Episode 680 - Ben Hoffman

Alright, let's do this. How are you, what the fuckers? What the fuck buddies? What the fucking ears?

What the fucksicles? What's going on? It's Mark Maron here. This is WTF.

I gotta tell you, man. I gotta be honest with you, folks. I am having a good time on set. There's something about being in this fourth season and just, you know, knowing what's up and knowing that it's probably going to be the last one and knowing that we've got this sort of full through line.

This season is going to all be in order. There's a full seasonal arc with several different environments and they're all pretty much made up and just working with actors again and just being, you know, feeling comfortable and confident. I think like today, what do we do today? Who do I work with today?

Ron Stark is who I work with today. We really just started working together the other day and it's fucking hilarious. And also, like, if you have not seen the show, Marin, and I don't plug myself that much, really, but all three seasons are on Netflix and they do get better. I'm proud of all of them, but I think that a lot of people sort of were kind of disturbed and a little bit blown away by the season finale of the last season, but we are picking up a year later from that scenario.

So think what you will. I've shaved off my mountain man-style beard. I'm back to the traditional Marc Maron facial hair configuration and it's weird. I'll tell you one thing that I realized about having a lot of hair when I did.

I never had a beard like that before and my hair was very long is that there is a great freedom in not giving a fuck about how you look. Because, like, when you have a long fucked up hair and just a big old shitty beard, it's like, what's the point? What do you think is going to change? What is there to keep in order?

Not much. You just don't want your beard fluffing out too much so your head looks all weird and round like some peculiar Shakespearean clown. I did get some flat from those people who didn't know why the beard was there about, like, oh, you're one of those guys now. No, it was for a role.

But I did like it. I did like the way it looked. I like the gray in it. I think there's a beard in my future.

When I fully give up, I think there's a beard in my future. I don't want my beard to represent anything trendy other than I don't give a fuck anymore. If I ever have a beard again, you will know that. I'm telling you honestly that if you see me in a beard in the future, it means I truly don't give a fuck anymore.

What a liberating day that will be. But not liberating right now. Right now, I'm well-coiffed. I have a mustache and a soul patch to maintain and a short haircut to worry about.

And, you know, just trying to look good. Look for the, you know, look clean. I can't wait to get that. I don't give a fuck.

But you people have to give a fuck. No, no, I got lozenge stuck way down to my... Okay, I got it. Munch on these nicotine lozenges still.

And God damn, I love them. And that's why someday, folks, maybe when I grow the I don't give a fuck anymore beard, I'll rid myself of all compulsive behavior. I think I'm talking about a future Buddha mark that wanders around with no self-loathing thoughts or self-critical assessments with no vanity, no shame, no aggravated compulsive behaviors to relieve me of the stress of me. Just a bearded man dressed simply, not talking much, and laughing inside because he truly doesn't give a fuck because he's free.

That's my future. I don't know where that mark will be walking. I don't know what that mark will be doing. He will not be working.

I fear that he may wander from town to town, giggling to himself through his beard, maybe stopping for not even coffee anymore, maybe some mint tea like they drink in the Middle East, some warm mint tea on a hot day. That's the one thing I learned in Jerusalem. I learned nothing mystical. There's no cathartic, you know, in retrospect, deeply spiritual moment.

But I was baffled and confused by some of the Arab people who sold things in stores as they sat around and drank hot mint tea poured through like a lift. They lift the pot up as they pour it. So there's a long stream of hot mint tea. I remember saying, why?

Why the fuck do you drink hot tea? Man, it's 100 degrees outside. If I didn't say that, I said, can I ask you a question? Why are you guys drinking hot tea?

It's really hot out. And the fella told me, he said, well, your body's hot. It's 96 degrees in there. So if you dump a bunch of cold liquid into it, it's going to require energy to get that liquid to 96 degrees to body temperature.

So you're going to generate more heat trying to process the cold liquid than you would drinking some tea that's about body temperature. So actually, the mint is cooling and the warmth of it will not generate any more heat within your body to cause you more heat. I always remember that and I never listened to it. Did I mention who I had on the show today?

Ben Hoffman had a show on Comedy Central a while back. I believe it was the Ben show. Now, back when he was doing that, I didn't have him on here because I didn't think I liked him. I honestly did not think I liked this guy.

There was something about him that rubbed me the wrong way. Now, some of you know when that happens, if you do a little further investigation, either they are truly rubbing you the wrong way because there's a problem or they might be a little similar to you and that's what you're reacting to. I don't like that guy because he seems to have something that I have inside me that I don't find pleasant. Yeah.

Whatever the reason, I didn't have him on there. And then I got this record in the mail. I didn't know what it was. I don't keep track of shit because I do a lot of things and I get a lot of promotional material.

I get a lot of records. I get a lot of books. Some of them are solicited. Some are.

But I just get this record. I get a lot of records. And it's this big country record. There's a dude on front.

It's this guy, Wheeler Walker Jr. And it's just a classic cheesy country record cover with a dude sort of laying on. Hold this. He's laying on.

I think he he's on his elbow. I think he's like, you know, just he's got a big cowboy hat, sunglasses. Very reminiscent of the country records that I was. I remember from when I was a kid in New Mexico.

And the thing was, I didn't know what it was. And I thought it was a country record. And the record's called Redneck Shit. So there's this cowboy dude on the cover.

And I'm like, wow, this guy's a little out of date. Or maybe it's just classic country. I don't know why I'm getting it. But I do get country records.

I enjoy country records. You know, and I'm like, wait a minute. Is that fucking Ben Hoffman? That's fucking Ben Hoffman.

So I listened to the record. And it's like, it's a real country record. I mean, it sounds good. The production is good.

I mean, the songs are a bit crass and a bit shocking to some degree in terms of what you expect out of a country record. You know, one of them's called Fuck You, Bitch. One of them's called Better Off Beaten Off. One of them's called Beer, Weed, and Coochie.

One of them's called Sit on My Face. One of them's called Eatin' Pussy and Kickin' Ass. Which I remember seeing live years ago in a sketch show that I know was him. And then there's one called Fightin' Fuckin' Fartin'.

Now, like, all right. I don't love parody records. I don't love joke records. But the thing about this record was it's beautifully produced music.

And they're real country songs. If country would sort of loosen up a little bit, I think. So it's a tight parody in a way. But I just couldn't believe it was this kid Ben Hoffman.

And I was impressed with it. And I knew he rubbed me the wrong way. But I'm like, fuck, I want to talk to Ben Hoffman. I like this idea, whatever the fuck this is.

This Wheeler Walker Jr. business. So then we have this long conversation, which you'll hear in a moment. You know, it turns out we have a lot in common.

You know, I'm a Jew from New Mexico. He's a Jew from Kentucky. And there was just, I don't know. You know, it's also part of my own sort of reconstruction around the South.

Like, over the years, I've, you know, become progressively more enamored with the South. And, you know, very excited by it. And I love going there. And all the stereotypes have sort of, you know, faded away from me.

You know, and to the point where I, it's one of my favorite parts of the country. But now I get this opportunity to talk about this, you know, with this Jewish guy who grew up in Lexington, grew up listening to country music, and made this country record, you know, with real dudes. I mean, he made it with, like, the same crew that does Jason Isbell records, that does Sturgill Simpson records. It was produced by Dave Cobb in Nashville.

So we got into this conversation about people's understanding or misunderstanding about the stereotype of being Southern, and also about being a Jewish Southerner, and, you know, about a lot of other things. But about country music specifically, because I'm a guy who plays music, I don't take myself that seriously. And, you know, Ben is a guy that created this character to do this music, and really became enamored with playing the music, and writing the songs, and singing them in character. And we really just had a conversation about, you know, what is country music, and who is entitled to call themselves a country musician, or a country or a country music record.

And also just the fact that this is a guy that's not fundamentally a lifer, music-wise, but enjoyed playing music. So I don't know, man. He's got a very sort of strange frequency and persistency that I found, I had a good time with Ben Hoffman, talking about all those things. And we are going to play a song from the record of his choosing at the end.

You know, take it how you're going to take it. You know, it's a Wheeler-Walker Jr. country music. But right now, let's go to my conversation with Ben Hoffman.

Hold that thing into your face. Yeah, that's what I need to do. Yeah, yeah. I'm a germaphobe, so I think that's my issue.

Are you really? Yeah. Like, how bad? Pretty bad.

I mean, we're going right into it. Sure, why not? Yeah, I mean, you know. No, I don't know.

Behavior therapy. I mean, I did the whole fucking thing. I did the whole fucking thing. I did the whole classes.

For germaphobia? For OCD, yeah. Oh, for OCD. Yeah, I had to rub a dollar bill on my forehead.

Whoa, you're talking about this like, you know, everyone's like, oh yeah, the old... Yeah, I always do that. I always explain. Like, you know that thing, and no one's ever heard of it.

You have to rub a dollar bill on your face? Well, they said graduation was... It's not a joke to stick your hand in the toilet. Graduation was to stick your hand in the toilet.

I did not graduate. No fucking way. But no, I did have to, like, touch the ground. It's like this new form of OCD therapy, and you would, like, touch the ground and touch your face, and then not be able to wash your face or your hands for, like, six hours.

So this is like... It's like overexposure, yeah. Cognitive conditioning. Yeah.

Almost like Pavlovian. Yeah, so when you're, like, on a train home, that's nothing. I've touched the ground. I rub a dollar bill on my face.

I get the idea of it. It didn't work. It didn't work. I think it worked as a reference point, but it...

You know, I think you need to really stay on it to kind of do... You know? Yeah. It's not like when I shake some disgusting guy's hand, and I'm not like, oh, remember I did this thing in this class.

You don't have to wake up in the morning and just rub some money on your face. Sleep with money. Yeah, it's not like going to the gym. I don't do it every morning.

Do you go to the gym? Well, I try to. I haven't gone as much. But I mean, is that because of the gym thing, or just because you're lazy fuck?

That's more than lazy fuck. Yeah, some of these things, the lazy fuck OCD, anxiety, and neuroses, you start to know what's what. Sometimes the OCD supports the lazy fuck rationalization. Yeah, but sometimes OCD helps.

It's like, it doesn't work for me, but it could be like, you know, you'd get obsessed about going to the gym. Right. I wish I had that OCD instead of the like... But how long have you had this OCD business?

Oh, shit. Your whole life? My whole life. It got really kind of unmanageable, early 20s.

Like you fell into yourself? Like you couldn't get out of the house, or you were kind of free in your own hands? It was bad enough that my parents noticed. Because I remember, I remember one time I went out to meet some friends, and then I went to the gas station, like, oh, that pump is covered in chemicals.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I went back home, I had to take a shower, I'm like, fuck it, what's the point of going out? I mean, like those kind of, I had a bunch of those kind of nights where it was like, the amount of work it takes to get out of the house. Well, I've gotten into sort of a washing my hands thing, but I think that's healthy.

Yeah, I think it is, as long as it doesn't get in the way, I'm much better, but as long as it doesn't get in the way of your life, it's like... Yeah, yeah. But you're just unmanageable? Yeah, I couldn't do anything.

Really? So wait, now... Not just use that as an excuse. Right, you can get out, you know, you can...

I can't, because I got a thing. Yeah, by the time I wash my hands, there's no way I can make it out. By the time I wash my hands, again. Yeah, six now, you want me to nine at the top of nine?

Because I have some hand washing to do. I don't want to explain it, but... Oh, shit, that's Friday, that's shower night. Yeah, that's several shower day.

But, uh, so you're not on TV anymore? No. That also hurts the OCD. Yeah.

But what happened? So it was the, uh, what was it, it was Ben, what was it called? Well, it was called The Ben Show. The Ben Show.

I feel like I met you during that, like, I was going to have you on. I probably would have saved the show, I apologize. By the way, can I tell you what happened during that? With me?

Yeah, with the show. I don't think I ever told you this. I think I only met you once. No, we met a couple, I think we met a couple.

I misunderstood you as being unpleasant. Yes, I wasn't, but this will explain it all. So my Twitter, which, by the way, we both know Twitter's kind of a waste of time. I've got to get out of it.

I've got to get out of it. It feels, if you're OCD and also needy and also an addictive person, it's like torturing yourself. It really is, so I decided my thing is, I'm just going to be lies. I'm just going to make up shit.

Oh, okay. Because I just fuck with people. I think, I don't know if you know, a couple of them actually got in the news because they thought it was real. Oh, really?

So you're talking about the pranking? No, when Obama was re-election, when Clooney had that thing for Obama, I tweeted as if I was there, and I tweeted something like crazy shit. I said, what was the one that got me in the news? I said that, I pretended I was hanging out with Billy Gibbons the whole time, which obviously he wasn't there.

Because no one, it was like a press blackout, so no one was there, so I pretended like I was there. Are you friends with Billy? I never met. I started describing the speech.

So everyone's like, oh, this guy's in the speech. And then I go, Obama's got kind of a racy thing there, he said, I forget the exact quote, but he said that Obama said that George Clooney's, look at this crowd, George Clooney, you know, a lot of people. Clooney must have more pull than Travolta and a massage barber or something like that. Yeah, yeah, like a racy joke.

Yeah, and then all the press was like, you wouldn't believe what Obama said. So then that got me excited. I could start fucking with people more. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And it never, like, I think one word, some people won't work. For the most part, it's just me lying on Twitter and trying to get like three dudes not to believe me. And it got traction because people thought you were really there? How irresponsible is the fucking press that that can happen?

Well, it's hilarious. It's amazing, but, and that was right around, but what I'm getting into about the view was so then for no reason at all, when Seth Meyers got the late night gig, I was like, fucking shit, that was my gig. It goes down to, again, I've never met, Lauren, I've never met Seth Meyers, obviously the last person they would call to audition for that. I go, it was down to me, Tom Green, and Seth Meyers.

All the NBC execs told me I had the gig, but they knew they would have to give it to Seth because of Lauren. Yeah. Oh yeah, I'm repeating, don't mind any of them. And then, of course, 10 people.

I was hoping it was like 10 dudes. What happened? But anyway, it was one of those things that nobody picked up on, so then I was like, I'm so fucking bored. And I go, fuck this, I'm done.

I'll explain it all on the WTF podcast Thursday. And you just saw that last tweet, and you go, I can't do Thursday. Let's talk about next week. I'm like, oh fuck.

Like the one guy who didn't want to trick Reddit, and then, of course, by the laws of nature, I ran into you at Fogarty the next night. So I was like, fuck, now I look like a fucking ass, I'm not going to call you back because you think I'm coming in to talk, I don't know how much you read backwards, you think I'm coming in to talk about the... I don't think I put it all together. I think you just saw that last week.

Yeah, like, all right, this guy wants to do the shows. But I was demanding to come in. It was just said as a joke, and you read the last tweet, and I felt like an asshole, so I was like, I've got to keep my distance by the way. Oh, so you were awkward?

It's weird, because I didn't even register it that way. I don't remember putting it together as being part of some narrative. Because you're a normal person, you weren't reading every tweet. You just...

I saw the last one that referenced you. Exactly. I like that about as me. Yeah, why would you go back and read my whole timeline?

The thing was, I thought you were going to come on because of the Ben show. I couldn't tell the difference between your on-screen demeanor and what you might be normally. It wasn't that much different. I mean, I actually really liked the show.

I mean, I still can't believe they aired the fucking thing, to be honest with you. It was pretty out there. I think people kind of got it. To me, it was like, I'm going to do a sketch show.

I'm going to show my real life. You know, like you and Louis are doing, but I'm just going to show my life. Right, right, yeah, yeah. I think people thought I was doing a Kaufman or something.

It really was my fucking life. And then it was just like, your life's not that funny or exciting. You know, and I mixed sketches. And they really didn't know what it was.

Basically, when they called, I'm like, you know, we're not airing this shit anymore. Well, how did it start, the Ben show? Where did you fucking come from? Like, you were one of these guys where it's sort of like, oh, this guy's all over the place, and I don't know who he is.

You know, I'm actually from Kentucky, believe it or not. You grew up there? Yeah, I grew up in Kentucky. My family's mostly from Tennessee.

Jews from Tennessee. Can you explain that to me, how that happened? I don't know. Like, is there generations of Jews from Tennessee?

Because I don't know if I've met that many Southern Jews, but I know they've been down there a long time. Well, I knew my great-grandmother. She died when I was like 13. Really?

She almost made it to my bar mitzvah. But that killed her. Yeah, the idea of it. The idea of a bar mitzvah in Kentucky killed her.

By the way, there were four bar mitzvahs in my class that year. Must have been a very small temple. I'm not making this up. My temple was this creaky old building downtown.

Four of us. In where? In Lexington? You don't really get the cream so he's like eyes rolling back in his head about who was a horror movie.

I'm 10 years old. 13. No, I was leading up to it. And his fake leg was uncomfortable.

So he put the fake leg, the white plastic leg with the black rabbi shoe and the black sock up on the table while he's doing his Hebrew. And the four of us, it sounds made up like, my mom would be dropping me off and I'm grabbing onto the fucking station wagon. I remember telling the other parents, this is 11 years old or whatever. You don't understand.

There's a blind, one-legged man. He's taking his leg off. His eyes are rolling back. He's talking this language that we don't understand.

What the fuck is going on? And we don't want to go. about that stuff because I remember my dad, I remember like, I don't want to do this. This is stupid.

And he just was like, my dad had to do it. I had to do it. He skipped all the parts. He knew that shit wasn't going to work.

He's just like, shut up and do it. Shut up and do it. You're a Jew. So your great grandmother was alive though almost?

Yeah, well, I remember her telling you, they put her and her sister on a boat from Russia to Chattanooga, Tennessee in 1901. Oh, okay. So my family goes back to... Still that first generation immigrants.

First generation immigrants. Early 1900s. Yeah, like they got off the boat. Because I think there were some Civil War Jews.

There were, probably not. There can't be that many, right? I don't know. I think, you know, I know that this information is out there.

Maybe I'm just lazy because it's not the research project I want to be involved with. But given the history of Jews in the import-export business, I have to assume that there must have been Jews that had come over from, you know, London or Europe that were probably involved in slave trading. God knows what. I mean, they've been around.

Jews have been around for a while. Yeah, all my family, especially in the Nashville area, like Nashville and Chenu, like Murphysburg around there, they all go away. I mean, when I go back to Nashville, it's like, I was talking about the show. And the woman comes up to me, she's like, Ben Hoffman?

I'm like, I'm looking back at my brother, like, yeah, you fucker, see, check it out. Now it's my turn. She's like, I love the Ben show. I was like, fuck yeah, you look at this, you know, my fans.

And she's like, every episode's so funny. She's like, do you know what? She's like, I know your cousin Robbie. I was like, oh, no way, how do you know him?

She's like, I'm married to him. I was like, so you're my fucking cousin. It's not a star-saccent. It doesn't count.

Yeah. So I've had dinner with him. You've been to my parents. What is this?

Yeah, it's not real. Then my brother, of course, that led back to me. Your brother led back to me. Yeah, but I go back there and I just work.

It's a really big family. So where were you born? I was born actually in St. Louis because my dad is from St.

Louis and he was a doctor. Oh, really? What kind of doctor? Internist.

What's your dad? Orthopedic. Used to be. So your dad's a general practitioner, basically.

Yeah. Full service doctor. Anything, yeah. He knows a little bit about everything.

Well, not when I call, but yeah. Well, my youngest brother's a doctor. Really? Yeah, so.

That guy turned out okay. He's good. Well, you know, my other brother, I was always the one they were concerned about. You were the oldest one?

I was the oldest. Like, you know, like when I got the show, it wasn't like, oh, wow, he has a TV. It was like, I can't believe he's getting up, he's going to a job. Like, he's getting out of the shower.

He's not watching. I see him on TV, he's not having everything. He's functioning. That was the bigger news.

But your brother's band was pretty big, right? They were cute. Yeah, they're on a, kind of on hiatus right now. He was always, you know, I was in the band, and he was, like, you know, kind of tagging along.

Right. You played in rock bands when you were a kid? Yeah. Like, how old are you?

I'm 41. So, all right, so you and your two brothers are growing up, little Jews in Lexington, Kentucky. Yeah. Your young brother, obviously, the more disciplined one.

They were both, my middle, he's smart, he went to Columbia, New York, which is not really a cool rock star. So, I guess, smart people go to Brown, the artists, the more ardier ones usually come from Brown, but he's Ivy League educated. Yeah, and the youngest brother went to this one, I was the one who was, like, the hopeless. Can't your brother play a lot of instruments?

Oh, yeah, he plays, on the albums he plays most of the instruments. Yeah, but he's a bass player by nature? I think he ended up playing, he switches around live, I think he ended up playing bass, mostly live, because that was the hard one. Is he a wizard, though?

Is he, like, a guitar wizard? Yeah, I would say my brother's best quality, other than his, than being gay, is, um, which, you know, is, uh, How does that help you with that? I just met a lot of cool gay guys. You know, I wouldn't have met those guys without that.

Yeah. But that first record, I mean, he engineered it, he kind of built the computer there, but also wrote this, you know, he wrote the songs with his buddy Jason, who's the singer. So, he was really, he has what I don't have, which is he can kind of do the technical stuff and the creative stuff. Well, I think if you're like me, or if your anxiety is at a certain point, it's just, you know, thinking about doing the technical stuff is just exhausting.

Like, I'm not taking a nap to sink in by it. Well, I was like, you know what, everyone's doing these podcasts, I'm going to do a podcast. So, I did, I spent, like, two days, and I recorded the, you know, this song, you know, and I sent the song around to my friends, and they're like, what do you think? And they're like, where's the podcast?

You know, like, we don't want the song, because I didn't realize all I wanted was a theme song. Like, I don't want to fucking do a podcast. So, like, I spent all the time, like, that was the cool part for me, so I never really. Did you do the song?

Yeah, because I was one of them to go, like, that's fucking badass. Yeah, so did you do it on GarageBand? No, my brother taught me how to use, Pro Tools? It was the Mac Pro Tools, the Logic, because I called, I was in Kentucky, he was, you know, in the 90s.

Imagine those nicest horses there. I'm a Jewish, I'm allergic to horses. How are you not allergic to horses? I swear to God.

You mean, like, mentally allergic or really like... I would go to the races with my friend and I would swell up. I mean, like, my friends and their parents were already anti-Semitic enough, and then I show up at the horse races with them and I, like, start swelling. I'm like, I can't go to the horse races.

So, what, you'd break out? I spent my summers as a farmhand, and I would, like, just load up on Claritin, and I actually was back home recently. How much is this bullshit? I swear this is all fucking real.

I gave you a job. Two summers in a row, I was a farmhand. But, like, what did you do? What was...

My specialty was weed eating. You know what that is? Yeah, that was your specialty. That was my specialty.

It was one of the few things I could fucking do. And then me and my buddy, John, one of the other Jews in town, this is mainly Jewish, Jewish employee of the farm, and we would go out and we would just hide because the farm is so big that you could see them coming for a mile. So, we would just hide and, like, talk about, like, the new, you know, Guns N' Roses record or whatever it was. I've done that.

And then when you see them coming, you'd, like, get up. The best one of all was that pic that I only thought was in cartoons and you would go out on the street and you would, like, pick up all the trash with a nail on top? With a nail on top. I thought that was made up.

I think I made one of those because I thought it was the coolest thing I ever saw. But the fun part about that is you'd see, it was on the highways, you'd see all the crazy shit that people throw away. Like, all Polaroids. Yeah, yeah, there's so much shit.

That was actually, that was the one part, like, I could have seen myself doing that for a living. I just don't know this full time. Picking shit? Yeah.

Well, there was sort of a mystery to it when there was more interesting things to throw away. Well, compared to, like, mowing or, like, feeding horses. Things that people had to get out of the car quickly. Yeah, exactly.

And then I remember one time we did see the two guys in, like, you know, the orange suits, like, walking the other way. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm going to pay a lot more than you do. You could get that job.

You just have to do something really wrong. Yeah, exactly. But it was weird to be like, I thought I'm on the right path. I'm doing the same thing that guy.

The punishment. The convicts are doing. Where'd you go to college? Did you go to college?

I went off to, I went to two years at Tulane in New Orleans. Then I came back to finish at Kentucky. Kentucky State or something? University of Kentucky.

Yeah? You couldn't handle New Orleans? I was just a, I just wasn't ready for college, I don't know. What, did you freak out?

Did you, like, were those guys did you have to go to the doctor? Well, I think it was when all this neuroses kind of started and then I'm, like, away from home and, you know, like, How did it manifest itself? Like, were you, like, just re-owned the road? And then, of course, you know.

But you get there and you're like, what were you studying? Were you, like, were you? I didn't fuck. I was just so low.

I didn't know what the fuck I wanted to do. So you were one of those guys that, like... Basically, my parents met at Tulane. Okay.

So in high school, I was like, somebody told me, like, if you're, like, a, what's it called? Legacy, you can get it easier to get into a school. I'm like, I'll just apply there and I can get it out of the way. Just, like, I'll just get in really fast.

I didn't think about it. I went there, I'm like, what the fuck am I doing? And it was a very strange school. It was, like, you know, because I was thought of there as a hick.

You know, like, some dude from Kentucky. I'm like, fuck, I drove 12 hours to South to get here, you asshole. It's all these Jersey and New York guys. And I remember my mom would leave me a message on a machine and they're like, you know, Benjamin, you know, give me a call.

And they're like, ah, your mom's a redneck. I'm like, we're in fucking Louisiana. Focus on the Southern Boys. Yeah, back in the answering machine.

I remember my brother said he had the same issue. In Columbia? I remember him telling me once that some people in the dorm, I never heard this one before, they said that, back before cell phones, your phone bills must be crazy. And he's like, why?

Go all along. That was the point of this. That's what the fucking show was for. The show was a way to get into music.

The Ben Show was just on the way to... Oh no, I really get cut out there. So anyway, it was called The Ben Show. But then there was a magician in Canada who had a magic show called The Ben Show.

Yeah. And they're like, oh no, that's a legal problem. Comedy Central said, can't do it. And I'm like, we went to the Ben Show website, this guy, this magician.

The magic, it had like 50 views, probably all Comedy Central. Yeah. And he ends the show by saying, have a good afternoon. Yeah.

It's a daytime magic show, live. Anyway, so they made me call it The Ben Show with Ben Hoffman, which is like the most pretentious... It's like, I don't need my name in it once, much less... So all of a sudden it's like, became, you know, like my name fucking everywhere.

But how long ago was that? The Ben Show was... I was 30... 39.

39. So, okay. I'm 41 now. You're 41.

So, what the fuck... I was 38 when I got it. Well, I think the... I would say my first eight years in LA was like...

So you were here eight years before the Ben Show? Yeah. I was going to say, I think my first eight years... It took me like eight years to get to step one.

And then like step one... That's about right, though. I was like, oh, cool. You get to work with cameras.

Yeah. It's not really... So you graduate college and your parents are like, so what now? I had no fucking...

How did they say that? Because it seems like there's a big gap. I moved here when I was 25. Okay.

All right. But when you left Kentucky... I left Kentucky and then... Were your parents like, it's okay, Ben.

No, no, no. I don't remember... Listen, I love my parents. We get along well, but it's okay, Ben was not...

I don't remember that phrase. But I remember... So after college, I was literally like, I do not know what the fuck to do. Because I didn't know anything about...

I was like, what's the job? I'm a rock star. I'd be like, where do you apply? I still have a $20 guitar.

If I'd know my fucking brother could do, I probably would have gone for it. But I remember some friends moved out to Portland. I had a house in Portland. And it was like, the room's for like 250 bucks a room.

I was like, fuck, let's Portland. That's where I was meant to be. Out west. That lasted about six months.

You went to Portland? What happened there? So wait, let's get back to something. So, because I just want to...

I want to know better. Because you have a fairly consistent demeanor here on the mic. Yeah. But at some point, that fragment I did at some point.

Yeah, I mean, even when I lose my mind, I'm pretty mellow about it. Really? Yeah. But when you say you went to college, because when I went to college freshman year, I was pretty fucking lost.

And you end up hanging around with a lot of different people to try and find yourself. Or were you more isolating? Did you find a big dude? No, I was like...

Did you write for the paper? I had nothing. No, I had nothing. I was like, oh, I'll just get fucked up and hang.

So you did what, booze? Mainly booze. I remember I did mushrooms once. Yeah.

And I remember being at a port-a-potty outside of port-a-potty during Mardi Gras and deciding that... I remember looking up at the sky and I was like, Lord, I'm not a religious person. If you get me out of this, I will pay you back by becoming a rabbi. That was your mushroom experience?

That was my mushroom experience. So I woke up the next morning and I was like... I mean, of course, talking to the wall like, listen, you don't want me to become a rabbi. I don't want to be a rabbi.

Let's forget this happened. I'm okay now. Yeah, I'm fine. Like, let's just...

I won't touch drugs. You know, say drugs are not my thing. I like that you came down and still felt you needed to renegotiate. I came down.

I was like, I said some stuff last night that I shouldn't have said. But also, there's no world that wants me. And also, the idea that whatever my brain thought that becoming a rabbi would even it out. It's so weird.

But I remember just... If you're going to try psychedelics, it's not the place. Shit, no, man. I remember this guy...

I only stripped during the day. I couldn't handle it that well. It was not my thing. I didn't have a strong enough sense of self to begin with.

So expanding that, it just amplifies the vulnerability. And you just feel like you're... That's what everyone says. It'll expand your mind.

I want to strip my mind. I need to tighten it up. But like I was just by myself and now I'm like, I'm going to go out. and i'm like oh no just evil everywhere so you're in too lane for two years you lose your shit a little bit you just know what the fuck you're doing you go back to kentucky so your parents are there so you have some familiarity right and then you did your laundry your parents house your mom actually did it right yeah but you know you tried to you know try to convince yourself that you were living your own life i guess a little bit or were they still supporting the uh the confusion then after kentucky like six months in portland then i can't it's all these like starts and stops what happened in portland that must have been it was like nothing bad happened it was that was really when it was like i gotta figure out what this is like this so you're just living in a group house with a bunch of stoners and people basically i mean my buddy who i'm still friends with he's he's like a um city planner now like he likes portland and then he moved to seattle he's doing city planning there so he got a real job yeah a couple of those guys got real jobs a couple who knows right where they are and then i i just love that group housing like yeah like people like not everybody lives that thing where you're just like i'm just gonna move into this place with all these freaks you don't really know them yeah like exactly i had like one friend there and the other four just like what the is happening who are the yeah yeah and where's my food and then when you get your own place after that yeah it's heaven it's heaven and then you just are like well now what do i do that was my problem you get your own place and it's like this is sad too like i like to have my own place in new york but like i remember just napping a lot yeah i guess it's kind of depressing but i just remember being so excited like it's my place and nobody peed in the water you know yeah yeah and that was chicago well yeah that's like that's what i was like i'm gonna try this comedy thing out okay so i started taking class at second city but not stand-up necessarily just comedy i've never done stand-up 10 times in my life so you go to okay so you go to chicago because of what what inspires you what what do you see well you know i was just like all these like what am i gonna do and i was like i've always loved you know and i hate to sound like too much of a you know hey seed but like in kentucky like i don't really even know that these jobs like i'm not stupid i know the different strokes is in an improv show but the idea that like you can write like because i want to be a writer sort of writer i was like but i cannot like i know i'm not like a novelist right so i'm still laughing about the renegotiation with god okay i said something like i wonder if he's still uh what if i still owe him i would assume i'm in the clear now right but just the idea that i'll be a rabbi to get me through this and then the next day you're like you know that was some crazy talk well that's my thing too is like when people offer me drugs i'm like no because last time i did it i decided to become a rabbi i don't want any drug that makes me want to become a rabbi at the time it sounded like a good what's so crazy at the time it sounded like a good idea you could see yourself as a rabbi i actually literally could see myself as a you're gonna use this horrible experience well then i could teach other people not to go down the path i took and i would have been the worst rabbi of all time all right so you know that you're not a novelist and that you know different you knew that different strokes wasn't an improv show right yes you get some sense so i'm like i can write i know that so like i was like why don't i take classes at second city and then i could like kind of look not as wanting to be a performer but like kind of learning just some kind of experience and you know with the right right there was some great teachers i don't who did you teach who was who were the guys who were on but i remember going down to see the show like it must have been from their breaks for me like seeing tina fey and rachel drashan they were there on stage yeah on the stage um and um what happened with me was a girl in my class like do you want to audition she's like i work at an advertising firm do you want to audition to be an extra in a commercial i'm like what's the page like 100 bucks i'll never work again yeah sounds great and i go audition to be an extra and i got the lead in the commercial which is not my local commercial it's actually national commercial so what commercial it was like a radio it was a radio station but they like you know like whatever the k rock whatever you know whatever city they would change the right right station thing i was like that's all i gotta do to be i was like i got some checks in the mail i'm like where do they where's more of this yeah and then i started doing second city out in uh here did you do the whole program uh most of all i halfway through it is when i had this realization that i could actually be in commercials like that's a perfect plan i'll i'll do my writing during the day and then i'll fucking do commercials um and you've probably done these commercials never did you ever did i think i auditioned for one or two i mean i was awful at it but you know when you need this jewish love i kind of do right well yeah they like the everyman guy i don't know i don't fit anything i'm just like this i didn't know but i've gotten a lot i remember getting my thing was i didn't and it was not a put on i really didn't give a shit i was like like i would go to an audition and there'd be like you know for like uh carl's jr there's like 12 burgers there like we need you to eat this burger while you're right while you're like it and i'm like this burger's been sitting out i'm not eating this thing yeah i was like i'll eat if i book the commercial like no no we need to see you eating the burger now i'll just eat the bun this meat has been sitting here you know so like i was like working on my uh writing during the day but the commercial stuff can make you lazy because you can make enough to pay your bills yeah but not enough to like live long you know like today i'm gonna go out i'm gonna go to the library and write a screenplay stuff by mailbox it's like eight grand from some like when he's commercial you're like you know what i'm gonna take a nap first because i'm good for a few months and then i'll go back so you leave chicago with the big uh with commercial money you drive out yeah you drive out drive out with my nissan ultima in the back yeah and uh and you live with who i got my own i had one person i knew here which is my cousin's cousin wasn't officially related to me i never met her before but she's like there's an opening in my building it wasn't expensive and i'm like i'm here to make it yeah and ten years later i did for eight weeks ten years later i got a billboard on sunset boulevard that was out for a week that means something i had one too it was very exciting i fought for it my epic special i was like either like you know billboards aren't that effective and i'm like can you just put one in the city where show business is that's the that is the point of the billboard yeah because it's not about promotion like there's no billboards for movies where i grew up like there's no for like furniture yeah but it is i would say that billboard probably helped my career more than anything because people are like you go to me you go to me now they're like oh yeah that's your thing yeah yeah because they broke that's yeah it's only for themselves yeah i just wanted i just it to me it was sort of like i just want to be um validated you know on that level i wanted to see a billboard and they're going up there and i don't think anybody watches special the billboard it is a big move because i remember my brother was in town so we drove up to it and like he took the picture and of course people driving down sunset are like making funny so i remember this one guy goes hey you fucking loser you never have a billboard before like no whatever the fuck have you like he's like yeah it's like you loser it wasn't yeah with the billboard of course i'm surprised i'm not here every night taking pictures uh but so you move into west hollywood you got the big plan and then i was like gonna start you know i wanted to be a comedy writer and then i just started working where you know it's a hard but you did commercials did commercials and that got you by you saved some money from that i mean did you make a lot of money i didn't make a lot i had some day jobs here and there like i was like to age myself i remember there was a you know now you already said your age so yeah but i guess i guess name my age ages myself yeah but i had a job but you know on your show you grab all that generic music from that service it used to be that they would actually have to call like you know and get on a cd yeah i stocked those cds that like like people would call i'm making a horror film and uh i need some horror music it's like we've got 10 horror cds filled with horror music then we'll grab them and he'll send a messenger over to you and get them for you okay you fucking asshole this sounds like yeah it's on the music this is you know i'll send you some new stuff sir you know i was like a sock boy right at the music wholesale place which is now basically a website yeah yeah so i was gonna say they lost tons of jobs they really only lost my job yeah um so i did that and then i weird the jobs you get when you're in show like when you're starting on show business like the first time i came out i got a job uh synopsis what do you call it when you write uh synopsis of screenplays uh something like you know they just give you a stack of screenplays and you're supposed to so that would be awesome you think it'd be awesome i put too much uh you know too much personality in them in a weird turn you know in a decision i would not exactly it was for like canon films back when that was around it is true those jobs because especially you know they're jobs that people get you but albuquerque or kentucky like the fact that this job because i remember so that my cousin's cousin yeah who i didn't even know i think it's actually called script reader yeah which to me that was a job i died for but my cousin's cousin had a friend who i didn't know she's like i need a job just a job you know something to pay the bills and she's like oh i used to work on the you know production company i can get you a job as an assistant on some right you know this new um oh yeah the pa work eddie murphy robert de niro film i was like you know that'd be awesome i actually get to see a film set i get to see cameras and learn things so i go like your appointment to meet is like um one o'clock at one like i get to go on the it's crazy so i go there and i walk up to the woman she's like any friend of elisa's is a friend of mine i just i don't know who elisa is a friend of a friend of a friend i love her yeah she's great you know so i didn't know that knowing her quote-unquote knowing her um got me past like five different right things so literally i'm waiting eight hours everyone for this interview and i don't know it's just like it's an assistant job just ask me yeah and again true story they're like all right they're just like we just you need to sign off from this guy bob like this guy what the fuck is this guy bob he's been eight hours yeah and they finally bring me in it's like bob can meet you know i go in there robert de niro get out of here i swear to god it was his personal assistant right and i'm you know how like when you're so on the movie on the movie i never had i was so thrown off by seeing robert de niro in person in 3d yeah that i was so relaxed so i remember he goes he's like um i'll just just be yourself do not lie just be yourself he'll appreciate that he's like you have any personal assistant experience i'm like no he's like are you good with children like no he's like could you know i've got dogs could you take care of the dogs i'm like no i'm really bad with dogs and and he i said no he starts laughing and stuff and he starts he's like i'm interviewing the least qualified person i'm like how the fuck because of the least person i got through the gate right and he just starts cracking up and he's like like what could like if you could like like if i need batteries on sets could you go buy them and i was like like yeah i don't really know my way i just moved on my way around and he goes what do you want to do i go i want to make movies but then i thought to myself i was like fuck they don't think i'm using them right and i made some he goes he made me i go make some short films he's like how were they so that's when i hit me like you know don't you know yeah they're the worst things you've ever seen sir and he just definitely loses it and he's like he's like he's lacking he's cracking up and next day i get a call from the woman who's like you know his go-to guy go-to woman and she's like i just want to say bob wanted me like we usually don't call when you don't get there but like bob wanted me to call you because he loved you so much but we have never met anyone less qualified for this job than you you have zero like he was basically because he thought you were funny like he was trying to help you get the job can you take care i kept saying no because like you know can you drive a stick shift because i guess i was like no like everything he said i said no to try to be like he'll appreciate my honesty at some point you gotta lie you can do something right so like those are the jobs that always like and i remember one time someone i went to a temp agency and he called me up it was like a showbiz temp agency and they're like do you want to work for we got a job at tim burton's company oh yeah i'm a big tim burton fan i'd love to you know be a pa there i go i know it's kind of like a residential place like this is weird i go it's a fucking this really nice condo and i walk in and it's just and it's his wife at the time girlfriend lisa marie remember she's like you know how to wrap presents i'm like no i was like i'll teach i was in this condo wrapping presents she's like and i remember delivering them to like johnny ramon i remember nicholas cage's like jew eating dogs outside like trying to attack like you just hire a temp to wrap your presents and then go deliver them to all like the major star it's like but even that was so exciting i'm just like calling my friends back open i was just at nicholas cage's house did you see nicholas cage no he was i think he didn't warns so that was that like a few days that job and that was that i think it was two days yeah i was rapping i learned how to wrap presents delivered them to all of tim burton's friends and then that was it seasonal yeah he doesn't have presents year round so when uh what would you consider your big break i mean so you're kicking around you're writing shit and you're doing improv well then i got a job kind of writing and being a correspondent on this um what i consider al gore's tax write-off which was the current tv i remember when that happened because i was in america so was that 2006 yeah around then and then madeline who co-created the daily show co-created the show that was supposed to be the young hip daily show i can't remember it was neither of those things i can't remember this some executive came in like either there was an aberration or my ratings went way up next last week and then the next week like it was an aberration what was it we had a point zero zero the ratings were zero because then i got in trouble because i had a plan for them i'm like listen it was right around everyone's those new hds tvs like listen just try this from eight to nine yeah color bars you put out ads that like channel 142 or whatever it was that's the station you turn to to like adjust your tv like that's funny you know that would at least get people to know in their brain like and see the rain just see the rain this is recurrent though so they have an agenda and their sense of humor is very i'm trying to do comedy and work but my big leading to my big break was i to me was my big break was uh how many shows did you do though i was there for a couple years at current yeah doing that show that was a it was a gig i mean it was hosting it hosting right i mean that's actually in fairness i learned a lot i mean i was editing my own pieces writing them you know what's it called it's called infomania that's when i like i that's when i kind of i'm like in my early mid there like this is enough with the joke i gotta get a fucking job like i came out here with i want to do good shit and but you learned on the show i learned a lot and then my living made a living and i said i got my writing my stuff over to sports show norm mcdonald and norm hired me on that show and that was like like that was what kind of started that was a network show that was a yeah it was like that was when i was like because in my head i was always like listen i'm not the smartest or the funniest you know but i think if i'm in the room with the best smartest people i can keep up yeah i don't think i'm you know i just think i just need an opportunity to be around these people and see if i can keep up and that was and you know everyone wants to write for norman he's the funniest to me the funniest fucking guy ever and you know you get going from current tv to like you know i'm sharing office with steve o'donnell who like ran letterman for 13 years and jeff martin who simpsons letterman bonan and frank sebastiano like all these guys like you know who i know the credits because i watch all these shows i think holy shit like and i'm not i'm not their level right but i'm not getting laughed at right so that was kind of my big laugh at the wrong way correct yeah i was like i'm not getting the most but i can i can i'm one of the guys you know like i'm not the you can hang i can hang and i could get stuff on i can make myself useful enough to get stuff on camera too right i got on camera and then comic central's like if you ever want to do a pilot you know come on you know we'll talk about it and then i went in and i told him about this idea for a pilot and they gave me 50 grand to make a pilot right you know i was like yeah crap service money but anyway so i was just like but then i got met you know my co-host so he he co-created tosh and i met him on norm show yeah he co-ran that and i was like yeah let's just he's like 50 grand you don't have to talk to them you don't listen to them right we'll go make whatever the fuck you want to make i'm like okay yeah we made this fucking crazy that was the one with the one with the rego therapist yeah i mean it was just like me and like girls who dumped me and like it was just kind of my real life mixed with kind of i was trying to do a narrative sketch show showing my real life and we turned it in and they were like they thought it was a joke they're like it was x-ray it was so dirty yeah and it was one of those things where like kind of the assistants around them start picking up and laughing yeah i was like oh this is really funny and then and then again when they were done i was like okay you know you did what 14 13 14 no what am i rockefeller no i did I did 8 and we had no lead in or anything I mean the ratings weren't awful but they let me know it was not a rating decision it was like we don't want this on TV did it come down to you and Nathan?

I think it you know what I hate to say that because I love Nathan's show and Nathan's a friend but I wish they hadn't told me but yeah I was like they told me we've only got room for one on the street Jew we can only have one Jew walking the street to the camera per L.A. law but I think it was the right to sit his show was so great that it's hard to argue that he just has like that's like a show with a clear point of view and like a thing where mine was just kind of me dicking around so it kind of made sense and again I might get a pilot for them six months after my what was that? I actually I don't want to throw names but Danny McBride his whole gang were fans of the show and they're like he had this idea actually I thought this was a really funny pilot he had this idea where I had a talk show where I lost my TV show I had to move back to my parents move into my parents' basement and have to have celebrities come over so it was called Sleeping With Ben and it was really weird I mean it was much weirder than I'm explaining and they're like we want you back on the air we want to do it and they watch it and they're like I think we're good I mean I did a couple run on some of the roast and some of the shit I'm still on good terms giving me the show was a much bigger deal than taking it away and getting that show led to a lot of I was going to say a lot of cool stuff a lot of cool stuff I did in there let's talk about the album because it's so funny because before I actually maybe I wasn't paying attention that you've been pitched but I get a lot of CDs from a lot of different record places just out of nowhere and I saw this one and I'm like is this guy related to Jerry Jaffer what the fuck because I get you because I'm only doing press for this album and character and then when and like this character so Wheeler Walker Jr the album is Redneck Shit so let's play it as if here's the idea I'd like to talk to the character for a minute it's really just me with a little bit of a it's too embarrassing that's the thing too I don't want to do a character because it's really just me have you done any of that press for radio? oh tons yeah not tons but yeah yeah we just played with Dave on Coe oh you did?

yeah and you put it on the getup? no I go to a podcast in that getup and they come afterwards and they're like hey Ben I don't know who you're talking I just really enjoy fucking with people I guess but the album itself I mean listen I grew up in the south who were you guys? it's funny the guys who produced it and played with me on the record had kind of the same trajectory as me which is you know you grow up with it Waylon and all those guys around then you go through your rock phase then you kind of move away and you're like fuck then it's like one of your picture buddies puts on Waylon like fuck you motherfucker like my uncle lives down the street so I just love Waylon and Willie I love the Lubin brothers old stuff and Everly brothers I was listening to so much George Jones George Jones is one of my favorites he's produced George Jones the guy who produced this produced George Jones well Dave Cobb is the producer I don't want to give him too much trouble he's probably the hottest Stapleton record and do Sergio Simpson Jason Isbell and all those guys all those guys I love and I met him through some people and I was like I've always wanted to make a country record like a legit country record but obviously it's going to come out as comedy if I do it and I played him some demos and he's like let's fucking do it like he was just like I was expecting it almost freaked me out too much like I was like maybe I've got the wrong Dave Cobb or something like maybe it's a scam and I'm like I'm going to be in Nashville on Thanksgiving and you can do it for a few days there so like I grabbed his kind of go-to band who are now buddies of mine they play on Sergio's first record Shooter's old band and some of these guys toured with Jamie Johnson they played with Will I mean they played with George all these guys they played with all these and they're the best are they old guys? I mean they were younger when they played with the older guys but they're around already and the best musicians I've ever heard and I went to the studio it's the first thing I've ever done where I walked out and it was like this is better than I thought like this is a fucking killer country album like what the fuck just happened because like I said it is a comedy record don't get me wrong but I really do have such a passion for country music no I listen to it it sounds like a country record and even some of the titles I mean it's just there's one called like I can't fuck you off my mind like that's just I can't drink you off my mind you just kind of you know fucking someone out of your heart I've said that before and so it's like I just love country music so much and I was like it wasn't really my plan when I went into it I was like I wanted to make the most legit comedy authentic country comedy record ever made but the character so when you go out and you're performing it and you go out with the hat and how does that feel great it's so much fucking fun because I always was envious of like you guys you can go do your thing whatever you want and I go play these shows and I got the cowboy and I'm like yeah fuck you and it's like this attitude all this stuff building up inside obviously this is this is the therapist part there's all this fuck you like fuck mainstream country fuck because I do get pissed when I hear this kind of mainstream country slop and I hear and also because of it's also weird for me too like I said having all the family back in Nashville I grew up with this Nashville was a fucking ghost town and now it's the hippest place now it's hipsterville and I go back there and these dumps are too great and it's kind of a new town it's really slick stuff and I'm like there are some people doing what I consider real country but there's not that much of it what if I can make a country record what if I can make a comedy record but I should make it legit country I mean do it with these guys who are playing on my and making my favorite country record so what's the plan then the plan is well this is really I mean my guess is that the fans that we're marketing this to it's like this is a whole different it's really going to Mojo's playing a lot on outlaw countries so it's really like we're doing it legit country we're doing country venues so you play a whole set you play guitar?

I play guitar and sing I mean that was the part I was self-conscious that was my vocals no it sounds good and then you get the argument too what is authentic country because I'm in the studio there and to them I'm this guy from Hollywood who came out and made a record I mean we're friends now but the first day or two it was like the studio guys this guy from a TV show comes out to make this record I'm like we're literally out that window is the high school my mom went to like you're from fucking Ohio like what the fuck these guys put on their cowboy hats actually there's one really good because I'm trying not to use my real name in the show but one guy wrote a really good article about kind of like why is this any less authentic than regular these guys are actually cowboys that you watch so that's kind of the joke to it too but if the goal was to make it and we want to do a comedy special but the goal was to make it as legitimate and real and good sounding if it works on both levels and right now I don't think it's really made for the comedy crowd because I don't know if they listen to this music my concern or not even concern is like who it's not really a novelty record you know it's a dirty country record which you know it has been done before at different points of time as novelty records by country performers but you're doing a whole other thing well that was the thing first of all the whole thing was it's like everything I do it's like when I go I was in the studio I was listening to the we're listening back to the master and I'm like this is so fucking catchy and plus it's so funny it's for everybody then of course it was the same thing when I did my show I was like this is for everyone I did it out of pure passion I mean I literally paid for the record like I own the master this label's putting up I own the master I could put a stop to it right now which the government may make me do yeah it's racy stuff but I was like this is something I want to do and I'm going to do it and it's going to sell a million copies first of all nobody sells I did a billboard interview in character and I promised in the interview as Wheeler Walker Jr. that my video was going to get more views than Adele we lost that by about a hundred million but you know that kind of pressure you did a music video though? yeah we've done two now I'm just more curious I just can't wait to get the album out because I just want to see people's I want to see people's reaction but I also want I'm hoping there will be some sort of reaction is it released already? February 12th oh yeah so my main goal the only thing I care about is and I've heard it a couple times and I don't give a fuck hearing about it but it's like oh it's some fucking dude from Jersey coming down making fun of a southerners just because you don't know it's so weird because you've had it both ways it's weird being a I think a Jew in a way and being in culture a certain way just like the kind of flack you got at Tulane now the southerners you're afraid they're going to put that on you but you're not from Jersey exactly well I'm just saying they don't know they used to think it's some guy in a costume some Hollywood dude but in no way it's not making fun of the southerners it's really not a passion for country music I just love this foreign music that's going away and it's so weird I mean it's like you know like Sergio's still doing it and Jason and those guys but it's really I mean Merle's left Willie's left there's not Billy Joe's still around there's not much of those guys around and I wanted to do a record like I said as a musician my whole life you're a musician it's like what if I could do and then you get the excuse of saying oh it's just kind of right but you know and also like there's something about the nature of a stage persona and a character and a performing outfit I mean I guess the real difference is is that you know this music may not be far from your heart but the character itself like there was a time where those type of guys like even Jerry Jeff or Waylon at certain points this certain kind of like borderline outlaw character that you know they were earnest and they were really that guy they lived that life so I think the only real mockery would be in that you created this character to honor those guys not necessarily to make fun of them but you're not that guy exactly but also I mean they were they weren't going around shooting no no no but you know what I mean I know what you're saying but what sold that and this doesn't look like this character is essentially this is sort of like a newer version but you know it's not Chris Waylon and Willie and you know yeah it's kind of sounding a little I was listening to so much George Jones at the time that I was like I'm ripping off George Jones that's good that's a real clean production but when you try to rip off someone who's that out of reach it kind of comes off as original because you can't the interesting thing about George Jones is he was even more fucked up than his character like you know he was sort of like a mainstream country guy who didn't wear a cowboy hat wore suit and what not but he was fucking crazy drunk man a genius how many bitches did he drive off a tractor the tractor store was great a bunch yeah but you know it's funny because I think the thing that makes it really different is that you're not seeking to make fun of the form you're actually seeking to embrace it in the way that you are capable of doing it well a couple of people who I won't name in Nashville are just like listen you've got to like you've got to go for it like Nashville becomes so shitty you're the guy you're going to go out there and talk about and you're going to you know you're going to wipe these people off the map but fuck you bitch I'm getting played on you know K-90 or whatever it'd be great if one could break through it's so political though a couple of stations that when they bleep it there's nothing left well that might have been a little short sighted on your part well I wasn't thinking I'm an outlaw I was at the time I'm just thinking I'm thinking the best but it was funny too because I was down there and I was again listening to playback and I'm looking at the musicians and I'm like isn't it a bummer that if I just made clean versions of this they're so catchy they get played on the radio and they all look at me at the same time and they're like have you fucking heard country radio recently it's fucking Milli Vanilli with no it's almost like Def Leppard Def Leppard's a good example where it's just like oh he's got one arm we'll just feel figured well it's just mainstream kind of rock riffs well I heard this from the 80s and again it's hip hop kind of some of the country producers I know actually had some interesting conversations with them just keep they're both things like Mutt Lang were you talking about Mutt Lang I've not spoken about Mutt Lang yet but these guys are just like they're really good producers in Nashville they still know all the Bowie and they know all the musicians and they're like and they've also had rock guys go down there and use their musicians for years Dylan did it and that was his best records was those but they're just like these electrons their whole thing is like these sounds that the new country guys are using are 20 years old like there's new stuff out there it's not like they're not mixing LCD sound system with country they're mixing like fucking Milli Vanilla and it just sounds like fucking garbage and there's really no place to hear this type of music anymore well thank god you're championing it then yeah that's what I'm here for and you're okay you're making a living making a living we'll see got a woman don't have a woman that's kind of the main issue if you were to talk to my parents when's that going to happen once I get my career in order so I'm probably 65 sure that sounds about right medicine no medicine am I on medicine do you want to do another hour I don't know if we have a bad time I'm properly medicated I'm properly it's all prescribed I got a new thing this company sent it to your house I don't have to go to writing anymore oh really oh good you on for the anxiety and the OCD anxiety and OCD anxiety is really the main issue me too what do you take I take Klonopin when needed oh see I can't do that why because I'm a fucking drug addict there's no reason not to take Klonopin well I find it it doesn't I mean that evolved my maladies I was talking about I really did get lucky because I know a lot of friends have gone on this I just don't have that the addiction thing so when you take Klonopin what's it good for six hours or so yeah I'm really sensitive to it so it lasts actually a little longer for me but I don't you know like we played that we opened up for David Allen Co this is an example a month ago and I had a bunch of friends and a national family let's go out and party drink all night haven't drank since didn't drink I'm just lucky don't be careful with Klonopin and the drinking yeah I don't mix them but I mean I'm with that I was like I've got to have my Klonopin the day before I plan my drinking but I just realized now I haven't had a drink Klonopin and booze that's an instant blackout recipe well one of my buddies he was on at least that it's funny to us that Fogarty concert he lost it but I don't know why it just came to my head I mean this was kind of a no brainer joke but it always makes me laugh and he was fucked up and Fogarty brought his son out to play guitar and I remember and he goes fortunate son and he's a go to joke but it made me laugh so now alright well let's figure this out so you own the rights of these songs and this is your record so theoretically which is something we don't get to do on the show very often because of labels and what not we can play a song I think you can play whatever the fuck you want we can play it on the show I own the publishing I own the yeah which one should we play if we're going to give people a taste of this thing you want a ballad you want a I want the one that is the most heartfelt for you Ben or should I call you Wheeler the most heartfelt one everyone says is fuck you bitch and that's got a real nice country production sound to it you want to play the hit yeah let's play the hit hit in quotes fuck you bitch play fuck you bitch alright well thanks for talking Ben thanks for having me Ben been blessed you say we're done the fact of your stuff it's really over said you've had enough there's one thing I'd like to say before you leave fuck you bitch You broke my heart, fuck your friend, tearing us apart, fuck your dog, hope he never comes home, fuck you bitch, hope you wind up alone.

Now you're gone, and I'm by myself, jerking off, pictures on the cell, but before I swipe onto your face, I just ain't think. Fuck you, bitch, you broke my heart, fuck your friend, tearing us apart, fuck your dog, hope he never comes home, fuck you bitch, hope you wind up alone. Word is out, found someone new, well I hope he does it for you, but it's not, you call me up, darling baby. Fuck you, bitch, you broke my heart, fuck your friend, tearing us apart, fuck your dog, hope he never comes home, fuck you bitch, hope you wind up alone.

Fuck you, bitch, hope you wind up alone. All right, so that's our show, I guess there's really no reason for me to play, we just had a song. I hope you enjoyed that, I enjoyed it, I like talking to Ben. Go buy that Wheeler Walker Jr.

record, man, it's the hottest thing in country music right now. The debut album, Redneck Shit, comes out tomorrow, February 12th. Okay, so now you know that. So yeah, go to WTFBot.com for all you WTFBoties, get on the mailing list, pick up a poster if you want it, do what you gotta do.

Comment through Facebook, check my schedule, I do have a few gigs coming up in April, and um, okay. I haven't done one of these without music in a while. Boomer lives! Boomer lives!