All right, let's do this. How are you? What the fuckers? What the fuck buddies?
What the fuck sickles? I am Mark Marin. This is WTF. I'm in my garage I'm at the cat ranch.
I got some I get emails I get things You know now that I've started to occasionally reach out to those of you listening and Situations that I might not be familiar with at the front of wars in laboratories in the air But I got this is one what do you call it a subterranean? What the fucker subject line dispatch from the underground mark I work in the Iron Mountain facility in Boyer's PA 50 miles north of Pittsburgh Which is 220 feet underground in these winter months not only do I not see the Sun unless it's through the webcam mounted outside I obviously don't have any windows by my cubicle under these circumstances It can get a little costarphobic and depressing around here So I just wanted to drop you a line and say thank you for doing what you do you make these days down here a lot more Barable I just started listening to your podcast a few weeks ago been playing a ton of ketchup keep up the good work Andrew underground the man every day Sitting there with all the unique secrets and stuff that needs to be hidden away and stored properly 220 feet underground. Thank you for listening. Thank you for listening wherever you are.
I appreciate it today on the show director Danny Boyle who is the real deal people. I mean this dude. I was excited to talk to him He did he's done some amazing movies man shallow grave train spotting 28 days later What a swum dog millionaire 127 hours? We talk a lot about the new Steve Jobs movie, which I liked I like the new Steve Jobs Movie I would go see it if I were you I know some people were saying well It's not not as real like but this movie has got such a frenetic pace It's so amazingly acted and when Aaron Sorkin clicks it clicks man There is a pace of dialogue between windswood and fast-bender that is almost reminiscent of movies from the 40s And so clever and so quick and when sort can shit works it really fucking works And I didn't give a shit if this was a real Steve Jobs or a mythical Steve Jobs because the real Steve Jobs is kind of mythical Anyways, I don't know a lot about him I don't know a lot about Apple but this was really about you know the transition in technologies and the sort of the business of Of him being pushed out Apple and then you know doing his own whatever it didn't even matter the back the backstory It's just the the dialogue pace of this movie and the way Danny directed it And the way it was acted just seemed to be fucking beautiful symbiosis in terms of of of movie making And you know and I'm not you know, I'm not a pushover I just was very compelled I was compelled and excited at the way it all worked It just had that pace of dialogue like from the like Kate Hepburn and Carrie Grant or something Well, that's what I saw and I you know what do I know but I thought it was a great movie And I've liked a lot of Danny Danny Boyle's movies Oh, I wanted to pay a little lip service to my buddy Bob Forrest You might know him as a dr.
Drew's sidekick in the rehabs But he was also the front man for a band called Thelonious Monster and he's also put out this amazing album a folk album called Survival Songs And the reason I'm saying this is that I recorded a WTF with him and that's coming up And it was really one of the it was a great one There's a couple songs on that album the serial song primarily is one of the best songs about drug addiction that I've ever fucking heard And I and we had a nice on chat But that's coming up the WTF episode is coming up But I want to let everyone in LA know that Bob's gonna be performing at Origami vinyl on Sunset Boulevard this Saturday December 12th at 7 p.m But if you just know him as the guy who's in rehab with Drew you're missing something because he's somewhat of a He's a very self-aware dude a very sober dude and and the folk songs are pretty pretty heartfelt and deep And I'm telling you man the serial song on Bob Forrest's new record survival songs is I think one of the best Drug addiction songs that I have ever heard and I mean and that's not nothing and I look forward to a WTF with me and Bob coming up I've been watching a lot of movies. I'm getting a lot of screeners is it is today perhaps the day that I do some quick Movie reviews because of the screeners I've seen between us. I went to a screening of a namalisa This is the new Charlie Kaufman movie. It's all done in Stop-action animation by the guy he co-directed it with the guy's name's Duke.
I did he did moral oral does a lot of the Do you know and Dan Harmon stuff? I'm sure you've seen his work before but the Charlie Kaufman script and It's fucking soul shattering and so simple. It's it's it's bleak poetry at its best It's a grown-up movie done in this stop-action animation But it the depth of the emotion in the character in this in this animated piece this film by Charlie and Duke I feel like I should know that guy's last name Duke Johnson Charlie Kaufman Obviously Calvin's genius. He did adaptation.
He did synecdoche New York his big Opus that he directed he did the Toronto Sunshine of this about his mind being John Malkovich He's a he's a brilliant writer and this movie did not disappoint on any level. It's dark. It's intense It's relatable and it's mind-blowing and I want so much for Charlie Kaufman to come talk to me I asked him I asked him right up to his face. I said you want to come talk to me on WTF So I can't do it to person.
I said doesn't have to be personal man. I'm a big fan of your work Let's do it man. Let's talk about the movie. Let's talk about your other movies.
Let's talk about writing Let's talk about comedy. He wrote with Louie and the guys and Smigo and Dino on that Dana Carvey project I mean, I don't know man You know sometimes this show gets a reputation that I just sit here and make people cry which has only happened a few times Now I seem to be the one that's crying, but it's a beautiful movie I would see that when it comes out. I don't know if it's a family film or an upbeat Christmas movie But it's certainly a movie if you're a grown-up that can handle being a grown-up in all its in all its complicated manifestations I would definitely see this film also I saw cicario is that the name of it? I thought that Benicio del Toro was going to assassinate me through my screen That's how fucking great a performance it was and Emily Blunt amazing Josh Brolin amazing all the supporting cast amazing and it's a story about Mexican drug cartels and it's fucking leveling man It's it's spectacular.
I mean again not push over not paid to do this good movie trying to be honest What else what else what else what else did I watch? I feel like there's more? What the hell was that Western I watched with with Michael Fassbender slow west? That's what I saw on the plane.
I liked it. It's hard to do a nice Western But I thought that was a kind of an interesting angle and a pretty good Western with you know, let's talk to a let's talk to a film director Let's go now to my conversation with Danny Boyle the director of the Steve Jobs movie So I'm dung million there a hundred and seven twenty seven hours twenty days wait a lot a lot of great films and that was a great talk I'm very excited to hear. Oh, well So you have the president here and the president sat right there and he left his cup right here And I put a glass dome over because that's a kind of oh my god. Look at it's not serious Yeah, that's like it.
That's he had a cup and he just left it here I I imagine I don't know if he was that's all for where but you never know what politicians how self-aware are they in his mind? And he's like I'm gonna. We've marined the cup But I didn't know what else to do with it. I did there's a brilliant idea.
It's a little like a little much But I'm like I gotta do something So yeah, he was he was in here, but tell me like what do you know Stephen Queen? Well? No, I mean I met him a couple of times I did some kind of promotion work I did some support work for 12 years of slave when they were on the kind of academy trial last year You know I introduced a couple of screenings and did a Q&A with him Oh really? So I just said a little to him and stuff like that I like his films a lot like that hunger movie was referred to me by Lynn Shelton She's an independent filmmaker at a Seattle and she said I got to see that and I just was it But I was devastated by it But it's interesting that you know you're able to focus in on it being it's about the body and it's about the sacrifice and the real meaning of that type of protest To turn the depth of it but for for you know because he's British and to be able to turn Because the subject is in intractable.
Yeah, and it is impossible to deal with historically You can't just do like it's hard to do one of those movies that would encapsulate the entire struggle And it because it separates people right he made a film that you can all approach as human beings right which is impossible in Northern Ireland It was impossible and I was astonished at his film Yeah, and I love 12 years of life. I thought it was great Yeah, and that's another thing though too a very specific focus on the body Yeah, because there is that that one scene where you know the devastating whipping yes And then you know it really brings home the human Element and pain and torture and damage of a person. Yeah, what's got and suffering? Yeah, I mean just when he was hung outside all day and Way shot that anyway He is an uncompromising artist a truly and Michael is as well Which is one of the reasons that we cast him his jobs actually because I thought we need that because otherwise we'll get lost in is he nice Is he not nice?
You know right he didn't actually who's absolutely not gonna do any of that? He's just gonna Uncompromised I mean Michael's like that. He's just he sounds in laser like on what the truth is yes because after that He doesn't give a fuck when anybody thinks office says it's like really no yeah now you'd never worked with him before I had no I tried to cast him in a couple movies, but what I'd met him and he was in I tried to get him in trance Which is just something did before right and the producer I worked with Christian He was in a film he did when you deal with it because in my mind or as an American or as a lady as a film person You know people like that spay under they just come out of nowhere. You're like where was this guy?
He was around oh yeah, he was really come from originally what he's he's he's born in Germany right brought up in Ireland Right, so he's a proper European right I'll actually avoid Britain because I mean I know this probably want interest you know It's very interesting of course where he comes out of and I'd work with a lot of Celtic actors Yeah, Irish and Scottish actors. Yeah, just there's something about them because they're not in the main body or belly of Britain Yeah, they're kind of around the edges and islands had a torture history with Britain over pressure and you get these extraordinary actors come out of it I think and I would a bunch of them and they give you something very very special I don't think you get with the British actors personally something connected to the ground maybe it is the smell the greens the working people I don't know what it is. It's the something there though. I mean it's interesting because he was in the Tarantino movie That's where people probably are remembering from it in glorious bastards and he had the touch of the Cary Grant in in that Which people don't know because you're very funny man.
He's intense. Oh people don't think he's funny. Right very witty. Yeah Oh, yeah, Emma wins what together you get him and Kate wins it together.
It's funny Well, that was the interesting thing that I noticed that I went saw the movie when I couldn't get out of my head when I left Was you know I'm familiar with Sorkin's writing and it's very specific It's not necessarily how people talk but there's a lyricism to it There's a rhythm to it and there's a truth to it And if the actor is a good enough actor that you don't think about the fact that no one loads as much information No, that's right But you know where they did speak like that is in like the Philadelphia story There's in those movies from the 40s So like the thing that you talk about in the banter like the thing I walked away with like it is a lot like the pace of those films From the 40s where it was just back and forth very witty very clever and and because the actors were so focused It was beautiful and it's also one of the big problem with doing films like this is how do you depict like geniuses right very very very bright people Right who actually socially are not that adept often right right there? Yeah, it comes comes with it Of course he does it through language. Yeah, he does it. I'm not like a vocabulary.
It's not like It's they never say anything that's particularly Sensationally, you know elaborate, but the eloquence with which they speak in the speed of right mind Right the speed of thought is a way that you actually realize you're in the presence of people like wasn't yak who's a genius But how you depicting and you just do it through speed of thought and it's the rhythm of so and he does it to rhythm Sorkin and then and that connects it with human beings because it feels like we talk like that right we wish we did right It's recognizable. It's not in the stratosphere of something that we can't relate to it's using something We all know like language as a way of depicting stuff We probably don't know about like algorithms and physics and all the stuff they actually do these people right and they sort of like just pay a Little bit of service to that occasional mentions of stuff right so you were aware of that You know how did the relationship with sort can begin around this movie and you it was they had a director David Fincher who did Social Network which talking also role is an amazing film actually the Facebook thing and but they fell out I don't know what happens to them. They all anyway. Oh really?
Yeah, yeah one of those things. Yeah one of those I'm mad at something and I'm very lucky. I don't live in Hollywood So I get to hear about stuff like this, but I never really get to fully understand it So I keep a kind of naivety about stuff like that anyway, so he sent me to script Scott Rudin who's who they call the mean guy Who does great stuff? No, yeah, I call him in his office.
That's not my description of him anyway He sent it and he said and I said and I said and I read it and I was amazed I got that thing you get sometimes We think this is so bold just as a word about it. What resonated with you immediately It's all an expected a way of dealing with him, but it's not trying to capture everything It's just going now just look at these three little bits because it's obviously set before the launches of three different products Right, but just the 40 minutes real time before he goes on stage Right, and then you never really see him on stage because it kind of denies you that because you've got that on YouTube anyway It's all there right so I love that about it and then there was the father daughter thing in it Which I actually found very moving because it's it's difficult stuff some of it But you know I got two daughters and when you can relate to something like that just instinctively you just go well That's sort of mine as well, you know you kind of you begin on everybody feels that you know if you have parents or you have children You you know everyone has a so much strange relationship with a parent Oh and boy is that like that on this and and you you know and I've made sacrifices in bringing them up Yeah, I'm assuming a career and stuff and yeah, I hope not as bad as is depicted with him, you know some of the stuff But but it's there yeah, but it's interesting because you're dealing with it right out of the gate And I didn't realize that's really that is the way it's broken down It's broken down into three parts all of them the 40 minutes before a presentation. Yeah, wow. I don't you I guess I was so caught up in the pace of it Even really think of the location of things with some flashbacks.
Yes, there's to the garage. Yeah younger people Yeah, you have to throw the garage and garage is important as I know But right out of the gate he's it's hard to like it Understand historically that he's a genius and I'm not even sure that we're dealing with it Was it a concern of yours to get the truth of of what happened or the truth of the character? How do you were you sitting with that? How do you it's by a real problem with real people and with biopics in general?
Yeah, because if you're gonna do fact stuff just facts they completely contradictory depends on you talk to you know That you just like you can't rely on you think well, I thought that was true right something else is not what happened at all Right what you trust is actually something different which you can't doesn't stand up in a court law Mm-hmm. I have to say I have to be you know, but you trust your own bullshit detector you go you read something you think I think that feels truthful Yeah, I believe that and then you pass it through a series of other filters Which are your actors and your colleagues are people you work with you trust and they also do the same thing and you arrive You hope at something and again, it's not you know, it can't stand up I know like facts supposedly can but I trust it almost more in a way that you feel and I believed it and I thought that Well, and I've kept and it's had a very checkered history with lots of problems on it But kept faith in that the whole time that feeling of nothing that feels that is an artist talking actually Trying to reach for a man about whom you know some things and he's intuiting other stuff And then there were the rules of drama which follow their own course about stuff that emerges when you put characters together But you read it you know, I believe that I think that's true And I think and it is because I think it wasn't we the lawyers at Apple would have us over a barrel, you know sure so when you say We're doing with the human truth that because what you said at the beginning when you have a banter like between Winswood and fast mender that that the characters were very well-defined Yes, and very quickly and you I guess you have to be very aware with that because these are pretty complex characters We're not emotionally conversational. Yeah, that's a good point Yeah, and but it has to be there somewhere Yes, and part of that dynamic between them is as they both get older, you know, wins would become you know more insistent that that Steve is Possible is capable of emotionally connecting. Yes, she is and she's also she's she's begun to realize that she has allowed him too much Right.
She's carrying a burden. Yeah, she's not she allowed him to behave like that and she's she says herself She's complicit in the way that he's behaved to all his daughter And that he has to make that make right make that right because all the success in the world and he is about to hit staggering success with The launch of the iMac which is the third one you see and he's about to break through to everywhere Yeah, and change the world make the dent in the universe He talks about and she says that's no good unless you have made peace with actually those who love you in a way that is more Important than all the product people love you what's kind of brilliant and risky that you hung the resolution of your movie on a fairly intimate moment That that you could have how many times did you have to I don't want to spoil anything for anybody? But you know you get this whole arc of history and the guy that changed the world with his technology and his persistence and his genius for for design and marketing and and And just a salesmanship yes, but the whole balance of the film emotionally is really hanging on those last two scenes Yes, and the last thing is not even spoken. Yeah.
Yeah, yeah That's that's the wonderful thing about stepping behind the structure you step behind the scenes of three product launches because in a way You're saying because we're behind the screen anything could happen, you know, and we make a wrong You know, I'm sure those things didn't actually take place factually with the clock ticking Yeah, but they feel true. Yeah, he's very good at devices I think that like you know like circling with his experience with writing television is very good at pacing and also good at adding a level of Menace you're just it even if just we always start on time. Yeah, there's a pacing Keep saying that about we can't start like we can't start like what time is it right stuff like that? Yeah, he's very good at those mechanisms.
Did you get along with him? So okay, yeah, I did actually yeah, very tricky reputation Yeah, you know what's been a stickler for no changes and stuff like that I heard they gave that to him. Did they give that to them? How do you mean give it to him?
I mean he was able to do this movie with with fairly autonomy No, I mean it was like I mean I I I directly gets final cop if you look it not that it means that much ultimately It's a bit of an illusion that thing but but I have that I'm looking after that as a writer But as a writer you wouldn't get that he may have got that on his TV series But you wouldn't get that on the movie, but he no one fucked with the script. It was just you guys No, he did because I changed it. Yeah, we we we discussed changes with any do them and then when the actors come on board He's incredibly flexible when he knows they got the rhythm of it right and can and he can hear them They know it's wrong. He's actually he's a he's a theatre person.
He's a collaborator He loved to make changes so he was on set the whole time. Yeah, we had another whole time and I like I like your choice Yeah, well, I like writers being around. Oh, I try I mean most of them don't want to in the end because it is pretty boring Even if you love your work as much as Aaron loves it on work, you know, it still can be very very tedious to murder repetition and stuff like that But no, he was around the whole time and I loved him in a round here Well, it's interesting that you talk about theater because you come from theater, right originally yeah, and it's also interesting in this movie No, the other ones aren't quite that but I mean I want to talk about the other movies and styles in a second But a lot of these took place in theaters. Yes.
Yeah. No, I'm sure that's why rooting rooting who knows I'm a kind of Originally a theatre guy and I did a play in London called Frankenstein Which was a bit of a hit and sure rooting thought oh, you know the whole thing is a thing. He'll be suitable stuff like that But I'm a big I got into theatre. I asked was a cinema lover But I couldn't when I come from in Britain.
There's no way you could get into cinema I mean just couldn't where was it I come from Manchester? Which is an industrial turn in the North West of England and I come from a working-class background and it's all really there's no real Routine I mean there's lots of it. You're Irish, right? Yeah, originally I'm yeah, the family's all Irish Really Scott?
Well, really Scott is from a working-class background in the North East of England and he got in so there are ways You can do it, but it doesn't look like you can Into the theater It's interesting you bring up really Scott because there is something you guys have in common that you're incredibly proficient amazing directors But but you can really adapt to material that like some directors They're like it's my point of view and then the material will run through my vision Yeah, but it seems that you guys are open enough and confident enough to take on material and then suit the direction to the material Oh good. Well, thank you. No, I mean I'm I'm a sense. Yeah.
Yeah, it does actually I'm I kind of I love telling different stories if I can and the terror is that they're all the same you think they're all different You want them to be different and I see something comes up to you says the same films last time is it? They point out certain features and you go. Oh, right? Okay.
Yeah, that's when you go. That's my style guys got style I suppose you're worried about because you make a big thing about coming to see my films a lot They'll all be different. You'll have a surprise You know the law feel very different and of course in reality They don't because you're just forging just one story all the time unfortunately anyway But is it one story? I mean do you like I mean it seems that you've made some fairly diverse films and and there is a you seem to be heavy on the The the denium on the again the catharsis and usually it's not gonna end badly I like it like Raymond Chandler said every every work of art there must be a quality of redemption and I believe that I think there is a Redentive it is a redemptive experience cinema the journey that you go on and that if you can engineer it without it being a If you can let it emerge from the story without it being fake that's an important ingredient in it that journey that lift you get as you Come out the cinema.
I like that. Well, that's what that's a type of cinema Right because I can theater that's certainly not always the case. No no by no means It's almost not I mean musical theater and stuff like that It's a key ingredients in but regular theater. No, you're right dramatic theater.
No often not in fact quite the opposite I got you a lot of times you walk out of theater going oh, I was complete Myself So you're going up in Manchester. What kind of family have big family? I got two sisters I got twin I'm a twin and I come from a very Catholic family That's a big big fake factor in my upbringing is very Catholic upbringing It was a factor in the way that you bought it because you had to and that eventually you pushed back Yeah, and my mom got bless her. Yeah, um, she wanted me to be a priest more than anything in the world.
Is that true? Oh god, why do they want that? What do I don't understand? Have you thought it through like why would a mother say like this is because I think you're gonna be safe What is it?
I suppose it's kind of it sanctifies you in her eyes. It would sanctify her son who she loved and have him sanctified in her eyes Would also you know despite whatever happiness you might want to have in his wife. Yeah, it's more important to be sanctified Pretty social service. She was sure, you know, there was a goodness in it in well And her view of the Catholic Church was that it was a good thing that served the community There's been it's like a very very checkered history Which I'm glad my mom wasn't really aware of before she passed away.
There's apparently a lot of people were not aware of it Most people anyway. Yeah, anyway, so so I and it's weird. There are a number of film directors very famous ones My school say see is one who were gonna be priests as well as I believe. What were you really gonna do it?
I mean it's all 14 Yeah, I was gonna I was gonna go to the seminary which is where you and then I was educated by a priest I was at school run by priests a salision school and this one priest said to me I don't think you're cut out for it, you know, I'd wait a bit. Why do you think he said that because I think he saw that? girls Picasso, yeah, all these things were on the horizon and I was gonna just be like, you know after that the castle of our things. Well, you know, ah Cigarettes all the stuff, you know Temptation all the seven deadly all the stuff is over.
Yeah, he thought he's probably one for that rather than Seems like you're gonna have a different struggle different Different fighter head of you, but it's very interesting because being a priest is like directing because you ponc around really telling everybody what to do and think Yeah, which is what priests do sure and you're kind of like and it's like a congregation making a film It's a lot of people who put their faith in you for a while right and they often lose it quickly take years Yeah, but they follow you for a bit right into the wilderness. Yeah, they want like a movie If everyone walked out of a of a service feeling like it was a theatrical reduction I don't know that the church would last that long but they went the other way there is I mean that story that you're talking about Redemptive redemption that that is what Catholicism supposed to be about in a way. Yeah, but long term A long time away a long time and you got a really some danger disbelief Judgment day. Yeah, it's kind of could be anywhere.
Yeah, that's not a big ticket seller. Yeah, just wait Could be a thousand years could be a hundred but did you find that when you were in the church? I mean, I don't know what size church you were in as a kid, but like when I traveled through Italy and some of Europe I mean those churches were designed to blow peasants brains out. They were designed to sort of like oh my god Yeah, no those things I mean Spain and Italy those things are built by generations of families and brilliant artists Yeah, and they put you would spend like a like your grandfather and your father and your children would work on the same Edith is building it over hundreds of years.
I mean they were extraordinary. No, I didn't come from anything like that We had a brick built on a fairly functional church But we know I was expected to be there every day which I was and I was an altar boy Yeah, you know serving on the altar. Yeah, so yeah, so and I used to have to wake the priest up So I go down for seven o'clock mass and he wouldn't be up. You know because he was a drinker I realized all this stuff in retrospect Right and I'd have to ring the bell and get him up in order to do the service and he'd come out and he'd have slippers on under his casset Yeah, cuz I was kneeling down I could see a eye level that is slippers still on the way You can go back to bed in a couple hours probably did yeah Think of your confessions hit the sack So when did you uh when did you start to get involved with um, you know theater or arts in general?
I used to do school. I used to do the assemblers every every week There'd be a morning assembly on the Monday and there'd be bits of kind of I guess they were kind of like displays And I used to do bits of drama for them and I'd organize them I didn't realize that was directing basically you're organized people do you do this you do that and we should do these skits about the catholic church actually Well, a miracle skitz or yes Yeah, and see what we could get away with because you know you were getting Who was seeing how far you could push it if you got dragged into the headmaster's office about what you were doing sure So I used to do that and then and then the English I had a brilliant English teacher You know, it's the usual thing who just you know introduces you to Shakespeare and you know and what was it? What was the one thing that made you go like oh my god? Oh, I think with him it was actually falling off it was I went to an old boy school taught by priests this guy was a secular guy Yeah, but he taught us Jane Austen and one of the worst Jane Austen novels, which is called Northanger Abbey It's just a terrible yeah, he's got 30 16 year old lads there Yeah, and he's persuading you of the genius of Jane Austen and he persuaded me and I remember thinking at the time This is a lot where my mates I thought he is this guy is amazing because he's somehow bringing everybody to bring everybody together on this and anyway It's a lovely ending the story There's a bit of redemption in this story Yeah, because he encouraged me to do drama and I went to college and did drama and then I had a few successes in the theatre And I directed eventually at the Royal Shakespeare Company And I he'd retired by then and I wrote to him and I said do you want to come and see a production?
I've done one of your you know, I'm one of your pupils from long ago and I've done a production at the Royal Shakespeare Company And he came down and watched it and it was and I've done some dodgy productions But this one was a really good one. Yeah, this one worked really worked and he came along and he was so proud Oh, it was really nice, you know, yeah, and he died about a year later passed away about a year later So I was really proud I did that because he was like he kind of changed my life And it was nice to actually show him that you know because he loved the Royal Shakespeare Company to have one of his pupils Yeah, I bet directing on the Royal Shakespeare Company in Stratford was pretty good. So it was a pretty good day That's amazing. Yeah, and he came backstage and yeah, he did all the stuff.
You know stuff you do so he's very it was lovely Yeah, it's a beautiful story. So you went to college for theatre No, I went to a regular like we call him universities and I went to not a prestigious one at all one in North Wales Bangerine North Wales, which is kind of like a touch to England on the side of England Yeah, I went there and we did a lot of drama and English and lots of acting I did acting at first and then I started to realize Directing was and I started to do plays with other students. How are you as an actor loud? Which is all you needed to be really?
That's I'm really loud and confident over confident because I have not many skills other than the volume Yeah, but um so and I began to direct and I began to tell people what to do which you get addicted to so terrible trade Yeah, there's a certain real confidence in leadership that it has to I guess eventually occur depending on what kind of director you are I guess it must take a bit of time to learn how to be diplomatic and respectful and still go to what you want done Yeah involves cunning that yeah, you have to have a certain amount of low animal cunning To get what you want when you can't go those it just with brucellism alone. You have to use other techniques Yeah, I guess some directors as I get more respected and deliver enough You know money-making products can become pretty brutal they can there is there is that's a character trait amongst some directors It says I don't share that yeah, but it was interesting doing the jobs because he clearly had that You know there was an element of that in him as he tried to change the world He did it through Slashing and burning everything in his path, you know and refusing to acknowledge the past Which is you see in the film on a personal level? These daughter and obviously on a on a on a product level with it with his resistance to walls and was wanting to acknowledge the apple Too and that he's standing on the shoulders of giants But he only focuses the future you know and trying to change the mindset about computers So all right, so where do you go right after college? You start working in theater and television or what?
I went to I got a job in theater I wrote away to a theatre company who toured Britain Yeah, quite a political company called joint stock theatre company and I asked if they had a job and I got a job as a driver And this is very it promotes internally if you get on well You can become more than a princess to what you want to be right within the within the system itself because it's all been about You know you just move on to jobs your job, so I that's a classic Shakespearean sort of model Everyone's involved the collaboration begins driving driving. Yeah driving the truck sweeping the stage M Absolute confidence to do one it is like a benchmark for a theatre director. It's like can you do it? Mm-hmm, you know, so no, I've never done one yet, but watch this space.
Who knows I might get offered one Do you still direct here? I do do occasionally are directed I was just mentioning that we did the show Frankenstein in the National Theatre in London Which was a bit come about change people know about know and Johnny Lee Miller and they swap the parts of Frankenstein and the creature every night They kind of switch parts. Oh really? Which is very cool.
It was a trip down was a more of a no it was big production I mean it was like a spa but big yeah, so was there makeup with the monster and yeah, there were stitches and stuff like that was interesting Because it was it was actually the first it was the first time as far as we could find that the story had ever been told from the creature's point of view So it's a grendel which is weird. Yeah, you never you never kind of it's such an extraordinary character in our mythology now In our cultural mythology and yet he had never been right Sean from his perspective. Yeah the sensitivity of the And also only being born into adulthood because that's weird It was like a birth, but an adult is being born. Uh-huh.
So that was a fantastic process for the stage to to illustrate that story on the stage Oh, that's interesting. It was well received. It was good. Yeah, yeah, and then when you start working with the cameras So I went to Northern Ireland.
I couldn't get here. So 75 Yeah, and I was in Ireland. No, no, no 75 85 to 89 was it? Yeah, it was it wasn't the worst time there, but it was you know there was tension serious tension It's an amazing place in Northern Ireland because the BBC I got a job with the BBC making television drama with them there and they the people Lovely speak.
I love Ireland. I was just there. I don't you know I'm a Jew from Eastern European background. I go to Ireland.
There's like I think I'm home I was a buzzable. It's it's it's it's why they produce such great writers people talk to tell you stories the sense of chat Yeah, crack. Oh, yeah, it's just and just such an endless is just just beautiful. It's very beautiful Yeah, anyway, but there was this terrible and I must admit I when I left I thought I don't think they'll ever change that I can't see how it will ever get resolved the differences right and astonishingly because it's rare to say this about politicians They did they changed and they found an accommodation with each other and it's you know, there's still some problems But they're landscaping has changed it's unrecognizable now, you know, and they've managed to establish some harmony amongst the communities Which is astonishing so but I learned camera stuff there.
Yeah, and you work for the BBC in Northern Ireland doing TV John's one hour TV John's working with Irish actors. Well, I was a matter of time. Yeah, maybe that's where it all began Yeah, and that's probably right on stage. Yeah, and there was something about there I guess it's probably their humanity really because like, you know, when you talk the way you're talking about fast-minded Is he pronounced a fast-bender or fast-bender fast-bender fast-bender so because it's interesting he's Germany grew up in Ireland But there's there's one of the things with actors and I think with very well-trained actors is that sometimes there's there's there's not a lot of Interior life Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, but that's not necessarily a negative thing I mean their talent is their talent I mean there's obviously talent and there but there you know some in some of them are more characters than others But but I think what happened what you're trying to what we're trying to pinpoint before is that in Ireland that you know Just by nature of being a citizen of that place.
There's an inner life in a way and a poetry. Yeah, they're ordinary poets They always say that a slight darkness to the soul. Yeah, which will come with the poetry But they're ordinary poets to feel like they're not it's not a class structure right society They feel like ordinary people and yet the poets as well at the same time They've always had that and I love that about them Where as you often to find that kind of romantic in a British actor It's often in the closet and you're just kind of bring it out encourage you know It's always there with the Celtic actors. I think right right up front.
Yeah, you get it with them Yeah, I mean if you if you work with them well, and it's why when they often it's not true with Michael But often when they leave their accent behind they sacrifice a lot because right thing with the act I think what you're talking about really hits on is that when there's a class structure that you know in in England And certainly that you do have some of that organic kind of in it's a unique human connection of conversation that happens in the lower classes Yes, and then once you start moving up There's a super careful. Yeah, much more careful because you worry about the impression you make and we're saying the wrong thing All that kind of stuff losing power all that stuff kicks in yeah, wow and we riddled with it in Britain and in England Especially in still where Scotland which is just elected its own party to virtually dominate the Scottish Nationalist Party Which is campaigning for independence and extraordinary will be a seismic moment if it happens You know where the United Kingdom is it's called is yeah, wrenched apart Scotland has not taken part Scotland has begun their own conversation about their future I know which is very exciting. Yeah to witness is very worrying for England because we'll be a much smaller place without the sculpts And and and and we cling cold with a bit of island Northern Island, but island remains are huge I mean, there's so many people are so many people are Irish in Britain anyway I mean working class areas because the immigration into Britain from Ireland was enormous my parents came you know Mm-hmm fifties and you know and very many many many of them make a better way. Yeah, well, I noticed one thing about Ireland There's not a lot of immigrants coming in well.
It's kind of reversed I believe it's actually has it has changed because it's actually yeah It's reimagined itself in a more calms metropolitan way. Uh-huh. Gobleen's quite a bit more metropolitan notes And they encouraged artists to come to so there has been a has gone back the other way a little bit But are they mostly expats or people that have a millial connection to Ireland? I mean, I didn't get the sense that there's a lot of people from other countries Sort of an Ireland issue there Yeah, people with cultural heritage there.
Yeah, oh double. It's great. It's a beautiful hotel It's a nice hotel. I stayed in my hotel my entire trip.
That was great So so you start making movies what inspired you to make you know that you can make movies? I know it's an arugans really isn't it I guess like where you're from your guys who are your directors that you were like this You know this seems possible to me and this is what I want to do well I used to go to this obviously I was like 16 something and I was in searches you always are of sex really Yeah, anyway, you can still that doesn't stop it doesn't stop But I used to go to cinema because there was someone off of there Mm-hmm, you know and I looked older than 16 Because in Britain to get into an ex-film or a film an adult right had to be 18 and I looked older than my mates So I used to buy the tickets and we'd all sneak in but I used to go to this art cinema in Manchester called the apron cinema Thank God for those artists in this I know and they choose to show these incomprehensible films I really didn't understand yeah, but they often had lashings of sex in them Mm-hmm. Look what the time movies are. Oh, yeah, a lot of movies French movies a Spanish movie nada Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, but why've learned subsequently anyway?
I did love them as well. Yeah something about them that I that I there's something very very special about them And what's he called top of El Topo? Yeah, El Topo. I'm seeing that and but and I've subsequently learned from his biography I think that Morrissey from Smith's also there exactly the same time Wow because I'm exactly the same age as him Yeah, and he was obviously on the same trajectory of looking for something that wasn't there in your life And we found it in the Aben Senemerin to dark searchers.
Yeah the poets Anyway, so I did that and then and then oh the big thing was I saw clop of orange. Oh, yeah before it was banned because it was banned in Britain Well, that's interesting clockwork orange because it seems to me that if I think about it just impulsively now that that sort of informs train spotting a little bit Big time stylistic. Oh big time. Yeah, it was a huge kind of like I mean we copied large sections of his film Oh really?
And the way you borrow is a homage is anything whatever so mostly in the cutting and the humor, right? Yes, right. Yes, it had that kind of sense of that black humor Mm-hmm, so um that was a big practicing that and then and then as I said I went into theater But I always wanted to do cinema and I continued that relationship with you know And through the Northern Island process I began to learn how to use a camera at the BBC there and then eventually I got a movie called shallow grave These guys had written the script and they were looking for a director And they've had a couple of conversations with people which they haven't enjoyed and I went in and I told the truth Which is I said I've used stolen large sections of blood simple and simply changed the background and the rice is sort of nodded Yes, I was true And I said I think we should do more stealing from other places and no we we found an affinity of the fact that we were gonna make Something for the new energy in cinema that there was in independent cinema was which was both original but delicious as well What year was it that was like 94? Yeah, yeah, I got 94 yeah, so okay So the comments it started to make their first couple of movies and the new independent cinema was sort of happening in America Oh, I know it yeah, and it was delicious because it was because it was interesting and it was also Accessible and attractive and had a witness and a scurrilousness that was like delicious like I said right and what what was your relationship with Irving?
You know Welsh the entrance playing how that kind about well we made this on show great which did quite well Right. It was a big hit in France weird French love films were friends fall out with each other and start killing each other They loved films about you know a bunch of friends disintegrating this is pre this is pre this is pre pre redemption Yes, there was a much redemption in that there was a bit of happiness, but it was entirely selfish But then we read this book train spotted right which was a cult book around Scotland at the time Yeah, not many copies of it around and we really oh yeah, it was a very small book. Huh? It's a very difficult book to read wonderful brutal.
It's like Joyce. It's like you know, it's like Finnegan's wake or Or we listen but with heroin. It's just like a masterpiece I think anyway We said we're gonna make this is our next film and they said we were crazy because we'd had this hit it It'd done very well and everybody wanted us to make another one and as they do But we wanted to use the advantage we'd got from that success to make something that appeared very on commercial because drug movies basically Don't really attract an audience, but we wanted to make a film that actually show partly the truth of it Which is that people don't take drugs because they're stupid they take drugs because actually they supply something in their lives that it's necessary and often Enjoyed and they're addicted or certain ones of them do yeah anyway So it's a fascinating process that's in that up yet yeah and in the comedy of it I mean the balance of the empathy necessary to humanize you know what it really is you know desperate drug addicts at times Yeah, you know is tricky because they are the most because they're so at the whim of this of their of their needs There is a humanity to oh god. Yeah, that's yeah Yeah, and you say they'll do anything they naked in front of you always yeah like and you relate to that in front of them Because you think I got but for the grace of God that might be me yeah, right Yeah And but to sort of engage it with humor and the path those necessary to not romanticize it is not it's not easy right But you know very quickly became like you know This is hilarious these people are troubled and and there's a there's a slapstick to it But but you don't walk out of the thing like I gotta do some dope I know I know and we had that struggle early on There were a lot of critics said we were encouraging the use of you know Everybody wants to shit the bed and let a kid die I know so it was it's so it had a kind of had an internal it's weird You know some of the films you make they have an energy in themselves.
Yeah almost beyond everybody else But I think you're very good at letting that happen that you know identifying that and let the film be defined by that instead of fighting That and having a structure that like we can't you know I have to control this right yeah, well They there's a great what's his name? Bertolucci said you should always leave a door open on your set for real life to come in Oh, because you can get to occupied with the whole right edifice of it And he also you should make sure and that was very much the feel of Transpotting is we would allow it in I don't mean literally like mumble call realism or something like that But you would allow in the ridiculousness of real life to burst through sometimes Yeah, and I think it does a lot and I think that the amazing thing about your careers and you know after transpotting you do a peculiar movie With the life less ordinary which is completely like what what's happening with this guy? Is he still searching for his voice? Wait, so that's an example when you so what I learned on that movie So we were very pleased with ourselves.
We thought the film was very Cohen esque You know all right right so you have a car as a yeah, and anytime you do anything that's esque you're in trouble Because the only says are stupid they go well this is Cohen esque I'll go and watch the original rather than this one you know I'll go and watch the original guys It's like yeah Hitchcock get up it or Cohen s people their critics are that no well It wasn't very popular film no we went to see it although no and this is true They always there's a rule a kind of and it's probably like a something that you hang on to like a life jacket when you're drowning But when you have a movie that's a big hit there's always one territory Mm-hmm, but it doesn't work in right conversely then this is the life jacket there when you have a disaster There's always one territory where it appears to work for some reason right and lifeless ordinary was number one in Belgium for three weeks Uh-huh, which is amazing for a lot of disaster everywhere. I don't know I think they were just had a thing for Cameron Diaz I'm sorry Streets of it and so you found sort of like you and McGregor was a was a good leading man for you for a couple movies Oh, he was yeah wonderful guy He's a lovely little man and then you go and then you do the beach with the caprio Which was there's big expectations on that movie. Yeah, we got a little kicking on that movie You know you just get a kicking and only it's quite good. It's quite good for you learn a lot You know you learn a lot otherwise you can them to repeat your mistakes So you're allowed to keep working yes, I know somehow but that's a real testament to your talent I think that because you did such a diversity of film so efficiently that they're like you know This guy boy will come around.
I'm just more persistent. I can put up with more shit than most people. I was just gonna keep going I was just gonna keep going I'm Irish thing a lot of it is just a sense. Seriously.
You just gotta keep going. Yeah, so the first you know after Train spotting 28 days later was the big hit. Yes, that did very well. Yeah, I mean I get I went to see it I'm not even a zombie guy.
I know I wasn't a zombie guy either Yeah, I was become a zombie guy because the writer was Alex Garland. He's a he knew everything about the zombies You know he was absolutely an aficionado Mm-hmm just and I couldn't be bothered really I try to watch some of them and I didn't get it really but we had this idea and we wanted To make them in a different way and we set out to make Yeah, we set out to make a film but in a funny kind of way wasn't about zombies and we kept saying we refused to call them zombies and But what would you call what would you call and what would it be infected? Yeah the effect right? You know right it seems a very small difference But it was an important one to me and it doesn't matter what you think the world then takes over and that's happens with movies Yeah, the world grabs your movie and they decide what it's about weirdly Mm-hmm and they decided right this is the Renaissance this is the beginning of the Renaissance of zombies I think it was dead and it was suddenly it was everywhere after yeah, you did that to us well No, it's your fault brought them back.
What was the humanity that you saw in them? That was not a redemptive movie necessarily either. No, it's it's it's it was about a family really a Weird mixture of family this these four people brought together who traveled their own Britain trying to save themselves So it was a kind of that for me was there's a wonderful bit in it We had a great couple of Irish actors again killing Murphy played the lead amazing and a guy called Brendan Gleeson is one of the great great Elderly actors. He's not a little easy.
He's in his six. Yeah, I think but and late 50s And he yeah, he was the redemptiveness for me, you know He's because he gets infected and he makes sure he saves his daughter even though he's infected he surprises himself So the way moments were redemption and that's yeah, that's it So you saw that as a theater person and as a guy loves a good story that the human element has to sort of transcend somehow always You've got to do that. Yeah, you're always looking for that because you know in the two I was journey of a film you can do so much with style and cleverness and all that but if the heart is not there it's very Very tough, but I also like the difference I think there is a difference because in your films and certainly as you grow as an artist that that Redemption doesn't necessarily mean a perfectly happy end. No, not so there's just a there's a possibility.
Yes Yes, there's something that makes you feel right you can keep but you can make you feel good about yourself Yeah, and even yeah, and even in swumdog, you know that you know the menace of that movie and I think that's a great testament in my mind To how you evolved as a director, you know being able to find the humanity and you seem to have a tremendous respect for writers visions Which I think is amazing But that you know stylistically you're not going to sort of just pigeonhole yourself and then when you look at swumdog millionaire You start to think like not only is are you collaborative as a director? But but you know you were willing to incorporate and I imagine employing many people from from Indian cinema to sort of get that feeling of Bollywood and to really make that work dance numbers and everything else but it was almost like it must have been the most profound collaboration You've had I was amazing because we we made we made a foreign film before we've been to Thailand to make the beach Yeah, and we've taken hundreds of crew from the UK and it's a bit it's a model for making films It doesn't work that anymore. It's almost like a past era like a colonialism in a way, right? Just going like this is a location.
Right. Right. Right. Right.
Maybe all this money is like a plug lips now Yeah, that's kind of and what we decided to do with some look it's a lot easier to do somewhere because it has got a huge industry Bollywood is a huge industry there. We took hardly anybody there were eight of us went and we everybody else was from Indian cinema and the actors the crew and it was wonderful and you have to allow yourself to Give yourself over to the city. You can't control this city. It's one of the world's again Happen yeah, and it just comes in I mean you can try and hold it back.
Why would you like some crazy guy? But you're not gonna succeed so yeah, and it's like for me I you know I've gone through periods in my life where I was more cynical and more dark and and was a I would not indulge the happy ending or you know like I thought like that's so that's lying But you know as you get older you're sort of like you know You know the heart needs to be fed a little bit it does if it's not being fed out in the world Maybe that's part of what movies are for like you're saying and I hate it when it's cheap Yeah, and I I remain cynical about when it's cheap and too easy like that because it should be earned and when it's earned It's then it really is something for everyone when it's earned and you could just get somebody you couldn't help it end on a dance number Right well, it was like you just have to have it We had another rig done somewhere in the film and it's anyway if you're in India and you got a Indian cinema Everybody experiences everything through the dance right? I mean, it's just like pop music here You just it's part of your it's part of your expansion It's just how you think right in your brain is you thinking dance you know there just do you know everybody lays like that and the kids We were auditioning the kids and they show you dance moves. Oh, you had to do it, you know and so you got to do it Yeah, and you did it for the credits basically.
Yeah, we put it at the credits Honor honor the nation. Yes, so you go from there to like this is another weird choice It's like now we got a guy stuck in the rock. Oh, yeah, I don't lost an hundred twenty seven hours Yeah, so what you're eating that project after something is grand as a swum dog million It was that it was the change really that it was such such a massive scale working in Mumbai Mm-hmm suddenly be trapped in a box with this guy. Oh, you like the challenge.
Oh, yeah, because it is a big challenge Can you especially the way we wanted to tell the story which is hardly to leave the canyon until he does so literally be immersed in the Experience with your idea that was the idea. Yeah, but your idea to shoot it that way Yes, it was as opposed to sort of maybe go to the panicky family or to to sort of yeah He's book is but the book is based on his in alternating chapters between the family at home And worrying about him and stuff like that and then we decided to exclude all that and just focus on the experience in the canyon itself It's all the way you got released from it You would be you would get some understanding of why I also thought that you'll never really understand if it's conventional You'll never really understand the experience of how you can go and show hard to yeah Yeah, but if you were there for six days with him you'd think just we want to be able to think do it just do it just do it Yeah, you step back and there's an amazing moment Frank. Oh, it's incredible That's amazing. I'm always does cut his arm off and he steps back and the acting Frank Or doesn't that moment where he steps away from something has been a chain two for six days and about to die and so he's released Part of it let a part of himself go in order to be released from it.
Yeah. Yeah, and it was it's a hard movie. Yeah. Yeah, it is People for it's off to watch.
I remember going I was really thrilled so we were a multi-knit and they decided to do a Ironically given the subject of our reason for they decided to do a screening of it at the Pixar so I went up there and I was so thrilled to be running a Pixar to love their movie It's just like unbelievable so we drove up and they I turned up for a Q&A after the film So the film was showing so I turned up like ten minutes before the end and there were ambulances outside Pixar The screening room for a couple of people is fainted. Oh my god We were we did have a lot of people fainting but it's weird because the feinting it which feels like very shocking and worrying I was with I was in some cinemas and people would faint and they be carried out and I saw them outside and one particular woman I saw her wake up and she went she looked at me and said oh hello She just reached a point where she just kind of just lost consciousness for a bit and then she was fine Well, there are those people that can't see certain things yeah So yeah, and they and that's what happens and usually they tend to avoid those things But obviously it's a testament to the power the movie like this is my problem. I gotta go finish I gotta not do it again So the the jobs movie in your mind I tell you that third act is pretty amazing It's not because we have because it's it's genuine you can like the guys ambition and his persistence, but as a human being he's he's almost contemptible Yes, there's a certain he's difficult to like isn't he? I mean there were people who devoted to him, but by the evidence when she presents it and certainly Michael's performance Which is uncompromising it's fine It's difficult within the realms of cinema to find him likeable right such but then he begins to become apart He begins to be pulled apart and you begin to find that he begins to be you know, it's it is she experience like he has a flaw And fortunately he he arrives at a place where he can acknowledge it and he can hold his hand up I wonder if that happened in real life.
Does anyone know I think you can as much as we know I think you can see that he did mellow yeah, and and he had it's not our concern in this film He obviously had a family three children and a very successful and and marriage And so he clearly did mellow and from what we do know is that Lisa was although she she Relationship with him was still volatile. She became part of that family and they were reconciled. Yes Yeah, because that's seen on the roof when you talk about flawed again I want to spoil the movie for anybody you know The whole movie you know outside of all this changing the world and the images of Lenin and Einstein and and The sort of his knowledge of the power of what he was about to do or what he was destined to do It all pales you know Nothing was gonna resolve the story like that thing on the roof in the moment with her backstage Yes, and he's got a kind of and it's unspoken in a way He says one thing about it and then you got it I was the idea because talking is obviously all dialogue and the whole thing He's just a tidal wave of incredible dial yeah, and but then it's all stripped back because there's nothing more for him to say Well, whose decision was it that was I was decision really we move towards that with you Discussion about it. Yeah, we wanted it to become more strict back as the film went on it becomes more and more strict back And eventually you're left with there's nothing much I mean he does say one thing which he's when he holds his hand up effectively to acknowledge that despite all the amazing products that He's made which are perfect as we know in many ways.
He is himself poorly made so and that's a beautiful moment And this is similar like an theme to to the Facebook movie, isn't it the lineage you can see the lineage about communication emotion Distancing these people who make these things that enable the world to communicate instantly and perfectly with each other are themselves Poorly made sure and what was it what was some of the biggest problems yet overcoming making this film about Steve Jobs? Oh god, there was we we lost a studio we Had a good time the whole Sony hack and Seth Rogen's battle with the North Koreans And he was and all that was going on and so it was very very complicated and we've not it's not been easy Because there's been a lot of forces prefer you not to make the film really right he belongs to a very powerful company Yeah, you know which has which has control issues about keeping the control of the image and the story of him and the myth of him But it's really important to tell these stories because governments are frightened of these companies now You know, they're so powerful so quickly that I see in Britain uber which was only launched in 2009 is already worth $50 billion and it comes into Britain and the government's like this Yeah, what to do? I'm setting the local industry, but we don't want to do we don't want to resist progress and such prosperity and and so if governments like that And the law we know is manipulable depending on how rich you are Therefore artists should write about these guys and so for soaking to write about these two guys So closely together like that is an important is an important element the American and talking is one of your national writers I think he really is absolutely should address these big big guys and in a way what he's doing is it's not scurrilous It's not defaming people. It's actually bringing them back down to earth and actually they remember they become part of us again You know because they do have a flaw that we all have I think that's true that's a tough to work on you I can certainly appreciate that and so through all the problems you and so I can remain, you know solid Yeah, we can have kept it very simple That there's part of you have to be almost naive in your belief.
Yeah, if you get too sophisticated you can it won't happen Right, you can have remain almost childish in a belief that it can happen And if we keep going it'll it'll work and you do keep going like an apple Did they lay down preconditions or do you know what eventually led them to to say like okay? We're okay with it. I don't think they ever did And I thought Seth was great wasn't he you know is a good role for him. Oh, he is don't tell me something about Seth Yeah, so he's playing a guy.
Yeah, who's a guy who is an engineering genius It's an old-use word genius when you're promoting films, right? But he is an engineering genius, okay, and he believes he says to jobs You can be decent and gifted at the same time and we got this actor who's known as a comedian and he's a comedy genius Seth Rolke. Yeah, he's also like Wozniak. He's a decent man as well He really is a dis-wife and so when he says that in this performance you get that sense of a genius there Someone very special albeit in a slightly different area of the drama world But he's also a decent person and he's decent and gifted at the same time and when he says that to him it really it really Begins the pull apart jobs.
I think you know he begins to see some of his you know deficiencies Oh, yeah that relationship and the little thing that they say to each other You know that little he sort of is very good at these repetitions of things that that really ground characters and interactions And also the guy who plays obviously Winslow's amazing and the guy from a serious man who played a Stowbog, Mike Stowbog. Really great. Oh another you know just all heart. Oh my god.
What a performance. Oh, yeah Really a stunning Yeah, it's some great acting in it. You know and it's a great it's a great story as well And it's non-stop and it's you go from the kind of like this He's a punk at the beginning almost like tearing apart everything that stands in his way and then he goes through the second part That's a pile and cunning. Oh, Jeff Daniels says what's his name?
And he has that same with Jeff Jones Scully? Yeah, he's like so great. He's such a like he's not underrated But he's always good to see him in films. Yes, it is.
And what's the new project you're working on? Transplanting to no. Yes, really? Yeah, they're all back.
They will be okay, okay And what's it called? Well, if we can get James Cameron to agree it's called T2. Oh really? Come on.
No seriously We're doing it. It's 20 years later. Okay, and they're still together. We got this amazing script by the original writer John Hodge you did the original screenplay.
Okay, and yeah, we're gonna do that next. All right. Well, it's great talking to you know, you got to get going And uh, thanks for coming by. Mark.
Thank you. It was lovely If we pack some stuff into that I believe we did good conversation good guy good movie and I mean I'm not I don't have to say that I go see it again. I'm gonna probably have to see it again because the girl didn't see it so uh What do we got? What do we got the oh, yeah, the music remix of my uh of my riffage on today's show is done by paul buck Check him out at facebook.com slash paul buck music.
Go to wtf pod.com for all your wtf pod needs Here's a little heads up more brine jones's wtf hand thrown mugs are on sale this monday December 14 at 12 noon Eastern 9 a.m. Pacific make sure you go to brinerjones.com at that time if you want one Oh, the holidays are upon us. They're upon us. Can I play some fucking music?
Oh