Episode 36: Zhuangzi's happy fish debate

In this episode, we take up one of the most puzzling and fascinating passages in the Zhuangzi: the “Happy Fish” debate between Zhuangzi and Huizi. Can Zhuangzi really know that the fish are happy if he is not a fish? Along the way, we explore skepticism, language, animal minds, and the ordinary but surprisingly sophisticated ways we recognize joy in other living things.Want to skip to the episode's primary philosophical issue? Go to12:22 Preface to today's topic13:57 The Zhuangzi's happy fish debateMany thanks to The Hong Kong Ethics Lab for sponsoring this podcast series.Want to continue the discussion? Need links to some of the sources mentioned? Go to the support page for this episode on Warp, Weft, and Way.We thank Lena Li (LI La 李拉) for her expert editing and sound engineering.Co-hosts:Richard Kim's websiteJustin Tiwald's website