All right, let's do this. How are you what the fuckers? What the fuck buddies? What the fucking ears?
What the fucking delics? What's happening? I am Mark Marin. This is my show WTF.
Thank you for joining me. Welcome welcome. I'm out my garage sweating after a long day shooting Marin my TV show that will be on IFC in May This is the fourth season spent today working with Joey Diaz just me in the doctor Joey Diaz exciting It's it's been very fun. I've heard I know that all three seasons of the Marin show are on Netflix But in other mean news I believe that my special my epic special more later will be on Amazon Prime and perhaps Hulu a beginning in March March 3rdish That's my understanding What about today?
What about today's show? What is happening today? Well today? I talked to Herb Alpert Herb Alpert from Herb Alpert and the Tijuana Brass and an A&M Records I don't know where you grew up or what your parents were like or how old you are necessarily but My my parents had Herb Alpert and the Tijuana Brass taste of honey album I just looked at the cover and I'm like who the hell's that dude?
That dude's got something going on and then of course There's the famous whipped cream and other delights cover that everybody is familiar with but you may not know his music but his career as a creator of a label and and a producer is vast he's a major force in modern American music and he was available Yeah, he came up in conversation. I'm like sure I'll talk to her of Alpert I mean that guy's that guy's one of the big guys. I like talking to the big guys with stories So that's happening today also the Duplace brothers mark and the J Duplace are gonna come in and talk to me for a while And they are a very talented and charismatic duo doing a lot of stuff. They have a little empire a little filmmaking empire Those Duplace's film and TV hard to not resent them, but they're such likable guys.
Well, that just might be me. I will say this If you're avoiding or ignoring or dismissing or not making time For the Coen brothers latest movie hail Caesar You're out your fucking mind you're misled you've prejudged based on garbage and I look I don't know them I don't you know, they've never wanted to come on my show. They don't I know There this is not a paid promotion, but I'm an incredibly big fan of the Coen brothers as are most people who like good film These guys really are probably if not the best American filmmakers that we have in the top five or four And I've been with them since the beginning and I've been through some of their more difficult movies But the one thing you know about the Coen's is that you're probably gonna have to see it again Maybe two or three times. I've been you know, I've seen most of them I'm blood simple I remember when that came out I was like what and then raising Arizona that was crossing Barton think Barton think one of the greatest movies ever made and Oddly this new film hell Caesar sort of picks up where Barton think left off in a way like you can draw a comparison To that, but this movie hell Caesar is one of the tightest deep movies that the Coen's have ever made rich in in in levels of Interpretation, I mean it just is all there I can't even begin to tell you how upset I was and look everyone's entitled to their opinion But if you really love film and you are really engaged on anywhere in your past or in your heart or in your mind with a history of cinema There's no way you can't like this movie I guess I'm aggravated because I was led to believe that it was a mediocre Coen brothers film obviously nothing That they do is bad, but sometimes you have expectations and sometimes not unlike a Paul Thomas Anderson movie where you're like Well, maybe I miss something and you're talking to a guy when you're not talking to a guy you listen into a guy I'm not a big Lebowski guy.
I've watched that movie four or five times I want to feel what the cult of big Wubowski feels but I'm not that guy for me Fargo is genius raising Arizona genius I mean, I like the Hudsucker proxy. I loved Miller's Crossing Barton thing for me is one of the best old brother where art thou I loved it man who wasn't there. I even liked no country for old men. I fucking saw that six times I'm gonna see it again right now I might even turn it on while I'm talking to you burn after reading didn't love it But that was a minor issue with Malkovich wasn't the Coen's fault serious man one of my favorite movies ever I would have to say a serious man no country for old men Barton think really in Fargo in that order, but hell Caesar This is the what's the word apotheosis is that the word?
This is the apotheosis. I hope it's a word of everything the Coen's have done and people were dismissing it as like being fragmented or a mishmosh Are you out of your fucking mind? I mean I went in there knowing that a lot, you know I put it I asked on Twitter my resource for the the general opinion and it was very it was divided But a lot of people were like it's a mishmosh. It's fragmented.
It's just a series of cameos It's a it's a story's not there and it's like are you out of your fucking mind? So I went in there kind of nervous but excited to see a Coen's brother movie I was excited to see a Coen brothers movie and I watch that movie and I sat there for two hours and right away I was like oh no, this is fucking gene. This is fucking genius This is fucking good and that is it's going on. I'm like oh shit This might be the best one this might and that feeling of elation while watching a movie everything was there for me now again This is just my opinion But again if you have an appreciation for the history of movies and for what can be done with the film and and smart films I mean this is the fucking movie I don't know who the fuck doesn't give this movie a chance and look I get excited about things But it just seemed like to call it a mishmosh or fragmented or lacking story or just a series of cameos one dude even said like yeah There was these non sequitur dance sequences.
This was the Coen's Celebrating movies. I mean there are bits and pieces first you got Josh Brolin this beautifully working-class flawed character Who is a studio overseer a fixer but more of a lot manager and also a troubleshooter But he's Catholic and he's you know things way heavy on him and he is a morally not challenged guy But he's a thoughtful guy he's a man of faith and throughout the movie You know there's an ongoing struggle with quitting smoking but then there becomes there's this big sort of moral struggle That actually happens in the midst of him producing a film about Jesus Christ and also having to manage You know several problems with actors and shifting an actor who was primarily a western a cowboy actor Who wasn't used to talking into into a different type of picture then you have this side story where these uh these communist writers Kidnap George Clooney and where does that go and it was one of the best depictions of why and how the writers in Hollywood became Attracted to uh the communism to the ideas of communism It was really about you know payment and about work and about the nature of capitalism And in the middle of all this you have Josh Brolin's character Who was just you know balancing all of this and trying to to do the right thing by himself for himself and for the for the studio and for movies Which it as as you watch the film he believes deeply in he's like the Jesus figure of this film And if you move with him through these stories and through the primary story, which is really about you know whether or not he makes a decision and You know there's engagements with the priests there's confessionals. There's a meeting with the devil You may not be able to identify the devil right away, but he's definitely the devil There's a you know when the three primary working forces in the film are our Catholicism and a man's moral struggle and a man's burden of carrying the weight of the studio and the personalities within it and the future of the movies themselves and yet What does he choose to do in the end? What do movies really mean?
What do they really give to people? It's a movie about about the levels of work and about creativity and about making something and about you know Certain elements of class and also about the insipid disposition of some actors, but the genius disposition of others But the greatest thing about the film is that it celebrates the history of movies It shows you all the different jobs on a sound stage It shows you a sound stage in general It shows you a fully executed and choreographed musical sequence and it shows you fully executed and choreographed aquatic ballet sequence It shows you a fully executed and choreographed old-timey Western stunt writer sequence And it shows you the making of almost like a Noel Coward ish film And the reason they spend time on this is that when you get as much distance as we have from those types of films when they were made And if you study film or you saw those films if you were fortunate enough to see those types of movies in a movie theater and really Understand the elation and excitement they can create you know even like even the Western they did these things perfectly There was a slight tinge of satire to them But they honored the genre and they showed you why they were amazing they humanized the history of film by showing what went into making the film And then by showing the execution and the beauty of what those films were trying to do that was all going on throughout this story You know what do movies mean? What is the power of film and it was? Actually the the same movie studio that was in Barton think I believe it was capital pictures What I'm telling you is I'm still thinking about this film three days later because the levels of of interpretation and sort of speculation and the levels of emotional philosophical and Cinematic depth that is possible when you look at it I still can't wrap my brain around a lot of it But all I know is you got it all in there you got it all in there love hate good evil dedication commitment work trust and comedy and and some deep comedy But I one of the things that I read a lot was people basically saying like it wasn't the movie that I was led to believe I was gonna see from the trailer who gives a fuck grow up grow the fuck up It's a Cohen Brothers movie so what it was in a slapstick commie was really that funny How do you go into a Cohen Brothers movie?
How do you just take it in on a surface level? How do you not allow your mind in your heart? How do you not allow them to open up and engage with guys who are at the top of their game and completely in control of their craft and are deeply philosophical and intellectual and and and beautifully constructed cinematically and script wise How do you dismiss that? There's something about the culture today that you know maybe I'm an old man But for someone just to dismiss something like you know like hell cesar It's like no go reckon with it.
Genius is made it. I don't know about HBO vinyl Scorsese made a two-hour piece of film for a television project. It's Scorsese Who the fuck are you just be like me give it more than that Jesus? I?
Guess I like the movie. I guess that's what I'm saying. I would like to talk to the Cohen Brothers By the way if anyone knows them look folks mark and Jay Duplace the Duplace brothers the infamous Duplace brothers the now famous Duplace Brothers makers of film and television they have a new season of their show togetherness Which premieres this Sunday on HBO their animated show animals is currently airing on HBO I play a rat in that I believe so I now I'm gonna talk to him right here in the garage me and mark and Jay Duplace Quick things before we get started. Yeah, yeah Dry fruit a lot of dried fruit at lunch.
So are you saying that you're gonna gas? I'm gonna try not to try to hold But that's not what you're supposed to do in here It's like a threat it's like a less now it's a little bit of like now. It's sort of like a I would call it a power play Yeah, but okay, so it's a power play, but at some point that just means like two other guys go off You're the guy who farted yeah, all right, so the brothers do plus I mean it was it hard to take ten fucking minutes out of doing You know a dozen projects to come over here. I'm gonna start with the wrong attitude.
No, no Mark, we talked about it. We talked about your worth Your energy WTF we have now yeah, I'm your star meter I'm sorry What is the star meters that you can go do is that on my own DB pro? I'm DB you can check people star meter. We tell them tells you how hot they are goddamn.
Oh, now instant Mm-hmm now we got it now a number. I don't fucking know do you know what they make it green when you're on the rise But when you're not doing so well and the blue and the blue is coming off of you they put you red I think I think I got the oh five thousand four forty seven right between our predictions. That's great. What is that a great star meter?
I guess a lot higher for you. So that'll tell you something. Yeah, I guess a little lower, but that's okay I'm gaining the whole amount of fucking smart ass. Let's see where our star meters are Let's see where the smart ass do plus brothers are you guys checked like right before you got here We wouldn't have brought up a star meter.
I'd be like I'm checked. I know about actor producer writer mark do plus alright What's mark got him? Well, I don't know. It's not good.
Maybe if you fart maybe I guess I might get that up You fart right now. Why says numbers just go up 24 70. Yeah, that's a little on the lower side for me Wow, you might run over track that statement a little on the lower side for oh and you to 2,842 jang you know I was really this was sort of an ego boost for me. I feel pretty good about myself I just beat I I've almost doubled I'm two do plus brothers.
No, that's higher as well as worse. Oh, it is higher Oh, so I'm on I was like Jennifer Lawrence is like number three. Oh, so I'm not that good Then you guys are better than like I was all excited but your show is just starting to be here down this week Just by the way. I am yeah, you're down down down this week No, I mean what am I gonna do you guys are on television and you're in a global go go go winning things Are you on television?
Yeah, but not it's not real television. I was on your television show one time Yeah, how was the feedback on that remember when I came in and we shot a 17 this week by the way That's not bad. Yeah, we shot a scene in the bike garage 22 minutes. Yeah, you're in and out.
It was great My show does good on the Netflix a year later, but I'm happy. I'm okay with that star man It's like our movies that our whole career does good on the Netflix later on well That's where it's at but no it must do okay on the HBO do you get numbers on HBO for the togetherness on the HBO? They don't mean anything anymore. Yeah has been a benefit for our people like us I find yeah as long as you're gonna skate under the radar Yeah, if your shows are like well reviewed and yeah, generally like I think you get picked up on HBO But we're not bringing in massive numbers on togetherness.
I watched it and at certain points I found it upsetting well, I mean it was good, but I think there's reasonable depictions of the strains of I don't know it's what it is. It's what grownups look like now. Yeah, you know like there was a different time or grownups look different But you guys look like grownups some version of them. It was just really weird.
What do you 40 something? I am 39 Come on mark. What's you know, it's you're not gonna lose any points There's a motion emotionally. I'm like 46, but I'm honest 39 But there's not a lot of depiction honest depictions of people of your ilk in your age in your class that that that that that really kind of Relentless yeah, like there's some sad moments that the genius at the funny guy.
What's that guy's name? Steve's this is Steve's this is our high school Buddy. Yeah, I don't know where you found that guy before he's funny. He is funny He's a little bit that mofo and we went to high school with him and wait was he always an actor?
He's always been an actor however. He has not always been known and that was like part of our genesis of the creation What's always playing? He's playing his playing him in a way. He's playing as we're looking in the world Yeah, and you I'm sure this happens in the comedy world all the time But we got a guy pushing 40.
Yeah, who is a god? Yeah, I mean that guy was he always has been and has never lost it Yeah, so funny so dark so tragic and you see him sort of like is this gonna Gonna die with all of his magic inside of him. Oh, you know and you see this like black star dying And you're like you want to shine light on it So you've known in that long and thing and he got rough for him in real life. Oh, yeah Yeah, oh, yeah, because he seems to be pretty comfortable with the darkness.
Oh, yeah You can't manufacture what he would do very well in this room here. I'd love to have him So he's a genius Amanda Pete doing comedy great. She's hilarious. Yeah, I mean in season two She really gets to like stretch really we do this fun thing where like after a dump with all of our episodes We invite a group of people and we watch them all in a row to just check and see if we fuck anything up Yeah, anything up and in terms of where the characters are going where the characters are going what people wanted to see You know whatever you make eight episodes kind of in a microcosm You like let me see this in a row right?
It'll work and we laid them all out and and and it was kind of consistently shocking people walking on their own being like I haven't seen Amanda do anything like that before I've never seen her doing anything She always plays like she's always a little dangerous. She's a little dangerous in this too, but there's a humility to it Yeah, like there's a desperation to her character along with like she's hurting that guy. Yeah, she's hurting Steve and that hurts me Which is one of the reasons why the series was difficult. Yeah, like why she keep hurting that guy When he's just wet up But the pain all yeah, yeah, yeah, and then you're it But it's sort of funny because he can shoulder that yeah, and they do seem to love each other somehow Whereas the couple with you and Linsky that love seems strained whereas the unrequited love of the two clowns that seems like it's it's undeniable It's pretty yeah, yeah, some pure beauty in that we had a lot of questioning too It was like how how is how is this gonna work like how people believe that a guy like Steve yeah a girl like Pete would be even Interested in hanging with a guy like Steve and because he'd know and knew who he was or whatever And then he showed up and started doing his thing and then started to flip it was like Why is he even hanging around this guy right this guy's pure magic and then later on we brought I mean This has been an incredible thing for marking me is like I mean Amanda walk into the room and we weren't sure You know we've all seen been watching her forever Yeah, and she started dragging him around the room and beating a crap out of him in the audition like in the first 30 seconds And they had this electric chemistry.
She's a bully She was a boy But then we start we were hanging out with him we're doing scenes like every week we hang out with her that girl has more going on Like she's got you was saying this the other day like she's uh, she's you know raised up inside in New York She's like classically educated Columbia extremely intelligent gorgeous. She has the sense of humor of a 12-year-old boy It's just her and fart noises all day long from video village. So you can see her later is that way you eat the fruit? That's why I built it all up for her We are gonna start birthday party.
Yeah, oh are you okay? I want you to announce that they're right when you get there I'd be party. I'd put it one p.m. Makes for a great party favorites of their I drive fruits good man Yeah, are you concerned with your bowels?
Do you know somebody gifted me with dried fruit? And I'm an eating maniac and so I just in the office working and there was dried fruit in front of me And I just ate about like 18 dried pears. Oh, then so yeah, yeah We'll just say what I'm doing. But you're not a guy that that's hung up on that yet.
Like can I got I got to eat some fiber? No, no, but I do think J and I think about energy a lot and we think about like how can we have more energy to do what we want to do? Should we be working out more J and I are really have this discussion ridiculous emotional eaters. Yeah, there's no stop button But you grew up with it, right?
We grew up in New Orleans. Yeah, just eating. Yeah eating and loving food I mean, it's insane that we're thin. Yeah, it is kind of it's insane and not likeable really But the guys complaining about how much you eat but they're not heavy But like we work our asses off we work out all the time.
We do pretty much so we can keep eating so we can keep you But it's it's weird like people see us on set and when we're big stress eaters big emotional eaters It's a kind of when you're on set and shit when you're on the office even it's impossible not to eat Oh, and especially when you have your own show like this is one thing like we've been loving this TV thing But when you like carry a hold when you're like the daddy of a whole universe, right? It's not that fun, right? It's it's hard as shit. It's fulfilling.
Yeah, but people like always a fun You guys are just looking to do it back. No, we're killing ourselves every second. Let's clear this up We never smoke weed on set. We know everybody thinks we smoke weed on set.
No, we really don't smoke weed Actually, it's really when it comes down to that we don't smoke weed because they smoke a little weed occasionally We we every time we smoke we we're like we should smoke more weed and you don't and we don't because we're like ruthlessly efficient With ourselves it wouldn't be good if the brothers were like, oh dude, you didn't do it. No, yeah, exactly Yeah, we're all It's true, but how does it work? So you guys write the show together and then how does it work on set because I know you both wear all the hats producer director occasionally But you're in the actor in this but you are getting a lot of attention for your acting and transparent I thought you're very good by the way. Thanks very much I don't need to tell him he knows like I get tired of selling mark all good in everything Yeah, because he's in everything every there's a thing on now right now.
What's up? Me you know, it's about me. You know, it's about you. Do you feel left out was I think we should talk about what do you do when you have two brothers in a room?
Yeah, and you want to compliment them both and you have to be careful with who you're complimenting Anxiety about that. Do you have any feelings about that? I'd like to see I'm trying to get you to turn By the way, everybody needs to know that Jay and I are on the other side of the table from Mark Marin here And the most apparent object is there's an enormous knife right between me. Maybe call it a buoy Is this thing so tonight?
I just have stuff where it's always interesting to me to see what people choose the edge of a knife a hammer Yeah, it looks like a monster of help in this way. What do you call that? I'll be quiet Oh, I know that is what do you call those hand-exercises one of these things that you clamp exercise a hand squeeze or a Matthew Modin Uses and Vision Quest to work out Right, but what how does the work breakdown? What do you do?
Well, it's it's different on every project the real honest truth of it is that Jay and I are we drivers was really really hard. We're both anxious and we're both a little depressive and sad people and so we get beat up And so yeah, so we show up on set yeah, and we kind of look at it I mean look at our just look at our eyes. Yeah, I know you I know you seem like a pretty sweet guy You seem to like he seems to be Jay seems a little more Comfortable with his vulnerability and sensitivity you seem to put a lot of energy into keeping the party going I do a ton of energy towards that Yeah, sure I called it incredible amount. I'm so tired.
I'm not a lot tired with Mark does a lot of drive-in and I do a lot of quality control. Okay. I do a lot of watching Yeah, but honestly we both this is the interesting part. Yeah, probably this is it honestly if we're totally just cutting to what's going on I don't know what's got to it cut to it When you when you work together the way that we have for our whole lives not just 20 years of movies and music I mean like 30 years of just like you know making the job of being brother the job of being brothers and making shit together What happens is is you become two parts of the same being yeah, and that is awesome for making art It's awesome for like making a TV show being a director like directing is too much Right, right?
Yeah, like all directors get crazy by the time they're 50 because it's too much Yeah, so we share a lot of those things But the problem that happens is that we become the same person you can go the same party and like the way we talk about it Like one person's like doing the the duplast persona. Yeah, he's doing that. Okay. I'm just laid back over here for a little bit You know what I mean because like we were curated in the same household like we and mark is a little more type I'm a little more typey, but on any given day or if I go by myself I get more type a and more probably gets we're not even twins and we're not worse than twins Yeah, it's a weird thing and we talk about that a lot Which is like your older a J's older by three and a half years and so I just look older because I drive all the time Right, so when you got the camera going you're both sort of like mark come here J come here You know who's usually you know watching the takes well?
He's acting so you got to be mostly at the exact thing I mostly watch but you know honestly we have all these credits on IMDb pro, but we just we're just brothers who make stuff That is truly how it is so everybody wears all the hats We wear all the hats and it's really it's not like our tourists like the common brothers We try to be the common brothers We want it to be them and we failed miss how'd you why'd you fail because they're they created a singular form of making telling stories And you can't beat the common brothers at being the common brothers when we're different But to what we this was like us in like film school in the early 2000s But you guys did a lot of stuff together so your your stock cuz the common brothers are very you guys are driven But they're very meticulous. I imagine that you have to have such clear vision from what we understand like they see the whole movie in their head For the show up on set or like 95% and then they just they just walk the movie through Whereas all of our filmmaking happens right on the set very organic in the moment like a therapy session right we're improvising We're trying things we're getting upset nervous cuz it's not working. We have a breakthrough. Holy shit This is so exciting get the camera.
You know it's very organic I guess it's like trying to capture energetic light like the best version of what this scene can be in this moment with the people We got and where we're at. Yeah, we know what the scene's supposed to be so let's just like see what and that's become your style I mean you're known for now, but with the TV you got to write scripts right we write sure everything this is good for everything We just we just veer off of the script a lot to get stuff that's more organic But to your question of like who's doing what role it's it's actually harder for us to pinpoint that because on any given day Someone can be more excited more ready to drive a little more anxious a little more depressed And then you know I remember the front of season two I was really tired and down and like I don't know if I'm gonna make it through this thing and Jake came up and started driving And it was like so great that I had somebody like helping to carry me through it And then jay got bronchitis and started tanking and I was like okay here I'm gonna start driving now And that's just this weird sign cosign wave of like and the end of people on set No, this is way work They kind of feel it out from us, you know, and also, you know We have relationships with actors we have different relationships with actors Sometimes we find that one of us it's easier for us to talk to somebody and or just understand what they're going through or about certain kinds of things To but you're in a lot of the scenes though, too Yes, so on a big emotional scene like In our fourth episode of the first season where we have that, you know, sex in the hotel. Yeah, really rough Jay is very clearly in the creative driver's seat there We have conversations after the takes we see make sure it's on the rails But I'm kind of like dude, I'm out you gotta be in the thing tell me to do can't be all like that on the set Yeah, you gotta be in the scene. You can't be like that on the camera Especially the way we shoot he has to be able to just be let let anything happen right?
Basically now when when you say you get all down with what the fuck was going on we tired? Yeah, I'm also like logical mentalist it from stuff Yeah, for us is I would say a combination of just being kind of at our core People who are desperately driven to and compelled to do this stuff that we do and that we can't quite figure out that might take a long Time but we are driven to come up this mountain. Yeah, keep making stuff And the idea is coming we do it and then there's just another part of us that is like I would say slightly bipolar Yeah, you know, I personally take depression medication to keep me even keel from crashing work Oh ten years ten years one which one I take select so yeah, which is like a lower dose of it Right, and it's like a compression system for me that like huh it keeps me from going nuts And it also is a little net under my ass when I'm like I drive myself too hard I fuck myself up. Yeah, I fall down and it kind of catches me.
That's nice that it works for you Yeah, and some people it does and people it doesn't this has been something that works for me It sounds like it's been working for the long haul big time and and Jay and I both have just a little bit of that I don't know if it's just an artist thing or just in our chemistry We just like oh, yeah, we feel deeply in the world and we just get we tank a lot of things Yeah, I don't let myself go. I don't seem to go down by getting anxious. Yeah, I'm overwhelmed Yeah, I got just like I don't have the I don't have the depression because I don't let it my I grew up with a depressive Yeah, so there's some part of me that's hyperbigilant about like I'm not gonna be I'm not doing that Yeah, well, there's gonna slip out sideways in an anxious way There's a whole theory that like anxiety and depression are the same thing right that we that basically, you know Type a people don't really get depressed because when that thing that feeling that comes to you actually turns you towards anxiety because you fight against it Right, but then like if you get too anxious then you know phase two is the like the paralysis. Yes.
Yeah, yeah Yeah, and it's like for me that's that reveals itself is exhaustion. Yeah more than darkness. Yeah, thank God That's a nice brand. So okay, so that's I'm gonna look forward to let's talk about the other projects You were great on transparent as I said, I'd not seen you act perhaps you were in some of your old movie I don't see them all this is my first acting job.
Really? Yeah, it was great. You played a Jew. Yeah, and you know, it's sort of a challenging disturbing character He's very different from me.
He's you guys. We should be a total dick. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. I mean he has He has more sex in the first two episodes and you've had in your entire life. It's good for you. How that feels like more people.
Yeah Yes, yeah, it's really different and fun and I it's weird to Be 40 and like find a whole new thing that I like to do which doesn't seem that difference very adjacent to writing But it is nothing like you at the you at the the the senior here take up all this screen time The baby the baby gets the baby gets the baby gets right everyone's like well Why don't you do this sooner? It's like I and the answer I swear to God is since we had the double Panasonic VHS camera Yeah, I I was really in 1980. Yeah, I was I was oh three years older I could I know how to operate it. Yeah, and so I mark what act and I would shoot and literally up until togetherness I've been shooting physically and mark has been acting so it although our friends have encouraged me to try it Yeah, it's just never been I'm literally behind the camera Now did you just go with your gut on it or did you talk to mark about it or did you like it's weird because I talked to actors I'm especially people like me who come about it through guy, you know I didn't train to be an actor.
Yeah, you neither. No, no No, no, we're I think all three of us share a thing where like we were maybe like writers makers of stuff that accidentally fell into it It's interesting because with togetherness you make some pretty solid choices to temper some of your shit into a real character You structured that thing, you know, and I've seen you do it in lens movies I've seen you do it in some of your movies like you know how to like for me I'll just you know what do I have to turn down, you know, like which part of me? Yeah, I turn down but like sometimes you kind of becomes a different character. Yeah now what and that's just a natural ability So what did you sort of employ?
Well the guy's so different from me and the stuff he says and the stuff he does is so different I just went straight in and just full blast I got lucky because my roommate in college was a guy named Lee Cohen who's a Jew from from Chicago Yeah, I spent four years with him. He looks exactly like me Everyone thought we were twins in college. He is a music manager. He managed dandy Warhols Am I saying too much about Lee Cohen right now?
You are. No, I am totally hey Lee Cohen. What's up? Dude, just know we love you.
We've always loved you. I'm actually seeing him tomorrow And so I kind of channeled him like he has the stuff. Yeah, I did tell him that I even talked to him about it before Yeah, I talked to him about it before I was like dude I'm gonna pull you into this thing Yeah, I'm doing this whole new thing and it's like deep east side Jew thing And I got to go for it and you know, I just want to kind of have your blessing, you know, and he was like yeah Yeah, absolutely go for it. Wow.
So we helped you out. Yeah, I had the dandy Warhols for a while And any Warhols, thank you Lee Cohen, Danny Warhols But but you guys have a lot going on and togetherness is February 21st and then you're working on the third season and you have a movie and development for Netflix a couple of movies are making for Netflix I'm available for a small part in any of those films. Excellent. You got something for me great talking to you guys love wait What was your star meter again?
Yeah, we got some we got some small few I'm like get my star meter up to yours if you get your star meter up to 26 hundred come talk to us. All right, thanks guys Workers their workers. I like to do plug brothers at the first time I met you and I I liked him I was glad that he his brother let him talk I don't even know where to start with her about hurt in terms of you know, if you don't know who he is This this guy is a legend a fucking legend in the in the music is I mean you may have know about you know her about working the Tijuana brass You may have heard of of a taste of honey and all you know, he said so many fucking hits man I mean he's had so many hits and it like forever for decades and then he um and then he like started you know A&M records and you know, he's sort of responsible for the carpenters and you know and all the way up You know through like you know Janet Jackson lies. I mean It's just I'm sort of fascinated with the with the with the music business and And you know, I always knew that he was a big deal I knew what he was the a in a and m records and I I jumped at the opportunity to talk to him So I hope you enjoy this conversation herb Alberts record come fly with me is available now still out there playing the music too With his wife.
It's amazing. I Remember you because my parents had a copy of Whipped cream another delight. No, okay. No, it's one.
You got your hand up the girl on your arm what now my love Yeah, yeah, okay, so I just remember that cover. I remember you know, I was young. I was eight or nine I'm like who the fuck is that guy? Yeah, that's me.
That was me. I'm still here and you're 80. I think so. Let me check my ID Yeah, maybe I'm excited man.
I yeah because I'm sort of fascinated with the music business and when I look at your career It's a it's astounding like you're you're one of those guys that I don't know if you could really quantify who could have had a bigger Impact on music both in recording and in creating a label that was powerful, man. Yeah, well, it was a different time I'm we couldn't do it today. I mean we try to start if we try to start a mm in today's music industry I don't think it would happen Well walk me through it because I am a little like I love old stories about how the music business used to be because it used to be a pretty intimate Business, where'd you grow up? Well, I grew up in LA.
I'm a native of Los Angeles really yeah, but the music business in 62 That's when we started an M was totally there man. They were little labels operating out of their trunks of their car You know, you just had to deliver the single right was that you could come to a good? You know some radio stations with a master and if the program director happened to like it He'd either put it on immediately or they put it in the meeting and then you'd get you know immediate feedback Which obviously doesn't happen anymore in sales and in making hits if they played it on the radio Yeah, if people don't get it. I mean you can't yeah, just about that.
Yeah, so how so you grew up in what part of LA? Well, I was born in East LA and then grew up in you know around Fairfax and Beverly are you folks from around here? I mean today were they were originally from no my dad was from Russia my dad was Real hero, you know when he was 16 years old he took a boat from Russia alone not speaking the language You know he just spoke yetish at the time and landed in Ellis Island and little by little he worked his way to You know through the States I think he was working in Chicago for a while in Los Angeles That's where he met my mom those are amazing stories is my family's Eastern European Jewish and like I they came in from Russia through Ellis Island But I did you have you gone back to how far with the roots have you gone? Did you ever get fascinated with like where he came from in Russia?
Well, I didn't have been to Russia But you know I was in Ellis Island you can feel you can feel that vibe man You can feel all the things that happened through there. Yeah pretty pretty amazing Did it was it the same name or did they change the name? No, it's the same name. No, okay Alpert right so that made it all the way from Russia made it from Russia But you know he was really an unusual guy he little by little brought his entire family over from from Russia brothers sisters His brothers and sisters right and what do you do he was a tailor?
Yeah? Yeah, it was a really good tailor to yeah Yeah, he had like a flair for design and he still we used to walk down You know Wilshire Boulevard and get on his little sketchpad when he sees something he'd like he'd sketch it and then try to you know Improve on it or do his own little take on it. Did he have a shop? He had a he was manufacturing ladies coast and suits in downtown Los Angeles.
Oh really? Yeah, were they were originals or knock-off? They were originals. Oh, wow originals um knock-offs.
Well, that's that's you know it's possible I don't know that was just that's the Schmata business right? Yeah, you know you're a Schmata business. Yeah, yeah, sure man and your mom would had to she do stuff through well My mom played violin for a while, but she was um She was a great spirit, you know, she really was encouraging for me, you know every time I you know I started playing trumpet when I was eight so when I was laks and I didn't practice, you know She'd always get on me for that and yeah said you know You gotta you gotta keep it up and then I'd play and then neighbors would yell and then she'd open her window So shut up my kids practicing She was cool. So eight years old like what kind of music do you remember playing at eight?
Well, I could I couldn't play at all man, you know, I was lucky because there was this music appreciation class in my grammar school which obviously doesn't happen anymore and which should happen because I Think you know to rub elbows with some type of form of creativity at young age. I think really really you know Put the nice foundation, you know kids get to get to feel their own uniqueness Yeah, and hopefully they can feel the uniqueness and others and might be a whole different story and make sounds Yeah, it's like if you like my mom was very supportive of guitar playing, you know, so like it changed my life Oh, yeah, so anyways, I there was this in this class. There was a table filled with various instruments I happen to pick up the trumpet try to make a sound out of it couldn't do that I thought you just blow hot air into the coffee So I finally realized I could make the sound and little by little you know this horn was speaking for me because I was super shy Yeah, I just loved the that the idea that this horn was speaking from him You know it's some attention blast out I got attention and got the chicks and the whole thing So many of people I talked to in the arts like he asked him why they got into it and they're like chicks Yeah, well, I wasn't my motivation at front, but it certainly didn't hurt what movie what music was speaking to you once you start to get the hang of it Well, I was you know, I was classically trained I had a teacher actually he was from Russia as well and I studied with him for about 12 years and it was mainly you know playing Beethoven Bach and you know, yeah, and he played in orchestra a bit I played in junior symphony orchestras and then at one point I was playing in this Orchestra and I we were playing pictures on an exhibition by Mazorski Revealed of the arrangements and I was so enamored by the sound of the orchestra I was really knocked out by so I was leaning forward listening to everybody It was like the stereotype effect and I forgot to come in I forgot to come in my part So I realized at that point there, you know, I'm not sure I want to make this type of music Yeah, and then I started listening to Louis Armstrong and Miles and you know the jazzers and that that looked like fun They might these guys were closing their eyes and just playing whatever was coming out and to me That's what I wanted to try to do but but from that early education You learn how to read music you learn how to arrange music you learn how to write it Well, I learned how to read it for sure Ranging as a whole other anemone. You got to really study that it's not like you can play the trumpet and you can be an arranger Yes, it's you know, I when I got to the keyboard I started playing piano and I realized you know That's that's the arrangers need to have that because then you can you can see the harmonies if you're playing just a single Don't instrument like a trumpet trombone, right?
That's just one sound that's coming out. So you can't really play out the other parts Yeah, you can't and you know when you put your hand on you know ten different notes. Yeah, you know, it's a whole different feeling You pretty good at piano now? No, I'm good at just fooling around with chords and moving around But that's you know the genesis of the Tijuana brass was I was fooling around with this song that a friend of mine wrote called twinkle Star which was a beautiful melody, but it was really corny man He had he gave me a demo of it and it sounded like a music box That type of thing yeah, yeah, and so I was ranging it and at that time I was going to bullfights in the springtime Down to you want to in Tijuana?
There was you know a major? Place you know the greatest amount of doors from around the world so I got inspired by that i never heard mariachi music But I heard this band that was in the stands at Tijuana and they were like announcing the different events, right? So I tried to translate that into a record. You know what I heardadada da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da da data Mechanicalia dot does always like that Right and then this one guy came out of his name car stick it down he had come on a wide horse the reins were around his waist he would never touch the reins with his hands and he was just giving the horn The horse directions by the movement of his body and he was it was exciting man Yeah, and any you know do whatever he had to do book the band he was ended to lower the Bull's head of whatever they d so do for that and he put the horse away and he walked across the arena and he wouldn't look at the bull just be looking at him you know with a smoky of his nose and he would be an honor him he'd be like within three feet of him yeah looking the other way and the crowd would go crazy and you know I was drinking wine at the time and both of them and it was a you know I tried to translate that whole feeling into a song and you did and that changed the face of certainly instrumental in popular music I mean you're the Tijuana brass did well I can't say it changed the face of it but it was certainly a moment and when the lonely bull happened it just like took off like a rocket I think it was a tone I think it was also like an international flavor that people hadn't really heard and it's so compelling it was a good song and you know the arrangement was good and it worked and you know it's like when that door opens man it really opens because you know three days into the release of that record we were getting calls from distributors from all over the world international it yeah and wanted to have us you know to give them the distribution rights which my partner Jerry Moss you know doled it out and the lonely bull was happening I got a call from our distributor in Washington DC he says man you guys got a smash that aquapocal 1922 is happening I said brother you're on the wrong side so you know when it starts happening man when the door opens for you it swings the the B-side did well too yeah well we eventually have him turn it over but yeah the B-side was happening too well the language you're speaking around music like what was in between like learning how to play and and what were your first sort of forays in the music business well I played you know dances parties in high school we had a little group of trio and mostly standards yeah mostly standards and you know little little flashy stuff triple-ton because of the classical background I could do some fancy things on the horn not very creative but it was like fancy right impressive yeah it was impressive yeah it was impressive enough because there was this was in the 50s and in LA there was this show called high talent battle and they were pitting high school bands against one another and we entered we won we know like first six weeks in a row we were seen on television and because of that you know we started playing parties and weddings and working as a musician yeah yeah yeah that's right and I got my my card my union card at 16 and off we had to I didn't I didn't I wasn't sure I was gonna be a professional musician what was the other option I didn't have another option you know so when do you start like writing songs because I know that there when I think about that time I mean we're talking about what the late 50s when you're in high school no early 50s I graduated high school in 1953 so like the music business like there were guys around writing the deal was he tried to write hip-hop songs right well in 53 I was I didn't write any songs at that I I was drafting the army after high school well I went to college for like about a year and a half I went to study in what I went to see I was studying music yeah and I wasn't into it I didn't feel it I wasn't the timing was off sure and I got drafted so when I was signing up or whatever I had to do I told him look at the only thing I know how to do is play the trumpet that's all I can do and I lied about I played with Count Basie I played with Luke Duke Ellington I mean I just a trumpet player man you know I'm a secretary don't give me a gun or whatever yeah anyways they sent me to band school in Fort Knox Kentucky for I think it was six weeks for like marching band kind of no it was a band school to just to organize musicians to do for the army what did you learn something there I learned that I wasn't as good as I thought it was a lot of good players there from all over the country so you know I had a good eye aha there uh-huh just about your skill set yeah you know I realized that if I was ever gonna be a professional I really had to hone in on a particular direction and did that did you play revelry and that kind of stuff no not at band school I did later I was sent to the Presidio San Francisco yeah I spent almost two years there you were stationed there I was stationed Presidio I was fabulous beautiful there oh it was gorgeous oh right there yeah so there were 12 trumpet players there and every 12 day you go to the federal cemetery and play taps uh-huh you know so that I had that and then you're in San Francisco which is sort of happening right I love San Francisco in that time in the like the mid-to-late 50s it must have been amazing yeah it was amazing and I think it still is amazing sure my wife doesn't like she's not crazy about it a lot of things it looks like a movie set well it's that beautiful in a way but what was going on there did you tap into the music scene oh yeah yeah I look coach they had a great the jazz club they're called the black hawk I see Miles and Dave Brubeck oh yeah let's see yeah Cal Jader uh-huh yeah all the great where they're where their comics working with those guys at that time well well did you see like Lenny or Jonathan well I thought we played with Lenny once you know yeah this is when the T-1 brass started we're moving up in in time now but we were playing at the crescendo in on Sunset Boulevard on my gene Gene Norman uh-huh and Lenny was playing upstairs and he did his thing and then we came on he was a knockout I mean this guy could have you laugh and rolling in there on the ground I mean he was that funny and I remember after we we played the set I went downstairs and Count Basie man was playing in the bottom section of this club and Lenny was up on the top of the piano man he was introducing Count Basie and he says you know why I like Basie and he says why why why why because he has big black balls and he jumps off the piano and runs up that was it yeah I think I was he was special yeah did you get to hang out with him at all no not at all but you know I talked to him a couple of times that was it was he had his peak then or coming out of speak no that was the height of his his thing so when you're seeing like Brubeck and Miles and all these cats like who like did you because you came a little after that scene like the bebop scene yeah and who were some of your role models in that you know in that era well Jet Baker well I love Jet Baker yeah Jet Baker you know I gave Jet Baker one of my trumpets actually I became friendly with him and you know he was a genius he's influenced on you though right he was an influence but there were a lot of influence yeah he was one of them because you know Jet didn't know music he didn't know a C chord from his left elbow he was just he was an instinctive musician he could play through a minefield of chord changes without you know knowing what he was doing right he was doing it yeah and strung out to well he was unfortunately he was his worst enemy yeah and I used to see him at the Hague with the Jerry Mulligan quartet and I fell in love with that sound and Jerry as well because they'd play a set and then Jerry would walk up to the microphone and say in this blurry eyes staring out he say shortly yeah I was in and then I became good friends with Jerry after a while because you know he recorded for a and along with Stan Geth and Chet did a record for us too but yeah I gave Chet a good old Martin committee trumpet that he loved to play and you know he pawned that thing two days later oh really it's hard to deal with that guys who were strung out I tell you and he was a sweet heart of a guy yeah very sensitive obviously but I just did not have a handle on himself yeah like our pepper to right like art art was that's tragic I mean art art was absolutely brilliant yeah and I was I had this idea I was gonna do this with him at and we had these acoustic chambers yeah on the lot and I was I wanted to put him in a chamber and let him just whale just play whatever wanted to play and that right he passed out passed on about two or three weeks before this might have happened oh really yeah he fought it too man like I mean that's that heroin just not yeah it's just just no good yeah and did you ever see who was it was a art peppers mentor or his guy Lester was it Lester Young is it well yeah well he was everyone's mentor that was the president the president that was the name that Billy Holiday gave him oh yeah the press yeah but yeah most taxpayers when you talk to him you know it goes from probably Coleman Hawkins to Lester Young and then it's the new guys you know Charlie Parker well Charlie while Charlie Parker was on his own planet man this guy was you know he was really unusually special and a hundred years from now you will still hear him and it's still unique he was did you see him never saw him oh yeah never saw him and in terms of trumpet like so Chet was sort of responsible for what they called the California sound yeah it was the cool school yeah but there were a lot of guys you know Shorty Rogers lived in LA was a really a band called Shorty Rogers and the Giants and that part pepper played in that band Shelley Mann was his drummer yeah a lot of great musicians with him and and Shorty was a really good trumpet player too did you like to play that beep up I mean like when you're young no I didn't know how to do it you know you did the transition from from classical music to jazz it's pretty dramatic it's not that easy right you know in classical music you're you're working all these scales diatonic scales and it's a different you know jazz is a particular language right unless you can play into that language it doesn't sound good it could sound really corny yeah yeah so right I was really careful with that yeah but you've got to play with some of those dudes in your career certain well I got to I feel feel more comfortable in that whole genre because I mean to me jazz is jazz is really special I mean I think jazz is what we're all looking for right jazz is freedom yeah yeah yeah and that's that's the thing I think that's what it exemplifies jazz the most is it's you get to do your thing yeah yeah when you know a group setting so it's it doesn't hinge on commercial success or or necessarily you know contacts like if you're in it you're in it yeah it's just jazz well you know that's the start sad part of what's happening in this country because a dear friend of mine was Stan Gats I mean we were like brothers the last four years of his life he used to go to Europe red carpet service man they didn't care whether he had a hit record or not they just remembered that he was a great musician they hung on with them whatever country he went into respect respect he'd come back to LA and you know be a whole different story what do you attribute that to that the that glad that jazz is so specific and so niche in this country as opposed to like France or anywhere where they have a true appreciation for all forms of music yeah it's not good education I think yeah you know we've we've managed to carve out the the arts program and music in the public and some of the private schools so that's what you get people are coming up to their own water level it's kind of low at the moment right right now okay so you're taking all that stuff in so when do you sort of what's your first foray into pop music out before the brass well let's see before the brass you know when I heard this record by Les Paul and Mary Ford but Les was a layering his guitars on this record and his voice his wife's voice Mary Ford as well so I started doing that at home in my little studio I don't know in my garage I built a room inside a room and it happens in garages man I'm telling you yeah so I started fooling around with layering my horn on this from paint machine to tape machine I came up with the sound that said to me mm-hmm that's good and that was the genesis of the the Tijuana brass sound and and who are the guys who how'd you recruit the dudes with the original Tijuana brass there were no dudes it was like there was no group until after I recorded the whipped cream and other delights out then I got a group together but no I was using you know there was this the first record was pretty you know she was I was playing piano on it and singing parts and and playing percussion you know did everything yeah I played the trumpet and it was a couple hundred bucks to make then after a while when we did the lonely bull album and after that we were using you know these guys called the wrecking crew yeah I did Danny to dasco did a documentary about his dad Tommy he did a fantastic job with this I mean you're honoring his dad who was a few nominal I get to our yeah I knew nothing about any of that until I really talked to him and and I'm so happy that he got the rights and got everything he needed to get that out in the right well I really took him along to get the copyright straight and all that but he hung on like a like a pit bull yeah yeah and just learning about those musicians I saw the Brian Wilson movie and just unbelievable bunch of people you lived in it yeah I was fun to watch those guys because they were very flexible they go from our session to the beach was a Sinatra to you know whatever and they'd be you know I think they got off on it I think they were in the moment you know yeah hell was totally consumed with what I was trying to do and is trying to you know get into it yeah try to see the music through me and he always did it so like you know you've had like you've made like do you even know how many records no no a lot and you've had a lot of number one hits and you've had concurrent hits and you've had you know several Grammys do you was there do you like I know the music's magic but like the Tijuana brass comes and that sound mocks in what was going on culturally and music that you think like just blew everyone's mind about what you were doing do you ever think about it yeah I think about it and I think it all has to do with a song I think it's all about songs mm-hmm good melodies yeah taste that honey was like huge yeah it back it was in the back door by the way how so well this after I did the whipped cream album finally got a group together traveling group together my partner loved the song that I did called third-man theme and Taster Funny was on the B side uh-huh so when we got the group together and we were playing at this place in Seattle Washington the edge water in every time I played Taster Funny people would go crazy man and so I called Jerry I said Jerry I'm telling you man there's a focus group here that's telling me there tastes of honey is a side not not third-man thing he says well man you can't dance to it he stops and stars and you know I said tell me look at man it's taste funny so we finally turned it over and it became you know a big hit and that was the door opener that was the door that swung so wide that we got you know Ed Sullivan and Dean Martin and all those major shows and and you had not so to put together touring band who were the guys you chose for that and why well we auditioned musicians and I just chose the guys that I felt good represent me what I was doing and how long did you travel with him oh a long time yeah yeah through 1969 from 1960 of six or 1965 and a half to 69 and that's sound man I mean it's a very specific sound you you created you know there's a you hear any of your music you know it's you but that's a rare thing well it might be rare but that's that's the thing you're all going for sure for as an artist whether you're a dancer a poet yeah a writer a disc jockey sure man you go for your own thing you know and that's what I was doing I wanted to to express myself uh-huh because I could have done the lonely bull sideways and tried to do you know with the fancy stuff with the same thing no I wanted to see how far I could I could push it's a swing to it right I mean what do you what do you call your sound I mean it has a good feel yeah it has a good feel and you know I can pick on good songs but I'll tell you what happened but lonely bull was a top 10 I got this letter from a lady in Germany uh-huh you said dear mr.
Alpert thank you for sending me on this vicarious trip to Tijuana now I chuckled when I saw it and I thought wow that music was so visual for her it transported her I mean I got I want to make visual music that's what and that's pretty much the way I hear it and the other thing that happened was that you know I had this great experience with the great Sam Cooke and he taught me a lot and I would um I have this ability because you know I paint and I sculpt and I blow the horn and do my art stuff because I'm 85% in the right side of my brain yeah I have become an audience to what I do you know when I listen to a recording of mine or when I'm recording and I play it back I'm not listening to the trumpet player I'm listening to the overall feeling to the feel good yeah this is something I would want to buy myself if I heard it or you know does it touch me and that's the measure and that's you can detach from it a little bit detach from it completely man I have nine huge totems at the Field Museum in Chicago at the moment and sculptures sculptures yeah in bronze from 13 to 18 feet and when I saw them a week later because we happened to be playing in Chicago I went to the museum and I looked at these pieces I said wow man that's good I mean I know it sounds corny but man that's the way I feel hey man if you can you know if you can have that detachment and that appreciation and know you're done with something and you're proud of it I mean what that's the best I mean we can be one of those guys that's like never good enough well you won't look at it well I think you have to believe in what you're doing I mean if you don't believe in it why are you expecting someone else to believe in it right right yeah I do have that feeling about what I do but that other little dimension of you know when I produced records you know not my own records but other other artists and I'd have the drummer the bass player the piano player in the control room when we're listening to a playback well the drummer saying it's not hearing enough drums the bass player wants to hear more bass and of course right so you gotta block that out and just I would go for the field there's a field right when it feels right for me I stopped yeah and I had that experience in 1968 or so we recorded this guy's in love with you yeah which was a number one record he did vocals on that which wasn't you did vocal it because of this television show I was doing and Burt back directed the arrangements and I was we had the track and I was at Gold Star Studios and I wanted to see whether my voice would sound good on this track if it was in the right key yeah so I'm in the studio singing the song and Burt and some of the other musicians are in the control room I finish it and I walk into the control room they said don't touch it don't touch what he said don't touch a man it was just great a man was honest it felt good you know and I listened to it and I said yeah it does feel good I mean there's little things I would probably could have improved on it uh-huh but the feeling was there I think it's all about feeling sure man and that was a huge hit for you and it was number one it was you didn't do much singing no I don't think of myself as a singer but if you get the right song in the right arrangement yeah hello and the feelings there yeah it's all about feeling now that's what I try to impress on on artists that you know with A&M yeah what about Sam Cook oh man well I wrote you know wonderful world with him with Lou Adler man Sam wrote don't know much about that yeah that's okay and Sam was an unusual artist man he had he had magic he had that it thing whatever that I got a collection of the souls what was his gospel group the soul searchers was it so stores yeah oh my god no no Sam is a lead singer yeah and he had just a innate ability to do the right thing you know he come in with this notebook filled with lyrics he looked at me and Herbie what do you think of this lyric here yeah and I'd look at it and the lyric really look really corny man it really looked like tripe stuff yeah I said what was it what does it sound like what's the song like he'd pick up his guitar and holy moly man the thing was transforming to something fabulous you know he had it because his passion was there his intent was there and I think that's the whole thing with and that's what you learn with him that there was a magic I learned a lot more you know he was he was the first black artist to have his own record company had star records yeah and he was auditioning this artist for his company and I was in the control room with Lou and Sam was listening as well and this artist came in he was from the Caribbean beautiful guy man green eyes and tall and yeah playing guitar and singing I look at him and Sam said what do you think I said well I think the guy's great you gotta sign him he says we'll turn your back on him for five minutes let me know what you think I turned my back and the guy wasn't happening you know what I mean and that's when he said man it doesn't matter if you look like you're black you're white you're kind of echo chamber you're using he said the people are listening to a cold please or wax either makes it or it don't and it's all about you know so I got into that the feel of it and then anytime I'd audition an artist at A&M it was always with my eyes closed you know because of that experience because of that experience because I didn't want to be intimidated I didn't want somebody who could dance like Michael Jackson and just yeah distract you from yeah that guy's a hell of a showman and you don't know that he's terrible well yeah I mean of course it's taken another turn you know with MTV and all that when that came in all of a sudden people were listening with their eyes you know sure and now the spectacle of a pop show is insane dude I mean it's like in some people don't even sing their own track yeah and it's like it's insane so what was he incentive for for starting a label at that time what year was that well that was 1962 and like I was said before they were like a little like a lot of little labels right hanging around yeah taking a chance and we were starting a major company we're just you wanted to release a record of yours yeah yeah and so the original label was called carnival records and how'd you meet your partner well Lou Adler and I were working for a company in New York and the head promotion man went to school with Jerry Jerry Moss and he introduced us introduced me and Jerry at the time was in New York and had desires to move to LA and Lou introduced you no no this Ted Fagan who was the head promotion man at this company okay and how do you know Lou okay Lou you state my ex-wife and I met Lou and I got out of the army and Lou was married to my ex-wife's girlfriend and we became friends we just hit it off like we clicked and I just clicked immediately what did he do then well he was in the insurance he was selling insurance uh-huh whatever that called and then he was working for a clothes or a zidler and zidler and he had a bright poetry so he wrote a lot of poetry and I took the poetry and wrote some music to the poetry and then that started it so he was like he came in as a as a kind of a songwriter in a way well yeah we were both songwriters at the home and then we we had about six songs that we made demonstration records of and we took them around the various publishing companies and we took it to one company we took it to specialty records and Sonny Bono was the A&R directors at that time especially we had go downstairs in this little funky room and Sonny listened to the thing and he said I don't think you guys are right for this business he tried to talk us out of it so that's a young shiny before Phil Spector before anything oh yeah that was before that yeah we finally got a job with keen records K double E and Lou Lou and I and that time Sam was their major artist he had that you send me record which was number one and we started working for bumps black well who produced Sam's records as songwriters as songwriters and you know just watching people record and learning that bit what are the songs did you write for in that time well we wrote a song called All In My Life it didn't happen but the experience I had which was the aha for me was we were at Radio Recorders in Los Angeles and I was privy to watch this session that this producer he was with Challenge Records and he was a noted producer and made some hit records and I was in the control room watching him and they were rehearsing in the studio and he got on the horn and said plaz Johnson was playing tenor saxo and he said that was great plaz played that again and plaz said did you record it he said no I didn't but you know what you played just play the same thing yeah and plaz looked at him and disbelieved and I thought like holy shit man I can do that I didn't believe he didn't put it together that plaz had just played something off the top of his head and yeah couldn't reproduce it so okay so A&M it's you and Lou Adler and Jerry right well no I left Lou in around 1958 or nine as a songwriting partner yeah as a partner because I was working at a gym when I was in high school and I said go to this gym now and then this guy said look to me he said man you should be in the movies okay okay put me in you know time I took his challenge and he introduced me to some people at the Paramount Studios oh yeah and took an audition for some things I was really green man I couldn't act yeah they liked me but they said you need you need you know you need to go up yeah anymore chops yeah I started studying I studied with Jeff Corey and then Leonard Nimoy I really I was before Leonard you know hit the big time and I was fun but I realized that that wasn't my thing did you do any movies as a musician background which one oh man I was in 20 years oh yeah like in the band in the band but it like in the 10 command mess I played Kettle Drum I eat a horn I know big sets oh the huge sets into mill direct that so then let me tell you they were I was playing Kettle Drums in the idolizing the Golden calf scene yeah as Moses was coming down from Mount Sinai and the scene was gonna open up on my back yeah all right yeah and I turned around and the mill was up in the you know with the cameraman I turned around and Mr. Demille do you mind opening up on my face you know he looked at me in disbelief and he said not this time kid shot man yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah now that was a quite an experience guy I was on that movie for like three months because the mill would just have extras outside there just in case he wanted to change you know directions and cast a thousand oh it was ridiculous I mean that he was a trip to watch because he had listening one two three there are five guys around him one on each side and then there was a guy following him with a stool so anytime he wanted to sit down and he wouldn't look behind him he would just sit down man the stool either wonder what that guy's up to yeah and then the other guys were like you know if he took off his coat or something she would just take you know he was kind of one of those guys yeah real like he defined something he's like the you know the when you have the idea of the stereotypical old director that's the guy yeah yeah yeah and there's a lot yeah really and there were a lot of you know stories floating around with them mmm-hmm this lady that was supposedly in this movies every movie ever made after the 30s because she called him a ball headed son of a bitch you know yeah because he wouldn't break you know she said this was in the 30s and there's a lot of disruption on the set and he said I'm not gonna you know continue until somebody told me what's the deal and she tried to tend to say I wonder what this ball is done with bitch was gonna break for lunch you know he looked at her and he asked her to lunch and ever since that that was it yeah movie that's hilarious so you're in the acting racket for a little while yeah and Lugo's and does his thing and then how do you do how do you meet up with the Moss well Moss you know eventually landed in Los Angeles and he wanted to do a record with a friend of his an actor friend I helped him put that together and I recorded this record prior to meeting Jerry called tell it to the birds mm-hmm I was singing on that thing because I wanted to really make a demo for I thought it would be good for the Beatles or something right right yeah who wouldn't want to be able to do right so anyways we put that record out under carnival and it started making some noise and with that we sold turned it over to dot records at the time wink Martin it was the yeah yeah he was the first in it that the records yeah they took it they gave us like 500 bucks for it and with that money we've recorded the lonely ball and that was it and then history was made yeah and that's what that was the beginning of an M oh 1962 yeah lollibo was the first record and my partner Jerry you know he took care of all the heavy-duty stuff because he had more of a business concept need that guy yeah definitely need that guy you know so lollibo was 101 that was the name when we the number of the number of the record I said how come it's so 101 he says let's let the distributors think we had a hundred records out before this one so you can get away with that back then yeah so that was good thinking this guy's been around for a while so you did every record of yours on a and up until you left a and m for the most part yeah wow but here's the amazing thing about a and m is like the artist you guys signed who was your a nargai well me and Jerry to start really well there was just the two of us that was it right now that it was in my garage that we started in my garage it was the first artist he signed oh boy we signed a group called the Kenjalleras it was a vocal group they didn't do much a couple of nice records and we signed George McCurn who was the the bass singer with the pilgrim travelers I learned a lot from that group too by the way the pilgrim travelers were recording for King Records and then little about you know the brass was you know we were you know really the ones that were keeping anom alive you guys are big that hits yeah yeah but that was like I'm like around 1968 or seven we picked up we five yeah that group and that was a number one record and then it got in 1966 we signed Sergio Mendes and Brazil 66 which was a nice move and they opened the show for us for some time and then because of that exposure and I produced the first couple albums of theirs they they took off yeah and then you're off and running as a label yeah then we're off and running and then you know Jerry wanted to get a little harder edge and we got Joe Carke and Kath Stevens and how did you get all those guys well from London you know we went to the set up an office yeah we sent up an office in London and wow you did the carpenters oh yeah I signed the carpenters in 69 huge yeah right they were huge it took a while from the really catch on didn't happen right overnight and you and Birk back rack did his solo stuff with you oh yeah we had Birk was recording for us and and then like I'm just looking at the Quincy Jones and Janet Jackson and then super tramp the police the police for sure the police were outstanding I mean first time I saw them in live I mean it was like wow that in that great three guys man making that type of sound oh it's amazing staying you know wrote wonderful songs and but you did humble pie you did free yeah did Joe Jackson Joe Jackson I mean these were like sticks yeah yeah we had a great roster and it was but at some point you hired a new guy oh yeah I don't we yeah that one we really we're stretching out but that was why we sold you know as far as I'm concerned you know we sold the company in 1990 it started with the two of us then three five ten and also we had five hundred people it's a man this is way beyond me having a good time doing this but you know I mean that whole side of the business I imagine initially was not your your goal right and then it just became this amazing thing yeah when I first had the group with do you want to brass before we traveled to Seattle that story I told we played it in Los Angeles and we opened the show for Dave Rubik you know I remember coming off stage and Paul Desmond who was like one of my all-time favorite musicians you know he was leaning against the walls I was coming off and he was scratching his head he said I don't know what I just heard but I think I like it like it seemed that there was a transition in terms of instrumental music instrumental popular music has always had its own place in a way right I mean there was a period in like I guess the 30s 40s and then in the 50s where it was all the music was a lot of instrumental is big band and swing and that kind of stuff but it seemed that you were sort of at the beginning of redefining instrumental music as popular music that kind of led to you know to all of them to you know Spyro Jaira Kenny G all these cats that did that very specific like a very specific area right it seemed like it you know it's unfortunately now instrumental music is kind of on the back burner you know a lot of these stations won't play music if it's just straight instrumental so but it was a popular thing for a long time yeah it was very popular and you never stopped playing throughout all like throughout all the in and you were recording you know dozens of records you didn't stay with the Tijuana brass or you know I didn't stay with them we ended in 1969 I got another group together a little different group of the Tijuana brass in 74 we played for a command performance for Queen Elizabeth which was a trip what songs you play of the Tijuana brass songs but with a little different group and it was you know some other songs as well but it was quite a moment how many Grammys nine for records and production right yeah I don't know so as a producer I've asked other music producers I've talked to what do you servicing what is it what is the job of a producer when you're producing like when you're producing somebody is not maybe not necessarily the type of music that you play yeah it depends who you're producing and you know when I did Sergio Mendez after I did that first album and Sergio kind of got the hang of it you know in that first time we had Mashi Nada which was a big hit in clubs and moderate hit in on the charts I remember in the studio in our studio be with my feet up on the desk and listening to the music thinking man I don't have to do anything it's happening by itself yeah so all I have to do is get out of the way of this thing yeah watch those levels I guess well not let the engineer do that you know so it depends on who you're producing but it's about the songs it's about making an artist comfortable in the studio you know at A&M in studio be I put in this huge crystal embedded into the wall so you know a lot of times artists would come in even if they weren't recording in that particular studio they'd be in front of that that crystal like like they were in Jerusalem wailing wall yeah I'm not having against the thing and with the thing and I don't know what they were thinking about well you know guess what can we remember a little magic yeah well you know it's funny to say that word that's that's the word that that strikes me about art there's a mystery about art what makes something that makes you want to listen to it over and over again or a piece of sculpture that you know gives you a rush or a painting or walking in front of a Jackson Pollock painting and getting it if you think too hard you try to analyze it man you ain't gonna find it no you gotta let it hit you yeah and I think that's what art is is that mystery what is that thing yeah it's good thank God they haven't figured out how to quantify it yeah so I try well so do I I'm chasing it all the time because I know what is that thing that makes me feel good when I hear a particular song or when I'm playing and I get a little you know charge up the back yeah you know yeah that's it so once you left I mean you stated A&M after you sold it for a long time oh just for a couple years yeah don't kind of changed hands and it changed what they had promised Jerry and I you know it kind of morphed into a more corporate type of thing I think was not corporate at all it was like Jerry and I we make decisions quickly and you knew everybody in a way yeah well it's not when there was 500 people I mean yeah when we wanted to sign an artist yeah I'm signing the carpenters yeah he said great yeah it wasn't like he had you had to pass judgment on it and whatever he wanted to sign and where'd you find them I heard a tape yeah and I heard tape and I put this tape on in my office and did the Sam Cooke thing I was sitting in my couch closed my eyes listening to this music and it felt like this voice Karen's voice was like sitting next to me or something there's something powerful about her her voice even though she didn't think she was a singer man she was playing drums on these right demos but she had that certain something I met them and realized you know it wasn't the music that I loved him listen to myself but I I recognized their passion for what they were doing yeah and it was come from a heavy place it turns out yeah but you know it took a while it means a whole story connected with the success and how it came about but it's you know the first year or so I think some of the people in my own company were in doubt why I signed them they thought they're maybe a little too light too too cute whatever and then I gave them a close to you that song that Bert back reckon how David wrote and that was the one that did it and it did it because they recorded it and I listened to it I said no man it's not right it's not heavy enough and he's more artillery they recorded again and Karen was still playing drums on it and rejected it in the third time they got the wrecking crew you know Joe Osborne was playing bass and Cal was on drums and they got the you know the motor going yeah and then you know it's a great arrangement that Richard did it was beautiful and that was the that's what yeah the big door opener for them and ended some of the first comedy records didn't they oh we did oh man this was a mistake you know when we played in New York for the first time I was playing we were playing at the Old Basin Street in New York and who was opening the show for us George Carlin man was opening the show and he was he was fall down funny and he came in suit and tie and short hair and he was talking about commercials and weather and all that and I recorded him and for some reason our people didn't get it so it was never released really and then on top of that one in California we played a series of colleges with the Tijuana brass and Woody Allen opened the show for us really yeah in that short period that he was a stand-up yeah this was before the movies yeah and he was he was dropped dead funny did you ever record did you ever release any comedy records on an empty yeah we did did you teach in Sean yeah well teaching Sean was on Lou Adler's right yeah yeah yeah and so he had a label within a and yeah we distributed his label okay so so that was really the first huge comedy record of the new comedy and yeah and of course Lou had you know Carol King record of tapestry oh yeah that's a record in our studio be that's a huge record huge so after you do you take any time you know in between you know moving out of that environment in your job is a record company you take any time or do you just keep playing do you just sort of like I'm playing all the time I mean I play for my own pleasure yes it's one of those things you know if I'm down and I feel kind of the day ain't happening if I go in my studio and pick up the horn and start fooling around playing various exercises or but the beauty of being a musician and being an artist yeah you get to be in the moment your life you know that's the only thing that matters is the thing you're doing at that moment and your wife now is also a musician well my wife was a lead singer with Brazil 66 okay she was that voice yeah and that's how we met and we were friends you know for some time before anything else happened she's she's an outstanding artist I mean she's a world-class singer so there's two of you in the house yeah so we have a grand old time doing concerts around the country we just got back from Japan that was except for the time change it was fun yeah well you got you know you got it all together that's a gift man yeah I'll tell you what happened in Japan because I didn't realize most of those people don't speak English and they do you can understand them you know there's obviously some that really do well but and we were playing at this club we were playing at the Blue Note Club and I started singing you know I do that in the medley this guy's in love with you and they all started singing with me phonetically it was fantastic that's beautiful that's been a beautiful run for me doesn't actually make you weep sometimes it does with that joy of it like I went I you know something about singing to me like I get very moved by you know especially if there's a lot of people doing it like I go to musicals I don't necessarily consider myself a musical lover but there's some about people singing and dancing yeah well singing is quite a thing I had an experience watching Billy Holiday believe it or not yeah this was maybe a few months before she passed on and she was singing here in Los Angeles a place called I think it was jazz city or a place like that I don't have the name right but anyway she was singing and the drummer behind her was a drop a cap and she turned around and looked at him and said if you wish to solo I will go out in front and listen to you I love that so this new record is now what do you do for labels now how do you handle your relationship with labels are you well we have our own label about presents yes wonderful little do it right at the house label it's out of my wonderful nephews house Randy oh yeah it was in the business my pursuit always has been if I can find a song that I like the melody if I can do it in a way that hasn't been done quite that way before yeah I never heard she'd never get you to sound like that well check out take the A train on the new album okay that's pretty amazing because it's not it's not written in three I do it in three four it's written in four you know I was remember what Picasso once said he said you can paint the same picture over and over again but if you don't do it the same way that's the way to do it that's the trick that's the trick what kind of rooms you're playing well and eight nine hundred to a twelve hundred to fourteen hundred people yeah nice venues and some would play clubs will play clubs in like jazz alley in Seattle which is maybe hold four hundred people but it's fun I know I just I love to play yeah I just really do get off playing the trumpet and who comes out you see a mixture of people all age and they're young to all it's beautiful yeah it's uh when we first thought about getting a group together I was very reluctant I thought maybe okay I'm gonna go out there and people are gonna say play taste of funny play you know all those records that and hits with and it hasn't been like that people are accepting us on the level that representing it it's beautiful man you've had an amazing life sir and I appreciate you sharing some time over here it's been fun thanks man there's more to come yeah I feel that I definitely feel that thanks her thank you pretty lucid pretty lucid man I love when these old dudes can fucking talk and they're still living life and they have a they have a you know just you know peace of mind 80 years old that dude so that's our show I hope you enjoyed that go to WTF pod.com for all your WTF pod needs I will play a little guitar I think you know I need to take some time to learn some new stuff but let me get it together thank you for listening and I'll talk out show with something here