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It's all coming up on this week's Telecast. My first guest on this week's show heads up the studios business for a media company that's revolutionised content production for younger audiences and arguably set the template for impactful short-form documentary making as well as wider content. The business started as a magazine in the mid-90s and has evolved into a multimedia empire covering publishing, TV channels, a multi-channel network business, content production, a studios business and a distribution arm. I'm sure there's a few more that I've missed out there.
Here to discuss the studio side of the business, I'm delighted to welcome Kate Ward, President of Vice Studios. Welcome to Telecast, Kate. Thank you so much. Thanks for having me on.
We've seen the impact that Vice has had on the traditional TV business, I think, and how it disrupted the status quo. And before you joined Refinery29, which Vice Bors a couple of years ago, you spent seven years at Shine Group, can you take us inside Vice and give us an overview of how you do things differently at Vice to perhaps more traditional TV industry businesses? I've been incredibly lucky to have the opportunity to experience two on the surface different businesses in the Shine Group and Vice Studios. They have at their core the law and common fantastic creative people, brilliant ideas, a deep passion and commitment to kind of creative excellence.
And, you know, are both global and in so many ways that's very influential. You know, to me, in taking the job is those experiences that shine, not least working with Alex Mound and Ms Madok and all the other incredible leaders that we have there, Jane Feynsdon and Kelly Webb-Lown too many to mention. But I think Vice Studios has a unique position and unique opportunity. We're born from the Vice Media Group.
So part, as you say, of this kind of blue chick media company that's really designed for now and for the future, you know, the publishing team are incredible, global. We have 35 offices around the world. They publish 1400 pieces of content day. So we sit on this kind of treasure trove of intellectual property, of access or areas of authority, whether they're driven by motherball or tech, reporting to much, these are incredible food team, Refinery29 and all the incredible work that they do.
And of course, you know, you couldn't talk about Vice Without Vice News, you know, have one, you know, people use DuPont's and more than I've had hot dinners by many times. So we have born from this incredible creative ecosystem. We're global and that's fantastic of us. I mean, my team is in Mumbai, it's in Mexico City, London, Toronto, and A New York.
But we also have, through our wide-advice team, kind of networks are pretty much every country in the world. And we produce content everywhere around the world. But we're nimble. We are really, really, really agile.
We share ideas quickly, we collaborate, you know, we are really kind of modern in our approach. And I think that flexibility kind of marks us out as something different. And ultimately, I think fundamentally, the thing that really drives me from different is our point of view. Vice is a creative first company built with a very, very simple premise that we tell stories others don't tell, that's us others don't have.
It's a bold future facing progressive youthful voice that really, really seeks to address the subjects that are shaping the world for young people, is for people that want to spark curiosity and making it well their own. And we reflect all of that with a very distinctive editorial time voice. Vice became known as the outlet, the magazine, and as you say, Vice News, of covering stories that nobody else would cover from a completely different angle, obviously different type of journalism, wasn't it? And I think that is something that obviously sparked the success of the business.
And I think it's termed as immersion journalism, or basically individuals living an experience and actually reporting on that experience and sharing that with viewers. Is that something that's still very much at the heart of the vice editorial approach? I think that it's the absolute signature of Vice News that they're immersed within the story, that they are reporting from the ground, that they break the fourth wall, that they are there in the thick of the story. I think for Vice Studios, we have that, that DNA, that journalistic DNA, that desire to go further.
But I think we also reflect our culture, immediate entertainment side of the business as well, which is that predictive engine of culture. I think what defines a vice studio story is we're always looking for character, we're always looking to push right to the edge of culture. We maybe can see something from a slightly different angle, bringing in humor, bringing in analysis, just trying to do things differently. But also, I think this is important.
You know, Vice Studios has really built our business by being a platform for incredible talent. You know, we are absolutely honoured to work with the directors and writers that we do. And I think that really we've been able to build, because we've been a great place for talent to realise their vision and a great, kind of creative first studio. How do you keep things fresh and relevant?
And how do you not get disrupted yourself in a world of social media, expanding choice, expanding channels, individuals, creating brands around themselves? How do you not get disrupted yourself? I can speak for the Vice Studios piece. And I look on and I'm always astonished at the brilliance and the power of my colleagues in the digital side of the business, Corey Haken and her team.
You know, really they are the predictive engines of culture they've been at the forefront and continue to be. And I think it's central to this idea of Vice is really a community brand. It's not just us telling, we reflect the work in the world of our audience, of our creative partners, of our teams. And so we're really in a kind of really, really constant dialogue with all of them.
And really that allows us to push forward. I think studios is interesting because we obviously run on a longer lead time, let's say. I mean, I wish I would be the only TV executive that's probably come on the podcast saying I wish it could all speed up. But we work on a much longer lead time.
We're publishing 1400 pieces of content a day I wish we were. Our job I think is to see, to take these trends, these things, these subjects and push them out. We're really here to make things that are impactful today, but have that kind of ultimate evergreen value that last out for many, many years to come. And I think when you look at some of our big kind of hits, whether it's Fire Festival or Jim and Andy, you really see the impact of those lasting far beyond the kind of immediate, very, very significant audience impact that they had when they came out.
And they're just as relevant just as fun and just as great to watch today as they were there. Can you talk us through Vice's content strategy or Vice Studio, should I say, it's content strategy now? Because it's a time of massive change. It was before the pandemic.
It's just put that change on steroids over the last 18 months or so. Scripted content has been very difficult to produce, although some people have still been able to do that. Factual content has gone through the roof and that's really always been Vice's mainstay. What's your content strategy for Vice going forward?
Because you're in both camps. Is that something that you're looking to further build on, on both sides of the scripted and unscripted events? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think Vice Studio was born originally from being a feature film division, Vice Films, I think were originally cool.
And I think that multi-genre approach has always been central to us and continues to be. I think when we look at our focus, you know, feature film is an important part of what we do, scripted series and scripted podcasts. It is a really important part of what we do in the scripted space. We have a fantastic team and a slate that both has real strength and depth in terms of English language projects, but also projects that reflect Vice's kind of international footprint projects that are born from what we've done in La Tamlin across Europe and even in India.
On the unscripted side, we split our efforts really into two, one, a kind of dedicated docs focus in the US. We were really proud to Hijagarjita, to lead our docs team in the US. It's an incredible executive and humanitarian. And we also have a kind of unscripted and kind of broad and non-fiction focus that can see us do anything from quiz shows all the way through to op-doc and reality.
So we really are operating across all genres. I think when we think about our content strategy, that those are the places that we play that we always come back to is this advice story, is this about great character, great access, what it's saying about the world. So those editorial points guide us, I think, more than the form. And I also think that as the kind of boom in factual content, on non-fiction content, as you say, you know, increasingly that will look like genres coming closer together and docu-drama hybrid is becoming a really important area.
I think we've done some excellent work in that space for Vice TV with Dark Side of the Ring where we do both great recreations as well as some great doc work, but also thinking about hybrids between comedy and reality. And so we really do think about the idea first. I think the other thing that really is at heart of my approach is just emphasizing the global nature of our business. We've really doubled down on growing our business in India.
That's been incredibly successful. And we have multiple shows there in production including Indian Predator, which is a huge true crime coming out on Netflix later this year, which we're incredibly proud of. So I think both multi-genre, our distinct point of view, and our global footprint, those are really the three pillars of what we're setting up to do. Another good example, I think, of your unscripted catalogue was Laws of Chaos, which is a Norwegian Black Death Metal movie directed by Jonas Akeland, who's obviously famous video director.
And that came out a couple of years ago. And that presumably itself was driven from a previous Vice story, I would imagine. You're absolutely right. IP is really at the heart of our creative approach.
We're so incredibly lucky to both work with those individual stories, but also those authority areas that we get thanks to being part of the Vice Media Group. I think you look at Fire, that came from original reporting done on the site. But we are also constantly working closely with our colleagues on the digital publishing site, developing, programming with them, but also using the wider kind of authority areas that have been developed and had one by the company as places for us to create to be played. So we really do benefit hugely from that, and it is an enormous focus for us.
Now, we're talking about unscripted and scripted content. But when it comes to other platforms, when it comes to social platforms, and again, we're looking predominantly at a youth audience, or a younger audience, if we're looking at Vice on YouTube, Snapchat, are you on all of the key social platforms? And if so, how do you monetize your digital content? Want to get ahead in digital first content?
The drop is the go-to newsletter for industry professionals delivering insider news, trends, and insights straight to your involves. Navigate the fast-changing landscape of digital first production, distribution, and monetization. Sign up now for free at dropmedia.co.uk and stay informed with the drop. Well, I mean, I can absolutely guarantee you we are.
I mean, the social short-pond digital content, it's not my remit, but an area that I do oversee is distribution in a more controversial TV form. So we launched a distribution company headed up by Beha Gaitis in July last year, at the height of the pandemic. And I think people can be getting a bit more credit for that, and I deserved in the sense that I was late to never ask for saying genius. They launched distribution companies just as production grinds to a whole.
And that business, I think, has really taken off. It's been a complete rocket ship so much more, even than we could have hoped for. And I think what you're seeing in that business is just the ecosystem, the huge range of places that you can distribute content to meet this ever-growing appetite for unscripted content prices, about $1000 in our library. We've launched a fast channel, which is out on Samsung TV Plus and Roku.
We've launched partnerships with pretty much all the major AVOD platforms in the US, done very big landmark deals with main broadcasters, Channel 4, SBS in Australia, and we have, of course, our international TV channels business with it, with Channel in France and with Sky and Zen in New Zealand. So we really are thinking about distribution in the widest possible sense. But similarly, I guess, to my colleagues and digital and social, really meeting the audience where they are and pursuing a fully diversified distribution strategy with our long form programming as we do a lot of short form. Every business has needed to adapt, and this is an overused term, but pivot during the pandemic.
What have you had to do differently during the pandemic? And what have you learned over the past 16 months or so that you'll take forward after this is all over or until we adapt to this new way of living? Well, you know, I'll answer that question on the personal rate if I can. I think it's the longest period that I've ever been in one place, suddenly prior to this, I was in the US every six to eight weeks and flying here and everywhere in between.
So this is a prolonged period, not on a plane. And I think we've all had to adapt to that. I think you've got elsewhere in the podcast, some discussion about leadership, and I think that learning how to lead a team completely remotely has been challenging and also rewarding as we get better at using that muscle and obviously excited about thinking about what the future of work looks like. I think we've also learned about the incredible resilience, creativity, and innovation of our teams, their determination to capture stories, to continue to make and produce incredible television.
We produced a significant amount of content last year in different places, at different points and all with incredibly rigorous guidelines, but the need for the teams to constantly innovate, to be flexible, and just the sheer dedication that it took to get those shows on the area, something that will save me for a long time. And I think, you know, necessity is the mother of invention, but it's something that was frankly inspiring to see, not just advice, but the whole industry. And keeping that spirit of innovation and doing things differently, alive will be one of the things that I personally look to take always from this period. For somebody who's involved in an international business, and this is something that, again, I've spoken to a previous guest on the show about is, you know, you may not be traveling internationally, but you're still having FaceTime with international colleagues.
And that means that many senior executives have been at home longer, as you mentioned, but also longer into the night, particularly if you're doing calls in the States and particularly if it's a West Coast. Have you felt that your day has extended from early in the morning to late into the evening? Have you felt that you've worked longer hours personally during the pandemic? It's a blessing and a curse, right?
I mean, I think living in London and doing a job that I did, perhaps surprising, I make you suspect that I will be based in LA. And all new, the majority of our studio's business is driven from LA office, a very, very day before I am standing by the best case you run your business. You know, it's been a real pleasure to some extent that there's no longer without meetings in person. My location is no longer a disadvantage for me to be in certain meetings and pitches, which is which is also you don't have to wait for the LA trip to do what you want to do.
So that in some ways is great. I'm a big fan of my LA days as I call with my late night sat my desk being with my team and it works for me. And on the flip side, I have snatched more moments with my young family. I mean, I had my second baby during the lockdown one, so I've snatched more precious moments with them than I'd probably have done at other times, pop downstairs and share a sandwich over lunch and occasionally perhaps do this full run.
So I think it's been a face of being flexible and I think Nancy has set a great example and, you know, recognised that there are all those moments of needing to be flexible. But I certainly know that lots of people have had their LA day stretch out tonight. I must say I wrote mine and lost many time with my team, so they were a regular feature and they have been and they were pre-pandemic and they continue to be. So I think that's just my life.
Well, congratulations on your new edition. Thanks, Lockdown Louie. Yes, that's interesting. You mentioned and I think many international TV execs will recognise that, you know, saving up projects to take out to LA or going out, you know, planning your trip ahead to LA over a number of weeks and then going there and you pin a lot on there.
Do you think that working remotely has sped up the decision-making process of user business or do you think it's not made much difference? Has it streamlined decision-making through necessity? My studio business is super international and I live in London. So, you know, a lot of my time was always remote.
So I hope for my teams their interaction with me has been relatively business as usual without the facetime that we so look forward to as a broader team. I don't know just in order if I can say that that's made a difference. I think there's enormous value of getting together, creatively spending time together. I also, as I said admire, have enormous respect for the resilience of our teams to operate internationally globally, to collaborate across geographies, across cities and there is a lot of that global collaboration and communication that happens at Vice Studios that was there before and will remain after the pandemic.
I'm not sure it applies to us as much as maybe others. Can you tell us some of the new scripted and unscripted projects that you've got in the pipeline at Vice Studios that you're most excited about? What's coming up? There's probably more than you can say at this point, but I'll point to one that I'm incredibly proud of, which is that we're in production on ESPN, Vertica 30, which is a story of the history of American Gladietas, Director of the incredible and incredible Ben Boman.
And I think, you know, Vertica 30 is such an iconic platform and such an iconic slot for ESPN and to be in such great company with those other films that have been in that company is awesome. Ben is an incredible director and it's a wild and fantastic story. So we're really, really excited about that. We are airing at the moment, Dark Side of the Ring, new Dark Side of the Ring, Season 3, which is just absolutely phenomenal and has such a huge following all around the world.
And you know, that's been absolutely brilliant. And also this year, we're so proud of Pride, which recently aired on FX in the US and I don't know when it's coming to the UK, but please please watch out for it because it was an incredible landmark documentary which charted the history of the LGBTQ plus movement. And I think it was extraordinary. So we were incredibly proud out and proud to work with all the directors and killer films on that project.
So yeah, and there's lots and lots and lots more, but I'm bound to, bound to silence and more to come. We've been very, very busy and really, really excited about what next year is going to hold for the viewers at home. Well, we look forward to seeing what's coming up from Vice Studios in the weeks and months ahead. And that's that time in the show for Kate to pick her Story of the Week, the TV industry news item that's caught her eye in the past seven days.
Kate, what's your story of the week? My story of the week was from the Hollywood Reporter and it talked about that the EU was considering proposals to exclude British programs from EU quotas that would have a big impact on the UK film and TV sector into the EU. It was a bit of a bolt from the blue. I mean, there's a number of things that play here, aren't they?
In the fact that EU has quotas for at least 30% of titles on video and demand platforms, such as Netflix and Amazon, 2B of European origin. And now the UK is not part of Europe, then maybe we could see that reducing, which is quite terrifying when you think that the EU is the second biggest market for British content after the US. It's clearly not resolved. And I guess there are many steps to go until it is resolved.
But I think, you know, it's obviously concerning what you think of the impact and the growth that the British TV sets has had. And as you say, especially for high-end subscription projects, the co-pros, etc. You know, it seemed like a worrying story. But I suspect that there'll be time to work through it.
But I think what we've seen is that kind of booming content from all over the world. And I think other stories I could have chosen would point to the success of non-exchangeable content on streamers and coming to UK. So I think, you know, one hope that this can be resolved. And also, it's a good time to be in a content business.
There are more eyeballs that I hope that this will be resolved because I think there should be more opportunity for everyone. And now is that time in the show where my guests get to nominate their Hero of the Week and who, or what they're telling to get in the bin. Kate, who's your Hero of the Week? Joint Heroes of the Week.
Michael and Emily Yves and the BBC, Glastonbury, I've been going every year for as long as long as I can remember. And the last weekend in June is Glastonbury, weekend for me. Obviously not happening this year, but thanks to the BBC. I spent some very nice time drumming this in on iPlayer and watching on the TV and wishing that I was in front of the pyramid stage.
So that's then my Heroes of the Week and a bit of much welcome light relief and reminiscing about what it was like to be in a big crowd having a dance. So yeah, then my Heroes of the Week. I'm going to get you on the hoof here. What's your favourite Glastonbury moment?
What's the ultimate moment that you have a Glastonbury that stays with you? It's probably unbroadcastable. But I was very lucky once I got to see a headline set on a pyramid from a side stage and that was very amazing to look the other way out into the crowd. And yeah, I wouldn't forget that and hurry.
So that was pretty cool. What band was that? I think it was it was madness on a Sunday afternoon. Just having a little look out.
Fantastic. Yeah, it was great. It was really great. But I think I've had too many memories to mention.
And yeah, certainly watching it all on the TV as well. So that one. I think Oasis was probably my best of all. Certainly don't miss the mud.
It was raining all day yesterday in London. I'll take it mud, certain hot, cold, any chance to be a money farmer. Okay. And who or what are you telling to get in the bin, Kate?
I struggled to find a person in the whole country that wasn't thinking that they had to tell about Hancock to get an event. So yeah, I think it's going to be a Matt Hancock in the bin. Yeah, yeah. I think he is.
And for international listeners, I mean, actually everybody internationally is probably seeing the UK. Google it. International listeners. Yes.
Yeah. The UK Health Secretary caught on camera in a steamy embrace while telling people to socially distance. So I think nobody likes to have a grip today. So there we go.
That's our political bit of a happy Hancock. There we are. Kate, thank you so much for joining me on telecast this week. Really enjoyed chatting with you all the best with Vice Studios and everything that's going on.
Obviously your fledgling distribution business, which probably isn't so fledgling anymore. After what is I'm sure a very busy first year in existence. Thanks again for coming on telecast. Thank you so much.
I'm really appreciate it. Now, my next guest on this week's show is a leadership coach and strategist who helps business leaders transform themselves and their businesses. And he's worked with lots of businesses within the media and TV industry as well as lots of others. He's worked for NBC Universal, Channel 4, BBC, the NHS and many other blue chip organizations.
Welcome to the show, David Lansfield. Thank you very much, Justin. Wonderful to be here. Lovely to have you on.
And thanks for spending some time with us. As a leadership coach, you've deals with transformation. You must have had a pretty busy time during this pandemic as all of these leaders and all these businesses and all these different sectors you work in. I've been thinking, how do we keep these train on the tracks?
How has it been for you the last few months? Yeah, I think it's been my own transition from being from being a sort of partner in a consulting scene to my own new business. And that's a transition itself. I've been obviously doing my own personal challenges at home schooling.
But also my work with leaders. I guess I've observed that leaders are more open to a more personal conversation about their own resilience, about what matters to them, about how they interact with people in a way that's deeper than perhaps before. And at the same time, they've had to make critical decisions in terms of financial performance, dealing with difficult HR issues. And so it's been intense at times.
It's been more rewarding, I think than perhaps previous times, because you can see the immediate effect. And I think it's required of them. And I hope of me, greater wisdom. And I don't say that with arrogance.
But I mean, at times you have to just pause, think, breathe, reflect, to think deeply about what the right thing is to say or do, particularly in environments where people are candidly traumatized at times through personal difficulties and worse, and sensitised to the environment and looking for a degree of hope. So wisdom has been something that's been a forefront of my mind and of the leaders I worked with. Yeah, as individuals in small organisations, as well as some of the really big organisations that you deal with, that feeling of kind of distance, I suppose, from those of us who used to going into offices every day with colleagues, and that's been part of the day-to-day work environment, that's taken away. And as you mentioned earlier on, everyone's, or many people have been dealing with homeschooling and various different external issues.
That must have been an issue for many people as well, just that feeling of belonging, I suppose, being taken away, if you swipe yourself into a big office block every day and that's taken away, there's a little bit of self-identity goes with that. Yes, I think for many of us, whatever size of organisation, work is a very large part of our life and our identity. And at best, you enjoy being around other people, you learn from them, have fun with them and so forth. And whilst there are some benefits and have been some benefits for many people, I'm spending more time at home with family, getting to know neighbours and so forth.
What is my relationship with my organisation beyond the physical presence that I have? And I think many people have been asking questions and I've been working with them on, okay, how much do I want to give to work? What are my relationships at work? How many of them are strictly professional and will stay there?
But once I'm out of that bubble, how many friends do I actually have? And how much do I need to try and create a reservoir of trust amongst people? Because if you're not around people, physically sitting next to them, you have to trust them more, trust them to deliver against whatever it is, the objectives, the plans, the results, the projects, the ventures you're involved in. And if you can't see them, you have to find a way to perhaps talk more often, at least at the beginning, share what you're doing and actually perhaps be more open about some of the challenges than perhaps you were before.
Because those moments of bumping into people in corridors of serendipity are not as easy to manufacture. And what I've seen at the best, I've seen many organisations and individuals do this, which is they've actually had proper conversations about what their focus is, what are they there to do and what does success look like and what's the rhythm of work to the degree that they haven't needed to do that before because they can see each other visibly. So actually, I think it's been in many cases a positive enabler, but there are times when people are, and I've found it myself at times, you get more lonely because you're spending more time in your own and having a video or audio call, which many people have done too much of. We can still use the telephone and we can still use other forms of contact beyond just using Zoom or other platforms.
I think you have to find a way to work out your own inner strength and actually what's meaning to do, which may sound all-high in my tea, but actually, I think many of us look to work and our relationships at work for validation and a degree of recognition. And that's positive to degree, but if your whole psyche is based on having a high five from somebody getting applause, getting that buzz at work, and you need that, it becomes a bit addictive. So I've been working with an executive recently where he's actually found the time quite difficult, not only because he's mis-people, but it's like, how do I know what I'm doing is right and good? And what we've been talking about is how can he have more meaningful, thoughtful conversations with his colleagues about the outcomes they're trying to deliver and actually what they're there to do?
It's been a period of self-reflection, hasn't it, really? As you say, what am I doing? What is my business doing? To the fundamentals of do I actually enjoy what I'm doing?
Can I see a way forward with it? So I mean, it'd actually be interesting to see how many people have changed jobs during the pandemic versus beforehand. I'm sure there's some stats somewhere about that after maybe have a look. There'll be some people who frankly have had the time for reflection and in some ways lucky them.
Some of that to do it and necessity in terms of I need to make some immediate decisions because I've either lost my job or I'm not going to frankly get paid while I expect to get paid or my progression is not as fast. There's lots of different contexts. I guess we need to be careful that we don't assume that everything's been rosy for people because many people have suffered financially career-wise and obviously health-wise. I think many people have a higher expectation of their organization and the leaders that they work with and for, because you spend more time outside the work environment, the physical environment, I think it's given a window on life that for many people has been positive.
Others actually hasn't been so there've been quite a lot of stats around marital challenges and so forth. But I think if you're a leader of any organization, particularly in the TV industry and industry I love, I think there is a greater need to articulate what we stand for, what I expect from you, the culture of the organization, which have always been important. But I think now people are more expectant and I think they also want to get a sense of is this a personal group of people that I really want to give my attention, my time and my energy to. From a business perspective, in the UK and in the US and we know that lots of European countries and are starting to catch up when it comes to vaccination and things hopefully going all in the right direction, many of us are starting to look beyond the pandemic now.
Yes. And those particularly in large media organizations, particularly those actually that were probably driven from the US, might start to feel that inevitable pressure again from above to ramp up operations and make the earnings and accelerate out of COVID. A lot of leaders, a lot of people in leadership positions might be feeling a bit ragged around the edges, you know, after dealing with everything that COVID has dealt us. How should leaders of big and small content businesses prepare to go again and really start to scale the next mountain?
Yeah. I think firstly, they have to find the right moment and the right words to convey the fact there is a shift in calling time on the crisis, as I call it. I don't mean they have to become scientists overnight, but there is something about moving into a new phase. And I think before you move on to the, okay, here's our new targets, here's our new plan, come on, go again.
There are some important words and feelings that I think have to be conveyed around recognition for people's time and efforts and going above and beyond. I guess, and honestly, about the state of the business, about how strong it is, how resilient it is, and what the opportunities are. And I guess also, as I said earlier, a sense of aspiration and hope about what the business and organization could become, assuming that it's not in distress. And I think very, very importantly, there is a personal commitment that leaders need to give around learning the lessons from their interactions with customers within the organizations, rather than just slipping back to what the organization was before, the pandemic, or just if you're like sleepwalking to the next phase.
So there will be lots and lots of lessons around how you work smarter, how you have worked in a more virtual environment that you may want to continue. There's maybe some things you want to stop. But I think before moving to the next stage of, come on, let's get going, let's make sure we deliver results because shareholders will be expectant. There is a, I guess, what I call a holding of the of the of the organization and a care for the organization.
And the leaders will need to convey that to their boards and their investors to say, look, we have some choices. We can either push, push, push and actually get a short term, potentially a short term, you know, uplifting performance. But then we're going to step back because we're going to suffer. Again, we are people businesses from the lack of energy and resilience.
Or actually, we're thoughtful and wise about calling a close on this chapter of our business and, you know, and this sort of period, and then moving forward. And then I think it's about being strategic about where the organization focuses. I know there's a big focus on hybrid working, how much time in the office and so on, which is important. I understand that.
But there are, I'd argue there are as important, if not more important questions about what's the business is there to do? Focus. No point having great working environments. If you're focusing on the wrong customers, or you're pricing the wrong way, or you're developing the wrong formats.
And I don't think there's been enough focus on the strategic and commercial questions that complement the cultural questions. After all, whatever size of organization you are, whatever geographic market, if you took a fresh look around you, the landscape will look and feel quite differently. So business will have gone under, some will be stronger, particularly some of the platform based technology companies will be stronger than before. Others may be weaker, talent may have moved.
So there's something about what you call to close on that on that period of life, actually having a fresh look at the landscape around you. And then very importantly, as is an all good strategy, making some conscious choices and articulating them clearly to the people around you. If you're listening to a leader, you want both confidence and appreciation, but you also want clarity about what are we going to do next? What are our choices?
And very, very important, this goes to your point just about energy and resilience. What are we going to stop doing? And what are we not going to do? Which is rarely conveyed.
We often always focus on the next thing, the bigger thing, the bigger thing, and it often becomes overwhelming. And it's the why as well, isn't it, as opposed? And that's the opportunity now for those leaders to have those sort of conversations. It's like, before you might have felt part of the big machine, and you're just one of the cogs in it, and great, I'll get my pay rise at the end of this year, and maybe hopefully get promotion every couple of years.
But actually now, as you said, there's a fundamental opportunity for reinvention. You use the term core time on the crisis, so to draw a line under it and say, okay, we can now reimagine who we are and what we do. Some organizations may have thousands of employees. You need to take them with you, don't you?
And now, after this huge period of introspection that people have had, it's reigniting the flame a little bit and reinventing for the new chapter, isn't it? Absolutely. And there will be, I think many people who have actually thrived and done pretty well through the pandemic, and don't say that insensitably, and these are not people we tend to focus on, but there will be many people in organizations who will be, you know, raring to go, have actually not just, you know, been reflecting, but thinking, right, I want to take the business forward. And I think for any leader, the question now is, how do you harness that energy?
Who do you involve in that reimagining? And how do you position it? The language really matters. If you're an organization that's, you know, frankly struggled through the pandemic and somebody says to you, we're going to reimagine the organization.
I think many people will roll their eyes and say, oh, not another one. If however, you framed it as an opportunity to do good work, better work to work smarter, and you invite people to share their own lessons and their own ideas, and you do that meaningfully. It's not just one of those summer away days where you have a few hours and then you go back to the business the next day, but a proper process of dialogue, discussion, and exploration in the business. And very importantly, involving people from different backgrounds and walks of life, not just the top team, not just the obvious suspects, but people who have that's people right in the front line of the business, you know, the creators, the commercial people, the lawyers, and whoever it is, mix up the people, ask them some simple questions about opportunity and growth, avoid the buzzwords.
And then very importantly, when new ideas come forward and new energy is conveyed, really back it. So I think it is an opportunity for leaders to play more of a role of curator and framing these sort of dialogues, rather than being the sort of the person who they've often had to be during the earlier stage of the pandemic, you know, the hero or the person right at the front saying, we're going to do this. I think now there's a shift of leadership style that we need to have, which is more listening, more convening, and more enabling of their people. That also helps the leadership team refreshing themselves.
As we're talking about emerging from this pandemic gradually, but we're also emerging into a new world, aren't we? We've had Black Lives Matter happening, we've had lots of different cultural changes that have happened over the last year, which is actually throwing it all together with the pandemic, Black Lives Matter, and so many other major cultural changes that it's going to be seen, I think, as a real watershed moment, isn't it, and the leaders that have the vision to be able to take all of those learnings and reinvent their businesses as some wherever people now want to work. People may now have a different requirement of the businesses that they spend their time with. I think that's right.
I think mindset is critical throughout this. I think a mindset of openness to think of the business afresh, as if you're a newcomer, or a new investor in the business, and say, look, let's not forget our strengths. They may be the brands, the relationships you have, the quality of the content, the technology you use and deploy, whatever it is, you shouldn't ignore that. It's very easy when you talk about fresh starts to try and create something too new.
So start on your strengths, but there's also something about saying, let's look at the context we're in. Let's look at our customers. Let's look at our supply chain partners. Let's look at the societal issues.
Where do we want to play in that space beyond shareholder value and making money in the short term? What is our responsibility? How do we want to contribute to solving some of these societal issues? I think many of those, the topics you've included, as well as income inequality, which is a major issue, climate change, and many of these topics have been accelerated through the pandemic in terms of their implications and their impact.
I think Gone are the days where businesses can just rely on others to deal with it. I think many of us as employees want to get a sense of, okay, what do we stand for on societal issues? And what are we practically doing about it? We were talking about Alex Mayhan at Channel 4, who I think has done very well through the pandemic, I mean, communicated brilliantly and communicated a more personal level than many other CEOs about our own challenges.
But also, my view is, she's used as an opportunity to double down on diversity and inclusion as a topic, not only because it's Channel 4's remit in the UK, but actually it's a business opportunity to say this is central to our strategy. I've mentioned Alex before on the show and she has been very visible and really played a leadership role for all of the industry, I think. So it's been very inspiring to see that. You're working with lots of businesses outside of TV and outside of the content industry.
Are there any other leaders that you've dealt with in other industries that, any lessons that we can learn from leaders in other industries that might be interesting for the TV industry to look and go? Actually, that's a really interesting approach and that could be anybody from a, I don't know, petrochemical giant or anybody else. Is there anybody that you've noted, but any changes that you've seen being made from an external industry that you think actually TV industry could take some good tips from that? There's individuals that I've admired in terms of what they've stood for and what they've done.
Alison Rose, for example, who's the CEO of the Nat West Group, who used to be Art and Royal Bank of Scotland. That's a challenging organisation in terms of a legacy of Channel 4, which she inherited. But what it says impressed me is how she's communicated clearly the role and responsibility of the bank and its divisions in helping SMEs, small immediate enterprises. Now, you can debate how well they've done it.
But she's gone on the front foot and saying, this is our role, this is what we're doing differently, and this is how we want to help. So she's not only, if you're like delivered on what's expected of her business, but sort of a bit like Alex, taking a broader stance and saying, actually, we have a responsibility. And when she communicated and I've seen her on the platform a number of times, it wasn't just big picture themes. She really went into the detail of either dealing with complaints or improving the way that SMEs are dealing with the bank.
And if you're like the combination of being what I call on top of the business, on big picture issues and in the business, has been critical throughout the crisis. That's one person I think has impressed. If you look at the CEO's of Zoom and Airbnb, I mean, they're big names, but they've had big challenges in different lights. You know, it's Eric at Zoom, clearly, it's an incredibly well, but it's had some teething problems along the way.
And what I've been reminded by him is the honesty and openness to sort of say, we've got it wrong, we've got it wrong at times, we're doing our best to fix it. And the immediacy of that communication and the honesty and transparency, I think, has gone a long way. And I think in terms of Brian Airbnb, I mean, that is a business that's had to make many, many decisions in a very short time to pivot as a business. So whilst communication is important, Brian and other CEOs have had to make important strategic commercial decisions to change their business.
And this is not something you can spend years on. You have to do it in the matter of weeks and months. And I think that takes courage. I think that takes sort of clarity of mind.
And I think it also means, you know, assembling the right team around you. So some of the leaders I worked with during this period, I think they've been very smart about getting the right styles and styles of people around them, you know, not just the people who want to make decisions immediately, more reflective thinkers, people who have had experience outside their industry, people who perhaps are fresher to the organization, the diversity of perspective in the leadership team has been absolutely critical to making sensible and wise decisions often at real pace. It's the time for casting the net a bit wider, isn't it, from a leadership team? It used to be the case of, you know, you just employ somebody who could do the job better than you kind of thing.
We used to be the sort of advice. But now it's enabling a wider sort of reflection of the wider issues that are out there. I agree. And I think one of the topics that any leadership should be considering always and especially now is what is our real role?
What are the things we should really focus on, what are our capabilities? If I give you a quick example of a coming outside team, another example coming outside the TV sector in space, coming called Hire, which is a company that's being studied as a Chinese equipment manufacturer, it's much more than that, but that's the simple description. It is pioneered, a management model of distributed, what are called distributed responsibility, proper empowerment responsibility. So yes, it has a top team, pretty small top team that sets direction, you know, manages performance, but effectively what it's created is a series of entrepreneurial networks, and quite small teams that are there with very clear bounds and guidance, right?
So they know what they, you know, if like what they can do, what they can do, but they're there to make money, to obviously do the like customers, and the top team is there to set the direction and obviously listen to those teams, set the sort of tolerance around return and risk, all those things, but it's not there to do the classic, you know, management role day today, which many leadership teams still do, whatever they tell you, the reality is still there, pretty immersed in the business. They see their role is finding the best talent, supporting them, and letting them, if you like, use their entrepreneurial spirit to their best. And I think that's quite a radical shift for many, many organizations, particularly traditional organizations, where there's a sort of rhythm, the monthly meetings, you know, the long days for the gender of operating items and so on. And I think there's a question for any leadership team, which is, okay, what are the two or three roles we play?
How can we empower the organization much more? And effectively, how can we spend more time, if you like, outside the organization, exploring new relationships, new ventures, learning from people inside and outside the sector? One of the things I've said in one of my recent articles and Harvard Business Review is, you know, executives need to spend more time at the edges of the organization. Not just the classic, I'm new in role, let me go and see what the people on the front line, whatever they are, you know, the creatives, the people doing deals, what they're telling me, and then they go back to the corporate center after a month or two, and then they devised a strategy, and then they rolled it out.
We're in a mindset where actually they got to stay there, spend more time there, and actually give the pen in the vertical commas to others to write the story, to develop the direction of the particular team or the operating unit. That's a pretty big shift, I think, in mindset and leadership style, but I think it's necessary. And higher is an example of a pioneer in that space. It's done incredibly well in all senses.
That's quite brave, as well, isn't it? To actually, as you say, give the pen to somebody else. So there's something about starting in the right place. So I think this is not something you do overnight, but there is something about finding either the right individuals, the right team, and actually piloting something and saying, you know what, we're going to try something different, and it may be in a space that you're more comfortable with, but every time, also my own experience of being a leader, every time I've tried to do something different, and I've explained it clearly as to what my intent is with some of my team, and I've given them the resources and I've given them the support and also being willing to accept some mini failures.
Often the failures aren't failures, they've just done it differently in the way I've done it, but I've considered it a failure. Actually, they've thrived. So there is something about genuinely giving more responsibility, being more transparent in terms of what you're looking to do, and then very, very importantly, giving people more resources. There's no point in sharing responsibility if effectively they have the hands type on their back.
They have to be given resources, which could be people, money, time, space, and it also means that they have to, a lot of the machinery that clogs up many organizations, you know, the processes that sign offs them, the governance need to be simplified in order for people to try the new stuff. Let's hope that's one of the positive developments coming out of COVID. David, thank you so much for joining us this week. It's been really fascinating to hear about your take on leadership and your experiences and the leadership that you're seeing and admiring.
You mentioned Alex Mahon, you had an interview with Alex, so we'll put a link to that on YouTube in the episode description, and also one of your recent articles on how the business reviews are being wonderful to speak to you. Thank you, Justin. Brilliant. Thanks, David.
All the best. Thank you very much. Well, that's about it for this week's show. As always, thanks for listening.
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