Hello and welcome to Sick Comedy. I'm James Kerry and this is a second part in our Newsjack series where we talk to Angela Barnes, the host of Newsjack. And we also talk a bit about her writing process and also about her attempt to write a situation comedy. So that's all to come.
I hope you enjoy it. Hello, thank you. The host of? The one from Newsjack.
That's great. Newsjack. Following in the footsteps of people like Matt Miles, just the first one wasn't it? Yeah, they're Justin Edwards, Thomas Reganathan, Nishikumar, no pressure.
That's a great deal. You've done two series now. This is your third series. You've pretty quickly settled into the show at the same time.
You've made it something very different just by doing your own stand-up persona. So how would you describe yourself in your stand-up? I get described by other people as being world-weary and self-deprecating. That's what I get all the time.
And I'm really, that's not what I set out to be or just turns out that's what I am. So I'm sort of embraced that now. But if that's my perseignor, that's my perseignor. It's always to be self-deprecating response to those.
Apparently I'm self-deprecating. That's not another thing about me. Well, if you say I'm self-deprecating, I guess I'm going to accept it. But have you always done a lot of topical comedy?
Not really. I mean, when I started doing stand-up, it was mostly quite autobiographical stuff. Then you wouldn't mind that as far as you possibly can. You weren't out of life.
Exactly. I'll do it. I'll do it. I better look a bit wider out into the world.
Why do you go travelling? So you get to go to Embridge Show. It was either do topical or have children. And having children is a big commitment.
So I decided to do top of it. Don't have kids just for the jokes. You get jokes. Sure.
That's a big commitment. That's a long way round. Yeah. That's true.
Okay. So how long have you been doing stand-up again? Only since 2010. I did my first ever open spot.
So just eight years. Almost eight years. Okay. So did you come from Shobis World or anything?
No, I came from a background of... I went to Health and Social Care. So I just changed the nurse and then I worked in mental health for many years. How you working with other comedians?
Exactly. It prepared me very well. Yes. That's just right.
Joking apart. Do you sort of notice symptoms in people? Oh, I diagnose people on the circuit all the time. In my head I diagnose people all the time.
Do occasionally you have to diagnose and just say, Mate, you might want to think about it. We just keep it to yourself. I tend to keep it to myself. It's not my business.
It's never been asked what my opinion is. But oh yeah, you definitely... There's a high... And once you don't often get asked, am I mentally unwell in your opinion?
You'll be surprised actually. You'll be surprised. You'll be surprised. I'll be thinking these things.
Yes. I was thinking with Joey Brand when she wasn't the circuit. When she wasn't certainly the kind of stuff she had to deal with. There's a psychiatric nurse.
Kind of put her in pretty good stead when it was kind of midnight at the comedy store. Oh, yes. You have a stag grouping on a comedy club on a Saturday night. You've got the alpha stag who's desperate for attention.
You can see what you're used to being essential to your little group. You don't like that I've got the attention at the moment. So you do analyse people's behaviour rather than just take it personally. You go, this is about you, not me.
The things that you're saying. So it does give you a different perspective maybe on stuff that happens. Yeah. Oh, well.
Well, yeah, I mean, empathy for your audience. That's quite a good thing, isn't it? Yeah. We don't get the wrong.
We'll stop up now. I know where they're coming from. Then you feel their pain. Yes.
So obviously the main thing we talk about is news jazz. Sure. Listen, the things that they're interested in. So I'm interested in how you then came from that through to news jazz and the process of getting into a picture.
Well, I've described myself as a bit of a radio for comedy nerd. I grew up with my dad listening to radio for comedy. Particularly, news quiz was my big, you know, I loved listening to that. And then when I was in 2011, I won the BBC New Comedy Awards.
So I got to know people in the department. And that was invited to come in and do some writing on news quiz and on news chat, in fact, back in 2011. So I think that's about when Miles was listening. Okay, yeah.
So I sort of found my way in slightly different ways of people submitting at home. Because I just hadn't really, because I started doing stuff before NewsJap was a thing. That opportunity wasn't really there at that point. So it's really exciting now.
And then obviously when I'm doing standup, I did a series on Radio 4, which is my own series. And then last year I auditioned to host NewsJap when Nick Shannoutsley was leaving. So they held auditions and sort of invited people to, and here I am. So I won.
You beat them down. Yeah. Yeah. So how do you feel that, how much does the show is, you know, you have come to NewsJap and then how much is, you know, but you argue, how much of you is allowed in this instance?
A fair amount actually, a pleasant amount more than I thought would be. Because obviously when you're filling someone else, you know, Nisha, Four Seasons, she's got that story in there. Of course she's got to tell herself that. Four Seasons has hosted, he very much established himself in, you know, what his voice was and what.
And try as I might, I'm not Nish Kumar, you know, and the way that I write and I start are very different to Nishis. And I love, you know, big fan of Nishis. But I was quite apprehensive having to fill those shoes. You know, people could expect me to just do the same thing.
Yeah, yeah. Because he's quite, he's quite a news geek as well. Absolutely. And that kind of thing.
And that has its own attraction. But also, you know, not other people are just like, oh, you know, the Too Much detail. I think my approach is a bit more everyone, you know, and a bit more, you know, the person listening to the news at home rather than the person who's debating with the newsmakers. We're not wanting to get too diverted down the obvious route.
I mean, certainly the first 25 years that I was doing topical comedy, there were maybe two within that whole 25 years who were in rooms, writing or doing live topical shows. Obviously that has changed a lot in the last few years. And of course that has brought, again, a different dynamic to the shows. I think that's, I mean, I say we're not going too far down the route of the movie.
Well, I think there were, you know, obviously I'm the first female host of News Jack. And so you, I never want to make that a thing because it shouldn't be relevant to a topical news show. It's hard to remember, isn't it? It's hard to remember.
And also people at home will notice that I'm not a man. You know, I don't hide that particularly. And so you kind of, I did worry that I was going to have to prove myself in some way, you know, to earn my position on the show. And you get that in a lot of, you know, news panel shows, well, any panel shows, really, it'd be a TV radio, where particularly when the quotes were brought in a few years ago, suddenly you were being watched to see whether you were just there because you were a woman or, you know, so you could be a man on a panel show, not having a particular show, not getting much in the edit for whatever reason, no, you would notice.
No, you can't. Because that actually was the woman, suddenly you had no place. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what happened on shows like, uh, Weekending and News Quiz, which shows that were involved as a writer, you know, that a female writer would come along and do quite well.
But suddenly it was like all of them, all of them had rested on the shoulders of the one person. Absolutely. And so if they were, you know, like the men, they'd been doing it for a year and they'd need to have a patch of six months, where it went really badly. And that was it.
They'd finish the men will be okay to do it. You feel like you're not allowed to have a bad day at work, because then you haven't earned your place, you know, everyone has a bad day at work. Or a day when, for example, I'm not doing what the week quite regularly, and it's only in the last series, they started having two women on one show. And before that, being the woman on what the week, you felt a lot of pressure.
And the guy, it's only when you sort of talk to them about it afterwards, it hadn't occurred to them the pressure we were under. They didn't bring you into an office like, no, no, no. You are the woman. Yeah.
That's a responsible question. We're all playing the female character. You were exactly. But you did feel that pressure because, you know, if you've got four white men on a show, and one of those four middle-class white men doesn't say very much in that show, it doesn't make you don't notice, because it's three others.
If a woman, not many of her jokes get in or for whatever reason doesn't make the edit as much, because let's face it, we were called three and a half hours, it's a 28-minute show. So a lot of stuff doesn't make the edit that you said in the room that was funny. That's not the week, not the new set. That's not the week, not the new set.
No, no, no, no. But then you suddenly, you know, oh, we can't do it, because you'll notice if you're the only one there. However, you are the host of News Channel, and therefore you can inhabit that. And also the cast is sort of 15, 15, 15, so what are you guys doing to girls?
Yeah. So how have you feel that you're happy with your stamp on the show? What do you think you've sort of... Well, the nice thing about News Channel is obviously you're getting loads of different voices coming in because of lots of different people writing the show, but I get the little chance I get my monologue at the beginning.
So that's my chance to put my little stamp on the show. What's been really nice is that's the last two series of progress that I've sort of been able to do. As people who sing at home get to know your persona and get to know what your interests are and where your particular... So for example, NHS stories I always do because I used to work for the NHS, you know, and things like that, or anything to do with mental health.
And so you sort of earn the right to do what you want a little bit more with that monologue at the beginning. So that's not my chance to go, this is my little bit, or I can say what I want. And then the rest of the show is about facilitating a brilliant writing that comes in. I know you're not specifically involved in picking sketches, I'm saying, but other things that appeal to you that are more likely to get a good airing if there are the sets of...
It's really as simple as if it makes us laugh. We do the table reads, we do the... And if you laugh at the table reads, just when you're sitting in a dry room and that can make you laugh and you know that sketch is going to go down well when you put it in the... Those rooms, do you don't have to read it?
We do indeed. They are some of the least funny rooms available in London. Absolutely. So if you can make me laugh in that room, then you're all a winner.
I mean, in terms of what we look for in sketches is, you know, people get to the point quickly. It's a short show with a lot of sketches. And so we're looking for a good punchline. It sounds really obvious when you say it, but people often have great bit of meat in the middle of sketch, but they don't begin it or end it.
And they really keep it. We need to end on a laugh, is the key thing. And just brevity is really important because we don't have a lot of time. The soul of wits.
It is. The soul of wits. The property is the soul of. Not all games are that.
There's a way to take back that in Bill as well in the movie where saying things in a shortened snappy way is the soul of wits. Nice. It's just a bit of what you mean brevity. That's been the ongoing thing everybody that we've talked to so far to deal with the show.
Keep it short. I think that's the thing. I know when I stand up for myself, editing is always over right to begin with. Always.
And you go out and you first time you try it on stage, you realise, oh, there's just too many words in this. You know, and you have to still now, I will always over right to begin with and have to cut. So it is part of the process, but that's the other thing as well. Don't write sketch, go, that's that done, send that in, edit, edit, edit, go back over it.
The thing that always requires is confidence, I think, as well, it doesn't it. That's obviously the thing that's most lacking in when you're starting out is you sort of don't quite know what's funny. And the temptation is to submit a six page sketch, hoping that the BBC people will find the jokes in it and then will sort of let it down for you. And that's not the next time.
I mean, like you say, it's a time. It's a topical show. We have to turn it over in a day. And we have brilliant script editors who work till the early hours getting that script ready for the record the next day.
But there's only so much they can do. If there's 12 sketches in the show, and if each one of those starts as a six pages long, there's no way they can. And I think the confidence comes with, I mean, the other thing about being a writer performer is you get a feeling of what will work. If you're a writer who doesn't perform, that's a big long learning process, I think, to work out what works when you say it out loud, because jokes are written down and jokes are spoken out loud, very different.
And unless you, you know, that's where coming to the records can be really helpful. If you're somebody who wants to submit to each other, come along to a couple of the recordings, because then you see the difference between, you know, you might have some beautiful flowery language in your writing, it's not going to work so it's not going to work so it's about economy of work. You know, taking out every word that isn't necessarily for the record. I'm sure this is one of the occasionally when I'm doing a trip to anything, I might circle a line and write next to it.
No human being has ever said that. I know human being would ever say that. So I think reading it out loud to yourself. Absolutely.
You have to say the word out loud, because that's when you realise that, oh, there's a difference between written languages, spoken language, and this is radio. That's unsayable. And also that's what it's right there as well for people to remember, you know, so there aren't any visuals. That can be brilliant in that you can set your sketch wherever you like, because we're not limited by sets or location or anything like that.
But also you have to remember that it's all got to be in the words. Presumably just the economic use of sound effects, just to suddenly, you know, you can have, you know, we're going to set something in a Moroccan bazaar or something. And you can just hear that background noise coming and you're there. You don't even have to say it.
Oh, we're in a Moroccan. I'm kind of mad at that. Absolutely. It's amazing how you can just locate things anywhere.
You can always sort of, I mean, you guys will add a little bit more if you think it needs to be there, but that's very rarely going to be the problem, isn't it? Absolutely. They're very rare that we need to add. It's mostly editing and chopping.
Yeah, I think they've got that. No, no, they've just even liked it. So you do your one line, but also, I mean, I know there's a lot of one line as in the show. Do you get people helping or do you take lines in your editing model?
It's happened occasionally if somebody's written a line that really fits in with something that's in the model of, that's happened maybe a couple of times. We go, that's a really good line. It's a slot back into the model. But generally I write that and then the one line has come in throughout the show as the breaking news item.
The one line is it's so much fun because that's the one I do have a bit of input on because obviously we get 700 plus one line gets sent to us and I'm not one of the poor people who has to be 700 or 100. But once they go through the initial reading process, so they get farmed out to the different producers across the department who then sort of keep their favourites and send them to us and then we have on the Tuesday night before the Wednesday we call on. So to be myself, the producers, a couple of the writers will sit down and we have to call it the one line of party and we'll just read out the one line as it was and it won't make it laugh, get taken, the ones will be like, oh, get it. So that's a final set that go in.
We put on its feet there. It's quite fun to be in that. Do you think any, I mean it's so different with one line, it's a funny or it isn't but I mean even within that notion are there things that you think people could be doing that they aren't doing so much? It's been economical with words.
It's sometimes a very descriptive and you go actually you only need half of those words and it still makes sense and it's punchier. More words you put in a set up for a joke, just funny other punch lines to be to justify those words. It's a really simple equation. So if the punch lines still work, so you take out half the words and take them out, take out as many words you can, make it a punch lines still work.
No, I will go just one thing I remember from my journalist training. His trainers are journalists many, one millennium ago. And the thing that you always told you, your own thing paragraph has to be incredibly short and incredibly snappy. The way he described it was he said, you've just seen a building on fire.
You have just walked into the pub to tell everybody that the building is on fire. And you have to tell it and that's the kind of, you know, without thinking you will go, the building's on fire. It's on fire. It's on fire.
It's on fire. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that's, you know, kind of what? You don't need a word, just.
Ah! Yeah, yeah. If I should get it across the city. Ladies and gentlemen of the hostore, there appears to be some inflagration taking place at which points people are there.
The dead, yeah. More from Angela in a moment. Thanks for listening to the show. We hope you find it useful.
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So find out more on Facebook or our Patreon page. You can also email us on sickcomgeeksatgmail.com and find us on Twitter. Right, back to the interview. And it's just Angela and me till the end.
So, enjoy. The other thing I know, it's sort of looking at tea leaves, they've always been looking at me one minute. Also, I guess, are there sketches where they start and you just think, you immediately go there. You know, like sort of.
Yeah, I mean, often there's sketches where you just, you can see the punchline coming a mile away. And the problem is now with the social media age. It's that the first joke you think of will have been on Twitter five minutes after a story break. So no longer can you do the first joke that you think you're talking about.
So you have to go back, what's my third, fourth, fifth idea on this? And you have to really dig deeper because it's all out there really quickly. And so often, you know, you'll get scared. It could be beautifully written and great, but this has already been on over Twitter.
Especially by Thursday night, whenever it's actually going out. Exactly. So the sketches coming on Tuesday, no one on Monday, so it's getting so we don't broadcast till Thursday. And by then, you know, everything we first thought of is out there and done.
So we do look for the sort of slightly left field ideas or the things that aren't the first thing one thinks about. And it is amazing how when one of those ideas was presented itself, people are thinking themselves thinking, wow, that joke was there a whole time. None of us saw it. How many times have you done that?
How did I not think about it? How did I not cross my mind? Especially though, there were some sketches like that. One of the ultimate sketches was that you mentioned on where hands are either bad.
Oh, just amazing. And you know, every sketch writer is watching that just going, they've always had spelling crossbones on their uniforms. And we've never done that sketch. How did that happen?
Yeah, absolutely. It's so simple. It's so beautifully done. It goes back to what I've known as the, what we spoke to him.
He was saying sometimes the sketch starts, you immediately know this is a great idea. And the actual jokes themselves sort of doesn't actually really use it. So therefore coming up with the idea. Our concept couldn't be enough to get you into the end.
Because if you've got a really strong idea, but you might not quite got the jokes on that slide. That's why this could come in and punch it up. And someone to know, and you would probably know from your own writing, there is always that temptation. Are you by nature someone who gets nervous that you haven't written, started writing soon enough?
Or do you sit on ideas? My agent always says about me. It was a fancy guy's at home work. That's what he always says about me.
Because I hate going anywhere and not prepared. Or doing any PowerShell, whatever it is. I'd love to be prepared. And that's been a real learning curve for me with topical.
But because you can't. You know, I can't know what's going to be in the news next week. I can't know what my one along is going to lead with next week when I write it. So I have to write it on Tuesday.
And that for someone like me who likes to come in and go and talk about this and I know roughly where I'm going to go. That's been a real learning curve. But the nice thing about that topical as well is an audience knows that you've written that that day. So you do get a little bit of it.
So some things that might not get enough if they were just in a normal comedy club on Friday night. People would be like, oh, God, that happened this morning. They clearly just thought of that. It's learning how to sell a joke.
Because that's part of the performance. You learn that this is an idea. It's not fully formed yet. But on stage I can sell that.
Sometimes you know, a little outdated or something just lifts it to where you just have to trust that some magic on someone. So we can talk a bit about, we can hear more about your writing process. We've already done a series of your own, as it were. Was that, I didn't catch it.
You can't take it with you. So it's based on my first day of the show. So it is due to audience with extra sort of stuff. It was filmed live in front of audience.
It was mostly stand up with audience. In terms of your writing process, how do you go about that? And how has it maybe changed since you've moved from, because presumably there was a transition between you being nurse and a bit of comedy on the side. That sort of changed.
I think I was much more disciplined when I had a day job. Because when you have a day job, you know I've got an hour tomorrow where I can do some writing. So you use your time really wisely. And I think part of it, when you give up the day job and you finally go full time, it's great.
All the time in the world, so it doesn't work like that. You end up, I'll just put some laundry on and I'll make a sandwich. Or at least painting. Before you know, I've got to leave for my gig now.
You have to be disciplined. But what I have, you learn a lot about yourself in the way that you work from trial and error. I know some comedians who are very disciplined that they say right between 10 and 4, Monday to Thursday is my writing time and I'll sit at my desk or I've got room in the shed or whatever. And that's mine.
Now I know from me that just doesn't work. Because if I sit myself down at a laptop or a blank bit of paper, the anxiety gets started. I just can't be creative. I've got the whole world I can write about and I don't know where to start.
So I'm an obsessive note taker. I constantly have notes on my phone. I think of something. If I'm driving, I use semi to take notes.
I don't trust that I'll remember anything. I'm in my 40s now. I don't trust. No, no, no, no.
There's no. It's always the last one. Oh, yeah. Absolutely.
I'm a notebook by my bed just in case. Because I always think, you know, when you just want to see if you get that brilliant idea and then the morning, it's not. Oh, yeah. It's never a brilliant idea, by the way.
No, it's not. But just in case. Well, it's a sign that I was saying where he does think of something amazing and writes it down in the middle of the night. Next morning, he can't read it.
And it's just very painful. Serious, great idea. Serious, great idea. Serious, great idea.
It's all part of the game is working out what you actually said. It's all what she translated. I'm not going to be in that with driving. I've had two places that I came up with things most is when I'm driving and I'm in the shower.
And I think it's because the main part of your brain is concentrating on something else. And so your imagination can go. But of course, when you're driving, you can't, like, so city's been very... It's very much frowned upon to drive and write notes.
And actually voice recognition is now pretty good. I remember Andy Riley saying to me that quite often, he's using notes on his phone to just take straight into it. And I've just found out since then, about a year ago, I thought, I can't be that good. And I've actually done it.
I've actually thought, wow, this thing really does get it all down. Yeah. That would be swimming. So I loathe exercise, but I can just about bring myself to swim.
And so quite often, you know, I'll do 20 lengths in a pool and just sort of... And your brain doesn't realise it's doing anything and then suddenly you solo. That's when the imagination is. I have to say with swimming.
I have to write it down with swimming yet. That's when it's in a relationship. I've got a waterproof notebook. Okay.
Which I have my bath. And I also bought... Because I kept telling the ladies in the shower. I was talking about the shower dried and got dressed.
I forgot. I forgot. I've got... You can buy for kids, like, soap crayons that you like on tiles.
I've got those in my shower. So I think it's something. I just squaw it on the tiles. I'm happy it works for me.
Wow. That's right. And so I have all these notes. And so when I do sit down to...
There's a very funny psycho sitting there. A shower scene where someone's about to be stabbed. And then they go, hey, what's this? No.
I just want to be funny. That's not funny. What's that? That's funny.
It's just not marking your work. Right. No, you're dying. Sorry.
That's no good. But it's a good question. I remember talking to Carrie Quinlan last year. And we talked about that you need to find out what kind of writer you are.
So do you think that you... Do you think that you and this is a Stuart Gullson's or any of the podcast, that's sort of a comedian you thought you would be able to. Yeah. But have you turned into a sort of writer you thought you would be?
I don't think I'm there yet. I still think I'm very much a working progress. I mean, I'm seven years in. You know, it takes people a lot longer than that to find.
I'm starting to... I think it's also different seasons to me that you work in different ways. Yeah. And the kids are not.
And whether you have other interests. Yeah, what else is going on and what your demands are. But I think that what I have worked out is just what doesn't work for me. Right.
Like I say, sit down and just writing. I mean, all of people that can do that. And you know, some of the contract writers at the BBC, you know, sit in a room and just come out with a list of... We've just taken to them.
Oh, they're amazing. I'm somebody who I need to walk around a bit. I need to make my front brain busy so the back brain can do the work. That's what I...
Okay. So it would be just knitting or just doing something to make that. I'm not somebody who can just sit there at a meeting. And then when you do write stuff and you're just refining it in your standup or whatever, you know, do you tend to overwrite or do you tend to think about it a lot and then try and it tends to work better?
I tend to overwrite. I always start off with too many words. And I'll go and I'll go to a new material night or something. And then you realize, oh, this has to wait too many words.
And like, as sort of editors I go. But some standup sticky will say, oh, I've got an idea and I'll take it on stage. I'll work it out on stage. I need to know what my out is.
I'll go on stage. And I might play around with how I get there. The record. Exactly.
I need to know there's a punchline coming in. I'm roughly what that is. If it works or not, it's another thing. But I need to know I'm heading to something.
And it might be that I play with it another way. As I get more confident as a performer, I can do that. I would have done that five years ago. I don't have a stage on you exactly what's going to come out of my mouth.
Now I might go, okay, that's the punchline. I need to work to do that. But I'm not a great improviser. It's not my thing.
I think some people are really, really good at implementing. And that's how they work up their material. Whereas I'm more about the writing and then working at her performance. And have you been making also writing for like a retro?
Is that something you've been working on? I'm literally just starting to, you know, on sort of narrative. It's not something I've ever done. Hang on.
Alright, it's a completely different discipline. And you just sort of, yeah, at the moment, I don't really know how I'm getting on. That would be something that when someone else looks at it, it gets all full. Well, I mean, when you're writing me, it makes sense to me.
I wonder if in what way are you influenced by stuff that you used to watch, that you're currently watching? Is there anything that you're also aiming for in terms of... Well, the problem I have is that I have such a broad range of things that I like. And I found this when I started doing stuff as well, in that you go, you know, I like Nick Hell and I like Leimach.
And I like, you know, all these vastly, you can't be all those people. You know, because then you're not you. And I think the approach that I had to take with that was because you start hacking. I had mentioned earlier, Stu Gossmith's a podcast.
I was going to listen to that religiously. And I had to stop only because it was making me anxious. Because I was like, I must be doing it wrong. You realize you can't be everybody.
So I think taking the same sort of approach with is to write it, see what comes out. And see where it's the approach I take to write an edit brush. I'm not going to write a show about this. I'm going to start writing something and see what it becomes.
Because otherwise you could paint yourself into a corner. If you go, I want to write something that's like the office, then you're painted yourself into that. And also then you'll be derivative or of leaning too heavily on that. It's hard to be.
Your inferences need to inspire you, but they don't let them control you. You can only do what you can do. I can only write what I can write. So it sounds like you're because you like to preparation.
Have you carefully been planning your episode? Yeah, I've done it very much from a sort of coming up with an idea of the concept of what the situation for the sitcom is. And then sort of breaking down. So I'm very much like I said before a planner.
So I'm coming up from where has this got me? Is this something that can only be one series? You know, just something that can be ongoing? And then trying to write that down about if there's six episodes, then what needs to happen in each episode?
How are these characters going to interact in this way forever? Is there a time limit? And just looking at all the different facts. And then it's sort of like calling.
It's like gradually building up. That's interesting. Because obviously I'll show you fundamentally about sitcom and news about your way into writing comedy and then writing sitcoms. You're coming up with an idea of the way your describing it is interesting because you're sort of even trying to work out is this even a sitcom.
And essentially the number of times occasionally I've read scripts or people have told me their idea. And the response is, that sounds great. It's a movie. That's the thing.
And again it's all a learning process isn't it? Because you sit at home in your consumer. I didn't start writing comedy slides in my 30s. So I spent a lot more of my life being a consumer of comedy than producing.
And doing useful things. Yeah, exactly. Be a useful member of society. So I said, I'm not talking together.
I can't remember now. But I described myself as being an open spot of sitcom writing. It's not a good thought. I'm not an expert.
I'm just winging my way like I did with Sander. And just trying to learn about it. And so by reading books and by just sort of watching sitcom in a different way. You say, I had this lovely idea of something I thought would make a good sitcom.
And then you realize, no, that's what I'll be getting in the net. It's a film. It's a screenplay. It's a play.
It's not going to move on past that. And just learning those little, like everything has a formula to an extent. And it's how you, when I look at surreal standups and things. And then you go and you watch an open night and you see somebody brand new trying to be Ross Noble.
And I always say, you need the skills before you can go abstract. Picasso had to be a fine artist before he could then go and do what Picasso did. So you need to acquire the skills, the basic skills first. Know what a joke is.
Know how they work. Know the rhythm of sketches and stand up and sitcom which are all different. Learn the language really. And then you can apply your take on it.
But you need that talk it first. And when it comes to writing a sitcom, I'd write the beginning. Because that process of just learning what it is. Well, that's a good question.
Because, I mean, what is it? I think 15, 20 years ago, especially if you're a proper old sitcom geek like I am, I sort of know what I think a sitcom is. And that's very much based on what sitcoms were in the 80s and 90s. Which is, you watch an episode, forget it.
Watch an episode. Forget it. Watch an episode. There's no story arc.
The characters are all the same. I mean, to me, and that's how I watch sitcoms. Now I watch the Goldbergs, I watch Brooklyn, Nine, I watch Modern Family. And there's inevitable sense of which people are slightly growing older over 24 episodes over 150 episodes.
So I just got an offer. They're biscuits. And every biscuit is basically the same. And that's why you like those biscuits.
Because you know what you're getting. But now, if you're starting out writing situation comedy, are you going down the inside number nine route? Are you going down the office route? Are you going down the shaky cam thick of it route?
Are you going down the 2.4 children's studio multi-cam, citizen-car route? And there are all sorts of options. Various things are in favour and out of favour. I think a lot of people, if you're somebody who's just sitting there watching it, you're not really aware of those differences.
You just sit on a sitcom. You like it or you don't like it. Exactly. And it's only when you start looking at it, you go, that's why that's different to that.
And now, of course, you have things like that. I'm really enjoying it at the moment. A good place. But that is, you have to follow it through.
I've heard lots of people say that it is, and I've heard one person say that they think it is chronically overrated. Really? I love it. I love it.
But you can't just dip in and out. It's a story that is ongoing. And so, that's quite new in sitcom. I think that idea that there's a soap opera with a study almost.
There's a continuing story. I mean, if you look at something like Harry Potter's or something, surely it's a continuing story. And then, Rodney, Mary, Cassandra, and then, there's those things that happen. But you can watch that for the final series and the next day you can watch that for the first series.
It's not going to confuse you. No, not fundamentally. Even though they're very different in tone, which is very interesting, how in the first series, they're always sort of borderline criminal. Almost.
It's got a little bit of menace to it. And then it becomes more affectionate. Even so, it moves very, very slightly. But they are recognising the same show.
But it must be hard to know what kind of sitcom is this rather than what... Is this a sitcom or not? It's like, well, yes, the voice thing. That's the first thing.
And it's in a way. I mean, I'm always pushing people towards the biscuit style. Just make six and no one cares what all of they're in. And because I don't think the audience paid that much attention.
But that's kind of the mainstream audience, to some extent. They've got a whole batch of sort of comedy connoisseurs. Well, also the way that we do watch TV now is so different. You know, how often do you go, oh, that's all the money.
I can't need to sit down and watch that. I watch things on Netflix when I play it. So I do it my own time. I do a lot of traveling on trains.
Like I don't know if you have one. And I watch my own time. But at the moment, everybody who works in comedy and works in the media and our friends, possibly, we are all like that. I mean, I don't...
I mean, I'm over the last time I watched a program when it was on that he's in sport. Possibly top care. I don't know. Sunday night just feels like he should be top off.
But other than that, you sort of don't be out of sky plus and just bang bang bang bang. I've only recently got Netflix now as a product. Or having said that, our parents just watched stuff when it's on. My parents do take some stuff and they still want to take it.
I call it a tape in there. I can't even call that one. You downloaded it, can you really save it? Yeah, I sort of wonder whether we got this a bit of a chasm whereby people are watching it.
Because it's a generational thing, completely. I don't think anyone under 20 is watching TV. They're watching on YouTube. They're watching it.
Which is why I think it's weird to obsession with television capturing the youth audience. They're not interested in it. Like you say people like my mum who's in her 60s sit at home watching TV on Saturday night. They're not catering for her.
Or they're trying... They're obsessed with the younger market. And even if you're wearing a 60-year-old, women are not telling you all that. I think people are...
There's a point of viewing. Things like strictly or bake off and stuff. You don't want spoilers. You don't have to watch it when it goes out otherwise you're going to...
There are things that still up. I think in terms of series, people generally... I don't have a binge watch. And now, with a good place, comes out every Friday on Netflix.
You're watching an episode. You're watching an episode. What's a liberty? What?
I can't wait that long. It just so used to go right next next to the start. And the other thing though, just when you think you've got the theory down, you then go, well, what is the sitcom? What is the comedy of that kid's and young people watching?
It's a studio, multi-cam, ludicrously contrived, very cookie cutter, joke, joke, joke. And you're like, you're a writer and script in some ways, because it's so fucking sad. It's not the worst for that. It makes it sound easy.
I can spend a billion dollars if I could come up with that. So it's just a way of working as well. It's so different to how we make it from here. We just have a couple of people, one person, rocking back.
Yes, you know each other. I'm going to go with that. Anyway, thank you so much for taking the time to talk to us. Thank you very much.
I'm very excited about this. I'm going to listen to all of the news series of news jokes. And just listen to see how it progresses. The internet information we get is basically, submit week five.
Make sure you do week five. Because the submissions go down. And then they go up again. It's the last week.
It's the last week. I forgot to do it for the last three weeks. And also, you're here. If you listen to the credits or you hear the same names come up.
So it does get you noticed. It does get you noticed. There we go. Thanks very much for listening.
Thank you. Bye.