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And last week, one of our previous guests on the show, Lionsgate Executive Mark Lauber, shared a LinkedIn post from Katarina Vigenesca, Head of Development and Co-Productions for Ukraine's Film UA Group, one of the largest Eastern European TV and film producers. And that led me to try and contact her. So this week's show is just one interview, one discussion with the TV executive who's caught up right in the middle of this catastrophe. Katarina is currently in Kyve where she's sheltering with her family as a Russian troops advance on the city.
We recorded this interview on Sunday the 6th of March and I wanted to get this show out as soon as possible due to the fast-moving nature of what's happening in the city. Katarina, thank you so much for joining me and I really appreciate we might have to stop this chat if we get any air raid sirens or any interruptions. But first of all, I know you're usually based in London, but tell us how you come to be in Kyve right now. At some point, I think it was obvious that the war is going to happen.
There's this thing that if there's a gun on the stage, it's got a fire. So I guess, I don't know, I just knew that this is going to happen and I would try to be here. And so I just flew over and I can't really claim any specific bravery or anything because in a way I was planning to go back to Kyve because since my head office is in Ukraine, I go back and forth in regular and peaceful times quite regularly. So I just flew back again, just being aware of that.
So this is something that might happen and I try to be in Ukraine and outside of Ukraine. So there's that. OK, explain to us if you can how you are right now and your family and how life has changed for you in the past couple of weeks. Yeah, where do I begin?
So I feel like now I'm OK, more or less, well, because the war starts in the first morning. And I think a day for this new kind of reality to sink in. So basically my sister and brother and Lord basically forced me to go and join them hiding in the underground station in the shelter there. So we spent three nights and almost four days there.
And then it was Monday and they unsealed the shelter because it was sealed for a few days because of the heavy shelling and pumping Kyve. And then we got out and I think at that stage, there are stages and there are degrees of how bad it gets even during this new reality. So it is so bad being there in the underground station because basically you sleep on the floor, it's cold stone floor, you're deep underground. So it's cold, you are sealed off, you are with these people wearing kind of those stages of a lot of the flights really far.
Just people start spanking and behaving irrationally and we were behaving irrationally as well. So we kind of made a decision that we'd rather be less safe, but just physically, it's honestly, it's unbearable being there. And I know the people and families and kids and all people who made the decision to stay there. It's taking a huge toll on them.
We chose to go back to my sister's place when there's an air rate and when we hear the siren, we go downstairs to the basement. And then at some stage, you kind of, I don't know, but like humor really saves the situation. So we're trying to laugh at it because it is basically a survival technique. So by now we kind of evaluate how threatening this particular air rate sounds and if we can hear explosions coming from which side of the city.
So if it's not too bad, then we'll just stay in the corridor because it's between, by now we also know all these instructions how to behave when you're being shelled, for instance. So if the danger degree is not too bad, let's say it's like orange rather than red, then we would stay within the building between the walls. If it's getting worse, then we would go downstairs to the basement and all that and you start looking around your flat. And there were a lot of these lovers helps us through because they started looking around.
So everything you see in your flat view, assess it as potential danger. Like for instance, a pipe running across the wall. Is it water pipe? Is it gas pipe?
Are you going to get blasted by gas or is it going to be water? Things like that. And I try to go out every day because we're also trying to help people for a less fortunate than us, older people, lonely people, etc. But also just kind of not to be scared.
It's important to be not all the time cornered. So kind of need to feel that you have the, that you have at least some control over life. And there's less food in the shops. But by now you kind of get really happy if you come across like today, I bought eggs.
And they're so really really happy because basically we have no idea when it's the next time when we're going to have fresh milk or eggs or anything. You just reassess a lot of things. I can only imagine. I mean, can you describe what normal life is outside?
You say you're trying to get out most days. What is the feeling on the streets and how are people coping on a daily basis? You say that obviously there's, you know, certain uncertainty about what's available in the shops and what have you. But what is the mood with the people right now?
And we're speaking on Sunday. Can you gauge the mood of the people? There's very few people in the streets. So because a lot of people have left the city of many people are staying in as much as possible.
And that's the recommendation from the Ministry of Defense as well. Where you do see concentration of people is pharmacists and shops. Overall the mood right now, it is hopeful. It is heroic.
I would even go as far as they got. And basically everyone right now is saying that everyone in Ukraine is either a warrior or a volunteer. And I 100% agree with that. Everyone, everyone I know from my friends, colleagues, myself, we're trying to.
And it's kind of like, now it's random really because you leave your number and some volunteer groups online. And then someone just calls you. And like today we were trying to get some medicine for old people who live pretty far. And then we need some specific heart medicine, which means that you need to give a lot of different pharmacists.
The ones that are open. And then also arrange how to get medicine across. Friends and people who don't know each other, co-ordinates and co-ordinates over. I think that's being very unso-powered of what my people are doing right now.
It's incredible. And I'm just aware and I don't know maybe because I knew so I was thinking logically. So I'm kind of trying to see beyond today and be strategic. So what I'm really scared of right now is that it's stages.
It's like stages of grief. So now everyone is a bit illated and feeling proud. But the reality is that this is going to be very long term. It's American.
And I hope that people don't lose hope and that we can people don't get tired too quickly. That's that's that we stay as hopeful and proud and in a fighting mode. Well, from my perspective, and I'm sure I'm speaking for all our listeners, everybody's looking at Ukraine and incredibly impressed with the bravery of people and what you're all going through. So it's still quite unbelievable for us all.
But it's incredibly brave what you're doing. In terms of evacuations and getting out of gear, is that an option for you right now? I mean, you've obviously made a decision to stay. And can you give us any idea of the numbers, you know, the numbers of people that are staying?
Is most of the city stage do you feel in place in Kyiv? I can't speak for that. It's really difficult to assess. I know that a lot of people are leaving and we've been taking quite a lot of parents or friends of mine who live outside of Ukraine by now.
So we've been taking a lot of people to the train station. There's a lot of people trying to leave. And thank God, at least in Kyiv, because the situation is different in Maripol or Nikolay, for instance, there are other places in Ukraine. In Kyiv, the train's running as normal.
So there's regular trains and there's a lot of evacuation trains that are taking people out of the new war zone, basically. But they are quite often like re-regular. They are at 200% capacity. Every single train.
So a lot of people are standing. So a lot of people are leaving. I made a decision to stay because for every reason that I can't go into my family, can't leave. So I'm staying with them.
And as a weird saying, a lot of people have to. But also men are not allowed to leave. So everyone who is within the enlisting age, they have to stay and they are staying and joining to the social defenses or on. Want to get ahead in digital first content?
The drop is the go-to newsletter for industry professionals delivering insider news, trends, and insights straight to your inbox. Navigate the fast-changing landscape of digital first production, distribution and monetization. Sign up now for free at dropmedia.co.uk and stay informed with the drop. We know there's been various media blackouts in Ukraine.
We saw terrible scenes of the TV tower being shelled a few days ago. And we also know that the reality of what's happening is not being reported in Russia. And lots of big news organizations have ceased operations there at the moment. Can you still access TV now?
And are you just getting your information from the internet? Is news still being broadcast to the people in Ukraine? I haven't clicked on TV in my normal life. I almost want to say, well, never, basically.
So we haven't checked. But online, everything is available. And we actually don't have media blackouts. I am speaking for a very specific trait of society.
So probably older people who only watch TV, they are in a much different situation. But TV has been broadcast in this normal because there's a way now, you don't necessarily... It's not just rest-gelt, either other options to make this signal available. In terms of where the kind of younger or middle-aged people are, we are really well connected to what's happening.
It actually makes me laugh because a lot of friends from abroad keep on sending articles from CNN or the DCO events. For us, it's like, yeah, we know, it's been a long time ago. We use Telegram, which is huge. It's kind of like what's up or a signal, but it does have this additional capability.
It's called Telegram Channel, which is basically just sign up to that. And it's almost like, you know, like in older times on news websites, there would be these feeds where news would be appearing all the time. So it's actually very, very up to date. There's some of the information there is either fake, which is not confirmed, or kind of you wish this was the case, but it's not a kind of thing.
But by cross-checking various Instagram channels, you can learn to figure out what's true or not. I would say we actually do have quite a good cross-book reality, as much as possible during the war time, because reality is that, like for instance, my mom, she's in my room, and I haven't been able to reach here by any means possible since Wednesday. I can but hope, but in my room, there is no electricity, no water, no heating, no internet, no mobile reception. It's been bombed completely.
So even no news, like, not enough news, I can't inform my room, because there's no, physically it is impossible. It's not about us not having access to the information. It's about a friend that CNN has early to their war journalists from, but it's just it's a war zone. Yeah, it's too dangerous.
And infrastructure is broken down, essentially. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I mean, and does that, I mean, it must, if I can even for a second, put myself in your situation, knowing what's happening in some of these other cities, like you mentioned, Mario, Paul, and one or two others, does that make you fear more for your own safely as, presumably, the Russian army is coming closer to Keve and potentially surrounding it?
I mean, how does that make you feel? I mean, knowing what's going on elsewhere in the country, I mean, is it, and it must be, it must be terrible, failing to see everything else going on. I think so. Everyone is different and everyone's reaction to this kind of danger is different.
And there is no right way to react. My personal reaction is I'm so angry. It really helps me to not be scared. I feel like I want to swear, but I'm gonna, whatever it is needed, I will do it.
I'm not, I'm not scared. The clothes that they are, the angry, I guess. But there is also reality of our body just reacting to danger. So every time when there's an explosion close enough, your rational brain has no chance to react before your irrational, or whatever your snake brain kicks in.
And then, yeah, let me just feel like adrenaline shuts up and you are scared. But this is like body reacting. And then when at some point you come out and think through it, you become operational again. But yeah, it's kind of body reacts to danger.
That's for sure. That's your control, which is kind of neat to remind yourself that this is a momentary reaction. That's your breathing, your breath out, just one step at a time. This will pass and then you can think again, and you can do what's right.
Obviously we've seen your president who's been incredibly impressive all the way through this. What do you think about the requests for NATO to instigate in no-fly zone? Is that something that you're hoping for? Or do you think that that's not realistic after the responses that we've heard from various NATO leaders over the last few days that that's never gonna happen?
I mean, is that something that you clearly still, you know, you still want to see? This is the one thing right now that could end this war right now. And if there's whoever is listening, if you can load it for this, this will stop the war. We know that it's not...
And the thing is, it makes me so angry because we have also lived through that as well. It's kind of like thinking of how the allies were trying to get American-joined world war too, and they were saying, no, no, for so many political reasons, and then they did join. This is gonna happen now again. I truly believe that.
It's just that's... Do we really have to wait until many more thousands die? This is the one thing that can end the war now. Because Russia, like, even now...
Like, this statistics is available. You can go to the DC or the Guardian website, and see how many forces Russia has. And they have, I think, like around four or five times the size of the Air Force that Ukraine does, and even so, they have not been able to dominate the skies. So if NATO flies over, creates no flies over, Russia, it's just...
It's mathematics. They cannot even win over Ukrainian Air Force. If we have air support from NATO, they will have to retrieve. I'm not a political strategist, not military strategist, whatever, but I keep track of what's happening.
And there's plenty of YouTube channels, and a lot of military task force is talking about this. So this is a tangible way to finish the war. I've got a real sense of helplessness watching this unfold. It's terrible.
Everybody's clearly glued to BBC and one of the news channels and just praying that this is something that there's some way that this situation can be solved. And obviously, that is the one that many Ukrainian people are asking for. It seems to me that Western leaders just are too scared of triggering a wider conflict. Yeah, but the Western leaders have access to military intelligence, and the military intelligence that ups to these coins has actually been very reliable.
The American military intelligence, they told specifically when the offensive is going to start. They do have this information. They have... Even we have access as...
You can Google the position of the Russian tasks from the air, so they have enough military intelligence to know how much air force Putin has left. That information is sufficient to know that Putin cannot engage in a war with more than just Ukraine. This is just bureaucracy over human lives. And speaking of which, like, why is it okay?
It's kind of like you already stepped with your left foot. Then why don't you also move your right foot there? Because countries, whole numbers of NATO, are already sending weapons to us. So technically speaking, there's no engagement in this sense.
It's already broken. It is that feeling of helplessness that I think we all have looking in and seeing how incredibly brave Ukrainian people are. Just for a second, I mean, this is going to sound slightly absurdly because obviously telecast is a TV industry podcast. And we're here talking about life and death and your situation in key right now.
But considering for a second the international TV business community, how can we help the Ukrainian TV industry? Because presumably it's going to need a lot of rebuilding and other than the news channels we spoke about earlier, then obviously there's all of that commerce is no doubt ground to a halt. How can we help the Ukrainian TV industry right now and rebuild itself in the coming months? Hopefully this conflict will be over soon.
But how can we help going forward? Yeah, there's an easy answer to that. Well, first of all, all of us, all of you need to help Ukraine. Because if there's no Ukraine left, there's no media industry left in there either.
And this is happening. I also have to thank a lot of partners of ours who have been incredibly supportive over this horrible 10, counting into 11 days of war. But that's money that's where getting in terms of the nations is now going directly the word war relief and humanitarian aid. But once we win and we will, what would really help is just basically just work with us.
You know, no one is talking about immediately coming into the bombs Ukraine and trying to film there. But having said that as a side note, I know it's kind of one of those things that we kind of try to laugh at to make the birds and lighter at the moment. But imagine if Disney has a set somewhere on the border with Russia. And if by any chance a Russian shell fell in it, I mean, Disney is bigger than quite a lot of GDP of many countries out there.
This is possibly not a war force in it would once await. But it's like joking aside, just kind of a please acquire the Ukrainian contents. Please, corporate years with us because we simply don't have to budget any longer to produce 100% original content. Please hire our people in terms of, you know, there's a lot of things that can still be done, can be done remotely on certain of post-production, VFX, animation, yes, and some of the facilities will be bombed, but hopefully it will be rebuilt.
But for now, a lot of them are sending sound design, like all of the things that can be done remotely, that will help. Now, film your group, your company. Are you capturing footage of what's actually happening? Are you actively filming from a documentary perspective anywhere at the moment?
Or is it just a case of the company's on ice until it can be a much safer situation? We can't really, like we've never done the commentary. So we don't really, let's say, like we haven't, this is not our core strength. We are these critics of the people.
What we're doing is that we've organized the shelter at the studios. The last thing I checked was close to 100 people that were sheltering there. And we are feeding them because we have our own catering company and the facilities, etc. We have given all of our working talking, drones, whatever else is needed in terms of equipment to the army.
A lot of people have enlisted either real army or the territorial forces. And then what we're doing on the content front, we are cooperating with all the buyers that we know. So first of all, we have given a lot of our contents for free to broadcast this across the world. And this is also something that I'm addressing your listeners right now.
This is something that you can help us with. So the goal of that is putting this actively trying to destroy North Korea's Ukraine, but Ukraine and culture. So we are asking broadcasters around the globe to broadcast some of this kind of short videos, short videos, the beauty of Ukraine and culture, traditions, etc. So this is one way to help them.
We're also selling our contents and just very simple paperwork. It's basically the by-content from us. You choose which charity wants to transfer the license to two and the license to go to the charity that goes to the community. You can come back alive, etc.
And we're also because something is dangerous. We can't send our people unless we want to go on their own to go and sell something. We are doing a lot of contents. If you sign up to a community group on Facebook or Instagram, etc.
You would see we edit videos based on this user generated footage that we're getting. So we kind of create stories. We have a record, a lot of all the access, all the celebrities that we work with in Ukraine. We have also made videos of them addressing people in Ukraine, but also in Russia.
We've shown a lot of Russian access because a lot of Russian access for working in Ukraine, even during all these months and years, well, three of them said yes, we can actually post something everyone else. I guess it was just taking the green and white everywhere on the side. We'll put some links. And it was actually through Mark Lorba's post on LinkedIn that I got in touch with you.
So and he's put some links on there and I'll repost these and put those links in into the episode description so everyone can go and have a look at those and see what content there is and hopefully license. And as you say, you know, it'd be a little step forward to keeping the Ukrainian culture alive and basically reinforcing that because realize that Russia doesn't really recognize Ukraine as a country and is seeking to seem to rub out a lot of that, essentially, a lot of that culture. Yeah, that would be really helpful. Thank you.
Okay, Catherine, I've already taken up too much of your time. Thank you so much. You know, we're all thinking about you and your colleagues and everybody else in Kiev and in Ukraine who are suffering at the moment. And it's quite unbelievable that it's happening actually, but we just want you to stay safe and we hope we can see you in person very soon and hope for better days very soon.
But we're just so full of admiration for what you and your countrymen are doing at the moment. So we're all thinking about you and we just want you to stay safe. Thank you. And I also want to thank you specifically on telecos and the whole media people who have been so supportive and just all the people in general and we know that every world of Ukraine, you know, and we know that they already want this work, which is hope that we don't lose more life than necessary.
Absolutely. Thank you. Maybe we'll get the opportunity to speak again in a little while, Katharina, and keep us up to date with what's happening and how you're coping. Thank you.