Hello and welcome to episode 24 of the I guess that's why they call it the Elton John podcast podcast. Today's episode is another one of those pinch yourself. Is it really true moments an interview with Elton's art director for his classic era albums David Larkham? I won't gabble too much here I'll drop you straight into the interview.
You'll find me in the middle of an introduction I'm explaining that I love music all the more when I get to hold it in my hands rather than just streaming it. Anyone who loves collecting music particularly vinyl will understand that listening to the songs from an album or random songs on Spotify for that matter can be a bit of a two-dimensional affair and what gives the record's depth and what helps them lodge in your head is the sleeve it's the whole package holding it in your hand and giving it a sniff dare I say it's the textured covers reading the run-out groove the credits the lyrics over and over again and for Elton fans particularly for fans of his classic era albums that experience is a really really rich one and there's one man that we've got to thank for that it's the man that's come on to the podcast today David Larkham you were the art director for all of those albums starting off with empty sky going all the way up to Rock of the Westies in 1975 David welcome to the podcast it's an absolute pleasure to have you here and it's a pleasure to respond how are you doing these days you're back in the UK having lived for some time in LA did you stay in LA in Los Angeles and up the coast in Ventura so I was in California for some 12 years but I've been back here since about oh 1982 now I did come back for what I thought would be a six-month visit in England but I'm still here many years later I do a bit of design work and a bit of illustration work but mostly I'm now a painter these days of portraits and that kind of thing so yeah you I saw that you did the commission for the Keith Haywood book for the first book which was a beautiful thing for Elton John fans and I think there was a poster that came out with the second book wasn't there there was Keith wanted to use the poster really as the book jacket but the publisher went ahead and did his own thing and yes very much did their own thing didn't they there was a book cover that they wouldn't like very much no I can't see what they were going for there it reminds me a little bit as far as being an aberration goes of the Friends album cover which was another thing that happened to your career from externally isn't it yes I believe that Elton and his creative manager Steve Brown said to the film people we have our own art director who would like to do the album cover but the film company said oh no no no we're very good at that kind of thing they just used to do things the whole way leave it to us yes exactly what would you have done do you think David others a very abstract question but did you have some thoughts within the team no no no no once I knew I wasn't involved it's a waste time thinking about yeah you had enough to be worrying about because the albums were coming thick and fast in those days weren't they tell me about it yeah I think listeners of the podcast if they're anything like me are sound based people and they probably aren't graphic designers or people that compile images for publication in the way that you are so I wondered if you could without going into an awful lot of detail I mean because it must be very tedious for you give us a sense of what's involved in the role please generally in those days I worked very closely with Benny Torpen so I would have first sight of all the lyrics involved Bernie it was who would sometimes use a phrase for instance came up with the words tumbleweed connection which suggested the whole train and CPA tinn is Americana old west imagery yes so it's listening to the music studying the lyrics sometimes Elton might have an idea sometimes creative director sometimes people would throw ideas in but usually you wake up and think here this is the way to go yes so it's about holding a load of connections in your address book as well isn't it it's about knowing a lot of people sometimes to a great extent yeah working with familiar people I worked a lot with the photographer Ed Carras who obviously Elton and Bernie and band got to know very well yeah it makes it easier because it there's a establishes a report similarly with the photographer Terry O'Neill who worked on a lot of the album covers yeah he did the rock of the Westies cover didn't he rock of the Westies yeah I was going to ask you about Ed a little bit later on any listener to this podcast that really has listened way too deeply will realize that I'm constantly trying to make Captain Beefheart connections not for any particular good reason but there's a fantastically strong one here isn't there there is a cover of trap master record on trackmaster and worked alongside zapper loads what a great connection that is yes exactly did you meet him for the first time at the troubadour gigs yes properly he did come over Ed Carras come over to England with three dog night who had already recalled some Elton and Bernie songs yes and we just nodded acquaintance in DJM records building in London yes but we sort of remit properly at the troubadour gig and that was the beginning of a great friendship that continues even today what sort of a character was he back then and what sort of a character do you have to be to be one of these photographers in rock and roll for the kind of thing that he was doing a lot of the live photographers but and also it's creative and likes doing album cover setups and so on so you do have to be very organized and quite bossy anyone who knows Ed Carras will know that he's quite bossy but he could take direction which is why on Elton's stuff I could certainly boss him around if and when necessary Ed and I had a rapport that continues nicely that's lovely can I go back a little bit then please so I'm gonna hopefully go a little bit chronologically I don't want to take up too much of your time but really tantalizing is the fact that back in 69 I suppose it would be maybe even late 68 you you were a friend of Steve Browns and you worked with him on another project before he came to DJM no Steve Brown and I grew up as teenagers together then I moved to Liverpool for a while then was back in London so I knew Steve and his family I think his sister was one of my first girlfriends that kind of thing so we knew of each other and we were pals basically I love Lee okay when he needed he phoned me I used to work for the Evening Standard graphic designer he phoned me and he said yeah the couple of unknown songwriters and he needed some photographs so that was the beginning of all of that and I think you've been involved in sleep I've got it written somewhere did you do the Norman Greenbaum album before that's right yeah I don't know if it was before or after all right yeah it might have been after it makes sense for it to be after from what you're describing there yes so you took pictures and I think recently on out in John.com they shared an outtake of one of your photographs from the empty sky and session yes it's been used they have timelines yes the 60s the 70s and there's a couple of shots as the intro for the 60s and one of those shots is mine yes I took a whole role of film we knew what we wanted to do with a sort of sky in the background yes we were all a bit naive and that's what's the album itself yeah I think the the naivety of the image definitely matches the naivety of the music inside and yes and it was immediately almost immediately after that it was a sharp learning curve both musically and album cover wise you got a lot for empty sky you've got a gatefold sleeve textured cover all the lyrics yeah well Steve had a lot of influence so look if we're gonna treat this person with the efference that is due to his talent then we should go big time I'm not to not make anything look cheap you know so although I did get some abuse didn't I think there was a comment that it was I couldn't believe it was going to be as bad as the record design that was in the Captain Fantastic Scraps book that was a review from somewhere or other yeah probably it's not something I've seen I've aged you remember I think anyway I think it's a lovely design it's perfect yeah well I said we're all about now you've said that I said sharp learning curves from there onto the John album yeah just going back very briefly you so you and Bernie and particularly Steve and Elton you spent a lot of time around Steve's house didn't you we did yes you were a bit of a gang I mean that's not like going around roughing up old ladies indeed well so Elton Bernie myself we were like the lost kids from Peter Pan and Steve Brown and his wife would invite us down to their house in the country and weekends you know you get a proper meal every weekend yeah we get a proper meal and we do things like go out for country walks play football play tennis never to be Elton would win we go to the pub we go to fish and chips yeah go to the cinema together that kind of thing and listen to records as well and yes exactly we'd on the Friday yeah go to music land in Soho where we could pick up US imports and those were treasured to take down new records to listen to over a weekend at Steve and Jill's house right sounds like fantastic memories it must be I imagine listening to things like that David Ackles album for the first time must have been a new friend and Leonard Cohen's first album yes distinctly remember us and you can see where the where the image for the empty sky album came from when you're listening to that music you can see why the album ended up sounding and looking like it did yeah I think so yes so for the I'm confused about the album John album because it says photography by Stole Stanford yes this was two people Roger Stole and someone Stanford it was Roger who did the photography but their company was called Stole okay Stuart Epps has gone on record as saying this the best photographer of the day David Bailey was hired yeah Stuart called me a few months ago to say am I right in thinking that David Bailey sure okay no Stuart you are not we did we did do a session with David Bailey yes but it was nothing there that we particularly used I can't I'm so I'm glad he took that incredible image about and for the victim of love album didn't he I think that's a really it's a really great photo of him but it's the best thing about that album by long way you know after our my involvement started to Peter out in the late 70s kind of thing although I did come back when in England I did to ice on fire oh did you oh I'd missed I'd missed that credit I didn't realize yeah yeah so you did actually have some pictures with David Bailey what I'd be lovely to see what but you didn't even particularly use a ball at the time I think we thought they were irrelevant or they were perhaps useful press photos or I can't remember no I can't I know that we did some shots but I can't really remember what they were eventually useful and having not seen a lot around I think he probably kept hold of the copyrights and people thought well maybe if he was asked if shots could be used for to a souvenir programs or merchandise that probably the price was two prices yes for what they were yes so people would say no no one bothered we can't no I could see how that would happen it's a lot of you go involved in the end isn't it yeah yeah but it's a wonderful cover it's not laminated in any way the paper so it hasn't held up very well to the ravages of time the Elton John album was that a very textured board wasn't it yes I think that was may have been a sort of Elton and Steve choice having just seen the American import of Crosby Stills Nash yes which was also a matte textured board so it may have been that Elton said oh that's nice let's try something like that and you've got this really gothic feel to the cover it's like the Randy Newman but it's like Randy Newman with the contrast turned all the way up isn't it yes well the whole mood of the album with Paul Buck Master Strings and so on is very serious mood to the whole thing and hence for me that suggested a serious almost Rembrandt was my inspiration if you know anything of Rembrandt's yeah portraits yes and you can see that in the Elton John album cover yeah and the textured kind of it's come across there I see exactly what you mean yeah and so presumably because that album was planned extensively and recorded at fairly lightning pace would you have been in conversation around that you know when Steve and Paul and Gus and Elton and Bernie were together planning the album were you around in those conversations oh yeah yeah and I would go to Trident recording studio for some of the recording sessions and Gus was quite clever on some of them in that he'd do one take of the strings and many'd say right let's take that again just to see if we can do a better version what it would then do is join marry the two recordings together to make it sound as though it were an orchestra of like 60 people as opposed to 30 people so how so that must have been with Paul conducting it with headphones on so it's to stay in time yeah that's right yeah that's all deal that must have been for him because I imagine that been quite hard because some of these things are very free form in their timings yeah but Buck Master is one of those cool guys who very much on top of his game so in your order was doing yeah he's a bit like an Ed Carifan was quite bossy with it yeah these are formidable characters that you were surrounded by tell me about this you have to kind of up your game in terms of your no it will be like this and you will do that is that part of your character as well sometimes or do you have to play that role no that's part of my character and I think this is why I haven't worked with just Elton I mean I've worked with people like Paul McCartney Brian Ferry Neil Diamond Steve Dan you're not going to do that as a shrinking violet are you no exactly and also the reason that your employed is not just because they respect the work that you're doing but they can get honest replies from you as opposed to say record company people who are generally yes men so it takes strength to say someone like Neil Diamond when he comes up with an idea it takes strength to say well I think that's a load of bollocks really yeah the thing about that Elton John album is that the way it looked and the way it sounded of course but definitely the way it looked helped completely confound the music press in America when they came to see the whole package later on in the year did you get a sense of satisfaction for being part of that bait and switch type thing that went on there yes it wasn't anything conscious on my part you were just doing the right package for the music that was there yes but the effect in the end was it really helped to cement him in the consciousness didn't it absolutely yes yep and also it's your image there on the cover of 171170 to skip out tumbleweed for a moment which I think it's one of the iconic image of Elton live in the three-piece just to him obviously but there's so much energy there in just that one line what an achievement that picture is well the whole thing it was we gave a sort of bootleg kind of feel hence the just sheer black and whiteness of it so that simplicity yeah you wanted to out bootleg the bootleggers really the package was even better than what they were coming up with did you actually do any I mean I'm sure you did do quite a lot of post-production all sorts of images but with that one did you actually get your paintbrush out because the way the outline works is so perfect it's almost too perfect for me no I wouldn't have been clever enough to apply the paintbrush to it so it is what it is unbelievable and you've got I presume hundreds of photographs someone has them of what you took when you went out in August 1970 yeah do you know I'm trying to follow up on this but DJM Records used a photographic lab to process all the black and white stuff and the color stuff and then everything was kept in this labs archives and then the press office at DJM could phone up and say can we have a 10x8 printer blah blah blah etc and then a number of years ago I thought hey I must get back my negatives from this DJM archive because I was self employed then most of the time so they're my copyright and you won't exactly you won't contract it did you won't give it you won't on a retainer with DJM not not until I didn't become an employee of DJM until just around about the beginning of doing the packaging for madmen across the water okay but anyway I then few years ago found out that due to digital imagery etc sky photograph sky photo labs had gone out of business so it would seem that all they did was tippled the negative into a skip outside but I'm still trying to find the the owners of sky photo lab to see if maybe they've archived them put them in our I mean if that's your job and you love imagery which presumably you do you could do such a thing well I mean we were DJM wasn't their only client that's a lot of other similar places and I'm cleaning my face yeah I mean it wasn't just that I did part of the photography is a summer we'd shoot live photography and stuff as Elton that Royal Festival Hall in 1971 Elton at me damn in the south of France and niece in 71 72 that kind of thing yes lots and lots of stuff that if I could get hold of those negatives I'd make a fair bit of money now I'm sure and you deserve it you were there because you know people wanted you there and you were taking pictures in the same way as Edward Bay you know there's no differences there no except that Ed was a professional photographer and I'm more of a graphic designer yes did you come out with Elton when he toured in the UK in this before I know it feels like we're getting stuck here but this is my era so this is where I'm gonna sort of lodge my mind like in the summer of 1970 Crumlin you didn't go to Crumlin did you I didn't go to Crumlin good for you odd gigs what that he was doing around mostly clubs and stuff in and around London did you ever play alongside Nick Drake I've heard someone suggest that he did once quite possibly but it's not something that I went to okay do you remember any particular gigs do you remember any support to actually that yes after the Elton at the troubadour thing there were a few odd gigs that I went to obviously he was becoming quite well known then so there was one where Steve couldn't go along to Bristol, Colston Hall gig so I was Elton's minder that particular day and then there was also a gig at the roundhouse and it was the whole show around Christmas time wasn't it yeah so hanging out with people like Pete Jones and etc backstage was a pleasure it was very much happening at that time wasn't it for Elton he was the big thing yes he must have been very excited it was yeah you were part of that party Bob Stacey, Ray, Steve and you that went over to the States and of course it was it was well it was all those gambling imageries make or break last throw the dice was there a feel of it being like do or die from there may have been for say Elton Bernie the musicians Steve and Ray and perhaps Bob Stacey but for me I went along having just completed before then the artwork for tumbleweed connection I got paid and I said hey I'll pay my own way I'm coming along for the gigs so I don't know what the what's it whether Dick James and Steve James and said to them hey this is the last throw that dies I wasn't aware of any of that office politic kind of thing for me I was just there for a good time and the opportunity to take some photos there's an interview with Ray where he said that the reason Elton didn't go out to Palm Springs which is you'd already met Janice your first wife just a little bit before that hadn't you around about the hotel is that right? Day before yeah and then you all went down to Palm Springs and Elton had a bit of a half and refused to go and Ray said a really interesting thing in an interview and I'm trying to pin Ray down for an interview he's agreed to do it but it's not happened as yet but he said an interesting thing that the reason Elton didn't go was because of his burgeoning sexuality now let me make this clear I'm not a salacious person I'm not always trying to look for the dirt on that that's obviously not what I'm about but I find this comment really fascinating because he could have just got up and gone why would it have been about being gay? I doubt that I think Ray was barking up the wrong tree there because at that stage was not someone who was um yeah I'm sure in his mind he was um did you think he was against people getting girlfriends which you guys clearly were at the time?
No no no no I think it was he was uh I think they did what I remember he was asked if he wanted to go along and he said no and then when we'd gone and spent the day out there and then come back again he was pretty pissed off that he hadn't been included and I think it was just his own decision not to go originally it was one of those having gotten and eating it things isn't it? So afterwards he felt it missed out on something so he took it out on Ray very sad it's a really sad outcome for Ray and it just doesn't look good for it on Elton the way that that was handled one way or another so yeah I mean it was one of those um definite tantrum moments and he does get over those fairly quick did you ever have any tantrums like that playing tennis in 1969? No no I've never had any problems with him myself and if I ever saw a time coming I need to skarp her out and do a fairly quick thing so you've said you were already you'd already you turned some we connection in at that stage which means it was pretty much recorded because you'd have done all of the design for what was inside as well yeah it was recorded and um because of release dates and all that kind of thing yes I had to finish all the artwork um and it's an amazing package in an interview in about March 1970 Elton said we're releasing this album which is the Elton John album with a freaky orchestra that's how he describes it and then he goes on to say that the next album is going to be a double album with band songs and folk songs on it well obviously he's talking about tumble we did you ever hear any conversation about it being a double no you never I don't know what he was talking about it's a great album you've got that it's it's it's like so when it was prepared no one had been to America your imagery that you it's even digby ovens that took the photo itself isn't it down on the on the railway in Sussex a blue bell railway in Sussex yeah that's right if you look closely this you can see the efforts with a daily telegraph and cap yeah but we weren't we weren't going to hide or retouch any of that to make it americana yes yes just it was more the sepia thing making it evocative of that kind of railway yeah um bernie as you know has made no secret in the fact that he grew up with a fantasy of wild west etc etc yeah so some of bernie's details are a bit wrong like the hedgehog for example there's no I don't think they called him them hedgehogs in america do they no no no but again he wasn't hiding it's uh linkage ear roots yeah but it is so lavish that package it's got a 12 page glued in inlay for the lyrics and the and the photographs that and imagery was that much of your drawings or did you or they find found materials some of them found material um copyright free imagery a lot of them yes um a few odds and ends that I came up with but um no it was a pleasure to work on that particular packaging because again um but as Steve Brown fought for the idea of a gatefold and maybe I think that's what um Elton was referring to a double maybe talking about it in a gatefold yes with the booklet but again um none of these impacted on the price did they they were all released at the same single album price pricing was not something I was included in on not even for Captain Fantastic because that one did come out as a double didn't it yeah but all that to an art director I mean he pays no attention to what the record company is working the artist like yeah who's commissioning it and doing what they're asking for yeah the next one was Madman and it is one of the strongest ones because oh it's I love the eggshell blue inside I love the small inlay the way it's where it's pasted in the image on the cover which is the embroidery I think that ended up on a cushion in Elton's house didn't it in the end I had this conversation the other day um the embroidery was done by my first wife Janice um and we gifted that front cover embroidery to Elton and then we did see it as a cushion but then he may have had a copy made because I heard some months ago that he said I have still got the original yeah so maybe the copy ended up as a cushion and I think that's that and bought it in that auction of Elton's uh oh in 88 yeah probably yeah yeah I wouldn't be I think there was a part of me that was slightly disappointed that the actual don't blame me for being I was a young naive child I just thought why can't the whole album actually be embroidered I wanted an embroidered album yes um I believe from Cormac okay that's pretty naive on his part yeah where did the title Madeline I've heard it mentioned that it was in a review of the troubadour gigs the man went across the water title I think you'd have to you're not sure you don't have to ask Bernie where it came from but it was it was held over from the tumbleweed era wasn't it if it recorded around about tumbleweed that sort of originally yeah you might be right there and uh it was probably fairly early on that it became mooted as the album title oh that's right yes and uh having then done a couple of two or three quick trips to California because I went over for like say the beginning of was it the first tour or the second tour and in that era it was very um in Los Angeles Bernie top and I would go out shopping out to shops where they sell second hand faded jeans so it's all that blue jean baby yeah faded jeans patches embroidered jeans and broidered jackets and all that kind of thing and that's kind of what Bernie and I were wearing occasionally had seen Hilton and embroidered jeans and everything so that was the inspiration just putting yourselves on the sleeve double denim yes yes exactly um can I get into something faintly contentious for a moment you can just turn me straight down if you like Bernie's and I don't want to get into Bernie's private life at all but Bernie has said that the song tiny dancer wasn't about Maxine well I'll I will refute that yes and I would say that to Bernie's face I would say Bernie stopped trying to change history I don't see what the point is what's the point well he refers now to Maxine as she who should not be named so there's there's no level lost there and I think the process of uh he will say that it was dedicated to her but a few years ago actually argued this point with him and he said no no it wasn't about it it was just dedicated to her and I said well then for the next three or four years after that every evening when Elton announced and here's a song about Bernie's wife that's when you should have told yeah that was the time to put your hand up and say well hang on a minute I like this is my autistic license it's about any particular LA lady yeah so personally I can say this truthfully I think he's trying to change history and is now been saying it so much over the last few years it's almost I think he's got a stage where he actually believes that yes it must have been a really special song for you and your first wife as well in a way just a certain extent really but it will I mean we know it's about Maxine yeah so but what a moment to capture indeed yeah that was quite an era actually it was quite exciting all that early 70s time I love the way you depict yourself inside in fact I love all of that totally bananas victoriana in the middle of madmen but you're the the nude baby sat on on a massive broken egg that's so funny yeah these I go to a portobello market in London on saturday mornings where there's a lot of antique stalls and I like to collect Victorian photographs and stuff like that so it's just a matter of um trying to make use of some my collection yes and apply it to the packaging does Steve Brown like to be did he like his depiction as a policeman comedy placement he didn't object at and Steve was very much he was one of those that I was telling you about that he could tell Elton and Bernie that you know don't do this do this you know he's someone whose word was respected so if Steve didn't like it he would say so that's what Elton and Bernie respected him for yes did you go back very briefly did you go to the i-the-life festival in 69 I did but not with them oh so I went with my brother as a so I was there but then so were many thousands of others yes I think I only learned that they were there at the same time once I got into the office next week apparently the sound was a bit diabolical out there it's possible but then it's also possible that many of us have had perhaps a side of too many that day yes you're missing all the things you're supposed to say yeah I was there I don't quite remember the details well the the whole atmosphere is what it was all about really it was the crack of the thing yeah as opposed to uh the sound might have been swirling around too in the wind a bit but in the early days of those big festivals they hadn't quite mastered the sound systems no they they grew very big didn't they but they didn't I don't think the speakers really existed in the way that they do these days not a no I mean it's all state of the art these days so you you used or at this point for honky-shato it says sleeve design in a sleeve photography by Mike Ross with thanks to David Larkham you had a bit of a less of a hand in honky-shato yes um Mike and I were at art school together and we're still friends too and Mike followed me into newspaper graphics business and then when I moved to the states from DJM records he became DJM art director so he was a man on the ground essentially in London yes now what we did Ed Carif and I in Los Angeles I came up with you I you have to remember the original first release of the honky-shato packaging which had an extra flap at the right hand edge of the front and it tucked around like an envelope it had a flap over the top yeah it was Steve Brandon Mike Ross at tenorine so I sent a mark up of a rough idea I don't think it had a title at the time and it had a one of Ed's photographs yeah but it wasn't that from the troubadour around that time yeah and then printed it onto a canvas type of paper yes I stuck cut out the canvas paper and I put it on a bit of cardboard which had a flap that went over to the back like a envelope and tucked in so my contribution was the cardboard idea having a flap and also perhaps featuring that photograph with a canvas finish have you seen the reissues of your sleeves have you as anyone sent you any of them um not in recent years no well because there's been a reissue campaign on vinyl over the last two years or so and yeah your work is heavily featured and I was so heavily disappointed in the honky-shato one because it doesn't have the pasted photograph and it doesn't have the buckle which I was so sad about but I can confirm if you want to pick one up that you want to just revel in the the man went across the water one is absolutely beautiful and unrecognizable from the original in a good way it's exactly the same and it's wonderful and what I can do is I still keep in contact with the office there and yes I I guess if I contacted I would yeah they would yes I mean there are people there who do remember the from those early days although mostly these days it's younger management yeah it's moved on but I think they well I think there could be a little bit more respect shown for the for the past and the way they handle it but I think this reissue campaign shows that they are willing and that they're trying to do the do some get to pay the right level of respect to the material that as it came out back in the day but I do get I do get yeah I get on the phone I'd get on the phone because I'm right now yeah do it um I'm gonna go through a couple of other bits obviously we've got I'm not going to talk in length about goodbye to the road because you've done all of that in talking to I know I've missed out don't shoot me um you've done all of that talking to the guys from uh what are the the album cover Hall of Fame and there's so much detail there did you ever actually watched the band record at the at the chateau for any of those three albums there you never went down did you always in LA Los Angeles based yeah um Mike Ross being London based I did go over to to France for the hunky chateau kind of that era yes goodbye yellow brocrot I think I went to in that interview you mentioned yes it was going to be recorded in Kingston Jamaica yeah you went to Jamaica and hung around with the rest of them yes and that's where I got all the lyrics and had played me all the songs and I kind of think yeah the album had no title at that stage what a wonderful that must be wonderful to have a little um so low yes how amazing was that moderately amazing yeah but there weren't any recordings taken there like he could have put together some demos if someone had just stuck a tape recorder on we'd have some little early piano demos but things like that didn't happen there was only an else head wasn't it um it was at the time yes I think the studio lacked technical things so Gus was reluctant to do anything really yeah it does sound like a frustrating time did you enjoy it out there you said that basically everyone kept themselves to themselves during the day so there wasn't a lot of money on and then we all grouped together for a um a group dinner yeah on the uh surrender in the evenings there was a period when uh you were considering using fine art I've seen the picture of that portrait of Elton on the cover Brian Organ Brian Organ Brian Organ yes in fact there was probably a painting that Elton commissioned and it was probably Elton saying I'd like to use this for the album cover and then Steve Brian saying no you can't it's totally inappropriate so then Steve gets the word I think I think that's what happened there were a couple of other suggested titles one was Vodka and Tonics and another one was I think something along the line of talking movies moving pictures I wonder if you were ever given either of those to come up to brainstorm ideas for you didn't know I mean those were those were London discussions whereas Mike Ross and I were in Los Angeles doing all the drawings for the triple panel center spread is there another album that's on a triple panel center spread up sometimes do you mean by another artist yeah another artist it's entirely possible but you weren't aware either I was unaware of it it's quite a novel thing it was and again it would have been Steve Brown fighting for hey let's do something really different yes I don't make it three panels instead of a gatefold yeah and uh I mean just didn't lavishness of all of these productions don't shoot me as another extremely lavish one where you've taken the title and it sent you thinking of Trufo didn't it? I did yes you're a fan of that new wave exactly and in fact even say a year ago I went back to National Film Theater we're doing a series on Jean-Luc Godot who is one of my heroes from that new wave era in France so yes don't shoot me immediately suggesting that don't shoot the piano player hence the cinema exterior yes which we set up in um Universal's Film What?
And you had to design the ephemera to go on there as well like the poster and so on yeah that's a I hadn't painted that poster that's in the foyer part there so mostly the exterior part was at Carra for myself um being MCA Records as Universal it was easy enough to get cooperation to do it on the film studio lot yes you didn't have to go on a massive record and then um Mike Ross when he went back to London uh did most of the booklet interior yeah it's wonderful I love the pictures on the booklet as well that that picture of Elton covering his faces so I can't yeah it's just it's perfect yes yes it's wonderful um Mike is a wonderful designer with a great creative mind so it must be nice to be able to hand some of these jobs over to people that you really trusted we were a great team we in fact we've been working together last year on some of the stuff we did in the 1980s like say we did a billboard on Sunset Boulevard for Elton at the Hollywood Bowl and yes we had to recreate all that artwork which I imagine is for merchandise during his farewell yellow brick road tour yes indeed there was another massive billboard that I've seen reproduced recently advertising caribou with just the most enormous image of Elton in the caribou get up yes that was one of mine that was yours as well how weird is it to see your stuff blown up 300 times life size modularly weird but then it was all part and parcel of the experience yes you'd go along to the billboard once it was up and have your photographs taken on the sidewalk in front of it caribou's much more basic package it's not gatefold although it does obviously have a full color record sleeve inside doesn't it but it's a bit more back to basics if you know what I mean was that always going to be to use a strong edge photo on the cover was there ever ever going to be more of a concept we knew the packaging was going to be simpler because you know we'd had a lot of been given a lot of leeway with extravagance and packaging there's going to be a simple one there wasn't a title though it was me who wanted the title caribou and I painted that backdrop yes based on the style of an American artist Maxfield Parrish okay it being mountains and trees and lakes is that what did you ever go out to caribou oh many many times yes and in fact is it caribou no it's Elton's first greatest hits if you remember with a terraoneal shot of classic image yes on the inner sleeve of that has the credits and then photographs by me a couple of bernie and a couple of the band all it caribou okay with a horse and the band in the fir trees and mountain streams setting so yeah I'd go to caribou quite a lot there was it was a thin air up there wasn't it yeah you noticed it if you wanted to run around a bit yeah you were impancing in fact they provided oxygen tanks in the recording studios in case anyone wanted to you know take a big breath I think there was more of an affectation on the part of the studio yeah it's it's time to talk about counting fantastic I think which it took a long time to come out didn't it was recorded in summer of 74 and that's right yeah almost a year before it actually hit the shelves when do you reckon you were you working on the package way after the point it was recorded then or was there was there ever lots of sort of deadlines that came and went in that time or did you always know that you had a fairly long lead time on it I think we always kind of knew a longest lead time we discussed various things I think Elton and Bernie went Chicago until I flew to Chicago for initial discussions and then I think came the germ of an idea of involving Alan Aldrich so that was organized with Bernie and John Reed in London but Bernie and I worked very closely together on all the rest of it the memorabilia the booklets and all that kind of thing yes what package it is it is I can imagine it building and then in the end you just say oh can we put a poster in there as well just to you know just for the hell of it just for the final insult for the record company why not exactly did Bernie work with Alan to get the imagery that he wanted on the cover as well you'd have to ask Bernie that unfortunately Alan isn't with us anymore he and I became great pals because he moved over to Los Angeles so we go and play pool quite a lot and that kind of thing he released a book of his that I've read and he talks about the post Captain Fantastic Period where he was put on a retainer I think with maybe Rocket not sure and they were going to be coming out with the cartoon that's right yeah the there was a test of an animated Captain Fantastic about say three or four minutes worth of animated movie and we did we did try it out and go show it in a little studio cinema it was to me it was very impressive but I think I do remember that Jackson Brown came along with his young son and during the showing the his young son ran out of the room crying oh and Jackson said well there's your reviews oh oh dear no I'm sure that's not how I think I'm budgetary constraints in the time that would have been involved in pre-digital animation yes especially not being part of a studio that's doing that has the experience of doing that yes exactly it's very difficult to replicate that process so did you suggest Alan was that someone else do you think I think that's a meeting of minds that could be an Elton Bernie John Reed myself one can't remember all the details of these conversations that went on in say Chicago or whatever I think the motivating Bernie was the main motivator of what is basically an autobiographical album so it was more likely to be Bernie and John Reed in that instance in London it's a wonderful moment that they they got all of that if ever together for the scraps book Elton's diary but were you involved in scanning the diary for example absolutely yes so you've seen all the other pages that couldn't be included because they were too dull they were absolutely too dull yes I love that the day that Lady Samantha came out he watched two films one which was good and Lady in cement lousy I love that so it's so much pros sake detail there yes exactly you get duffed up in one of them yeah that's it yeah no which is a sort of chronological burning and I put together that whole center spread photographs yes of all the bits of memorabilia photographs sheet music Elton's old passport Tom membership fish and chips yeah fish and chips which we got in Santa Monica how that must have been an effort no no at the old King's Head which is a pub in Santa Monica a pub and an official chip shop is that wrong is that wrong by Brit very very Brits and also all the like air crews from Virginia always British Airways they all stay in Santa Monica post fright so you'll find you know it's the whole British bear dartboards all right so this is where you go I've got a they've got a barbillia to table I don't feel I'm at home there's a barbillia to table personally I didn't see one last time I was there but it certainly darks yeah but there are any concerns about the the naked lady the bird lady on the rear of the cover did anyone from the record label give that a glaring eye a BDI no one ever said anything about it to me I'm sure it made a few American record company yeah I wonder if some labels were carefully positioned exactly exactly you did you commissioned from Alan imagery for dogs in the kitchen alongside all the were they all and they weren't were they some of them had Alan's drawings and some had some other photographs in some cases didn't they and we're coming from now yes any drawings were Alan yes dogs in the kitchen was one of them was that ever a song was that always a bit of a left field skewy thing to mess with people's minds it was one of Ernie's lyrics for possible inclusion but I think obviously it fell by the wayside and wasn't included possibly because of the limits of the number of songs you could push for the record. It's a long record in itself isn't it it's one of the longer ones from that the longer sides from that era I believe you're probably right yeah I think it's hedging towards 45 minutes dalting and then we go on to Rock of the West is another caribou recording a real back to basics cover another simple in a fairly in simple in Terry only took this one didn't he he did yeah and that's another instance where I was there at caribou in Terry's shoulder saying yeah let's do this let's do that there's another classic picture from that role where I think it's from there where a little bird comes down and drinks from Elton's cup or is it a cat is it a cat yes you might be right yes yes you're right I think it was one of the cats hopped up on the table yeah started to help himself to Elton's milk and I love that image it's a good strong image I would have gone with that person I mean I find these close-up pictures of Elton's face it's a little bit disturbing at times I'd rather something more abstract personally but I know that pictures of artists sell records don't they well yes and Elton if you know of him is someone who hates having his photograph taken away yes I'm one of those people as well I'm going exactly the same one away is coming from then again I'm not a multi-million selling record recording artist yes it's a bit of a problem for him it's not so much of an issue for me I'd just say no I'd rather not he doesn't get that option does he and I can say no publicity no but he is there a general equation that the artists pictures on on the sleeves tend to sell more records is that generally the case um do you know it's possible I don't know there's probably been research on it um I would think it makes logical sense yes yeah were you involved in blue moves um not really other than production side it was David Costa who used to assist myself and Mike Ross at different stages he was known as the the typesetting man around the goodbye a little bit rodeo over there you think he was involved in fonts and stuff yes exactly I had left the center spread design for goodbye yellow but corroded a triple panel thing with trace layouts of where the songs should go but then I had to rush back from London to Los Angeles so the rest was left with Steve Brown and for David Costa to do the types of uh titles for the songs and so on and he ended up working with um queen didn't he uh quite probably yes queen David went on to become a star in his own right yes with George Harrison and the traveling world breeze and all that kind of crowd yeah so you you you started another star was it yes and he ended up being so yeah he worked without quite extensive because he owned the owns he invented where for art didn't he that's his company that's right yeah that's his company yeah he's retired now though how is he what what David what's your favorite you have a favorite child do you have a favorite of all the sleeves that you're involved in you do feel you're allowed to say that it depends on the era really it used to be tumbled it was a favorite then I think goodbye yellow brick road then I think that's fantastic but then you look back and you think everything was right for the time you know a good job was done on like to think good job was done they did uh they did the slot for each particular albums yeah you did you did each of them justice along with the team did your role was a good yes it was a good good team well was there a sleeve idea that never came to be ever do you remember anything that was like yes we're gonna do it like this and then for some one reason or another because the title changed or the scope changed yeah caribou I think the inner sleeve you know I'm just working off memory here but one side had a big black and white photograph of Elton with um a signature and a carafe and I tinted the lenses to the pink yes of his actual spectacles and when Elton saw that rather than terrible he wanted to call the album old pink eyes is back oh okay yeah that's where that came from is it yes and again I think he was floated down on that one he's used it here and there hasn't any end I think there's a few bootlegs with that title probably yes um so that's why that shot became the inner sleeve I like I've said to you I love these objects I've got a pile of them next to me here because I've been looking through them all morning they just without without it's just an instantaneous thought the second I see madman all of the contents of it just become alive in my head and it's the same for all of these records in a way and I don't want to be one of those anti-modern day people but in a way that it isn't the case for CDs and it definitely isn't the case for recorded mp3s I mean I don't want to be that old man that just complains but it feels like something's gone and nor do I but I treasure that era when 12 inch vinyl sleeves ruled the world yeah it felt you had so much more space to be creative and make an impact with but obviously when CD era came in it's a new challenge to do an impactful image in a more confined space yes yes it's a different task it's still an artistic endeavor isn't it but it's not it's not quite as it's like working in miniature rather than doing the system or not exactly the system chapel but you know what I mean yes exactly I know exactly what you mean it's a different job did you did you get involved in transferring any of the designs over into cassette or CD in those different ways I just they did a repackaged of goodbye yellow brick road yeah I think it was called the 30th anniversary deluxe edition so you what you helped them transfer that into the booklet format yes exactly in fact I was in charge of all the packaging there no I think MCA records universal in the States the art director there wanted to do the repackaging and then Elton said no I want David Larkham so that was that that's nice of him just something about the troubadour do you have any I mean we're going back nearly 50 years but do you do you can you feel any of the energy of that room do you remember what that was like and were you surprised about how it happened and how he was taken um to I became more aware of it the next day after the opening night and I was asked this similar question recently and the answer is the same when you're taking photographs live your attention is under percent on the taking of photographs and the performers yes the visual aspect of it but I must say on that particular night I could also feel the intense reaction from the crowd to the extent that only 95 percent of my attention was on taking photographs and I became increasingly aware of how gobsmacked and how surprised in a pleasant way the crowd were and it got more and more exciting to the extent that you could almost feel the hairs raise up on the on the back of your neck kind of excitement yeah and you could feel Elton responding to what was going on in the room as well exactly yes but at that stage I then had to sort of be myself a virtual snack and concentrate on the photographs and you're still painting these days that's what you're spending most of your time doing I do yes some of it for my own interest and commission portraits I do illustration I do illustrations I still would do the odd album cover or CD cover if you ask me nicely and it was nice last year for both my cross and myself to be involved in refurbishing a lot of the 70s imagery for coming out well tour to merchandise and bits and pieces yeah it's been nice to still be involved I'm glad to hear that you're still being remembered by Elton's managerial team yes I'm glad yeah I'm very good thank you I'm going to say I'm going to draw it to a close and say thank you very much David for speaking to me thank you it hasn't been a burden it's been a pleasure talking to you and you've asked some very nice and very interesting questions oh yeah I've enjoyed I've enjoyed the chat thank you very much so there's the interview what a set of experiences David has had with Elton with Bernie and the other members of the team going back over the years thank you to him for sharing them and for doing so so generously with the podcast I hope you've enjoyed the episode you now have my permission to go and get your copies of these classic era records out and spin them on the turntable and give the sleeves the extra special bit of attention they deserve if you've got any comments if you've got questions ideas please drop me a line on eltonpodcast at gmail.com where you can come via the Facebook group please take some time out to do me a review on iTunes or wherever you might think of doing a review that sort of thing is really helpful it helps the podcast to find its listeners for once I'm not going to leave you with a track just a pointer to head over to the Elton John channel on YouTube they've just uploaded in the last couple of days a video of Elton D and Nigel playing madman across the water on BBC TV in 1971 sounds great the videos crystal clear I'd like to say that it bodes well that they're remembering things like this on the official channel maybe if it gets enough listens they might put some more stuff like this up you never know have a listen and thumb it up do whatever you need to do to get their attention hopefully they'll do some more things like this thanks bye