Episode 265: Sean Goggins on Sustainability through CHAOSS

Guest Sean Goggins Panelist Richard Littauer Show Notes In this episode of Sustain, host Richard Littauer chats with guest Sean Goggins, a tenured full Professor of Computer Science at the University of Missouri. Sean discusses his extensive involvement in the open source community, particularly through his work with the CHAOSS Project, a Linux Foundation initiative focused on understanding and improving open-source project sustainability. Their conversation covers Sean's academic background, his role in CHAOSS, the importance of distributed leadership, and how metrics can impact the sustainability of open source projects. Sean also shares insights into his teaching methods, the challenges of maintaining open source software, and the future direction of his work on CHAOSS and Augur. Hit the download button now! [00:01:25] Sean shares that he’s a professor specializing in software engineering, algorithms, data science, and visualization, and he discusses his tenure status and passion for research and open source work. [00:02:41] Sean explains how open source leadership is distributed rather than centralized. [00:04:45] We hear how the CHAOSS Project emerged from studying open source governance and leadership. Sean and Matt Germonprez started working on open source collaboration data and a metrics-focused discussion at a Linux Foundation Summit that led to the founding of the CHAOSS Project in 2017. [00:08:23] Richard asks Sean how he balances research, teaching, and open source. Sean discusses how he splits time between research (40%), teaching (40%), and service (20%), with CHAOSS being a major part of his research efforts. [00:13:27] Sean explains that the Augur Project was born out of a need for structured open source data tracking. [00:15:18] Richard asks Sean if he teaches his students about open source, and he explains that he uses CHAOSS and Auger to teach students about GitHub collaboration, pull requests, and open source workflows. [00:19:25] Sean shares his insights on research and open source. He emphasizes his involvement in maintaining software and aiding organizations in making sense of CHAOSS metrics through Augur, which has given him a deep understanding of open source development. [00:20:44] Sean explains why he thinks metrics help make projects more sustainable and how the CHAOSS community has benefitted from fostering a welcoming environment for both technical and non-technical contributors. [00:25:23] We hear some challenges within CHAOSS where it’s been difficult to build a strong developer community around CHAOSS software tools and maintaining open source software requires significant effort. [00:28:11] He goes further to explain how to be a better project and that there’s potential for improving project sustainability through structured mentoring and governance. [00:35:07] Sean shares CHAOSS Project’s future and research goals. Quotes [00:03:46] “Distributed leadership: this exists in most of open source. There’s not often a single individual who drives an entire project.” [00:09:18] “You have 40% of your time for teaching, 40% of your time for research, and 20% of your time for service.” [00:12:15] “There’s a challenge of being a university professor. The advantage is you can do what you want, the challenge is that you have to set your own boundaries.” [00:23:12] “A leading indicator for community health is how many newcomers you have coming in over time.” [00:28:14] “How can I have a better project? It’s the same as going to a family reunion and saying, ‘How can we be a better family’?” Spotlight [00:37:25] Richard’s spotlight is BibtexParser. [00:38:21] Sean’s spotlight is Stuart Geiger. Links SustainOSS [email protected] [email protected] SustainOSS Discourse SustainOSS Mastodon Open Collective-SustainOSS (Contribute) Richard Littauer Socials Sean Goggins Website Sean Goggins X Nora McDonald Website Nora McDonald-Commonwealth Cyber Initiative Sustain Podcast- 3 episodes featuring guest Georg Link Sustain Podcast- 2 episodes featuring guest Dawn Foster Matt Germonprez-Univ. of Nebraska Omaha The Linux Kernel Maintainer Summit-Tokyo, Japan 2025 Alfred P. Sloan Foundation CHAOSS CHAOSS-GrimoireLab CHAOSS-Augur Kelly Blincoe-University of Auckland James Howison Sustain Podcast- episode 218 featuring guest James Howison Sustain Podcast-episode 243 featuring guest Elizabeth Barron Sustain Podcast-episode 65 featuring guest Brian Proffitt Sustain Podcast-2 episodes featuring guest Duane O’Brien Sustain Podcast-episode 200 featuring guest Stuart Geiger Digital Infrastructure Podcast- 2 episodes featuring guest Rayya El Zein BibtexParser Stuart Geiger Credits Produced by Richard Littauer Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound Show notes by DeAnn Bahr Peachtree Sound Special Guest: Sean Goggins.