. Those Staccatos are amazing, but there’s a large price tag. And when you’re having to arm a lot of folks, and you have limited budgets, and you want something absolutely reliable that works and is more in budget. I can see why they might not opt for a Staccato. But if you get a chance or if you’ve shot Staccatos, you know what I’m talking about. Teddy Nappen 35:29 Well, if the budget is really tight, they could default to a liberator pistol. Evan Nappen 35:36 Yeah, right. The Liberator pistol, also known as the Woolworth’s gun. A stamp steel single shot .45 ACP that came with cartoon instructions that we made by the 1000s under the World War II cover of making “flare pistol” 45. But it actually was this. It was considered the least expensive handgun ever made. I think it cost the government $1.42 per gun, and it came in a kind of a wax wrap package with about 10 rounds of ammo, single shot, cartoon instructions. The idea was to give it to the insurgents and friendly forces so they would shoot the enemy soldiers in the back and take their good guns. So, those were. But they’re very collectible and very desirable, very historic. The so-called Liberator. It’s gotta be the ultimate Saturday Night Special ever made, and it was made and produced by the U.S. government. Very cool and interesting historic gun. Hey, let me. Thank you, Teddy, for a really interesting topic. Evan Nappen 36:41 And let me just bring some folk’s attention here to, before we do the GOFU, a letter that came from Frank. Frank said, regarding affirmative defense. Thank you very much for your informative podcast. My son-in-law got me listening. He was wondering, because he’s going on a trip to Virginia, and he researched their gun law. And it says State Police page says, my New Jersey PTC would be honored. And their law talks about carrying concealed weapons; exemption; penalty says, if you break it, basically it’s a class one misdemeanor. Then it says, it shall be an affirmative defense regarding a handgun that a person has been issued at a time of the offense, a valid concealed handgun permit. What does affirmative defense mean? Page – 12 – of 14Evan Nappen 37:23 That’s a good question. Let me tell you, if you go to Virginia’s website, and I’m not a Virginia Attorney, but anyone can go to their website, and that’s just what I did. (https://vsp.virginia.gov/services/firearms/reciprocity-and-recognition/) It specifically says that, pursuant to Virginia law, the holder of a valid concealed handgun or concealed weapon permit or license issued by another state may carry a concealed handgun in Virginia provided all the below conditions are met. Number one, the holder of such permit or license is at least 21. The permit or license holder carries a valid photo identification issued by a government agency, such as, you know, a driver’s license or passport, etc, or maybe even the carry permit itself. The holder displays the permit or license, and the government issued photo ID. So, I guess they do want both. Best to be safe and have both. Upon demand by a law enforcement officer. And the permit or license holder has not previously had a Virginia concealed handgun permit revoked. So that’s the criteria. Evan Nappen 38:20 Then if you have that qualifying carry, which your New Jersey carry would qualify, assuming you meet the rest of this criteria, then Frank wants to know what’s an affirmative defense. And that’s an important concept in law. An affirmative defense means it is a defense that you must affirmatively prove first. So, it means that the burden is shifted to you to prove that you have such a license and that you have qualified under the Virginia law with that license. If you can show that, the burden becomes yours to prove that, then you can be lawful in your carry. Evan Nappen 39:01 So, keep in mind, if you’re going to carry reciprocity out of Virginia with New Jersey, and you’ve met that criteria, if you’re ever have to use it or an officer questions it, the burden will be on you to prove that you are within that criteria. That’s an affirmative defense. New Jersey uses affirmative defenses throughout the gun law. It’s an affirmative defense in New Jersey to prove you’re licensed at all anyway. Even just generally carrying in New Jersey, you have to show and produce your license. We have affirmative defense is what self-defense is. Self-defense is an affirmative defense. So, if you use force, either deadly or non-deadly force, and you get charged with a crime, you have the burden of the affirmative defense of asserting that you were justified under the law to use the force or deadly force, that you used. It’s a concept that shifts the burden of proof to the defendant, and it does change the dynamic from what would normally be you’re guilty until proven innocent, to your innocent until proven. Strike that. I just reversed that. You will switch innocent, because I’m so used to New Jersey, folks. You’re innocent until proven guilty. It switches the burden to guilty until proven innocent, in a manner of speaking, because you now have the affirmative defense burden on you first. So, good question, Frank. Thanks for bringing that up. Evan Nappen 40:39 Let’s talk about the favorite segment of the show, at least it’s running neck and neck with Teddy and his Press Checks. And that is the GOFU. GOFUs are Gun Owner, Fuck Ups. And the reason we talk about GOFUs is these are expensive lessons learned by individuals that you get to learn for free. And this GOFU is actually from Breitbart, which is a very cool news site and one of my favorite writers, AWR Hawkins. He has an article regarding a mom suing the school that suspended her son over Dr. Pepper Page – 13 – of 14cans arranged in the shape of a rifle. (https://www.breitbart.com/2nd-amendment/2025/04/23/mom- suing-school-that-suspended-her-son-over-dr-pepper-cans-arranged-in-the-shape-of-a-rifle/) Oh, my God. That’s right, folks. Riley Grunden is suing Missouri’s Mountain View-Birch Tree School District over a suspension of her son for posting a photo. And you can see the picture in the article of Dr. Pepper cans arranged in the shape of a rifle. The son, apparently, allegedly in the article here, took a photo of the cans at home and had the nerve to post it on social media. It was accompanied by a trending audio file entitled AK47 which include a voiceover saying, this is the famous AK47, with over 50 million manufactured in 10 countries. The AK47 is the most popular assault rifle in the world. Evan Nappen 42:13 And it is a bunch of Dr. Pepper cans lined up. Obviously a joke. Obviously it’s not a bona fide even AK, but even so, what if it was. Yet, this caused all kinds of turmoil where he got suspended, and now there’s a lawsuit. So, what’s the GOFU? Folks, beware of social media posts by your children, by yourself, etc. Social media is an area where I frequently see criminal troubles stemming from things that people post. And look, I’m for the First Amendment. It’s a sad commentary that we’re not free to post Dr. Pepper cans that look like rifles. Who cares? But look at the trouble it can cause. Make sure you talk to your kids. Because in New Jersey, you can then see that after getting suspended, the police are going to bring a TERPO (Temporary Extreme Risk Protection Order) for the danger, the immediate danger, and seize guns in the household. We’re going to end up fighting this in court. And then if anything seized is in any way questionable under New Jersey’s insane matrix, you’re going to face those charges. It just escalates beyond belief. Be smart. Yes, be smart, folks Yeah, be smart. Watch out with your kids and even yourself post. Don’t be a GOFU on social media. Evan Nappen 43:38 This is Evan Nappen and Teddy Nappen reminding you that gun laws don’t protect honest citizens from criminals. They protect criminals from honest citizens. Evan Nappen 43:47 Gun Lawyer is a CounterThink Media production. The music used in this broadcast was managed by Cosmo Music, New York, New York. Reach us by emailing [email protected]. The information and opinions in this broadcast do not constitute legal advice. Consult a licensed attorney in your state. Page – 14 – of 14 Downloadable PDF TranscriptGun Lawyer S3 E235_Transcript About The HostEvan Nappen, Esq.Known as “America’s Gun Lawyer,” Evan Nappen is above all a tireless defender of justice. Author of eight bestselling books and countless articles on firearms, knives, and weapons history and the law, a certified Firearms Instructor, and avid weapons collector and historian with a vast collection that spans almost five decades — it’s no wonder he’s become the trusted, go-to expert for local, industry and national media outlets. Regularly called on by radio, television and online news media for his commentary and expertise on breaking news Evan has appeared countless shows including Fox News – Judge Jeanine, CNN – Lou Dobbs, Court TV, Real Talk on WOR, It’s Your Call with Lyn Doyle, Tom Gresham’s Gun Talk, and Cam & Company/NRA News. As a creative arts consultant, he also lends his weapons law and historical expertise to an elite, discerning cadre of movie and television producers and directors, and novelists. He also provides expert testimony and consultations for defense attorneys across America. Email Evan Your Comments and Questions  [email protected] Join Evan’s InnerCircleHere’s your chance to join an elite group of the Savviest gun and knife owners in America.  Membership is totally FREE and Strictly CONFIDENTIAL.  Just enter your email to start receiving insider news, tips, and other valuable membership benefits.   Email (required) *First Name *Select list(s) to subscribe toInnerCircle Membership Yes, I would like to receive emails from Gun Lawyer Podcast. (You can unsubscribe anytime)Constant Contact Use. Please leave this field blank.var ajaxurl = "https://gun.lawyer/wp-admin/admin-ajax.php";