Episode 26. What working in fashion teaches you, with Evonne Sturm

This week, I’m delighted to share this interview with Evonne Sturm! She’s a fashion-industry veteran who really caught my eye through her beautiful weaving of industry knowledge with her personal narrative. We chat all about how working in fashion has taught her about clothing, how she finds her signature eyewear, and more! Make sure to subscribe so you’re notified when upcoming episodes with Irene Kim (김애린), and Anna Newton drop! Can’t wait. Maureen: You’re listening to Intuitive Style, where we believe that everyone has style. I’m Maureen Welton. In conversation with fantastic guests, we explore how to tap into our style intuition so that we can dress authentically and live fully. Today’s guest is Evonne Sturm, fashion industry veteran. And her Substack, Musings of a Merchandiser, is a fun glimpse into the fashion machine, where she integrates personal narrative into deep dives on industry trends, both consumer-led and brand-led. Evonne, welcome to the show.Evonne: Thanks for having me, Maureen. I’m really excited to be here.Maureen: I’m excited to talk. You know, whenever I have a guest that’s in industry—that’s not my experience whatsoever—I really like to start out talking about how working in fashion has impacted your personal style and the way you dress. Understanding, of course, that you don’t necessarily have a frame of reference for what it might be like otherwise. But I’m curious if you can think of any memorable moments where working in fashion really impacted your taste or the way that you were dressing.Evonne: Sure, it’s actually a great question to start. So I would say working in fashion inevitably changes just how you see clothing in general. You really start to notice construction before color, fabrication before fit. And over time, I’ve really kind of stopped chasing trends and started just really chasing a feeling. I know silhouettes that make me feel really pulled together and which ones make me feel like I’m playing dress up.I would say probably the most memorable moment happened pretty early in my career back at Macy’s—not to age myself, but over 15 years ago—when I got a first real look kind of behind the curtain. How every decision from fabric quality to button to style to hem finish really came with a cost implication and a trade-off. It’s incredibly mind-blowing when you realize how much goes into the make of a single garment. And then once you’ve seen that, you cannot unsee it, especially as a merchandiser. I think about it literally 24 hours a day, whether I’m at work or whether I’m shopping personally.Maureen: Yeah. So, I mean, as a recovering perfectionist, I see so much detail in every purchase that I make. You know, I was just looking at some shirts and I was like, some of these buttons are white on navy. And then the plum version has plum-colored buttons and I much prefer that. Like, how do you handle that level of detail that you must see when you’re shopping? Does it ever get in the way or do you feel like it’s an asset?Evonne: It’s both an asset and it always gets in the way. Yeah, like I said, it’s just inevitable. I’m a curious person by nature too, and I just can never turn it off. And sometimes I have to realize, okay, you came out not for work, you came out for yourself. So once I’m able to switch that mindset off—and it almost rarely happens—sometimes it comes back full force when I look at the price tag on the garment. Like, really? And then I look at where the garment’s made. I’m like, really? It just kind of constantly snowballs.Maureen: I want to know a little bit more about what you mean. So when you see the price tag, does that raise your standards, lower your standards?Evonne: That’s a really interesting question. It honestly just kind of depends on the overall brand itself and your perceived value of it, and then kind of how it feels when you’re touching it, when you’re putting it on your body. So it really depends.It’s a funny thing I think about, especially when I shop luxury items, because knowing how much the markup is on those things will blow your mind. But then you’ve got to take into consideration the craftsmanship and where it’s made. If you’re looking at a luxury handbag, the type of leather—all of those details come into play constantly.Maureen: Yeah, yeah. What about working at—have you ever worked in office? Does the experience of dressing for a fashion office culture change how you might dress?Evonne: Yes and no. I mean, I’ve been going into an office since the dawn of time, since the start of my career. And it definitely has fluctuated—how much I’m in office versus where we’ve all netted out after COVID. But early on in my career, the office etiquette or style has definitely evolved. Back when I worked at Macy’s, we were not allowed to wear denim—only on Fridays.So, you know, you constantly had to be polished and presentable and never relaxed or in kind of almost like your weekend apparel. But since then, I mean, even just thinking about that over time, it seems wild that you were not allowed to wear jeans to the office other than Fridays. Now I think I wear jeans probably constantly. But there’s a way to dress them up and evolve them. So whether you’re putting them with a nice pair of heels or a nice pair of loafers, or you’re completely disregarding the jean in general and wearing a nice pair of pleated trousers—fashion has definitely evolved in the workplace. And I think there are so many brands now that take a new spin on it versus wearing the mundane, tried-and-true suit.Maureen: Yeah, I totally forgot that when I first started working it was the same—like no jeans, or if you could wear jeans they had to be black. It was like a whole thing. And now it’s not even remotely on my mind. That’s so funny. Cool.Evonne: Yeah. And even as I think—MACs at Bloomingdale’s back in the day, and I don’t know if this is still the case—but you always had to wear black on a market appointment if you were going anywhere. They almost had a set signature uniform. I’d be curious if any Bloomingdale’s people are out there in the universe—I’d love to know if the dress code has evolved or not.Maureen: Yeah. Like a Sephora employee.Evonne: Totally. Totally. Totally.Maureen: One of the fun things about your newsletter in particular is the way you weave your personal narrative in with your industry expertise. For example, you had a really nice piece about eyewear—which of course you’re wearing a fabulous pair today—which you have a personal connection to beyond the trends. So I’d love to hear more about your personal connection to eyewear and how this became your signature.Evonne: Totally. I have worn glasses since the third grade, so they’ve been part of me for a very, very, very long time. And my eyesight, believe it or not, has only gotten worse over time, which has, I think, really deepened my love for eyewear dramatically. It’s the one accessory that I truly need. And maybe that’s why I care about it so much.It wasn’t until after college, when I started working and spending most of my day at a computer, that I thought about eyewear differently. It’s not just a necessity, but it’s really, as you said, a form of self-expression. Over time, my glasses definitely evolved into what I call my visual signature. I think of them the same way somebody would think of their favorite lipstick or their favorite jacket. They really anchor my look and they frame not only how I see the world—both literally and figuratively.Evonne: I would say probably the biggest influence when it comes to eyewear is my deep, deep, deep love for Iris Apfel and her oversized signature frames. As they say, the bigger the frame, the closer to God, maybe. But with my small features, I really love the playfulness of an exaggerated shape.Evonne: There was a place in New York that I would go to on the regular for my glasses. It’s where these are from—it’s from a brand called SEE Eyewear. I would come in every year or two because I needed a new prescription since my eyes got worse. The manager noticed that. We began to have a rapport, and I’d come in and he’d tell his sales associates, “Do not give her anything that isn’t oversized. She will just not touch it.” So they always knew to put aside the big, big frames for me because that’s always what I ended up buying. And I really think that because I’m short in size, the oversized frames not only amplify my voice, but they also help amplify my personality on a whole other level.Maureen: That’s really cool. I love that perspective on it because there are so many different ways that we can think about our body and proportion. Sometimes there can be this idea that you want to match your proportions. But I love the idea of playing with—well, one, there’s no right or wrong answer, right? It’s all about personal preference. But I love the intentionality of “big because I’m small.” I think that’s really fun. And yeah, Iris is such an icon. What a legend. R.I.P.And then when you are picking—so you know you want a bigger pair—how do you know when a pair is the right one for you?Evonne: I don’t know. There’s just something that clicks. I can’t describe it. It’s like when you put on a pair of jeans and you’re like, oh man, everything about them fits me like a glove. It’s the same thing with eyewear.I think in the past I used to gravitate toward bold color and maybe a little bit of a pattern. And I’ve tried to veer away from that more recently. I’ve really tried to play up my hair color and accentuate my eye color. I used to have a pair of really dark blue frames and I loved them, but they were such a contrast to my pale skin that it was actually too much. The over-exaggerated frame against my pale skin was not a good combo. So now I find myself gravitating toward rich browns and tortoiseshell because I think it helps frame my face even better with the coloring of my skin tone and my eyes.Maureen: Yeah. No, I love that. I think that’s really fun. And also, you know, I always like to balance this idea of the analytical side with the intuitive side. Not that I really think they’re opposites, but I do think the word intentionality really speaks to the fact that we can have an idea of what we want going in and we can make an intentional choice to be like, “Yeah, the blue—I had enough experience with the blue and that particular shape on me to know that that doesn’t feel right anymore.”It’s like you’re using experience to build your intuition versus just making an impulsive decision. It’s something that you have data on and you’re like, “Oh, well, that worked for a while,” or “I tried it out and now I want to do something different.” And that’s what helps us build that intuition—creating that data, making that model for ourselves about what does and doesn’t feel good, I think.Evonne: Absolutely. And even to circle back to the first point about seeing behind the curtain and knowing how much things cost—I think one push and pull I definitely have with eyewear is the cost of it. I constantly have to remind myself that the cost per wear—even if the frame is expensive, and then I’ve got my lenses because I’m blind, which are even more expensive, and I like the bigger frame—so it’s a mashup of making sure the frame can hold the denseness of the lens, which inevitably causes the overall package to be more expensive.It’s this push and pull. I’m like, “Oh, I really like the frame. It looks so good on my face,” but then the price tag—oh. However, I constantly have to remind myself that the cost per wear will literally pay for itself because I put them on the minute I get up in the morning to look at my phone, and I take them off literally the minute before I wash my face and go to bed. So if you think about the amount of hours in the day that I spend wearing them—who cares, really? I have to take off the sticker shock and settle in with the fact that I’m going to wear them 24/7, so it doesn’t matter.Maureen: Well, this is totally anecdotal, but I have this feeling that when I was younger, glasses weren’t cool. But now glasses come in and out of being stylish just in general. Do you feel that that’s true? Have you experienced that?Evonne: Absolutely. In the third grade, when I found out I had to get glasses, I bawled my eyes out. I was so deeply upset because I was afraid I was going to get made fun of and people were going to call me four eyes. The amount of nicknames that came up in my head—people judging me for having to wear glasses.Because to your point, so many people now wear them, right? Back then it was almost taboo. You need them because you can’t do your work or you can’t see correctly—you’re impaired, literally. So it was constantly something I thought about growing up. But now, I don’t know—it’s part of my style. I’ve just fully leaned into it. And I love now that there’s so much variety in the market.When I was younger, we went to the same eyeglass place. Because I was a kid and needed glasses, the amount of options was so limiting. I had maybe one or two choices to pick from, which I wasn’t excited about because the options were so narrow. That fed into the whole narrative of having to wear glasses. But now the options are endless—which is also a good thing and a bad thing, right? Because you have so much choice. But that’s what really makes it fun. You can get them from anywhere.Maureen: You set up the perfect segue for the next question, which is how you decide what to buy or where—and how do you decide what not to buy or where? And this question was inherently more interesting for you anyway as a merchandiser. As we’ve talked about, you have all this information. But yeah, with all the options out there for what to buy and where, how do you decide? I personally find it overwhelming.Evonne: It is overwhelming. You’re not alone. It’s even overwhelming for myself. But when I think about what I’m deciding to buy, it’s kind of like my earlier thought about glasses and cost per wear. It’s really about longevity and how many ways I can truly wear something. That’s what’s going to earn its keep in my closet. It’s not really about minimalism, but more about mindfulness in general.The amount of times I spend hemming and hawing and having 80 tabs open before I decide whether I want to pull the trigger on something—it literally drives my husband insane. But I like to think of it as part of my Virgo-minded thought process. I’m not chasing quantity or even novelty. I’m really chasing that mix of comfort, quality, and clarity.And then on the opposite side—what I decide not to buy—I’m very petite in frame. So the biggest driver for me is ensuring that the item really isn’t wearing me nine times out of ten.Maureen: Yeah. Okay, well, using that analytical and feeling brain, how do you distinguish that? I can speak to this—I struggle with this. Not because I’m petite, but going back to the eyeglasses thing. The other day I was like, “Oh, I think it would be really cool to try out wearing some glasses. I’d like to add more structure to my look. I don’t love earrings. I just want to try something different.” So I tried on a bunch of glasses and I was like, “I think these are all wearing me.” So how do you know when something is wearing you versus when you are standing out? Especially when we think about oversized glasses—how do you know it feels right versus distracting?Evonne: From a literal sense, if the fabric feels overwhelming on me, I’m literally drowning in it. That’s probably the biggest thing for me. A lot of pants are way too long. I also have a smaller chest. So I’m constantly looking at brands that show up well and can play to my strengths of being petite.One of the brands that does this really well—although she’s on the pricier side—is Ulla Johnson. Her smaller size frame, I literally feel like, was made for me. It plays with proportion, it plays with shape, and I really gravitate toward things that accentuate that for me so the fabric first and foremost isn’t wearing me.Even though I love oversized glasses and I love a puff sleeve and I play with exaggeration constantly in my wardrobe, I also have to make sure there’s balance. There could be a puff sleeve, but I’m wearing fitted trousers so that I’m not being swallowed whole by the garment. So it’s really about playing with proportion.Maureen: Yeah, I think I’m curious what you think about this. Sometimes I think about it as, do you see me or do you see the clothes? Do you feel like there’s any aspect of that for you or a difference?Evonne: I don’t really think so. I’ve always been someone who expresses myself in style. I’ve always had a knack for fashion—way, way, way before I decided to make a career of it. And I can’t tell you how many times I’ve been shopping with a girlfriend and they’re like, “Oh, I could never wear that. You could pull it off.” And I’m like, “But you can wear it. You just have to hold your head a little higher.”You’ve got to have the confidence to feel like you can. Literally anyone, in my opinion, can wear anything as long as they hold their head high and have the confidence to wear it. I think anybody can wear anything. So I’ve never really been one to shy away from fashion, because if I feel confident and I feel good in it, it doesn’t really matter. I don’t really care what anyone else thinks. But I could be a very rare breed. That’s not normal for most people.Maureen: No, I don’t disagree. I think a lot of people feel that way. I was mostly thinking about preferences. For me personally, as much as I love really flamboyant fashion, I don’t want to be overshadowed by it. That’s my only hesitation.Evonne: Right.Maureen: It’s not necessarily a confidence thing, but I think sometimes it’s just a preference of how you want to show up in the world. For some people, leading with the fashion is the most fun possible thing. And I think we just have different ways of experiencing clothes. I’m the kind of person that if you’re wearing something amazing, I’m the one who starts the conversation with, “Oh my God, your outfit’s amazing.” I’m receptive to that. I think we’re just different little puzzle pieces in the conversation, in different roles.Evonne: Yeah, for sure.Maureen: What about body awareness? What I mean by this is how does clothing’s texture, fit—how does any of that impact whether or not you connect with a garment or want to wear it?Evonne: I think over the years there are definitely signature details that I gravitate toward. In silhouette—whether that’s a puff sleeve, whether that’s a ruffle, whether that’s a polka dot. Texture is a fun one. But again, it’s about finding potentially the right brand and the shapes that fit your mold, and then working those into the textures that work best for your body, if that makes sense.Maureen: Anything you steer away from because of how it feels?Evonne: Nothing that I would say I universally steer away from. I would say the thing I’m maybe most self-conscious about is that I have a smaller chest. So anything that gets too low—Maureen: As you’re sitting here in the most buttoned-up thing possible.Evonne: Exactly. This might be a personal detail, but I have a mole that sits pretty low on my neckline and chest. It’s usually my gauge. If something dips lower than that, I’m like, okay, this is too much.Because I’m small-chested, it does get hard when tops don’t fit the way I’d like. Sometimes I think, oh, I’d kill for a bigger chest so I could gravitate toward different silhouettes and play with my neckline more. But because I’m small-chested, I steer away from certain things because I don’t feel good in them. It’s not my best sense of self. If something drapes too much there, I don’t want to accentuate the fact that nothing is there.Maureen: Oh yeah, totally. I think we all have aesthetic preferences for our body. It doesn’t have to be about “flattering” or understanding every reason why something does or doesn’t work. Of course, every week I’m here trying to understand. But sometimes it’s just, “Oh, I just don’t like that.”Evonne: Yeah. It’s not worth it. There are certain things I’ve tried to push myself to like, and I just can’t like them. And I’m like, why do I care so much about liking this? This is the situation I’m in. I’m going to stop trying to force that.Maureen: I don’t really like wearing oversized tops. I prefer a fitted top and then a really wide pant. That’s my favorite silhouette. I think it’s fun. When I see someone else wearing something oversized on top, I’m like, oh, I’d love to try that. And then I remember—I’ve actually tried that a ton of times and I consistently don’t like it. So maybe we can stop trying that. Or maybe not right now.Evonne: Totally.Maureen: We can give ourselves that acceptance and grace. We don’t have to understand more.Evonne: I can’t tell you how many times I need to buy a dress for a special occasion and I get so attracted to an oversized shape because I love playing with proportions. It’s constantly something I pick up. Then I get to the fitting room and I have the same thought you just shared. “Why do I keep picking this shape?”I look like a lunch bag—like a paper bag. I’m completely lost in the fabric. This is not going to look good at a special event. I’m not going to feel confident or like my best self in this item. I know I have to pick either a more formal dress or something that accentuates my smaller proportions, because that’s where I’m going to look my best and not have the garment wearing me.But for whatever reason, even though we’ve talked about this so many times, I forget.Maureen: We all forget. And that’s OK. Especially when we’re doing so much stuff online, we’re constantly seeing examples of an oversized silhouette—just because we both said that specifically—in all the catalogs. And then you get that into your head as the best aesthetic. I’m only speaking for myself, right? I get that into my head as the best aesthetic. And then I have to reframe and remind myself, yes, I see that in the catalogs or I see that online, but that doesn’t immediately translate to what I feel best in. We have to do that kind of filter.Evonne: Totally. And when you are in person, it can be hard to tell sometimes, when you see something on the hanger, how oversized it’s going to be or what shape it’s going to take. That’s why shopping in person is the absolute best. A company hates to see my return coming because on the model—the five-nine model who wears a size two or four—it looks incredible on her. But on me, who’s not five-nine, I’m drowning in it. That’s one of my biggest frustrations with shopping online because I am not that person.Maureen: None of us are, right?Evonne: Exactly. And it almost always gets returned. That’s why I try to stick to brands where my fit is consistent. Like FRAME denim. I know no matter what, anytime I go in there, my size is my same size—no matter the fit, no matter the fabric. It’s consistency for me. And that’s what keeps me coming back. No matter how many times I walk into that store saying, “I’m not going to buy anything,” I always walk out with something because they know what they’re doing when it comes to fit and size.Maureen: That’s awesome. It’s so good to have those brands that just work.Evonne: It’s taken me years to find the brands that work best for me. And I’m constantly trying to find new ones because your style evolves, it changes, colors change, your fit can fluctuate. So you almost need to have a handful in your wheelhouse whenever you’re shopping.Maureen: Totally. What’s exciting you in fashion right now?Evonne: There’s definitely something. I love the resurgence of modern prep—what some people call preppy academia. And one of the brands I literally cannot get enough of is La Veste. They’re a Spanish brand. They really take this interpretation adventurously and spin the whole concept on its head.They borrow from preppiness—structure, polish, tradition—but then inject color and charm and a little chaos in ways where the result feels familiar but delightfully offbeat. They’re just having so much fun with it. I’m constantly amazed season after season how they top themselves again and again.They have stores in Europe but none in the U.S. They did a pop-up in SoHo last summer. I cannot recommend them enough, especially when it comes to mixing color. That’s maybe the other thing I’m most interested in right now—unexpected color combinations.Red with brown. Black with navy—shout out to Fanny Adams and Kelly Williams for that one. I never thought I’d dabble in black and navy, but they’ve spun it on its head for me. And La Veste plays with olive and chartreuse or hunter green in stripes and patterns where you’d think, “I would never put these together,” but the way they pair them makes you see things completely differently.The market feels so oversaturated right now. So many options. A lot of the tried-and-true brands sadly feel the same. So I love when brands lean into familiarity but take it to another level with detail or color that makes them truly unique and stand out from the crowd.Maureen: I’ll make sure to include a link in the show notes. Coming toward the end here—what advice would you give to someone trying to build a wardrobe that feels intuitive and authentic to them?Evonne: Pay attention to how the clothes make you feel, not how they look on anyone else. Reach for those pieces on repeat because they make you stand taller and instantly feel more like yourself. That’s the sweet spot.From there, look for patterns in what you already love. Textures. Colors that work on your skin tone or complement your eyes. That’s your personal brand story starting to take shape. And most importantly, give yourself permission to edit. If something served you 10 years ago but doesn’t now, get rid of it. It doesn’t need to be in your closet. I’m a big believer in a seasonal closet overhaul. If you’re not gravitating toward something anymore, don’t save it for a rainy day. If you haven’t worn it in two or three years, let it go. It’s not serving you. It’s not bringing you joy.Maureen: I’m a secret minimalist, so I love that advice. And I love what you said about paying attention to how it feels on you rather than how it looks on someone else. I think I could have used that advice years ago.Thank you so much. Where can listeners find you?Evonne: You can all find me on Substack at Musings of a Merchandiser.Maureen: Fabulous. I’ll make sure to link to that. Thank you—this was really fun.Evonne: Thanks for having me.OutroIntuitive Style is produced, edited, and hosted by me, Maureen McLennon Welton. Our theme music is by Tim Reed and Jacob Welton.In case you missed it, Intuitive Style the podcast is an offshoot of Intuitive Style, the newsletter. Head over to Substack, and search Intuitive Style to read the newsletter—which covers reflections on personal style, guest features, and encouragement that there is no wrong way to get dressed.If you enjoyed this episode, please rate and review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, or share with someone who might enjoy it.Don’t forget to subscribe as new episodes drop weekly on Fridays.Thanks Get full access to Intuitive Style at maureenwelton.substack.com/subscribe