Alright, let's do this. How are you? What the fuckers? What the fuck buddies?
What the fucking ears? What the fuck wads? What the fuck nuts? No, I don't know.
How's that one? I did get an email though. Right out of the gate. Small request.
I don't know if this will get to Mark, but here it goes. Hey Mark, first off, thanks for the weekly pods. They're great listening when I'm walking to class, studying, or just hanging around. In your podcast, you say hello to people.
Scientists, people driving, etc. I was wondering if you could give us struggling college students a shout out on a pod. Thanks again. P.S.
I think I've listened to your interview with James Taylor 20 times. Sweet baby James, thanks for everything. Ben. Ben.
Ben, I don't know what you're up to, dude. I don't know what you're up to, but you struggling college students, this is your very special shout out, Ben, to you and your peers. Don't waste all four years of the time you're spending with money you've borrowed that you may never get to pay back because the system stinks. Don't waste it all just smoking weed and drinking and not going to class or focusing on what you should be doing.
This is the time, man. Here's how I fucked up. This is one of the great fuck-ups. I went to college and you know what I majored in?
I didn't know. I didn't know for four years I was able to cobble together some fucking major because I just went with my interests. So I was able to cobble together an English major with a focus in Romantic Literature and a Film Studies minor, which you know what that allows me to do in the world? This.
So I guess for you struggling college students, don't waste that time, don't waste that money. I know there are no guarantees in life, but learn how to amplify what you want to be great about yourselves. You know you got interest. If you're just there by in time thinking they're going to wire your brain with some shit that you can use, no sir, no ma'am.
Pow, look out. Just shit my pants. Just coffee.coop. That was a classic ad brought to you by me and copy written by me.
So Ben, yes, I am getting a cold. Thank you for asking. Thank you for noticing that my voice is a little compromised. Just a little tired, I think.
Picked up a cold. Also had Daniel Klaus in here who was coughing all over my garage. Still a genius. Still a great conversation, but nonetheless did cough a bit.
So I think I've got graphic novelist cold virus germs coursing through my system, probably being very creative within my veins and my brain and my lungs. If they are the same ones that found their strength within the great Daniel Klaus, who will be on a show in the near future. Today's guest is Al Lubel. I didn't forget about you, Ben.
I'm going to get back to it. Al Lubel, comedian. Yeah, Al Lubel was a pretty important comedian to me and many others early on. He's got, let me just say, I want to make sure I get his dates right.
Friday, April 15th, Al Lubel will be at the Throckmorton Theater in New Valley, California doing his solo show, Al Alone. And he will also be at the clubhouse tonight here in Los Angeles on Vermont at 11 o'clock tonight on Gangbusters. That's a show they have over there. I think it's an improv or sketch show.
That Al will be doing some time on. And I think that you should take the opportunity to see Al Lubel. Al Lubel, I'm going to work with his name. A lot of L's.
Not my specialty. L's. Al Lubel is a very unique and singular comedian. So singular and so self-involved.
He might have just fallen into himself completely to generate this one-man show he's doing. But let me talk a little bit more about Al later. But let's get back to Ben. Ben, you wanted this attention.
You wanted this struggling college student attention. Please, please, if you're in college, please study something you're interested in. Get in it. You know, there's a lot of teachers there that can probably fucking show up for you if you know what you want from them.
This is no time to be figuring out, you know, how to vape while you sleep. Okay? There's no time to be, you know, necessarily, you know, doing mushrooms for nine days straight and then, you know, forgetting your name and winding up in water somewhere. You can do that.
But I'm just saying, don't waste it, man. If you're not going to get a degree that means anything, at least get the education that will broaden your mind and get you interested and creative about other things. That's old Mark talking to the young people in the only way I know how. Look, I'm not saying don't do drugs.
Knock yourself out. Just don't knock yourself out of the game. Dig? Dug.
Okay, so Ben, are you happy? Struggle away with all your friends. I appreciate you listening to the show. I'm going to a concert on Friday.
I'm going to see Joanna Newsom. Joanna Newsom was mentioned right here on this podcast by Andy Samberg, her husband. And it turns out, oddly, she doesn't do many interviews, but she's going to come talk to me at some point. So I've been sort of immersing myself in her records.
And she's one of those people where you listen to her once and you're like, oh man, I don't know. But then you're like, but wait, she's touched. She's touched by genius. She's some sort of savant of sorts playing her harp.
And then you kind of sit with her record a little longer and you're like, holy shit, this is the best thing I've ever heard. So I've been listening to a lot of Joanna Newsom. And it turns out my girl, Sarah Kane the Painter, knew her back in the day. They were buddies.
So Sarah Kane the Painter had a self-published CD of Joanna Newsom's that she found for me. And I got that. I don't even know if it's available on iTunes. I don't think so.
But I was able to rip it and listen to the pre-blossoming material of Joanna Newsom. But anyways, long story, long. I'm going to see Joanna Newsom tomorrow night. Okay, so let's get down to brass tacks or hurdles or whatever it is.
Did I mention I will be at the Mission Creek Festival at the Inglard Theater in Iowa City, Iowa on Friday, April 8th? Did I mention that I will be at the Rococo Theater in Lincoln, Nebraska on Saturday, April 9th? Or did I mention I will be at the Arvest Bank Theater at the Midland in Kansas City, Missouri on April 10th? Come on, Kansas City.
Let's make this happen, can we? Huh? Huh? Let's make it happy.
So, from here on out, just need you talking. I'm going to ease right into Alubel. Okay? Just telling you that right now.
I want to talk to you about the buzz, because now we're involved in this. We're all together in this buzz narrative. That is the... Yeah, that's coming through my phone-o when I want to play a record in my office.
So I pestered my landlady, Yolanda, who then called AT&T, because as I told you before, I'm basically sitting inside a cell tower that I didn't know about. But then I started to think, like, well, is it safe? Is it safe to be in a cell tower? And then I asked Yolanda about the woman who had the office before me, and she said, well, she was sort of a conspiracy theorist.
I'm like, when did that start? How long was she in that office? What's going on? You know, to have that many people's conversations plowing through your synapses every day through radio waves and your personal electronics.
How are the electronics outside affecting my personal wiring? So, AT&T sent an electrician over today. I went over there today, or yesterday would be, if you're listening to this, on Thursday. And I sat with him, he's like, we're going to track it, man.
Let's track it down. And he was able to isolate all the different frequencies that actually go through that cell tower where the machinery is above my head. And we just sat there with the fucking buzz going, seeing if anything changed as he sat there and shut things off and turned things on again from his computer to the cell tower. So I guess I need to apologize a little bit to anybody who has AT&T.
He might have had a little erratic connectivity around 9.30 Wednesday morning, yesterday morning in the Highland Park area. I apologize if you missed any important calls or any calls dropped on you. But I was trying to resolve my problem with my inability to play records clearly through my receiver. So I hope I didn't lose any jobs or anybody and nobody missed an emergency call.
But here's the deal. After about an hour, I am happy to say that I was right. It was AT&T's noise coming through. I don't know if anything's going to be done about it.
He's going to recommend that they replace that particular transmitter. I'm going to keep troubleshooting a bit, but that's what's causing it. In the meantime, I got myself a few rolls of copper tape and some aluminum fabric, and I'm waiting on some copper mesh. So, you know, I'm going to fucking nail this shit.
The Faraday boxing is still viable, but it seems complicated because I'd have to make the entire room a box. That would take a lot of copper tape and aluminum foil, and people would come to my office and think I had a meth problem. And I don't want that. I don't want that.
So right now, Aldo Bell is a very unique performer, a very talented man, a very interesting comedian. I did one of my first weeks working ever, back in probably the mid-80s, whenever the hell he just was touring after he won Star Search. I think he won the third season of the new Star Search. And I was in Tucson, Arizona, in my recollection, and I'm in the middle for him, and I was like, this guy's got balls.
He's so introspective and neurotic in such a specific and charming way that if you're a comic, if you're self-centered at all, and you watch out, you're like, oh my God, he's really nailing all this stuff. And then at some point, you're like, oh my God, he's nailing it too much. And then you kind of crave him just to talk about ice cream or something, or something outside of himself. But that's not Al's style.
And then I'd run into Al sporadically over the years, wearing different forms of sweatpants and hoodies and carrying stacks of yellow pads. And there were times where I'd be concerned for Al. I'd be like, what's going on? You all right, buddy?
And be like, oh yeah, I've got a room up there. And I'd see him in New York, and I saw him. And then I ran into him out here in L.A., on the patio of the comedy store, where he was doing some work on his computer, looking a little unshaven, but looking well. And I said, well, let's talk, let's do it.
You okay? He's like, yeah, I'm okay. So again, you can see Al, before I talk to him here, you can see Al up at the Throckmorton Theater in Mill Valley on April 15th doing his one-man show, which we talk about. Al alone, tonight at the Clubhouse on Vermont, at 11 tonight for the Gangbusters show.
And right now, I enjoy a slightly tortured, painful talk with Al Lubell, but an honest talk with Al Lubell. So here's me and Al Lubell. I feel canless. You are canless.
It's your choice. It's your choice to go canless, Al. Right, but I also can become canful at any time I want. Yeah, in a second, you can just can yourself.
Right, so that gives me the option. I have less anxiety. You can can yourself. Is that a term that you've created, canning?
I've never heard that, put the cans on. No, they're called cans. I think it's old-time radio talk. You want more cans?
You got cans? I think canning, in that context, is not used that often. I wouldn't say that someone wearing headphones is canned. I think that we might have explored that today for the first time.
Well, you did. You brought it up. I never heard it. But did you just create the term?
But it's an old radio term. I've asked before at radio stations, why do I have to wear them? Do I have to wear them? No one's ever said, put the cans on.
Well, I don't know. I believe that. But it really is a term. Yes.
And how do you know that you've looked it up? I've worked on radio for a year and a half. And it's somehow, a year and a half, two years, and I think it somehow became a known thing. You got cans?
Yeah, no, it's definitely a real thing. Okay, so yeah, it sounds like something radio people come up with. It's like a cool sounding term. Like a jazz sounding term.
Yeah, yeah. Exactly, buddy. So what is this record you have in your car? 30 years ago, I had this song.
You ever seen me sing a song on Al-Aubel? I think everybody has seen Al-Aubel singing his Al-Aubel at some point. America witnessed that at some point. Yeah, I did it on evening at the improv or the comedy club.
Yeah, yeah. Did you do it on Star Search? No, because they only give you two minutes and the song's 30. I've seen you do that song for 30.
I think I've seen you. I think some of us out here have seen you do the Al-Aubel song. When it's working, it can go on for a while. Yeah, it's funny.
One time I was playing Montreal at a comedian friend of mine. He was up there. It was the closing bit, the song. And he was watching me.
He got tired of watching me. We just left. He went downstairs to the bar. Came up from the bar.
I'm still doing the song. Because I added clothing. I started taking clothing off. Oh, really?
Yeah, you're just going to stretch that out. So it's going to take up the whole set. Yeah. And in theory, thematically, it is the whole set.
I'm Al-Aubel. Painfully Al-Aubel. Right. Everything I process goes through Al-Aubel head.
And I have to place myself at the center of everything that is happening. Right, but don't communicate. Oh, right. I just go a further.
Everyone goes for everyone's head. Everything. But I decide to call attention to the fact that it's me. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And how does everything implicate Al-Aubel? Right. Well, what's the song? It's just sitting out there on a record or on a CD?
I don't know, 45. It's 30 years ago. 45. 45.
I like vinyl. Yeah, I know. I'm just coming back into Vogue. I'm like an idiot.
I have a huge storage. I'm a hoarder. I can't throw things away. Are you really hoarder?
Yeah, yeah, it's bad. I mean, I could barely... I hold old New York Times editorial pages because I think someday I might read it. Yeah, I used to do that because you can look around.
I used to do that. But now, like, there's really this weird deliberation around stuff like that, like print stuff. Like, even if it's about me, like, after a certain age, I'm like, what am I going to do with this? I mean, what's really going to happen with this?
What extension of my narcissism is this feeding? Because, like, is somebody going to find this stuff and go, like, ooh, good, here's an article written in a, you know, a St. Louis weekly arts paper about Marc Maron that he kept... We'll put that in the library, in the archives.
What is that stuff? If you really need to find most of it, you can just go online. Yeah, but a lot of it isn't. And in your situation, they may put it in the library.
Yeah, I know, but it seems ridiculous. There's part of me that's sort of like, well, why not not put that in the library? But also, let me say, I have little pieces like that, too, that I can't throw away. But it's almost the sentimentality.
Like, this was written about me. And it's the sentimentality. It's like, it's horrible. I wish they didn't write it because I didn't have to keep it.
Right. But I do think it's garbage. But I have a problem throwing garbage out. Well, where is this stuff, Al?
It's in public storage. Yeah. And it's getting to the point where I can't afford to keep it. Where?
In what state? Here. Oh, it's here. I have two.
I have stuff from my mother's place in Florida. A little facility. She's in assisted living. Yeah.
But I have a big thing. I went to England like a year and a half ago to do stand-up. Yeah. And I put all my stuff in storage.
Right. And it's all still in storage. I'm staying at a friend's house. He's letting me say that.
That's nice. So it's all stuff. It's still in storage. And with all my tons of boxes of 30 years of crap.
Yeah. You know? Yeah. And I got to start throwing stuff out.
I have some of that. I don't know how to deliberate that stuff. I have a fantasy of just getting rid of it. I think it'd be liberating to get rid of it.
But there's part of it. What do you think it is? What's your fear around getting rid of it? Well, the fear is that I'll never see it again.
When was the last time you went through those boxes? I never, hardly ever. Isn't it weird? There's a saying, which is like, if you don't use something for a year, get rid of it.
Editorial? Actually, I've said that. So are you afraid to go down there and pull those boxes out? Yeah.
Well, my hip hurts and my back hurts. I should get hip replacement. By the way, we started, right? How old are you now?
Have we started? Yeah, yeah. Isn't that kind of wordy how old am I now as opposed to how old am I then? No, I understand that.
I mean, obviously, implied in that question is now. Are you evading the question? Am I evading it now? Yeah, now.
Are you evading it now? Yes, I am. I didn't want to talk about it. I don't like the whole concept.
I'm embarrassed. I feel age-wise I've let myself go. I can't believe I've let myself get this old. Oh, well, you don't have much control of it, but I will say you look pretty well.
I've heard that. But I look well for an old guy. Well, yeah, but there's some of us who have known you. I mean, you just told me you did this 45, 30 years ago.
Yeah, this is true, but you don't know how old I was when I did it. Wait, were you three? No, but you're saying I look well for me like you've seen me in other ages. You're saying?
Yeah, I've seen you in other ages. I've seen you with different lengths of hair. I've seen you in the streets where I've been concerned. There's been Al Lubell sightings.
There was a period in the Lubell timeline, I think, where many of us are like, where's Al Lubell? And then you show up. There he is. He's wearing sweatpants, and he's got some legal pads.
I hope he's okay. And then you get on the stage, and you just nail it. You just do your Al Lubell thing. I must say, I'm impressed.
You have a good sense of a person being in trouble. How can I help, Al? You're good at picking that up. Yeah, that's right.
I was impressed. I was impressed with your ability to see me. And you need Square that time? Oh, yeah.
Whole Foods? Yeah. i ran into you like actually in the area like walking on the street and you i think you said and i you know we don't have to talk about where you were at but i said what are you doing and you were like you were living at sro i think yes at that time yeah right yeah and i was concerned and then i think i went back down to like boston comedy club or something like i just ran into hell right what's going on with him and people like hello bell yeah he's like in sro he's walking around in sweatpants and my comics are like ah where the comics are poor al that al no i think that many of us you know those of us who you know you're you're particular like what i the guys that i know and i don't know if i can name names but we love watching you because there's something about the the honesty of your self-involvement that makes you know comedians specifically sort of squirmy it's like i think we're all him inside i think that if we just you know if we were really honest with how self-involved we are that would be us so i think there's people that always loved watching you and they're always happy to see you i don't know like in my mind there's i obviously don't know you that well but i know that like i when the hell was that it must have been in the late 80s when i'm middle for you i featured for you in tucson and that must have been on like that first tour or so after star search right oh yes and like so you were you know you had that juice like star search there was fewer shows like that fewer tv stations in a lot of ways so it meant something you got a lot of momentum you won it right what year 88 you'd won star search you had short hair you were an entertainer you were you know you were being an entertainer right in what sense like you were together you had an act you're moving towards something you know you know what i mean the alubel closer was fresh at that time right right and all i remember hearing is like he used to be a lawyer that's what that was what i was like really he just left being a lawyer to do this and he won star search that's a wild story i mean i never thought of it that way yeah well i was yeah i was a lawyer yeah well there's i've known there's been a couple i don't know if they were full-on lawyers but you know giraldo i think went to law school and then that guy mike platt i think was actually a practicing lawyer wasn't he i don't know why i remember that guy right well he might be a lawyer again i don't know um but where did you come from where'd you grow up queens new york really like what part uh flushing fresh meadows uh oh really i don't know if you know union turnpike st john's uh-huh yeah you're just a kid in queens i was reading that you know wayne dyer why do you say that yeah yeah dyer i think yeah yeah he wrote that book your erroneous zones yeah and also did you write i'm okay you're okay or no another guy i don't think that's another guy but he wrote tons of books yeah about about you being about uh mental uh spiritual sort of affirmative health stuff right you don't read that stuff no right i don't touch you i read some of that stuff like i like eckhart tolle you know him someone gave me the library you know and they're like just just listen to it you know while you're on the train or whatever and i listen to about 10 minutes i'm like no i can't not gonna interesting yeah no i can't you know i'm on my own journey of self-realization right that's right i don't want to get cluttered with uh it's like there's always part of me that's like who the hell is this guy right right right what gives him you know am i gonna believe the mythology of this guy right that's very healthy i think it's like we usually have male energy i have female energy no offense i'm not attacking all females but i'm just saying i was raised by females mostly my mother and grandmother my father slept a lot uh-huh and so he worked nights yeah so he's sleeping during the day yeah so i have this female kind of energy i remember a friend of mine we traveled across country when i graduated law school we both left law school and came to california yeah and immediately i had you know whenever we needed directions uh i want to stop at the gas station when we lost and he wants to figure out himself right yeah i can figure that you know i can figure it out let's stop and ask you know i'm the helpless guy so essentially i'm stopping and asking uh-huh i look to anybody for the answers right i have this weak clingy codependent yeah i'm no one with that if i'm not leeching off someone's energy i'm nothing well i think maybe that's why uh i relate to you because i feel that like i i no i think that like i think you might be too hard on yourself because yeah just as i said that i'm exaggerating i mean there are other elements no no right like you know i feel like there's that's that's the sort of emotional vibe i pick up on but for me like looking at you you're a very well-defined human like i yeah that's because you probably think like oh i'm floating i have nobody i'm not connected but like i see you know alubel you know as this very defined guy like a unique guy but you're like you know what probably feel like you're disappearing half the time yes but in a sense if you see me walking on the street using an sro now how to find am i there look we've all had problems right that's true you know what i mean i mean things you know go off the rails at different levels for different reasons for all of us over and over again right i mean you're not unique in you know having the train go off the rails that's true i guess i'm just kind of jealous that you don't need Eckhart Tolle and i do you don't you decide that no i don't know i don't necessarily need but i just like i like hearing him talk i like him he's not pushing he's not pushing he's relaxed and i like what he says i don't yeah i haven't listened to him in a while i read some of his stuff well my thing has been that like i think there's a lot of things that make you feel good in the moment but actually addressing you know core issues around how the brain works or how we're wired emotionally i read other stuff uh it's usually clinical some some stuff i read i've read books on codependency i've read books on love and sex addiction i've read books on you know practical things like john bradshaw no no i don't read those kind of things i don't read the sort of like broad-based tomes right like i read you know either clinical books or books that have action in them you know like pia melody's book on codependency you know sort of you know breaking it down on how the emotional dynamics work and where they come from and what to do to the cognitively behavior from i said what do you mean how does that book have action in it well i mean there's there's sort of like you know there's questions that are asked of you to help you define whether or not you fit this profile and then there's sort of things you can do to start you know uh cognitively changing your behavior and mental patterns exactly you're a man of action well i'm a recovery guy so i'm wired like that like you know i you know that's that's where i get a lot of the basics is because i've done some recovery work i'm sober and and and and and that that method of self-awareness and self-actualization and and um action you know kind of they have there's different applications with you know codependency you know it's compulsive behaviors well i'm sure i have codependency and ocd and big narcissism but there's always been a big part of me that doesn't want to change that's afraid to change that's that's the most horrible part that's the hardest part right because you don't really have control over that of wanting to or not well yeah you can't force yourself to want to well no it's not yet i'm sure you want to but you don't want to do work and also i'm afraid of it right who would i be right without my bag of shit can you imagine i don't want to be anyone but alubo right well maybe you could like maybe whatever wherever you stopped emotionally right uh you know you could keep you could start moving from there you know it's it's never too late now you might be 14 i know right but you could well shrink what's told me i'm emotionally pre-adolescent not even adolescent i was like 35 at the time and i still feel like i'm kind of pre-adolescent i mean adolescence kind of thought of adolescence kind of scares me a little little bit seems kind of adult but anyway my point is that uh no i i am afraid but yeah i could be you're saying i could grow emotionally but it would be a different me who i am now is who i am now if i change emotionally yes i'm still me but it's a different me i mean i mean i wouldn't get hung up on that you know even people that evolve a little bit it's not gonna be like who is that guy you know it's just gonna be little things where you're like look i'm eating by myself no i know but i'm not right right but i'm not i don't care about other people looking at me saying who is this guy i'm thinking who i don't want to say i don't i myself don't want to say who is this guy we won't get that lost i don't think no you're right i mean i have grown inadvertently only through the pain of life right having to and it's not been that bad i'm different than i was years ago yeah and i've gotten over it yeah i'm just sadness i feel sadness for the person i was heavy heart yeah that guy's dead a lot of that guy's pretty much dead i feel sad for me yeah yeah you're grieving that loss of you yeah oh yeah well sorry so you grew up in queens you got what sisters no brothers no you're the only one yeah that's wild i've talked to only children before do you think that kind of put a zap on your head somehow sure like how well you know just being wild my mother wildly it took them like 12 years to have a kid you know my mother was like 31 my father was 41 and so my mother's wild everything me me me me and you could sense that my father was a little angry unconsciously i could sense it so your relationship with her relationship with you yeah it was being totally neglected yeah usually that happens anyway but this was such an extreme me me me me and i remember one time he tried to spank me or something she almost killed she was furious don't ever touch my son oh wow yeah i think so it created this awkward kind of he's a sarcastically call me the king oh and uh you know i mean it's a part of me has to say to tell some stories they're in my one person i didn't want to say one man show because that sounds adult i you can't say one boy show you can't say anything you want but yeah one person show yeah well yeah i'm just saying one of the stories she used to serve me food in bed until i was 17 and also turned my gv channel for me until i was 17 and it only ended because i went away to college but uh you know but until 7 i go channel 7 channel 7 this is really gotta stop that one this is really gotta stop channel 9 channel 9 i just hated the channel 9 allen dr schwartzberg says i shouldn't be giving in to you like this and then it keeps going channel 11 i keep pushing her keep playing she's gonna fuck yourself really storm out would she yeah and the next day the same thing happened so i tell that you keep pushing her during this channel changing ritual until she you know like so there's part of you that wanted to detach uh i guess if you get her so angry to break away yeah oh sure i'm sure i felt that i don't consciously didn't realize that but yeah that's a way of pushing her away well yeah trying to have a boundary right right no boundaries right yeah so like because i can relate to that you know i do that too it's just sort of like uh wow i didn't know maybe that's another similarity we have because of my my mother and father were not overly attentive but i think the relationship was weird i felt like i was like you know when you said before using someone else's energy in a way that i think i think like my mother was sort of like completely you know had a shaky sense of self and kind of used me as an extension of her so the boundaries you know what i mean it wasn't about me or letting me have my own life but she was so worried about everything all the time she just sort of i just became sort of this emotional appendage that she would process things through you know what i'm saying and i used to fight with her like that you know like there was like there's nothing else you can do like it's almost like a fight for your own you know identity right right so this went on to your 17 but like what were you doing in school and stuff were you were you like a ostracized were you a freak were you have did you have friends i had some friends but i remember it was a cool group a kid of the cool kids i was not in their group uh i don't think i wasn't a nerd because i didn't study that much i wasn't uh i wasn't really in any group yeah me neither and so i wanted to be with the cool kids yeah and i got myself into it by having them laugh at me that's it yeah i know that one yeah well you you could you could because you're so adaptable and without boundaries you could sort of like uh you know charm or humor yourself in almost any group right but the sad thing was looking back on it i would make fun of myself or i would do the stupid thing have them laugh oh lubel oh lubel so it was like i had low self-esteem even though i was happy i was accepted yeah i was accepted as the clown and not even good clown not even the smart woody clown yeah the idiot i was accepted as the idiot into the group oh no yeah so i got low self-esteem i remember one time thinking when i was like it was spring time vacation or something i'm gonna come back different i'm gonna be a different person and and of course i couldn't come back different what was your plan at that time do you have any recollection how you were gonna be different oh i remember one time not that spring one but i had a plan one summer when i was 17 i'd get really in shape and i would jog because i was overweight i was husky i was like a little heavy yeah because i ate too much because he hosted snowballs all the time sure yeah i was total my mother would just give me whatever i wanted i remember one time i'd come home she said i called them goodies where are the goodies yeah she had to have them in the refrigerator waiting for me and one time it wasn't in the refrigerator where are the goodies and i forced her to take me to the bakery to get the goodies how old were you but you're characterizing yourself as this weird little monster child oh yeah i was a total monster but yeah but the other thing is remember you asked me how i decided to change i remember so it was the summer i went away with a bungalow colony with my mother and grandmother and i was 17. like an adult summer camp you know bungalow was a bungalow it was next to the hotel uh kutcher's was a hotel in the castle yeah yeah and the bungalow colonies where people just rent like a bungalow like uh for the summer for two months right and there's activities yeah so were you guys very jewish i mean that's a very jewish thing i think it's become more jewish i think it's just the orthodox jews that go there no but even back then it was like middle class yeah it was middle class jewish we were conservative yeah but the community you were part of it the jewish community i was bar mitzvah but it wasn't uh i wouldn't say very jewish i mean people looking at us probably thought we were very jewish yeah i feel that now looking at you right right with the hair no but no i grew up a conservative jew but like i was in new york but that's like a pretty specific you know going to the hotels at all or up there to the catskill right did you see comedy uh yeah i remember i saw who did i see i can't remember the names of the nothing's coming to mind but i know that's why i got the idea i wanted to be a comedian because it was the only one of the few times uh there was like seeing people happy right when my family seemed unhappy right arguing yelling and not even not even that much arguing yelling there was not even that enough communication on that level enough clarity of yelling there was just occasional yelling yeah uh awkward silence and me yelling i was only demanding yeah i remember i once i hate to admit it here but uh this has already started right yeah okay because we never you never said welcome to the podcast yeah i'm kind of joking but i mean i like the technique of just sucking the person right in i do that later yeah so what were we about to say well i was kind of embarrassing this is your thing this is you love this and i believe i'm trying to have a conversation i'm just saying i'm just trying to talk to al lubella he was the first time we've ever said talk i imagine this is the first time you've ever said talk for a while with somebody no i have talked for a while a lot of people because i said i'm kind of a leachy kind of guy and i just want to try to get people to help me but i'm a little offended this is the longest you talk with me that you have to have me on a show to have a conversation with me i don't see that often when i see you it's like a happening like a weird some sort of happenstance where you just you wander in from somewhere and i don't even know if you have a car or you have shoes on yeah but i do and then we talk briefly and what happens you wander away we're kindred spirits i know that like if i don't wander away then i never want then you'd be living on my couch you once did offer in new york i was impressed by that you did say if you ever need a place to stay yeah and i didn't even ask you yeah and i didn't need a place to stay yeah but i was impressed but what's why i feel bad i had a good point to make no you're about to say something about oh yeah oh my god i reminded me yeah it can't be that bad it's not that bad but i wanted fake cybers yeah because uh oh my god that was the beginning so you're like what 14 15 no i was 17 i was 18 and you thought you wanted fake cybers i was 18 i was a freshman college you wanted fake cybers because i was a little older i hit puberty late i started having hair under the arms at like 15 but nothing in the testicles yeah and i was afraid to take showers in front of people because they would see i had puberty yeah uh looking back on it now kind of in a way how great a moment was when the puberty came you're like thank god no really i never really wanted it because ideally i wanted to stay a kid really i always wanted to stay that's another bad thing that set me back i never wanted to grow up even when i was like four i remember being jealous of a girl that was one no yeah that's the memory you have yeah so lucky yeah and but you wanted fake cybers on the list yeah well because i wanted to fit in in college i wanted to look older so i wanted i researched i don't remember how i researched but i found it was 75 dollars for fake cybers yeah you know cosmetic they do theater supplies right yeah so i needed the money i had no money i didn't work you know i had no uh so i demanded it from my mother i want the money for fake cybers for fake cybers and she didn't want to give me the money yeah and i do remember being outside in a parking lot outside a restaurant and pushing her against the wall demanding fake cybers really yeah pushing her yeah i want fake cybers and you're taking me there this is down the street yeah in queens no this is in maryland uh-huh we moved to maryland and so uh i pushed her not hard incredibly like wild right i pushed right yeah i got them you got the fake cybers i got the fake cybers and uh but this shows as an example of my fears i'm like a halfway kind of go halfway i wore them but i had long hair like this yeah because i wanted to cover up my face so people wouldn't see that i wasn't shaving right so i wore them underneath but i didn't have the guts to pull my hair back to show them so i wore them underneath and what happened was the glue irritated my skin after a couple of days i was breaking out the pimples so i stopped wearing them ironically the pimples made me look a little older it was the pimples because i wasn't even in acne it was a gift yeah it was a gift what was the gift the pimples like you know the cybers didn't work out but the pimples came yeah yeah but pimples didn't last for like you know last for two three days you know it took me a while to get pimples yeah but real pimples right they were real pimples yeah they were from an artificial source yeah but my point is i never did wear the cybers yeah yeah and what's my point so you call me a monster it reminded me no that you're a monster demanding yeah i gotta have it but to remind me you asked me how did I once try to change so I was going to get in shape because I was overweight I used to play basketball with the cool kids but I was never as good because I was overweight and pudgy but I was a decent player later but anyway my point is I used to jog every morning to try to get in shape and I remember an old guy used to smile at me as I was jogging by his house and I saw him at a party at that bungalow colony one day and he goes you jog really good and I was proud and I said yeah you jog really good for a girl and I go well I'm not a girl and he goes yes you are he was older he was like 75 and he felt threatened like his eyesight is failing but I felt I had to defend my gender he wasn't just taking a shot at you like a bastard no I don't know he really didn't see well but also pudgy no facial hair and I could see when you're pudgy and you have little breasts I could see how you could think I was a girl so my point is I came back I was the same guy I didn't change over the summer I was afraid of girls I didn't kiss a girl until I was like 20 and I was scared of girls when I was 17 at the bungalow colony some 15 year old girl set me up with a 13 year old girl on a date and I remember holding her hand how old were you?
17 is that illegal? no not the whole hands I was terrified I was terrified weird things happen at camp yeah right I was scared of her I was scared of a 13 year old girl when I was 17 so I was just terrified of everything fear has been my biggest problem and your father did he have his own pharmacy in Queens? he did for a while he owned a pharmacy with his uncle and then when I was like 5 or 6 they sold it up until 5 or 6 my father was present a lot in the house he worked until like 12 a night there he had self-esteem he owned a pharmacy but then he started working the night shift in Manhattan and he was home at like 2 or 3 and he wasn't the same guy anymore I was a kid so I didn't know what was going on he had lost his own pharmacy? he sold it but he didn't own one anymore and I think that depressed him he was always trying to buy another one but he never did and so that changed my father I saw him less and I think he was less he was depressed because he didn't own one anymore he worked for somebody is he gone now?
yeah he died years ago but your mom's still around? my mom is she's got assisted living she cognizant? yeah she's got Alzheimer's but it's oh I hope she's not listening she doesn't think she does people with Alzheimer's don't think they have Alzheimer's that's sad I'm sorry you go down there? yeah but she knows who I am still she's got the kind where she knows who I am does she yell at you?
do you yell at each other? not that much I'm okay when I'm around her she's annoying but I'm put your jacket on put it on your jacket she'll say it like six like your jacket on your jacket but she do that all the time or is it a new thing? no she's always done that so it's not even an Alzheimer's no no right yeah she sounds terrifying to me yeah but not really if you met her you'd really like her she's likable and actually when I'm around her I'm okay I don't like talking her on the phone but yeah so you're up there at the colony at the bundle and you see a little comedy and it resonates with you I see a little comedy yes it did resonate you can't remember the guy you probably know the guy yeah I remember like back I saw the guy like six years later when I was in law school he was playing some club locally Schaefer? something Eddie Schaefer or something he was like a Catskills comic I don't know if I saw any famous I don't think I saw any famous comics I remember Tony Bennett was there at the Kutcher's see Kutcher's was not like the Concord or the Grossingers the big ones Kutcher's was a little below so I didn't get the big Jerry Lewis had his own hotel called Browns so I never saw those famous guys but I remember from Ed Sullivan I remember Larry Alan King was probably the first comedian I remember yeah from the island too yeah from Long Island and so that was an influence survived by his wife right what a great bet he did it on Letterman sure he did it forever really he did it right till the end sure he threw that in I wonder if his wife did survive him I don't know I don't know I think he had a couple maybe I'm wrong but so how did you decide to go to law school is that something your mother compels you to do by the way just one quick when you look at the board are you looking at time I'm just making sure the levels are good because I gotta like sometimes I gotta adjust the levels so what was law school how did you decide to go to law school I mean you sound like a guy that couldn't do anything right well I could I got good grades in school I was probably 90 plus average yeah I wasn't much of a studier I was a last minute kind of person you were a bright guy I guess I was bright I didn't ever think of myself as bright I was a good honor grader first year at University of Maryland because my father was sick and I didn't know it they lied to me so my mother wanted us to be close to my aunt my mother's sister that family and that's why you moved to Maryland yeah for the freshman year and then I wanted to get away from the family so I decided I wanted to go to the University of Miami in Florida oh that's a party school yeah I wasn't ready to party because I hadn't hit puberty yet you hadn't hit puberty yet when?
well I don't know what you mean I didn't play to myself until I didn't start playing myself until I was like 20 what? I didn't know about it I didn't even know what it was what was it did you grow up at the Bates Hotel? yeah I think so the way I do my mother and my act people say it reminds me of Alan my life Alan that's how I do her you're my life I live for you Alan someone had a reviewer described it as the Bates like I didn't even know I was doing it so you didn't jerk off until you were 20? until I was 20 oh I'm so sorry well it's even worse than that a guy who turned out to be gay convinced me to let him by the way this story is in my act so I feel like I'm doing my act I feel like weird should I feel like I'm raping my act no no I think that in a best case scenario there'll be a few people out there who'll be like I gotta see this show alright that's true but not if I do it word for word well to make a long story short I was such an idiot I told my strength of the story this guy convinced me to let him put his mouth on my penis and I thought I was gay years later I thought maybe I'm gay I let this guy do this because he convinced me he said Alan if you're going to play with yourself he was my best friend who was 3 or 4 years older than me and I said look if you've never played with yourself before you really should start doing this and I got a wonder and he says Alan if you play with yourself you'll stimulate the what's it called the hormones you'll start shaving I go I don't want it he goes just play with your pants and start playing with yourself and I did it I couldn't do it so he said I'll put my hand on it and I was not in it I said were you gay and he goes no so I go okay and to me I guess words be louder than actually my point is so and so he puts his hand make a long story short I won't do the bit you want me to do the bit essentially I'll do the bit I don't care at this point okay so he puts his hand on it so nothing happened he goes look I don't want to do this you think I don't want to do it you obviously need stimulation I'll put my mouth on it I go look I'm not a moron just admit to me you're gay if you admit you're gay I'm not going to touch me but don't lie if you admit you're gay because I'm not gay so I go okay how was that and so he put his mouth on it and I'm looking at this thinking he's either gay or a really nice guy were you guys friends after that yeah but that's a whole long story I mean I was his roommate I became his roommate at his house and yeah it was like I never you know it's a whole long story did that happen again it did like two other times he convinced me he convinced me he took me to Jamaica with him we were playing in the pool and I dunked him he said I gave him a heart attack when I dunked him because I dunked him too long because I gave him a heart attack he said you have to you're going to have let me put my mouth on it at that point can I not realize he's gay like I still didn't think he was gay but I felt guilty I gave him a heart attack and my focus was almost killed him instead of this guy's gay and you know who needs to put their mouth on a penis because you've had a heart attack is this some kind of resuscitation I never heard of you know I mean it didn't even occur to me that's how mentally damaged I feel I was from childhood so gullible the whole world was going to give in to me to do anything for me like my mother would do you know everyone's looking after me even straight guys will suck my dick you know because it's all my health up whatever I'll need it's my gift I get the world today oh boy so what was your problem so I never masturbate so anyway I began masturbating I remember the first time I came it was a huge amount it must have been exciting not really because well how intricate am I going to get in this I mean when I came he was there so it's not that was the first time he had already taken his mouth off he just started I didn't like it and I didn't want him to do it he stopped they're on my own I came but he didn't clap or anything the point is the fact that he's in the room I think it ruins that feeling again it's like a boundary you were definitely in a little bit of emotional trouble and confusion and this guy seemingly took advantage of it it seems like that whatever insulation and emotional sort of inappropriateness you had with your mother didn't prepare you for the world at all exactly so I don't know how long that relationship lasted or if you still talked to that guy no I haven't in years and it lasted I got my first girlfriend I went president of student government in college oh really so despite yourself it sounds like you had some a way with people that you could at least get out in front of people and talk to people and I imagine that when you were able to connect and be funny that it made you feel empowered in a way yeah I was a good speaker I guess I could get good speeches and yeah I won the president of student government I remember feeling pressure like I'm now president I didn't kiss a girl once so how'd you meet the girl?
it was I was running for president oh my vice president the guy who was running my treasurer he knew the girl he was a ladies man so he introduced me to her and that was the first girl you kissed? no I kissed a girl previously one time when I was 20 this was late 20 when I met her but mid 20 I kissed a girl previously how'd that go? it was brief and it was okay but nothing there and I do remember and I did kiss another girl and I do remember actually I didn't have sex with her but I do remember kissing her but I do remember kissing her down below are you allowed to talk about these things? and you talk about whatever you want I don't know what I want I know I feel I'm being abused here in a way really?
because I have no sense of self I don't have no offense against you I mean anyone talking to me is abusing me it's interesting that's an interesting idea but you're not going to get away with that shit with me however much you don't know who you are you do I don't think I do know who you are and you must admit this uncertainty to everything no one knows anything to do I know but after a certain point now we got to pick it apart all the time the question is when is that point? when is that certain point? when you're exhausted and your life becomes difficult because you destabilize yourself constantly right this is true that with self-doubt and insecurity the more you shovel coal into that fire it's just going to keep burning down and it is and it's almost done what does that mean? well you know what that means this is a cry for help I know your entire career has been a cry I know I wouldn't even call it a career necessarily it's a plausible let's get into that let me finish this what's the point with the girl?
I don't know if I can say it well I went down on her it was the first time I ever did it it's not even a good story it's not even interesting but the point is she confided me later it was a urinary tract and not her clitoris and I was licking because I don't know what I'm doing well you gotta learn it's a hard learning curve that one it takes years right and I haven't spent the time at it I haven't done it much and yeah did you have a relationship with a woman in college? yeah that girl in college yeah that was a girl I'm afraid to mention names you don't have to mention names oh yeah sex with her and stuff and it won't okay so by the way you're talking to me now because you realize you're dealing with a mental patient yeah I knew that going in yeah you know what going in but it's a little more intense than you thought a little more it's exciting I feel like I'm being like I'm not a professional and usually I can sort of move people through their narrative but there's definitely a point during this one where I'm like I don't have the chops this guy thinks any one on one situation is some sort of therapy I don't know if I can guide him with my own experience right right yeah well you've been in the co-dependent you've read all the big books you've read all these action books Mark yeah I relate to you I relate to you like you know and I know it's an extreme but I know that discomfort I know the feeling of not having a defined self of not feeling like you're whole without having somebody else acknowledge you or want you or want to engage with you I know what it's like to be painfully possessive out of emotional needs that I don't understand I mean I've been through a lot of that stuff right I envy you I don't know well that all comes from anger most of my male energy is anger based right well Stephen Wright's got a great one I think I read it something like depression is anger without enthusiasm yeah right so you got anger I got depression right and so that's why I have a hard time getting things done depression I beat myself up I'm exhausted yeah I do you do a little enough you also have anger I want your anger I'm angry that I don't have anger well you have to just you know start turning it out on other people I know but that's not a good therapy point here's how you can help yourself stop beating yourself up and put it on other people I know well yeah I'm too afraid to do that I'm timid see I was a shot with your mother I'm comfortable with that timid shy frightened furious angry person that I was such a wimp yeah all that's going inside yeah so you get to where'd you go to law school at the University of Miami and you graduated yeah with a law degree and you went into practice I was a lawyer and I came out to California to try comedy but I figured I'd do law too you've never done comedy before and you came out I dabbled in it in law school I won this best comedian contest in the whole university and it flew me out to California here and I was supposed to perform at the Comedy Magic Club yeah but I played basketball I hosted a gong show when I was out there in Miami and I carried the gong to the gong show and the gong pulled my back out and I played basketball here when I got to California I had a spasm and I couldn't perform I didn't get to perform at the Comedy Magic Club my point is I dabbled in comedy a little in law school and so I came out here and I was too afraid to get into LA so me and my friend moved to Newport Beach an hour south and so I started being a lawyer there and I started getting some spots you just got a job at a firm yeah in Newport Beach what kind of law were you doing it was a small firm and I mostly did drunk driving cases it was mostly drunk driving so then I feel good about it because you know I can't say this after the fact I have a feeling everyone did it is that illegal no I think you're fine but I didn't feel fine for me and so at night I would do comedy where at the Laugh Stop it was a club called in Newport Beach back then in the 80s and so yeah and you were getting your chops doing jokes getting laughs going over yeah I might bomb a lot too just horrible I remember one of the bomb that comes to mind was I thought this was funny for some reason I don't walk on stage I crawl onto the stage and I'm crawling crawling to the microphone and I slowly get up to the microphone and I go I'm a struggling young comedian I got nothing it's too conceptual and that scared me so I started rushing into my jokes because back then when I got scared I'd rush and so of course even my jokes that I had back then didn't work because I'm rushing and also this awkward moment that I didn't even acknowledge I didn't even acknowledge why that didn't work nothing because I got scared I have the guts to take that chance that takes guts I didn't do comedy long either six months it takes guts to crawl for like a minute yeah but eventually it seems like you learned how to pace yourself exactly how you want to I mean that's just part of starting out the panic right so then what leads to you pursuing it as a career what leads to me pursuing it as a career well I wanted to be a comedian and comedians that I would MC for at the Laugh Stop some of them like me so you took some gigs going out with comedians yeah not with them but they were recommending me to the club for a feature act yeah featuring and I'd run around middling and they didn't pay for travel but if you got connected to a few of these things in Texas you'd be middled to make something and you were doing alright yeah I was doing okay one of the first was kind of called I middled for Seinfeld I couldn't believe like normally I don't take action and do things but someone said call this club they might give you a date I ended up calling and the guy goes yeah I have a week opened for Jerry Seinfeld so I middled for him and I got to know him this was like the summer of 85 and played racquetball with Jerry out there on the road yeah yeah yeah it was interesting nice guy very nice guy that's nice he liked you he liked me I think and he let me ask him all his questions remember when he said to me any more questions now he liked answering questions yeah and I had a lot of questions yeah and then he had to say like oh it's 2 in the morning can you get out of my room now he never did say that he might have felt that I remember being in his room and he might have felt that I remember watching Ronnie Shakes yeah yeah he's funny yeah very funny I remember One of his jokes was, I bought a watch, a very cheap watch. It just says now. Yeah, he's funny.
He passed away. Well, that's interesting. So you're working as a comic, and you're no longer doing law. Working as a comic, and no longer...
Right. I dabbled in law still a little, but then I realized I was taking a case with me on the road. I'm in the funny bone working on a law case. Right.
I didn't feel right. It was too much. I couldn't focus. I could barely focus on one thing.
Right. Not two things. So I quit the law. So that was like 86.
And then I started... And then I got good. And I was on the road for like 50, 48 weeks in one year. Constantly everywhere.
So I was just kind of starting out then. So we probably did the Evening of the Improv around the same time. Well, I think I started doing Evening of the Improv maybe after I went started. Like 89?
Yeah. Like there was a big push where it just was on all the time. They were constantly taping. There were all those shows.
Yes. Caroline's Comedy Hour, Evening of the Improv Comedy on the Road, MTV Half Hour. Yeah. All those.
We were all doing those. And you were all in there. But so when did you... So you did Star Search what year?
I did Star Search in the fall of 87. So I was called the winner of 88. Mm-hmm. And that's a big deal then.
It wasn't so much. It was kind of, but not that much. But you were touring as a headliner. Yes.
But I wasn't really ready to be a headliner. You know, I mean, on good nights I was. And on bad nights I wasn't. And I didn't have...
I had the material, but things had to go well. You know, they had to get me. Yeah. I remember one time this club...
And it really is... To this day it's kind of true. I'm better at what I'm doing, but I can split a crowd. Oh, no.
Yeah. Well, you're a unique thing. Oh, thank you. But it's hurt me on the road because, you know, as you know, if you're not well known, they really want the guy just to do the job.
Right. And have a lot of dick jokes. Right. And so I get in trouble if everyone didn't love me.
And so tons of clubs didn't want me back, you know, because there was always a few people just hated me. Right. You know, so it's been a problem. But is that what sort of started to chip away?
Yeah, me. Yeah. Yeah, the lack of work. And then at the cellar, the comedy store in New York, I started doing well.
Yeah, I remember. Yeah. But then I started losing out because I started like trying things out. You have to try.
Yeah. And also I was being pretty clean. I wanted... I was challenged by being not saying fuck, never saying fuck, and trying to be really having smart jokes.
And I would get in trouble with a later night crowd. They'd heard a lot of sexual stuff. Sure, I didn't know that one. Yeah, where you're like, how am I going to follow that?
Yeah, going up, how am I going to make them think? And then he was like, you did not do well. Right. Yeah, exactly.
So I lose spots. That is totally depressing. I went from being one of the guys that got every spot to nothing. But you did Letterman and stuff.
That came years later. Yeah. I mean, I did the Tonight Show with Carson. I got on right before he quit.
That was really good. And then I did a few with Leno. Yeah. I got like the six with Jay Leno.
Yeah. Up until like 96. Uh-huh. And then I tried to get on Letterman.
I finally got on Letterman in 2001. Yeah. And I did five of them. Yeah.
And so you did like a lot of big, important stand-ups. Did you ever see me on Letterman, by the way? Yeah. Okay.
Because I was curious. One time you said to me, I saw you on, uh, I didn't think maybe you liked it. No, I was like you. No, because one time you said, can I say this?
Sure. No, of course. You're going to kick me off the show? No.
Okay. Look, I've been an asshole before. How did you interpret what I said? Because I also interpret everything.
I know. So it might be me. What did I say? I'll tell you exactly what I meant.
You said to me, oh, I think this is what you said. I had just done Letterman. And I had done it. It was the first time I ever did it.
And I had done it. I found Letterman said to someone that it was one of the best he had seen. I'm not saying that means it was the best. But you said, I saw you on Letterman.
I go, what did you think of it? I said, I thought it was pretty good. He goes, you went, really? Was I joking?
No. Oh, I think I was joking. Maybe. Maybe not.
But I didn't take it. I took it like, I took it. Now, this could be my negativity. But I took it like, you're a guy giving shit to, you're a guy that doesn't want me to be confident and is looking for an opportunity to, maybe this could be my narcissism, like, you know, I didn't do the connection with Carson.
You were a big act to me. And then I love what you did. So yeah, I was probably a little jealous. And I probably was being a little bit of a bully.
I'm sorry. Oh, yeah. No problem. So I was rather than my intuition.
Yeah, it wasn't. But it had nothing to do with you. I was just being a dick. You know, like, you did a good job.
You were great. Sure. You thought it was great? Yeah, I was just a good job.
You said you did a good job. You were great. That's how you feel. I was always happy.
Like, I had a lot of friends that did Letterman. I was the guy going, why the fuck can I do Letterman? What ultimately happens, then, after this wave of success and doing all these things to get you to, like, SRO? Ha!
Well, it doesn't sound like you had a drug problem or anything else. It just sounds like you had no choice but to be exactly who you were. And you don't give yourself enough credit for that. You're a very defined act and you're a very defined person.
And a lot of it comes from your insecurities and whatever weird, you know, emotional wiring you have. But you, like, not unlike me, you can't do it any other way. Right. And that's sort of the curse of an artist on some level.
And, you know, it can go either way. And there have been times before I started this podcast where I was the same way. I couldn't get work at clubs. I was definitely not for everybody.
And I wasn't even as articulate as an act as you are. You know, I was not that together. I mean, you were a very together act. I mean, you were very deliberate.
You had jokes. You knew where you were going. Like, I didn't even... I was chaotic.
But I had the same fate that you had in that, like, you know, I was definitely not for everybody. I made a lot of people uncomfortable for different reasons. And, you know, by the time I started this thing, I was pretty desperate. So is that ultimately what happened?
Well, you know, it's kind of funny. But I'm jealous of you. Again, this guy, you have male energy of action. I had an idea of when I was living in the SRO of wanting to do a talk show from my bed in this little SRO and having people come up.
But again, it's hard for me to guess. Like, no one is going to be my... Well, I only have action out of desperation. I mean, I think you're overestimating my male energy.
I mean, like, you know, what I did with my charisma or what I did with my talent, you know, was push myself out there in a sort of over-the-top way. You know, I was a very angry act. I was a very sort of, like, provocative act. But that's not really who I am.
I'm a hypersensitive, insecure guy just like you. I just, like, and obviously you figured out a way to get in front of people and make people reckon with you. I just did it differently. But I don't think we're that different.
I think you're overestimating my masculinity. I mean, I do whole bits about, like, I call myself an alpha doormat. You know, like, I don't think I'm, like, some alpha dude. I think we have more in common than you think.
It's just my act is my act, both in life and on the stage at different points where I was a lot more aggressive. But you guys out of desperation? Sure, I just wanted to connect. Oh, but not money.
What? You could have gone to your parents for money. Not really. After a certain point, they blew it.
Oh, they blew the money? They had no money? Not really, no. I mean, you know, when I got divorced, I had to ask my mother for money.
My dad hasn't had any money for a long time. But certainly when I was younger, they had money. But that, you know, I haven't really asked them for money, except, you know, once when I was in the middle of a divorce, I had to ask my mom to, you know, get me over the hump. Right.
And, you know, and she helped out. But I really somehow or another, you know, found a way to make a living doing this. But see, I'm jealous of that. Yeah.
Because you have the dignity to not to just ask when you desperately need it. Oh, I would always ask my mother for money. Yeah. And she would give it to me.
She wasn't wealthy. But she would give me. And now she has no money. Yeah.
Now I'm desperate. Yeah. But it's hard to be desperate when you are older and you can hardly move. Yeah.
Yeah. So what are you doing? I don't know. But what was your earlier question?
How did I get to that SRO? I mean, it seems fairly self-explanatory. The work dried up. Oh, yeah.
The work dried up. But, you know, get back to your earlier question. How did you make it to the SRO? I don't like to leave any questions unattended because these questions are about me.
Okay. And I feel I'm being neglected when you leap over a question. I'm sorry. No, but, no, what's my point?
My point is, how did I get to that SRO? I don't know. Do I need to answer that really? I mean, like, I don't even know how.
That was 2002, 2001. Again, no work. I just transfer. I go from L.A.
no work to New York. I had a little work, no work. Go back to L.A., a little work, no work. I keep moving around to no work, no work.
Yeah, I couldn't headline clubs. I tried cruise ships. That don't work because they want you clean. Yeah, clean.
But they never say clean and not dark. I'm clean and dark. You know, forget talking about my hatred of my mother. It's clean.
You can't do that. I mean, I remember I have a joke out of nowhere. I go, I guess what I'm really trying to say here tonight is that I hate my mother. And I guess it's out of nowhere.
I got a decent laugh, but an older guy comes up to me at the cruise shop. You know, our women here hated that joke that you hate your mother. We don't like that that you hate your mother. And so I wouldn't get back if just a few people complain on the cruise ships.
Forget that. So that's out. Yeah, so no money. And also, I guess, I must say in my defense, I didn't go to my mother for money.
So that's why I wasn't an SRO. I wanted to suffer because I have this masochism and self-dislike a lot. So you wanted to maybe act grown up? Yeah, try to be grown up and live an SRO.
I was literally, I have a joke about it, literally 5 feet by 10 feet. Literally 5 by 10. I found out later, rooms legally cannot be below 8 by 10. It wasn't even a legal room.
And jail cells were 8 by 10. And so I was living in this 5 by 10 for like 6 months. And how did I get into it? Yeah, no work.
And I wanted to get writing work. I never wanted to write for others. It's the narcissism. I don't like to give up my thoughts.
I'm the same way, dude. I mean, we're very similar. And I've always liked you. I knew that there were times where you were in trouble.
And then you started doing a one-man show, which I believe I saw. I don't think you did. I don't know. I think I did somewhere.
Maybe in New York. What'd you do in New York? Yeah, I did in New York. Some of these people came.
I didn't know that. I feel like I came. Well, I started doing it in 2009. I've got a few gigs coming.
I went to these gigs here. And I figured, oh, this guy's not getting work. We'll cancel his gigs. No, we'll hold on to it.
We can take anything you want out. But do you feel like you're bouncing back a little bit? Yes, because I must say I think a little. Because why?
Because some guy's helping me with wants to sell my one-man show. Wants to try to put it on. He's taping and wants to sell it. Oh, great.
So that's a good thing. Yeah, yeah. So I feel in that sense I'm bouncing back. And I must say, I think, you know, I don't like to admit I've grown up a little.
But I think I've grown a little. So I'm a little more of a person. Even though where I'm at is pretty dangerously bad. I'm more of a person.
And I think I'd rather be more of a person this way than rather less of a person with money. Yeah. And also I think, look, dude, it takes time. Sometimes it takes what it takes.
And you have a difficult go at it, you know, emotionally all the way through. But it seems like your self-awareness is a little more expansive in a more proactive way than just sort of like, you know, like when you hit the skids and you hit bottom, you've got no choice but to look at your fucking self. In a way, like I can't go to my mother from, she has no money. So I actually can't.
I've never been in a situation where I couldn't. So that's waking me up. Okay. Well, I'm happy to see you and I'm glad we talked.
Okay, thank you. You good? Yeah. Well, I don't know.