How long is this episode of WTF with Marc Maron Podcast?

This episode is 1 hour and 33 minutes long.

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This episode was published on February 29, 2016.

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Episode 685 - Scott Ian - WTF with Marc Maron Podcast

All right, let's do this. How are you, what the fuckers? What the fuck buddies? What the fuck stirs?

How are you? It's me, Mark Maron. This is WTF, my podcast. My guest is Scott Ian of Anthrax today.

Anthrax, new record for all kings is available now. Scott's book, I'm the man, the story of that guy from Anthrax recently came out in paperback. Great guy. You know, and I admittedly am not a guy that knows a lot about metal, but God, I learned it.

I love this guy. I love Scott Ian. I've met him. I'll talk about this one.

Bring him up. Bring him up. Where am I? Comedy Club?

Holy shit. I'm taping a little later than usual tonight on Sunday night because I watched the Oscars because as some of you know, as people who've been listening to the show perhaps for years, I I do enjoy to suspend any knowledge I have of show business and the personalities involved with show business and the actual business of show business and a lot of other things. I want to believe in the magic of movie stars, and I do. I try to.

I try to, but something is fading. I never thought I'd want less transparency when it comes to the truth of a particular business, but in a business that manufactures fantasies and powerful illusions that reveal important truths and elevate the human spirit and heart, I want to know less about it. I don't really want to hear all the jokes about the millions of dollars people make, and I wouldn't have minded a couple more dance numbers, and I do like to not know a lot about about my movie stars. I have this reverence for old Hollywood.

Even though those people were probably just as rich and just as horrible as some of the people that exist there now, somehow or another, I just, I feel like I know too much now. I feel like I can't be charmed anymore until I actually get a nice laugh out of my friend Louie, or I get a nice laugh out of my recent guests, Sasha Baron Cohen and Chris Rock and Tina Fey and Gosling and Crow were good. I never thought I'd miss song and dance numbers, but it's interesting the experience he had. There was something, let me try to get around to this.

So I was at a comedy store Saturday night. I'll just roll you through it, and you know, Chris Rock had been running a set there for about a week or so. I'd run into him a couple of times. I'd watch bits and pieces of it, but I usually just go in, do my work, and get out.

Now on Saturday night, this was an exciting night. Louie was in town Saturday night. He was doing two shows, running a new material at the comedy store in the main room. He does that on the, you know, he'll just announce a couple days before and sell out the main room for a couple shows and do what he's going to do.

I had a 10.30 spot in the original room down the hall from the main room. I got there about 9.30 with Sarah, Sarah Kane, the painter, the girl, and yeah, we just ate dinner. I went in, and it was between shows for Louie, so I went and said hi. Sarah and I went backstage, and he was just there, lying there on his back, alone, thinking.

We chit-chatted for a while, and then Sarah and I left, and then I was going to go down the hall to do my spot, and then the manager, Adam, ran up to me and said, Louie, I want to talk to you, so I went back, and he said, look, Chris was coming down to run his stuff for the Oscars, but it doesn't seem like he's coming, so do you want to do it? Do you want to do like 15, 20 in front of me and bring me up? And it's weird, because I, you know, I don't usually open for people, but it's my friend Louie, it's my home club, I've been feeling good in that room, I'm like, yeah, of course, that'd be a blast, you know, it's a packed house, and what ultimately happened was Chris Rock did come, and Louie, and I said, look, you know, Chris got to do this work, let him do the work, and, you know, I don't need to go on, you know, it was nice he'd ask me, but he's like, no, both of you go on, both of you do, Tim. So I went on, and I brought Chris on, and then Chris brought Louie on, it was a hell of a night at the comedy town, it's the last real place to see comedy in Los Angeles, it's, you can feel the history, you can feel the place, it's electric when it's electric, I cannot tell you enough, and to tell, you know, just go, go take it in, it's sort of mind-blowing, man, you can feel all of it, going all the way back to the 40s.

So, you know, I watched Chris do this stuff, and it was going, it was great, getting applause breaks, and he presented it, as, you know, this is the stuff I'm doing tomorrow, and he's been doing all week, and he's a testament to, I don't know what, but to people's decency, or perhaps their excitement about being part of the process, that, you know, no one leaked the jokes, and, you know, they still had some weight to him. So, after watching him do that, knowing that they were both going to be at the Oscars, and I was going to be on my couch, that was exciting to watch for me, and to see how those jokes did, and to see the process, you know, Chris had a few writers with him, Louis was helping him out a little bit, and he was trying to make this thing really resonate, and to really ride the line that Chris Rock can ride when he's on the mark. And it was interesting, too, that, you know, that there was this balance to be made, you know, between a celebration of talent, and the industry, and, you know, making movies, making pictures on all levels, and, you know, this sort of stark reality of a certain type of, you know, prejudice, and even if it's just through negligence, whatever, wherever it comes from, it obviously exists, and Chris had to ride that line, and I think he did it beautifully, but then it becomes, here's the interesting thing to me, is that it was the theme of the night, you know, that, you know, that it had a lot to do with Chris, that, you know, this was going to be the theme of the night, the lack of diversity, the lack of black nominations, the lack of black actors, you know, roles being available in Hollywood, and it's been around for a long time, and Chris, your attention to that, but there is this moment, where, you know, you think, like, well, you know, are they, are they, are they, are they hitting it too much, you know, is this bit, is this theme, are they, are they hitting it over the head too much, you know, there's this, oh, here's another bit about that, and, you know, there is that instinct to sort of feel that, and I imagine some people will say that, but there was an interesting thing I learned, you know, from doing a week with Paul Mooney in Sacramento, you know, I was middling for Paul Mooney in Sacramento, I got, it has to be 15 years ago, maybe a little less than that, and he would do two hours, two and a half hours, and I don't know if you know the amazing Paul Mooney, but Paul Mooney is all about, you know, telling white people how racist they are, and celebrating it, so, it was an interesting thing that I learned about that, because no one's going to argue that racism exists institutionally, and also, you know, socially, and that, you know, certainly there's been progress, but, you know, clearly, from the news, and from reality, and from this, this whole lack of conversation about class in this country, you know, there's no denying that, so, when, when you watch the Oscars, and you're like, oh, really, they're doing another bit on this, aren't they hitting it, aren't they hitting it too hard, aren't they overdoing it, you know, this, this bit, we get it, we get it, there's that notion, we get it, you know, okay, okay, yeah, but, but do you get it? Here's the thing I learned with Mooney, is that, you know, he would sit up, I didn't understand it at first, like, he would do two and a half hours, these are primarily white audiences, and I just don't know why he stayed up there, I don't know why he stayed up there, you know, and then, you know, you start to realize it, and I talked to him a little bit about it, is that, if you think you're not racist, you know, and you think you're progressive, and you think you're, you know, you don't, you just don't have that in you, sit in an audience, and watch a black man call you out on it, you know, for two and a half hours, and he's going to find it in you, he's going to find it in you, so, there is this thing, well, you know, we get it, you know, and that's just, you know, it's like, all right, we get it, and So, I don't think that there was too much, and I think that it was important, and it did occupy a tremendous amount of the proceedings, the venue had become politicized, and it had to be addressed, and it was addressed, and, but again, I think there might have been a balance to be made with some fun dance numbers, I wasn't, I don't think, you know, necessarily, Chris is the host to be involved in that, but they could have, they could have done a little more celebrating of show business, you know, in the old-timey way, for this getting old guy, for my tastes, you dig?

All right, oh, spotlight, I called that, if you asked my producer, Brennan McDonald, I called it, I said, that's the one to win, and because, you know, it is, it's an amazing movie, and it's about a horrendous thing, it's a very graphic, and engaged, and well-researched, and compelling description, of what journalism used to look like, it's an important fucking movie, for the fact, that, you know, what passes the journalism now, is ill-referenced, you know, spontaneous, irresponsible garbage, mostly, mostly clickbait, mostly, you know, unconfirmed, unsubstantiated, so when you see what it looks like, to take the time necessary, to construct a narrative, that will reveal a truth, that will speak that truth to power, and, and, and, and at least shake it at its foundation, if not topple it, it's an amazing thing to watch, and I have not seen anything like that, since all the president's men, and quickly, I'd like to say that my friend, friend of the show, Douglas Rushkoff, has a new book out, if you have a HAL premium subscription, you can go listen to him on episode 404 of this show, where he talks about the book, Present Shock, his new book, is called Throwing Rocks at the Google Bus How Growth Became the Enemy of Prosperity, that comes out tomorrow, March 1st, I like Douglas Rushkoff, he's an exciting thinker, and he's an exciting writer, so I wanted to throw him a little love, but Scott Ian, now, here's the thing about Scott, is that, you know, I've been, you know, he's been around the comedy scene for a long time, he's friends with Brendan Small, with Posehn, with, uh, AG, you know, like, he's around, I see him at these shows we do, the music shows, and I always liked him, I was a nice guy, and people, you know, I always said, like, well, come on, but, like, I'm always nervous, because a lot of times I have musicians on, I'm not a metal guy, really, I mean, I just got into Black Sabbath five fucking years ago, my ex-wife, Nishina, was a huge metalhead, and I just was not on board because I didn't grow up with it, but now, over time, you know, as a man in his 40s and 50s, I'm getting into metal, finally, thank you, and, you know, I was just nervous to have Scott on, because I didn't listen to a lot of anthrax, but I certainly did, before he came on, I gotta say, what a great fucking band, I had no idea how important they were in metal until I started listening, and I started doing a little research, and I read a little Scott's book, and now this guy, he was just this nice guy with a funny beard, was hanging around, you know, I realized that he's a very important fucking figure in the history of modern music, and in the fucking, you know, definition of what metal is in its current state, but what I found is that, you know, I was talking to another nice Jewish kid, who chose to live a creative life, and, you know, we had a lot in common, and some not in common But he's a sweetheart of a guy, straight shooter, decent dude, and the guitar player for Anthrax, so this is my conversation with Scott Ian Scott, I've seen you around for a long time Yes You've been planning on doing this for a while Yep And you're probably, there were points where you were probably like, why is Maren blowing me off? No, I never thought you were blowing me off, I know how busy you are I follow you on social media, so I always see who's gonna be on Yeah That guy's bigger than me Well, here's the thing, I'll be honest with you, because I feel like I owe it to you to be honest with you, is that as much as I want to be a full-on metal guy, I just, I missed it Sure I missed like, when you guys were huge, I think I had to be about maybe 10 years younger, we're the same age Right So I have to imagine, when Anthrax got huge, it was primarily teenage dudes, right? Yeah, it was people our age and younger, obviously, yeah I just somehow, like, I missed it, so I feel insecure, like, you know, I like you, I've known you, the book is great, you wrote a real book, you know, I went and got all the Anthrax records Cool You know, I did my homework, but not unlike when I had, who was it, Maynard in here I'm a little old to start getting into Tool Right You know, but what I want you to do, as we move through it, if you could, I need you to walk me through not only Anthrax, but, you know, what is the basic, because look, like, I like all the sources of metal Right But you guys sort of invented thrash metal, right? One of the bands that they give credit to, yes So, what are the other ones?

Metallica, Slayer, and Megadeth Exodus should be in there, too Exodus? Yeah, they're also from the Bay Area What was the shift? Was it the, was thrash metal the first shift out of, like, Black Sabbath into a new thing? Well, no, because after Sabbath, you had, you know, Priest, and then you had Iron Maiden and Motorhead Right Yeah, and so for us, we like all that stuff Right But I would say our generation, certainly for me in New York and the other members of Anthrax, for us, Maiden and Motorhead were the two, those were the two that I think we felt the most akin to Because, you know, Sabbath, that was, I loved Sabbath since I was a kid, but they were even before my time, in a sense Like Zeppelin Right, yeah The Sabbath started putting our records in 1970, so I wasn't buying Sabbath records when I was six, you know So it came later, I went back and got, you know, I think my first Sabbath record might have been, like, Never Say Die, and then I went back and got all the catalog But for us, for me, Maiden and Motorhead, that's, they were like, that was my thing I felt like they were mine, like, the older kids, they had Zeppelin and Sabbath, we had Priest and Maiden and Motorhead But, like, when you were a kid, like, when you started getting into that stuff, what, 13 or 14?

Yeah, right around there, like, seventh grade, whatever that is They were actually, you know, they were new, and it was a small audience, wasn't it? I mean, at that time, like, it was sort of like punk rocker, like, right alongside of it in a way, or maybe that was a little later But, but it seems to me that Sabbath and Zeppelin and all those fucking bands, you know, they were huge But, like, Iron Maiden and Motorhead, like, you had to find those, you had to go find those records, right? 1980, 1980 really was the year, because in that year, the first Maiden record came out, and that was the year Motorhead put out Ace of Spades And I bought both those records that year, knowing nothing about the bands, just because I would go through the racks at the store near my house And the album covers looked cool, so I would buy them Right And usually, the cool album cover meant the band was great at the time, so And, you know, in 1980, Sabbath, they put out Heaven and Hell, so they put out their first record with Dio, which was amazing Ozzy was already out, Zeppelin was done, I guess, for all intents Pretty much, I don't know, went it in through the outdoor Yeah, right around then Yeah, yeah, yeah, and they were sort of neutered by that point in a way So, for us, Maiden and Motorhead, oh, yeah, they were small, I mean, Maiden supported Priest their first time in New York Opened for Priest at the Palladium, but we all knew who they were, you know, we were all happy to see both bands And I saw Motorhead open for Ozzy my first time in New York as well Ozzy solo for a solo tour? Yeah, yeah, on Blizzard of Ozzy And we just watched Lenny You know, he says it best every time he would start a show, we're Motorhead and we play rock and roll And that was his life, he lived it and breathed it for 70 years, or however many years he was in Motorhead But, you know what I mean, he was the epitome, you know, I look at him and Ozzy as the two biggest icons in the world of, let's say Lenny always said, we're a rock and roll band All us metalheads and all the punk rockers and the hardcore kids and hard rock people, it was the one band everyone agreed on Like, we'd argue all day long about everything else, but Motorhead was the one band everyone liked And you used to hang out with him a lot?

Yeah, yeah, I met him in 85 in London as a kid going there to do interviews for my second album Interviews? What do you mean? Well, I'd go over to do promo for Oh, right, right, right, so you're on press tour Right, right, and, you know, and then my band started to happen and we would cross paths quite a bit And Motorhead were kind enough to take us on tour many times Oh, yeah? Yeah, so, yeah, we got to know each other, for sure Now, when, so you're going to go speak tomorrow, huh?

Yeah Is that going to be a, it's going to be a pretty interesting attended funeral I think so, yeah, I think it should be pretty attended heavy I mean, you know what, I was really bummed I don't know if I'm divulging too much information here, but I was actually, we have the same management we have for a while And out of the blue, I got an email from my manager, Todd Singerman And he's been with Lenny, like, probably 30 years Oh, really? Yeah And again, he said, I wanted you guys to hear it first, you know, before it goes public tomorrow But Lenny's got terminal cancer, he's got two to six months And, you know, we were in Woodstock, Pearl and I, and our son on vacation over the holidays And I get this email, like, my heart just sinks And I, like, Pearl's just coming out of the shower I was like, oh my god And I couldn't even read it, I just showed her my phone, you know And she started crying, and I was, like, just super bummed out And I'm like, what? You know, and I write him back And it's kind of this email, back and forth, back and forth for about 15 minutes What happened, blah, blah, blah And he's filling me in all these details And, uh, and I just find myself getting more and more aggravated by the whole thing And I wrote him back, I said, you know what, fuck this If anyone could defy this, if anyone could defeat this bullshit, it would be him Look at the life he's, he's lived, you know There's no way he's only got six months And then I wrote the bottom of the email I said, long live, let me fuck cancer, right? Right 30 seconds later, the reply is, they just called me he passed two minutes ago oh my god i couldn't like i dropped my phone like just i was in shock well by the time they found it wasn't it like way i mean you know he had my impression was that he was so used to feeling shitty that i don't think he even knew he had cancer i mean it seemed like it was pretty far along yeah they um from what i was told they didn't know he was terminal until just a couple of days before what i'm talking to you about um a week ago but i told him he had cancer he's like i'm not gonna fucking deal with this yeah you know look i didn't get to see him or talk to him um from uh i could only surmise that he made the decision to truly go out on top because they just finished a european run that was some of the biggest headline gigs they've played in the history of their band yeah let me certainly wasn't the kind of guy that wanted to waste away in a bed for two to six months yeah yeah that's not that's not the way he would ever he i can't tell you how many times he would say to me over the years i'm gonna die on stage scott and i'm like i believe you you know he almost did he almost a couple times from in this last tour i mean i know this sounds crazy and morbid and everything but truly if he would have dropped dead like playing ace of spades uh at their last show in germany then what could have been better than that would have been great yeah it would have been that truly would have been like all right end of story so let's go back uh scott let's go back to when you were just uh you know a jewish kid yes i kind of still am that we can't get rid of it i still talk about i'm still talking about the same way i did when i was 15 it's like it's so it's so funny man like well there's part of i don't know i guess that's just respect you know i feel the same way about people like when i interviewed keith richard i almost shit myself yeah i can imagine like fucking nuts yeah but you've been able because like i never followed through the music dream like you've been able to play with almost all of your fucking heroes yeah at some point or another who haven't you acdc oh my biggest ones it's like they're the tell me he's not the best fucking guitar player in the world for sure both of them yeah they're my favorite band ever um most influential on me as a guitar player really yeah yeah malcolm's rhythm playing just his his pocket yeah feel somehow i i i do my best to just transpose that into what i do in anthrax i know we don't sound anything alike but it's it's a feeling it's where he's putting the chords and how he's his way his right hand is moving and his his economical playing that's kind of how i always look at it it's very economical and i don't know how it is that they can be so fucking simple yet no one can fucking do what they do that's the thing it's a fucking magic trick yeah it is it's a magic trick because it's the most difficult thing to really get it right right it's easier to cover rush than it is to cover acdc and we've done both and that's why i know we've done both and acdc is much harder what is it just the groove or like well he's sort of a he's a tricky guitar player because he's all licks and they're you know they got a nice yeah it's it's all of it it's i think it truly is how simple it truly is and y'all be playing like covering their stuff and i'll be thinking no there's got to be more he's playing the chords more but then you're listening like no he's not he's literally just like hitting it one time or something which covers usually do well we've recorded uh we've recorded tnt we've recorded a whole lot of rosie um i feel like i'm missing one um but a lot i mean i've done so many of them in anthrax with friends i mean let there be rock yeah a million times down payment blues oh down payment blues is the best um that's so many we should use that as a theme song that's my favorite acdc song so mine too that's so tough that's so weird because that's like not you know that's not one that everybody has to do track but it's a little bit starts yeah and just the opening chords and then the second guitar comes in crazy his lyrics to that song too are just you know he's just telling the story and it's i don't know it's just for me it epitomizes that band so reason where'd you grow up as a jewish kid bayside queens wow bayside yeah well like you were bar mitzvah and everything uh-huh only because my grandfather was orthodox and he uh it was really important to him my parents uh in the 70s weren't really we had a christmas tree they weren't we had one or two anyway you didn't go to hebrew school no my they asked my mom asked me my parents divorced so uh when was that 75 so i was 11 oh really we were living we lived in queens moved out to my you know parents bought a house on long island for three years that turned into a complete nightmare and uh parents divorced and then me and my brother moved back to queens a few blocks from where we had lived before in bayside and then with your mother yeah with my mom right in the seventh grade so it was like prime time perfect 1975 i was just gonna turn 12 you know were you pissed in the city no i wasn't pissed i couldn't have been happier actually why because they were miserable we didn't scream at each other you know scream at each other and throw my and my brother's GI Joe toys at each other oh really or my mom would throw the GI Joe toys at the wall my dad wasn't a thrower oh your mom was the uh was the passionate one yeah so it was i was actually couldn't have been happier i was back in queens where all my friends were who i went to first second and third grade with now i'm back and i'm starting junior high and like you know first day of school some kid hands me a joint i'm like wow things are different in the city of long island what town in long island were you we were like in seaford i don't know where the fuck it's like by wantaw same area it was the yes it's so funny the picture of you and your dad when you were born i had the same fucking picture with my dad the same jewish profile right the same confused look holding the kid the same fucking way like what am i gonna do with this thing what'd your dad do uh jewelry business really yeah in the jewelry business in the city or out there in the city yeah yeah in the city so you're 12 years old you're smoking weed before your bar mitzvah did you see that serious man did you see that movie the cullen brothers movie no no i haven't seen that i have to see that kid gets high in the bathroom before you well i didn't do that hilarious i got pretty drunk that night though we had a party in our apartment my mom's apartment after oh yeah the bar mitzvah party all the kids come yeah all the kids came i i i never went to hebrew school my parents gave me the choice yeah do you want to go to hebrew school i was like hell no like all my friends who went to hebrew school were miserable in hebrew school and i'd go to these bar mitzvahs and they'd be singing for three hours yeah this is insane my mother do you want to go i was like nope i'm gonna stay home and play guitar and ride my skateboard like that's what i'm gonna do so when i did it was transliterated for me it took about four minutes it was literally baruch atah you know in english right couldn't have been easier well my grandfather was happy and he was up there with you for a minute yeah yeah yeah i remember it was a weird place in forest hills they had a hard time finding a place that would bar mitzvah me because because i really didn't know it but also like i don't know it had something to do with or the docs or not and all the ladies had to sit like in the back oh really yeah it was like an intense room so oh yeah tough room yeah all the ladies are in back yeah a lot of judgment on the faces of the bearded men exactly oh so your grandfather set it up somewhere yes they probably slipped in a few bucks he doesn't know what he's doing exactly help me we got to get him in yeah so i passed and good good so when did you first start playing though um before that when we were in island like i was probably it was probably like 73 so i was nine years old um i saw i saw the who on tv on something i saw pete townsend breaking guitars i just thought it was the coolest thing i'd ever seen and um i said to my dad i want to play guitar i would love to play guitar and there was an acoustic guitar in the house not quite sure why because like my dad knew like two chords but he never played guitar well that's the way he probably did what my dad did they bought it once they got you know three folk songs yeah and then it sat there there was a harmony guitar in my house yeah there was some acoustic guitar i was sitting around the house so nylon strings and uh so i remember picking up trying to do a windmill and all that and then i started guitar lessons and i loved it until my teacher was like it became homework like right now charts and theory and i was like fuck this yeah i couldn't do it this sucks you know i don't want to i would say i want to learn you know teach me communication right now give me the court yeah i just want to learn how to play songs like oh you have to learn this and he was like a cool dude like he was like 17 or 18 with long hair and he had a strat he played in a band was he a wizard could he really play he could play yeah yeah i remember his name russell alexander oh yeah and i thought he was the coolest guy in the world he always are until he wanted me to like do homework i was like i'm not doing homework i just want to learn how to play songs by bands and no everyone had i was like i don't believe that i don't think jimmy page ever sat around me he probably did yeah but so then i got sick of it and after six months i said to my parents basically i don't want to take lessons anymore yeah i just want to do it on my own and i'm sure they probably thought oh that's it the guitar is going to go hard and collect dust but i worked twice as hard because i would just sit with records and learn songs and then would you have chord books no i just ear my ear i was able to just listen and you know and figure out what they were doing oh really yeah you know you're at that point when you're just a total beginner and like going from a g to a c chord so you're like i'll never be able to do this right exactly i can remember that like where how do you actually go from chord to chord without stopping and you know i can remember feeling that yeah and then all of a sudden one day you're going from chord to chord like oh my god it's a cool single road yeah what was the first song you learned all the way through wipe out oh really oh yeah well that was a good because you could do that by ear right yeah i learned i learned that i learned bad bad leroy brown and i learned blown in the wind i just played bad bad leroy brown too i played those at a talent show like in the fourth grade so when did you start uh playing with people i mean what was that what was it that compelled you to start playing with people because to me sitting in the house just playing guitar was literally jerking off yeah i still do it yeah you know what i mean that's all i do it's like for me as a kid even they were both parallel for me i want to play guitar with other people or like i want to have sex with girls i didn't want to just stay home and go like this so i was always looking for other kids to play with and when we moved back to queens there was no other kids playing guitar on long island that was totally not like where i was nobody cared uh all these kids uh all they cared about street hockey that's all anyone did in my neighborhood was like street hockey really yeah and then at night they would go to the overpass and drink tango which was like some crappy vodka orange juice mick yeah yeah and these were like 12 year olds like yeah and uh and i wasn't ready for that so i would sit in the basement and play with my hot wheels and play guitar like listen to the records yeah yeah and uh i had a my my cousin eddie who's my dad's cousin is my second cousin he was like a biker dude and uh they lived not far from us what's the while we'd go over there and down in their basement they had all amps and these drums and all those places the first time you walked into that kind of place like what the fuck black light posters and all these biker dudes in vest long hair smoking weed and they'd all be down there just jamming up this is the coolest thing you know yeah but they wouldn't i couldn't jam with them like that why because i was a kid you know i just sit on the side with my jaw on the floor but um were they playing like oh hippie rock who even knows yeah i don't know i just remember like wah wah pedals oh man but uh once i got back to queens i immediately started meeting kids in seventh grade like in the neighborhood like guitar play drums out on the island they didn't do nothing the hockey was out on the island yeah yeah that's where they all were right everybody was playing yeah and who'd you meet did any of them make it into anthrax uh not at the initial initial what's your what's your last name rosenfeld scott ian rosenfeld i got rosenfeld we fucking related i guess i do so no no one made it into anthrax from the original crew no because that didn't anthrax really didn't start to like take shape until probably it was probably in like 1980 when danny loker who was the original bass player in anthrax um we became friends in school probably i don't know 79 or something like that and uh and then we would walk to school together every day and talk about metal and music and blah blah blah and uh he was in a band called white heat at the time yeah we were actually already playing gigs in the city and they were like we were all the same age of 15 16 what were they playing what kind of music like they had their own songs they had originals and it was like metal hard rock slash metal and uh and they would play gigs in manhattan which was like the coolest thing in the world yeah to me like wow you guys actually playing the city and their singer at the time this guy marco he i think lived in manhattan which was like unfathomable to me like but he didn't grow up there he just lived there i'm not sure i don't remember but um and i would always say to danny because he learned about anthrax in in high school yeah he learned about it in i think it was biology class or something one day and he said i learned about this thing called anthrax today and i was like that sounds really cool like that sounds like a metal band name one of these days so i would say all the time when white heat rates up you and i are gonna start a band called anthrax because we would jam all the time every day we were at one of the others house jamming what would you play what was the first band that blew your mind though outside the who where you were like fuck oh it was i mean it was a non-stop just non-stop like um from early on elton john was probably the first thing i really really really fell in love with like my dad took me to see elton john in like 74 and i saw coliseum oh yeah um yeah what album was he touring like was that good by yellow brick road or something like yeah or don't shoot me on the piano oh yeah elton john for me kind of really kind of opened the door i think for me and then after that it just not long after that uh was kiss like that and that for me was because my parents liked elton john too my parents listened to pretty cool music i remember the woodstock album being on all the time and uh um they loved the band you know um there's a lot of good music in the house um but kiss was my thing they didn't want anything to do with that well that was special for just you and you know kids of that decade in that age the kiss army that was yeah they were designed for fucking you know kids who didn't know what to do with their dicks yet but we're sort of exactly they mainline like that was heroin for for me and my friends for real yeah like i was in the three things when i was 12 years old i was in the comic books i was in the horror and i was in the rock music yeah and they put it all in one fiery bloody package and uh when i heard rock and roll i heard rock and roll all night on the radio yeah in the car with my mom i'm like 72 yellow ford torino station wagon yeah and uh i heard that on the radio and i was like that's the best song i've ever heard but the dj never back announced it so i didn't know who it was and then like a week later yeah i'm watching something in the afternoon on tv it's just on yeah and i see these four dudes in makeup and i'm kind of like who the hell are those guys you know my initial instinct was that they look really stupid i don't like this like i don't like it and then like here they are kissed with their new hit rock and roll all night i was like whoa that's them and then instantly just fucking needle into the vein like you got that was it your full-on kiss that was it done like from 75 uh from 75 through 78 because uh kiss alive i bought kiss alive that year yeah for my dad for his birthday because i had like six dollars to buy my dad a birthday present so i bought kiss alive knowing he was just gonna say thank you and hand it back to me and uh that was it from kiss from basically so from and i went out and bought the first three records um and then of course every six months they were releasing as bands did in the 70s every six months there was a new album yeah and but i only lasted till 78 to like uh love gonna lie to and then they put out the four solo records yeah which i only really liked aces and then that was it as hard as i was into them by like 79 i went to nassau coliseum to see kiss judas priest and left after judas priest like i didn't care about kiss anymore were they open for them judas priest opened and you're like that's a new thing me and my friends we went to see we were only going to see priest oh really yeah don't get me wrong those three years of kiss and all those old records i still love them now like i did in 1970 right right but uh but by 79 just musically i had moved musically and emotionally yeah you know like it's sort of funny so you know like the anger or whatever was in you that compels you towards metal was sort of like yeah i need it heavier harder faster like just everything you know and judas priest was like oh my god i didn't know it they were like like how could anything be heavier than saddest you know right right like you know well because there's two guitars yeah and it brought speed to it too yeah yeah and there's like double bass drumming in it and like just like you never heard it and it was creepy and like even darker and doomier and loud halford singing those high notes just like holy shit you know yeah of course i was in a ton of shit i mean everything great in the 70s from every rock band hard rock and even disco i love disco i never told anybody i love disco because yeah i had my disco sucks t-shirt sure but i fucking loved it great players great grooves great pop songs no doubt and if you put on you know you could put on a chic record at a party and maybe a girl will dance with you and then possibly kiss you but they're not doing that to fucking juice priest no no girls in the room yeah and if they are they're drunk yeah they're throwing up on themselves like when you when you sit in a room arguing over well who's a bit of a guitar player richie blackmore joe perry that's it that's a pussy driver there might be one sleeping girl with a feathered haircut who might burn herself with a cigarette on the couch right so you know disco had it definitely had its purpose too oh that discussion richie blackmore joe perry but yeah i was in a everything i mean i couldn't get rock yet oh yeah yeah for sure the ramones i you know most lived in forest hill so i remember seeing them on the sha-na-na tv show because we used to watch that with my parents they love that show so i used to watch sha-na-na every week that weird variety yeah yeah yeah yeah and the ramones were on one time and i was like whoa who are these dudes like playing super fast and they look like me they were wearing levi's in a leather jacket and they had long hair yeah and uh and then i remember like picking up a copy of cream or roxine magazine or something and finding out that the ramones were from queens like from forest hill specifically like circus or crawdaddy yeah yeah like all those magazines aren't around anymore so i'm like that's just a few miles from here and look those guys are on tv if they can do it i can do it like i never said that about kiss that was unreachable but the ramones i was like yeah i can do that yeah i can play guitar just like johnny ramone like so i was waiting i saw my queen's college in 79 i was way in it well it's funny if you really think about it i'm sure you have i mean it's just funny graduating from you know kiss but you know after a certain age they are sort of clowns right and then to uh to judas priest which they're they were more menacing in their stage even there's a lot of stage uh um you know show yeah theatrics theatrics but they were it was different right and now we know it was like you know okay yeah exactly and uh but then like um the ramones because i think that if i listen to anthrax correctly i mean it seems like he probably influencing more than most people johnny johnny oh yeah his downpicking style you know just that yeah yeah just constantly of course in the type of music we play we added in the palm mute when we're downpicking that chunking edge yeah yeah open strings but uh more distortion too right oh yeah much more distorted tone than ramones but yeah his aggressive right hand was it was a big influence on me yeah yeah so when did you put the original lineup together it was in 81 um i had a band we graduated college in 81 didn't we or high school in 81 yeah and uh i had a band called 4x named after the condom i have no idea why but uh um and uh and so we not that we didn't do anything we'd rehearse and we'd play like at the high school battle of bands and things like that but uh um we put together one night we had a jam session at some rehearsal studio not far from where we at the bayside and uh it went it was me and danny looker and some of the guys before x and and uh this kid john connelly who we knew from high school he was singing and just you know jamming on cover songs yeah but uh it just went so well something sparked in the room like it really like we played maiden covers better than we had ever played maiden covers with anyone else before yeah and uh and danny looker's band had broken up white heat and and we looked at each other and i said this is it man this is anthrax this is the band he's like okay yeah like if you guys want to be in a band yeah let's be in a band and that was the official start of july 18th 1981 because i put it on a calendar the summer after high school graduation yeah the night anthrax was formed and we just started rehearsing rehearsing and danny already had some songs and some riffs that we kind of hijacked from his old band white heat yeah and then we just kind of rewrote stuff so we just dove in and just did our best to write our own material right from the start and how long did you take to put together the first record when did that happen started in 81 you know numerous lineup changes going through singers i look at like not not being a full anthrax and our lineup changes are ridiculous dude but especially i mean no one even knows the lineup changes from 81 till till end of 82 early 83 those two years trying to put the lineup together that was actually going to record our first album right because you know you get a dude in the band who's like a great guitar player or something but wouldn't chip in for the rehearsal spot so i got you're out you know fuck you like everyone's got to chip in 10 bucks you're in the band chip in all right you're fired so there's a lot of that going on um you know dude should be in the band for a week right but who were the like the core was it was you and danny right it was me and danny looker and then uh and then neil turbin who sings on the first album right he went to high school with us so we got him and then and then the key the real key was when we had this drummer greg d'angelo who uh was a great drummer but really couldn't play the double kick right play that fast double bass drumming that we wanted in our sound and he ended up quitting the band after anthrax and metallica played this you know shit hole of a club in jersey and after the show he tells us i'm leaving i'm leaving the band i'm joining this band cities which at the time they were kind of this hot band they could like pack lemores in brooklyn and uh it was like really and i'm like really like those guys that shit ain't gonna last you know that's like there already is a van halen you know that shit ain't gonna last because it's kind of what it sounded like right right and uh it's like well whatever anyway you know i'm joining the cities of my art you know and i i was kind of a dick and yeah about it and we weren't friends for a long time after that but it was the best thing that ever happened because through a mutual friend this guy tom brown he said you guys need a drummer my friend charlie you know he's like the best drummer in the world and that was charlie bernette who then danny looker and i soon after that went to his little uh his house his mom's house and he had a drum set upstairs this is in frog's neck in the bronx frog's neck yeah and uh he had a drum set up in a small half the size of this room yeah he had like this whole piece giant drum kit with toms and cymbals everywhere yeah we're like squeezed in there with two little amps and we just start jamming on maiden and motorhead and there was a song by a band called except at the time called fastest shark yeah it was the standard of like they had set the bar for double kick it was like the fastest double kick anyone ever heard and he's like please don't ask me to play fastest shark i'm like you can play fastest shark yeah and uh he's like yeah and we're like all right we don't know the whole song but we know how to get into it and we start jamming and he plays he's playing it faster than except and me and danny are just like you know just boner you know you want to be in the band you want to be in the band and then that was it like then we you know we basically yeah that was it like he he he completed us wow so but he stayed with you for like danny didn't stay no danny got fired by our then singer neil because you didn't like the fact that there was somebody taller than him get the fuck out of here why did you let that happen i had respect to singers it was crazy right it's the worst still to this day that you know the one decision that was made that i wish i i would have just but at the time we had finished the record we had a record literally done it's gonna come out and he gave us the ultimatum it's either him or me and we how could we have lost our singer with a record about to come out like you know everyone was like we can't we can't lose our singer what are we gonna do and yeah i was sick to my stomach because danny was my best friend so that was that was the worst thing that i ever had to deal with in the context of being in a band was like literally that making that call to danny because he called me up dude what's going on neil just called me and said i'm out of the band i was like what you know i'll call you back and then we're all on the phone we're talking to our manager johnny z and blah blah blah and what are we gonna do you know we can't lose our singer and that sucked and johnny z said you gotta no he didn't tell us you have to you know it was our decision did you and danny become friends again or yeah we did we we obviously we kind of lost touch he started his band called nuclear assault and and uh but then a couple years later i did this side thing called sod the stormtroopers of death and it's just this ridiculous inside joke of a record of kind of hardcore metal crossover sound which one that i had written like 10 of these songs already and then i called danny i said yeah i mean he's crazy like 30 second songs and 60 second songs and um you want to come up to ithaca that's where anthrax was recording our second album and you want to come up and just fuck around with this and he did and you know we finished that record and that's you know that's a different thing but yeah we reconnected on that and uh you know you're okay now yeah totally okay yeah yeah yeah you got over the 18 year old horrible moment yes i was able to get over that so but that that band that record's all good right yeah yeah that was which like i said it's just a thing that made us laugh and yeah it was brutally heavy at the same time and uh uh yeah it did really well after anthrax blew up when anthrax started to blow up in 87 because sod came out in 85 and no one was paying that much attention to it we had like a core group of kids in new york and um but nobody really knew about it but then when anthrax started to blow up people found out about sod and then that blew up as well how'd the first record do fiscal did okay like you know whatever that was back then it sold you know in the tens of thousands and it got you like on the road opening for big acts um no we went out with a band called raven who were also just they were from newcastle england yeah they were from that kind of scene if you've seen the anvil movie yeah raven same exact story but yeah but from newcastle and but same exact story on the cusp of making it massive yeah and then but uh um but at the time were bigger than us metallica's first tour of the u.s in 83 they supported raven and then in 84 we supported raven summer of 84 but the last show of that tour was at the roseland ballroom in new york sold out 3,500 tickets instantly raven metallica anthrax and of course that's when record labels were like huh you know who are these bands selling 3,500 tickets without you know just an indie record deal we were all on you know megaforce records johnny z's label and you had metallica yeah so you know you've had a relationship with metallica for like 34 years since they showed up in new york in a u-haul yeah yeah since literally the day they pulled in from san francisco that's almost 40 years dude yeah yeah 82 it's crazy right yeah wow 30 yeah um so that night at roseland all the labels were there scouting and right after that basically metallica signed to electra we signed island and raven signed to atlantic yeah and then the story goes yeah that was it right but raven was gone raven made it like one or two records on atlantic and then that was it done so how did you guys you guys just got offered did uh did um electra offer you a deal as well was there a bidding war did you know at the time um i think it was kind of cut and dry they were all under the same time warner okay atlantic electra and island right uh you know i wasn't behind the scenes with johnny obviously in any of those dealings but that's how it all played out and i see yeah and island was very very excited for us and we liked the fact that we were going to a label that had no other hard rock or metal bands electra and atlantic had tons of this is sort of the birth of the new generation of metal right yeah exactly and lou stane was metallica at the time he was already out of metallica already gone yeah yeah yeah he was out of metallica he had mega death already yeah um who also had their first record out so all you guys yeah we're getting the deals and then you did your second album you stayed with johnny z yeah yeah johnny was with us all the way through to 1993 or 94 but you went to a few labels no we were on island the whole time yeah um when did you hook up with uh the singer with joey uh joey that that happened we fired that for that guy neil right after that tour right after that rose land show well yeah it was he became impossible like it literally became we never could have moved forward as a band yeah yeah if he was going to stay in the band and we made the decision to make a change and so he was gone we had already written most of spreading the disease we went to the studio that album's like basically done recorded and we didn't have a singer right uh the guy who's producing that record carl kennedy he had seen joey playing in this band called bible black and somehow got his phone number and asked if he wanted to come down and just check out what was going on with this band anthrax nobody nobody knew who the fuck we were we weren't anything yet and this is before the second album yeah yeah yeah and uh he came down the other guy and walked in and he went out on the mic and we're all in the control room and he's like what do you want me to do he didn't know our songs yeah like i don't know sing whatever and he like started like just singing like like oh sherry from steve perry and barner and like whatever oh that's it yeah and his voice was incredible like we were like holy crap this is what a voice on this guy everyone's like looking at each other like there's all the other bands of our ilk just had guys who they just you have the least offensive bark you you can at least bark all night yeah you know yeah so and now we have singer singer like and like i remember like johnny z and everyone's like this is the guy that's going to set you apart and it was true you know because we had like we always looked at anthrax even though we love motorhead yeah we always looked at anthrax as more of judas priest or iron maiden who had like real singers um as much as we love motorhead we wanted a guy like that we wanted like a bruce dickinson or yeah yeah rob halford and we found it with joey and and he uh he did the second record how many records total yeah he did he did spreading and among and state euphoria persists the time attack of the killer bees and then that got us into like 92 and then that's when we made the change joey was out john bush was in so those records among the living was a big one right that's the one that broke us yeah and when like what was the when you say what was the build like so among the living when you're touring among the living who are you touring with no one we were headlining okay that tour started at like the penny arcade in rochester new york i think in like may of 87 we sold out but whatever it held 500 people or something but by december of 87 we were playing to five six seven eight thousand people a night holy shit it was like that fast but that was among the living then yeah and then it just spread because things just spread then with the metal heads they're like these are the ones the wave we were a part of like literally broke with us and metallica and slayer and mega death um you know metallica definitely opened the door um for because they were like like six months ahead of everybody else or a year ahead because their first album came out like about that long before the rest of our debut records right so metallica already like went out and opened for ozzy yeah and had spread this new sound around the country in a very big mainstream way right so people were looking for more of it and you know so for us right album right place right time but the entire culture of metal changed and you're part of the shift yeah and then there's all these new fucking 15 year old guys who are like holy shit yeah like you were when you were a kid yeah for sure that was it through the 90s you were playing arenas or through the late 80s no the 80s yeah pretty much through the late 80s into the early 90s we'd become like yeah that type of band anywhere from you know 5,000 to 15,000 depending on the on the market and you know started playing festivals in 87 we played the castle dinington monsters of rock thing in england to 80,000 people not headlining bonjovi headline but but that day when cinderella won't go to the bonjovi headline and even with the prominence of the music you were playing those hard rock guys they still fucking held on oh well this is also europe where you'd have bills right right right right yeah yeah yeah so you could have anthrax and metallica on that same bill that day with bonjovi and everybody was kind of there to see everybody right you know even though i guess that's the way a big festival works generally 40 50 000 people were losing their shit for anthrax and metallica right crazier that even though bonjovi went over just fine there was a certain intensity level and of course then that opened the door floodgates for us in europe right but here like that's like different armies yeah of course yeah like you could never i mean bonjovi showed up on a bill with megadeth or metallica right you'd be like what yeah no one worked case in point we're out with ozzy we're opening for ozzy in 88 uh for like two months at the end of 88 and our last show on the tour was new year's eve at long beach arena right um and then he was going on january but we were done and apparently what happened was there was never an announcement that anthrax wasn't still going to be out with ozzy and he shows up the next show i think was reno after la a couple days later and i have an arena full of kids expecting anthrax and he had winger if you remember them the band epic kids from he was a butthead you know yeah and uh winger comes out on stage and did not go over well so that's you know basically yeah what you were saying did you get to know ozzy yeah yeah for sure he's a sweetheart and a guy would come in our dressing room all the time he couldn't be nicer yeah nicest guy ever now you guys you got pretty uh the sort of crossover with public enemy was sort of a big deal right like it was like uh it was like because people were like what like it was uh how did that all transpire that you guys uh you covered public yeah the short story is three of us charlie frankie and i being from queens in the bronx where we were kind of the epicenter of rap music in the early 80s and many of my friends who hated it well i loved it i loved rap and run dfc moved me the same way maiden did yeah and uh so when public enemy we already did this song i'm the man anthrax did this thing called i'm the man which was our first platinum record and which was literally a joke i played the riff the habanagia and we wrote stupid lyrics making fun of ourselves yeah over it it was like you know it's like the rap we were listening to at the time right right and it blew up it became this massive thing um but we opened the door for ourselves to do something better yeah and more serious and as soon as i heard public enemy um i just knew i had to work with chuck d at some point to me his voice was like the heaviest thing i'd ever heard and his voice and my guitar together would just be the ultimate thing and uh um so we just made that happen we became friends and then at some point we were just able to make that happen by force of will yeah like we we recorded a track and we sent it to him and we said we want to bring the noise and The whole world was against us Chuck was like It's kind of redundant Why don't we write something new And Rick Rubin was like It's kind of redundant Why don't you do something new And our label's like We don't want to work with Def Jam Def Jam's we don't want to work with them Blah blah blah blah blah And then Chuck We mailed the tape from LA Where we were in the studio It takes a week to get there In Long Island He finally hears it He calls me up He says Scotty this is slamming It's on Let's do it And that's all it took Was he going to finally hear it And then say Yes I understand now Let's go do it Yeah yeah And are you guys still friends?

Yeah yeah They were on tour Public Enemy and The Prodigy We were just on tour While we were on tour in Europe Just October, November, December We had a night off in Munich So Frankie our bass player and I went We did Bring the Noise with PE at their show And then I just saw Chuck Because we did some interview together For Metal Hammer Magazine in the UK So we did a photo session together In Sheffield of all places In December So yeah I was still in touch with Chuck Still talking I love to hear that I'm naive when I have actors or musicians I just assume everybody's buddies So I like when people still have Relationships with people Most of the time it's the other way Most of the time it's not And a lot of times I never see that guy But you know what I mean It seems like you've kept some relationships Throughout the years I think I could be pretty antisocial My wife sometimes has to give me You know be nicer Or like talk But that's because sometimes I get bored when I'm somewhere And I'm just kind of in my head Like listening to Iron Maiden While everyone else is doing Whatever they're doing Have you been married twice? Three times Three times? Yes When did you get married the first time? 87 Oh yeah?

That lasted two years almost to the day Yeah? Yeah Nightmare? I just should have never been married I was 22 years old And just like the band Was just starting to happen So it was like bad decision I was basically too much of a pussy I would have to say at the time You'd break up Yeah I was just being a nice Jewish boy And doing what I was supposed to do I did that man I did it last longer than two years Went on for a while Yeah two years Isn't that weird We have that decision Where it's like I know I need to get out But you want to get married? Yeah it was terrible I was you know I was cheating on her I was on tour I wasn't being faithful And she was from the neighborhood or what?

Yeah well not the same neighborhood But yeah Queens And you know Everyone had the plan for us And we married You can have kids You can buy a house For our sales Blah blah blah You know she had a really good job And yeah but I was like No way There's no way So it ended badly? Yeah No money though? I had money yeah I literally like moved to California At the end of 89 After the divorce you had nothing? Yeah nothing Whatever I had I put in a truck That was driving Anthrax's gear to LA To record an album And I was like Oh free move I'm getting out of New York And I put whatever I had on the truck And came to Los Angeles To record which persistence of time?

Just the time yeah Wow And how did that woman turn out alright? Yeah she's fine I mean I'm not in touch with her No of course You heard things? You didn't hear things? No I do hear things But yeah she's fine She's got kids Oh yeah It's nice when it works out When you're the asshole It's nice to hear like Oh she's better off She's way better off Trust me I didn't Look until I met Pearl Anything I did previous to that Was you know I apologize Like everyone and anything Who's the second one?

Second one was I moved That's one of the main reasons I came out to California She's one of the women I was cheating on my first wife with But that was I put that more on her than on me I was in for the long haul On that one And I'd have to say She definitely wasn't How long did that last? Let's say 90 to 97 We weren't married that whole time We got married in that window But then yeah Then that was done For me 97 to 2000 Were like my That's my crazy years I was pretty much back in New York City Back and forth But in New York a lot of the time Going out and just really raging And we were touring too The band was still touring But you were like No not going to be tied down Let's just go No and that's when I started drinking I started drinking really in 1997 And that was your primary thing? No before I never I've been to my spots once in a while I drink beer or wine Oh but you started hitting it huh? Oh hardcore 97 Oh yeah?

Big time Bottles of whiskey Oh really? Daryl from Pantera taught me how to do that That's a long story But yeah he literally He was my Yoda I was his Padawan After the second divorce Daryl was like I'm going to teach you how to really Well I asked him I said to him I said hey man Because Pantera asked us to come out On tour with them For a few months This is at the end of 97 And I said to him Hey I made an adult decision At the age of 33 I'm going to learn how to drink I'm going to drink whatever you drink He's like are you drunk now? Like no dude I'm being totally serious Like I want to learn At the hands of them Oh that's interesting You didn't have the compulsion But you were like It's time to live hard I needed to make a change in my life And that was I felt like I had failed twice In relationships The band was not doing well At that time in the late 90s We weren't doing so well It was really really hard For most metal At that point in time The draw was drifting Everything yeah And when did John Bush come on? 93 92 he joined And his first record with him Sound of White Noise Came out in 93 What happened with Joe?

Which did great But then by 95 The next album Like everybody disappeared I don't know where everybody went You like the Sound of White Noise? I love that record And what happened with Joe? You know again Like I said I apologize I just truly didn't have the patience anymore Lead singers are hard for you huh? They were Yeah they were But not anymore I think my biggest problem was I was writing the words And I couldn't deal with the fact anymore That someone else was singing my lyrics But I couldn't sing There's no way I could be the singer That's what it was about I think it really really did come down to that That you couldn't stand it anymore But you felt it was your emotions?

Or you didn't like the way they were phrasing it? I mean what was Both Both Like people that You know that It's just these are my words These are my feelings It's my emotions And you're not You're not me Yeah You know And yes And then even like learning the songs And like hearing them back Like that's not how I hear it in my head No no like this like this But you had no solution No it wasn't my solution at the time Was turning around to the rest of the band And saying it's either him or me I pulled the same shit Neil Turbin pulled years before that I said I can't do this again We need to make a change More to do with Sound of White Noise Yeah The first John Bush record Than it has to do with Stade Euphoria The previous Anthrax album Musically we were already Right Going somewhere else But Joey for us I guess at the time felt like He's not representing us anymore He was the 80s Of course Exactly Of course I spent a year of my life writing a book And like looking back on that time And really kind of getting back into those shoes And you know We should have given the guy a shot Why we didn't give him a shot I really don't know why we weren't able to Because I even remember I remember Johnny Z Our manager He was are you sure Are you sure This is the decision you want to make Yes yes yes Did you feel pressure because of the You know like even the nature of a front man Stylistically I wanted it to be harder Right I wanted what I wanted I couldn't do it But I wanted someone who could almost You know someone just I wanted it to be harder I didn't want Lemmy Right You know I didn't want it to sound like that I just wanted it to be harder And John brought it Yeah John brought it Yeah For sure And so that was a change You know you went deeper and harder And it sort of you know It was metal itself I guess because of what Because of grunge and everything else That you know there was a more Alternative hard rock thing happening That it swung the pendulum back You know Trust me I've thought a lot about this Because like I said Sound of White Noise is great Yeah Out of the box You know gold record And then you know Went on to sell a platinum record And we were playing big shows And then in 95 When the next record Stomp 442 was coming out Electra went through a shift We had signed to Electra as well So it was a crazy big deal For Sound of White Noise He ended up at Electra anyway Yeah And Stomp was coming out Electra had gone through a huge upheaval Everyone we worked with was gone Bob Krasnow Who was the head He was a true record man He was gone And they bring in this woman Sylvia Rohn Who she signed in Vogue She was really successful with that Yeah And uh It's weird how the record business works It's just product man Yeah And the first thing she said to her manager When he walked in to have a meeting About starting to set up The new Anthrax album She like drops the contract On the desk And basically says I never would have signed this band I never would have done this deal What are we doing What's going to happen Oh a great way to start a meeting And uh I can only think I learned over there I used to not be able To point the finger at myself For sure I blame everyone for everything For a long time in my life But for a long time in my life I've been able to point the finger at myself And I will not say That we made a record That was terrible It's not because of the record we made Sound 442 We did not make a record It's not like we made a jazz record I mean Sound of White Noise The first week it came out In 93 We sold like 100 and something Copies in a week Of that record Stomp comes out two years later And then the first week Does like 29,000 You know what I mean It goes on to sell about 150 Sound of White Noise It's a platinum record How did you go from like a million To 150,000 in two years Yeah Those fans couldn't have all disappeared Yeah I still to this day Don't have the answer And what was the band's reaction to Stomp The people who got it loved it Was the production different No No not so different than Sound of White Noise A harder record than Sound of White Noise Like some harder material We had Dimebag Daryl playing solos on the album Like it seemed to have everything going for it Were you drinking then? No not yet Yeah Oh shit Well it was after that Because that album went in the toilet basically Our career started The money started to dry up Career's going in the toilet Second Marriage Yeah Second Marriage is done We start working on another record That's going to come out in 1998 Called Volume 8 We don't even have a record deal So yeah So in the end of 97 That's when I was like I need to make a change in my life For the worst I'm going to stop being responsible Really I decided I don't want to be with this guy anymore I don't want to be the captain of this shit I don't want Like I'm going to go fucking crazy For the first time in my life And I did for years And what do you think of those records You made like that? What did you make like that?

Or did you not do any records? I didn't make a record like that You didn't really make a record like that Volume 8 was just the beginning of it So I wasn't in the depths yet And did you lose friends? Did you lose any members of your band? No No I wasn't an asshole I'm a fun drunk So I wasn't an asshole in that way We just were raging It wasn't just me You were in shows though Yeah yeah John Bush John was my trigger partner In those years In the early 90s John and I got way into Bukowski Oh sure yeah And like everybody does at some point We got way into Bukowski And we tried our hardest I mean we weren't fucking whores And I wasn't living in East Hollywood But when it came to booze We were trying our hardest Oh yeah And how did it get bad?

I mean did it get tragic? Did some shit go down? What stopped it? No no I just I met Pearl in 2000 Who was a fucking angel Yeah but she wasn't then She was but she wasn't She could out drink me Even now still I only know her from meeting her a few times And she's sort of a transcendent type of person She is absolutely And I saw that in 2000 When she was in a blue latex rubber cop dress Seeming backup for Motley Crue Who Anthrax was opening for And I was like love at first sight But I have no game Nothing I don't know how to pick up chicks I do pretty well in my drunken years Because you'd just be out at bars You're a drunk idiot And you'd end up The next day being like Ugh Yeah exactly I gotta go Well I gotta say your beard Doesn't imply game right away No not at all My beard basically says Stay the fuck away from me So how did you charm Pearl?

We became drinking buddies Yeah Because Motley was a sober tour At the time for Motley And so Pearl and the other Backup singer Marty This other girl They were hanging out with Anthrax on the Anthrax bus Because me and John And Frankie are a bass player We hit it pretty hard every night And so they started hanging out with us We were drinking buddies For like a month And then Motley's management calls up And says we need to take Cutting our pay on the tour Because tickets weren't selling so well Blah blah blah Like we can't We're just scraping by As it is on this Running like Alright well we can't keep paying you You'll just have to go home And bummer I had nothing against Nikki Or the dudes in the band I get it It's business I was bummed Because I wasn't going to see Pearl For six more weeks Until she got home to Los Angeles I was losing my mind So I would go to this bar Daddy's every night on Vine Where my neighbor worked I would get a ride with him I would start drinking at five And then drink until the bartenders Were done drinking at like four No other drugs? No So you're home just drinking And then I would walk home Like back to I'd walk back home four miles Because I think if I didn't walk I would literally die I would be so drunk So you were sort of a beaten man I mean you were sort of washed up I was But I had this light Named Pearl That I had this focus And I knew she was coming home The beginning of September And she gets home from tour And like call her Hey there's these bands Playing at the Troubadour And High on Fire and Nebula Like really cool bands You want to go? It's like sure I had written her a letter On paper? Yeah on paper Wrote her a letter To her on tour And I told her how I felt about it And she never answered that We would talk all the time But she never Did you write it drunk?

She never No no This was like a really heartfelt four page Like you're it? Yeah like I'm in love with you And then we would still talk But she never brought out the letter And I didn't have the balls To ask her about the letter And I just figured out We're friends That's it We'll be friends I'm crushed But we'll be friends At least I can be friends With this rad lady And we went out to High on Fire That night at the Troubadour I brought my friend Kenny with me Because I was like nervous But we just fell right back In the same thing We ordered some drinks And hung out and watched some bands And hung out that night And I wanted to say What are you doing tomorrow night? Nothing You want to hang out And that was September 9th 2000 We've been together ever since You never brought up the letter? Oh no of course I did Yeah eventually What about the letter?

And she told me She said it was so amazing Every time I would try and respond I was trying to respond And write a letter back I would just tear it up I couldn't I was so blown away by your letter And of course then me the idiot Waiting around to make a move on her And meanwhile she felt the same way about me So obviously everything worked out 16 years later You got a kid Yeah so I finally met the woman I was supposed to meet But we raged hard Those first few years Up until about Probably sometime in 2003 We were still hitting it hard And then it's like We kind of like We probably don't need to go to the car Five nights a week anymore Like we're really happy And then we started to take her off after that Yeah and you just slowed it down? Yeah just kind of started to slow it down It's just like I think we were both fulfilled in our lives And lo and behold Afterx's career The new millennium came And then things started to turn around again How those parallels in your personal life And professional life What was the resurgence? We've come for you all? Yeah we've come for you all That kind of reopened the door for us For whatever reason Whether it was because we wrote better songs Or just people All of a sudden there was a new blood out there For Harry's bands You know whatever it was But yeah yeah Everything just started to click again What a great fucking story And you were able to play Yankee Stadium?

Yeah yeah 2011 I mean the worship music thing Is the real You know that's the real comeback But yeah yeah Playing Yankee Stadium in 2011 Who was on that tour? That was the big four Right it was Megadeth Who was it? Sway or Megadeth? Us and Metallica Yeah and you know Metallica calls up and says You want to do some big four shows With the four bands The four thrash bands You know and yes of course You were the Wait was it big for you?

No that phrase was coined At some point in the late 80s By a writer Where we were known as The big four of thrash metal The bands that basically Wrought thrash to the world I always thought It should have been the big five Because there was a band Called Exodus out of San Francisco Who were just as important Kirk Hammett from Metallica Was actually in Exodus He replaced Dave in Metallica I always thought Exodus Should have been a part of that And now Gary Holt from Exodus Is in Slayer too So it kind of all worked out In a weird way So the big four thing You were part of that idea From the beginning Yeah yeah always And how was that tour How did you all get along Amazing amazing Metallica the first big four show Was in Poland in 2010 In Warsaw And we know there's been 120,000 people there In this airfield And so we find out From management My initial reaction was kind of like That's weird We all know each other's wives And the offensive pro was with me And like you know It was kind of weird And I remember even calling Kirk Going you know You're not bringing Lonnie You know what's up He's like yeah We just wanted to be the dudes Okay fine fine Just to make sure That everything was clear Well they just had a really good idea That this is going to be the first time All of us are just going to be In a room together We've all seen each other But it's Mustaine and Megadeth Right but they've seen each other But not all together at once Like we've toured with Slayer We've toured with Megadeth Slayer We've toured with Metallica We've toured with Metallica Just the dudes Just the dudes And man the vibe was just It was amazing It was electric to be in that room And everybody just hugging And shaking hands And talking And like just smiling and laughing And it's like oh There's Mustaine and like Hetfield And there's Mustaine I was like standing there Like with someone Maybe from Slayer Just looking at like Dave and Kirk Like hugging him I'm like never thought I'd see that You know just like It was an incredible night Like it went on for about four hours And then they said Now why if anyone else Come to the bar And then girlfriends came Some crew dudes came And then you know Turned into a big party But for those four hours It really was Like it really made a connection If you can't see me But I got my fingers Interlaced We're all in your 50s Yeah we're all in our 40s At that point Yeah and it's like You know let it go right Yeah exactly And then just to be able to say Like can you fucking believe this Like we were all For fucking 35 years We were a bunch of asshole kids In 1985 Like when it all really First started to roll And like you know Just doing whatever we could To survive And get people to know our bands And we're going to play To 120,000 people tomorrow You know because they love this music That we created It was an amazing moment To like to own that I don't think I ever sat around And thought about that Before that night Like to own that And to really feel it And to be in the room With your peers Who were there And egos were sort of Put aside a little bit Gone you know And Metallica really set the tone For all the shows we did On the big fourth tour They really set the tone And it felt like that From that first show When Paul into Yankee Stadium A year or so later It really felt like that All the way through They really did it right And then you did a record With Joey Yes well talk about Parallels in your life Like go back to Spreading the disease In 1984 We have a record That's recorded without a singer And we find Joey Joey joins the band Elevates Anthrax To a whole new thing We go out on tour For a year and a half And we become the band We don't have a singer Joey joins the band again We go out on tour With Megadeth and Slayer In the fall of 2000 What happened with John? John had already been out Since 2005 There's a lot of jumping around In these years But in 2005 and 2006 We went out and did a reunion tour With Joey and the original lead player Dan Spitz Basically to get us to clear our slate Got us a lot of bad deals We did like a record in a DVD And blah blah blah And that cleared the slate for us Financially? Yeah With contract Yeah Because we couldn't move forward And make another studio record In the deals we were in So we were going to break up the band That was the choice And our manager said If you go to the reunion tour Still John Easy? With John and Joey Together Make that happen But John was like No way I don't want it That's stupid Go do your thing with Joey That makes the most sense for you guys And go do it He was very much a man about the whole thing But after that In 2006 when the reunion tour thing ended And you know In my hubris thinking We'll just go now back to work with John He's like no I've got a kid now I don't want to do that anymore I'm done He's alright though?

That's great We're still friends And in 2010 So we got worse at music finish We don't have a singer We call Joey Belladonna We go out on tour Anthrax Slayer Megadeth We do this big tour around the states With Joey Yeah with Joey We start playing him the new music We record a bunch of it We write stuff He goes in the studio Records the vocals And we listen back And we're like Unbelievable It's the missing piece It's the missing piece of the puzzle And then worse at music Blew up Put us back on the map In a really big way And so now here we are Beginning of 2016 With a record about to come out It's the best thing we've ever done Because Joey rejoined And then we were able to go out for three years And just be Anthrax again And become the band that could write For All Kings The new record It's such a parallel to How it was on Spreading and Among But it's so sweet That this stuff That these changes With you and with the band With everything else This full circle thing And this sort of amazing respect From the other bands From the fans And then to be rejoined By the singer that made you guys It's a beautiful story It really is You're still in a functioning Relevant band You didn't become a fucking monster Or a joke Well that's why I didn't realize I had a story to tell Until I started going out And doing my talking shows Because I've always In a sense I'm a frustrated stand up I can't write jokes But I can tell a fucking story And in 2012 I got this offer in London To come tell stories I was like Fuck it I'm doing that Because I would see Henry Rollins Do it for years And I'd be like I would love to try that someday But never was out there Actively pursuing it And then it fell in my lap So it was the night before We were starting a tour With Motorhead At the end of 2012 And I got up at this venue In London It was Builders Rockstars Say the stupidest things Or something like that And I had no idea What I was doing But I knew I had great stories And I got on stage And I opened my show With this It was like 4 in the morning And I woke up in a sweat Like in a panic Thinking like I don't know what I'm doing I can't How am I going on stage To just talk to people With my guitar And how do I open What do I just walk on stage So I don't have jokes What am I going to do How are you guys How do you even start the show And then I got this idea I'm immediately like Somehow what if I acted Like I was reading from a book And people thought it was my book But it wasn't And it would be something like that It would be so not my story And I called my buddy John Wiederhorn Who's a rock writer And worked on this book with me My book And I was like Hey what's a book like Motley Crue Like the dirt You know like super sex drugs Like heroin All that kind of shit Something like that So far away from what I do And he goes Well you can't read something From the dirt To an audience Because most people have read that book But check out Anthony Kiedis' book From the Twitter Because your audience It's definitely who hasn't read his book They don't care And I go online I find it I get the book First chapter He's writing about Sitting in my house In the Hollywood Hills And my reverie is interrupted By this fine lady Who comes in And starts standing up at work And injects me And blah blah blah I'm like this is fucking genius So I walk out on stage I don't say a word I sit down on a stool There's just a little pin spot on me And I've got it I type the whole thing out Into my phone And I sit there And just start reading this thing It's super boring Just deadpan reading this And she injects me And I start feeling the familiar warmth And I can see People who've known me for years Out in the audience I can see them I'm like what the fuck I had no idea When was he a junkie Right So I finish I finish this little short towel It's like three minutes And I finish it I lay back on the couch And pass out However it ends And I just kind of get really quiet And I take the mic off the stand And I stand up I'm like You fucking people thought that was about me You fucking assholes That's Anthony Kiedis And I get this giant sigh of relief And laugh from the crowd And then I own them For two and a half hours Really And it was the best I don't know that I had ever felt That high on stage Ever even in the band I walked off stage After two and a half hours of talking And I was standing in the dressing room With a smile A joker smile on my face And I said to my agent I gotta do more I gotta do more So we booked a UK tour Six months later I toured the UK with it I've done like four tours And I fucking love doing that But in the midst of all that I started writing out my stories Because I was doing these talking shows And I got about 100 pages of shit written And I'm like I actually have a story to tell you I've got a book And that's kind of how the book came together That's great And you had a baby Yeah Four and a half That's amazing And Pearl is a rocker too She sure is She sings her ass off She's finishing a record right now When I can Motor Sister that we do Which is a rock thing With another singer Jim Wilson It's just all music all the time And her father Your father-in-law is Meatloaf Your father-in-law is Meatloaf Well look man I'm glad we did this Because we see each other all the time We never got to talk It was fucking great I got moved It was very touching You know where I got choked up The FedEx letter That got me I still have it too I've got the letter dude I feel like that letter Saved my life in a weird way I can actually say it like that It completely saved my life It's beautiful man Thanks for talking Scott Cheers That's it That is our show I love that I love learning I love talking to Scott Again Anthrax's new album For All Kings is available now Scott's book I'm the man The story of the guy from Anthrax Is just out in paperback And the new record is great By the way It's great What else? Go to WTFPod.com For all your WTFPod needs I need to I was told I need to push Kansas City dates When are they? Here in April I've got three dates coming up And then I'm going to Have to take the summer To write a new hour So I can tour in the fall But I do have some dates And I'm not saying It's not going to be new material I always sort of do something But Friday April 8th I'll be at the Mission Creek Festival At the Englert Theater In Iowa City Iowa April 9th I'll be at the Rococo Theater In Lincoln, Nebraska And April 10th Harvest Bank Theater At the Midland In Kansas City, Missouri Look, I've never played The Midwest Let's not make me think I knew better So if you're a Kansas City fan Kansas City, Missouri fan April 10th I'll be there And I'm not going to play guitar today Because it's late I have to get up early I'm going to be Working with some Exciting actors tomorrow And I'll tell you about it Thursday Alright? Boomer lives!

Episode 685 - Scott Ian

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