Everyone Hates Bonds. Why Two Bond Managers Say You're Hating the Wrong Ones

John Kerschner and Michael Contopoulos of Janus Henderson join Matt Zeigler to explain why persistent inflation and higher interest rates call for a different approach to bond investing. They explore short-duration bonds, AAA CLOs, mortgage-backed securities and how investors can rethink the fixed income allocation in a 60/40 portfolio.The conversation covers why traditional bond benchmarks may deliver too much interest rate risk for their yield, how ETFs expand access to securitized credit, and why the AI buildout could add to inflation rather than solve it.High-Conviction Views: The time for short-duration bondshttps://www.janushenderson.com/en-us/advisor/article/high-conviction-views-the-time-for-short-duration-bonds/Janus Henderson Investorshttps://www.janushenderson.com/en-us/advisor/Topics covered:Why deglobalization, fiscal spending and labor constraints could keep inflation and interest rates elevatedHow the Bloomberg US Aggregate Bond Index concentrates interest rate risk and leaves out large parts of the bond marketHow AAA CLOs work, why their coupons float, and why they are different from cashWhy tight corporate credit spreads may offer insufficient compensation for the risks investors takeThe three jobs of fixed income: safety, income and insuranceHow duration determines whether rising rates can wipe out a bond portfolio's incomeWhy bond ETF discounts can reflect price discovery when underlying bonds are not tradingHow Treasury borrowing and AI hyperscaler debt issuance affect bond supply and relative valueWhy AI capital spending, electricity demand, labor shortages and wealth effects can create inflationHow to rebuild the bond allocation around securitized credit, agency mortgages and the risks in your equity portfolioTimestamps:00:00 Rethinking bonds after years of disappointing returns04:28 Why the forces behind the bond bull market have changed10:09 The hidden interest rate risk in the Aggregate Bond Index14:53 AAA CLO ETFs: Floating income, structure and drawdown risk20:44 Treasury fiscal risk and tight corporate credit spreads26:16 Moving beyond set-and-forget bond funds30:45 How duration can overwhelm your bond yield36:27 Bond ETF liquidity and price discovery during stress41:11 Treasury borrowing, AI debt and securitized bond supply46:00 How hyperscaler borrowing can create credit market dislocations50:29 Four reasons AI could increase inflation55:56 Rebuilding the 40% bond allocation in a 60/40 portfolio01:02:00 Municipal bonds, recession protection and balancing equity riskLearn more about the Excess Returns podcast network:https://excessreturns.coNo information discussed in this podcast should be construed as investment advice. Securities discussed may be held by the hosts and guests, their firms or their clients.