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Over the past few years, we've seen hundreds of new services launches, cord-cutting speeds up and broadband gets faster all around the world, and the small matter of course of a pandemic has driven all consumers looking for more and more content across smart TVs and connected devices. Coming up later in the show, I'm chatting with Lilla Hurst from Drive, who today published an exclusive report into the new buyers, which is in-depth look at the shifting channel landscape. Now, what's clear is that whilst Netflix, Disney, Amazon Prime, and Women Brothers Discovery steal all the headlines, it's a myriad niche players that are also affecting the industry at scale. We recently spoke to Angus from True Royalty about his Royalty Focus S-mod offering, so I thought it was time to speak with a service who's adopted the AVOD model.
I'm delighted to welcome to the show David Smith, founder and CEO of U-Look TV. Welcome to the show, David. Thank you so much for inviting me. It's a pleasure to be here.
It's great to speak to somebody pioneering this area. Before we get into talking about U-Look TV, you're a really experienced exec within the TV industry. Can you give us a bit about your background for those who don't know you? Yes, of course.
So I've spent the past 25 years or so in content, really. I have worked at ITV in audience researcher work briefly in an agency, spent four years at the BBC, scheduling programmes and media planning, nine years at Sky buying content, and then 10 years at 20th Century Fox, distributing content. And I guess over the course of that time, I've seen a huge amount of change in the industry and in the business of putting great programming in front of audiences. But the fundamentals that is great content finds a way to audiences and it's about how you manage that process that's really key.
And so that's why I'm in this space. I love it and I'm passionate about the content, passionate about the ways of getting content to audiences. And this is a brand new venture and it's brand new era. And we can't wait to get started.
Sounds like you've got the perfect CV for setting up an A-vod channel as a whole. So tell us about the ULook TV offering and who the key audience is for the channel. I guess I'd start with the name of the service because I'm often asked why is it called ULook? And towards the end of our time at Fox, I had an opportunity to spend some time with my team in LA and we were given a talk by Peter Churnin.
And he was talking a lot about the changes in viewing behaviour and environment and so on. And specifically with reference to VOD services. And he said, and this I'll always remember, he said, that the service that cracks how content, how viewers find content, that the service that cracks that is going to be on to a winner. So one that doesn't just serve up content through algorithms and through the way that the platform is built, but the way that it's editorialised.
And he said, if you think about a newspaper, if you're looking at a physical newspaper, you'll draw into a story, but then your eyes draw into another story. And that's the way that you kind of weave yourself through the paper. And I thought about it in an on-demand environment and what that would look like, what would be the translation of that over into VOD. And that's when I came up with the idea of putting up aggregating lots of different VOD buckets so that people could weave themselves in and out of them.
And if they went into one particular channel or vertical, there'd be plenty of content in there for them to play around inside and so on. And I wanted to encourage discovery and that's why I call it ULook. So I want people to look. I want people to treat it as a lean forward experience.
So we are put together in that way. We're put together with that sentiment in mind, which is here's at the moment a space which comprises I think 13 different verticals ranging from classic horror movies through debate, discussion through paranormal through documentaries through motorsport. Quite an eclectic, deliberately eclectic mix of different collections of content that viewers can go to and explore. And the walls between those channels exist, but they're also paper walls.
So some content exists in more than one vertical and we encourage people to kind of spill over from one to the other. So when we say who's the key audience, it's obviously because you've got so many verticals, it's a very broad audience by that definition. You're not sending out to catch any specific core consumer. It's more about everybody, right?
Is everybody that has an interest in whatever content you have on your service? Well, that's right. Because if you think about it from two different perspectives, the first is the advertising perspective and then the second is audience composition. So if you're going to be successful as an Avod service, my belief is that you need to be broad such that you can kind of drive a footfall into the service overall, but specific enough and tightly targeted enough that you can charge a high CPM for an audience that's super targeted to that which the advertiser wants to reach.
And so how you are both broad and specific inside the same service is one of the reasons why we put together the way that we are. But the second has to do with audience composition and when you consider the way in which audiences have been migrating from traditional TV viewing experiences over into OTT, you know, initially you got single digit growth year on year and then it was 10 and then it was 20%. But last year and powered very much, I think, by the pandemic, we had migration of 46, 47% year on year. And when you're seeing migration on that scale, you're going to start seeing a change in audience composition as well.
It's going to start broadening out. It's not going to be just younger audiences and early adopters. It's going to be people who are experiencing this space for the first time. And I think that what they're going to need is they're going to look for an experience that's adjacent to the one that they just left.
Right. So something that looks familiar, something that's been built in a way that they can kind of wrap their head around and go, okay, I understand it. So I understand the way that it's been put together. And I liken it a little bit to a slightly different AVOD evolution in the US, the fast channels Pluto TV, which is the first one in this space, put together a service that was largely a linear streaming service.
And it still is because viewers that they were targeting were those that had just recently cut the cord. And they were looking for an experience that was adjacent to the one that they had just left. And otherwise, here's a big selection of channels. The layout looks like an EPG, doesn't it?
Here's an EPG. Right. You're familiar with how that looks. And so here is his experience that we think is adjacent to that.
And so you look and put together in that way, we are curated, we're editorialized, but we're also easy to navigate. And I think that's the key. And it's a brand new service, isn't it? You literally were in beta until what, a few weeks ago?
Yeah, a couple of weeks ago. So we were in beta from about February through to very, very recently. We all know now, only just now beginning to emerge from that. So it is brand new.
For a TV executive with wide range of experience, as we said, right across all of this audience and scheduling and marketing and content acquisition, or all of the elements that you need to be able to really create this sort of service. What have you learned in setting up U-Lup TV? Is there anything that has surprised you in terms of the process of creating a digital AVOD service? Want to get ahead in digital first content?
The drop is the go-to newsletter for industry professionals delivering insider news, trends and insights straight to your inbox. Navigate the fast-changing landscape of digital first production, distribution and monetization. Sign up now for free at dropmedia.co.uk and stay informed with the drop. The difference between working for a large organization and working for yourself is, I mean, they are obvious.
I mean, it is part of a large organization. If you want something to happen, you can ask for it to be done. It will be somebody's responsibility somewhere in the organization for that thing to happen. And it either happens or it doesn't.
But there is a process, there is a machine, because there are tons of people who show up every day in order to do that. When it's your own operation, it's just down to you and it's just down to your core group of individuals that you gather around you as your team. And so that means that you spend your day doing a million and one different things rather than one thing in great depth. So different to working in a corporate environment.
And it's great. And the other thing that's also obviously different is that if you want to do something, you can do it. If we wanted to launch a paranormal channel, we can do that. If we want to close one down, we can do that.
If we want to go left or right or up or down, that's entirely up to us. And we'll do so in the cause of finding new data points and learning. So we embrace the idea of getting out there and learning as much as we can, because the more data points that we have, the more that we can tilt the service, the more towards consumption and success and so on. And I think it's just a recognition that it's up to you.
If you want to do it, it's down to you. And I thought that was the thing that occurred to me when I had left Fox and when I was thinking about what to do next. This is what I wanted to do, but I recognize pretty quickly that if I wanted this dream job, I was going to have to create it myself. Those are the key learnings, everything that you do, it's up to you.
In terms of ULupTV, have you got investors? Is it your investment? So we've got a number of really interesting investment conversations going on right now, or bootstrafters as well, up to this point. So it's a fantastic time to be having that discussion while we've got a service, while exciting things happening on it.
Okay. And tell us about the distribution strategy for ULupTV. You mentioned it's web based at the moment, so anybody can go and take a look at it easily straight in ULupTV and we'll put a link in the episode description. You're also on Android and iOS.
Yeah, that's right. And due course, we will be on, Firestick will be on Samsung and LG. We want to be as widely distributed as we can be in the UK and Ireland, which is where we are, on all of the free platforms. And that's where I think we need to make inroads, that's where we need to make a name for ourselves, is that environment where the audience consumes content free.
I haven't yet considered the rather thorny issue of integration with pasting platforms, but that feels like a decision that's like a really long way away. So you mentioned how there are a whole number of different channels on the service. How do you compete for content? And what's your content acquisition strategy?
There's a lot of distribution listeners and a lot of listeners in production as well. How do you compete for that content? How does it work from a licensing perspective? Is it pay per view?
Are you in a position to offer advances for content? How does that work? So in large part, we are a rev share only platform. That's born out of necessity, quite frankly, at this point in time.
But happily, there is a great deal of amazing content out there in the world. And we have been super fortunate, I think, to have a lot of it in the platform. I think about 3000 hours of content right now that I've acquired, but also Benedict Stinsard, who is our head of acquisitions, has also acquired for us. There's been a recognition inside the content industry that Avod is a really exciting new opportunity.
But it's not going to exist without stimulation. It's not going to thrive without stimulation. And I think there's been a recognition that by supporting new enterprises in this space like us, that's going to help speed the advent of this new marketplace, which I think everyone will emerge from Avod. And go back to a point you made earlier.
What's really interesting is data, isn't it? And your ability to pivot really quickly towards a certain type of content that will actually, so the data will lead your content strategy, see what works and buy more of it, or make it more visible and make it more visible, right? That's exactly right. And that's the entire point of having a wide range of channels from the get-go is so that we can, you know, we've got lots of data levers that we can pull on.
I think the other point to make is that when we think of international rollout plans as we do, we imagine that when we go into other markets, we would go there with a different service, maybe not entirely different, but with a different mix of channels for a different audience set up in whichever market we go to. So we don't think that having the same service for Europe or MER is the right way to go, because I think it also, you know, that would ignore one of the central points of our thesis, which is we've got to be targeting viewing communities and passion centers and audience groups where we can pull content together and present it to them in a way that makes sense. So it will be a different thing in each of the markets that we go into. Coming back to data, this is going to be a real battleground, I think, going forward in the next few years, when it comes to producers and content owners wanting to understand data around their own product.
So presumably, if you're offering revenue share deals for content, you're completely transparent about that data. So if I'm a producer and if you've licensed six part documentary series that I made 10 years ago, let's say, and you'll account to me what every six months or so or however, and you'll be able to see how it's played, where it's played, and obviously it's about transparency of that data, right? Yeah, that's exactly right. I think transparency of data is central to the whole mission.
And it's one of the appealing things about licensing into it, but if you are a content producer distributor, here is another, you know, scene of data that you can kind of mine. It's very important to us, and I think it's in the longer term, we're not there yet, but I hope that before too long we will be in a place where we will make that data available and talk about it openly and say, this is how many viewers, this show attracted, and this is how many viewers, this channel is watched by. I want that to be part of the conversation. You know, I come from a side of the business where data in the form of Bob figures was a matter of public record and everyone knew how everyone was doing, and it kind of fuels innovation, fuel competition, and I'm hoping that a similar kind of model will kind of emerge from Avod, because I don't imagine it will emerge from ESSOD.
No, no, exactly, and we're not seeing any sort of signs of that. And what I find fascinating is that occasionally Netflix may release some sort of numbers, or Disney might release some sort of numbers and say, this was a hit, but it's like, okay, but we're basing that assumption on you being honest with you. There's no other independent oversight to those figures. So I think it's a bit of an uneven kind of transaction, if you like, when they're not being particularly transparent on 99.9% of how their other shows are doing, and they're not letting the producers know how their content is doing.
And all you know, is it doing well or not? You only know if you get another commission. That information is made available on one person's terms. And that's what makes it, I suppose, less reliable.
In the longer term, our goal is to have our content suppliers have a dashboard right into our backend, so they can see how their content is performing each day. But we're a little way off that. Okay, well, it's a really interesting point to the future, actually, and producers will be wanting to be much more savvy about data and what it means to them. And maybe a data analyst is one of their key hires, as well as a development producer going forward.
Back to content for ULook TV. What content are you actively looking for now? If we've got any listeners who have got relevant content, what is it that you're looking for to license? Very much interested in nature and wildlife programming, but also travel.
And I'd love to have a fashion channel. I want to have a channel that you look great, and I think the fashion would be that thing. We have not managed to find content that's been right for us to kind of fill that channel. So anyone out there with some fashion ideas, please send them in.
We'd be very grateful to receive them. But we are also in the original space. And just a couple of days ago, we announced our first Avod original, which is the Mark Prince Show, the Doctor Prince Show in which Mark Prince interviews wide range of people. From largely from the sporting environment.
So we are in the original space as well. We're taking big steps in there, but we're learning quickly, we're evolving quickly, and originals needs to be front and centre part of our strategy as well. Can you give us any hints as to other commissions or originals that you might be looking for in the future? Are you inviting any ideas around particular genres?
I think if producers looked at any of our channels and thought that they had ideas for original content that would be really specific to the audience that you would expect in the future. Then we're certainly very happy to take a look. We're not going to start turning on millions of originals, taps, because we're quite frankly not yet there, but we are actively looking right now. When we talk about Avod as a whole, it really had a bit of a moment last year, didn't it, when all the VOD viewing went through the roof?
How do you see the Avod market developing from now and over the next few years? Presumably, you think it's very much on the other or else you wouldn't have launched at Avod service? How do you see that the market as a whole developing and competing with SVOD going forward? The market of the business of advertising seeking audiences to be in front of, and then there's the competitive environment.
So there's two parts to that answer. The first one is to take advertising. The programmatic advertising marketplace is only growing year on year and in a major, major way. The connected TV audience is growing year on year and again, very significantly, admittedly from a small base, but very significantly, that's growing year on year.
And so the ability to target specific audiences in growing numbers with ads that are relevant to the audience member that's in front of them, that capacity, that ability is skyrocketing year on year. So in general, you have to think that the Avod marketplace is in good shape for growth. The competitive environment is the other piece. And that is how many services can there reasonably exist in any given market and in what form is that likely to develop?
So in the US, where you've got two, three hundred Avod services, but many of them are actually fast channels. So that's linear streaming channels. I don't know if there's going to be quite that much room here over in this part of the world just yet for two hundred services. I'm not sure that the demand is quite yet there to support it.
But if you look at the underlying factors of growth in the ad in the digital ad market and the number of connected devices that have been used for television style viewing, yes, you've got to assume that there will be a broad enough ecosystem to support quite a few channels. And you can imagine that there will be a certain amount of churn at some point as well with the SVOTs when you when people start to realize that they're actually paying more for five or six different SVOT channels than they were for Sky or whatever other service that they've just cut the cord to. So I guess that's another opportunity for Avod, isn't it, when it comes to consumers just looking around and discovering new channels that perhaps haven't been marketed to them from multi-million dollar advertising budgets? It goes back again to that migration stat, which is if you've got audiences that are increasing in number, but also session length and the amount of time they spent viewing by almost 50% year on year, they are absolutely going to be spilling over into the free space, looking around for content that they don't have to pay for, but which is relevant to them.
That is the opportunity. And now it's time for David to pick his story of the week, the TV industry news item that's caught his eye in the past seven days. David, what's your story of the week? So yeah, sorry, I've got two stories of the week.
Double story of the week. That's good. We always like a bit of variety. That's right.
And firstly and somewhat curiously, you might argue for somebody who's in the Avod space, the story that in the US, Avod viewing, has been off by 10% over the past six months. And then the second story is that more people watched originals in two weeks on Roku than all the time that they spent on the Quibi service. Yes. So when you put two of those articles together, they kind of seem like they're in conflict, but they're not really, it suggests a number of different things.
I think it suggests that the launch of new pay services in the US, you know, Discovery Plus, HBO Max, lots of marketing activity, tons and tons of promotion, tons of new content kind of flowing into that system means that there's competition for eyeballs, right? If you compare it to last year, there wasn't anything like that amount of competition in the S-Vod space. So it's only got more and more intense. And it's, you know, that competition for eyeballs, it's going to steal eyeballs from wherever it's going to steal eyeballs from the traditional environment, but also from Avod as well.
And I think as part of that, you've also got the return to some, perhaps some more pre-COVID style viewing habits where people haven't had perhaps quite as much time to spend in front of screens as well. So, you know, you've got those dynamics going on, but overall, I think it suggests that, you know, especially when you look at that Roku story, it suggests that when compelling content is made available for free, it's hugely appealing. And it's, therefore, a reminder that Avod isn't going to survive by right, but it needs to constantly innovate and it needs to constantly strive to present great content and put that in front of you. And where it does that, it's going to do very, very well.
So it's just, you know, a shot across the bowels, but also it's a pointer towards the future as well. It's why we're doing originals. It's why I think anyone in this space should be doing originals as well. Now is that time the show when I guess gets to nominate their hero of the week and who or what they're telling to get in the bin?
David, who's your hero of the week? Without a shout of a doubt, without any hesitation whatsoever, it is the return of Love Island to our screens on Monday and just seeing the cast members for the next show kind of muses me and delights me all over again. I think it's without wishing to be too profound about it, but I'm going to be really profound. You know, it is, I think that perhaps the book ending of the pandemic, when we started the pandemic, it was just at the end of a love island season.
We skipped last summer and and the winter that followed. We're starting again now with a new Love Island. It is returned to some it's sunny at times. And it's a reminder that we can think about things that a muses or a paul us or stuff that we like, stuff that we hate without worrying about a pandemic in the foreground.
So I think, you know, for me, it's a good time's coming back. Yeah, that's a really good way to look at it actually because when we started Telecast way back in April last year, then, you know, all we were talking about was, you know, big shows getting canceled, you know, key, key shows that were real 10 years ago. A lot of commercial channels were getting canceled left, right and center, which was unprecedented. And you're right now that they're coming back.
It does signal a little bit of return to not normality, but yeah, there's a neat way to look at it book ending the pandemic. We're all for that. It is the return of hope, if you will. And who are what you're trying to get in the bin?
So, okay, this is the story about GB news and stop funding hate and Ikea and Nivea pulling advertising, you know, regardless of, you know, one's view of politics, something, you know, not perhaps the biggest fan of the world. Perhaps the biggest fan of GB news, but absolutely, you know, embrace their right to exist and to seek out an audience and to do well. And I think that the idea that there would be from the get go, that there would be a movement to inspire or control advertisers to remove their support from the channel, which then fuel the backlash coming back from the channel saying, well, maybe we won't accept your advertising even if you did want to come back. I think it's another reminder if we needed one, that the arguments these days seem to be all about polarizing.
It's you're either on my team or you are my sworn enemy. And I find that very depressing. I find it very depressing when something as interesting and worthy of debate as a new news channel should be immediately kind of bogged down in entrenched positions and people kind of weaponizing language over whether it's woken stuff like that. I find that all a bit tiresome.
It used to be shades of gray, didn't it? I mean, news services, whatever you're listening to, they're positioned at some point on the spectrum, but generally, in a democracy, you know, you've got to be able to listen to those and, you know, well, as you've also got the right to turn them on or off, haven't you? Well, you're right. It does feel that today, discourse is so much more difficult to have an honest discussion, whatever your point of view.
Anyway, we'll see how GB news have had a bit of a rocky start, I think, but, you know, they are by their own admission of startup. So it's not the easiest thing in the world to create a new national news channel from scratch. But yeah, it's a sign of the times when brands as well, because brands obviously have their own positions as well. You just wonder sometimes what there's obviously PR value in saying you're not going to advertise against some content as well.
So I think there's a bit of positioning going on there as well. It speaks to the whole issue of identity politics, doesn't it? It does indeed. David, thank you very much for spending some time with us this week.
Really fascinating to hear about U Look TV. And as I say, we'll put a link to U Look TV in the episode description, so you can go and check out the service. And if you've got natural history content, fashion content, and there was some other factual content that you're looking for, how do producers get in touch with you? David, can you email me at David at ulook.tv?
All right, fantastic. Thanks again, David. All the best. Very good luck with the channel going forward.
Thanks so much, Justin. It's been a real pleasure. And yeah, thank you. My next guest on this week's show is a regular contributor to telecast.
Lilla Hurst from Content Funding, Sales and Distribution Business Drive. How are you doing, Nilla? I am very well. Thank you, Justin.
Great to have you back on the show again. And the last time you were on was January for our Real Screen Special show. I mean, we've had no physical markets for about 18 months. How's that all panning out?
And how's this year in particular panning out since we spoke in January? I think, you know, obviously when we spoke in January, I think we could all agree that we were in the midst of very much a doomy-gloomy winter and feeling pretty insecure about where the future was heading in many respects. And I think since then, we've definitely seen a vast improvement in all things. Certainly, I think from our experience, there's been a marked improvement in just the sort of general activity going on in the marketplace.
It did feel quite quiet in January, and things definitely started to pick up from March onwards. I mean, in terms of where we are as a business and our annual targets, we're pretty much on target at the moment. So we do find ourselves having to check ourselves very regularly and not be complacent because you just feel that, you know, anything could change at any moment. But in general, it's been a positive first half of the year.
You say that you were busy in March time. I mean, do you think there's still a sort of a residual cyclical effect, if you like, for MIP TV and MIP comp, in terms of sales and acquisitions throughout the year? Do we still see that being sort of fairly prevalent or a thing kind of smoothing out? Well, it was interesting.
But we saw this year, there was still a flurry of activity that was more actually around the London screenings. And we actually bought a lot of our launches forward so that they tied in with the London screenings rather than waiting until what would have been a virtual or what was a virtual MIP TV. And that definitely worked better for us. And we're really curious to see, actually, if that just has a long lasting impact and that in fact, businesses going forward from next year onwards will be more inclined to launch their releases around the screenings rather than hold them back until MIP TV.
Well, I guess only time will tell. And as we know, many things can change fairly quickly in this current environment. Today, you've published an impressive free report on the new buyers and how the whole content industry landscape is changing. Tell us a bit about the report and why you commissioned it.
We decided to commission this because we felt that we had noticed as a business, a massive uptick in revenue from VOD services. I mean, it's, we're forecasting a 50% increase on last year already. And we've seen that there's been a launch of around 750 new VOD services over the last year of last four years around the world. And it just, we just noticed that when we were talking to producers that they, other than the really obvious S VODs like Amazon and Netflix and so on, there was very little knowledge around other S VOD services and also Avod.
And so, we thought that people would agree with us that 2020 was the year of Avod. And we just thought that, you know, that sort of the producer environment slightly out of step with what's going on in the distribution environment with regards to the sales of their titles and we really felt that it was time to kind of bring indies up to speed with this rapidly changing landscape, particularly because it can be quite hard to navigate in terms of, you know, who these players are, how big they are, what sort of deal models they're working to, what kind of rights definitions they're following. And then we highlight some sort of key insights into the numbers and the opportunities, as well as having some in depth interviews with some of the players. And also we just felt it was quite useful to even publish a sort of glossary of the terms because very often we have producers, you know, literally saying to us, what does Avod mean?
What are the various definitions? So we just wanted to bring some clarity to that whole space. Yeah, well, it's certainly an impressive piece of work. So you mentioned, you know, huge explosion in growth in VOD services 750 or thereabouts in just four years and it's no surprise.
With so many new players and, as you say, Avod, S VOD and different business models, then they're all different. Clearly, they all have different needs. They're all working in different niche areas or some of more generalists. I mean, it's no wonder why many producers can't seem to be across everything in the same way that they are with perhaps the more established buyers and the ways of doing business.
What are the key findings other than that explosion in VOD services? The spend on acquired content has been growing strongly for the past 10 years and actually reached a staggering $38 billion in 2021. And over the next five years, acquired content is going to surpass originals in terms of spending. The growing number of VOD services that we've just talked about have caused a doubling of spend on acquired.
That goes to show quite how valuable the VOD market is. And I think it's staggering. When you see those numbers in black and white, it's just quite extraordinary. When it comes to VOD services, what we've seen over the past few years with the big shiny Netflix, Amazon's and Disney Plus and all the other big services, they're spending a whole load of money, particularly in scripted, but also in factual as well, on big tentpole projects to drive subscriptions.
But I suppose we're seeing that slightly maturing now, aren't we? And more and more of that spend going to deepen the catalogue and the offers of these services. Sure. I mean, so basically when VOD services launch, they drive the acquisition of new subscribers through originals and tentpole titles that they commission, but to retain existing customers, they really require a very large catalogue of older content.
And if you think about the top 10 most watch shows on Netflix last year, only two of them were actually new series and the remaining were library titles, which is very different from the linear environment where library content is kind of filler to to save viewing between new series placed at a peak times in the schedule. So it is a complete sort of flip. And anyone who's been subscribing to Netflix for since the early days, we'll see that now. The beginning, we were all spoilt weren't we?
We got very used to having these very flatty original shows launched on a weekly basis. And whereas now we're noticing there's a much, much greater quantity of library content there that's backing it all up. Yeah. And I suppose that's also a result of COVID pandemic and interruptions on production as well.
Yeah. We'll see this explosion of smaller niche services, we've said like 750 different VOD services launching over a period of just four years or so. Why is that? Why is there been such an explosion in these niche services?
You know, the VOD audience isn't that similar to the DVD or the old fashioned video viewing audience. And you know, that was driven by a desire to find things that you couldn't necessarily find on your regular TV stations. And so if you think about that on a sort of macro level now, niche services are becoming more and more successful because they're serving the kind of view of the world. And so they're serving the kind of viewing desires of people who, you know, they might just want to watch history all day long.
I mean, there's a massive global audience, for instance, for history and they may not feel that what they get here and there from, you know, a bit of BBC and a bit of history channels enough for them. So they're just, and likewise the science community. Likewise, the culinary community. There are people who seek this kind of content out.
And particularly in an AVOD environment, that's very desirable because as a viewer, you're not having to pay for it. It's being paid for in the same way as a commercial channel by the advertisers. So it's not particularly competitive in terms of channel slots for a niche channel to launch. Just going back to what you were saying earlier on about the demand and the type of content that these VOD platforms are acquiring and library content becoming more and more important.
How does that affect producers and for channels? And how does that affect pricing, I suppose, as well? And as you say, windowing, there's so many different variables. So if I'm a producer and I have an engineering show, for example, you know, how can I best use that content to develop a revenue stream?
First and foremost, assuming that the kind of the way in which that particular title comes into the world is through a commission or a copro. The most important thing when you're negotiating the terms for that initial deal as a producer is to not undervalue those rights and to make sure that you have those rights available outside of the original commissioning territory and perhaps even available within the commissioning territory of the organization. So that either you or your distributor can go out and exploit those rights. And then I think secondly, when you're appointing your distributor, it's really crucial to be aware of their activity in that space and to make sure that they are indeed valuing those rights and they're not just chasing traditional linear deals and that they're really up to speed with the various players in the marketplace.
And then I think finally, it's to kind of be prepared to play the long game with it because what we're seeing now is that the kind of the life of a program, a single program or a series is being genuinely extended by this appetite for the rights. And we've recently seen certain titles we've got in the catalogue that hadn't, you know, they're probably quite parochial titles in some cases. So it was always going to, for instance, be quite difficult for them to get a big deal in the States. But we're starting to see is actually that in an AVOD environment, they're doing quite well in the States.
So I think it's just about being educated and also being patient and playing the long game. Now we spoke with David Smith of ULookTV earlier in the show and we can also see some of the huge content businesses like Roku and Peacock and HBO Max betting on AVOD as a business model. How do you see this AVOD sector? You said 2020 was the year of AVOD.
I mean, how do you see it now playing out over the next few years? Well, I think what's been very interesting is that in the past AVOD really struggled to monetize via advertising because consumers had much lower appetite for ads on VOD compared to linear. And so it meant that for an hour of content, you know, very few ads could be run. And so obviously there was a much lower revenue as a whole to the VOD services.
But more recently, that's definitely changing. And I think YouTube has been, you know, shown the best example of that. I think something like, you know, they've seen 50 to 20% growth achieved by very slowly and cheekily increasing the number of ads it has on the service. And also they've been removing the skip functions and the ad free videos.
And I think that was there was, you know, quite a resistance from the VOD audience in the early days to to adverse. There's definitely been a change there. And so I think what we'll just see is people being more accepting of that. We certainly know younger demographic doesn't have much of a problem with it.
And so as a result of that, you know, as you said, you know, whether it be Hulu or Roku or whoever, they'll genuinely start to generate the greater revenue. And that greater revenue will then generate the ability to commission originals. We've got an explosion of services. We've got a lot more money in terms of opportunities for producers to exploit their content.
How should producers approach the future? Because presumably now, you know, if you've got a traditional model of getting one or two networks to come on and commissioning or co-producing a title, presumably you should be coming, maybe considering to come to this from a different angle as a producer as well, with all of these new buyers out there for both new and library content. In many ways, it's not rocket science. It's the same old business of networking.
You know, being being educated, reading as much as possible about the emerging services, talking to the distributors that you work with about the emerging services who they're doing deals with, so that you can really keep a close arm. You know, I think CuriosityStream would be a good example of that. You know, that's a service that's been around for a few years now, but has just started recently to commission originals and is very keen to have direct relationships with production companies. And so I think it's just, you know, it's that crucial thing of just being able to network and, you know, whether you're at a physical market or a virtual one, making sure that you attend the sessions where these services are promoting themselves, talking about what they're looking for and so on, so that you can really seek out those opportunities for whether it be for co-pro or for original commissions.
And use your glossary to find out your MAUs from your UGC and your MVPDs. Yes, indeed. Fantastic. Thanks for coming on the show again, Lilla.
Now that the new buyers report is out now and you can download it for free on Drive's website and also the download section of the Telecast website and we'll put links to both of those in the episode description. Do take a look at that report. It's a fabulous piece of work. Thanks again, Lilla, for coming on the show.
Thanks Justin. Well, that's about it for this week's show. As always, thanks for listening. Don't forget to rate and subscribe to Telecast and share it with friends and colleagues.
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