Hello welcome to Sick Compute, I'm Dave Cohen and I'm James Kerry and joining us again is the writer of the film writer and from Liffic, we were speaking to earlier Toby Davis and we were talking about your career the ups and downs and indeed quite a lot about the downsess and the great clone. We're all writers here, that's what we do isn't it? Yes it is all very well but not as interesting but actually the terrible thing. But actually you have had a success in getting a movie made.
Two of my second movies make the cinemas. How do I not? Okay let's back up. The reason this interview partly came about is that you put on Facebook that you've got a movie out called Gun Shy, I do and you can watch it on Amazon and I have done that and I very much enjoyed it.
It's very silly, it's very silly and look at what you would like to see a film in which Antonio Banderas is both A very funny and gets B hitting the face quite often and it will pretty much do the job. I'm sold already. Yes it's right so it's a lot of fun. That Australian chap is also proper funny with his sort of BGs like teeth as well.
It's a proper 90 minute romp-naf comedy. You're talking to the guy who on his top five movies will have nuns on the run. So we have very much, I take that over Citizen Card any day. Okay not cards.
Sorry, that's me maybe. So Gun Shy which is only realising that it's actually the most bizarre title but it's quite a good title even though it doesn't appear anywhere in the movie and there's no real. How did this movie come about and start with the first movie if you have to? No I'll go with this one.
I just had a just any other from my agent saying Simon Way to the director of Conneir and Tomb Raider and Expendables 2 and the General's Daughter was going it alone. I wanted to make a film of a book he brought the rights to. The book was called Saulty by Mark Hessel Smith, a really funny book. It doesn't adapt immediately to the screen.
It's quite a lot of dialogue and it's about a washed up rock star who's wife gets kidnapped while they were on holiday in Thailand in the book and he had heard I think, Mitch and a web look on the middle of sound on the radio in the car and it made him laugh and say he looked up the writers and he was with the cash register sketch. What was it about? He quoted it to me on the radio set. Is that right?
Without knowing I'd written it. Wow. So yeah once sketch can get your movie. Yes.
And we spoke and I read the book and I said what I would do with it and how I felt it could translate to a movie and eventually they said yeah they were telling me how they were going to put it together. They were crowd investing it which is in the UK. It's different to crowdfunding in that when you're on a private street buying part of your buying staker movie. So you get sent to your movie where you get returns.
So essentially if you put money to get our producers essentially. But you know without notes. Yes. And so I did it and they said I remember him saying can we do it in about three weeks was the deadline.
I said filming it in three weeks. No I think I got it. It's great. I see.
So was the film funded at this point? No. So the script was kind of part of getting it funny because it wasn't just the crowd. It wasn't just the crowd investing also from you pre-sell overseas films that you sort of say other churches say yes we'll buy it for ex-ante money and then that goes in your budget and then add your budget up to a final figure which is always less than you need by that.
It's an amazing outcome. Especially if it's a common It is. And the annoying rule of comedy is more money in comedy doesn't make it funnier. No.
No. It doesn't. And this was, and I think I did write a thing in about three weeks maybe four weeks. But of course the film wasn't made for the number three years but I was constantly writing.
Two and three doing different things. You've also got to try to track your star as a big part of getting any money. This weird equation to do is that there are only there are a certain number of stars that are popular in all the territories that you want to give you money. Right.
So you've got to look at this competent Venn diagram and work out who is the person who can say this is the person to talk to and then it'll buy it. But of course because everyone else is doing that in time. Everyone's offering to all these people eventually and Tony Van Deras has cast and he's really fantastic. He's funny.
He's the opposite of phoning in the performance. Oh he connects to it completely committed. He really likes to sit and he likes to play. So he's playing this musician.
So he's really throwing himself to think he's some of the songs on it. There's a deleted sequence which is in the credits actually this kind of Hollywood dance. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Throws himself into it. But of course you have to and the script changes so much as you know from that opening phone call to the sudden panic phone calls just before day one shooting in Chile. Right.
And we also have to rewrite it in the process before Antonio Van Deras to attract this other person. That's the person. Yes. Yeah.
I had to do there are so many different versions. There's a piece of Brosnan version. There's a Nick Cage version. Right.
Nick Cage was there. It was going to be Nick Cage for a long time. Okay. And it was a lot crazier.
Okay. I think he was doing that kind of real wild-eyed stuff and then it was more of a romantic in this version. Yes. It was much more of a romantic.
So we brought the relationship more to the fore in this one. But yes, there are lots of, there are loads of different versions. So you were shooting draft what? Oh.
I'd say probably 32. Okay. I'd say relatively something like that. Because also it changed location.
It was going to be fun in Thailand until very soon before we moved to Chile. Right. And so in that there was a fight sequence in a shadow puppet theatre. Which was very specific to Thailand.
Which had to go. And I thought that'd be really fun. No, that would be fun. And there was also in the movie there's a bit early on where they got an alarmatric.
Which was very last minute for an elephant safari. Yeah. Right. But you know, you're restricted in there.
What you're doing, Chile has all this research on what goes on in Chile. It doesn't have not that much. Yeah. There are volcanoes but I think we deemed they were too offensive.
Well, a bit all or nothing as well in terms of if a volcano goes off, that's going to overtake. Yes. So essentially there's a tourist trick that turns out to be disastrous. It was one of things that changed.
But in terms of the actual script itself, I mean in terms of talking less characters and I've said, I mean, did a lot of change in terms of how the characters journey is the actual story itself. Yes. Absolutely. It was coming up with character was really fun.
The central character was trying to really try to work out how much in idiot he is. And how much idiot he knows he is. And not level of self awareness. And so one thing about him was that since being extremely young, he hasn't had to do anything for himself.
So he's grown so reliant on doing things that he can no longer do anything. So he's sort of relearning to be a human being. And he really is now a well at the start where he's so outraged by something on the TV. He gets some people to throw his TV into the pool for him.
And actually that kind of ultimate rock and roll but I need someone else to do it for me. But that's also what I was trying to do with that was trying to be that he's also dated. He was bigger than 90s now. He doesn't even know how he would unplug a TV because now it's screwed onto a bracket.
My double thinking is that he now has to ask someone to un-tune the bracket. So two guys coming in, he was slightly hassled. They don't know why. They don't know who he is.
And there's a line that you can't put in the cable box in as well. What's he's trying to achieve through the throwing. And it's just that kind of impedance of not being able to do anything for yourself. And also that's partly why if you watch the movie it kind of feels like one of those 90s capers.
I want it to feel like his life. That's what he was big. And I think that's why it's got that sort of huge character feeling. And also with other characters in it, there's a sort of grain green thing that quite a bit of an outpost he would come out and set in a kind of time.
So there's this Australian character called Clive Moggleton who's a misogynist who has now learned that he's a misogynist and trying not to be but can't help himself. And that's sort of quite the fun character thing to do. So it's got a kind of 90s caper feel to it. I really like it.
And amidst all the cutting down everything, there are still lots of silly conversations in it. But I think character wise it was an American agent who becomes the villain really at this point. And one thing that is really pared down is that I really like the fact that he was so germphobic that he couldn't touch anything. Which I really do.
And there are lots of things that can try to get across a hotel lobby that he'd scandal with. One of those lights that he sees. And he's not being able to. He's sort of tiptoeing across and just gloves for everything.
You can sort of see a remnants in it because he's carrying a antibacterial gel on a lanyard. And then we get he's attracted to the money in it. Oh right. Okay.
But he's sort of trying to turn this kidnapping into an international sort of it. He's trying to improve his career. He's trying to get a step into Washington by uncovering a terrorist plot which doesn't exist. It's a straightforward kidnapping by a very amateur kidnapped.
I'm very interested as well just to go back to this fact that you got this job basically off the back of a two minute sketch on a radio phone. I think it really helped comedy show. Yeah. Because the conversation we had was that was he'd listened to it probably now before in his car.
Right. So that's the place to be. So there were a kind of, it was presumably there were other writers in the frame. But that actually, that notion that an unusual or interesting, slightly different to what one would expect two minutes sketch on a radio show is a great calling card.
I suppose evidence has made someone laugh. I think you're laughing because the fact was he was talking to me about that sketch. And it was really lovely to finish anything about it. Well guess what?
Guess what? I wrote it. I had that with my wife. She knew I'd written for smack the pony and she told me that sketch that she really liked.
I said I did that one. Oh, yeah. With the K-Conchants, I was able to do that. I would claim that anyway.
I've also used other sketches for film. I've got another script I got. I sent a comedy into some of his films. I think just about to cast actually.
So it's sort of getting on, but they want to know if I could write emotional stuff as well. So I wanted to heart in this film about a divorce couple. And I sent them a sketch I've written for a mission web look which was one of our homes that he has to mention. And it was in the theatre sketch where he's at home, Sherlock Holmes in a home.
Oh yes. And what's sad in that. It's really sad. And so I sent that.
And that said, yeah, that's fine. So it's fast the test. Yeah. We all know that the sketch is a difficult thing when suddenly you get one that really works.
It's glorious. So they are great coin cards I think. If you can really make someone laugh quite often as well. They think you're doing more than you are.
I mean, that home is one. I think people think I was really trying to be incredibly sensitive. And it's pointing me to the point. I sort of was.
I wanted to be totally light with a serious subject. But I think people think you're writing something that's very serious. It reminds me of hearing Paul Whitehead talk about the thing that I say, drunk character. Because I think the last one of those is not funny at all.
Yes, he hears that. And it's very, very morkish. And I've heard Paul Whitehead talk about that afterwards. He basically goes, we really laid all that time.
The morkishness of it was incredibly funny. Whereas everyone watching it's just going, ah, there you see, there's the real two points. Can I ever read about how I'd really stuck it to the cosmetics industry with another Mitchell web sketch about the Boratois Garnier. And all I really wanted to do was sometimes say, it's my laboratory.
No, it really was just about the jokes. No, yeah, yeah. Don't put that out. Obviously.
Can we ask about your other film that we've got? The other film that we've got. Well, no, it's not the first screenplay, but the first film that got made was very quick. Process, it was a team horror film, haunted house kind of classic, you know, classic.
This is what I remember from that when I used to make documentaries about low budget filmmaking. I went to see this guy, Bill Simmons, who's called the Halley's Weekends. He comes to the house and he says, you want to make a movie, the first screenplay, you're right? You got a bunch of teens.
You stick them in a haunted house. Well, it turns out, I followed that. That was, that was, that was really fun. That was, I got asked to do it.
I think the money had come up for this. What's it called? It was called Up All Night. And it was renamed the Friday download movie.
It was a spinoff of a CBC show, which isn't a drama or anything, it's a magazine show, which is hosted by actors from other CBC shows. But they're presumably because they're like that, they're cheap to make, can't they? Yeah, one location. Yeah, yeah.
It was, and I actually don't really want to show anything because it's always scarier if you don't see it. It was, it was just a really fun thing to do. And again, you know, no time to write this group. Again, I think it was weeks, really to write it.
And then there was no three years after it was, I think, when I present, I think they were starting shooting really soon afterwards. And it's directed by John Henderson, John Henderson, so much from all of the spitting image I've given. Oh, right. Okay.
And then how do you want me? Oh, I had you also, yeah, yeah. So many writers, favorite show. Yeah.
Yeah. So yeah, he's, he's, he's become a you know, real power since then. And you know, he had his time in Hollywood as well. He directed Loch Ness, Ted Danson film.
And so he's, but he was great. He knew exactly how to achieve all these things. So we, and I really like those stories. So it was quite fun to that.
And I think the, I think I had to turn down some of the scares. Yeah. In it, I think I've written scary things that we could do. The funny thing is that the movie segues into a let's put a show on right here, movie in the second half because that was part of what we had to do because it's spin off of this show that had bands on stuff.
Okay. So, you know, I challenge you in three weeks to have a haunted house movie that turns into a let's do a show right here. Then segway into a paranormal slash. That's what the show right here.
Which I think works. Yeah. I mean, like it. And it's, and I have to say that if people don't like it, I'm, you can, you can blame me on that one.
Okay. Because they largely did film what I wrote. Okay. No time to do anything.
That's also, that is a quite interesting, in terms of the process and that more or less you're saying it was your not, this is your first draft that much, probably close to probably three, probably draft three by the end because Hendo had said, I've looked at the house. This is what we can do. This is what we can do. So they were, and we write accordingly.
Yeah. Well, also they've got a library. Yeah. So why don't we use that?
I just know that kind of thing. I'm wondering if you ever got to the point when you were about sort of 16th draft of a sunshine where you're saying, actually, hang on, am I, am I rewriting? Is this, is this better than the ninth draft? Is it, do you have a different point?
Do you know what? I think, I think the first draft is always the best. Honestly, I do, you know, when I say first draft, I mean, the first draft you send out, which, as you know, that's not really, no, no, no, I hope it isn't. Yeah, the first draft you send out, I think is often the best.
I think it's the, it's all, I mean, too long, obviously. And that's always a big thing. But I think, but I think it's got the jokes that really work. I think it's got the scenes that you really want to put in.
Yeah. It's got, it's not when you look back at some of your early stuff. And you do think, I can't believe that I thought I'd get away with that. And yeah, there's something about it, which is like, you know, early stuff you do that people really respond to, really like, you're just thinking, you know, this is a freshness to it.
There is. I think the first draft of Salty as well, as a franchise now, was full of really, you know, much quirky, really, really full of these really quirky characters and really odd scenes going on that, you know, that just have to go the way of, you know, you want to pair it down. You know, I think, it's a good length. And that's always the thing.
And this came up, if I just written a blog post about it, and this came up when we were talking to Graham Linen, is when you're cutting stuff down, the easiest stuff to cut is always jokes, which is obviously difficult if you like jokes. But a lot of people don't seem to need jokes and films tend not to, they just don't want that density of jokes that you tend to get, unless it's a proper airplane kind of goofy movie, they sort of, they'd rather have a decent joke a minute rather than three jokes in minutes. That's, that's why, because I think in Guncha, it's quite joke heavy. I mean, they're not all going to work on it, but it is quite, but actually one thing we realized, the budget wasn't going to do much action.
There are two or three action sequences in it. But we couldn't. Oh, the, when he's going down the litmus, two cases, yeah, and I remember that. Yeah, that's, he really backed the right horse.
Yeah, otherwise, we hit, I remember his conversation time again, we'd have to pull back on action and go for it on comedy. Presumably there's a difference, I mean, when one is in a cinema, then, you know, you're aware that you can take your foot off the pedal a little bit, because, okay, we just have that big set piece. We can, we can reset now, we can have a change of mood. But presumably, this was made for 40 views.
No, it's made for 40 views. It's been straight to, it's going straight to, you know, iTunes and Amazon and Google here in Sky here. Right. In America, it's released as a movie.
Yeah, yeah. Okay. And it's, no, and when I finally saw it, I mean, just the other week in its full count with the score and the difference between watching the cinemas is immense actually. You know, it's makes such a difference because it's kind of, you know, it's all 4K, so everything really pops the album and the sound is sort of immense.
Yeah. And it's, you know, so it is a difference. And it's, you know, it's, it's, you know, it's, it's a real cinema director, you know, it's kind of huge, bombastic thing. So it does work best in cinema.
But I think, but the funny thing is about the, go back to action scenes and joke and find that, that really, that's not in the edit in a film, more than TV. I think we kind of, scenes have been moved around in the edit of the film because you're trying to work, you've got to find a good way to tell that story without there being too much exposition. And it's quite a bit too many story. Yeah.
It does move a bit. Yes. Although it has a, what I like about it is the fact that it's not torturous. It does, it pivots, but it doesn't ultimately, you sort of know someone's been taken hostage and that's not, you know, and they're going to try and get them out.
And that's, that's the beauty of a nice comedy is that you don't want to be worrying about the story because at that point you still know what's going on. You know, you know, the film, this rock's wife is kidnapped and he's trying to get them out and he doesn't know how to do it. The Saturday before I watched, you know, maybe I just watched Spectre for the first time. I've been not seen it.
And I spent most of my time thinking, am I supposed to know who that is? Is that the, oh, is that the guy who? No, no, that's not him. I remember watching one of the mission impossible for this.
Yeah. There's the dust cloud. There's a chase to a dust cloud in it. And then I remember it rucking into the chase and this man stands in the back of the truck and pulls off his mask and reveals someone else.
I don't know either of it. Yes. That's not in my shotgun. No, these two new characters.
So were you on set? No, I was going to go. But my wife is in it and we have young daughters. So I won in one out of policy.
Yes. Well, I just thought they said we could all go out there. Right. And I thought, because it's winter in Chile when we shot it, which eventually had become a joke.
Yes. Funny. Where is everyone? That's winter.
It's only because we had to shoot in winter. That's great. But we had, but I thought taking a five year old to Chile and winter might not be much fun. But my wife was there giving me sort of an update.
She's the woman who gets with the bag on the head. Oh, yes. Oh, she's really funny. And I remember thinking, I said to my wife, I said, she's really funny.
And I also remember thinking her on screen husband is also very funny, but there is a parallel universe in which that part is also played by Jim Howick. Yes. Obviously. Yes.
It's funny. It's funny. I remember seeing audition tapes for all the great Davis originally for the Australian. Oh, okay.
It was loads of days. He would have been great as well. But yes, we built up the parts of those two. Luckily there are these two hostages, a British couple of tourists and they have bags on the head, which meant we could do a lot of adiogics.
Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Because we did some test screens in LA and everyone really liked them. Yeah. And we haven't shot enough. So I did.
Oh, we're not shooting more. We're not shooting more. But there are, can you guess the scenes that were shot a month later when they take them out? No, it's not with that couple.
They shot a whole sequence of stuff much later, which is the stuff we've daily Mitchell is the manager. Oh, yes. Yes. Yes.
Yes. Yeah. Here's a little film. Yes, he does.
Yeah. Yeah. He's sort of filmed a little short film. I'm not waiting to see it.
It's a fun fun one, maybe. One thing I just wanted to ask is, well, I mean, this is the thing that has changed hugely in the 30 many years or whatever that I've been doing this as the idea that the symbiosis between writing in Britain and writing in America, which barely existed 25, 30 years ago. But now, I know more writers now. There are more writers going over to LA and American writers coming to Britain.
And do you work much in LA? I have an American representative in America, which I said, but I haven't done it. But the last script I think is currently being sold in America, right? And it'll, you know, which is a very British script.
I mean, have you ever, I have a moving. No, I'm sort of, I'm not sure I fancy it. I would work out there, absolutely. But I sort of, for some reason, I really like England.
I think, you know, I sort of, you know, it's a really is a part of who I am. I think I tell very kind of English stories. And I think it's, I mean, don't go wrong. I love so much American comedy.
And, but I think, yeah, I think, when I think about going out, I don't think about going out to LA just to do those meetings. That's what I worry about. If I had interesting going, this is the thing, you know, there's something concrete going to, then I absolutely would. And I would certainly go and do more film out there.
But I quite like having to go at the British film industry to pour lame duck. Yeah. Because a gun show that looks like an American film is fully British. All the money's come from Britain.
Is that right? Aside from the selling it to territories, but all the investors. Because it's always been a great frustration to me that I don't simply don't understand why we have such a lame duck film industry given that so much Hollywood talent is British. And we are also conducting this interview in one of the largest financial centers in the world and in human history.
And, and yes, you know, we make these Harry Potter movies, but they're not British movies. They're Americans get all the money for those. It's just bonds. You know, it's like all these sort of so called British movies and they shot at L Street or Pinewood.
How is it got to the point where a British movie that gets made, that's why when you put up on your Facebook status, it's like, hey, I've got a movie made. I just thought, well, that's not possible. I wouldn't know any but that. No, of course, you were quite right.
Yeah. You were sharing it literally in my friend. And I was thrilled to get it. I just think we need to make more.
Because this film is not expensive. The first of the haunted house was made cost under a million. Right. And it doesn't, you know, that's a cheap film.
But this one I think costs under 10. Right. In all things considered. And that's in international locations with a bona fide superstar.
Yeah. To effect, ok, great, end-co, of the concept of solace. Yes. But we can make films.
Good script costs the same as a bad script, I think. We can make films in this country. We just need to make more of them. They make so few.
They come under this great scrutiny. It was time to come out. And suddenly, I just think people should be more supportive of them. And then we wouldn't make more.
And then somebody got 30 coming out of here. And then people are going, okay. Yeah. Let's hope this one works.
We have all the expertise, all the great Hollywood great actors and screenwriters and just think about it. Well, the whole industry, the industry of everything, the physical making, same time with students. There's people who know that. So people will, brilliant actors will work for, you know, a few that isn't in the millions for a script that's great, for a part that's great.
Especially if they film near their house. Well, I think it really happens. But yeah. Okay.
So what have you learned about comedy writing through writing movies? What is it that you're not the writer that you were presumably? Well, I mean, I went through drafts when you get told that we need to make this funny for Americans. Right.
And that's a thing you really have to do. And also, you know, and therefore seeing a script as a document that is not to be filmed necessarily but is to produce money or whatever it is. And I think it's actually getting near the shooting. Right.
So I'm actually going, we need to make sure that there aren't these references that, okay, not so much references. But certainly realise it turns out that he's done travel. Yeah. Yeah.
And also he was written as a British movie star. I mean, Timothy Spawles, yes, at some point, you don't have to see that. Those casting brackets. No, that's a unusual venn diagram.
But you do have to sort of, I think that sometimes you, when you try and get really broad and there are really broad moments, there's always my favourite things, you know, sometimes you want to do a gag that will just travel. Yeah. You know, I think that'll explain why, you know, at some point he gets bitten on the dick by his neck. You know, I think it's some spoilers.
Yeah, spoilers. But at some point you want to go, actually this is fun. But then there are things that I hadn't seen before, like the suitcase down there. I think it's a fun, stupid thing that I hadn't seen before, which is why I'm more than the death of the Shadow Puppet fight because I've never seen that before.
Yeah. I think it sounds like though, the film process is absolutely brutal. And the rewriting, rewriting, rewriting, it seems that you need to, more than any other genre perhaps, get over yourself. You have to be able to get more than even TV and radio and like, I think I killed Darling's over and over again.
It's like a massacre in your orphanage thing. You know, you know, you know, things that you love just had to just disappear. But as I said, no sets of notes had worked annoying. Wow.
It was all, it's nearly all practical. Really? I think it was a thing. And if someone says, we just don't be able to afford it.
Yeah. So I'd much rather write to find a cheaper fix that is mine than fudge it or cut it. Or this British turn of phrase is baffling. What's Marmite?
I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know.
I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know.
I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know.
I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. We don't know what this is.
You don't know what this is. You don't know what this is. Yeah. It's for everyone.
They get angry about it. And everyone involved with it was absolutely lovely. I mean, my wife was quite worried about flying out to Chile on her own. And she said it was the loveliest set.
And there's a lovely, you know, he was just sitting with everyone. There's no special trailer. He was just, you know, mucking and having fun and they all did a little bit of sight sitting together. And you know, it was, it was very pleasant.
But I think that's partly because it was totally independent. It was independently raised. Yeah. Let's all make a movie.
Let's all do it right here. Go and see them. Go and see them. Go and see them.
Go and see them. So you should go and see. Or in your own home, as I did via Amazon video, I watched a gun shot. And it was good fun.
And it was a good old 90 minute romp that does exactly what it says in the tin. Although why it's called gun shot, it's slightly baffling given the book is called Salty Sultie. But there we go. Thanks to David Davis for speaking to us in the last two podcasts.
We're very grateful to him. We recorded those episodes in a room above a pub in London. And we could have to hire that room, because we have generous Patreon subscribers who are helping out with the cost of the podcast for which we are very grateful. And if you are a Patreon subscriber or you become one, you can come for free to our live show and meet up on the 21st of March after you Bill Murray in Angel in London.
The stunningly talented John Finnemore will be our special guest. You can find details of that on our Facebook page or Google sit on geeks Patreon and you'll find links there on our Patreon page too. And you can buy a ticket if for some reason you don't want to be a Patreon subscriber. But thanks very much for listening.
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