Episode 256: Thomas Karagianes & Jonathan Romano on crowd-sourcing RNA research with Eterna

Guest Thomas Karagianes | Jonathan Romano Panelist Richard Littauer Show Notes In this episode, host Richard Littauer discusses the journey and impact of Eterna with developers Jonathan Romano and Thomas Karagianes. The conversation revolves around Eterna's role in RNA research through user-contributed puzzle solutions, emphasizing community engagement and educational outreach. Topics include the integration of hybrid intelligence, where human intuition complements AI in scientific discovery, and the significance of explainable AI in motivating player participation. The episode also touches on the ethical considerations in collaborating with for-profit entities, the development of accessible COVID vaccines, and low-cost tuberculosis diagnostics. Hit download now to hear more! [00:01:24] Jonathan describes Eterna, a platform where players solve puzzles to contribute to RNA research. [00:02:12] Thomas explains that Eterna focuses on RNA complexity and its importance in modern science, like mRNA vaccines and how Eterna engages players in folding RNA sequences and testing them in labs. [00:04:36] Richard asks if the project is open source and Jonathan says its partially open source and explains the technical limitations that prevent full openness. [00:05:26] We learn about Eterna’s community with around 100,000 total players, and a core group of about 30-40 who regularly engage in scientific challenges. [00:07:31] Thomas discusses ongoing efforts to make the game more accessible and increase community engagement through educational outreach and simplifying the tutorial system, and Eterna is used in classrooms as a teaching tool. [00:09:47] Jonathan explains how some Eterna players become code contributors, staff members, and even lead authors on academic papers. [00:13:32] We hear about the funding of the community. [00:15:56] Thomas discusses how Eterna integrates AI to assist players but stresses the importance of human intuition in tackling unique challenges and Jonathan explains how Eterna uses hybrid intelligence, combining AI and human input for better research outcomes. He highlights how Eterna’s community has contributed to important research, including COVID-19 vaccine development and tuberculosis diagnostics. [00:22:29] Thomas shares that Eterna attracts players who enjoy breaking the model or exploring boundaries, making the game engaging and motivating for them. [00:27:48] Jonathan and Thomas discuss the ethical considerations of partnerships, especially with for-profit companies, and the need to engage the community in decision-making processes. [00:31:41] Jonathan shares how you can contribute to Eterna and how to join the developer community on GitHub. Quotes [00:10:10] “Minimally, whenever there is a scientific publication that comes out of Eterna from players contributions, there is a consortium author on the paper. That will include everyone who has submitted a solution.” [00:14:21] “There’s definitely this pattern - and you can even see it in the code- where open source code passes from grad student to grad student.” [00:19:14] “Hybrid intelligence is an underused buzzword.” Spotlight [00:33:16] Richard’s spotlight is The Internet Archive. [00:34:23] Jonathan’s spotlight is txircd, a modular IRC daemon written in Python. [00:35:32] Thomas’s spotlight is Bioconda. Links SustainOSS [email protected] [email protected] SustainOSS Discourse SustainOSS Mastodon SustainOSS LinkedIn Open Collective-SustainOSS (Contribute) Richard Littauer Socials Thomas Karagianes LinkedIn Jonathan Romano Website Jonathan Romano LinkedIn Eterna Eterna Project Information Eterna OpenVaccine Eterna OpenTB Eterna OpenKnot Eternagame-GitHub Foldit RNA Hybrid Intelligence (Springer Link article) Mapping Citizen Science through the Lens of Human-Centered AI (Human Computation article) Practical recommendations from a multi-perspective needs and challenges assessment of citizen science games (PLOS ONE article) Mountains Beyond Mountains by Tracy Kidder Internet Archive txircd Bioconda Reamde by Neal Stephenson Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guests: Jonathan Romano and Thomas Karagianes.