Episode 683 - Sacha Baron Cohen

All right, let's do this. How are you what the fuckers? What the fuck buddies? What the fucking ears welcome to the show?

I am mark maren. This is wtf my podcast. Thank you for joining. I appreciate it I am Excited about today's show as you should be as well.

It's a pretty special show my friends a pretty special show Because you will listen to a conversation I had with Sasha Baron Cohen who does not do many public conversations Not out of character and usually those are short But we talked for a long time seeing like he was ready to talk about some stuff and it was pretty uh It's pretty fascinating, man. It was it was pretty fascinating. I really didn't know what was gonna happen I'm glad I had the opportunity to do it apparently he um He was sort of a defied or requested to do it by a friend of his in England Because I you know he goes out when he has a movie coming out which he does he goes out and does uh he does some stuff but he usually does it does it as does it as you know in character of some sort or he's got a shtick and um Not this time people that's I guess I guess that's what I'm trying to tell you not this time Uh the comedian and writer uh Peter banum british fella who's a friend of asoshes Told him that he had to do the show and he came over a couple weeks ago and we sat in here and I gave him some coffee and he got lit And uh and we went at it. It was it was really great.

It was one of those things where when somebody creates I think that um That sasha has created a couple of real cultural masterpieces and real comedy masterpieces with uh with borat and bruno and um and the oleg stuff And uh and he has done stuff That has such a punch to it and it's so visceral and so immediate Also character driven but but revealing a lot satirically about the world and people in our culture and it just those were amazing contributions To the world of comedy and to satire. He's got a new movie coming out. It comes out march 11th called the brothers grims b which is a um A narrative film a pretty uh exciting and uh goofy uh hybrid of uh Kind of a action movie and doofus movie with some of the most crass Uh filmic joke experiences that uh, I think you'll ever see that's where he's pushing the buttons in this one But the bottom line is I didn't know what to expect and uh, we had a very full ranging Conversation about comedy about art about education about you know a little bit about religion about uh the power of comedy and why we do it And uh, I don't know man It was uh, it was exciting for me because I don't I don't know about you I always wanted to know what was inside that guy and what drove him and and I got as close as you're gonna get To getting some answers So that's coming up in a few minutes. It's you know his commitment to characters is is astounding And you know as I talked to him about uh, you know how he puts those characters together Why he puts those characters together?

I mean what I found out about him and you'll find out too as you listen to it is that he loves the rush He's a real comic, you know, he you know, he didn't uh, he's a natural But you'll be surprised to listen to how he trained and what he really wanted to do and what uh, you know What is the real intent of of his movies and his characters and and it's not unlike uh, uh a comedian Uh, or somebody who does things that are provocative somebody who takes the risk of putting themselves out there in front of other people And or in situations for that for that adrenaline that juice Yeah, man. I mean I just I think about that a lot I've been thinking about that a lot lately in relation to my life and how long do we have to live and what's really happening and What choices am I making? What do I need to do? What do I don't need to do at this point at this juncture in the history of me?

Who am I? It's weird man because I come full circle a lot of times I You know, I'll go years where I feel like I've made strides and I have in some areas But the same shit in my head, you know, you just you hit these cycles You have these moments where you're realizing holy fuck Am I just a collection of ticks and habits or repetition of behaviors and actions that circle back around? It's amazing the limitations that you find in yourself And then when you talk to somebody like Sasha who has this freedom of uh of talent to immerse himself and characters on purpose Uh, it seems very liberating to me because a lot of times we just become the characters we are in as a reaction To the situation we're in I guess my point is is that for fuck's sake don't be too hard on yourself if you're freaking side And you just say like all right, you know, maybe maybe some of that will come out in a healthy way And maybe some of that shit i'm just gonna have to live with and die with There's no wide open man There is you know, but it's a pretty fragile place and it's a pretty fucking rough world I do think I did get certainly More than I expected and I had a great conversation with a guy that has been you know privately hiding behind characters for a very long time So enjoy my talk now with Sasha Baron Cohen I'm very happy you're here. You seem like an elusive character.

Yeah. What today I do No in general you like a rare like a started. Yeah, like you're a rare a rare animal. I'm sorry It's like a word like a yeti exactly who is that guy?

Does he do anything outside of the thing? Not really Louis C. K. Yes, who I heard your Interview podcast.

Yeah, what time would you do? Yeah, my conversation your conversation? He actually he wants came and we employed him for two days to work on pruno That movie movie I did. Oh, did you really?

Yeah, what did he do? Well a lot of it was uh, I don't know if you've seen the film It's a gay ostrich character. Yeah, I know the character and um In it he has a transformation. Yeah, he goes he goes into self-hatred and he becomes an ultimate homophobe And so Louie came in just for that kind of transition bet and he was saying There's a lot of advice on how I could build up muscle So he basically came like wait this brilliant comedian a lot of it was like if you just you know when you're talking people just bent Just you know lift do the curls continually while you're talking.

Yeah, and actually he came up He said you should do something in the ultimate fighting arena. Uh-huh. Oh, that's he came up with that Well, he said do something in there I don't think quite had what we're actually gonna do that but that was he had the kind of brainwave off That is something that would be great to stick a gay man in and that was that was sort of a hairy scene, right? I mean that almost caused trouble, didn't it?

Yes, so um That was a tricky scene actually was tricky because so we wrote the so Louie came in he had that idea of the ultimate fighting Yeah, and then I'm with my friend aunt Heinz. He's this um great bold writer I've been working with for 18 years from Britain. Yeah, and we're thinking um You know, we want to finish the movie. Yeah in this arena like a normal romantic comedy has the guy proposed to the girl in a stadium for the Sports fans make it and they're on the video.

Yeah, it's on the video. We thought all right. Let's do that Let's have all the sports fans. Yeah, but let's do it an ultimate fighting arena and let me make out with a guy Yeah, so so we wrote in the script all right.

We're gonna do this and it's gonna turn into a riot and We knew it be a security issue. Yeah, you know like how do you so you you know, I don't know if you haven't been to see an ultimate Fuck thing. No, it's not it all doesn't go well with comedy general comedians don't really from my mind. I mean well I mean Rogan's like an actual announcer.

So throw Joe Joe. Joe. I was an actor. He's a comedian.

He's actually an announcer I mean, it's just not my thing. I can't even deal with it ironically I just yeah being around you know that much alpha male and sanity just creeps me out a little bit so they don't know they don't know your character No, no, no, no, so basically I thought how do I get out that we're gonna have two thousand rednecks We want to have a riot but how do we get out there and they don't even rednecks they're more bros or more sort of muscle bros, right? Well, we did it the first one we did was in Tex, Arcana, okay Which I've been to once before Tex Arcana is only famous for one thing yeah They pulled an African American man. Well one person pulled an African American man behind her.

Oh, that's right until he died So that that's the that's almost like wrestling fans. They're wrestling man. It's an extreme place Right basically we're there on the day and the question is we were 200 people short We couldn't have the 2000 and one of the judges was a worked-out prison. Yeah, a jail.

Yeah, and he said all right I can get 200 guys and suddenly 200 guys come out there from on parole these guys had swastikas on their heads and really yeah Yeah, so it's pretty good crazy. So basically I do the I'm told by my lawyer beforehand because what to make a will well well Well firstly firstly the studio we did it through this company called MRC and they go We just want to sign this document I go what's the talking and it's basically an insurance policy that if I get killed during filming yeah, they get all their money reimbursed So I'm like why I've never I've never had to sign this for why don't they go just sign it please otherwise we won't make the movie So anyway get to the thing and I have this the night before I'm on the phone with my lawyer I got this great lawyer who basically is this gay southern man. He's a genius in first amendment He lives in India and he is that happened. I don't know you got he's kind of moved to an ashram He's like a dude.

Okay, and he's got 15 lawyers working for him And whenever in trouble we call up and they're like okay in the gates of Smith versus the state of Arkansas Because they're very clear that in indeterminate so we call them up and it's really good for us because we can call them up late at night and they're experts So he has 15 guys, you know one guy is just Arkansas, Texas All Constitution first amendment law and so they go it goes all right There's like 12 things you need to know none of these laws can you break? You know and the big one was he said whatever you do you know don't Don't incite a riot because that's a federal offense You know if you're crossing a state line to incite a riot then that's punishable, you know by minimum I think three years and it's a federal offense. So that's what the Chicago 7 were up for actually right But you would not it's sort of a gray area. I mean, it's not what you wanted to do Yeah, the problem was it was what I wanted to write So I said there's a problem because I am crossing a state line in order to incite a riot at the end because I think it'll be great Thing just a move insanity.

Yeah, and so they were about 15 things He said whatever you do, you know, so we went through all the nudity laws and the decency laws sanity Yeah, so we had to like let people know that there would be nudity So as a result, I had this poster printed which had like, you know girls and bikinis really hot girls and bikinis going There will be nudity ultimate at Friday obviously when they got there there was a male nudity And then there were about 15 stipulations of like, you know, I can kiss him on the mouth I can kiss him on the nipple. I can't put finger in his rectum. He can place a open at palm on my Cheek but not the moment it gets within two centimeters of the rectum you're at dawn that it's a basically Arkansas Ended up being one of the only places in America we could get away with it because there was some The indecency laws were kind of framed wrongly They put the punctuation in the wrong place really and so essentially we thought we could win in a in a Cool case if you what if you put a finger in a rectum? Well, no even those would still be right but the idea of kind of you know making out making out with the guy Yeah, big almost naked was okay.

Yeah, and but so what ended up happening and how the hell did you get out of there because it was it was bad, right? Yes, it's pretty bad So I interviewed a bunch of security guys before and I go right here's your setup I'm in an ultimate fighting cage 2000 guys. They get angry. I'm gonna make out for guy How do you get me out and the seven guys all failed and then one guy caged me?

You had to tell them the joke. Yeah, I told my security guy We were hiring and then a guy came back. He just been in Afghanistan looking at the cars I and he said all right, sir, you know trap door Yeah, and he said that's the only way to get out which is a trap door So we built a trap door in the cage and then this guy when he shouted go go go the rule was I had to go right so Also for the night he like you know, they hired like eight security guys to be around the cage They're like there's no way anyone is getting in that cage and I go right great So we did it was interesting actually because we're doing the scene, right? You know, it's in a real environment, right?

And it's the end of the movie so it has to work and it's so our aim is I've got to make my boyfriend's gonna come into the arena into the ring I haven't seen him for six months. I become this homophobe disgusting guy called straight Dave And he's gonna see me. I'm gonna fight him. Yeah, beat the shit out of him And then when I'm gonna give him the final death blow I'm gonna kiss him instead because I might he breaks my heart.

Right. I'm gonna make laugh And it's gonna be a riot. Yeah, that's the aim and at the end of the movie And that's all we have to do. We've got one opportunity to do it And I said listen just in case it doesn't work.

Let's book another place in Arkansas the night after so anyway It's like Buster Keaton with the general in the train. Yeah, he's like that one shot Yeah, you got one blows if you didn't get it's over So I get there and I made a mistake I made a mistake which was in the writing this shows you when a scene is wrong and a scene is right the audience know it So with there and I'm straight Dave. I come on you're fucked out of everyone, you know And I get everyone drunk and they love me And my okay who wants to fight me And my boyfriend comes into the room. I haven't seen him And the first thing I do is I attack him and I beat him up and he's got fake blood in there And he's like a weak looking guy.

Yeah, and he's bleeding at the end and the crowd's not booing me Because you're beating him up. Yeah, I'm beating him up and he's bleeding and he looks weak And so I did the one thing that the lawyer told me not to do which was I challenged the audience to fight me I said all right because I've been told by the bodyguards. There's no way anyone's getting in So okay, come on. If you're fucking someone else a shit kicked out of your I beat I rip your butt And and I knew no one could get in the cage And then at that point I see like some kind of six foot ten giant, you know 250 pounds Huge muscle in the end of two men run.

It's not running towards the cage. I go this no way this guy's getting over I got security around it. I look down the security are gone They're looking off this a big fight is broken out with all the prison get the guys from the jail And there's no one there here. I go right.

He's not gonna go with this cage one hand two hand And he does a flip a lands does this somersault lands and he's huge this guy's ripped He's an ultimate fighter and he you know puts his arms in the air and the crowd roar And basically at that point I hear go go go I jump out of the trap door Anyway, my friend aunt who's the writer with the okay writer We're in this tunnel So so we have a trap door the trap door leads to a tunnel the tunnel goes straight to a car that's got its door open With the engine running because we know if we got to go everyone's gonna run off So anyway aunt comes into this tunnel and he says all right get back in there. Come on sash get in there Go back in the ring. Yeah, go back in the ring. Okay.

There's a guy and he's gonna kill me And not only that they start throwing metal chairs into the ring the guys, you know Because getting there finished the movie come on. We've been working this movie for two years finish the movie go in Kiss your boyfriend finish the movie we go home. I get that kind of came with so I said to the body god I go all right pop your head in and If I can get in without going to hospital Oh or go to hospital for a long time then I'll do it and he goes all right. I go.

Hey you agree? Yeah, yeah, so the body got puts his head in and he goes get out of here We run we jump into the car then so we drive over in Tex, Arcana and word is obviously got out there I'm in town. They know it's you know, they know it's me It's 2,000 people there who are looking for me We get straight in the cars and we drive through Arkansas to the next place the police find out about it I can't remember which town we went to so how'd you get that last shot? So I set up the same ring the next night We had 2,000 people the next night and what we did was we couldn't put barbed wire on the top because I had to have some way Stocking people jumping in yeah, um So I put fake barbed wire on the top of the ring so that people psychologically wouldn't want to jump into the ring.

Yeah, and We had all the chairs kind of you know stuck down with metal basically metal chains I went going and yeah, we did it the next night to an unsuspecting audience. We had the police there They're about 15 cops there and you have to drive door and everything Yeah, we had the trap door and the base of the cops said listen We know we heard about in Tex, Arcana Yeah, if you break any of these laws we're resting you so it's a bit like the end of the blues brothers I had the cops there they were gonna get me if I broke the law if I like a door is counted Yeah, I was waiting for you to show your dick exactly And then you know the guy and then I sort of just want to make sure that nobody got in and In the end it kind of really worked. We changed the scene a tiny bit So I realized that there was a problem with the scene because I attacked him the crowd booed me this time I said, you know, I'm gonna turn my back to the crowd and you're gonna go and punch me in the head And he did it and it was great because he was playing unfairly the crowd on my side Right, I then hit him he hit me he was tougher I had some blood and then the crowd was on my side. Yeah, and they were fully behind me They're ready for me to really hurt him and that's when I kissed him Yeah, and that's when they freaked out But they couldn't jump over and then somehow so I'm kissing I'm making out all the time and thinking of all the legal laws You know, I can stroke his arse that he goes to put finger in my arse I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa?

I can't kissing in there and then at one point I see another chef flying in it's a metal chef flying in I think what's happened? What happened was somebody got a knife in and was soaring through the chains So committed to hurting me and then eventually so I thought I'm lying on my back and I'm thinking if I hold my co-star tightly I can move from left to right and dodge the chair But eventually after two chairs the I hear go go go and the rule was once you go go go you have to go go Yeah, so go into the tunnel into the wake-up drive off What we didn't think about though was that we had left the crew there with 20 ultimate fighters Who didn't know what was going on and would really piss to the crew Yeah, and these 2000 guys so there was it turned into this riot and in the end I think it took about 40 cops to March into there to rescue the crew. Did they get hurt anybody? No, I mean we had like Larry Charles was the director He picked up the monitor, you know the monitors really happen He's like threatening to smash people in the face of the monitor and they managed to get out all right Yeah, well like when you're working with Larry and you guys know what this is gonna happen You know this shit is gonna happen I mean I can see when you're talking about it that there's it's the excitement of a guy who jumped off a mountain and lived You're like the thrill of it all I mean you're entering the situation knowing full-world that this shit is gonna be on some level life or death right like you know Larry knows that you know that so so like it was worth the risk to you obviously But how much of that was really the reason you did it and how much of it was you know to sort of make this provocative piece of film I mean it almost seems like extreme sports in itself So is the question whether we did it for the film or just the buzz of it?

Yeah, okay, that's a really interesting question Okay, I think you get to the heart of actually which is so when we're making the film we're like 10 guys on the road Yeah, this is for all of them for Bruno and Borat Yeah, so the Aligee show and you get addicted to the adrenaline once you beat the cops once yeah, you go. Ah, you know great Let's get next one. Yeah, what can we do now? Then you beat the FBI and then you know you start with the FBI with the Aligee show in terms of getting access Getting access the FBI walk on bullrat the FBI started following us.

They got so many complaints that there was a terrorist Traveling in an ice cream van that really it was you know it was you know we shot it 10 years ago So it was a couple years after 9-11 when we actually saw that's interesting because that's like weird backstory that really adds to the message of the movie That they were that paranoid that they of course the terrorists would be a little fat guy in this guy in an ice cream truck Yes, exactly with the classic so the FBI got so many complaints that they've stopped you know compiling a little Farland right and eventually they came to visit us at the hotel and we you know I obviously went missing you know when I heard is it like FBI's downstairs Sasha disappear? Oh really? Yeah, because you don't want me to be apprehended. I mean we have one time in New York when we make you a stating character Well the first time I used to stay in character with the police Yeah, the first time I think was in Sedona in Arizona Right and we didn't really have our shit together and we didn't know the law well enough and so I thought I was with Borat yeah, we're we are taking the LG show and there was some kind of psychic masseuse who he was trying to get me to relax I was being very tense ago.

I'm gonna go out the room when I part of my terrible American accent when I come back in I want to be relaxed it comes back in and I masturbate it Yeah, well I'm asked about that today under the clock right so I thought what's the big deal he calls the police So the police turn up I'm at the next place and I'm alone yeah, and the police sort of surround I thought okay, I'll pretend to be asleep the police pull me out of this car and they start questioning me and I'm gonna Know what the problem is and they go what what exactly did you do? I was a touch my mom and making a swift move man. I got sir. What is a crumb?

I'm a crumb and you know I go to Yeah, exactly and then so I stayed in character Mike the crew wasn't around known was around you know Yeah, and I went I went to blow my nose put my hand in my pocket the guy pulled his gun But you realize by the way when you hear about all these kind of African American kids getting shot You've got to be so well trained to not get shot right here in that part right so easy right I was gonna blow my nose and I was gonna shoot me what sort of like you sort of deal with that in the new movie when you finally get the gun Yeah, there's that more like yeah, when you saw me You know it's gonna go is gonna use it right um so I hand it we handed over the tape actually because we didn't realize there's a problem They wanted the tape they said stay here you're gonna have to gonna have to come back and arrest you and what we didn't realize was We called up the lawyer our lawyer in India and he said Simulating Mastipation in Arizona is a crime and it's two years imprisonment and actually I think I'll Kelly went to jail for that Uh-huh one of the things went to jail for um, so we said to the lawyer Okay, what do we do he said get on a plane right now get out right because they've got they've got the evidence You gave over the tape was the worst thing you could ever do right so again getting back to it So there was some part of you you know Even though you had the conceit and the structure of of what this character was capable of in provoking a social message or a satirical message But but there was some other part of you that was like how far can we push the law yes Yes, you know I became very excited well everything I've ever done lawyers have immediately said their knee-jerk reaction has been it's illegal We can't do that in yeah, they do that with everything Yeah, I'm just yeah air on the side of like don't do that yeah exactly I mean the lawyer their aim and I have to always you know explain it to the sort of heads of the channels Yes, or studios is the aim your lawyers is not tell you what's legal It's to prevent your company from getting sued right and it was in bull right we ended up getting sued I think you know 150 times but it ended up being very beneficial for Fox uh-huh because you knew you were okay Yeah, we were all right we knew we were on the right side of the law But they still got to pump some money into you know making that clear Yeah, you know I still have to go like now in that class you know thousand dollars a second Yes, exactly you get insurance for the okay, you know for the kind of lawsuits so in the script writing stage of the movie Yeah, it's all about you know what will make the greatest movie and what make the bet not the greatest what make the best Yeah, but yes, there is that problem and obviously you know criminals must have the same thing as well Which is once the adrenaline kicks in you get addicted to the adrenaline Yeah, and that's when you start making silly mistakes and the crew would say come on Let's just do this and do that Yeah, you know that's when actually people can start getting hurt or rested is it interesting because that momentum? Like specially Borat because that's sort of a masterpiece and you know and you know and it's considered that and it deserves it And it did show a lot of us more about our country and also was hilarious and whatever But the idea that you know that if people aren't inherently prejudiced they are inherently you know complacent that they you know Out of politeness. They'll go ahead and sing you throw the Jew down the wall They're even in that mood even in that moment like you can get the feeling like what it's a roomful of anti-Semites It's actually a roomful of fucking Hicks that are sort of like well this goes in don't just guy You know but on the other side of that the flip side that is dangerous is what you're talking about Which is where you get a group of people that get so adrenalized by the possibility of starting shit that shit happens Yeah, there's a few interesting issues you brought up there because You're right throw the Jew down the well, you know, what is it really show does it and I suppose for people listening out there They haven't seen it. I Google throw the Jew down the wheel.

You're right. It's much. I don't even explain it Yeah, so what is it show does it show that the people in that part around his Semitic? No, not really They probably don't hate Jews.

They probably here's the moment as a Jew here What I felt was that you know at first they're like who the fuck is this guy and then it then then next they realize you're not a threat He's sort of a clown. Mm-hmm. So, you know the song stupid. He's stupid.

Let's okay Let's indulge the foreigner. He seems to be sort of speak trying to speak our language Yeah, but once they all started singing I had this feeling that you know when you started talking about Jews and money and you know By the horns that there is part of their you know limited intellectual narrative that involves Jews, you know running the government So, yeah, of course that is a bit of a answer and I think I think you're right I think it's you know, what is it show is there any satire in it? I think it shows not necessarily that they're anti Semitic, but I think the dangerous thing is people who are indifferent about evil people Right, right. So essentially somebody comes up and says has an incredibly racist song against African Americans Yeah, vicious and about them being you know the worst there are times of African Americans for a crowd to just come and sing along and go Yeah, with the black, you know, the malaria be is almost more dangerous.

I mean I at university started Nazi Germany is amongst especially in 20th century history Yeah, and there was the main historian at the time this guy called Ian Kershaw He was the main historian of that period and his thing here this sentence which was the path to Auschwitz was paved with indifference Right, which I thought that was it's a great comment. It's not that people are actively hate black people It's not that people actively hate gypsies or actively hate Jews. It's that they're ready to let it happen What's that this is one of these things like as an American Jew, you know, you sort of brought up with this You'll Holocaust awareness that it sort of plowed into you And even when I was a kid, you know, I'm 52 You know, they show us the movies at Hebrew school and you really can't wrap your brain around that experience I mean, it's not that you know that I'm indifferent But it's like how do I really understand that that really happened and that's possible that it's happening And then there's like outside of the the sort of indifference There's the good German thing that you know the people that go along with whatever authorities in place And I think also like what you see in the in the Borat movie is that is that as long as it's not us? Yeah, fuck it.

Yeah, you know, you know, I mean maybe they are a problem I don't know. Yeah, but you went to where'd you go to college? I went I went in England. I went to Cambridge That's a good school.

Yeah, I mean, it's good I went there mainly because of the Cambridge footlights that so Monty Python came out of the Cambridge footlights So that was I wanted to do comedy which is what the sort of like nine theater theater group Yeah, it's like the comedy group. Okay, and ironically, so I went there, you know, I went there to get into this group It's a bit like the lampoon and I was never allowed in really yeah So that was you know, I got there the first week great do the audition and couldn't get in and as a result of that I Ended up doing straight acting a rumor went around the university that I was this brilliant actor You know, I'd never done any acting before I got given this lead in a check-off play Yeah, and the rehearsal was not happening and the director said women you you can't act and so he said I'm gonna sack you from the Get rid of you. Yeah, you can't and the rest of the car They really liked me and they're like you sack him We all go and so I ended up actually doing this check-off play and ended up doing kind of straight rolls And what did how do you do with it? It ended up being fine in the end?

I did a kind of Sort of funny version of the check-off. It was a check-off comedy, but you're always compelled towards comedy. Yeah, yeah Wait, so where'd you start? Where'd you go up then?

What part so I grew up in Northwest London and what's that like? It's a kind of pretty Jewish neighborhood. Yeah, so middle class. Yeah, and your dad did what accountants.

Oh, yeah Yeah, and what do you mind you she was like a keep fit teacher keep fit. Yeah, we are exercise classes Yeah, I talk classes in the living room. Oh really? Some Jewish ladies from the movement exactly Yeah, pretty big living room was a very small class.

It was a small class Living at it necessarily, but she had her heart was in the right way exactly and how many siblings you have I got two brothers Oh, yeah, and are they in show business? Well, one is the composer for he's a composer. He does all the movies that I do Oh, that's nice. He's out here is he he's in London But he was so we grew up is a jazz musician growing up Oh, yeah, and so the house was always full of music and he'd take me older brother older brother Yeah, brother and so from the age of kind of 12 he was taking out he used to do sort of late night jams I know that's the only place you could sort of practice your jazz and he was trying to get into jazz college So you'd have to go to these clubs I would go somehow my parents allowed me to go to these midnight jams Yeah, we'd get back at like four in the morning and then I'd wake up to school at seven Yeah, but yeah, so you ended up you know Sort of versing that kind of music and then he started producing like a soul and early kind of R&B Yeah, kind of stuff So we had a there was always a kind of you know a lot of the artists were round in the living room eating my mom's food Oh, yeah, so your parents were pretty progressive open creative people in a way.

Yeah, they were at least at least indulged you guys Yes, they were happy for us to make some music and mock around yeah To have that to be interested in something yeah, well my dad loved comedy my mom loves music So what was your first exposure to comedy that made you sort of like have that mom? We're like holy shit I think I was eight years old yeah and life of Brian came out of the cinema so yeah So it was an X in it's kind of the best movie yeah, it's incredible and my brother's managed to sneak me into a cinema And exit was an ex which is an 18 Yeah, so it got back actually life of Brian got banned a lot of England because of the country the religious Yeah, and my brothers took me in I think it was the first time I'd seen a fully naked woman Yeah, and is there a guy's cocking out? I feel like there is a guy's cocking out. I think there is maybe I like to think so Why not well?

I mean let's blame that yeah, so and that obviously I mean there's probably a lesson there Which is don't show eight year olds x-rated movies with car yeah exactly But I just remember loving it and I was obsessed by Python after that yeah and now and so you like watch all the flying circus Yeah, yeah, and you know meaning of life. Oh, yeah There was something about going into cinema and they're being that outrageous laughter. Yeah, I think maybe Subconsciously I'm trying to achieve I don't know no no very good at the self-analysis stuff Are you not know the English people and not very good at that I know Americans are burning that yeah It's a that is sort of true isn't it's no but you grew up with you have sort of open-minded people who taught exercise classes There is some self-awareness. There must have been a little of that.

I don't know I don't think in England there's much self-awareness. I think you know if people are what they describe as mentally ill here in England You just call them eccentric, you know, everyone finds them like to find eccentric Dolce until the annoying and yeah, yeah, that guy yeah, you know that be you know that be a some guy flashing Yeah, right in the nearby part. That's just some eccentric guy, you know So when did you first start the performing comedy of any kind so I think I was about nine years old when I wrote my first sketch Based on a Python sketch kind of problem. Yeah, I mean it's terrible but I was in this kind of Jewish youth club and They would do kind of final performances and you know final parties and I would write a little sketch and I get so excited about it Yeah, and then yeah, I don't know you know I started doing a little routine with my brother on the circuit.

He was a musician. I'm what circuit the Jewish youth club It's kind of the Jewish old age old age home circuit I will be then I was about 16 and we were dressed as Chacetic Jews sing like Jewish song Yeah, and one of the songs was this song called schwitzing Yeah, which was about how these cecetic Jews get so hot Yeah, that they end up shaping their bids and taking their clothes off and actually converting to Christianity at the end and it came down terribly I mean these old age homes with Peter who was booking you I don't know But the other people like please take the money never come back here again. Would you call yourselves the common brothers? I can't I can't read the schwitzing brothers about eventually I got seen doing that and I got hired to by the Paramount Comedy Channel To do Bruno actually to do like some kind of undercover stuff the air version of Bruno.

Yeah, I did this Starting this cable show when I was about 23. Yeah, and it had about 40 viewers But I was doing these characters. Yeah, and one of the characters was this early form of Ali G Yeah But Ali G like this is what's interesting also interesting about the brothers Grimm's me is that these characters, you know that guy What's his name? Yeah, no, but no be is very specific British type Yeah, you know what you were lampooning is very specific British type as was Ali G and both of them are you know We can get it enough.

You know, we know what the American version is but you know Ali G I still don't know exactly what his background would be or who that guy you know, what was your what was his life like? Yes, well, it was intentionally ambiguous. So Ali G the idea was you know How could I go into a room with a very intelligent person? He was an expert usually a member of the upper class and ask the most idiotic questions possible and not get thrown out the movie right, so I decided that if you have this you know with off Ethnicity about him and possibly even Islam or Pakistan or whatever that their prejudice would lead them to assume that I could be Incredibly badly educated.

They're white guilt would in with they would indulge you. Yeah, because it would look that like it's sort of like I'm talking to one. Yeah, exactly right and also there's stereotype of the uneducated ethnic masses Right meant that they believed that somebody as idiotic as Ali G could exist when actually Ali G couldn't exist There's nobody that if you without somebody was that stupid They probably would die, you know, they would the one I owe to more than actually be dead right? Yeah, the idea was he was ethnically ambiguous as a result of that when I Within like a couple of weeks of you know putting them out on there Every there are few ethnic communities that claim me as they read the Greeks Greek community said he's Greek Yeah, Pakistani community said he's Pakistani and actually part of the black community said he's black Yeah, even though I wore no makeup and as you can see I'm pretty damn white Yeah, and then at some point it came out that I wasn't any of those and I was actually Jewish and then at that point I was accused a Black paper in England wrote an article saying is Ali G racist, which is a bizarre question The Ali G is a fictional character.

So I don't know maybe he is racist. We hadn't worked it out right, but I think they were asked the question of was the creative lg races and They asked a bunch of black comedians eight of them said no and two of them said one said I don't know and one of them said yeah He's a racist that led to headlines in all the new space wine England one comedian. Yeah, to have a driven culture Exactly. All the tabloids wrote Ali G is a racist and they didn't even know I think a lot of them didn't know my name And it became at that point I had this dilemma which was do I come out and say come on man?

I'm an anti-racist and you know Racism an anti-racism is a issue that I feel strongly about yeah when I was you know my 20s I used to march against racists and fascists and neo-nazis and you know university You know my undergraduate thesis was all about racism so and how to combat that so so what were the questions? You were asking yourself I mean like you know did you have to do some soul searching around how that character was being misunderstood or did was there? No, I didn't have to do any soul session my thing was I knew where I stood on race I knew that I was vehemently against any form of racism Yeah, and I wanted to shout out and you know say the press I'm not a racist and here's my evidence But I decided to do nothing We were making the Ali G show at the time and me and the producers sat down we just said you know what let's just won't engage Don't engage yeah, and for a week the press debated it as to whether it was a race and you're just watching them talk about this How you invented yes, and basically at the end of the week they concluded that it's not racist at all And some of the kind of greatest intellectuals in England came out and said you know He's not a racist but by the end of the week by doing nothing I become from this niche comedian I became a household name Because of that because I said nothing because of the public argument about whether or not the characters racist or whether that it represented Yes, but like didn't Ali G have some Caribbean affect a bit. Yes.

Yeah, he was he was a he wanted to be black Yeah, he wanted to say he spoke in Jamaican part while yeah And the idea was he was this probably middle and his ambiguous, you know So a little class guy yeah from some kind of ethnic background It's unclear and irrelevant actually who? Was unhappy with the hamon day in his own ethnic life was and actually wanted to adopt this exciting foreign African-American gangster culture right so you know complete that was what I think what blew everyone's mind here was like This is a completely unique and ambiguous ethnic character Yeah That the fact that it didn't land on on the radar in any sort of set way made it even more interesting and more empathetic in a way And I have some kind of affinity with that actually I mean my first first way I made money from the age of so 11 to 14 was as a Sort of break-dancer a break her on the you know I used to go on the streets had one friend and you know we used to go and make some you can do it You put the cardboard down just put the car we had a linoleum. Oh, you did you were guys were pros You have a no-y about four yeah, we were terrible But we were so young that we made some money people are like look at them trying yeah exactly and they gave us you know We'd make 15 pounds if you're 11 years old you made 15 quid that was a lot so There was part of me that identified as this kind of neboshi kid Yeah, who saw this rising movement of hip-hop? I mean prior to that it was kind of a lecture across the pond.

I was like oh my god that seems amazing Yeah, and we you know fully embraced that we got into the graffiti and the language and so allergy as a result you know, I had a lot of knowledge about early hip-hop and This is quite strange actually talking about this doing American audience. Oh, no great You know some geeky wiker. This is this is the influence that the African-American community had in yeah The early 80s so well now how like is even in this new movie like there was points in the new movie like I sat in the screening room at your editor's office Okay last night. That's not a fun way to watch movie.

You want to have 300 people around you know No, no, I you know, but I got to see that it seems to be the only way but what's interesting Oh, you know in talking about Ali Jean and talking about Borat or any of the stuff that's relatively that's very provocative You know in that very that very take prank way, but you know the underlying story of this thing You know after all is said and done you know after you really I don't want to spoil anything But you do have the biggest dick joke. I think in recorded film history. Thank you Thank you. Do they also have a category for that?

Well, they I think they'll make one Yeah, they're under a lot of fire. Maybe you should just get involved with that Yeah, the story is about a sort of it's in defense of the lower class at sub-level Yeah, you're very you are fighting for the little guy. You know, I think class in England is still an issue. Yeah, so We don't call it that here.

Yes, no class. I mean that's it there is but it's not we don't call it that we just call the people that are Would be categorically lower class. We you know, we've convinced them that you know, just keep working Yeah, and you can be yeah, I request and then they'll they'll think according to that Yeah, I mean, it's interesting here actually because The American dream the brilliant thing about it is that if you're lower class or working class or everyone to describe it You actually want to aspire to be what would be termed in England as upper class because that's the dream Right, so in England you don't really have that aspiration off escaping your class No, you just you're it. Yeah, and there's a pride in being working class Yeah, therefore you have some people who are fake working class people speak in a company accent even though they actually went to eat in You know, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's cool.

Yeah, because they get more credit by being working class But yeah, I mean part of energy if I think about it was there was an attempt subtly to slightly undermine the establishment The establishment at that point was partly upper class Mm-hmm and the idea was if I sit down with this incredibly powerful person and that person indulges me for an hour with the most of the Oddic questions then maybe that person should not be given complete respect Right, so somebody's actually sitting in a room for an hour and believe that guy existed means that maybe you know The populace shouldn't necessarily give that person complete authority, right? You know, so it's a way of slightly pricking the authority It seemed like that was the whole agenda of allergy was to to show that this class difference was real and that there's no Negotiating it. Yeah, they're just going to condescend and they're gonna behave politely and they're gonna hope you go away back to your little Name, right, right? I'm not gonna feel good about himself sure because they talk to you Yeah, I remember I did an interview here with James Lipton from the actor's studio and He started telling me he was very excited to tell me that he'd had African American men over to the house And yeah, too.

Tell me off camera and you know, right barber shop quieters. Yeah Yeah, it's like that that many Bruce bit about how to what is it how to entertain your black friends or parties? The irony was I was completely white and yeah, yeah, but he was trying to get down with allergy sure how much is your Your Jewishness your faith and form your way of thinking. I mean, what how Jewish were you brought up?

I mean you got a hell of a Jewish name. Yeah, Baron Cohen. Well, I don't think that much really I mean, but did you practice was there was there some education? Did you have you know relatives or grandparents that you know that that taught you what it meant to be?

You know the sort of premium put on education and and progressiveness. I mean was that part of your upbringing? Well, that's an interesting That's an interesting question because the thesis that I did at university was all about Jews in the black civil rights movement here I called it the black civil rights room because that was the term they use at times in the 60s Yeah, and the question was you know, why did Jews get involved in the black civil rights movement more than any other ethnicity? Sometimes do you know, they were represented Yeah, I'm only 10 20 times more than they should have been proportionally and the question was was because they were Jews or was it for some other reason and You know my research and my conclusion was basically Jews in America at the time were the most liberal ethnic group And they're probably the most activist group in any liberal political movement So because of the roots in in early socialism and getting out of the sweatshops and in that generation Immigrants that they had they had united to integrate themselves into America.

Yes, so You know you see basically see that the same percentage of Jewish students who involved, you know in the black civil rights movement And then moving on straight from that into the anti-pietnam war movement, right? So pick you know people like Abby Hoffman and you know people like that so and the interesting thing is those People who were Jews didn't get involved as Jews in the civil rights movement They got involved because they were liberals and they're like, you know, there's this racist stuff going on We want to fight it right but for the kind of rest of the Jewish community They were like these Jews are getting involved and you know isn't this great? We're helping black people and we are yes the ones who were middle-class Jews They had no real political affiliation necessarily out among I when really nice at those kids Yeah, but really the kids who were getting involved weren't getting involved as Jews and what I found out was that the African Americans Thought that they were just white people they didn't see these people as Jews right? They were like all right a bunch of white guys are getting involved and we know what their fitness is yeah, and so The question is why people do stuff is it you know because of their racial or ethnic identity or is it something deeper?

So I think you know I didn't get involved in comedy or any of this stuff because I'm a Jew I think there's probably some reason that Jews are over involved in the you know comic community I don't know I mean why are you involved you think it's because you're Jewish? No, but I feel like there was part of my upbringing You know probably because you know I lived here that most of the comics that when I was a kid You know outside of you know SNL and stuff most of the stand-up comics that I gravitated towards where were old Jews Like I liked a lot of the old Jewish guys there was a cultural identification that I found you know compelling that my grandparents generation that there was a type You know the deli type or yeah There was a neurotic type in that that a lot of them seem to have a quick timing that it was all very specifically Jewish and it helped me Sort of identify I think when I was younger I did a Woody Allen play that don't drink the water and I played Walter and I played my buddy You can't it was very easy for me to slip into that yeah because it was you know I wanted it to be tangible to me I wanted that to be part of my cultural heritage Yeah, and it just was by virtue of the fact that you know I grew up in it somewhat you know I identified with it, but I don't know if that's why you know I did you know there was a period where I separated myself from my Jewish identity I refused to talk about being a Jew on stage because I didn't you wouldn't necessarily know I was a Jew immediately I got very annoyed with the stereotype of the Jew. Yeah, sure I didn't want to fall into that now. I'm a little less Worried about it.

Yeah, yeah, like if I'm gonna become an old Jew of some sort. I'll take it. Yeah, exactly I know that your grandparents so part of your family is Israeli right? Yes.

Yeah, my mother is actually like from Israel Yes, yes Yeah, so you have that part because that's a whole different thing than I imagine middle-class British Judaism and certainly from you know middle-class American Judaism the Israeli thing is like This whole other yeah, yeah, it's totally the kind of opposite. Oh, yeah. Yeah, it's tough. Yeah, right.

Yeah, so your mother was a tough Israeli I don't know if she's tough. She's you know, she's a formidable hilarious woman. Yeah, but did you did you do the pilgrimage? Did you go do you go to Israel?

Do you have relatives in Israel? Did you yeah? I've got relatives in Israel. I mean it's interesting because we grew up that side of the family were not into humor yeah, and my dad would go and visit her parents and You know my dad would be making jokes at the time and my late grandfather would get very angry and say stop making these diaspora jokes They asked what yeah, he was a German they were German.

Yeah, and very very German. You know they were extremely into culture very precise German Jews are a little heavy. Yeah, they're tough. They were not well my late grandmother who only died last year actually she was Apparently she was the oldest keep fit teacher in the world.

So this keep in is a tradition Yeah, exactly So I actually did a video online if you look up 99 year old keep fit teacher That was my late grandma who died last year and somebody once asked her, you know, you know, they took her to Bruno Yeah, see the movie Bruno I don't know why the hell my cousin said that and she saw her and she said why I didn't like it and they go all What kind of human do you like and she said ballet? And that really is the German Jewish answer, you know Yeah, they they are not into human I think it's the the Jews that were in England and America our way of of coming with everything is making jokes, but not only coping but Integrating yeah, I mean that you know, I think that's a lot of what like, you know What happened was that you know, Jews were not really welcome But eventually people realize like when you're not pretty smart and you know they seem to have a handle on some shit Yeah, so we're gonna have to tolerate them somehow So I think that like I didn't realize that in the 20s there was a bunch of Jewish boxers Yes, like in that you know, any way that they could integrate, you know So you know they could either pass or at least have a community within what America was at that time They would do it. Yeah, and entertainment seemed to be like it was very insulated and then it sort of branched out And everybody thought that you was funny. Yeah, so you never really moved here.

I mean here to LA I mean you sort of mostly live in London. So we're here. I mean we're here We're here probably half the year Yeah, and then the way it works is we're off filming somewhere for three months a year and then three months a year in London You know, did you ever end up studying acting or any part of performance? Yeah, I did I did when I was in university.

I came up with this character called Soli. He was a he was an idiot Yeah, he's like my first kind of real character Yeah, and I came up with it one night and I had my roommate came back I want to play this tape and he started really laughing hard and a friend of mine in the sort of acting group in university said he'd just gone to this to this clown course run by this guy called Philip Goliare famous, right? He's like the clown teacher in the world people people sort of traveled from around the world to see him He was part of this school called l'Cock Yeah, exactly that's what the word comes from and so I decided all right Let me try and find out whether this idiotic character is doing is actually a clown character I want to kind of learn about it and so I end up I left university and started with this guy for a long over about six months really Yeah, and was it amazing? Oh incredible.

This is this guy is the legendary guru for any Personally wants to be a professional idiot around the world So he teaches pure clown and he teaches this other style of comedy called buffong or buffoon. Yeah, have you heard of that? Yes, it's like it's a really interesting. It's this medieval style of kind of satire So like your your sidekick in Borat is sort of buffoon.

Yeah. Yeah, and his theory because I went to my clown teacher afterwards You know Philip Goliare said yeah, I'm doing clown and he goes no your buffong. Okay, really? I'm buffoon and he goes So those that style was so there was this kind of in the you know, I think sort of 11th the 15th century Yeah, you'd have a bunch of outcasts from society Who would you know gaze here at it priests Jews people with deformities would be told to live outside of Villages, you know, they're you know, sort of in the forests or you know in They're deformed or yeah, or yeah, or freaks of some measure then once a year they were let back into the villages or towns and they would be allowed to put on booth on place and So you'd have like some guy who was you know three and a half foot tall Yeah, would pretend to be the king of France and do a booth on plate under the front and the idea the aim of the Buffon was that the king of France would watch the booth on plate.

Yeah, and go that's not me. That's not me That's not me. That's a guy's the tiny is and he's three foot tall and you know the three foot tall I go we're talking about I am the king I am the king I am the king I am the king and the king I'm not the king I am the king and eventually the king would have a heart attack and die and then the booth on We'll go that's one for me. And so it's a really nasty form of satire It's really kind of horror.

It's the kind of humor of the dispossessed Uh-huh and I ended up using the technique a little bit in the publicity campaign for ball wrap Uh-huh when it came to I ended up hosting the MTV Awards in Europe as ball wrap Yeah, there was one little sketch I did where the president of Kazakhstan comes onto the stage and to show my respect I got down on my knees and I kissed his crotch Anyway, the governor of Kazakhstan then complained to MTV and they can paint the British government and There was kind of a complaint to Fox as well. You said you're gonna stop making this movie and then that point I realized okay, there's an opportunity. You know they were just going hop down this man be a real gazak's down He's my star. She's still big in Kazakhstan.

I'm a star. She's a small. Yeah, so they kind of wrote this letter to the British Did you work for you? Yeah, exactly.

So I realized all right. Okay. All right. This reminds me actually of the kind of theory of Bufa So when it came to the promotion of ball wrap I heard that the president of Kazakhstan was coming to America So I said all right, I'm going to Washington and the student freak tale about you're not going to Washington You're not making this movie political.

Yeah, I said well, you know what I own the character I'm going to Washington so when Washington and we found out I decided I wanted to do a press conference outside the Kazakhstan embassy Claiming to be the representative of Kazakhstan. Yeah, and so obviously they found out we were coming So we did some recon and found out that we had like a 15 minute window when the president of Kazakhstan be heading to the White House So in that 15 minutes we jumped there We called with the press there and I delivered this press conference. Yeah saying you know I want to sell the help of Kazakhstan that the jewel calm him have met the mockery He have said some terrible rumors about our country like that we have democracy and it leads women respectfully of course is a scarless lies and Then it's resolved that the governor Kazakhstan did a publicity campaign They hired a PR company and said right we're gonna do a PR campaign to show that Kazakhstan is a great place And they put about 30 million bucks into promoting the real Kazakhstan However for the audience the audience were watching these TV ads and they thought I'd put the TV ads on right You know they were so ridiculous. Yeah, don't the Kazakhstan will have a fantastic potassium deposits You know they were so ridiculous and so they ended up really promoting the movie But it was really using that that's hilarious and did you why'd you pick Kazakhstan was I mean there was nothing about Kazakhstan?

I mean originally Borat had a kind of different name and he was from a different country And then he went to Albania and it kind of his name in the country came from change according to whichever company I was working for So what we've learned here, you know, it essentially is that despite whatever distance you may take from your creativity You know in you know initially right which is sort of like I don't know It's gonna is that you know both with Ali G and with Borat you were very sort of decisive and intelligent about utilizing spriticular modes of satire to to achieve these ends Yes, and you know, it's still the great. Yes. Yes. So now please tell me about the difference between between clowning and buffen So beautiful because it seems to me that this six months at the clown college.

What's it the cock? Yeah? Was was really what opened you up creatively? Yeah?

I love it because people were coming from around the world and this guy Philip Goliay would sit there with a little drum. Yeah, and if you weren't funny hit the drum and you'd go off really? Yeah, and it was only with physicality or could you talk? Yeah, you can talk as well.

I can talk it was kind of talking clown and you know, you're all red nose you did you already knows and So somebody would start bursting into tears. You know, they'd flown all the way from Australia Yeah, they'd walk on stage and within three seconds He hits the drama they have to sit down and he would let me go on stage on this for 15 minutes And so the rest of the class start hating me Yeah, and me and this guy from Sweden would have this kind of double act where we never would do the exercises Which stay on we wouldn't understand if you hit the drum and say get off you get off the stage right now You are big your bad student going sit on the chair for the bad student and you know I just understand it. No good student. You know, and we did this kind of carry I didn't know what was going on as it's kind of surreal experience Never had explained what was going on but over those six months I kind of found got confidence in doing this kind of style of comedy So I suppose the difference is Bufa is this nasty knowing form of satire the game is to undermine the establishment right and clown is a more simple and Loving character.

So the clown is the simpleton who has the naivety of a child and is as stupid as a child It's the reason why for three-year-old kid walks into a room everyone loves. Yeah, it's because the kid is saying really stupid things Yeah, but in a very nice sweet way and that really is what the clown is doing You know, so the rule with clown is if this character was one degree more stupid hit probably be dead Right because he wouldn't be able to survive across the road or so. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. So aligee was that guy who but you know You you can sort of believe this guy exists Yeah, well, you it seems to me that you've created hybrids of these two characters I'm like Borac it sort of go either way. Yeah, exactly and I thought I knew what I was talking about I went to the clown's he said no, you got to completely wrong. Yeah, it's interesting Yeah, and then like Bruno is is also a hybrid, but this guy in the Grimsby movie is sort of almost great clown.

Yeah, way Yes, yeah, he's more for simple to know. I mean, I mean, I know I'm being you know I'm narrow by using these these titles or these labels But I mean coming from what you come from you know in that's how you sort of learn how to Learn your comedic craft. Yes, you know along these lines But are also somehow able to integrate a full of seemingly a full emotional psychological life Which would be the actor in you into these clowns and buffals. Yes interesting.

So what listen me using the word interesting Rendous. Oh, you just use the way to full. Yeah, I'm excited about that Now I guess my question then is that you know after obviously you played out the ability to efficiently or at least stealthily Prank because of your notoriety and it feels like it's been a bit since you've done something like that With those three characters. Was there ever a thought of like, you know using prosthetics or continuing that tradition or just something you exhausted?

You know, I miss it. I miss the adrenaline and I miss the you know those sketches were kind of pure comedy Yeah, you go out with a pure comic idea and you see can I make it happen? Yeah, but I think it will be impossible to really get away with those characters anymore, right mind you on Friday I did a little piece I went out as myself as a kind of PVC reporter asking people what they thought of Sachete-Baren Cohen movies Well, you know you wanted every sort of thought didn't really know it was me right and you know some people got really rolled up one person called me a Cump. Oh, yeah Well, I mean like as I talked to you and the more I realized that how much of of the drive of these characters You know the prank characters was to to push the first amendment to write a line with that and to push this idea because in the new movie the level of of I don't even like the word crafts, but you know extraordinarily graphic Graphically executed filthy jokes.

Yes, that's my special. Yeah, but it is it you love it. Yeah, I don't know why I blame Python. I blame Python.

You do you play like a brain. I remember meaning of life. Oh with the back Yeah, the fact that it was it was shocking but funny and I For some reason that they did drawn to that and I know it alienates a lot of the audience And I'm always stuck with that question of do I broaden the audience and make this kind of family movie Which all the other comedians do or do I narrow the audience? Well, I think what you get when you do it your way is You get the possibility of Here's the one downside of it even with some of the prank movies is that you're going to get people who are smart and are willing to be open-minded enough to indulge even the most dramatically crass satire and that type of Over-the-topness has always been part of satire.

You know to push it. It's almost swiftly and you know or you're both aware any of them where you know Everything is just you know that things are ripping at the seams and you think there's blood and guts and goo and but but I think that the liability of it You're gonna get a lot of you know morons like oh shit You fucking out his face. Yeah, but so on some on that level it is approaching appealing to a broad audience Yeah, just not kids. Yeah, again, you know, maybe morons.

Yes. Yeah, not there I don't like to yeah, I don't like to discriminate. That's more on well. No, but the whole news about that.

Yeah, it's about not discriminating. It's more Yeah, exactly exactly and what's that guy's name of place your brother? He's a mark strong like he's like an action movie Yeah, he's a complete well the idea with this movie was let's make it a completely authentic action movie and my character accidentally falls into it Let's keep the genre rather than doing a parody or an action comedy. Let's make it an action movie that has some really funny stuff And so you went all the way you went all out with that sequence that opening scene that introduces the action movie was like holy shit Yeah, so we thought like because that was some of the action companies I didn't really like that they go right.

Let's do a little bit of action and then let's get a second news director in and it's good enough Yeah, and you know when we've been doing any of these movies like ball wrap Yeah, we wanted it to be an authentic documentary that unfortunately has this idiot Kazakhstan a reporter in the middle of it Yeah, so the idea was there's this authentic action that could rival, you know, like a cool action movie, right? Right, but sash around co-insan it. Did you direct it? Oh, no We had Louis Littario who's this action director and he's like a full-on hardcore action director to get that kind of authenticity Right and it's there and the funny thing is playing the comedy against that or integrating the two there's some sort of like goofy turns Yes, but but it's still once you bite it can see you kind of go with it Yeah, and then you wait for the next like you know what the fuck yeah, you know that that with the with the what's your name?

So the day cap raise though. Yes, they go from precious. Yeah, yeah, like you know that there's a moment there We're like is this right or wrong. Yes.

Yeah, and I but what what's unique to you is that somehow or another? You know, there's more on this fool, you know is endearing you know in the midst of all this stuff that you know He has this weird kind of earnestness to him and all those guys who play his friends in the town and everything It's all it's definitely very python in a way. Yeah, so what do you want to do me? I mean do you want to stay doing comedy?

Do you have a desire to do straight acting? I mean I know like people make a comparison to you and sellers and you haven't mentioned sellers Do you have you take that comparison like either? It's gonna be Andy Kaufman or Peter Sellers? I think well Sellers would be the greatest comparison I could ever get I mean he I'd say it was you know Python for the Laughout Loud extremity, but Sellers was the inspiration in that I think he's the greatest comedic actor He's the commitment yeah the commitment and the believability of the characters in the subtlety yeah, but yet they were still hilarious You never doubted that Cluzo could exist right there's no wink to the camera and I mean apparently a horrible man But what a performer and what a position is it I mean?

Yeah, I thought he was kind of inspirational so if I could get any comparison with him I'd be amazingly pleased And what was the movie of his that you know really sort of was it cool so that made you sort of like as a kid It was clue so yeah, and I think they had strange love and then being there was amazing You know this kind of subtle yeah, that kind of is a clown performance Yeah, it is he's out of it and he's misinterpreted and yeah, and he's a child Yeah, he's a man child yeah, he's a man child and what about their comparisons to Andy's do you do you why didn't grow up watching Careful and in England he wasn't really popular so when I came here then I got sent some of his DVDs and there's right stuff Yeah, yeah, I feel in a way He's probably more of an artist than I am in that I don't think he cared what the audience thought and I really deep down I want to make people laugh and that's why I fight to get stuff to be funny Yeah, yeah big big laughs in the audience and I'll go to war With whichever studio has been student stupid enough to pay me money to make a movie so you know They probably hate me at Sony because they care why are you still fighting for these gags? You know but once I love a gag and once I fall think I've got to get this on screen I will fight to the nail to get the gag on screen right? There's a lot of gags Yeah, yeah, and did yeah at the end there was a disclaimer Daniel Radcliffe had nothing to do with the movie nothing to do with the movie You put him in there we suck him in there. Yeah in Trump as well Donald Trump makes an appearance a movie We won't say what happens no no that was either of them we have to say what happens either I actually I interviewed him once as Ali G and I remember being in his office and he kept me waiting I think about an hour and a half Which is fine, but during that time he was screaming so loudly it's like get me give me the mayor Do you have the phone give me the man?

Yeah? He's like this kind of bad villain. Yeah in a cheap bat in a bad Batman movie Mm-hmm. Yeah screaming at Julianna on the phone.

I just was an incredible character. I can believe he existed Yeah, yeah, we does in a big way right now. I mean could he be president? I don't think so I don't think so now I don't think I mean it'd be great for comedians and great for salaries but terrible for the world But I think it's sort of a testament to you know sort of what we were talking about sort of you know mining the anger of the disenfranchised to to make them complicit in in a momentum that will ultimately betray them yes, and he's able to do that That's the there was a line in the dictator at the end of the dictator the guy plays the I mean I play the dictator but Admiral General I think does this speech about dictatorships and one of the lines is I think as I remember it's you know We can get bored of people to vote against their interests You know, they're you know one of the great things you can do in dictatorships and it's what clever politicians end up doing You know, which is vote for me I'm gonna look after your interest which is yeah, which are policies which prevent you from getting money, right?

You know exactly yeah, so that was in the dictator. Yeah, there was some speech then I should remember it But I can't really write it yes Yes I mean I read it was actually Adam McKay had the idea for that speech and then I I was kind of reading a lot of stuff at that time There were a lot of riots going on in England off the kind of distant franchise Yeah, and there was the occupy Wall Street moving the time so it kind of influenced that speech Do you want to do more serious stuff or what? I don't know. There's not really a plan no the plan I live joke to joke really you know I really do I kind of you know think of an idea for a movie and then how do I make it as funny as I can and then how do I make The movie happen and it's unfortunately continually a battle trying to get that stuff on screen now I feel like studios particularly post the North Korean hack are a lot more conservative in what they'll put on screen I think listen I think the sad thing about the North Korean hack with Sony was you know It's a way for totalitarian states that have no freedom of speech to extend the spear of their influence Yeah, so you know one of the great reasons why America is a great country is your freedom of speech How do you prevent freedom of speech?

You have totalitarian states threaten the people who control and create entertainment with acts of terrorism And say all right you do anything that's gonna upset us. We're gonna shut your movie We're gonna shut your studio down. We're gonna threaten to bomb your cinemas. Yeah, so now in the back of studios minds They don't want to do anything to upset any incredibly powerful force whether it's North Korea You know I wonder whether given this political climate Whether if I was you know a comedian from the L.E.G.

show and some you know niche HBO show I said listen I want to I walked into Fox today and said listen I want to make a movie about Kazakhstan. I wonder whether the heads of Fox would say yeah Yeah, we're doing the movie, but we're not using a real country right that country's gonna go and you know attack us right? I wonder yeah, I know I think there is you know studios now I don't want to sound like the kind of liberal Jew but studios now are generally owned by multinationals and They want to risk they want to risk as little as they can and minimize liability So the problem with that is Sunlight Bora, it's a crazy experiment I mean it was a mad experiment and it could only exist with a student that said here listen his 40 million bucks go and do it This guy will make 40 million bucks in Europe and it's gonna die. We're still gonna make 40 million bucks Yeah, we're fine.

Yeah, we're fine You know but you need to do something that's new yeah, you need to have you know You need to have heads of students who feel confident and you know I think that answers yeah I think the heads of the students are you know good people who are talented and they and I think a lot of them love movies and love art Yeah, but their hands are slightly tied now by these you know legal departments in the you know in the multinationals that control them Right, right, right this movie feels like right out of the gate like the new movie the the Grimm's be brothers Gonna be I said is that like right out of the gate? I thought like this sort of a British movie Yeah, I think like do you feel like it that you made it like a little bit for the British? Oh, yeah, it's for England, you know But at the end of the beginning Borat was a kind of Kazakhstan movie as well, so we thought listen when we thought we thought we thought no One was gonna ever see Borat. I mean it was a movie back a Kazakhstan a document area.

Yeah, so who's gonna how do you sell that? Oh, come on, you know that guy that was a great character. I knew it was a good character But I didn't think anyone would watch it and we had anti-Semitic content in it We thought no one would ever go and say huge. Yeah, and how do your parents feel about your work?

I think they like it I think they you know sometimes it's embarrassing for them But generally they're fully supportive and I couldn't really have done any of it without their lesson what's embarrassed them? I think they found Bruno quite extreme which it was I mean, yeah I can't believe actually in retrospect that a major studio released that movie I mean it had a 35 second close-up of the man's penis Yeah, you know it should have really been an art house movie that got released in yeah Did you get into some trouble with a group of guys to where you almost got your ass kicked? Then Bruno. Yes, I got I got there a few different, you know, I almost got killed in Jerusalem actually ironically by a bunch of cussids And then there are a few different incidents I went hunting with a bunch of guys who once they realized I was gay there was some line where we're around this campfire We're on this in this kind of private hunting estate with have camp hunts Yeah, and I look into this kind of car look at all the stars up there Really just reminds it was a hot guy's sense of well doesn't it and there was a silence then from these three guys Who realized they're with the gay guy yeah, and I'm going camping with them And I'm gonna you know be in a tent next to this they then get up they take their rifles and they load their rifles They put ammo in their rifles and my I had a researcher there and I go What's going on?

It goes they've you know loaded their rifles like a wine and he goes well They've said that they're bores here, you know and they don't want any animals to kind of attack them at night But then I knew the rest of the scene was I was gonna have to go naked into one of their tents and try and get into their tent And sleep with the guy and so they could have shot you think it was an animal Yeah, I mean there's a law in Arkansas in a few other places I think it's called King of the Castle which is when you're on your own private property if you shoot someone It's very very hard to sue them right already yet to get legal action. Yes. Yes exactly. So you didn't go into the tent No, I did actually you know I think you had I had at that point this dilemma I was gonna Larry Charles the director, you know, and I'm still you know I'm I have to thank characters the whole time and he's going you want to do this You know Bruno you want to do this and there's a part of me which is alright This is maybe a little bit risky then there's the other part which is I need it for the movie I've come all this way.

I'm in a field in the middle of Arkansas at two in the morning Let's finish the scene, you know, it doesn't seem like a crazy risk It seems like a small risk. There's cameras. They're still people their people and their cameras They are really gonna if they shoot me they're gonna have to shoot the whole crew, right? Are they really gonna do that?

So what's the likelihood of that? Probably one in a hundred right? You know, am I ready to take a one hundred risk 99% risk? It's gonna be fine.

Yeah, so they happen to like that you really felt threatened Well, I think particularly in Bruno because it's a different type of former prejudice So you have like anti-Semitism you have racism But you know homophobia means fear off the homosexual. Yeah, and where there's fear that can turn into violence so People who don't like gay people are scared of them and can you know that can transition into violence pretty quickly It's like threatening on a it seems to be threatening on a more core primitive level exactly So there was a recent study actually where they showed people pictures off naked men and they found out that the Homophobes who are most likely to use violence or use violent language against gay people with those who had some increase in Tumescence and blood flow to their groin. Yeah, while show it's being seen interesting Yeah, so it's guys who are struggling with their sexuality who are gonna go out and right right okay guys Right, so we would you know, how does that affect us in a kind of real way? So we'd go you know, let's maybe not struggling, but not you know not willing to allow it in them Yes, like it doesn't necessarily mean that they're probably gay just means like they're attracted for whatever reason But that can't even live inside them.

Well, there's a you know the thing about being straight okay They're kind of silly terms because you know, it's a scale so everyone is somewhere on the scale right? I'm 23% go. Yeah, you figure that out. Yeah, I've worked it out.

We did other calculations 23% go You know, I have been there's a good time. I got down to 17 I got up to 31 when I was in ball right and I have the you know testicles on my chin I was up to 31 and then a couple movie. Yeah, but everyone exactly it's a theme to motif and But you know, so everyone's on that scale somewhere sexual. It's like being black or white black or some people who I'll be known as a Gla, yeah, but generally people are on that scale and that's why you know, it's difficult for people But so that how that affects us in a real way was let's say I'm in Texas You know, I know I want to go into a bar it's a bike a bar and I'm I've just finished with my boyfriend I want to get laid that night Right and so I want to make out one of the guys I want to take them back home and have sex with them in the movie Yeah, and so we'll have like a guy who's a cop with us who we paid it's a great thing about America You can pay cops to help you so we'll go to bar you obviously want to go to a rough bar and you say yeah, okay Give us some of the figures off.

You know have there ever been any homicides in this bar How many when was the last homicide who committed the homicide are they behind bars? You know are there any guys in there with kind of serious, you know criminal histories who could be a problem So you try and limit the amount of risk you don't want to go and die You want to go and survive and do a funny joke, right? So there's always what I'm always trying to do is get the funniest joke with a bit of it can be edgy But you're trying to limit the possibility that something bad can happen for you or the creek right so that's really that or the volatility of the subject That you know like it's weird like when I had a conversation about with my producer about that in most cases that the people that were you know The the pawns in this thing, you know that that were being duped somehow Usually, you know on one side of another we're trying to behave properly. Yeah, that was what's really interesting It's a yeah within whatever scope they could they wanted to be accommodating and polite.

Yes And apart from imprino that was more because the character Was more unlikable right? Unlike we thought okay, we got to put him increasingly. Yeah, hey that guy immediately whether he's gay or not He's just annoying yeah, and he's like you don't know like for an American You don't really know where he's from either and and the fact that like there were actually people that you could find that didn't know He was gay immediately is baffling like they're they're experienced with with with that Vlam point the character who is clearly out in and there's no way you cannot you know what I mean? Yeah, well, I was just thinking about that we did one interview that never made the air with this neo-Nazi guy Who actually I think it's on death right now he ended up a couple years ago going and trying to shoot some People each murdered three people in some Jewish community.

Oh my god and we went and interviewed him and the idea was I was going there and I was you know give him publicity for his little neo-Nazi organization, huh and You know you got a get celebrities and pop why don't you get vodialum to be the head of your organization? because Woody Allen is a Jew and The idea was I'd go into his place and at some point my assistant would give me a weak-rost shot and accidentally He dropped the weak-rost shot on my white trousers and I'd have to take my white trousers off This is a dodge and gabana. Yes, this is worth five thousand euros go on find a fucking dry cleaner now and get them dry clean And so I would have to do the rest of the interview in my G string Yeah with this neo-Nazi guy and you know having taken around and eventually I got you know Show me I want to know how Monday Nazi live show me around the house come on This is a crayops, you know and eventually took me into his bedroom and I'm there in my G string and my boyfriend in The movie you runs in and goes okay. I see you guys are still paying Yeah, you just sucked his dick and I can what are talking about that?

I've been knows that at all. I guess why are you in your G string with this guy in his bedroom explain yourself and this guy obviously got a little bit angry and Threatened and try to punch the other guy and But I'm saying not funny not in the end It was too extreme because the problem is if you get something who's that full of hate You actually don't you feel uncomfortable in the room and you feel uncomfortable actually watching them on screen right? so uncomfortable because It's threatening or because it's fucking tragic well their tragic there You're giving them ultimately a platform for their vicious disgusting right views right and sometimes the era of underlying violence And I could censor this guy He'd already just come out jail for some plots over through government and try to blow up some building right and his whole place was full Machine guns and ammunition in the kitchen. Yeah, you know that somebody's pretty extremely damn in the kitchen It was just an unpleasant air about the whole movie right yeah, but in there so that that's adrenaline tipping towards the negative Yes, exactly now I remember him showing me photos are on the fire I was like who's that guy goes that guy's my son?

I remember looking at the Sun I go that Sun is gonna come after me at some point and then a week afterwards We heard that the Sun had been shot dead by police. He shot a police officer So you were in real evil we were in really but this was a bad guy right right you sense that sometimes I think so you know I've had the unfortunate experience of being around some people who who were kind of really bad people yeah And they never really make it to you know the sunscreen. Yeah, yeah, I can imagine it So how do you exit a situation like that like okay? Thank you?

No well it turned violent and I ended up trying to protect my guy playing my boyfriend because he he was he'd never been in one of these situations beforehand and so situation or either a moose is first movie in his first undercover and mean situation and suddenly there's this guy trying to say I'm gonna kick you in the face you know and For a situation like that we hire a you know you hire a kind of bodyguard right and you know There's a certain amount they can do so we hire a guy and his job is He's a bit like nobody actually he's like this northern blog and his job his job is to prevent me from being arrested Because once I was arrested it would mean that I couldn't get back into the country and get a visa so we're in Kansas and The police find out that I'm there and we do a few things and police go okay anything else you know we're gonna arrest him and they let us know and So we still have to do a few bits so we're in this hotel room and there's a bit in Bruno where I Wake up I get drunk after failing in this bike about to make love to anyone I end up drunk with my assistant We wake up and we were in this room in this hotel room and we chained to each other in this kind of S&M kind of crazy gear Yeah, he's got a toilet brush in his mouth and there is you know There's feces made on the wall and it's a pretty extreme room. There's a there's a pedal powered fucking machine in the corner Yeah, and it's disgusting room's disgusting. We called down to I'm freaked out. I've made love to my to my assistant who I hate Yeah, he's the guy at the end who I end up making love to I it's a wrong comment Sure, and so we called down and I get the manager up I need to get you know, it's anyone got a key and they come into the room and they see all this disgusting stuff in the room And they call the cops and so immediately when the cops are called this guy's job is to get me out off the hotel without getting arrested Because we know the cancer's police have made it clear So we always have an escape van and the escape van is waiting in the alleyway at the back And we have an escape route and his plan is he like unlocks us and we start running to the service elevator getting the service elevator which doors are closing suddenly the hotel security open the doors and they say get out and We've got the police downstairs.

They're arriving. We run away from them. Stop running down the fire You know the staircase run down we're on the 17th floor and the security guys like follow me follow me come on follow me And we're running down this corridor and I'm in you know G string and my friends go You know my co-stars got this toilet brush from his mouth And you know still got chains in this extreme s&m outfit and they're kind of guys painting this you know the 17th floor of this Kansas hotel He's go go on run run and he's we run we run to the end of the corridor and I go where are we going? It goes there's the cops downstairs out the window get out I go out He lives open the window and there's a Rickety old fire escape He goes get out out so we will stop running down this Rickty old fire escape dressing this crazy and s&m stuff We get down and fire escapes in Kansas.

They only get down right? They have to drop the yes Yeah, so we couldn't drop the steps were down to the you know like 15 drive a ladder right? I think we're 10 feet or 12 feet. I'm like how do we get I can see the getaway car yeah, and He goes jump like a white goes jump So they're these two African American ladies who like having a little cigarette break and from their heavens appears Me I jump in front of them wearing it kind of heels and this crazy s&m stuff And then my friend with the toilet brush in his mouth.

I crack I break my heel and we jump into the car with the van this is we get out of the state, you know, we always have to get out of the state and You know unfortunately we have to shut down the movie because this idiot and maybe jump out of a bloody 10 foot fire escape I broke my my hair. I broke my hair. We shut down for three months So now it's one of the reasons why you don't do this anymore because maybe your wife said you know I want you to die for a fucking joke. Yes.

Yeah, yeah, that's part Again a lot of these stories are in I want you end up in jail because of a fucking joke Well, once I'm in New York We ended up doing a bunch of stuff on ball right in the same. I think it was It was a precinct. It was all to do around the park, you know Madison and Park. Yeah, I don't know really know But it's all from West side.

Yeah, it's kind of a very the fancy area of New York Yeah, you know Central Park kind of area unfortunately that was all within one precinct Yeah, and so they kept on getting police reports that we're there and One point we did one scene where ballerat You know goes into a hotel he has to leave and I take my bag and I take all the furniture out the room As well they called the cops and the the police I don't know whatever you call him captain in charge of that precinct knew it was me I was getting increasingly frustrated and that's a really bad thing to do you don't want to piss off some police guys So he decided he's getting me arrested and what they did was Police are on their way. I disappear as always what they did was they arrested the Producer of the movie and the assistant director They took them into the cells and she you know, she was like a 31-year-old woman Monica Levinson And the assistant director actually you know, he's a real gentleman He said I'm gonna go with you to jail and they gave her a rough night and then we get a call which was Sasha comes down. We release everyone and we call up my lawyer the guy with the in India in India and he's like It's a trap there you want to arrest you and they're gonna get publicity of the other guys who arrested LEG and You have to get out of state now, so you know, I get back to the hotel and I go baby We're gonna get out of the state now. We're gonna get out, you know pack pack pack Let's go.

So you wait. Yeah, so there are a couple of times over the years where she had to you know, you know She came down once and set we had a baby at the time and she's like I'm gonna visit my husband on set and And I think we were in Alabama and there was a Cop chase they were chasing me in a van and I developed this technique of being able to direct the driver while being on the floor like okay Tell me what's in front of you go right go left. Oh, and so there's a cop chase and she's listening in on the walkie-talkie and we had a baby It was like, oh, I'm not visiting anymore, you know, we had one time when I was doing ball wrap where I'm interviewing this woman in the house in Tennessee and I go excuse me only can I please use your level there is as you know, and I go to the bathroom and I come back out after 10 minutes I'm wearing her town. Yeah, and using her toothbrush.

I had a shower in my hair's wet Yeah, and she calls the police and she throws me out of the good fair enough. Yeah, I don't blame her Yeah, she throws me out of the room locks the front door and I'm outside the door But she's got my costume Borat's only costume inside and I've got her property which is her town and I hear the cop cars coming They get it closer and closer and I can what do I do what I do because if I take I run in the car, it's theft So anyway, I ended up sort of jumping in the car and we had to negotiate the police took costume and they got the car Yeah, and I'm thinking yeah, we made a exchange and I'm on the floor going what do I do to return the town because again India? Yeah, the guy in India. Yeah, where's that movie during Kansas one time again?

This is after the just before the day of breaking the heel Yeah, and we decide there's this this group called God hates facts. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah not a nice family and So again the cops say they knew we're there they know we were in Kansas and they go all right We're resting Sasha. We know he's there and God hates facts heard out that heard that I was gonna do something against them We knew they were doing a demonstration and the cops say all right they they let our cop know we see him He's arrested and that's it and they shut down the movie so I really need the scene and I'm thinking what do I do here, you know and You know our cop says they've given you a warning a fair warning. Yeah, you should leave the state now and I go all right What I wanted to do is They found out that the cops were circling the God hate fangs demonstrated.

Yeah, so I said all right time How long we've got between every circle they time in it's like three minutes 30 seconds. Yeah, so I go all right What we're gonna do is when they pass the God hates facts, you're gonna drop me off at that moment when they cross Pass the corner so we're out of house. I say you're doing a recon So we've got like three minutes or two minutes 50 Do what and you're and I'm gonna do a quick little sketch You know and then I want another car that's waiting and I'll go from one car to the other car So and somebody needs to kind of give me, you know hold up things like 30 seconds You know and so we did it we managed to do the sketch and jump in and we had like a a bond lawyer hiding in the bushes in case I was arrested to get me out on you know on bail immediately Just trying to think what this feels like it's just sort of like you know that you definitely The balance you had to strike and this weird relationship you have with the law and then them knowing you on top of that And not willing to indulge you like even knowing that like if you're gonna walk out with furniture motel You're gonna bring it back. Yeah, but but the hotels like we don't want to indulge his fuck.

Yeah running a business here I'm not our job to be his fucking you know, so you had to negotiate all this and yet do these little recon's that you know How are you gonna beat the the fucking excitement of that? Yeah, you can't it's hard for me That's why I do a lot of improv on set now and a lot of yeah, and are there states you can't go back to I think only Sedona it's only technically I'm a felon in Sedona I think other states are kind of fine. I mean we're gonna rush in a couple weeks which will be interesting that's my first time back since doing ball rat and after ball rat the Prime Minister of Kazakhstan Nashapaya if you contacted the British Prime Minister Tony Blair that time you then later on admitted to me Nashapaya said all right. I want you to stop this guy from releasing someone want you to end ball rat and He said listen, it's not a dictatorship here.

I can't like it do that And then there's some I got a tiny bear about it. Yeah, Tony Blair contacted me about Year after he had to leave office. Yeah, and he said, you know, you put me in a difficult position because we were doing trade with Kazakhstan and You made me, you know, you kind of embarrassed me. He feels quite funny.

Yeah, so that's the before yeah, exactly There you are yeah, and you're going back to Russia So we're going back to Russia to promote the movie base the first time I've gone there since mmm Which will be interesting if I don't come back be horrible if you got arrested now. Yeah, it's after it's all said and done Yeah, exactly Well, I got invited to Kazakhstan during the promotion stuff before because they realized at one point. Let's embrace him Fox got worried that I was Because they were kind of death threats and yeah, so they had like specialist security who were basically usually complete morons Yeah, you know some guy was swimming in Sydney during the publicity to and this guy didn't know I was gonna go swimming and he starts walking in his full Clothes into the into the water, you know, so these guys who trained in the army to look after I'm not like in goal So they did like a security assessment of me going to Kazakhstan They said it's impossible to secure you because even if one in ten people wants to hurt you. Yeah, you just come on Yeah, so you can't do it.

No, all right. Well, take care of yourself. We thank you very much. Well, listen now.

I'm doing kind of straight ahead You know, yeah, it's a movie. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

What school says you don't get in trouble. Right, right? Right. Right.

Would you do it? I did this movie called Hugo. Oh, that's right. That's a big movie.

Yeah, but you're I'm feeling like I think the only thing that's gonna Really stop you from doing this shit again eventually will be your family. Yes. Yeah, it's good to talk to you Well, thank you very much for having me on indulging me and letting me swear out all these long stories that are great Probably a slightly repetitive actually no one's hurt him. No one's hurt them.

You're right by them. They're on a theme on They're not know we covered a lot of stuff and this is a really nice long interview on as a pleasure talking. Yeah, pleasure being a good coffee actually Good. Thank you, man.

Right So I should Baron Cohen couldn't get him to stop talking I didn't want to but he was he was ready. Maybe it was that coffee. I should remember what that coffee was You can also go to wtfpod.com for all your wtf pod needs I uh, you know, posters stuff things up. I'll play a little guitar