All right, let's do this. How are you? What the fuckers? What the fuck buddies?
What the fuck sticks? What the fucking ears? What's happening? What is happening?
This is Mark Marin. This is WTF my podcast. Welcome to it. If you're new to it Brian Grazer is on the show today Brian Grazer is a film producer, but not just a producer I mean you would be astounded and amazed at how many movies and television shows this guy has been involved with I mean life-defining for you not him, but maybe for him movies and TV shows.
It's insane It's insane all the way back to night shift and splash the first couple of movies that he I think he produced solo all the way through I mean he did you know the doors back draft see before Apollo 13 the nutty professor ransom I mean like I could keep go a beautiful mind blue crush eight mile Friday night lights the missing Cheese man the Da Vinci code American gangster great movie frostin ixen I mean it goes on and it's astounding the amount of work that this guy has done Amazing and he's only like 12 years older than me. He put a book out and sometimes these are uh, this is how I get into it You know this is how I get someone over here is they're doing some talking for a thing they got going on So Brian's got this book a curious mind the secret to a bigger life It sounds like a somewhat inspirational book, but it kind of is I mean this guy Brian Grazer this is it I'll tell you something I've never there's never been a WTF quite like this We I've never talked show business with a producer of his stature in the way that we talked about show business I mean if if you think like he's done great films. He's done films that were just money makers, but also well-made But it's a very diverse Filmography and TV young's involved in Empire then on TV 24. It's just kind of amazing But he is sort of a it was an interesting it was an interesting conversation in the way that you know business and it's just how Business and creativity coexist and in his case with you know in one human being I mean, it's it's just it's amazing how much he's done and and it's also like what you hear with Brian Grazer It's just a compulsion almost to work and and to be able to follow through on things and and maintaining you know good relationships He seems like a decent guy I mean you hear stuff about producers that you know they could be hardasses or whatever But this guy seems like a decent guy diplomatic guy and very persistent and constantly asking questions You know obviously he's made some you know blockbuster movies and he's looking to make money, but he's sort of compulsive about finding things that are interesting to people and And he got he has sort of on the pulse of that He's just a he's just a curious guy like it's one of those rare things where this book Which is a collection of of basically experiences?
He's had conversations with people that inspired him in you know in his search for for things But just some fascinating stories and just that side of the business I don't think I've had as thorough and as a an interesting and amazing conversation about you know show business from a guy who is Major show business and a decent dude. So look forward to that momentarily also. I want to say hi to all my unique listeners unique people Like I because I mentioned yeah, I've been reading some emails from people in odd places I got this was sort of exciting in its own way. This is hello, and thank you.
Hi, Mark I've been really enjoying your podcast especially hearing about the interesting and varied places you have listeners writing to you from I'm an archeologist working in England My job mostly involves working in the middle of a field mostly on my own You're one of my favorite comedians and listening to your podcast really makes excavating a Roman ditch or an iron age pit flyby She sent me some pictures and thanks Rebecca. Thank you Rebecca if you find anything cool Take a picture or send me the actual thing Rebecca from the pit don't I won't tell anybody but I'd like something from a Roman pit all right okay deal so Creative people just keep being creative. I mean that's something this Brian grazer episode will we'll sort of uh push through So many of us work towards and I don't even want to put myself in it Yeah, there's this idea that's sort of like you know, I just want to be positive I just want to be happy. I just want to be grounded.
I want these things You can be those things but like for Christ's sake don't be them before you fucking you know found your passion before you fucking you know Cut loose and you know follow that goddamn weird compulsive energy that chaotic creative energy or compulsive sort of I got to get things done energy The goal is not to be positive and happy All right, if everyone was positive and happy and well grounded there'd be no art There'd be no amazing There'd be no great That stuff comes from a different place. I mean you can have those other things once you've sort of you know You got it once you harness your creativity your passion your drive But don't let that be the means to an end at the at the at the price of the passion and drive and creativity Don't do that or else all the it all goes away all the greatness the art Goes away. You can create a good environment for that stuff to move through you. Maybe I don't maybe I'm talking out my ass But I just I don't want to live in the world where you go up to somebody.
Hey, hey, dude You see that thing that everyone's seeing yeah, I did see it. How was it? It's okay really just okay. Yeah, it's just okay Wasn't great.
Oh, there's no great anymore What? I'm gonna be in Chicago for a few days. I'm doing a thing. Maybe I'll maybe I'll maybe I'll do a an intro from Chicago and tell you What I'm doing in Chicago.
No live shows and not even be specific about what I'm gonna be in Chicago But I'm gonna be in Chicago But yeah, you know what I'm just gonna do that just gonna tease that like that Right now I'm talking to an amazing Dude in show business as I said before he's got a book out a curious mind the secret to a bigger life So available now you can see all of his movies all 900 of them of movies and TV shows He was involved with but it was really a pleasure to talk to him. So let's uh, let's enjoy together my conversation with Brian Grazer get on the mic will do the thing How your brain works are you like all right what am I getting into yeah, it's gonna happen now frame it up Yeah, I always need a framing all right. I'll give you a frame you can wear the cans Okay, and then and then we go it was interesting because I'm looking at this book a curious mind The secret to a bigger life and this is your book you wrote it with this guy Charles fishermen Brian Grazer We're the if I can be blunt where the fuck you have time You know you're producing everything in Hollywood and you're like now I'm gonna take a little time right a book What's it why you doing that well? I'm doing it originally did it because I thought I've done this for 30 years producing movies Well, I'm in television.
Yeah, I've been producing movies until over 30 years Yeah, but I've also in alignment with that I've met a new person every two weeks for 30 years without fail and I There are people that are they're not in the entertainment business So it's science medicine politics religion all art form you met them on purpose you're like I'm doing a thing Yeah, I'm doing on purpose on purpose. I'd write a letter I'd call I'd meet assistants of assistance and parking lots just to meet Jonas Salk or was the intention to write a book or just You're a weird fan of things. I'm a I was a weird fan of I grew up in a little tiny neighborhood where I'm much tinier than this by the way I went park. Yeah, it was in the van van eyes, but I didn't leave this my neighborhood I never left my neighborhood.
I see in the valley right here Yeah, but it was like the radius of three miles and I didn't go outside that radius as far as I could ride my bike is where I would go But for how long in your 30s or not? No until I until I got out of high school I went to college 17 miles from there which was USC on a grant I didn't really have the money to do that, but I went there, but basically I just I lived in a tiny little world and I weirdo I mean you were right here in Los Angeles, but I didn't know about it My parents my parents my dad was never around a good guy, but never around what you do criminal attorney right now in LA In LA so we kind of lived the life of a criminal while he was defending criminals. Oh really? Yeah, oh my god Well, he'd always you often more often got paid never without not money.
It was like IBM Selector typewriters He did a thing for the apple pan got like a thousand sandwiches. He threw him in a freezer with these sounds So thanks for getting me off buddy. Yeah, I got set yup. Yeah, I have no money But I thought I had money, but I don't have money, but I got these things in the trunk fish albacore frozen albacore That's what you remember is that funny the things you remember?
So you had like a freezer for frozen albacore. Oh, and you're eating to it for a month It's not exactly like that and the worst thing of course was venison. He made me we go to bridal Let's go this is where we're bonding. Yeah, so I didn't want to go shoot dear Oh, he was a hunter he's shoot dear, you know, he's in the NRA he did a few things like that not a big right wing guy But in the like to shoot guns.
Ah, was he Jewish guy? No no Catholic guy. So you're mom Jewish. Yeah, my mom's Jewish mom My dad was a Catholic and so we say let's go shoot dear I didn't want to do that then he'd shoot a deer and he'd strap it on the front of the car like just Like Minnesota like Fargo or something you drive up north and do it I like what is it Angus National Park something like that must have been sort of devastating it was and then we'd have to eat it And I remember the first taste of this smoked venison.
Yeah, grossed me out through up really and if I can't even look at venison to this day I'm not dears I can look at a living deer, but As soon as they're dead I can't look So I did live in this tiny little quirky world and I didn't I never went to Beverly Hills ever I didn't know westwood really afraid were you? I wasn't afraid it's just how we grew up. All right, and a little and a cul-de-sac and we Had a car at some point I eventually had a car, but I you know broke a few rules with cars I was a mischievous kid not afraid of things no, but it's never went to my leg. It's never drove.
Yeah, so if you saw menace to society Yeah, they didn't leave okay, all right, so central I didn't leave The situation during the territorial gang situation So but I vowed to myself to enlarge in my world once So that's what why I created this discipline of meeting a new person every two weeks and I would fly I'd go there You started this in high school lower no I started it just out of college now Let's go through this because you're really the first major producer I think probably the first producer I've talked to really and to talk to somebody at your level Which is a very high level I have no idea I have a vague idea of what what you guys do you know and there is sort of a romantic idea of what the Hollywood producer is I mean you guys are the top of the food chain so I would like to know how you come to show business What did you set out to do you know at like in college when you went to college? My a generalized goal of just getting out of college graduating and be respected I just want to be respected or something I want to be special my grandmother Sonya Schwartz who I dedicate the book to said always used to say to me You're special think big be big, you know your curiosity is gonna take you all the way use that it's a superpower She really said that she really said stuff like that she was Jewish a very Jewish I had one and but she while she was telling me like literally every week that I'm gonna be special I'm gonna be outstanding human being she was looking at a straight F report card So there was literally no empirical evidence that I was gonna be special the way she thought I was gonna be You had motivational problems or they know I had dyslexia, but they didn't classify it Oh, you did really? Yeah, and but I've struggled with reading but I can definitely read and Get through college with actually good grades, but I wrote a book and I wrote a book with Charles Fishman Who I love and is your biggest fan by the way, no kidding. Yeah, and I took a little longer Charles and I he loves you Oh my he's listening to this is he yeah, he's not a needy guy at all honestly and he but he said on this particular interview He didn't even say say my name, but I'm doing it well I'm glad I have a fan Charles Fishman Yeah, now I have to go look at his stuff Yeah, outside of this book he wrote with you well Yeah, and I actually picked Charles Fishman because he had no knowledge of this world this culture at all Oh, Hollywood Hollywood no knowledge and I thought because I wanted a business I wanted somebody that came into this world I was able to introduce into this world from like a beginner's mind where he was like an Like an archaeologist going in for a dig not cynical or jaded you can hide the stuff from him Brian You can paint a good picture of our business.
Yeah, exactly exactly But all right, so you want to be special you want to be relevant you want to be respected me I know clearly what it is you want to do no I don't know I've no I think I'm gonna go to law school because my father I don't think that you know what it was. I'll be a doctor get my dad's a doctor whatever it is So I went to USC and I got accepted into USC law school But in that summer the preceded law school I overheard these two guys outside my little apartment complex talk about the easiest cushiest job imaginable And I just close the drapes and open the window so I could really listen in like I put my head against the screen I love doing that. Yeah, yeah, yeah exactly what's going on? Yeah, what's going on?
So I overhear this guy saying the easiest job 40 hour a week pays one hour a day work, you know You don't have to do anything a free corporate cards Warner Brothers pictures I knew nothing about Warner Brothers So I just dial information Warner Brothers And the man that was head of the legal department was named Peter Connect So I heard that so I can I please have a legal department Peter Connect got him on the phone I said I'm a young guy going to USC love to be a law clerk He says come in and that day I got the job because the guy just quit the day before you just lucked out I just totally love that I really did that I really don't swear to yes And so you go into Warner Brothers, which is probably one of the biggest studio at the time I would imagine that in a universal yeah the two yeah, and you have no idea what your business is really no You're a movie fan not really I mean no I Went to the lot of the James Bond movies, but no I wasn't a movie fan Because you're too busy not leaving the cul-de-sac. There's no way to get out to the movies. Yeah exactly as hard All right, so you're there you're doing the legal cork work and what is that job essentially that job is a tiny little office with no windows A third of the size of your of this garage right now and what you doing there basically you sit there until somebody says you have to deliver These papers to somebody so one of the first people I was to deliver Warner Brothers documents to was to warn Beatty at the Beverly Wilshire Hotel where he lived you have to do it And the guys never been in the LA yeah, it's not never really been across the hill So now I'm in this Pontiac. I'm in a Pontiac car red Pontiac that they gave me they gave you car They gave you a car they let me use a car you get a car and mileage and the 40 and what years in 1972?
So it's a big car it was a big car. It was a big car It was a big car you're in your big red Pontiac driving over to see Warren Beatty exactly and what did you see Warren Beatty so bass Yes, I did because he's living at the hotel. He's living at the hotel. Yeah, Beverly Wilshire And so what happened is assistant came down said I'll take these papers from Mr Beatty and I said I have to hand it I just had I have to hand it to him directly They said oh no, that's not possible I said they're only binding if they're directly handed by me to Mr Beatty so somehow I pushed that through and all of a sudden I was in Warren Beatty's hotel suite where he lived and I'm having a Conversation with Warren Beatty what'd you talk about talk about a lot of things?
Well movies I was because I knew he was one of the biggest movie stars in the world sure I was aware of that I mean just because I didn't I mean I mean we say I wasn't a cinephile like some kids are you knew you knew how he would find sure? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, and how did he strike you at that time really nice? He elected to not be in to not to be intimidating Mm-hmm and rather he was not he's warm and he and somehow is able to engage and he just locks in and he way this tremendous conversation Do you remember about what I don't really remember about what I honestly I was probably like well, what do you do? What do you want to do?
Do you probably ask me that well? Yeah? Yeah? He'd ask questions like that What do you want to do?
What are you doing here? What was it like living in the Valley? Are you still going to USC and stuff like that? Yeah?
He's a very inquisitive guy. He's remained a friend of mine Oh, really? Yes, and in 1972 he's the biggest he's ever been right about man. Yeah, he's a huge movie star He was a huge movie star.
So all right. So here you are now. I've done that so now I've had this conversation We're invading well, thank you very much. I'll see you later Yeah, because he's you know, he's kind of ultimately becomes business like sure I mean they got to know what they're doing after certain point Yeah, he's a smart guy So he I'm done with that and then I feel like the next one was William Peter Blattie who wrote the book the novel the exercise The exercise and I tried the same thing and I had to drive out to Malibu So you're seeing this as part of your experiment This is part of my experiment How can I mean you know a delivery into a full meeting with somebody that is getting something done in Hollywood because he wanted to figure out What the hell you wanted to do?
I was trying to figure out here's what I knew that I could never get through law school Yeah, I knew I just felt there's literally no chance I'm gonna get to the first year of law school Right, there's literally no chance if that were to happen by some fluke that I'll ever pass the bar It wasn't a great tester. Yeah, that is just not gonna be any were you not interested in the law per se? Yeah, only to you didn't know what I'm telling you know, I didn't know what you're trying to play K You're dead. Yeah, some version of that right yeah, I was yeah, and my grandma Yeah, I really just wanted to make my grandmother proud Yeah, so I was driven by wanting this bond that I had with my grandmother and trying to be special and they were at that time that generation Respected the idea of a lawyer or doctor meant something that's right.
Well, that's what I was more of television kid Yeah, and that's what was on television doctor lawyers right cops, and you know if you could be you know So those were goals for people those were role models and for myself as well even though I didn't really complete details right right anyway So I just thought it wasn't possible so I'm scrambling like crazy to invent something for myself to do in my career and I going out to see William Blattie What are you bringing to him? Well, I was bringing him documents because they were the company that also made the extra such a great time in movie making It was it was very romantic it got you know Like I did go to people's houses which I can't stars were like very kinky stuff was going on It was a very you know, you can't just drop that bomb and not give us some details can you? I don't know if I don't think I can Let's not mention names. What did you walk in on in a situation that you were like?
I'm a little too young or I mean never want to see this I did go to a stars house action star There was a pretty grand level orgy going on really in the daytime literally in the daytime out in Calabasas Yeah, as much as I can tell you there's like a hundred people a hundred people you're like 20 years old It's like 20 there was some legal documents. Yeah, it was pretty weird I think it was my my boss had a boss. Yeah that asked if I would do this thing Because he knew I was like a frisky kid trying to learn a lot and he's gonna walk into I was co-opting everybody and Warner Brothers to learn Something and he felt like he'd co-op me some I'm telling you that I'm gonna tell you the truth I've never done this on television I mean on radio ever he did ask if I could stop at the corner of Topanga up Topanga Boulevard Yeah, and the one on one on one on one I stopped the corner and picked up a girl I was Kim and I took her to this place and I talked to her she didn't wasn't interested me Just a goofy clerk and you're driving her to the right to this place which I didn't know what was going on Papers plus the girl yeah, I get there it was a very you know like easy rider kind of people stars I can't even and she soon enough was like had her clothes off and having sex with somebody and I just stood up like I was I was in shock. I didn't know what was going on kid I did have so yes someone the girlfriend of one of the stars had come on kid But the papers and I was like I didn't know what to do I was literally So when you got back to wonders that your boss got the guy who sent you go How you doing?
You know what you were walking into I have a feeling that guy later showed up there I think it was all like I was just an innocent kid welcome to Hollywood. Yeah. Yeah, welcome to Hollywood So okay, so I don't know how long the show is but there's I can keep there's a lot to say about all that I was a very very naive kid Right. I mean I was ambitious and really hope to make something of myself and accomplish this dream that I had with my grandmother So in this pursuit during that period I extended my trip.
I said to my boss I think I'm gonna push a lot of the law school back one year So I was able to I was able to stay doing this job the Brian grazer job for the extra for entire year Delivering stuff and I started to take on this extra thing of saying hi. I'm Brian grazer And I would introduce myself to in fact Lou Wasserman and Lou Wasserman MC a MCA was chairman of MCA the biggest movie company and entertainment He was the guy he was the most powerful guy in show business and he basically said Kid I love the questions, but you have no value to me I don't know what you're trying to do and he said whole he said I got he said hold this and he handed me a number two pencil Yeah, and a legal tablet and said put the pencil to the paper and it's worth more than it did as separate parts It has greater value than it did as separate. Huh, you know get out of here And it was just the greatest advice. It was a little scary But it was like start manufacturing ideas start writing ideas.
Yeah, cuz you don't have a lot of money You can't buy scripts. You can't do things like that. It's clear. You're not gonna finish go to law school He could see right through me.
Right so he made a comment. I'm very very intimidating, but not he didn't wasn't trying to hurt me He didn't didn't try to degrade me. He was intimidating in his presence Well, I think and also that generation I imagine you as well in your your mind is that if someone's doing even a small job and show Business, there's an element where it's sort of like well. What do you've gotten for?
What do you want to do? Why you witness? Yes, exactly and he saw that and he really know and I didn't really know I would say You know, I would have he didn't ask. I mean in other words I didn't get to say producer right but that's sort of the catch-all job Is it you know that at that time that you were like I just want to be in it because what happened is I got a lot in in this year And I have journey of staying there as a law clerk Yeah, but at the same time trying to meet all of the great master filmmakers which they everyone said yes Copola copola every purse everyone said yes The only one that I couldn't said said yes, but I never met was Robert Evans But just because I don't think he made it to his office.
Do you know now? I know now yeah, I know now I know you know like now, you know all these guys but when you say them wouldn't say yes or no These were were they still business meetings were you reaching out just to go talk to them? I was just going to talk to them, but I I just said I'm Brian grazer. I work at Warner Brothers Pictures in business affairs.
This is not associated with studio business. I do not want a job I just would like I know then I would say something I know about them Can I have five minutes, please? What'd you get out of these things? Oh first of all five minutes always became an hour, right?
I I was able to demystify how this vague operational business worked of show business because literally show business is Like flying a sessna into a storm. Yeah, you just it's hard to understand it or see it Yeah, like you and mostly what defines are different differentiates business is language Yeah And so the language in which movies and television are made and those Mechanics of those transactions creative or business is a language that's different than any other business And it's very very hard to learn because you cannot go to business school There's no school that really teaches it so where was the first breakthrough you had and with who were you're like? Oh, that's how you make a movie I think it was Lew Wasserman because it forced me to manufacture ideas and I always had a pretty tremendous ideas for movies ideas for movies and television shows Okay, and since I wasn't in the writer's guild what I would do is I'd write an idea Like a man falling over the mermaid and I would write that as a letter to myself registered male letter to myself That old trick right that old trick. Yeah, so if someone stole it I could go to court and say you know feel protected But you could have registered with the guilty just didn't know I just didn't know and I don't know if I could have because I wasn't in The guild I don't think you have to be in the guild register and I know what the guilt maybe you're I'm counting and you're You're probably more I'm sure you're more right than the ask a writer.
Yeah, yeah Yeah, so so I did I started writing movies for television ideas basically what I would do is I'm a title junkie Um, and so I believe titles are really important So I'd come up with a word or or I would enjoin one word with another and become a title and then I'd build a story underneath the title Okay, so I'd retrofit just do it that way and then I was able to I got fired from Warner Brothers Yeah, but I had this like a bin of hundreds of little envelopes And I sold I would pitch them and I sold two of them as TV pilots to NBC It was the executive very good question. Her name was Dian Barkley. Uh-huh. She was head of all West Coast programming And she's awesome.
I don't know if she's still live or not She was awesome very creative very pioneer One pagers these are one pagers and I pitched her what happened is I pitched her these two ideas I got in there and she was from New Orleans And she had this very New Orleans style office with a bird cage with a bird in it as I was pitching We heard a thud the bird died in the room. Oh my and she goes Oh my god, and she started laughing instead of she made her laugh first of all she smoked a lot of pot Yeah, which but she was very effective, but she's not allowed a pot. Yeah, and it made her laugh and she said we're bonded for life Yeah, and so you're in her she said you and I are now bonded for life And she bought the two projects which enabled me to barter them back oddly enough to Warner Brothers Warner Brothers television just happened to be Warner Brothers, so they only idea but they didn't have a studio so you could yeah, right? Very good.
Yes, okay, NBC bought the idea But of course that would be very valuable to the studio Mm-hmm one of her close friends was chairman of Warner Brothers television who I'd never met named Alan Shane and all of a sudden I was able to turn my little five thousand dollar commitment into something much more and so at 23 four years old I was then You were making you were making deals and at 25. I produced my first movie for television which was it was called Zuma Beach with Susan Summers Roseanne Arquette Michael Bean I must have been 10 Timothy Hutton Roseanne Arquette was just turning 18, okay, and Roseanne Arquette still and I know each other we tease each other because I made out with her all the time Oh, yeah, good for you at a trailer. Yeah, I never had a juicer. I had a lot of your inside three years You're already a pro you're in trouble.
You're going back to the house in Calabas Because I know you're probably still going three years later. Well, it certainly wasn't my mind I'm probably your favorite. That's very funny. I'm in.
I'm a guy But let me ask you quickly yes, so this is your first sort of experience of making a deal So you sell the ideas to NBC you go to Warner Brothers and you you you you you get them involved as a studio So now you've already seen how that the nuts and bolts of those two things work So then you get this movie you're producing a movie of the week for TV was this your idea also? So it would be so NBC so now you're at the helm of producer this first time. What do you know your responsibilities are? I mean, what are your responsibilities?
Well ultimately what you learn is I can synthesize it What you learn is the best way to be a producer is to either have the idea or incubate or the idea which means align yourself with the writer Whoever yes, so build it into a script whether you write it or you Help do it with somebody else and then that therefore what you are is the umbrella of all the idea is the umbrella of all Employment so they're paperwork involved in all of this yes, okay, and you have to be the one that's fiscally and creatively responsible Right like I I'm gonna give you this amount of money you and I are gonna develop this idea the script You'll get the guild minimum or whatever and then you will see how that goes We can see if we get an actor attached or director attached or it's studio attached. Yes So that's how it plays out certainly you're the ring master in a way. Yeah, you're the ring Exactly. You're the ring master the contractor, but you know you're the one that you're the architect and the contractor So you're the guy if the money falls out you're like I know another guy we can get money maybe this studio wants to kick in a little bit We can we can produce it with these two people.
Yes, exactly. Uh-huh. Well, we'll together some financing But right and ultimately what you're doing when you're approaching I mean writers or writers actors or actors directors are directors of directors these are guys that want to gig and depending on the reputation They'll get paid appropriately or ask for more money You say no, but really the way to get the money is you got to go to guys saying that I'm gonna make you money on your money Yeah, that's the way she gets done. Yeah, yeah, you have to say yeah I mean look basically always having a sexy hook is a good starting point and a sexy hook is begins with a good title And then a singular sentence that defines what you're trying to achieve and then an emotional destination So the sales pitch well, no, that's really what you want to do.
I mean, I mean I get a dummy money to yeah, so you basically you have to tell a story uh-huh and like I had a story for splash Yeah, it was basically a guy it was basically I was in Los Angeles Just after I produced my first movie for television do a beach and then I produced the 20-hour miniseries on the 10 commandments I became a 25-year-old like super star your way So every girl that you would never talk to me in college was wanting to have sex with me Oh, and so that was a busy year that was a busy well happen on zoom a beach because what I have the most sought-after girl at USC By crazy coincidence was sitting at this campfire scene that was where we were shooting zoom a beach And she wasn't hired she was just talking to you know from school I knew her from school, but I didn't invite her that she was just there And I was sitting in my little director's chair with like my short t-shirt on looking thinking I'm really a tough cool guy But I didn't know how to even use power I had a lot of power But I didn't know how to use it but literally the two girls that were stars of the movie like Suzanne Summers and was in her get waved to me. I waved I see her name is Margie this 10 5 foot 10 Shixagatas, yeah I mean she I wave to Margie like very excited and she shushes me like puts her finger over her her mouth like quiet down Yeah, and then they whisper to her so clearly that guy is the producer she gets up and she comes over to me She was Brian. I know you're the producer She comes more enthusiastic than I've ever seen Margie in her life And she says want to go out tonight And I think should I have some integrity because she shushed me or should I go out and really have a good time? Of course I took the latter sure I went in a good time Yeah, and so did Margie I hope yeah, so but I did kind of learn quickly that that is a type of girl in Los Angeles And I don't really want that's not a future for me.
So I thought what is my perfect girl? It's not Margie, but you knew that at that moment it took a couple years a couple years a margin is a metaphor That's why you're the number one podcast Margies you're like I'm ready to get married to a woman that Exactly exactly Later yeah, it's like forensic file. I'm curious. I'm just using your system Brian.
Yeah doing it well So yeah a few years of Margies and I thought this is that this is tiring is a meditive How do I find the perfect girl? What is the perfect girl? I start defining the perfect girl and what was that definition? Well, that was a beautiful simple honest not calculated you ask a question you get a real answer authentic You know using you necessary.
Yeah, no, certainly not least initially Yeah, so anyway, I wrote all that down it became splash But I superimposed I want to heighten it so I super imposed this mythological symbol So that was what I get we again That's what I'm eating the perfect woman. Yeah, it was about meeting the perfect woman and it's a mermaid and it was It's impossible. Well, I wanted to make it somewhat unattainable because I gave it more conflict the more conflict the movie has the better It usually is and but you done night shift, but splash was your idea. Oh, well, yeah Yeah, I had written splash before night shift.
Okay, so I started splash not long after Margie quite on What was your relationship with Bruce Jay Frieden? He wrote the script he wrote the script I wrote two drafts of the script that were terrible, but Lou Wasserman says it doesn't have to be good. It just has to exist So I'm telling you spend a little while some more than one meeting. I'm getting no no one minute Like a minute doesn't have to be good.
It just has to exist. Right. He just has like write it kid You know that was you know, that's what you extrapolate it from it's very good Huh, it's just as it's it I have to be able to say it I have to bring I have to be able to say it so that it has a currency Uh-huh and then if it can exist in the form of a script, but then that's gonna be more valuable to me because it will exist So the fact that that exists well, I can say okay, you love this is what I did with this You love this the idea the script exists You don't have to read it, but I want to charge you you know hundred thousand dollars Right not five thousand right because I did write a script right so that's what happened then I got Bruce Jay Frieden He turned it into a much better script. It's sort of light-hearted for him.
I mean, he's a pretty dark dude Yeah, he's right. I thought he wrote the story the heartbreak kid. Oh, okay. I'm not probably right.
Yeah. Yeah Yeah, so I mean he had it in him So he did a draft and then it was still not a very good script and nobody wanted to do a mermaid movie Yeah, so I was able to I got I got the movie night shift made before splash even though splash existed before night shift Okay, so you did night shift and that was your that was your first movie with Ron Howard with my first movie with Ron Howard who becomes your partner in production Yes, I'm Michael Keaton lesson who I still love and love hanging out with I saw him at Toscana bar He was in here one of the greatest interviews ever did like that with Michael because it was so spontaneous and bizarre It's funny as good. He's great and when at that time you probably did you see him at cast him as when he was doing stand up Yes, right. Yeah, he just came in and did look we tried to get a lot of stars in night shift prior to that In fact, we had John Belushi, but then we got cock blocked by an agent Oh, really?
Yeah, so because we were too little we're just little punks Ron was just an actor on happy days and I was just a guy like sort of I did these movies for television But now I'm trying to enter the feature world so in any event Michael Keaton just came in and he did exactly that scene of shooting the basket Scenes in the crowd goes wild. He did exactly that way. We go. This is this guy's amazing We have to hire him.
He's got a true unique energy. He does and there and he's just on fire that guy Yeah, he's just on fire and because we hired Henry Winkler. We had the luxury of higher here, too By the way, wow, he's great sweetheart, but we had him and that would enable the fact that we had Henry was enough leverage to hire an Because with Henry they could already get their money back. Right exactly.
That's a real thing that thing That's the big difference in in getting a movie made not getting a movie made as a profile of your talent Yeah, you have to have enough elements either star directors star actors you have to have star elements now Like you seem like a very energetic almost Excitable you seem very open but in order to be in the business as long as you have and to have the types of hits that you've had You know, you know, the night shift splashed parenthood I mean you've done a lot of movies that were a little off the beaten track You know crybaby you produce as well for John Waters the doors you did back draft I mean it keeps going you know with beautiful mind. I mean, you know power 13, which I love that movie Thank you. Yeah, did you do what was the one with the old people in the eggs in the pool? Well, I didn't do that.
That was Ron. He did cocoon. Oh, you didn't do cocoon. Well, what happened is Ron and I did two movies with Ron Night shift and splash.
He said let's be partners. I felt he was too famous for me I mean because his kindness. He was say Brian blah blah blah take you know you get credit You take it was all the credit went to Ron Howard because he was one of those famous American icons So I just thought I'm gonna work my ass off and still be an unknown forever Yeah, and that wasn't what grandma Sonia said to be You need to be special I got to be special so I said Ron. I love you again do so he did cocoon Yeah, and I produced a hit comedy called spies like us.
Yeah. Yeah. Oh, who's in that movie? And I did real genius at the same time.
Oh genius kids that go to Caltech with yeah. Yeah. Wow. That's right I mean, you've Jason Dan accurate.
Oh my guess guys. I guess that's right and John Landis directed So I did those two movies run to that one I felt like I'm now a guy that feels has enough confidence to partner with Ron and not feel like I'm gonna be overshadowed So we then partner I just can't believe the number of my fucking movies you did Ryan I mean like it like a nutty professor ransom was that the male get yeah, yeah, yeah, liar liar That was Jim Carrey. Yes, and you did the remake of psycho the fans every man. Yeah, I did really yes Oh my god, I just believe in him and I want to try it and John waters you take chances I definitely do yes, and you did see before with young Chris rock his first movie I paid for it in fact But like it just like I don't okay because here's me me compared to you and even in relation to this book I may have a curious mind.
I mean, you know that by the way, I'm talking to you I like learning about this stuff, but I'm an extremely anxiety-ridden type I get overwhelmed very easily I don't really know how to deliberate power. You know when I do collaborate It's not necessarily reluctantly. I'm happy to do it once a minute But I don't know how to unify things in other words like I have to be me in every situation in order to like I actively have to be present to make Money, yes, I understand yes, but you are able and people like another friend of mine You know I jot Apple tower the other people yeah who have this sensibility and this comfort in this ease around Deliberating power and and not losing your mind when things aren't going your way But have a way to keep cutting through to get what you want or to least negotiate something that you can accept correct Yes, and that's a that's sort of a weird gift. It's not it's not a businessman thing necessary Yeah, because you're very creative guy obviously well.
Yeah, I mean a lot of thank you I mean it kind of goes like this the heartbeat of what I think I think I have a sense of what the heartbeat of what I do first Of all I would characterize that I'm in the feelings business that movies and television anything that's cinematic It's cinematic the the destination of that is to ignite emotion when it fails to ignite emotion Then it's failing to communicate in that particular art form So and I feel like I'm a very empathetic and sensitive person and I'm constantly importing new people new experts new ideas into my brain And so as a consequence, I'm learning a lot so that I can be disruptive I'm learning a lot by meeting people in this curiosity journey so that I don't replicate what other people are doing So I have a chance of having an original idea I'm learning a lot so that it creates a curation system that might be better than other people really just simply informed instinct I'm meeting Edward Taylor. I'm meeting Carl Sagan. I'm meeting all those people and I'm learning about their subject I'm learning about them and I'm able to marry that with my own curiosity and then I get a spark So that curiosity gives life to an inspiration and then I can hire people and I just build it like a house I build all these movies Empire whatever the thing is I build these houses and I don't do them alone No, I'm very good at working with other people and remembering what we were with the outcome. We were trying to and also maintaining relationships Yeah, yes, yeah, I like you.
Well, you know what the variety of the types of movies and television shows you do implies to me that You know generally speaking maybe there's maybe one person out there in the world one if I mentioned your name He would go fuck that guy, but I would imagine most people right. I love that guy. Yeah. Thank you.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah What you think is more than one?
I think it was more than one Well, I try to you know, I make a point I don't think there's I've never heard of anyone saying Brian I the brag raiser screwed me right. I think I have strong character Mm-hmm, and a lot of that character has been influenced by my partnership with Ron Howard because he is extraordinary character Yeah, yeah, you pick the right guy pick the right guy no one's gonna in tune Ron Harrow is character No, no one's gonna no one's gonna shit talk. Opie. Exactly.
No, they're not we're very very different guys We have similar taste we have a similar work ethic so like he doesn't think Eight hour day is like a long hard grueling day and I don't think six hours is another is we both think we both have the same work ethic And we have similar tastes qualitative taste and what what are the emotional dynamics? Like you know what is a common like if you're discussing a property a script where you know You and Ron are trying to decide whether you're gonna make the movie and who's gonna be in it or who's gonna direct it You know what what are the some of the things that you bring to an idea that are different from each other? How does a symbiotic relationship work Ron is more of a cinephile and it was and is and I'm not I understand the emotionality of movies or or television sometimes Yes, I'll tell you so he does have to sell me on something but I have to sell him too So basically simplified is that he has really good Film wisdom and I have an incredible amount of curiosity So I'm off the blocks very fast But then I need to hand the baton to somebody that has more stamina and also more kind of cinema has more of the classic Understanding of cinematic roots. Mm-hmm.
So you've got to find the director Yeah, so basically simply like I might say to Ron hey I'll have an idea that is definitely that could that is very likely to be an original pop culture idea that is he'll go really Is that what's going on in pop culture day or like with you? I said yeah, I gotta get these yeezys and you said what are yeezys? Well, I know what all that shit is you know like why you're a little older than me Why because because I have kids and I like to also in these curiosity conversations I'm with young kids all the time with young people other than my own kids because I'm going to young demographics I'm going to skateboard shops sure I'm standing in line for a drop at Supreme even though I know the owner So I like to Bombard myself with pop culture things or just or subculture things. He doesn't run or doesn't do that.
It's interesting So he might go Brian is this corny and I'll go yeah That's corny right, but then I'll say to run do you think this holds up and he'll go no I don't think it's a movie as a movie well But it's interesting because you make a lot of grown up movies and not a lot of people make grown up movies I mean, you know frosting Nixon is not a kid's movie American gangster not really a kid's movie the Da Vinci code That was a huge movie everyone seemed to like that, but it's still not kids I mean you're one of the rare guys Cinderella man, you know eight mile that was a crossover a beautiful mind not a kid's movie But a beautiful movie that in an era where people are afraid to make adult movies you seem to do it Yeah, I do do it and but you know you make a few kids movies here and there and I imagine you take some shots It don't really go over that well I mean I can see that the way like with a nutty professor that was huge across the board That was huge across the board and liar liar all my comedies when I don't say my all the Jesus to say my sure all the comedies I did for 15 years they connected to kids. Yeah, so I did six movies with Eddie Murphy They did the nutty professors as you said liar liar with Jim a Grinch with Jim So I miss I miss though for sure, but how sitter work parenthood worked. What do you biggest missus? I talked I talked to a fabric and troubles about how was it?
Well, I just my cabways and aliens I just wasn't the right person to be involved in anyway Because I don't like cowboys or aliens and I even said that's everybody I go you guys got to be kidding We can't call this cowboys and aliens. They go. Yeah, we love it and I when the we I'm talking about there's a very powerful people There's a lot of people there. Yeah, um, but I you know so they came to you with that No, it was Ron's thing that I participated in a Ron and the weird thing is it's not a bad movie It's interesting.
Yeah, it is it just it was it just didn't find its place Yeah, and I'm just like not the right guy I mean look but I don't see a lot of the Marvel movies although and then they're giant Yeah, but it's beautiful that you make like no Frost Nixon's an amazing movie So how does something like that happen? I like to do if I can do it I like to try to do something that is different than other people so it has a disruptive quality or in the case of television like Empire 24 The Empire you did the first couple is that you know I did the whole show Lee Daniels Danny Strong and I'm and I are executive producers and Eileen shaken. She's like the showrunner. Uh-huh.
So I'm still involved of course We're all still involved and there's no tension Well, anyways, I try to do things I try to do things that have a chance of trend creation. Yeah, so I like to you're wearing swing Yeah, when I did cry, baby, I thought this is gonna be Greece or it's gonna be a flop. It was a flop But it's you know, it was a it was interesting You know those John Waters movies where he's got some money are very interesting to watch Yeah, and I like the movie and I think it's probably has an audience Maybe it didn't make the bread you might thought but you know I think it's kind of interesting that you know, you're you're slightly perverse enough to think that might take off like Greece But yeah good for you. I thought I just we had Johnny Depp sexy guy Yeah, I don't know I talked myself into it Yeah, but anyway, I do like to make adult movies as you said and You know, there's sometimes there's little subculture movies like eight mile was a subculture moving cross-door move crush Was a girl empowerment movie that crossed over about surf girls?
Yeah, I just did one called low riders That for universal and the culture of low-right the culture of low-right off our or new brand new But I mean like the current color as when I was in high school I went to Chasworth High School and there were a bunch of low-riders and it's a world Mm-hmm, so the low-rider Hispanic culture exists Throughout all of America. I grew up in New Mexico. That's me. Oh, there's hundreds of these amazing cultures Yeah, and they're kind of like if you think of Saturday night fever using that little Italian house and all that sure so it's like using a closed world Like Travolta and Saturday night to do Romeo and Julia a version of that yeah, yeah It celebrates it actually celebrates the Hispanic culture.
Yeah, which is because I've kind of pledged to myself after doing eight mile that That the Hispanic culture is a culture that is kind of denied and I want to try to do some about it So let's go through some things. Okay. Yes, like I don't know why I'm hung up on a Paul 13 But like I watch that movie every time it's on now like something like that Like how does that because Tom Hanks was heavily involved in that right? Yes, and who wrote that script Bill broils?
Mm-hmm, and how does it like what's what they come about? How's a project like that come about it comes about like this? I'll tell you it was the intersection of Hollywood and a 12-page treatment and me and my curiosity conversations So what happened is I met a woman 15 years before Apollo 13 named Veronica de Negre that was tortured in Chile But survived under the Pinochet regime and she survived very, you know With so much hope and power and still lives in Washington DC now So I became obsessed with her I became obsessed with how torture works as an operational thing and more importantly I became obsessed with how people survive situations like that and just human the human resources that we can rally To survive things that we could they're unimaginable So now it's 15 17 years later There's a 12-page treatment written by Jim level on Apollo 13 and I know nothing about the guy who's on the that's not right So he writes a 12-page treat the the astronaut Jim level writes a 12-page treatment on Apollo 13 And that involves like aviation and aerodynamics and all that which I know nothing about but the one thing I knew a lot about because of What it because my earlier conversations about survival I knew a lot about survival and what people can do far beyond what they could imagine and I thought this is what this is about to me so I Chased after it and I got Ron excited and we bit against other studios and like literally my only bridge or axis point was the survival dimension Which I thought was so humanistic and important putting a square peg in around whole and so that's what got literally in the process of trying to save the ship You know the two amazing scenes were the engineers right? Mission control yeah, I'm trying to figure out how to keep them alive how to keep them alive to reconfigure thing Yes How they can have oxygen how they can electricity all those things and that they were all these sort of like they had the determination and the focus of test pilots Yes, or at least pilots, you know, of a craze Yes, so that's how it came about that was what it's about and then I was able to champion champion this little 12 pages into Something that we could own and then partnered with Tom Hanks and the three of us and look Tom is a superstar in every way He knew a lot about aerodynamics and Ron learned it We created an astronaut training school on the lot which real astronauts came so we could learn it all and then of course We co-opted NASA so that we could shoot real zero gravity because no movie had ever shot and shot zero gravity It's always been wires and then digitally removing them So we thought this was the perfect blend of science and cinema so you reached out to NASA and said look You know we're gonna tell the story we're gonna tell it real We need you we need you and they said no originally and the only ones that said yes was the Russians who said you can use our Rock our jet yeah, but that's it seemed like that gone down.
So did you have to go back to NASA and go back? Yeah, no Russians are in I don't know if we use that as an initiating tool, but we probably did but we ended up sort of softening them and then they became great allies of ours Yeah, yeah, rest is you don't want that to happen you guys again still a space race Yeah, exactly. Oh, that's hilarious. So that's how that's how that happened again.
It was the human component There's the human component me Ron Howard was did a quite extraordinary job because We everybody in the world knew these guys survived So how is he gonna create tension in a story where the entire planet knew those three astronauts went into space and they didn't die They're alive But he found a way to create tension by creating the architecture of the movie was these three world One was the world of being an outer space in the capsule The other world was mission control with you just reference and the other world was the personal world of the family the kids cutting back and forth Cutting back and forth to those three worlds in an integrated fashion plus all the launch stuff that was really beautiful and cinematic Became what the movie was and created all the tension that any movie ever needed and they acted the hell out of that movie Those guys were great and by the way, you can you imagine how boring it was to do that? I just sitting in a little capsule in there by the way in order to hours and in order to shoot that zero The stuff floating around zero gravity. There was a jet called the Casey 135 jet would only do like a hundred parabolas If you got sick on the second one you got 97 more to go. Yeah, so that was it So basically each parabolas would be 27 seconds of weightlessness Which and you have to lose the beginning of the end so you could only capture about 16 seconds the meat of it So it's kind of like shooting underwater like Ron and I did in splash You know when people are swimming from tank to tank right because you have to get away from the tank to really feel like you see Dural Hannah just the ocean yeah the case of Tom Hanks floating around you can't you have to snip the first five six seven seconds going up Yeah, and then and then you capture the middle and so it's a very time time-consuming Hard to us to work hard those guys they worked hard they worked hard for that money and that was a great success Was that you're like was that one of your biggest yeah?
I was I mean we all thought Tom Hanks Ron and I thought well God we're doing it We think we're doing something good. Maybe I'll make $40 million worldwide So we're not embarrassed and it made like $400 million worldwide So and then I got nine Oscar nominations how many Oscars if you won I've won one personal one for a beautiful mind But I've been personally nominated I've been what I've been nominated personally five times once as a writer for other movies and then 43 times and Emmys I think 160 times. I love the gangster movie American. Oh me too.
That was one of my favorite movies ever It's a great movie and that got turned down so many times and actually it was shut down that they fired the studio Fire the director two months before six weeks before we start shooting yeah, and they said don't ever say either American or gangster because there was a big Loss, but then I I couldn't live with that because I love this movie so much because it's about respect It's a gangster movie which I love but it's about respect yeah And movie all of my most successful movies or television or all the access around Self-worth and of course respect and survival and survival. Yeah, right emotional survival. Yeah. Yeah, I make things Yeah, it's a emotional or real survival.
Yeah. Yeah, I see the key to it like when you describe because I imagine with the beautiful mind You did the same thing as you apply certain sensitivity hundred percent. Yeah a gifted guy But also a flawed guy. I think history showed you know in some ways, but yeah, that wasn't the story you were telling But but you know, but it was the emotional perseverance of a you know a very awkward brilliant person exactly and was stricken with schizophrenia So he's trying to survive schizophrenia at the same time.
He's winning a Nobel Prize. That's pretty profound But literally, you know, he was he was ready to stab people I mean he was right, you know when you go after mad mids for a second Yes a problem. How do you deal with someone like when you work with directors notoriously producers and directors? I can get dicey Yes, definitely With budgets yes, and tell me a story of an almost irreconcilable situation where you were like this guy's killing me Oh, wow well the way I deal with people I mean I have what looks like looks to be like ADD or a very I don't know why I said that the point is is you have to be extremely patient and words have meaning so you try not to say You try not to ever lose control.
Yeah, you try not to ever be impetuous So you have to work away you have to be vigilant around your personality. So the negotiation is all in the conversation and it's about Depriving is giving love and depriving love and doing it gently and that's how you work with actors stars And that's how you work with star directors. What do you mean depriving? Well, for example, there's a director that says I can you know, we're now in it and I'm doing it But it's now 125 million and I said but our deal was a hundred million and we told them a hundred they go crazy and they're screaming there You have to just you I would just basically I would not talk to them for it a day.
I wouldn't yell I would just I described like a child. Yeah, this how you do it. You can't you what you think exactly? You know, it's you just you don't ever want to throw the final card or yeah, you know If you're gonna do it, you're gonna fire someone which I've done I've fired somebody once but that cost a lot of money Yeah, that was a what if cost more money had I not fired who was that I don't want to say okay?
I did one movie I was thinking about this other day there was a movie that I produced I co-wrote it Harold Ramis and I wrote it It was a flop. I was with John Candy and Meg Ryan and the director who was the wrong director I said, you know, you can't have the actor you can't have the protagonist say to the girl you're a bitch We're gonna hate him for that. He says what are you saying to me? I said I think we shouldn't say that I think they should say different things and John Candy shaking I said yes, Brian.
You're right the guy goes, you know what you directed and I had to direct a day he left Tell what you did you directed the day I had to do the day and I hope that he would come back because I thought I don't want to direct this movie I don't want to direct it and go to the editing room now for 20 weeks or something. That's not my personality That's not your job. I'm a skillset, but he did you have but he did I would have finished it Yeah, what if I yeah, I would have yeah, I would have said I'm not coming back that because when you have smart actors Yeah, they help you a lot Yeah, and Meg Ryan and John Candy were very very smart actors and have you directed movies? No, no I don't want to know desire because you can kind of do I can get as much Create I can do as much creatively as I'd like to do by exerting my creative vision early on because I do get respected by Filmmakers that I'm working with or in this case of television in television the executive producer is kind of like the director in movies Of course, it's not like and stuff like you've done like the television you've done and some of it's you know It's pretty pretty astounding the felicity was huge sports night should have you know been more right?
Yeah, you got I remember that was Aaron Sork and in the first one right was JJ Abrams's first show Yeah, and you know 24 obviously but Friday night lights The vision of that it was at Pete Berg. Yes, like I know I knew Pete Berg I briefly live with Pete Berg years ago in Culver City It's a great guy well guy great. Well guy. Yeah, I haven't seen him in years I've tried to get him on but I think he's nervous because I knew him when we were sharing an apartment with Steve Brill in Culver City And he's trying to make a Prince movie.
Yeah, you should do with him He's a first-class very first-class guy, but he's also like it's interesting for me to yeah I haven't talked to him in decades, but you know he has a vision doesn't he as a director He has a vision he's very creative and he can act out things because he's an actor first I mean I think he's a person that does well with collaboration But I but I that's a hell ashby did really well with collaboration He did his worst movies without collaboration without a strong producer He did his best movies was with you know a strong producer or a visionary like Warren Beatty So Pete I think is one of those guys I think he's got an abundance of ideas and in a measurable amount of energy and creative energy But I think he's always good where he has got someone that's sort of partnering with him on structure You know like real in a minute real in a middle of yeah And you did a rest of development which people love my world of comedy. Yes. Yes, highly respected now Did you get that out of the gate or was that something wrong how to sell you on I didn't get it out of the gate I figured yeah, it was a little too complex for me. It was a little subtle and complex.
I'm not part now It didn't it was really going away. I want it. You're very intuitive. It's right.
It didn't have a heart It was really funny and kids love it. One of the reasons I don't like it. It's not that I don't like it I respect it, but I can't walk in yeah exactly I respect it too, but I can't lock it either Yeah, but we're gonna get a grandmother's one of the best for us. Yes, exactly.
They were touchy-feely grandma's right Yeah, I meant the world to them. Yeah exactly exactly exactly So I respected it, but I didn't get it. Yeah, yeah, and I root for it now We're gonna do another round of it. I mean kids people love the show, but you're right.
Yeah, it's definitely got a lot more Heart than more of mine. Yeah, I love it. You know Dave Cross another friend of mine. He was just in here.
Yeah, he's a cool guy for sure He's a very funny guy. I mean, it's very funny. He actually has heart. No, he does.
Yeah, yeah, it's a cranky heart But he's exactly technically definitely has a well Bateman too is a very heartful guy Yes, yeah, so you know out of like in this amazing career where you know, you you are the the guy at the top of everything I mean, you know, I know the book a curious mind is about you having conversations with people But but in terms of all these guys you got to work with what was for you, you know, like like an honor where you were like Oh my god, I mean like as a producer, you know, they're all coming to you But there's got to be some party like you say you like Gus man's and because you respect his vision and that was a Ballsy thing to do to do psycho shot for shot for shot. I didn't do that. Well, right? No, it didn't It was a weird experiment.
It was a weird experiment, but I just thought wow He just I thought he was such a brilliant artist I thought and he's sort of Andy Warhol like and by the way I knew Andy Warhol and I just thought I just felt like it's not gonna be too expensive I We should try it like did no one has ever done it Let's just try doing this and I convinced the studio to do it and they did it and it exists and it exists Yeah, but it wasn't in the book You know, you have these weird moments where you know, you know, Condoleezza Rice talks about shooting in Mexico because he didn't want you to die Yes, and then well the Jonas Salk thing. I mean that must have been some sort of weird childhood fantasy that was for you to meet the guy Because he got so much press for curing polio. He's a big guy Jonas Salk. Definitely so he was probably you know In the work that because I didn't was so with people I've met versus movie people I would say Jonas Salk was a top of the list because you know I had this unique it took about a two and a half two years to meet with him I did was old at that time.
I mean how over you years Right after splash I was probably like 38 or something. So he must have been pretty old already, right? Yeah, but he was really vital yeah And basically we had one meeting just the two of us and then he said let's have a meeting where you bring three people and I bring Three people and we'll do it at your house with no agenda and it was fantastic I brought Sidney Pollock George Lucas who brought Linda Ronstadt and And he brought a woman that Did the figured out the left in the bright left in the right brain hemisphere and how they work operationally and and someone that was expert on robotics a Nobel Prize winner and I would have these meetings like that with No one yes, alone, but I mean so I say Jonas Salk I met some just the greatest people princess died I mean that was a tear jerking first it was really fun and funny I talked her into sharing a bowl of ice cream with me An event and if you weren't if you weren't in the position you were any of you this annoying guy So I sort of seduced her into into helping me get a bowl of ice cream at this dinner because it didn't provide it Right when I got it I said I took a scoop I said you try a scoop and I handed her a spoon and we both we went back and forth on and I thought I'm like having a date right now. I'm having what I'm having sex apprentice.
I any moment It was a big day for you know a lot of things I've met a lot of very interesting, you know Michael Jackson was amazing and he was like Mozart he's brilliant and that's all in the book and then there's also I gave was interesting because you know meeting with Condolee Condolee's a rice You know negotiating with NASA and there's sort of this the suggestion or the reality that you met with several CIA directors That you know you will not you can't divulge what was talked about it But is there a relationship with with the high level of motion pictures in the US government in terms of of anything? No, I don't know about that I mean look I've met with William Casey and William Colby also and those were CIA directors And I also it informed a point of view that enabled me to champion 24 into life because it's just like there's so much red tape Basically why I wanted to meet with CIA directors is they have access to all the information in the world and all the secrets And I just wanted to understand because I'm so fascinated with human capacity Mm-hmm like if you have access to all of that are you able to assimilate that information or able to how do you really use it? Do you use it singularly or do you have many lieutenants under you that are using that information? How much are you able to really how much is one man or one woman able to comprehend just data itself less than we think and think probably and But using it in all the time in world challenging life or death situations And that's what heightens my intro what heightened my interest in that and and I said that sort of bled over into what 24 was So getting back to the other question because like what I'm sensing and what I appreciate about you is that you know You know exactly your place and you know you obviously had tremendous success with it So there's a confidence to it, you know you can get things done But you also know your limitations which is important as a person Yes, so that means you know you know that you can't do what a director does You can't do what an actor does but you know what they do and who the best is and what's right for a particular project?
And I imagine you know that on the money end too So you know in all this work you've done I imagine it's easy to take people for granted on some level that like of course He's gonna do that that's what he does that director or that actor Right now where have there been moments where you were like holy shit This guy is a genius beyond what I you know even imagined Wow great question mostly no Lifetime curiosity Well as far as know you're saying they meet their your expectations Yeah, they meet expectations, you know I can rely upon my analysis right right and there's some consistency right there I mean I have a really fun times and profound experiences with some master directors I was surprised with Ridley Scott. Yeah, he was he's so brilliant on American Gangster because he he's a world creator He creates worlds Yeah, and I wanted to go there every day on this movie so I could see how he does that and while he's by the way When he does second unit all that action stuff Yeah, he's actually writing that action stuff and he like an architect draws upside down and it's just a I was very and he's to this day like I love him. I was making martinis together I just and he just made the Martian when another giant So I was I was surprised with him. That's good I've worked a Clint Eastwood twice loved working with him Change was sort of a haunting movie It was a really haunting movie and Angelina Jolie did an amazing job and she was really fun to work with and remains a friend Okay, well your friend seems like you got a lot of friends still I did I still have a lot of fun You seem like you're in good shape.
Thanks, and I appreciate you talking to me. Oh, thanks. Thanks for having me Yeah, I tell you did I tell you a great talk that was Brian grazer again his book is a curious mind the secret to a bigger life And I think he put the book out because he wants to share God knows he doesn't need the bread But that was a it was a great talk. I enjoyed it By the way the music remix on the show is done by DJ coppley check him out at the web puppy 45 on Twitter Our theme music is by John Montagne.
You can go to WTF pod calm for all your WTF pod needs get on the mailing list Look at the merch get those poster orders in you do it today. It's getting tight and my my poster packer guy Frankie You know, he's gonna he's got to go away for Christmas, too So if you want to order merch or Brian Jones mugs or whatever you're gonna order do it What else man what else holidays or upon us? Yeah, I can play some guitar For those of you like wait wait is market