Episode 55 - Religion

It'd be cool. Sure. Yeah. No, it's good.

Okay. Yeah. All right. Cool.

Welcome back to talking nonsense. I'm your host, Colin. I'm here with Christopher. And yeah, you know, the other day, Chris.

So obviously, as I've been saying throughout, I don't know how many episodes now, I am engaged, right? Yeah. Both me and my fiance kind of already set a date for the wedding. And there's a few things that you have to do to kind of like prep for the wedding, you know, like especially if you're going to have like a church wedding.

And one of those things that you kind of have to do, at least in our area, is we had to like watch several videos and kind of answer questions about marriage and like the relationship of marriage to God and God's parents marriage. Yeah. It's actually like quite a lot. That's interesting.

Yeah. We watched one of the videos the other night and the first video was just kind of about the meaning of marriage and like what's God's meaning and stuff like that and then watching it. I don't know. I thought it was kind of funny to me just because in a sense like it's a church, right?

So of course, I'm going to put a lot of emphasis on God and like, you know, why he's involved. Yeah. Yeah. And why he's involved in all that stuff.

And I just kind of funny because like, look, for me, like I do believe in God. But when I hear sometimes other people, I guess talk about God in a way that is just like, yes, God all the way. Like again, I believe in God in anything. But like, I guess to me sometimes when people are trying to stuff it down my throat or my ear, I get kind of cringed and I'm just like, oh gosh, you know, one of the, one of the examples was like, yeah, my marriage wasn't working until I like God into it.

I'm just like, okay. Yeah. You know, so I guess kind of what I wanted to ask you because knowing you knowing how you are like you, you're not one that's very religious. No, right.

Like at all. I kind of wanted a form of control. I'm just kidding. Well, yeah, I kind of wanted to dive into like, why?

You know, I mean, because we both grew up in a Catholic family. Yeah, I know you're very religious. I'm very religious. I went to church as a kid, probably quite often.

Yeah. I don't know if you did. Yeah. Sunday school and stuff like that.

Yeah. I know I get you. I get you. So like at what point were you like, you know what?

The same for me. I mean, that's tough. There wasn't like one definitive moment where I was like, oh, like, like this thing happened and I no longer believe in God, right? I think it was like a series of things that led me to that.

But like, I think the main consistency of all that was just like, I think I just, I kept like, I think it's just because I kept saying people be like, oh, if like, you're kind like to people or if you do things like in the name of the Lord, like, like, but queeth unto you, like everlasting peace, yada yada yada, right? But like those same people would turn around and like just do some really like bad stuff, I guess. So like, like the whole, like the one thing that really like shook, I guess my foundation in like, like with like religion or at least being a Catholic was like the whole, like pre-stitching little boys and stuff. It never happened to me, right?

Just to just clarify. But it's not to make a joke out of it. But like when at least for me, when I first read that, it's like, how do you like, as a young Catholic, I didn't know how to like reconcile that. Like I didn't know how to like process that.

And then it just seemed like a lot of people were like, oh, well, especially like when you talk to people in like different religions, like, um, I don't know like about like your media family, but like my parents were like, like our Catholic, but they can also be kind of like ignorant sometimes. And so, you know, like when like 9-11 happened, right? Like there was a lot of like anti-Islamic like phobia basically going around where it was like, oh, like you're like Muslim, like you're like a terrorist, you look like a certain way, like you must be like up to no good, right? And so like hearing them talk about it was just like, well, they're whole things the same, like they kind of preach the same message almost, right?

Like if anything, like I know when like when you are a follower of the Islamic faith, like you pray like five times a day, right? And so by that measure, are they more, are they more inclined to go to heaven or is their religion more right? Because they pray more is like, is that how that works? Like there were so many like contradictions, I guess, that made me feel like, it's very contradicting for sure.

Like in a sense that, you know, our religion or our as a my religion Catholic, you know, sort of preach love, love all, you know, love each other, love one another, all that stuff. But then when it comes to other religions or like, let's just say, you know, other genders or this whole LGBTQ community, they're kind of like, well, I mean, maybe not all. It's like, what? Did you just preach to love each other and treat each other equally?

And then you're going to go and tell us like that religion's wrong or this thing is wrong, like, I don't know. And to be fair to though, like to kind of play devil's advocate, like I am Catholic, but I'm not that Catholic where I studied the Bible and I know everything in the Bible is saying. So maybe, you know, I'm not, I don't understand it fully to really judge them for, you know, being kind of hypocritical in that sense. I'm sure there's a reason and there's probably even a better understanding, but I get it though.

Like I get what you're trying to say too. It's just hearing those things and seeing the contradiction does make you kind of be like, well, why am I following this thing? And I think for me, I guess for me, I sort of like to believe in the Bible. In something higher than myself, which is why I do still kind of believe in God, just to sort of like make my life a little bit easier in a sense that if something bad does happen to me, I'm not thinking like, Oh my gosh, I'm terrible.

Like this is happening to me because of me, because I'm doing something wrong, because, you know, I kind of, it's funny when I think about this now, it's kind of like pushing off my own bad feelings to somebody else, which is God. And I'm not saying like God's doing this because he's, you know, he's bad or whatever. I'm sort of saying it like, okay, this has happened to me because God probably has a plan for me. You know what I mean?

That's how I see it. And that's kind of why I guess could say I am a little bit religious in that sense, or I am religious in that sense. So like, I know you and I talked about this before, but like for you, and I'm not trying to call you out or anything like that, but like if something bad happens to you, how do you sort of deal with it without without being religious or I guess, you know, in your sense? So yeah, if something bad happens to me, like I find it more comforting knowing that it was within my control that I could have changed its outcome.

So it forces, I feel like it forces me to be a better person. Like when I was like going to Sunday school or like I guess when I was a Catholic, right? Like honestly, one of my biggest pet peeves that I had was like, people kept falling back onto the whole, oh, it's okay. God has a plan for me thing, which is all great and dandy, right?

It's good to have that faith. But at the same time, it's like, I feel like it was coming to a point where people were like just absolving themselves of any responsibility or of any consequence of whatever they did. Like, yeah. And like that to me personally, that just seems like a cop out.

It's like, if you're being addicted to someone, right? And like, you like, I can't think of a good example, but like if you're being an asshole or something, right? And you're like, oh, well, God has a plan for me. So like eventually I'll become a good person.

It's like, no, I'm pretty sure God doesn't want you to be a fucking asshole. It's people like, like that's something you can work on on your own as a human being. I mean, it's not as simple as that, right? But yeah, so to answer your question though, like for me, right, if something bad happens, I feel like I grow more as a human being where I can identify like, oh, this is where something went wrong.

I could have said something here. I could have done something different here. And like, yeah, the moment's already passed, but it's like, I guess going into the future, I can be more mindful about a certain situation or I can be more more present at least. Right.

But like, I will say though, like I am invasitive of your ability to like believe in something like that. And I guess kind of on that note though, like what was it, is it easy for you or like, is it like, because for me, it's like, I need to see something, right? Like, anyone can say like, oh, yeah, like God is real. Yeah.

But it's like, it's as human beings, it's easier to observe something and then be like, okay, that's obviously real, right? Like, if I told you like jellyfish, secrete, whatever, and you don't see it. There's an explanation behind it. Yeah.

Like if you don't see it, you'll be like, well, I don't know. But if you do see it, you're like, okay, that makes sense. Because he said it. And I saw it.

So I can verify that and actually have it. Okay. Right. Yeah.

And then he said, you know, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know.

But for me, it kind of does come easy sometimes and sometimes it doesn't. Like, for example, a few years back, my dad, actually, there's plenty examples of my dad. My dad, you know, doesn't have the greatest of health or he didn't, you know, back then. And he would sometimes have heart attacks, right?

And thankfully, thank you to the doctors and whatnot, but he would survive them, right? He, you know, he would, there's literally a time where he was having a heart attack at home by himself and he straight up drove his himself to hospital, like while having a heart attack, you know what I mean? And that's like something that you probably should never do. Yeah.

You know, like you should just call 911 immediately and wait for assistance, you know, but then he straight up his drove himself. And to me, that when I see that and he survived, you know, like again, thank, you know, thank for the doctors, like the doctors obviously had a big part in helping him and whatnot. Yeah. But at the same time, like the fact that he was able to drive still and make it there in time, that's when I see like, oh my goodness, like God was there helping him and guiding him, you know what I mean?

Yeah. And then again, like another thing. This stuff too could just be coincidence and whatnot, but it's like a very, very like crazy coincidence. Again, for example, with my dad, like three years back, he had a major stroke.

He had a ruptured aneurysm and it just so happened that like during this time, my mom was working morning shifts, which meant she would kind of leave pretty early in the morning. But for whatever reason, on this particular day, she decided not to leave early for whatever reason. Okay. Like she had no explanation to it whatsoever.

It wasn't because her car was down. It wasn't because her work told her come in later or whatever. She just didn't want to go in early. And she was there when my dad starting to feel like when my dad was starting to feel bad and like have these headaches and all that stuff.

And he started to have a stroke. So she called now and went immediately. And another thing was my mom was scared and you, his doctor was at a certain hospital and told the paramedics like you need to drive him to the hospital. But the paramedics telling her saying like that's not our job.

We're legally like binding it to take him to the nearest hospital, which was, um, this other hospital, which had none of his doctors, right? And I'm almost, what the heck? Okay, fine. Whatever.

Thankfully, though, again, like this hospital had a helicopter pad because he needed to be transferred to Stanford, which was like an hour away from where we were living, right? Like driving or an hour and a half of flying probably like 30 minutes, right? And the fact that that place had that helicopter pad and the doctors there at that hospital knew exactly what was happening to my dad, they needed to rush him over to Stanford to pretty much save his life, which they did. Like that hospital and the San Pro hospital, again, the doctors work all that stuff like saved my dad's life.

But it's like all these small little coincidences, like, you know, the fact that they're like, no, we can't take them there. We're going to take them to this one. If they took him to the hospital that my mom wanted them to take him to, which had no helicopter pad, they would have to drive all the way to Stanford to take him and you probably wouldn't have made it. You know what I mean?

So it's like stuff like that I'm just like, like, oh my goodness, like God was definitely helping out somewhere, somewhere during those times. You know, and then the third example that I have for you, and this particularly between you and again, I don't want to call you out on yourself, but I'm just going to say it anyway, is when you had your car accident. You know what I mean? Like you were driving, minding your own business, some idiot on the road cuts you off and you slam between two trucks and your car gets totaled, but you're completely fine.

You know what I mean? Like there probably is a scientific explanation to it as to why you're okay. Obviously the car had good safety measures and all that stuff. But again, like, dude, you survived.

You know what I mean? Yeah. Think of that. I'm like, God was on your side that day, you know?

So it's just like stuff like that. Like I guess when it comes to things where it has an explanation and probably does, but I can't see it right away is when I tried to believe in the higher power and think, okay, God must have had something to do with it. But then at the same time too, it's like, like even though I do believe in God and am religious, I don't like it when other people try to like shove that religious thought down everybody. You know what I mean?

Yeah. For example, and it's like, I don't know if it's like hypocritical of me to say, maybe it is. I don't know, but it's just sometimes like, for example, when that whole thing happened with my dad, my mom just went around praising God, you know, was like, Oh, God helped us. God saved him.

God, there's got that, you know, like everything. But it's like, like again, I say, you did help him, but at the same time it was the doctors, you know, the doctors literally saved his life. Like their work that they did and all that stuff, the pilots that drew like through the helicopter, like they saved his life, you know, like God had help probably. Yeah.

But the doctors were the ones that saved his life. It's just like sometimes when people just automatically give God all the credit, I'm just like, okay, come on now. You know? And like kind of on that note, because like, so our moms are sisters.

And so I kind of get what you mean, because like my mom has this habit of if things go wrong, like she like turns to her faith, which isn't inherently again, that's not like a bad thing, but it is aggravating when it's like, when it's something you can do, like it's within your human control to do something. Right. Yeah. And it's just like, I think because I've seen that a lot growing up, it that's kind of what turned me away.

And then like, I don't know about you, but like I spent time on the internet growing up, right? Like, when you're a kid on the internet back then, it was like the wild, wild West, right? Like it was basically unregulated, right? Yeah.

Like, other than like, are you over 18? Yes. Like that was like the only barrier to pretty much anything, right? And so like, you know, when you're on the internet like that, you get exposed to like different like things on there.

And so like when an OG YouTube like OG YouTube was like not as like regulated as it is now. And so I remember like watching like these videos against like, but like science, not Scientology, but like creationism versus like like science and like, and stuff like that, the whole great, the whole, the whole debate between like like science versus God, right? And so like in those comments, you know, there was some nasty things said that kind of like, you know, made me question my religion, right? So I guess my question to you is though, like, did you ever, one, has anything like ever shake in your faith like that?

And if, and two, when you hear people talk about, I don't know if you like look into that stuff, but I guess if you hear people talk about like how religion is just like a form of control, blah, blah or whatever negative things they say, like, does it, does it bother you at all or like religions, a form of what control or something? Just like something negative, right? Like where it's like, oh, like, oh, you're sheep if you believe in like, you know, God or whatever. Does like, does basically, does that stuff bother you at all or?

No, I don't think so only because I have the mindset to kind of just, again, push things away, which is like, I have your role, you know, I just avoid the problem. But no, I don't know. That's a good question. You know, and I kind of have to think about it.

I don't think, well, to answer your first question, no, I don't think there was ever anything that kind of shook my belief in religion. Like, even with the whole, and this is not a joke or anything, but like a whole scandal with priests and all this thing, like children or less of them. Look, I was an alter person, okay? And for the thing that don't know what that is, those are the people that stand up with the priest that hold the book, hold the candles, do all the stuff for the priest during Mass.

I was that for four years, okay? Like literally eighth grade or no, four years? No, longer than that. Pretty much from eighth grade to high school, like end of high school.

I was an alter boy. And never, not once did I ever experienced that, did I ever see that or anything like that. You know what I mean? I'm not trying to, you know, just leave to that.

Right. There has been many proof in many cases to that. But even when that was coming out, I wasn't like, oh my goodness, why would God allow this? Like, I don't know.

I just never really saw it like that. And I don't know why, to be completely honest with you. Like maybe it is because I'm kind of selfish. Like I only really just thought about myself in my situation.

You know, like it was happening to me. I'm fine. But like, that's a bad joke. Sorry.

But like, yeah, I just never really saw it like that. And there was nothing that shook my faith in God. Again, there's many things that strengthened my faith in God, which was examples that I told earlier. I do, when people say religion is a form of control, like I get that, I see that and I understand that.

But again, because I don't feel so controlled by it, because I still do make my own decisions, like, oh, no, I don't go to church every Sunday. You know what I mean? Yeah, neither do I. I don't, I don't follow that role.

Like, I don't follow that role. You know what I mean? And I'm not, I'm not here. Blurring out my religious beliefs to people saying like, if you don't believe in God, you're no good.

You know, I don't necessarily see it so much as a form of control. It probably is for a lot of other people. But I think also just because I'm a decent human being and I respect people that I don't go to quickly judge, you know? So is that kind of answer your questions?

No, I don't answer your questions. No, you definitely did. I mean, like, fuck, I was gonna say, you know, my mom made me go to like, like Sunday school is when you first get like baptized, right? And then she made me do the thing where you become an altar boy, because like, I think we visited you once summer and then when we came back to Vegas, she made me go back to like, the church school thing and I had to go there on Wednesdays.

Did you ever get confirmed? Yeah, I did. Yeah, your dad was that my thing. Okay, so you've kind of gone through the Catholic stuff, like, conversation.

You've been baptized, obviously. Yeah. There was like, to be honest with you too, like growing up, like I was, I wasn't like a super Catholic, right? But I did follow the church.

Like, I knew he was about to Vatican and everything like that. And I'm kind of on that note too. Like that's kind of what bothered me sometimes was like, not the current Pope, but the Pope before him. Like there was a bunch of stuff saying like, like, because so one of the things was like, priests were supposed to have like, vows of poverty, right?

Like, they're not supposed to be inherently like wealthy. But it's like when you look at like Catholic bishops and stuff like that, they're like how you know, gilded out with like jewelry and stuff. I'm sure, I mean, jewelry is like putting it lightly, right? I'm sure those are like religious ornaments and things like that.

But it was just like, it is the whole contradictory thing. And just like, and because I guess I always had this propensity, like propensity, like this notion of, oh, so if you're part of this thing, there are these rules. Like everyone has to follow those rules. Like it, like I just couldn't register why some people had to follow the rules and like other people didn't.

So yeah, I don't know where I was going with that. But do you, would you ever like, do you ever see yourself like changing religions? Like, no, no, no, I really don't. Just because this is my opinion.

It's right. Yeah. It's wrong. No, no, no.

Well, I was kind of going towards that. Not that particularly, but no, I was going to say again, this is going to be sound hypocritical. But you know, I had read up on other religions. Like I had a friend who, who's Mormon, right?

And like he would tell you what he would do under his religion. For example, on Sundays, all day was church. Like all day was mass. Like it was literally a seven hour mass.

And I would ask that I'm like, what? Because he would straight up tell us like, hey guys, if you guys want to hang out, don't ask me to hang out on Sunday. I'm at church all day. I'm like, who does that?

He was like, one, it's my religion. I'm like, why? And literally one of the, like during those seven hours, one of those hours is a moment for the kids to hang out and get to know each other because, and he should have told me this is coming from him. Okay.

Again, he might have been lying. So don't call me on this. But he was like, it's literally so that we could find a partner like to marry. So that we could marry within our religion.

And I'm just like, what? For real? He's like, yeah. At least it's like the dating game, you know?

Like, you know what I mean? Like, like maybe not so much when you're like 12 or 13. But like if you're like 16, 17, 18, you're getting up in there. Like, you know what I mean?

Like it makes it easy a little bit. And it's just like, I don't know. I don't think I would ever switch religion is just because if, okay, if I'm being completely honest, yeah, I probably wouldn't want to do some of the things other religions do. Like, if I'm being completely completely honest, okay?

And it's not like they're bad things. I just personally want to do them. And I feel like being Catholic, at least our version of Catholic is probably like the easiest thing for me. You know, being the person that I am.

Like, I feel like me being, yeah, like, honestly, for me being Catholic, I feel like it's the most coastal one to do, you know, the other religions are very and again, I'm not saying any other religion is wrong. And what they do is wrong. Like, if you have your own religion, by all means do it, you know, but I just think a sub of them are a little harsh. I'm like, whoa, that's too much of me.

I can't do that. You know, so that's it. I actually, I do know someone who converted religions because they married into or they married, you know, different culture and they had obviously a specific religion and they converted for their spouse. So I was like, wow, that's cool.

Like, I, you know, I get props to that. Yeah, no, definitely. And I think, like, I think, oh, not to get too savvy, but like, it's easy to throw the word like love around, right? Like, you can love anything, or anyone can say it, right?

It's like, it's nice to see some like concrete action with that, right? Like, so if you say you love someone, like saying it and then doing something to kind of like that reinforces that, like that's cool to see, right? So I mean, in that sense, it's always pretty cool to see like someone, because that's a big thing for some people, right? Like, that's a huge like identifier for some people.

Yeah. And so what's funny is one of the things from the videos that we watched yesterday about marriage is there was this couple that was married, I think, out of high school or something like that, or like, even out of college. They're married for a while, but they got to a point, like, they had kids and anything, and they got to a point where, you know what, this marriage is not working, we should get a divorce, right? And before they got the divorce, they went to some priest or something like that to like talk to him and tell him everything, and the priest pretty much just made them tell him like, why do you want to get divorced or not why?

But like, just let the couple speak, right? And they started just to kind of bash on each other. They're like, well, this person's done that, this, that, like, he doesn't do this for me anymore, like, all this stuff, right? And then in the end of it, the priest asked them, like, look, I hear both of you, I hear what you're both saying, but let me ask you this, like, what, like, that's what you all think marriage is, but like, what's God's plan for marriage, right?

Like, this is why we had to watch these videos, because it's for the church. But, and they were, you know, of course they both didn't know any answer that, right? And the husband was like, all right, you know what? Because the priest says, go home, answer those questions, then come back to me.

So then they go home, the husband like pulled out the Bible, starts reading it, right? And like, he learns all this new knowledge about like God's plans for marriage. And then pretty much at the end of it, he was saying, like, you know, your whole life, like society kind of molds you, right? Like, like you said, love literally can be anything, like you could love your computer, you could love your dog or whatever, right?

Like the word love gets pushed around everywhere and is used pretty much for anything. But, and because society kind of molds you and shapes you, like, your whole life, pretty much, he was saying is like, it's always been about you, what do you want to do, like, even when you're in high school, like, what do you want to do when you go to college? What do you want to study? What do you want to become?

How many children do you want to have, right? Like it's always been about you, you, you, you, you. Like, the whole point of marriage is that once you get to that point, it's not about you anymore. You know what I mean?

Like, that's what their problem was. It's always been about themselves. It was never about each other, you know, and it was like, that part kind of struck to me. I was like, whoa, like I never saw like that.

That's so freaking true. You know, that's fucking dumb. Come skip. It's true though, you know, like, even when I was, um, or like, even now, now that I'm engaged and I talk to certain people, they're asking like, oh, what do you, like, I say, what do you guys want to do?

But I know they're like, they're still saying, what do you want to do? Like, how many kids do you guys like do you want to have? I'm just like, me personally, I want to have three. My family has four, three max, two, like one of each, one of each gender.

So at least five. No kidding. Man, you know, like, it's fucking zero. Yeah, but that's because that's another topic for you.

You have some deep-seated problems. No, but like, I don't know. You just woke. I'm more woke than everyone.

I'm just kidding. No marriage is definitely like a such thing. It is. Yeah.

Well, and kind of going back, do you feel like, and be honest with me, do you honestly feel that you are in a better place because you don't believe in God? Like, do you feel better than some other people who probably believe in God? Honestly. Yeah.

Sometimes. Why? Because so. I know it's not a question.

You know, it is a. So the reason why I feel like I'm in a better place than some people who do believe in religion or who do believe in higher power, right? Um, is that I feel like I can, I have accountability for myself. Like, I feel like, if something bad were to happen, right?

That's just say, like, I lose my job and then I have to find a new one, right? And like, I'm kind of like, I'm, there's like a sense of urgency there, right? I feel like in that situation, I wouldn't like, so okay, this actually did happen. I lost my job in January and I was unemployed for about two months.

And like, I knew that I need to find a job quickly so I could pay my rent, like, keep my shit together, right? And I guess because I didn't rely on God, like, just like, I didn't leave it up to the universe. I felt more prompted to do, like, I felt more prompted to do something about it. Now that isn't to say someone who believes in God who gets unemployed, just not going to do anything about it.

I'm sure that's not the case. Right. But like, because of that sense of urgency, because I kept thinking like, it's, it's all on me. There is nothing here.

There's like no higher power. There's nothing that is like preventing me from getting a job. The only thing that's preventing me from getting a job is myself and my mindset. And so, like, again, because of that, like accountability or that sense of urgency, I push myself.

And so I've developed this, like, yeah, like the sense of self-reliance almost like no one's going to do what I wanted. No one's going to do anything for me. Like, I'm going to have to take care of myself, right? And so, like, again, I isn't to say people who believe in God, like, are like, codependent or incapable of like taking care of themselves.

But yeah, it's because of that, like, sense of like self sustainability, I guess, or that self-reliance, like, whatever happens is because of me. So like, I need to be on top of my stuff, right? I will say that, like, also, I think sometimes, man, this is my offense a lot of people, but sometimes I feel like religion can interfere with like certain decisions that are otherwise like more or less quote, quote, quote, quote, common sense. I'll have a catch-flick for that.

But what I'm referring to is like vaccinations, right? Like, like, like the whole like anti-vaccine, like, it's been debunked. Like that's been scientifically proven that that's not true. Like, right.

It was like, well, like seven independent studies done within, done independently of each other, all kind of corroborated the same information that basically getting a vaccine does not cause like certain illnesses, right? Mm-hmm. Yeah. The fact that religion is used in that sense, or in a sense to like, strike fear into people, like, oh, like, you know, God doesn't want you to put like chemicals in your body, blah, blah, or whatever, right?

Be it from whatever religion. But it's like, okay, maybe, but like, do you also want to like fucking die? Probably not, right? Like, here's an observable truth that like we have seen and have measured for like time now that like, if you get a vaccine, like, like you would be healthy, right?

I'm sure there's more that goes into it, I'm sure. And I don't want you to catch flag for it. But in a general sense, that's like kind of how like a science works, right? There's a theory, a test theory, we observe what happens, and then we can come from the point to a conclusion that's like basically how that shit works, right?

So with that, that ultimately leads to like critical thinking skills or like where you can like rationale like, okay, something's happening, here's what I can do about it, here's what I can't do about it, et cetera, et cetera, whereas I feel like religion sometimes can just be like, ah, well, you know, it's up to God. So like, and you better be on his good side. It's like, oh, fucking, no, like that again, you know what I mean? Right.

Let me kind of cut you off there because like I get what you're saying about the same time, like who you don't have to say who but like where, where have you seen this? Because I mean, I guess for me, I haven't really seen too many of my particular religion saying anything about God in regards to the vaccine, like, oh, God doesn't want me to take it. So I'm not going to take it. You know what I mean?

Like, I don't like I got the vaccine. Yeah. I got the vaccine, you know, and we're very religious and so is her parents and they both got it. That's why I'm just kind of like, I don't know, like where, where are you seeing it?

Because I don't see it. You know what I mean? In particular to like the whole vaccine thing was like in particular like medications and stuff like like they're say this is this goes. So this goes the same with like people who don't believe in God.

Like there's this very much like, oh, let me start that over. Yeah. So like people who believe in God, right? Not coming from any particular denomination.

I think it's fair to say that there's a certain percentage of them that feel like, oh, because I have faith or whatever. I science like is, you know, science can be wrong and so I'm just gonna stick with my faith. And then like, yeah, I get that. Like, I've definitely seen people who are like, you know, feel sick and just like, oh, I will just pray.

And it's just like, dude, yeah, come on. That's it. That's it. Exactly.

But conversely though, like people who don't believe in God, they're like, oh, like I'm gonna just take a bunch of pills and blah, blah, and then fucking, you know, like, you know, just you know, do everything that they can. But then they end up doing too much, right? And like just leads to some other shit. But like, basically my thing is like, there needs to be a balance, right?

Yeah. I feel like so many people get caught up in their own thing, but they automatically label whatever is the opposite of what they believe in as like, wrong or like, oh, because you're like, because I'm not really just an or because you're really just and I'm not like, I'm like, I'm part of the issue or like, I'm like, I'm problem. It's like, no, like at the end of the day, too, like people are gonna do what they're gonna do regardless, right? Mm hmm.

So, I don't honestly don't know what we're, what I was trying to do. I don't know. I don't remember either. I don't remember so bad.

Okay. Well, let me, I remember what you were talking about. I don't remember why, but going back to like, you weren't talking about, oh, now I remember the question, I asked you if you feel better than some people because you don't believe. Oh, yeah, definitely.

Yeah. So, I'm just better than most people in general. Like, I'm just a guy that avoids everything, right? Yeah.

I never think because everyone isn't worth paying attention to, you know, that's just all right. Well, I'm about to drop some hard, no, not knowledge. I'm about to make you kind of uncomfortable right now. So let me ask you this because when you were talking about that, when you were saying, because I have the ability to understand that I have control over my things, I would be quite honest with you.

That made you sound very, very selfish. You know what I mean? In a sense that like, oh yeah, because, and you, you did, you know, you, you put out some examples out there like, or not examples, but you, what's it called? That's the word, what's the term?

You said, you're not saying that all religious people don't, you know, aren't self-sufficient or whatever, which is true because I'm religious, but I still know that I have control over things that I need to do. For example, you didn't have a job, right? And you knew like, I'm not just going to pray to God and he's going to give me a job. Like, I need to do shit.

Like, I know that. Like, if I, when I didn't have a job, you know, when I was right out of college, I wasn't like praying to God every day and then not applying to jobs thinking God's going to give me a job, you know what I mean? I still applied to jobs. But I think for me, because I am religious, I think knowing that I can talk to God and be like, God, I just applied for this job, please, there's anything you can do, you know, like, just, that just made me feel secure, I guess in a sense, but I wasn't, it didn't make me feel like, oh, because I prayed to God, I'm for sure I'm going to get this job.

Like, I, again, I still did all the things I needed to do to make sure I got a job, you know, I applied, I answered questions, I filled out resumes, all that stuff, you know what I mean? And I guess my thing to you though is what's going to happen when you try to get into a relationship, but that person's religious, but you really, really like this person, you know what I mean? Like, are you going to tell them that you're not religious? Oh, yeah.

And if you, okay, so then what if they tell you, oh, then we can't be together? Yeah, that's rough, you know? I'm sorry you feel that way, but, um, this is like the love of your life. Okay.

Like you, you truly believe like this is the person, like you finally found the person that you want to marry, but they tell you because you're not religious, they won't marry you. Yeah. So I guess, I guess to clarify, like I'm not so hard pressed against it, right? I'm not hard pressed against the idea of, of like going to church and stuff like that.

Like, I'll be straight. Like, assuming it's a love of my life, but she was like, yeah, like, I'm really just all go to church. Whoa, whoa, whoa, okay. Do you want me to go with you?

Like, yes or no? Yes. I'm going through the motions, right? Now, respectfully, like, am I going to believe at the end of the day that whatever it is being preached, probably not.

Right. But at least I myself, I'm willing to make the effort and like, you know, there is a certain comfortability in that of like going to church or having, you know, like a routine that or like by praying or something, right? So I guess answer your question though. It's like, yeah, I am open to it.

Like, conversely, the same question could be asked to them, right? Like, okay, if your partner isn't, if the love of your life isn't like religious, would you really want to force that kind of lifestyle into them? Like, why is it that it's a requirement for you and that they, like your partner has to abide by it? Right.

You know, like, like, uh, for example, you know, it's probably not the best topic to bring it up, but bring it up on, but like porn, right? Like, is it, is it fair for your partner to be like, oh, don't watch porn? To an extent, sure. Yeah, probably.

But also at the same time, it's like you as an individual though, that's like, that's your body, right? Like, that's your private time, whatever, whatever you do in your private time, that's your private time, right? Provided it's not like illegal and shit like that. Okay.

I mean, it's, it's the same principle, right? It's like, is, is just because one is morally better than the other, so to speak. Does that make the one that's morally better by a general standpoint of society, the right one? Okay, let me throw, let me throw a wrench in there.

Let's say someone believed that seeing other people was okay. Is that morally okay? Like, you know what I mean? Like, it's kind of, it's kind of the same example to you.

Like you were saying like porn, for example, what you do in your private time to your private time, what if your partner, what they do in the private time is go see other people? Are you going to give them the same sense of flexibility? You'd be like, you know what, what you do in your private time to your private time? Right.

Know what I'm saying? Yeah. So I mean, there is a degree of difference there. Like it's always going to be on a case by case basis, right?

Okay. But I think the consistent theme there though is that just because one might be morally better, or is perceived to be morally better than the other option doesn't automatically make that moral option the correct one, right? Like, it's the whole like, I don't know. I think if you're in an exclusive relationship and you still think that seeing other people is okay, I think that is morally wrong.

I think the other choice is morally better. Right. But in your initial question though, that aspect of the relationship wasn't there. Was it just if you're seeing someone?

Now the situation changed. Now you just said it was an exclusive relationship. So like, there are. Well, I mean, I thought we were on this.

Like, of course it's going to be an exclusive relationship. Where's we're talking about like the love of your life? Like, that should have been there the whole time. Is what I'm saying.

Right. What I'm pointing out though is if you were to look to look at this like objectively, right? Be it your love of your life or like religion or any kind of like other situation that can kind of be similar. Like the consistent theme is that just because one option might be perceived by society or yourself as the morally better one doesn't automatically make that the right choice.

Like the train track situation. So there's a there's a train track and you have to pull over. But on one side tracks is one person, the other side tracks is five people. If you don't like pull the lever, all of them are going to die.

So who do you choose? Right? It's like either way you cut it. The different parts of what like the different parts will always fit different parts of the argument.

Right? You can argue that, oh, if you save the one person, you're saving more lives. Right? But it's like, what if that one person didn't do anything at all and they're in the circumstance?

So now they have to pay that price for five people. How's that fair? Right? So I mean, there are gonna be situations in life where what you think is morally right for you might be, but just because it is doesn't make that the right choice.

Okay. And you know, that being said though, it's like this is this is where I feel like people who are religious will they'll have a clear conscience with this, in my opinion. Because it's like, I think by having that faith in like in a higher power, like they're able to make decisions that like whatever decisions they do make, they can reconcile with whereas like the whole again, the train track situation, right? If it were me, I would pull it so that the one person dies.

I would doubt it out. I would save more lives. And if a religion person made the same choice, I think what you'll see though is the consequence of me versus them would be completely different. I feel like the other person might be okay because they'd be like, well, I acted according to my faith, right?

But like with me, I acted according to my logic and like logically it made sense to me to save more lives. But how is that? Is that justifiable? Does that make it more righteous because the logic was there?

Some would say yes, some would say no, but me as a person because I don't have that higher power to really guide me or dictate that sense of my life, like I would struggle with it. Whereas someone who did would be like, well, you know, I acted according to my faith and I'll pray for myself or like I'll do something, right? Yeah, I mean, I don't know. That's kind of tricky to me just because I think also because I'm trying to think logically but also with my faith and I'm just trying to figure out where in my faith does it say that more lives are better than, you know, like because you were saying like if it was you and a religious person and you guys both decided to kill the one dude aside from the five people, like, and you're saying because of the religion, that's why I decided it but because of my logic, that's why I decided it.

Like where in their religion do you think they would decide to save five than one? You know what I'm trying to say? I think they would probably think logically too, not necessarily based off their religion. I don't know.

That's where I'm kind of getting confused. Well, let me clarify that a bit. I mean, maybe they might have used like logic in their decision making. I was talking about the after effects of making that decision is what I was getting at.

So like after the decision made is made, I would struggle with what I just did for sure. Right? Well, I mean, I think anyone would but like I think I would trouble more compared to a person who had a faith because that person of faith, you know, when they made that decision be it biologic or whatever, there is some like someone or something out there that they can like essentially reach out to you, right? And they can receive some sort of justification or not, right?

From some that one person or that one thing. Now whether that justification is valid or not is a different conversation. But whereas if I did it and me struggling with consequences, like who would I reach out to? Right?

Like I could be your family. Me, bro. You talk to me. You talk to people that love you.

You talk to people that love you. You know, it's not just about God, you know, just because they're religious and they have God to turn to. I'm sure they still turn to their loved ones first. You know, I mean, I think they would still go to somebody physically to deal with that turmoil, which I think you can do too.

Right. No, definitely. But like I meant like purely in the religious aspect, right? Because that aspect doesn't exist.

I would have to go to my family. And you're right. I should or anyone should in that situation. Right.

But because that religious aspect doesn't exist for me at the moment, it's like I would have to reach out to family or I'd have to reach out to another person, etc, etc. Right. And there's nothing inherently wrong with that. But you know, there is that again, as human beings, we're programmed to question things.

Like we're literally programmed to do that. So I guess in that sense, because we are programmed to do that, I would do it more often and I would question the credibility of whatever is being said to me, right? There's a someone of faith who could rely on the religion and you know, they wouldn't ask questions. Yeah.

Yeah. No, that makes sense. I get it now for sure. So then for you though, I guess sort of asking you a similar question that you asked me.

Is there anything that might shake you to believing God? Oh, yeah. Like, well, okay, I don't know about. Okay.

So to clarify, like when people say God, I always think of it, you know, like a dude in the sky. And like personally, I feel like that's hard to believe for me, right? But like whenever I do get close to religion, it's always more of a spiritual thing. Like I've always been closer to like, like spirits almost in the sense of like, I find myself more likely to like be inclined to believe that than some dude in the sky.

Right. So what's the difference? So sorry if you can hear the backing. Like, okay.

The easiest way of talking like spirits from like Avatar last airbender. We're talking like, go. Like what we're talking about? Like kind of like, well, okay.

No, I need to give you a bit of a cultural lesson first to explain my point of view. Okay, guys. So no, no, seriously. All right.

Culturally before the Spaniards came to the Philippines, do you know what type of religion we had? I actually know I don't can you really do not please during a recording? Thank you. Sorry about that.

No worries. So our ancient native. I don't know yet. Yeah.

Ancient native Filipino before this manures game, they had a religion called and they had a religion of animism. So animism basically is that there was a belief that every living thing had like a spirit to like the trees, the rivers, nature, et cetera, et cetera, blah, blah, blah, blah. So mine isn't as primal like that, but I do believe in like, like you, you, I think you heard me say something similar to this, but like I believe in the spirit of things, like in the spirit of friendship, right? And the spirit of like being civil, I'll say something like that.

And what I'm often referring to is like, there's this intangible thing that drives people. Sometimes. And I myself try to pay versus what she's laughing at. She's trying to, she's trying to fucking scare me.

We're literally in the middle of a fucking recording. I told her once already. Sorry. No, it's cool.

I'm trying to be respectful of that. Right. So, but like to make those long stories short, the person I'm talking to now believes in like crystals and stuff, right? Like, like healing stones and immediately I, at first I will admit it.

I think it's kind of garbage, right? Okay. But there was, there's no inherent harm in me trying to believe in it, right? Okay.

And so like one of the things I did was I bought like these hematite rings. I'm pretty sure they're fake, but hematite or hematite is like this like type of metal that's supposed to absorb negativity, blah, blah, some stupid shit like that. But like I was like, you know what? Let me, let me do it, right?

Let me, let me, let me, let me just try to get it, right? So I got it literally the day I wore one of the rings, a bird pooped on my car and I thought that was like, what the hell, like a bird just shit on my car that's annoying, right? But then she was telling me like, oh, like when a bird shoots on your car, like it's like really good luck because like the chances of it are like, boom, like astronomical or something like it's like unlikely to happen. So I was like, okay, well, whatever, like I kept an open mind to it.

And like literally that week I was trying to get a bacon sauce and an egg wrap for the longest time from Starbucks and they didn't have any, right? But the day the bird shit on my car was equally a bacon sausage egg wrap from Starbucks. Oh shit, yeah. And then on my way to work, like there was no traffic whatsoever.

At all. So I was like, so you were having a pretty good estate. Yeah, and then when I got to work, I had like a really good customer satisfaction survey and I got like multiple compliments that day about how hard I've been working and like how appreciative everyone's been. So like, now was it the man in the sky?

I don't know, was it like fucking the ring? Maybe was it the bird shitting in the car? I don't know. But like, so like whatever it was, whatever spirit it was, like I was like, okay, cool.

And then being in the Philippines in college, like, I don't know if you've ever experienced it. If you ever go to like the forest or the rivers or like anywhere at night in the Philippines, you'll often hear people say like a phrase, right? In the call, right? And basically what the phrase is saying, I'm not going to say it because my accent's horrible.

But basically what the phrase is translated? Yeah, that's what I'm doing. So the translation is you're saying, excuse me. So you're acknowledging the spirits of whatever room or space that you're entering and you're saying, excuse me, because that's their home.

That's their place. Just like as if if I were to go to your house, I wouldn't just go in there, right? I would wait for you to like allow me to enter and stuff. So like, that's if I am going to be religious, that's something I'm going to lean more towards you rather than some dude in the sky who is a thunderbolt and can smite me anytime that he wants.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

You know, I get that. Yeah. Well, I mean, sometimes people say the spirit of God. Yeah, that's true.

I guess that's something you could believe in. I don't know. Because like I'm so used to God being personified, right? Like I'm so used to seeing God as this human being, but like again, personified, right?

But like what if like to me, if I like God quote unquote to me would be like the animals, like, you know, like, like nature and the universe and stuff, like it's not one thing. It's not one thing personified as a super being or a four dimensional being or whatever phrases you want to use, right? Because everything and nothing at the same time. Like, yeah, I don't know how else to describe it without.

So, so is it like safe to say then like instead of it being like God made trees, God made this, God made that it's more so like, no, trees are their own, that that's their own, like they all have their own spirit. God, did they make them? Was that what you're? Yeah.

Like I guess for me, like also, because I'm not sure what this is one of the questions I actually like have in general, like religion is like there seems to be such a focus on as to why like or how things got made in the beginning, right? And like that's cool and all but for me personally, it's just like, I feel like if I had, if I were to be religious, I would want something that would keep me grounded in the moment in the present rather than like off in the future or like thinking about the past, you know, you think religious people do that a lot? No, I'm just kind of saying for myself, like generally that's like if I, if you, if I had a preference for religion, I would prefer, like I prefer, I would prefer religion that kept me grounded, you know, like if I was going to be religious or something. So you don't think the religion we grew up with keeps us grounded?

For me personally, no. Why? I don't know. I always just felt like because my parents would always tell me like God's watching you.

Like why is he always watching me though? He's kind of like Santa Claus, you know, making sure you're being good. No, but no, like that's what they would tell me. Those like like God is always watching you, right?

And like I guess I always felt like that I make you feel grounded. No, it made me feel anxious because it made me feel like I had to be this paragon of morality like this, like I like I couldn't do no wrong. And if I did, I have to immediately beg for forgiveness, which if you do do something wrong, you should apologize and try to ask for forgiveness from whoever, right? But it's like when you emphasize that it's like I do like I have an anxiety about it.

Like I don't like doing things wrong, right? Like I apologize for a lot or I used to apologize a lot. And I'm not saying that's because of religion, right? I'm not saying that's because I was a Catholic or whatever.

But I'm not also saying that it had nothing to do with that. If you think about it, if you were constantly being watched by like a being, right, and they're observing everything you did, and if you did do something wrong, you knew you were being judged. Phrasing it that way, doesn't that just make you anxious? No.

Oh, well, it makes me anxious anyway. No, I think because though our religion does sort of preach that in a sense that like, you know, oh yeah, God's watching you, they also preach though that he doesn't, again, this is why it's kind of, it's not hard. They're kind of hypocritical on themselves. I mean, like they, they preach that he watches everything and whatnot or whatever, but then they also preach that he doesn't judge.

You know what I mean? So that's why I think knowing that, knowing that even though God is watching me and watching all the things I do, even if I do do something bad, I'm like, bro, you got me? You're in judging. You know, I'd be like, it's all good.

That's kind of how I think of it. Again, I'm not trying to be funny or I'm not trying to make religion a joke, but that's just how I am. You know, that's how I see it. So that's why it doesn't make me anxious at all.

I just sort of, I, again, like I believe in God in a sense that I guess sort of just a, I don't know, I think it's because I'm trying to explain this in a way that makes sense. Because I don't know if just saying it for Bae then Lee's going to make complete sense, but it's for me to, what is it? I think it's for me to explain things that I can't explain. You know what I mean?