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Hey y'all, welcome to Birth Bestie Radio, we're your host Crystal and MacKayla, aka The Birth Besties. We're two passionate educators with seven kids between us. During the podcast, we are going to take a fun, light-hearted approach to look at the real truths about pregnancy, birth, and motherhood. In other words, from bump to teen and everything in between.
If you're pregnant, you may think that you just go to the hospital and have a baby, but remember, it's equally as important to train for this event like you would any other athletic event. What do you think, Crystal? I didn't even know that you needed to train for childbirth, and I had no idea that courses even existed to teach me how to have a baby. Absolutely exist, but finding time to fit in a lengthy childbirth course, that can be really difficult to do.
And then your next option is Google, and well, that's just way too overwhelming. Move over Google, and lengthy childbirth classes on a spare talk is the premier online childbirth course that provides convenient evidence-based personalized training at your fingertips. The Birth Besties, MacKayla and Crystal, yours truly, are your personal coaches for pregnancy and birth. If you're ready to start training for your ideal birth without the hassles and scheduling complex, go to www.honestbirthtalk.com and contact us for your free consultation.
In this week's episode, MacKayla and I are talking all about our speaking engagement at Vistir and the natural birth movement. We were invited to speak there, and unfortunately, MacKayla wasn't able to attend, but she has some great insight, so we decided to discuss everything on our podcast, so that we can both bring our perspectives and talk about what we learned and who we met and just about the movement. As I was so sad that I couldn't be there yesterday, I was so excited that you got the opportunity to stand up for both of us for Honest Birth Talk as a whole and share what we're all about, but also your personal experience about V-Bex. We're so honored to be able to have a panel that we get to share our voice and our mission.
So proud of you, Crystal. You rocked it. Well, one of the coolest things about being there, guys, was just the amazing providers who we were able, I say we. I'm just going to say we because we're one.
We were able to meet. I know a lot of them. Roxanne Springs is the amazing midwife who planned this event, and she was my midwife for my home birth after two C-sections. So she's a powerhouse in the birth community.
She really sticks her neck out for women and does things kind of against the grain. I think something that a lot of people don't even realize is that we think of midwives as having, especially in the Pacific Northwest, kind of free reign, but talking to these providers shed some serious light on some things that I wasn't even completely aware of, that in that community, women who providers who take on breach birth and even be back after two or three C-sections, they are kind of treated poorly within their own community because they're going against the grain. I mean, I think all midwives want to give women these choices, but unfortunately the policies regulating hospitals and doctors really has a trickle-down effect, and we know that V-Bex aren't allowed in birth centers. So even within that community, there's a lot of kind of competition and just nastiness that I think needs to go away, because at the end of the day, we're about supporting women.
What I heard you say is words like things are not allowed in birth centers or in hospitals, and there's people behind those decisions that are stating we're not going to allow this, we're not going to allow that, and they're making a lot of those choices for everyone. And it's really unfortunate because it's really setting the birth world back, and then you have people like Roxanne who are trying to think, you know, before we think we're thinkers, to really serve women and couples and help them achieve what they desire, and then there's people turning around throwing nasty hate and judgments and guilt at them, and we find that, we find that all the time in the birth worlds, we find or in women's groups in general, oh, join this group and you can share anything with no judgment, and then you see this thread of, I can't believe you would do it that way, I can't believe you want that. And really, all we're doing is walking around in circles and we're not getting anywhere, when that's the way that we think. Oh my gosh, I totally agree.
I think that what's important about the quote, natural birth movement, is that at the end of the day, it is not about natural birth. I think all births are natural. Women giving birth is natural. Women's bodies are amazing, no matter how that baby comes in the world, but I think there's medicalized birth and there's surgical births and then there's non-medicated births.
But I think we're all amazing human beings who are having a natural occurrence by giving birth. But the movement needs to be just women supporting women. I mean, there doesn't need to be this divide of you have to decide and you were either on this fence or that fence or in this camp or that camp and that's something that we, that is why we created Onisburg Talk to be the way it is. Yes, we are both, we love natural birth.
We're not going to disguise that because we both have had powerful experiences with natural birth. But at the end of the day, it is about you having, being loved, supported, honored, respected in your birth experience, whether you choose to get the epidural when you walk through the door or you choose a repeat C section, at the end of the day where you in control did you get to make those choices. And as exactly like Michael said, it is, why are we so hateful to one another? It's not our experience, it's someone else's experience and the same goes for providers.
Why can't providers support each other and say, gosh, that one's not for me. I don't feel comfortable attending a breach birth, but wow, that is amazing that you're willing to do it because at the end of the day, if you support women, you support women's choices. So Crystal, tell us a little bit about the event that you attended yesterday. You sat on two different panels.
The first one was a panel with other childbirth educators and people that are trying to teach and share in the birth world. What was that like? What did you hear and what were some of the common themes that you got out of it? All right, awesome question.
Well, at the end of the day, you know what's refreshing is that there was four childbirth educators on that panel. So there was me and three others. And we all teach a different way, but it was refreshing to hear that at the end of the day, our way is not the only way. We can educate and empower women in so many different ways and each educator has their own spin on it.
So a little difference for honest birth talk is we provide evidence-based, non-judgmental education. We aren't affiliated with LeMoz or hip-no-birthing, which they're great. Those companies are wonderful. They provide child birth education.
They provide long-term support, but they're all different and they each have a different kind of set of tenants, if you will, about their philosophies on birth. I did learn something yesterday and apparently LeMoz International has changed a lot. And so it was refreshing to sit on a panel and kind of learn from a new educator, her take and then her spin on it because each educator, even if they are affiliated with hip-no-birthing or LeMoz or birthing from within, they all have their own unique experiences with their clients. So it was just really refreshing to hear on that panel that no one set up there and said, my way's the only way.
I will say that those three were like, wow, you did something really different. Yours is online. Are you guys able to keep that personal connection? So I got to explain how honest birth talk is revolutionizing childbirth in the sense that yes, we're online, but no, we aren't just sending people on their way with a workbook and a video because we are invested with our weekly coaching calls with our clients.
So that was really refreshing to hear. I will say that we all have a different approach. And so that's what's amazing about people searching for childbirth, is if you can do your Google research and figure out which one really resonates with you, everything's a little bit different. We all offer something unique.
You got a really good point about how you had four educators sitting up there answering questions with really one purpose, which was shared between all four of you, which is to provide women with options and to educate them on the actual birth process because somewhere in our out of the, you know, growing up, we didn't receive that information and we were expected to know our bodies. And the actual fact is that we don't. We, most people can't even label a diagram with the different parts of a woman's anatomy. But interestingly, I was asked a question the other day about, well, do you think that to be an educator and to be a doula, you, it's better if you've already have kids.
And this was coming from someone that did not have children yet. And she's like, well, and then she answered her own question and was like, well, obviously, because then if you've experienced it, you have that to go off. And my comment was that's not always the best case because I think people on both sides, people that have not had children and people that have had children have two different perspectives. But the good thing about people that haven't had children is you don't have a bias because you haven't experienced it.
But then on the flip side, those people that have had children do have an experience that they can bring to the table and share. And those come with all different types of experiences. Crystal has three completely different experiences. I have three completely different experiences.
I say three for Crystal, because remember she got two for the place of one. So yeah, it really resonated with me when you said that everybody was up there and has a little bit of a different take on things and a different perspective and a different message, because it's there's something out there for everyone. But the key is to know, or the keys to know that there's information out there. And yeah, you could Google all day long and probably gather information, but well, who has that time?
So you have people that are out there on a mission and have a passion to share with people like you so that you can have the best experience possible. Absolutely. I think what I really enjoyed was being on the VBAC breach panel. So we talked about home birth after C-sections and we talked about access to VBAC and breach birth.
And one of the statistics that really stands out to me is there was roughly 3000 breach babies in the state of Washington last year in 2850 were born via C-section. Many of those were first time moms. And it's sad because breach birth doesn't have to be scary. As one of the providers sitting up there who attends breach birth said, it's just a but.
And I mean, we all chuckled, but it is true. I know we do know that things can go awry, but things can go awry in any setting. And I truly believe that moms, if they want to try a vaginal birth with a breach baby, they shouldn't have to just hand over their experience and give up on that because women's intuition should be trusted and respected. Just as we trust women to make family planning decisions, I think they should be trusted to birth their children the way that they choose.
The problem is they can't access the care. So when we talk so much in this country about access to care and limited access to care, we also have to consider access to care and birth. And it's appalling that in the state of Florida, for example, if you have a home birth, just a home birth, you can't find a pediatrician that will take your baby. That's very limiting to access to care for women.
And it's also a way to bully women because at the end of the day, guys, we're a captive audience because we love our children. We would die for our children. So if it comes from, I'm going to be separated from my child or I'm going to give up my right to choose, we're going to choose our children. And that's where things have really gotten off the rails, I think, because it's also where women who choose to do a home birth or they say that they're not going to have a C-section because of a breach birth.
Do you know that in some states they call CPS? What is a mom going to do in that situation? You're going to consent to that C-section. And that's called bullying.
And we really have to change that. You are so right. It is, those statistics are astounding to me. You said 3000 in Washington alone.
That's not the United States. That's just one state. And if those statistics are that high for one state, think about how high they are across the United States. And really what we've done is, we are, again, we've said this time and time again, but we don't disbelieve in Western medicine.
We feel like it is there for a purpose and it has been a blessing to many. But the conversation is not happening. The informed choices are not happening because of fear and bullying, like Crystal said. And unfortunately, I don't blame the doctors for that because a lot of that bullying is because of the liability that they have on their shoulders.
All of this technology into it, it's a false sense of control which research is actually showing causing more problems than it is solutions. Well, it was ironic. Most of us on the panel were ended up being providers and educators and two of us had had a feedback experience of our own. So it's interesting how many women go through this and become passionate about birth.
And I had the privilege of sitting up there with someone who was on the board of directors for I can for five and a half years. And she had a C-section with her first and subsequently she had three more bebacs. And she said she had more problems with her second bebac than her first because unfortunately at that point she wasn't able to pick her provider or whatnot. She ended up with a provider and even though she had achieved the bebac already, they just didn't believe in her.
They constantly questioned her. They bullied her. They belittled her. They told her she was making the wrong decision.
And let's think about this guy. She had a C-section. She had a bebac. She was getting ready to try for another bebac.
And even though her body worked and everything was fine the first time, it was still this uphill battle. And that's where things are going so awry is why can't we just support women? Why do we have to project our fears and our personal biases onto them? Because those nurses and providers were there to support this woman.
And she's already proven herself once. But yet she faced this uphill battle. So it was interesting just to hear that. And I really appreciated Roxanne and a few of the other midwives talking about how it is a problem.
Even if you've accomplished it at once, it's almost like it didn't happen. I don't know why. But even though you already had one bebac and you go on to have a try for another one. It's like that bebac didn't count.
You were just lucky and we're starting from zero. You know, that is so interesting. And don't you think that part of that uphill battle is because again, as women and just people in general, we need people to validate us. We're constantly looking for validation.
We're constantly looking for, yeah, you did good or it's okay if you did it that way because you know, that was what you wanted to do. But that's not what we're getting. So here's a quick story. I was talking to my aunt this morning actually and I was sharing with her a little bit about what Honest Birth Talk and Honest Mom Talk are doing and the theme of our event that's coming up.
And she said to me, oh my gosh, I wish there was something like this when I had my baby, which was 52 years ago this month. And she said, for example, I didn't want to breastfeed. What? You didn't want to breastfeed?
That was the response that she got. Even 52 years ago, she was judged, she was shamed and she felt so much guilt over the fact that she didn't want to breastfeed. And why is that? Why did she have to go through that?
Because it was a personal choice and yes, we're big proponents of breastfeeding. But who are we to say what is right for someone else? We are not living in their life. We're not living in their body and their mind.
So, you know, why I'm kind of getting on my soapbox here. So, but why is it okay for us to project that onto someone else when we're not living in their shoes? Well, I mean, honestly, I think that this is a problem that's systemic in our society is that our way is the only way, our way is the right way. And that's why we create an Honest Mom Talk because we're all trying to live a healthier life.
We're all trying to do our best. We're balancing stress, we're balancing work, we're balancing our kids, our businesses, whatever we're doing. But at the end of the day, what works for me may not work for you. I mean, McKyla and I are besties.
Like, we talk all day long. But some of the things that I do, she may not do and some of the things that she does, I may not do. You know, there's just this hateful idea that if you, for example, if your kid receives too much sugar, I am highly aware that sugar is not good for children. I get it.
But I'm also not the parent that's going to eliminate it completely. Does that make me a bad mom? No. And if you're a vegan who doesn't allow sugar in your home, I'm not judging you.
I think more power to you. I am so happy that you have the patience and the willpower to do that. God bless you. But we can't tear each other down because someone doesn't believe what we believe.
It's just like childbirth. I at the end of the day will say it again and again. And we as educators on that panel said, I don't care where you get the information. I just want you to have information so that you can make an informed choice.
That's what's scary. It's not whether or not you chose a C-section or not. What's scary to me is that there are so many women who don't realize they have a choice. But if you were honored, loved, respected, and you made an informed decision and you walked in and got an epidural or you were happy getting a repeat C-section, great.
I am happy for you. You got the birth you desired and that is what is important. Some of you maybe wondering what honest mom talk and honest birth talk are. We keep throwing those out there interchangeably.
So just to clear that up for a minute, honest birth talk is our online course. It's the foundation of our business. And honest mom talk is soon to be an international community with women that can connect, relate, and encourage one another without the shame, the guilt, and the judgment. And that's really what this is all about you guys.
We are passionate. You can probably hear that in our voice. We want to create a space and we are creating a space where women like you can feel confident, can feel encouraged, and really do anything that you and your heart desire. I think one of the most important things that we're trying to create in this little container of honest mom talk that it's going to blossom into this international community and regional events is trust yourself and motherhood.
At the end of the day, you have intuition. And there is this fire and this pole that is inside of you and you need to listen to it. That is what the root of honest birth talk and honest mom talk is about is trusting yourself. Yes, you can take in those self-help books and you can listen to podcasts and watch documentaries on Netflix.
But at the end of the day, you have to trust yourself. What works for you and your family may not work for everyone else. And that's okay. You have to be confident and you have to be willing to trust that intuition that was given to you to become the mom that you are, were made to be and the wife or the partner or the friend that you were made to be.
Okay, so today we would like to invite you to reach out to us, go to our website at www.honestbirthtalk.com and reach out to us because we want to hear your voice. We want you to come and we would love to interview you for our podcast. We would love to get to know more about you. And so we would like to really call the action today and to invite you to share.
Share your stories. Share your experiences. If you are a birth professional or someone that works in healthcare, share with us. We want to hear it.
We want to hear your opinions. We want to hear your thoughts. We want to hear your experiences. So again, go to www.honestbirthtalk.com and reach out to us.
How would you like to spend three days away? Away from your kiddos and away from your lovely spouse. Okay, not even three days. How about even just a day?
That would be amazing, right? Well, we've planned the perfect event for you. At our honest birth talk and honest mom talk event, the best E weekend getaway, you get to learn how to ditch the mom labels, explore deep self-care, and let loose ladies. We want you to find your favorite high heels because it's going to be a wonderful weekend to let loose.
What happens at mom's night out stays at home. If you want to learn more about our three day event in Las Vegas, please go to our website, www.honestbirthtalk.com. Or if you want to hop in with us right now, join our group on Facebook, Honest Mom Talk. Be hand way to see you there.
Thank you for joining us on Birth Bestie Radio. If you would like to be a guest or a sponsor for our show, contact us at www.honestbirthtalk.com. That's honestbirthtalk.com. We'll see you next week.