Welcome to the Pipe Liners podcast, episode 41. The Pipe Liners podcast. We're professionals, Baba Geeks and industry insiders share their knowledge and experience about technology, projects and pipeline operations. And now your host, Russell Treet.
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To learn how you can win this signature prize back, stick around to the end of the episode. This week, we have Stuart Salter with the American Petroleum Institute, coming back to join us and talk about policymaking and APIs role. So with that, let's welcome Stuart Salter. Stuart, welcome back to the Pipe Liners podcast.
Yes, no, happy to have you to be back. Well, I asked you to talk today about policymaking and APIs role as policy makers. And I think that's probably something that maybe a lot of people who are kind of at the worker level don't really understand about our industry is how all that works, broadly through the industry, the people who are familiar with API or working with API standards. But policymaking is also a big part of what you guys do.
So maybe you could start off by talking to us about what is policymaking and how is that different, how does it work differently than standards making? Yeah, no, happy to draw the distinction. And I've been at API for almost about five years now. And so definitely understand some of the confusion that kind of comes with it.
You know, folks remember, I shared that I used to work for Chevron prior to API. So I was, you know, one of my first roles was the Tank Engineer at the refinery, one of the Chevron refineries. And so I was very familiar with API 650 and 653 and those standards, but didn't really know what all we did from a policy standpoint until I actually started working on it. So hopefully, I can give a little bit of clarification here.
I think if you think about, you know, the organization, there's kind of two sides of the house, so to speak. And so one side is with our global information services. The acronym is GIS, which confuses everybody. That's a pipe liner, but that's what they decided to do whenever they set up the organization.
And so within our Global Information Services Department, that's where the standards development works sits, as well as programs, you know, folks that are in the procurement or doing construction projects, you're familiar with API 5L and the monogram. That all is kind of housed in that GIS element of API. And I'm on the other side, which is the policy side. And so from a policy standpoint, we're the ones at our members, the API members, kind of, they make us or our job is to support their efforts in a policy setting, you know, situation.
So engaging with regulators, engaging with, you know, so that's the executive branch and also engaging with the legislative branch. And so we've got API members that are pipeline organizations in my situation here. And they're the ones that kind of, you know, require us to or ask us to go and engage with different government entities to try to encourage policies that support what they're trying to do. As somebody who's involved in policy making, what does that actually look like?
What's your job on a day-to-day basis? Yeah, no, good question. And I should have alluded to it just a few minutes ago. But I think, you know, the pipeline space is very unique in that a lot of what are in regulations are standards.
And so a standard is incorporated by reference, which means that essentially that is the regulation. And so, you know, and there's SME that's incorporated by reference, and they're standards are incorporated by reference. And so if you go to your code book and you flip in the front part of it, you'll see all these different standards that are incorporated by reference are included. So those are essentially the regulations.
And so my role as a policy advisor is a little more unique than other colleagues that have got because of that intersection between the standards and the regulations. And so I do spend a lot of time working with the standards committees, you know, ensuring that the content in these documents, you know, is the best practice. You know, we've kind of somebody said it and it's kind of the tide lifts all boats, so to speak. And so we as operators have what the right content is, have valuable content in these standards.
And so that's what, you know, will be in regulation or that's what, you know, we want to show public stakeholders that we're willing to pursue. And so a lot of that has more to do with a pipeline policy role than maybe it would at like a refinery policy or an upstream type policy where you're working on production standards or things like that. And so, but you know, generally speaking, my job as policy advisor is really engaging with the regulator in how they are developing policy. And so that's the regulations, right?
So if you're a gas transmission operator or gas pipeline operator, the code for regulations part 192, and then if you're a liquids transmission operator, it's part 195. So, you know, probably terms that are mostly familiar with your listeners, they're Russell, but that's what I spend my days doing is trying to figure out, you know, what VIMS, the pipeline regulator, the pipeline and hazards and sales safety administration is doing, you know, how they're enforcing regulations or how they're trying to change regulations and essentially, and basically working with the members, they can members and making sure that what VIMS is doing is, is, is practical, is fit for purpose. We can use those terms. Yeah, that's, I think that's really a key thing.
You know, this idea of policy making as a, and a collaborative effort between the public, the government entities, and that's not just federal, that could also be state and local. So a collaborative effort between the public, people that, you know, that government are there to represent and support government, and then industry, which is, you know, trying to operate. And it's a, it's a, it's where the, those different needs and interests are being arbitrated. And the industry issue is to, okay, we want to do what we can to be as safe as possible, but it's got to be practical.
Yep. Yep. You know, we as industry are goal is zero, we'd stand behind that. And it's just ensuring that, you know, there's a practical element in the policy that helps to execute that.
So, I know that people that are in the pipeline, business get this, I don't know necessarily that people who are not in the business get it, but, you know, one of the reasons that, that people that I know, like the pipeline business is that, you know, you're outdoors, you're in the environment, you're, you're, you're out in the wilderness often. And, you know, most of the people I know, you know, really love and respect and want to take care of the environment and our local communities, you know, so that this, this idea of safety and this idea of operating with excellence, it's, you know, I think that the people I meet, that's what they want to do. Sometimes they get, you know, the, the, what you'll hear, I won't say this is valid or not, but what sometimes what you'll hear is that the, the regulations are burdensome or onerous, or they're about paperwork, they're not about actually doing things better. And I think part of the role in this policymaking and part of the beauty, if you will, of having API standards incorporated into policy, is that it arbitrates that, that tension, if you will, between appropriate oversight and being able to do the job.
Yep. No, absolutely. And that is, in another thing, I mean, not only do you have that, you know, kind of input into regulation, I think some people may not like this, mostly government people, but it takes time to write a regulation to go through the process. And if you think about a change in administration and the way governments come and go, at least, you know, administration's coming go, then then that just adds time, whereas the API standards and the other industry guidance is out there.
It doesn't necessarily have those, you know, variables or the, or the components kind of affecting it, maybe like a regulation or the regulation process will say does. And so it helps out and it's not like, you know, the regulator's run apart of the standards conversations, you know, Russell, you've been involved or some of your folks have been involved in API standards and development and VIMS is, VIMS is going to see the table, the pipeline, city trust has to see the table just like operators do. And honestly, to have our standard accreditation as an, as a standard development organization, we have to show that we're doing our due diligence to invite these other stakeholders to these standard development meetings. So that's not just a one-sided document, there is a balance as the document is written.
And at the end of the day, it is a document that, you know, truly addresses each stakeholders opinion. Yeah, what makes sense to me, well, I guess in the feedback, we'll find out whether it makes sense to the listeners or not. The other thing I wanted to talk a little bit about from a policymaking standpoint is you're really interacting with two different branches of government, both the executive and the legislative. So maybe we can do a little bit of a civics lessons as applied to pipelineing.
So talk to me a little bit, if you will, about those two branches and how your role with API is in policy interacts with those two branches and how are their roles different? Yeah, no, good question. And this is something I had to learn. You know, when I first started working with API and it's been a lot of education for me and like you said, civics and understanding how the founding fathers set up our government.
So day to day, I worked more with the pipeline hazardous material, state administration, so PHMSA, which is a part of the Department of Transportation. It's a kind of a sub-department in that larger department, which is a evident, you know, a level position that reports to the president. And so that's because they have more day to day oversight and pipeline operation. Their regulations obviously impact operators more because that's what they have to comply with.
That's what they're audited about and they engage with PHMSA. And so, you know, our members, the API members ask me to engage more with PHMSA. Now every five years, there's a pipeline reauthorization bill. So essentially Congress authorizes PHMSA to, and when I say authorize, it gives them money.
So there's, you know, there's probably a little too much civics to get into here to say that, you know, it's not like PHMSA's going to, like when the government shutdown happens, it's not like PHMSA shuts down to a certain extent because there's different ways that they get money from operators and things like that to help their budget continue. But they have to be authorized by Congress every five years to continue as agency. So it's not necessarily like the Defense Department or other agencies that they have to have money authorized from Congress to continue. So anyway, that's just a little nuance.
But in that reauthorization efforts, that is how I work directly with the legislative branch. So that's Congress. And so within Congress, there's kind of obviously the Senate and House of Representatives, but then within each chamber, they have what they would call committees of jurisdiction. And so those committees of jurisdiction are made up of senators and the Senate and representatives in the House.
And they kind of are really the policymakers and they're the ones that really are riding the bill when it comes to pipeline reauthorization. So, so not only, and I guess I should add too, that not only is the pipeline reauthorization kind of authorizing PHMSA with money, it also is an opportunity for Congress to tell PHMSA what they want them to do. And so if you can imagine, you know, Congress is always obviously made up of people who have constituents. And so their constituents weigh into these congressmen and tell them, hey, you know, this is what I think this should do, especially if there's a pipeline in their district or whatever it may be.
And so, so that kind of is another element of what I do from policy standpoint. But again, that's more rare because it's just every five years. Well, and you know, the other thing we talked about in our last episode, we talked a little bit about we were talking about safety management, we were talking about San Bruno and the Marshall incidents. And part of the outcome was legislation that was called a congressional mandate that specifically told PHMSA to implement certain regulatory requirements and impose them on industry as an outcome of those incidents.
So in addition to the reauthorization, Congress can take action when it feels appropriate to provide direction to the agency. No, absolutely. And that's usually, you know, obviously it doesn't have to have every five years of something, if something kind of unforeseen or if there is a, you know, hopefully not, but if there is an incident that does occur, Congress can act outside of that window or scoot the window up. But yeah, usually, you know, something that has happened transpired within that time period, especially if it's in a certain person's district or whatever, and they'll be sure that this legislation, this bill has direction to PHMSA to do something.
So yeah, so a couple of specific examples that the listeners might not be aware of that are kind of interesting to me. One is, so the Control Remangement Rule was published into law in early 2010. And then in the middle of 2010, we had San Bruno, Marshall, and Lucundo. And then immediately after that, there was a push from Congress to accelerate the implementation requirement of the Control Remangement Rule.
And that all happened within the confines of a year. And the industry, you know, the industry looked at it and said, you know, it's reasonable. We've had these incidents and we've got these things in the pipeline. It's reasonable to accelerate them.
And there was actually a little bit of negotiation, if you will, around the details of what could get accelerated and what couldn't get accelerated given the practicality of implementing in those timeframes. So, you know, when you're only, and I, that was when I really started getting deeply involved in PHMSA, and I was going to the technical, and I continued to go, but started going to the technical advisory committees. And, you know, I got to say that from my standpoint, when I was kind of watching the wheels of government turn, it was really encouraging. Because all the right voices were there.
And to me, the decisions that were getting made and the way that was getting put into law and, you know, and implemented by industry and doing what was in the best interest of the public. I mean, I looked at that and I said, you know, yeah, this can be kind of a messy process sometimes. But when you look at what's going on, you actually, you actually have some, some confidence in our government. Yeah.
I mean, there's definitely, you know, some sausage making if you want to call it that, but, but I think that that technical advisory committee is a powerful voice. And at least from an industry standpoint, you know, it's senior leaders, fasting your leaders that are very knowledgeable and API. We try, we engage those gentlemen. It's all been at this point, but we engage those guys and say, hey, you know, what do you need?
What material do you need to be sure you have the right can have the right conversation. And we've talked about him before, but you know, Carl Wimer with the pipeline safety trust, he's on that advisory committee, at least it's the liquids one he is. And again, you know, we want to have the frank conversation with Carl and we want to be able to provide input for why we think this is the right way to go about certain regulations. And if he has questions and engage him, you know, honestly, and have the debate if that's what it is taken.
But yeah, but no doubt, I think that it's a people may argue, but I agree with you that, you know, when you look at the way, FIMSA, at least when they're regulatory, they're rulemaking process, I feel like they're a great partner to work with. They're willing to have the conversation. And I think some organizations that, you know, that I've seen that other my colleagues work with, they may not have the same relationship that we have with our pipeline regulators. So yeah, I think that's true.
I think that's true. So let's talk about let's kind of shift a little bit in the conversation at this point and talk a little bit more about what is API's more role more broadly. So we've talked about standards, we've now talked about policymaking, but more broadly, what would API's role be? Yeah, no, good question.
And so like I said, API, we have members and so they, you know, pay dues, we're a trade association. And so one of the things that they've not only challenges to do is engage, you know, with the government, but also engage with the public. So they've, you know, they ask and we try to help kind of influence the public and influence isn't really the right word. It's more just trying to promote the safety aspects, the positive aspects of the oil and gas industry.
And so we spend a lot of our effort trying to communicate, you know, whether it's commercials or our advertisements on different outlets, you know, social media, whatever it may be. And so there's a positive message when it comes to oil and gas. And at this point, there's when it comes to natural gas, there's a clean energy message that we're trying to get out, we're trying to promote, we're trying to spread the word about the positive aspects of oil and gas. And so we spend a lot of time, a lot of energy, you know, getting that message out, you know, shaping that message and trying to figure out what is the right aspects of what we do as as members of the oil and gas industry to really help, you know, show the positive things that that the industry does, you know, talk about all the jobs that are created.
We talk about the opportunities, you know, folks that maybe don't want to go to college can can get a good position, you know, welding or doing whatever, at least from a vision space, working on a pipeline. And so we try to help, you know, get those sages out and paint the interest positive light because, you know, frankly, there's a lot of the other voices out there too. And so we want to be able to counter that. Well, I think one of the things that's kind of a compelling argument, if I were going to give any input to API about how to do that public advocacy, here's what that would be.
Did you know you can't make an electric car without only gas? Yes. Everybody go, what? What do you mean by that?
And the truth, you can't make a cell phone without only gas because the plastics, the electronics, you know, the, you know, the underlying things you're using to build this stuff is all coming out of the oil and gas industry. So the oil and gas industry, you know, is not just about heating homes and putting fuel in cars and, you know, running power plants, it's about manufacturing most of what's in your home, or many, many pieces of what's in your home. People don't understand just how pervasive things made that are products that ultimately come from crude oil and natural gas, they just don't get it. The other thing, I would not, I have to say this because I find it humorous, but I would not advocate this as a message to the public, but did you know that only gas are both organic?
Okay, we should move on. Anyways, I find that humorous. I don't know if others will find that humorous. I guess we'll find out if we put this episode out whether people find that humorous or not.
This may be one of your most controversial ones here. So. And I certainly didn't mean for it to be that way. Maybe I should tell the sound guy to cut that part out.
I'll probably leave it in. Anyways, got to have a little humor. So the other thing I want to talk about is we're wrapping up. So tell me a little bit about the API Superbook commercial because I just find that fascinating.
Yeah, no, good question. And thanks for bringing it up. I think so it kind of goes to that point, right, is last year we launched a campaign called PowerPass Impossible. And so PPI is because you have to have a powerpass impossible.
And if you go to powerpassdepossible.org, you can kind of see some of the fancy graphics and a lot of the communication materials that we're using around this campaign. But it goes to that. It goes to that. Hey, you know, obviously cell phones and electric cars and whatever, but space shuttles and empowering, you know, third world countries and all these things, like you need energy at this point, you need oil and gas to do that, to achieve that stuff, to power past the impsable.
And so that's really the genesis of this campaign. That was what the Superbook commercial was kind of that was one of our kind of spots with PowerPass Impossible. And so we really tried to highlight, you know, hey, this is, you know, we don't have the comfort that you have as Americans. And then you're not able to help foster that growth around the world if we don't have if we don't have oil and gas.
And so we really just want to highlight that. You know, obviously we don't want to discount the other forms of energy. I mean, I think if you look at our members, the AP members, there's investment in all types of energy and our CEO, our leadership and API has always been of the all of the above approach. But I think you have to kind of, you know, we talked earlier, you have to be practical in how you approach energy and say, what's achievable now?
And let's focus on that. You know, but obviously, let's not forget about what the future looks like. We can we can focus on that too. But but still understand that only gas has a role.
And at this point, and time has a really important role in ensuring that we have the comfort that we're all enjoying. So so that's probably more than you want to know about Superbook commercial, but but that's it. Well, actually, I know I think that's right on point and as being a little bit flippant earlier, but you know, there is a reality out to all of this. And it is that, you know, oil and gas is and will continue to be for the foreseeable future, a critical element of the modern lifestyle.
And that goes way beyond, you know, what people, you know, the public, if you will think about only gases, that's how fuel my car and talking my home. It's much, much more than that. It's I don't even I don't think you could even build, you know, a power generating windmill without oil and gas providing the materials or the fuel to mold the steel, put them in the windmill up. So, you know, it is it is and will continue to be but that you know, doesn't discount the need to look at other alternatives of energy that are cleaner or provide better economics, you know, ultimately abundant and expensive energy is a important piece of prosperity.
Anyway, I can get on I can get on my soapbox about that whole conversation. That's probably not appropriate. But you know, I do think it's important that that we as an industry try to appropriately educate and probably the most effective education is after you know, occurs, you know, over dinner around the kitchen table or at a bar with your buddies and you know, no, no, let me tell you, this is the way it actually is. Yeah.
So that's always helpful. Yeah, and I will I don't know if we're going to wrap up but I wanted to put in two different plugs. So for that point that you made right there, there's two different initiatives we have at API. One is called energy citizens and the other is energy nation.
And so energy citizens is an initiative that is really trying to give people the material that they need to kind of educate themselves to have those conversations. So, you know, it's an election year, this year, a lot, you know, energy is always kind of, you know, on the politicians kind of brain and it's one of their stump speeches or whatever. And so, you know, as we think about, you know, what you should engage your politicians or your folks running for Congress that energy citizens, it has the material you need as somebody outside of the oil field. And that's really the target audience for that is say, hey, here's here's some information, you know, read it, obviously form your own opinion and then take it to the politicians or take it to your neighbors and say, hey, have you thought about this or have you considered this?
And so, so that's one initiative we have the other's energy nation. And so that's really targeted for folks that are in the oil field. And that's the one that's kind of saying, you know, all right, I'm an oil field worker and you know, I need to educate my neighbor who, you know, works at some else. And so it's really trying to, you know, give them the material they need because, you know, they breathe this stuff day and day after they know the they know how it all works.
But how do you step back into that energy information, the positive energy, you know, aspects of oil and gas and, you know, go talk to your neighbor and say, hey, have you thought about this or have you considered this and that type of thing? So, all right. Stuart, I'm going to try and do kind of my typical thing where I try to really get this down to three key takeaways from this conversation about policy making. And so I'll tip that and then maybe you can tell me whether or not you think I got it right.
Yeah. So I think first off is it's important to understand that there's really kind of three roles for the API in its mission. One of those is development of standards and recommended practice for industry. Another of those is working with policy makers to advocate for that, which is practical.
And then lastly, to educate the public about the industry and all the benefits that it provides and the diligence that it uses in conducting its business. I think I got it pretty good. I think you hit the nail in the head. So there's there's job opportunities if you're looking for a new career.
So you got API.org. Yeah, maybe. I appreciate the opportunity. I'll say it that way.
Well, look, Stuart, it's been a pleasure. I certainly look forward to having you back again at some point in the future as there's relevant news or things that we ought to talk about. This has been great. I've certainly learned a lot and I very much appreciate you joining the conversation.
Yeah, thanks for having us, Russell. It's been a pleasure. I enjoyed having the conversation and hopefully exposing your listeners to a little bit of another side of the business that some of them may not be as familiar about. So great.
Well, thank you for being a guest. All right. Now happy to come back whenever. I hope you enjoyed this week's episode of the Pipeliners Podcast and our conversation with Stuart Salter.
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I'll talk to you next week.