Hello and welcome to Sitcom Geeks, I'm James Caring. I'm Dave Cohen. And we are going to be talking about a number of comedic things today with a review to finally making a living in situation comedy, ways into comedy in response to some questions that we've had via Patreon, Facebook and Twitter. And also we're going to end up talking about whether it's a good idea to make your own sketch, which is something we've talked a bit about before, but landscape has changed slightly hasn't it not?
Yes. Because you've been watching a few because of the writers Guild on the Hill. I have, I've seen a lot in the last couple of weeks, so we'll come to that a little bit later. The do's and don'ts.
And yes, so let's, but we begin with very sad news. We're recording this a couple of days after the death of comedian Sean Hughes, which, who was a fellow that Dave had got to know quite well. So how are you feeling at the moment? Well, it's pretty much a shock really for all of us.
Sean, 13 or so years that he's lived in England. He was a great stand up and most people, most of you will know him for his show, which was really quite groundbreaking, his channel 4, Sitcom, Sean's show, which was kind of like an extension of all the comedy that he used to do. It comes from the sort of the world of deconstruction, I suppose really, which has always been with us of course, a group tragedy and Shakespeare, whatever, but he took a great sort of joy in that. And there was something about the sort of surreal Irish humour that he kind of brought to that as well.
And yes, so it's still quite a shock. He was, he, Sean for all his success, he never did all the things that most, a lot of comedians do who've been around and well known for a long time. He never did any of the, was always asked to do the various shows, the reality shows and whatever, but he kind of stuck to his own path fairly solidly. I mean, he said when he was 13, he saw Richard Pryor and that was a life-changing moment for him.
A lot of people, Richard Pryor, isn't it, of all people, it's Richard Pryor. And I suppose the only, I guess also a lot of people remember him from Never Mind the Buzz Cocks as well, where he was, in one sense, much more longer running and with a longer legacy as it were. That's actually, you know, our sitcom gigs, particularly, will go back to Sean's show as a sort of much loved, actually rather quickly forgotten the show, that has not been repeated to so as I can remember. The only bits that I can remember loving was how I think there was a bit where whenever the phone used to ring, he used to turn jazz up very loud, and then answer the phone and say, oh, I'm sorry, I have to turn the jazz down.
And then go off and turn the jazz music down because he tried to show whoever was phoning him that he was a cultured person who listened to jazz. And I did re-watch an episode a year or two ago actually, and it was still quite satisfying. But there was the pub that was sort of across the studio from his flat, it was in many ways the Gary Chambling Show, and none the worst for it. No, I mean, he happily admitted that it was quite heavily influenced by Gary Chambling Show, but it was that the premise was slightly different.
The premise was, you know, I'm trying to live my life in my house and have problems with relationships, but somebody keeps trying to put a sitcom on in my house. So that's a... There was a lot of Winter Davis was in the bar, but then there was a lot of things. It was Winter Davis in every week.
I think so, yes. Again, it's a long time since I've seen it. I definitely remember Winter Davis and the Bat of Beans. So, yes, it was memorable, as you can tell, because from what we were saying, in the last few years, I mean, he got various acting jobs.
He was a very good, straight actor. But in the last few years, he kind of went back to doing stand-up shows, and he... Not the first stand-up to do a show about some of the death of his father, and certainly not the last, but the fact that everybody doesn't, it doesn't always mean that they do it well. I didn't see that show, but I know it got very good reviews and very popular.
It kind of boosted him, I think, as well, because he'd been out of the comedy loop for a while. So, he's probably, I think, a bit about three or four new shows in the last few years. He just... he started doing the stuff that he wanted to do.
It's interesting, isn't it? A lot of people go full circle on. They start out doing stand-up because they're funny, and it's a way into the world of comedy. And then they do all the other things.
So he then did his own sitcom, which did quite well. And then he was on a panel game, which presumably was a lot of fairly easy money for as long as he wanted it. And then they discovered that the thing that they wanted to do was the thing they started doing. They go back to...
Exactly. I mean, we talked to Pete Sinclair last week about how Jack Deere after doing Lead Balloon realized that he wanted to go back and do stand-up. Yeah. And he was just actually, you know, I saw Sean literally about two or three or four weeks ago, and he was talking about a new show that he's been doing, which was that he's been...
he gets a group of people, not stand-ups, but people from various walks of life. And they improvise a novel on stage, which sounded brilliant. And I was sounding excited and keen to go to see one of them, but sadly it's not going to happen. So that's Sean Hughes, who we salute you.
We remember you. We are inspired by you, Sean. And thank you very much. And it's very sad to see someone that talented lead us so early.
He got into comedy through the stand-up roots, and this is my tent and segue onto the next way, which is the performance stand-up root is a good way in. Yes. I'm just trying to think of... I mean, Ben Elton used to say that he did stand-up because he wanted to be a comedy voice and he saw it as a means to getting writing work.
So that's one way in. But we've had someone called Beyond Casa Boras. He's actually... well, he's actually...
he's asked a question for us, Christian Crawley. Right. So he says, we know how Dave got started in comedy. Really?
They weren't going about it. Well, I don't know. How did James get in the door? How did that era of comedy entrance differ to Dave's?
And how are these times different and similar today? Well, we'll talk about video in a moment, which was not an option open to either of us when we started at respective times. My way in was very much the radio for writing root, an element of writing performing in that I didn't end the show in 99, called In For The Number of Monkeys, which was nominated for a perrier best newcomer award. And soon after that, I got a sitcom on Radio 4 called Think The Unthinkable.
And I was also writing sketches for week ending and then also I happened to know Sally Phillips, which helped get some sketches on Smack the Pony. And there are all these little... Now, you see all the forums will say, say, James Carey, it's not what you know, it's who you know. Exactly, yes.
You've got everywhere because you're in the news, Sally Phillips. Absolutely, yes. And you know how terrible it is. You know how much easier life is for Christians to get ahead in this secular liberal comedy world.
Yeah, well, of course it's very difficult because you know that Jews control all the media. Exactly. We do occasionally let one or two people in. Yes, that's right.
So that was kind of my way in leapfrogging onto sketch comedy to sitcom really. So sketches is where most people start out, or at least in the past that's been the case. You look at back at the likes of Andy Hamilton and was writing sketches, Richard Curtis was writing sketches with Ron Atkinson, David Renwick was writing sketches for the two Ronies, as was John Sullivan, the only people who don't seem to fit into that kind of mold are the likes of Carl Elaine, who I don't think was writing sketches for anybody, went into a different route. I think there was, well, the radio for route has been a very successful route for 40 or 50 years, I think.
And I do remember certainly 10, 15 years ago, people were saying it's over for radio. The internet is going to change everything. And obviously in many ways it has, but incredibly, radio is just keeps going. Yeah.
And it keeps going in the same way. I think there was a very brief period where there were no shows that had access for new writers, but then good old writers, Guild of Great Britain, kicked up a stink about it. And then so BBC gave in and said, OK, and then various shows came along, which is the current one is of course News Jack, so he's just finished. News Jack follows in the great tradition of week ending and various other shows that bring on new writers.
So radio is still the very strong way in. We're going to talk about news basically in the moment, but just before that, the other thing that radio for, if you look at the last 15 or 20 shows that they've commissioned in the last round, they're all young writer performers who are on the comedy circuit being given the next stage of their career per possible as well. So it's not just the open door sketch shows, but it is also the, if you do a good Edinburgh show, it starts to show a bit of promise. There is not an unrealistic count of getting three, 15 minutes on radio for which you want to pin did and now are doing half hours and that's very good.
And there are other stuff that's in the pipeline from other writer performers. If you get a sketch on News Jack and then you get another sketch on News Jack, you're going to get to the attention of the people who make News Jack and you will eventually find yourself in a room in the BBC surrounded by lots and lots of people whose job it is to make comedy, BBC comedy producers, they make loads and loads of shows. Including the former producer of this show, KG Story, who has ended up writing sketches for News Jack and I think she's getting called in to do a day and then she had a couple of sketches on the actual show. KG Story, we salute you.
Give us a job please. We did to you when you were starting. We took you in. When you were head of comedy in 15 years time, please look on us favorably.
But then there's this News Biscuits thing, Maxine Jones, Patreon as you asked. And if you like to come get some good news, you're listening to this now. Good few minutes in. But do help become a patron and support us because that's fun and it's great for us too.
We'll talk about how we get later. Maxine has joined us with Patreon and she asked about news biscuits which she made her first last year. And now we're going to talk about the news biscuits. So news biscuits are a smooth news site and daily mash which we know for years and years became a TV show this year.
Is it worth writing for these sites? Maxine asks. And quite clearly it's worth writing for things like daily mash and news biscuits. People are taking notice of them.
It's a very hard skill. It's not the easiest thing to do. Especially for the daily mash, there's two or three people who run it and they've seen every version of every story hundreds of times. So you've got to be very, very original.
Find a very original way in writing the stories. So it feels like, oh yes, that's possibly an easy way in. But you do, it's like anything. If you want to try that way, just writing spoof news stories, then really it's like anything.
Learn what the form is. See what everyone else is doing. Make sure the idea you have is original. And again, it's the same as when you're thinking of a joke.
The first joke you think of is probably the one that 100 people have already done on Twitter. So you have to go beyond that and think beyond those jokes. But yes, that is a growing area. But it's a long way between Maxine and the question he's asking about.
She says, why am I flurry of killer tickets earlier this year? Hasn't landed me a sitcom commission. I mean, they're quite a long way apart on the comedy ladder, if you like. And actually, you need to be able to write good one-liners if you are going to be a successful sitcom writer.
Although lots of sitcoms seem to be eschewing having actual jokes in them, but that's a discussion front at the time. But it's just a way of getting, it's like doing a scale for the piano, isn't it? It's just a way of exercising those muscles, getting used to it, getting a start. And you don't know who you're submitting those sketches to, or those links to, those tickers, those one-liners too, because they will end up producing longer-form stuff in the future.
And if you like them, if they like you, they will send for you. And there's quite a lot of, you know, people are sort of forming new comedy tribes all the time. And the producer doesn't have any existing writers to draw on that they have relationships with. They want to find new voices.
They want to find new writers. They want you. They want you. As a new recruit.
So bear in mind that they are looking for talent rather than trying to find excuses for not replying to your emails. So you want to give them every possible cause to get back in touch with you and offer you encouragement, more work, pay commissions, and all that to follow us on. So we've also had a question from Johnny Addy on Facebook, who is a member of our Facebook group, do you like us on Facebook? We asked about transferring from theatre.
He's been talking to some theatre background people. And he is wondering what the crossover is like and whether you want to be sitcom writers explore the world of theatre or is it better to focus on getting sitcom scripts written? We talked a little bit about this. Didn't we last week with Pete Sinclair.
And just that the way that sitcom started originated from theatre, most of the writers were you interviewed Eric Chappell. He started in theatre, lots of sitcom writers started in theatre. And the music was like a one act play for years. And I think it's great if theatre writers are now looking at sitcom because we've lost, I think, some of the skills that were developed.
In the search for jokes, having said that there aren't that many jokes now, but certainly I would say the last 25 years, the emphasis has been on laughs over storyline. Yes, to some extent, although I think it's now the pendulum is from the other way from a single camera point of view. I suppose I'm meaning from an audience to a sitcom point of view because a theatre writer knows about writing from an audience. So yes, in terms of audience sitcom, definitely.
Yes, it seems hard to imagine a world in which a show like Stepto or Hancock would be commissioned now with that level of sort of pay-thos and jokes. And it also feels like Richard Marlach has pointed out that any studio show these days pretty much has to be aimed at a family. And it's not aimed at a family that no one's going to be terribly interested in watching it. And you don't get the workplace studio sitcom like perhaps you used to with a guest prime minister or Black Adder or Vicar of Diggly or these sorts of other things.
So I think it makes it harder for studio sitcom writers anyway and therefore given that theatre writers might not be interested in what seems to sound to be a culturally backward form of comedy anyway, I don't know. But I would argue that one of the missing paragraphs from Ben Elton's lecture about studio comedy is the fact that I don't think theatre is necessarily pushing people towards writing studio sitcoms in a way that they used to. But that's part because theatre has changed, rept theatre has declined and most theatres are now running tribute acts and big comedians off the weekend. Jukebox musicals.
And then stuff is written for the National Royal Court which is obviously a very different flavour too. So the more domestic comedy or fast, the sort of stuff that Eric Chackell would have written that became duty free for example. I don't know whether there is any market for that kind of theatre. And we've also talked about before in previous episodes about how the performers aren't there as well, the people who used to do, the skills that used to be used for repertory theatre so that you'd be doing Shakespeare two days a week and then in the afternoon you'd be doing a matinee for the kids and then you'd be doing a Tennessee Williams play for three days and then you'd be doing a week of Harold Pinsenblatt.
So the kind of skills that actors picked up are not so much there now. Again because we are more geared towards stand-ups getting their shows. So the performers, they're great performers of being themselves but they're not great character actors. They probably did like David Jason of the last generation really.
Yes, yes very much. I would go David Jason before that obviously Ronnie Barker and Leonard Rossiter would be the obvious big guns like that. I guess Peter Bowles and people like that who are still doing theatre and Penelope Keefe and the other folks sort of know, but that's very much from a previous era. I suppose the one French and Jennifer Saunders as far as the world of stand-up goes, they weren't so much stand-ups I suppose were an act but they have some of those skills beyond just playing themselves I think.
If you have written a script though, question from Paul Lamb on Facebook says, should you send a script directly to the BBC or seek out a friendly producer first? I wouldn't send the script directly to BBC unless the BBC writers' room are having a particular sweep for sitcom scripts which they do for a month every year or so. They don't advertise when it's going to be so it's sort of relatively short notice that you find out. But always keep an eye out.
So again the BBC writers are trying to find comedy writers so they want you to succeed so that is worth doing. However, sending it generically to the BBC is always the time and overall he wants to find someone the advice I would give is to find a producer who makes comedy that you like and that you think might like what you have written. Especially if it's radio because radio producers are going to become TV producers. Whereas TV producers already have all their people and they're probably spending two and a half times as much as they are in the day just trying to get the stuff made for the people they like.
So even if they love you they might not have much time for you or as much time for you. But having said that you might send them the right script at the right time that doesn't necessarily get picked up but they realise that you as a writer can help them with something that they have not managed to succeed or they might think this person would write really well for this comedian who I've been trying to work with and it's not quite working. So you don't know what the consequences of sending it to a producer, TV or radio will be. But in the first instance I would always send it to a person rather than a corporation or a company.
Do check up the writer's room site. I can't remember the exact site. There are job opportunities listed and occasionally there'll be a comedy one. So go and look at those as I'm don't look at that page on writer's room occasionally.
Just one other thing that Johnny Adi asked he talks about writing for children's TV and that is possibly an area that hasn't quite been hacked back as much as other areas. I was going to say an area that's been expanded but it's probably stayed the same so it feels like it's expanded. But he mentions that the children's audience sit-com just in his house and that seems to be children's TV seems to be one of the ways another way into writing for comedy. Writing comedy full time.
Although if you're. Having said that there's only really the BBC making comedy and there's maybe two or three shows who use probably between five and eight writers and they already know who four of them are going to be. So there are limited slots but they are well worth investigating. Disney make a bit of stuff I've been talking about because I've been working for them recently.
The only downside I would say is that people that the children's comedy people are very defensive about writing for children and they have convinced themselves that people who write for grown-ups think that writing for children will be easy and they are at pains to point out how difficult it is to write for children to the point where it will feel and has to me at times felt like you are being chronically patronised. So when I pitched a new show at CBBC a few years ago I got an incredibly patronising response to the point where I thought I'll forget it I'm not even bothering this up. So CBBC have a tendency to do that and obviously they don't mean to. They love the idea of working with writers who also write for grown-ups but when it comes down to it they have a bit of a problem trying to let you express yourself but having said that they have parameters which they have to work with and it is a brilliant experience I've written a few episodes of kids shows and I've been very glad for that.
I would look at the CBBC website and you'll see what an incredible range of shows they do. I think the issue is that you're writing for 8-12 year olds or you're writing 5-8 year olds and there are certain rules that you have to follow but it is if something's funny I've been lucky enough to work on horrible histories and though that was aimed at 8-12 year olds it appealed from 5 years old upwards and frequently won awards in adult categories because you're a parody of music stars that the children have no idea. My kids have no idea that they already know what Morrissey sounds like but they know the Charles Dickens song and so that they are. That's a great thing horrible history is not just about teaching history it's also and Richie who writes all the music so you know he's on the mission to teach them about music styles that they don't know about.
Quite often when our kids get a song in their heads we do play them a song which sounds like the one that's being although that's quite hard to do in the case of the Charles II song which starts like an M&M song which is unfortunately not playable to. You don't really want your kids to be hearing about. That's really crazy. So at least you know that's my kids.
But another way of making your material your comic presents fails or stand out is to make your own sketch and things have now never been easier. It's still not easy though. In the past we've talked about should I shoot my own sitcom to which my answer is usually I really wouldn't bother. Making your own sketch is probably worth considering especially if you have a clear filmable simple idea that you can execute.
And a good example of that before we get on to Dave's particular reflections are how animals eat their food sketch for about four or five years old and it's about two minutes. It's about eight really good jokes in a row. Very clear and simple premise and it's probably had 10 million, 20, 30, 40 million hits. So if you get it right these guys are nobodies and I've never seen them since maybe they have a career book.
But so there is potential there it can be done to me it's surprising how infrequently it is done and David's about to explain why because people break simple rules. Well I think first of all I would say it's being done more and there are good ways. The reason why it's happening is good. First of all I mentioned the Writers Guild and the Writers Guild have awards.
We've done shows about the awards for the Best Radio and Best TV and they've got a new award starting this year for Best Online Comedy and one of the main defining points of what constitutes an online comedy show is it has to be no longer than 10 minutes. So we're not talking about big sitcom episodes. And 10 minutes is very long. It is.
Yeah most of the ones I've seen I've seen quite a few. Most of them are in the sort of two to three minute area which is a good area. There's one that I did see that was about 10 minutes it was great. It's easier to make them now.
The costs of making them keep going down and the quality of the equipment to make things is going up. So obviously you don't want to rely on technology. Technology doesn't make jokes but it certainly doesn't help if you're watching something that looks bad and the sound is horrible. So yes although a decent joke will transcend that.
It does tend to. That's true. It is going up and the other thing that's happening and it will have more I think this is feeding to each other. The fact that the Guild is having an award.
Some of the bigger companies like Big Talk and Tiger Aspect are finally starting to use online comedy as a kind of development tool. So now that there isn't the money that there was in say 10 years ago where I was promising a new person will be sent off to write their own sitcom script probably starring them. But they are now loose given a small pot of money to make their own two or three minute film. So there are a lot of performers out there probably not many of them that skilled as writers but new up and coming performers who will be worth tracking down I think.
If you know performers that you like who see them and you see them do like a good 20 minute stand-up set and they're not somebody who's a flavour of the month they're just starting out they are worth contacting and if you like them obviously if you can think of an idea for a sketch for them to do then there's a possibility that you could go with them and team up with them and go to one of these companies maybe and pitch idea or some ideas. It's a good idea because I can imagine if you're an up and coming performer and you're starting to get a few options and you think that you should be making your own YouTube material and someone comes along and says hey I've got a sketch and I'm going to film it and then it's easy to make it look great. And that's quite an easy thing to say yes to. So if you think about it from their point of view as long as your idea is good and it looks like you're going to make something that's going to be going to collaborate in a way that they're happy with I would say that's well worth doing so that's something I've not thought of before but that sounds like it's never been easy to contact people on that because it's different Facebook and everything so well.
If you think about say two or three years ago when people say well if I know someone who knows someone who knows Bill Bailey should I do think I can get my sitcom scripts to him and you sort of think well even if you can what are the chances of him doing it whereas if you happen to know someone who knows Bill Bailey and say look I've got an idea for a two minute sketch which is perfect for Bill Bailey and it'll take him half a day to make he may consider it. I'm not Bill Bailey's agent so I can't say I'm just plucking a name out of the air. Actually if you'd asked the Bill Bailey in 1999 2000 he might have said yes to it. So you want to be thinking who are those people in the future going to be?
Yep and so the main thing of course mentioning the technology is better and it's easier to get older people but that script has got to be good and that's what we're here for I suppose Yeah so you've watched have you noticed therefore that is that the thing that tends to let people down on all the stuff that you've been watching? Mostly yes I've seen some beautiful camera work I've seen some dazzling performances but I haven't always seen a strong script and the strong scripts do stand out they really do. In a way it's worth thinking that the usual rules of sketch is apply you're not trying to make a mini film you're not even trying to make a short film really you're trying to write a sketch and make a sketch and a sketch is about one idea and it is well and then just executing that idea there's a really good one made by Dave Armand where it's called special forces or something I would jump up a link to it and it's all based on one comic observation which I remember thinking to myself I thought oh I've often thought that and never done it where you've got two commando troops one of whom is giving these sort of hand gestures that you see in films and the other one just has no idea what the other one is trying to say to him and so Dave then starts acting out as to what he wants him to do and it just gets more and more ridiculous one really simple idea if you're being brutal you can take 40 seconds out of that sketch and it would still be better but it's one idea executed really well how animals eat their food one idea executed really well this is eight nine jokes on that I think Gapier became a TV series didn't it recently but that started out as a sort of a simple single joke posh person in Thailand hey I want my Gapier yeah yeah and that became a thing and before even became a TV show people were sort of saying that exactly weren't they so yeah I would echo your desire for the script to be typed because I'm always when I occasionally get sent hey please look at our sketch and I always want it to be brilliant so that I can share it and it's normally let down by this is not one clear simple idea that is well executed this is ponderous and slow this is confusing this is well shot but ultimately I don't really know why I'm watching this I read a lot of sketches as well and a lot of sketches I've got a very good idea a good twist but you need two twists you need a twist and your sketch oh what if the paraffee bought was dead then there has to be a second twist but bad example there because I don't think the parents sketch had the second twist of Monty Python sketches always ah we can't think of them so we'll just go and get a lumberjack to watch the two runnies yeah what's the twist oh it's a pub that stops eating beer and now sells mineral water so runs through the list of waters oh and at the end he's drinking part of beer hang on I thought he said he didn't have any beer oh well we've got a water glasses and something haven't we so there you go you know that's kind of a little bit of the end as I used to put at the end but it really helps to have one of those that's the hard that's where the real hard work goes yeah that's if you if you struggling to think of what that thing is that's correct because it is a struggle yeah and I would say until you have that thing you don't have anything you don't actually have a sketch worth filming unless you've got anything because you're not going to think of it on the day it may well be that you think of something and on the day you think of something better but if you go in with something on the day and you don't have it you you won't find it in my experience and last last point on that is listen to the pin sketch shows and listen to John Finnemore's souvenir programme there are sketch shows that have twists at the end of the sketch as well as at the beginning yes even John is now so accomplished that he can get away without doing that but he very rarely does get away without doing it he normally just goes here is the premise of the sketch here are all the jokes on the sketch and here's a loveliness of version at the end and we are done and this is as nerdy as I've become is I actually went through an entire episode of John Finnemore's souvenir sketch show putting the going through all the sketches working out what the first twist was and the second twist and I'd say about 15 or 13 sketches I'd say probably about nine of them had a second twist and four of them sort of sneaked away without it yes cheated yeah yeah so those are our thoughts on sketches and then get them up I just don't be in a rush to put them up I would be absolutely brutal with could this sketch be shorter could this be edited tighter is this grabbing people you've got 10 seconds before they go oh this is boring and if you're trying to build a world or establish something in 10 seconds you're gonna have to work out a way of grabbing them harder and faster and grabbing them both hands rather than striking them gently with one hand this is we're talking metaphorically by the way that's right yeah so to grab strangers that is very much frowned upon so those would be our thoughts and talking of which grabbing people earlier one of the things that we find in our first 10 pages when we have people come through and send us their first 10 pages is that the story doesn't start to about page eight or nine when you really wanted to be starting on page two or three so that's something to bear in mind as we slightly unveil our new 10 page challenge which is going to be for subscribers via patreon yes we did have a 10 page challenge that we ran earlier in the history of the sick convicts way back way back and we did about 40 or 50 years ago we got through a lot the vast majority of them some of them we still haven't quite got to but we are as say we are relaunching now we do probably so this time around we will actually genuinely read them all and we will do a podcast if yes if you are a patreon subscriber so if you subscribe our patreon then then you can send us your first 10 pages and we will do a special episode which we make sure we cover your script and a few others or something like that so that is the is it further inducement we needed to support sitcom geeks go for the 10 page challenge so if you look on the patreon page then you can see about the other amazing benefits including my book writing that sitcom and Dave's book well in fact yes i've got a new book which i'm in the process of doing that which is it's got a new title in fact it's called funny up and it's about funnying up whatever you want to write really whether it's your sketch your timid sketch or your sitcom or your standard material i'm going to be doing some courses as well for writing if you want to check out babecowin.org.uk writing comedy for a living page and details are all there but yes so that's going to be hopefully coming out in the next few weeks well that's an ebook yeah so look out for those and so i think our time is a sketch we've packed a lot into this one so that's all very exciting thank you very much Dave thank you and we will speak to you again on the next episode until then bye bye bye