EXPERTS ON EXPERT: Sanjay Gupta

Welcome to armchair expert experts on expert. We have a very fun exciting guest today. Dr. Sanjay Gupta You probably recognize Sanjay from his work on CNN.

He is their in-house medical expert. He covers an array of topics for them He's one of them. You know that but I'm not surprised at all. He also does cool specials And in fact he's here to talk about a docu-series that he's doing on who is crushing it around the globe with different health aspects Yeah, there are people that are doing it well, and we would be wise to model ourselves after that chasing life chasing life with dr.

Sanjay Unseen and it's gonna be a fantastic program now in all honesty We have small window with Sanjay and then traffic intervened. Yeah, and cut that down even shorter So just know this was a thrilling 50 minute interview for us that we wanted to go on for two three hours And I'm gonna I'm gonna be the first say he's coming back. Yeah, our apologies for it being too short and you are definitely gonna be wanting more Yeah, because he's juicy. Yeah, he's great.

He's really fantastic. So please enjoy Sanjay Gupta also just a reminder tomorrow tickets for our live show in Seattle go on sale at 10 a.m. Pacific time with our website. They'll be link there to get tickets armchair expert pod calm Please enjoy the good doctor Sanjay welcome to armchair expert experts on expert you fall into the experts category, which is very distinguished.

I'm honored by that Yeah, yeah, you should be like that. So what was so fun for me is that your folks in 1960 move from India to La Vonea We're in La Vonea to do it right by the Wonderland Mall. Oh, okay. There's an Arby's there.

So Harrison wrote Yes, that's right in a pond a row. So across the street by Kmart really knows the B&B little drugstore. Yeah. Yeah, so if you get went down That street that was that's where our house was now.

It's actually they moved to just outside of Dearborn first They worked at Ford right there both of them both both of them. That's that's really unique and cool Yeah, my mom was mechanical my dad electrical and and my mom's the first woman ever hired as an engineer really for a company Wow, isn't that great? Yeah, it's pretty cool. Yeah, she was a partition child in India So 1947 is a gigantic partition India is broken up in the Indian Pakistan.

Uh-huh these four or five years old fleas from what is now Pakistan to India Uh-huh and 12 years lives a refugee refugee camp gets into a cargo boat right a cargo ship Yeah, so India goes down to Karachi and it's funny when you live this life with her and it's just so part of your thing And you never really talk about that. Here's something like you actually know the story. It's all bonkers, right? It's bonkers.

Yeah, because it's a part of our life, but yeah, so she then decides she wants to be in a general day What do you know what car she worked on in particular was she assigned to a platform or anything? Yeah, she did a bunch of they hit various cars. So the tourist and the tourist chassis was a big one shared with with a stable The same old stable. Uh-huh your cars.

Yes. They had a very exciting addition called the show the show tourist which had a yamahana Super high open. Yeah, it's marine. Oh, yeah, and every now and then she get to bring these cars home Just a test thing.

Yeah, and I was you know turning about 15 16 at the time So it was fantastic Similarly we have stepped out for a few years who was the riding handling engineer in the Corvette group So he not only brought a home Corvette before they came out, but they also owned all these competitive vehicles So he wouldn't have Lotus a spree Ferrari. I mean kuntosh. Yeah, it wasn't worth it in the end, but it was very cool But now so Lavon get now my so my grandparents lived on off a marathon between five and six and I spent all my summers there And my grandma taught at Stevenson. Hi, but you didn't go there.

You want to know by huh? I went to know that we moved at some point in their eighth grade and eighth grade I've moved a few times because it was Dearborn. We were in LaVonia and even with LaVonia We moved a couple times and funny cuz I still go back. No family there any more parents left But but I still go back and and check out the old neighborhood.

Yeah wild to go back. It really is right. Yeah, first of all There is such a Specific atmospheric feeling in Michigan, especially if you're there like late spring early summer It's just a quality of the air for me that is so nostalgic and I just find it intoxicating So I to go back just to get that kind of high of that late spring early summer feeling I totally mean it's funny because people talk about the Midwest and they you know the values and it's just a good place and all that Mm-hmm, and you can you can talk about that, but you're right. There's something that's less less easily You know defined.

Yes now. It's the feel of the place and there's some visceral there for me Yeah, no, no way high not a ton of diversity I can't imagine that you had a ton of I think I was the only Indian kid I think maybe they only get any color in my skin at all sure I was going to school there and I was going to school there and it started to change at that point Yeah, yeah, I mean it's funny when you're the only person who's a person of color you then are ascribed every ethnicity Absolutely, I can feel it for all of them. Sure, but we have a huge our population in Detroit So I sure thought you're killed in some times and exactly it was all that and it was a good school I had a good experience, but I think no matter what when you're the only guy that's different There's I don't know what we'll call it I guess it's more xenophobia because like racism would would imply that they somehow even knew what my race was sure and then felt superior to that Yeah, this was more like he's another yes other yes, you know, and so I'm have a fear of others Mm-hmm, and so there was a little of that and then you know everything such a name. It's that food you eat It's your religion parents names, you know, it's it's weird.

Well Monica as well is first-generation Her mother did grow up in Savannah Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, she was six so she really grew up there. Oh, I'm not a hundred percent pure We did the 23 me and she's as pure as a guest. Yeah, but she similarly grew up in Atlanta, Georgia Mm-hmm, and so she very much wanted to be white Oh, yeah, oh, yeah everything I could be as white as possible fit in Yeah, I mean I assume I mean it happened so early that I wouldn't really be able to pinpoint like oh I'm doing this now But I'm sure it was just wanting to fit in with everybody else and be accepted How did your parents have those conversations go with them or do they did you have it? If I could say from outside of the very progressive not as traditional as you would imagine Oh, they're not traditional at all, but I mean of course when I would come home and say like I wish I had blonde hair I would just roll her eyes at most of those comments, but she wouldn't really she didn't really have any big conversations about it I wish we had she probably could have said like why that was wrong, but she's just like just okay, just watch friends Yeah, yeah, but we had another we had a guest on here Rush months kind of similar dynamic and in the other way So it's kind of like you can either really assimilate or you can attempt to assimilate and it doesn't work So then you find your tribe and in Rushman's case She ended up hanging out with other Southeast Asian folks that she assembled kind of a crew Yeah, yeah, some Asian kids and you know, so what was your method?

Well, so it's interesting. I don't know how old you were when you want to be white But when I was a kid, I was 31 I wanted to change my name. Oh sure. I wanted to be Steve.

Sure. That's Americans again. Yeah, Steve Austin. Yeah, I'm a million-dollar man.

Yeah, you don't remember I know it Steve Austin, so my name is Arthur. It seemed like a very and that was gonna fix everything Oh sure sure my mom and it was probably six seven years old and interestingly now especially when I look back on her immediate response was All right, let's do it. Uh-huh like maybe that was the thing she could give me sure she maybe recognize it Maybe it's hard for you know Indian kid in a very very homogenous small town and blue collar to that Me too, I mean where we live on Harrison Street that street, you know this area, but that was that was my grandmother Wasn't that Wonderbird Baker Union? Yeah, you know, yeah, it was very many workers long workers Wonderful place to live.

That's what it was and then she said to me. Yeah, you sure you want to do this You know, I mean because you know, maybe you shouldn't try and be like everybody else. It was sort of that same thing that your friend Rushman I guess went through do I suddenly do I not and I decided that I did not want to yeah So I'll tell you I think I was like a really pivotal point sure because the idea of embracing your your differences I didn't really not go hang out with a lot of South Asians after that or anything in particular But I think for the first time I saw myself as an individual Yeah, I was kind of weird thing to say about your five or six years old that was I still remember that really well No, it's a comedian that's the end goal and can take people 30 years to find their voice basically Yeah, yeah, yeah, they're differences that run from them and here's nothing I'll just throw a hypothetical you you're obviously an incredible student right you ended up going U of M Do you believe that had you been super embraced and busy ride bikes and built in force with all the blue color white kids? What studies have had the same priority is your life on a different?

Are you at a vantage point now that you could go? Oh, well that thing that was challenging probably defined me Maybe the person I want to be that's a really good question I think that what I would say is that I think the difference was I was able to dig deep into topics that interested me because I wasn't Outbuilt in force right like that. Yeah, I think I could have done well in school without having to dig deep into those topics And just saved all that for college maybe yeah, right and so I was able to have more interests, you know Some of them were just interests. I got interested in history.

I was thinking about medicine I wasn't sure but I get into the history of medicine. Just like having a pretty gory history At one point you think okay, it's okay for me to cut somebody open and try and heal them Sure, it's just that pivotal inflection point medicine was so or even didn't they like during the alignment They would take good. They were like pain grave guys in there and open up some bodies They really weren't allowed to that's how you that's how they started to learn anatomy early stuff based on my quest Green stuff, right? I guess this is probably my body body body.

Yeah, yeah, it's all there's all animals I mean it was considered You know just absolutely sacrilegious to think about opening the body some of the first operations where they would take these flints These kind of sharp hard rocks and basically hit the skull to basically let out these bad humors and rubors and doleurs What's amazing about that is they were successful because there is if you're a forensic osteologist there, they healed that's right Isn't that not how you know all the anthropology? It's amazing. It was down at the Aztecs, right? They could open up the skull in the field When somebody has trauma which is how most people died early on if you had trauma to the head you got bleeding and the whole thing About the skull unlike any other place in the body is it's hard So if you have bleeding the blood doesn't know where to go if you open up the skull you just believe some of the pressure You can actually save somebody's life.

So when that pressure builds up does it start constricting the brain itself and preventing oxygen from getting like it? What's actually killing at that? There's three things that are basically in the intracranial cavity in the skull cavity the brain Blood vessels and trigger spinal fluid and they have a fixed ratio of these things and even time right when you start to add something else In this case blood which is pushing on the brain the brain itself starts to get inflamed and there's no place for it to go So the blood vessels they're providing blood to the brain they get constricted Okay, and then so you start losing oxygenated blood to the brain and also the blood that's trying to get out of the brain can't leave Right, so the brain starts as well Yeah, that's the real problem the brain swells eventually it pushes down into the spinal canal and that's what's called herniation That's a term that people use in the medical community But when the brain is herniated it means it's pushed down into the spinal canal interest in that's what direction it moves That's right. Oh wow pushes on the brain stand and you'll lose your breath on your own to get your heart rate and it just occurred to me You know everything about brains.

Obviously I mean theoretically yeah, you're a surgeon when I decided to keep my name That's when I started to study the brain Let's quickly cuz I think most people don't know this and I this is one more fascinating thing to learn and answer was was that Neanderthal that their brain was about 1650 cc's in size and at the modern homosapiens like 1500 And then so it's quite conceivable that they were smarter than us. It's supposed to be a pejorative to call the Neanderthal It's a weirdly a compliment, right? No, no, no, no, I just want you to think so. That's right.

I had four things I I'm going to pace myself. Yeah, I mean, you know, big size of brain the density of the neurons in certain parts of the brain There's parts of the brain that are called eloquent parts of the brain. That is what they're called And that's because they are the most functional parts of the brain So you're not all your brain is super functional I mean, it's more like it's more like you have a bunch of cities and then you have a bunch of roads to allow those cities to connect And much of the brain is the roads, but there are some cities and you want those cities to be the most densely packed eloquent parts Yeah, it's more about those areas than the overall size of the brain. Okay.

Now. Oh, also really fun to write is convolutions, right? It's also about surface area, right? You have a gigantic brain, but if it was smooth, you wouldn't have nearly the same surface area So you have all this cortex if you unravel it, it's much much better than the brain itself It's because you have the ridges and valleys and this was interesting everyone always looked at about Einstein And they said, you know, his brain was actually examined and it was But he seemed to have a lot more of these ridges and valleys convolutions within a particular area the right parietal though It turns out really responsible for spatial relations like how we actually can place ourselves in space and time Oh, that kind of makes sense with relativity, right?

Maybe that's where you don't came for him. He just got some of these concepts much much more easily. Yeah I remember that concept being explained when looking at elephant brains because they're highly convoluted, right? That's right.

It's incredible memory. Yeah, and then there's you know, if you go to the reptiles, you do get much smoother brains They're much more animals of reflex, you know, right and the reflexes are what drives most of their function as opposed to actually conscious aware And they have conscious awareness, you know, that that's not as big a part of their brain. Yeah. Um, what what the things promote and or diminish brain health?

Is there any because I was taught in biology. That's gray matter, right? Those aren't somatic cells. They don't go through my toes They can't really heal itself.

Is that all true or is there anything that can be promoted with your brain? We I think you know, the long held belief was that you know neurons as well as cardiac cells once those died You weren't gonna get them back and and I think over the last 20-30 years people have realized that that's probably not the case. Oh, really? That you can have regrowth and you can also have a different areas of the brain take on different purposes, which is called plasticity The idea that your brain can be plastic and malleable, you know, I can we can point very specifically to a part of the brain And I can tell you that this is your right hand function It actually got a less right left hand left side of the brain controls right side of the body and it's not a stroke right there And they lose upper extremity function at some point they could regain that strength because other areas are very close to that motor area could take over Uh-huh the motor area does grow back other areas are to chip in and and that's sort of relatively new thinking of the last few decades Yeah, what kind of comforting it is it's totally changed the way we think about stroke rehabilitation brain injury overall Even things like the concussions that led to some sort of the CTE problem.

Yeah, CTE exactly. So CT is a big deal. It is, right? Yeah, yeah, ten years ago most people in scientific community and neurological community didn't think it really existed Really?

So we have had a new a new neurological disorder in our lifetime. It's been defined and now accepted. That doesn't happen very often, right? CTE due to concussions typically from significant close to the head is a new thing.

No, is it that the damaged brain itself in CTE is coming from each specific impact Or does it reach a critical mass or it now starts just destroying brain on its own? It appears to be due to this repeated blow to the head. Some people seem to be more vulnerable than others even with fewer hits of the head At a younger age they've already developed evidence of CT in the brain. I personally have seen this tragically in the autopsy of a 17-year-old Really?

player. He died. He had taken a blow to the head and then took a second blow to the head and that's called second impact syndrome And that's probably what I do is death but they you know family has from autopsy and within his brain He had these deposits of these plaques, you know, like am I waiting to think you've seen an Alzheimer's patient? Uh-huh saw it in the 17-year-old's brain.

Is that because they're just pool blood in there that kind of gets viscous or something? They're not sure they think that the proteins the amyloid in the towel that they're called are responding probably to some sort of injury They're not blood per se, they're proteins, you know, but they're coming in probably in response to the brain being injured There's been a belief that if we have these infections early on in life that may not cause us to be sick We wouldn't even know that we had them but the brain responds to that infection and lays down all this Isamoloid and towel these proteins and then later on in life that leads to symptoms of Alzheimer's You know every loss and functional problems. So is it an infectious disease early in life that leads to Alzheimer's later on? We don't know that I mean they're starting to look at all these different possibilities I've also heard people talking recently to about like gum health.

Yes, and that can migrate in across the blood barrier Is that true? That is your your mouth and your gums are a potential large source of inflammation in the body And so when you have inflammation, you know, you're basically you're telling your body's immune system at least the house at least all the inflammatory cells And when those inflammatory cells now are in the bloodstream, they can go anywhere So they cross the blood brain barrier. They can make plaques and the heart worse So you know people say ginger vitis associated with heart disease. Oh, wow explain that to me Well, the common denominator is inflammation.

So yeah, that's that's a huge thing. It's such a simple problem to sort of, you know, address Yes, inflammation in the mouth. This is discomforting us on autoimmune disease and inflammation I am sorry. I got arthritis.

I would love to hear your opinion because I have a total just armchair layman's theory on all these autoimmune things Which is I think we're all allergic to a bunch of food We just don't know what it is and then it manifests itself in all kinds of other guys. Oh, yeah So look at me like another hour. Just tell you really quickly and this may sound familiar to you for her steroids Mephotrexate, emberal, humera, otesla. She's known all these drugs She did the TNF inhibitors, you know all these things and there were times when the doctors said look This is a medication that is probably gonna shorten your life.

It's cardiac toxic It's toxic to the heart but we think it's gonna work But here's the reason I'm bringing that up to your point in the end is quite possible That she has an allergy to something known as the psalm of Peru, which isn't it's an actually occurring substance in Peru and trees But it's used as a food additive to all sorts of different things So you bake what it's going to label for it Oh, wow And they believe that the it is an allergy that subsequently has caused her immune system to flare up and look like sorry, I got it So she gets the she gets the joint symptoms and we'll get rashes in these sort of odd places Yeah, the whole thing and it's been really well and by the way, I tell you, you know, I'm a doc I'm a reporter so I kind of know the medical system Yeah, I don't know it's like for you But that was the most challenging to navigate and figure out how to get her care And I am so skeptical in cynical and everything and it took me going through every single western medical option before my wife finally forced me to go do ponchacarma Cleanse with an arvatic. I never say that correctly, but I really yeah Yes, and lo and behold after 10 days with them on mung beans and rice I had no inflammation they gave me a diet when I follow that diet to the letter I'm pretty pain-free. It's very hard to follow but by far of anything I've tried that's been the most successful and that's I mean, I don't think the arvics know scientifically why it's working. It doesn't really matter to me, but it worked for me It's maybe a restricted diet.

It's just insulating you from the things that may be reacting to in some way I guess, you know, and again, they didn't do blood samples where I'm saying I don't think they were looking for markers of anything yet Here we are this woman said here's what you're gonna eat. I did it and it worked So what am I gonna do look at some of that stuff has just been around for a thousand years, right? We always want the double-blinded randomized trial The ovens and look I'm all for that. Yeah, is it who's gonna do the trial on the beans and rice diet for psoriac arthritis Are we gonna take 10,000 people and say you eat this 10,000 people you eat this and then follow them for years?

And also to your point, they've been recording now whether or not they're getting into the theoretical end of the recording They have been recording the health of people for a thousand years. So it's kind of like we're coming up with the wireless transmitter He didn't know scientifically on a physics level or chemical level what he was doing, but by his trial and error, he did figure it out So I kind of file it under that category. It's like well, they might not know but they know I think it's too easy to you know, frankly, I'm not saying this, you know, I grew up in Indian household So there was a lot of sort of Ayurvedic teachings even though my parents and doctors But you know in some ways people are very dismissive of these things and there's a sentiment sometimes of it It's not made in America. It's not stamped made in America It doesn't have value or it has less value and first of all, some of these traditions have held up for hundreds of thousand years That's got me something.

Yes, and then Carol I don't know if you went to Carol and we're doing the cleanse and stuff But that's where a lot of this stuff happens and you have some of the highest literacy and health and and overall, you know So wellness rates in the entire country. So there's there's evidence, you know, living that sort of Ayurvedic life. Yeah, I'm an official And I think I got a chance to go to Carol and see that and it's pretty Where's Carol? Carol is my parents are from?

Oh, really? Oh, I never been to India's country and then it's like 20 countries Yes, it's places and it's like yeah, it doesn't feel like India. Yeah, Carol is on the southwest coast. It's beautiful Yeah, well ironically her parents when they visit Santa Barbara, they said to her.

Oh my god. We feel like we're home I'm like what? They do think like water in the Asian. Yeah, and probably like, you know, people who are healthy Yeah, we think of health is like the necessary evil thing.

You have to like think about our health and over there It's just how they live. Yeah, it's just which may not be that different Right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, but like you know, you like eat and you think I'm really gonna think about what I mean, right? But like is that food functional for me?

Is it gonna provide something I need later in the day and you know? They think about it with regard to work out like I'm working out later so I should have some protein now But that's just the way of life in Kerala. Yeah, we had function right a diet is created for society typically on because of palette Right, it tastes good and it's got good mouth feel but for for Kerala and the idea of the diet was created because we're looking at food We're saying this is function. This one has this function and here's what you should eat here's the time of day You should eat it and then we'll do the pallet stuff after I'm delicious right drove it was not palate as much as function Yeah, just so I think people should eat how human should eat.

Yeah, no one would fill their car up with cough syrup You know, you understand that this thing has it requires fuel a certain type of fuel to perform the function It was designed, you know, but you don't really put your body that way no And also it's not against us. They make it so easy for us to just satisfy that palette and texture Yeah, it's all day They tuned for more on their expert if you dare I got them I got young kids. Yeah, we have all daughters. Yeah All done.

Yeah, sweet. I mean, it's it's the best thing in the world and I don't know how it's with with risk But you know, I can't get to be the hero, you know, especially I'm gone. I come home I'm the hero and I feel bad because you know, they've been at it with mom Yes, just give me this look like really can't come in to be fun dad Arguing for three days, right? Changes, you know, you know, there's ups and downs with the mom's and dads with it.

Yeah, right now. It's awesome Yeah, what I think 13 12 and 10. Oh, that's supposed to get that's supposed to be like really on the precipice for you I know I'm holding my breath Right now, it's good. Oh good.

Yeah, yeah, I've won I've one friend who's older friend of mine who has daughters that I witness go all the way High school stayed best friends and kind to each other. I'm like it can happen. I just know that all you to know is that it's possible I have a brother. I do not know sister So I never knew little girls, you know, it just wasn't something that I knew what has shocked me sometimes I don't know if this you're just a little foreign sex foreign sex.

Yeah, so they're so young But the I'm amazed sometimes the way my my girls might talk to each other like I mean, it's just you're the meanest mom I hate you. Whoa, whoa, whoa, and I will take them aside sometimes and I will say hey, but first of all reference You know, just where your parents just be clear on that. There's no equivalency in this relationship Number two is that that one over there will be your best friend one day So please don't say anything that you're gonna kick yourself ten years from now and say I wish I hadn't said that yeah You know, just don't don't say that you're gonna regret. I guess that's amazing.

Well, there's this seems to be a predictable pattern There's moms and dollars and then that's and sounds for me. That was a very dicey. Yeah, there's a lot of like alpha jockeying Really? Are you the man?

I'm a little bigger than you now. I'm still going with this. Yeah, I'm still growing I think it's easy to make that person that the same gender person feel like you are going to be that yes So then whatever they do that makes you feel crazy or annoys you it triggers you to be like now I'm gonna be that or I might be that I don't like it so then it's really high That's interesting. Yeah, I agree yourself a bit exactly and like maybe a scary way and you're almost defining yourself against mom Or I don't want that life, you know nice that kind of attacking it or being critical of it Yeah, maybe this gets back to the whole wanting to be different right?

I mean, I don't know like I love my parents, but the idea that I become my parents that doesn't that shouldn't happen I actually my own man my person. Yeah, I think of a very interesting life And I feel like you have so just in a nutshell you graduate from know by high you go to U of M You then get your degree in a real surgery from U of M Yeah, and then I find so then you're pretty immersed I imagine in the world by naming and then the world of medicine Yeah, and then in 2003 You go to Iraq with the invasion of Iraq and become a doctor there. How did that come about? I'd been practicing medicine.

I was writing a lot and on health care and I became a journalist, you know Policy that was my work at the White House writing about those 40. Oh, yeah, I worked at the administration like 90s I worked at my house. Oh, wow and it's all care. It was a big issue for the Clintons at that time And when I started working the journalist I was thinking it was gonna be health care policy That was my interest and then 911 happens and the invasion into Iraq and Afghanistan And I was always interested in how people get cared for in wars and settings But all of a sudden I was there as an embedded reporter You know and and it turns out the only neurosurgeon also within the area that I was reporting so people get injured They got shot and they say hey, man, you know, we know you're here as a reporter But would you take off your journalist cap and put on your surgeon's cap and help us out and yeah?

Of course, you know, that's what you do and so that's how it happened No, I've been in an operating room in Afghanistan So when soldiers were just brought back from being shot Yeah, and it is not like a hospital at your side I would walls but the kind of calmness that existed with those guys I was just really like this for me. Of course, it was just chaos right and do their screaming There's blood everywhere and the x-rays are coming real quick and all we have metal here But just to see the chill mode of the surgeons. I was like they're fucking gangster Look how calm my thought was really cool. I really wasn't cool to see people.

It was cool to see how proficient they could take care of people That's saying yes, no, it's amazing. I mean, I like you have tremendous respect for those guys I watch the Gulf War on TV and I've ever seen the lights in the green screen I was like I don't know what I'm looking at is that missile going up is that a bomb falling out of it? But you knew people were getting hurt Yeah, and you knew that there were people rushing in to help them and the people that were helping you know, rush My total strangers and they were risking their lives and I thought that's the most human story I operate every week and I'm not risking my life to take care of somebody right those guys are doing that And so I covered the conflict in 2003 and saw that and it was real. Mm-hmm that I thought I was been my entire career covering those stories Yeah, you know, I have tremendous respect for what the nurses and doctors do in those situations There's something liberating about it getting and this is not to say that the care there in that situation isn't on par But it is a different environment altogether to me looking way more like survival down to the basics Yes, the hardcore getting in there.

There's not all these administrators. There wasn't all the computer work You know what I'm saying? Yeah, there's something more primitive about the human just got to do your job Yeah, and I wonder if that was at all me or very very very I mean, you know, there's certainly you know This feeling that you're gonna take care of somebody that if you don't take care of them They're gonna die if you do take care of them. They could be just fine.

So there's that real sort of tension It's more game day plays, right? It's like it's not planned out. You didn't have six consultations It's like it's now you do the right thing right now or not. That's right.

They need you right now You don't have to do a lot paperwork and talk to you make sure you get approvals You know try this vacation for a while. It's not a case for a while It's just do your things It was very gratifying and the other thing was I think it showed me reminded people that how much you could do with how little you know I mean, we have so many resources. It's wonderful. So you see all these hospitals.

It's great Yeah, but it does make you realize that we probably use a lot more than we really need yeah things done a lot less And frankly most parts of the world that's what they do and again And it's back to America made or not. Yeah, yeah, and is that why I imagine there's many facets to it But is that why our health care costs per person are so outrageous is it the endless layers on top of the procedure itself? I think if you had to go down to one thing people say well, we have to be specialist We do these operations whatever it's cost it's price we charge a lot more money for the same exact things your hospitalization the doctors fees From a suitable cost I mean the ridiculous you've seen the headlines people jacking up costs and these drugs suddenly thousands of percent Yeah, and these are drugs that are brand-new drugs that have gone through the all this innovation Some of these existing drugs that are run for years and some pharma company suddenly says I know a lot of people are depending on that drug They're lives better. Yeah, I'm still gonna go ahead and raise the cost by a thousand percent Yeah, and that shouldn't be a lot It's the price of these things more than anything is the price artificially high or is the price it is All the uninsured folks that are coming through the system is no I mean because this is the private side of the system You know the uninsured folks are coming through the system oftentimes are paid for if they're getting care by the public side of the system Medicaid or Medicare whatever it might be right you couldn't identify who the buyers and sellers are of products Like if you were running the system you'd say well, you're charging me too much for that.

Here's how much I can get forward over here Give me a better price. Yes problem is in health care We don't know who the buyer is exactly we don't know the seller is I was doing operation on Monday And I asked because I'm not talking about this little bit I was buying fusion I said how much does this fine fusion hardware cost? Very simple question. Yeah, and I got some answer that was a version of well That's complicated.

It depends I'm gonna have that thing right there. How much does that cost? I said five dollars five hundred dollars whatever well depends on which hospital it is which surgeon it is which Department is doing the operation. It is so opaque and then who's the buyer there's the patient the buyer?

Am I the buyer is the hospital the buyer to go online and order my device? Yeah, myself. Yeah, I should roll up with it And I'm sealed back. Okay, I bought the ultimately I think the consumers and patients in this case will probably be people who drive that change in ways that you just Describe if you were suddenly the one who's you know I actually sing a bill here you may go out negotiate that price and you're gonna be able to do that better than a Hospital system could better than a doctor could because we're not you know Make your game and negotiate drug prices.

They just pay whatever the pharmaceutical company tells me to pay Yeah, that aspect or even like the way you know the numerous times they've been taken to the cleaners in Florida with the pain mills and all Stuff the way again in theory the policies great because my understanding of why they do that is that they've made a decision We're never gonna be standing in the way of something right which so in theory has kind of an altruistic policy underpinning That's just very easily exploited right there can be good things certainly that come out of these sorts of decisions The problem is that the ramifications overall for a health care system is that there a lot of people don't get what they need as a result Yeah, if the decision was made to say look we don't want to get the way of people getting their medications great I appreciate that was not malignant motives that's the sort of this problem is that you get tens of millions of people in this country You don't have reliable access to health care and look if you and my wife didn't have reliable access to health care with this Auto-immune thing and somebody's drug with $30,000 a year and it was ridiculous And there's a way we could possibly afford that yeah, and that is the reality for kinds of people So you know the health care system we're 100 years from now we're gonna go so we get this rate You guys were so good at innovating and creating new drugs and new treatments and procedures and you can scan things from the moon and whatever And then the people who really needed it couldn't have access to it. Yeah, somebody thought that made sense That was a good idea the same geniuses. Yeah, that could create that stuff right They're so good innovating but the idea of actually making it valuable to people having relevance in their lives Well, I want to ask now a very very provocative question I'm now first-hand witnessed I've done this twice with my dad and then my stepdad As part of this issue that we have a hard time accepting that people are gonna die To me it seems like we spend a really disproportionate amount of money resources and time on people in their last year of their life But we just throw the kitchen sink at someone with in my dad's case I'm also carcinable. Oh, he was gonna die in three months really no matter what anyone did and at best Maybe we were gonna get six months on but I was just watching the fucking dump truck of money and options And I thought he's now consuming more medical money than I will probably my whole life until I'm in the same situation Could we clean up a big chunk of this bike just getting more realistic about hey people die can you even Absolutely.

Yeah, no, I spent most of our health care dollars in the last couple years of life That's very true, you know, that's I think what is interesting is that it's such an emotional decision, right? I mean, this is this example I'm getting I don't mean to minimize anyway, but I have a lot of animals I have dog and my dog 14 years old I got lung cancer. Uh-huh. And and we But the but yeah, I'm surgery and people with a friend of mine I'm sure sure I just do you know, just even need everything for dog and we knew I mean that that probably wasn't gonna really extend his life But we also felt like we could not do it.

I'm just I'm just being totally honest with you This isn't a health care a policy comment. This is more just a personal comment sure and and maybe you know I haven't gone through this with my parents, but you know part of me I do wonder like you just don't you want to try everything I hope it's a very powerful sentiment, you know this and you always feel like it might be something right around the corner Like I could help them but the adults have to say guys were standing 45% of our resources on people that live one more year Well, this is untenable. I mean, let me tell you what I think was interesting You may know this but you know when the Affordable Care Act got passed in 2009 one of the things originally in there was a Completely paid for visit with people over the age of 65 and of like counselors sit down and say okay Let's go through things if you have this diagnosis if you find yourself in the situation It was like a living will plus a lot more yeah And and it was an opportunity for these patients while they're still healthy and in their right minds to really lay out with their families and their doctors How they want to be treated if they really got sick Yeah, and there were studies I found and they did other countries that dramatically lower health care costs People were much less likely to see aggressive care and when they were told what the likelihood their outcome is gonna be yeah You know what those things ended up getting called they got called death panels. Oh, yeah That was the death panel right when you heard you're gonna pull the plug on grandma That's what Obamacare is gonna pull the plug on grandma because of these visits that were gonna be covered Yes, so I'm processing that situation in the middle of it.

Yeah, okay the game plan That's I just the master's that's I gotta give it up. I'm for death panels I'm gonna say that right or even the estate text changing the terms of that sex knows that you see or people going in yeah Don't take away that billionaires money and you're all that's a dink. Yeah, it's really good. Stay tuned for more I am I'm heartbroken that you and I don't have time.

I could talk to you for three hours So you have a new doc series. Yeah, it's called that chasing life travel over the world looking at what I think are interesting health practices You know, it's based on this idea that we spend you know trillions dollars on health care in this country and our life Expectancies going down three years in a row we're twenty third in the world We're expecting to continue to drop and get their places around the world that live happier healthier longer lives than we do And I kind of want to know what they're doing and what we can learn from them Yeah, I travel the world finding those things and immersing myself and that's always a very frustrating thing for me Is that we can visually see people that are doing something better than we're doing and then no willingness to adopt that Yeah, even I look like in Scandinavia, right? Your health records are not public yet. They're not closed right so they can do these epidemiological studies in five seconds Like we're over here debating whether or not the certain vaccine gives results in autism and they figure out the twenty So let's just look.

Oh, no, it doesn't you guys have an argument about that for years It's pretty amazing, you know how they approach health care overall the types of the types of data like that They can give the people but just you know, you go these places that people live a lot better than we do Yeah, and it's true even Caroline India It's amazing when you look at what is possible and what we couldn't reasonably adopt into our lives here Yeah, it's not that hard some of it and we love the home run we love the touchdown we love the big play Sure, but sometimes you go to the little place they can have that huge huge impact on your life Is there one thing you would say that everyone should be doing daily that would help with in these long-term effects I'll give you two because there's like a million of them, right? Okay, what does that even think about your diet? This isn't necessarily about being vegan but eliminating processed foods and At each other. I mean people say this all the time, but when you look at countries where they have far less heart disease far less Diabetes far less dementia.

Yeah, it's the diet is to be part of it The only thing I'll tell you in this time will squish your around the edges But there's a lot of the countries like ours right they the same foods They've had the same economic challenges They've had the same labor force immigration issues and yet they continue to increase in life expectancy and we continue to go down And I think it's places that are really invested in the social fabric of a place where people found their tribes Like you said earlier you have your people and I think in the States, you know It's become a sort of rugged individualism that kind of mantra and loneliness and social isolation is a really toxic thing And we haven't really know how to define that You know, but you see places where people live similar life to us But they have the social cohesion and it really seems to buffer them from the problem or social priming We were designed to live a very specific way. Yeah, and we've made it easy to not live that way, right? Yeah, when does this air this air starts April 13th April 13th, and it's called chasing life chasing life and not seeing them Yeah, you're deep in bed over there, and we're happy about that. It's really fun to hear your opinion and you're very trustworthy and Thank you.

You gotta come back. I think it did two hours settling in. Yeah, yeah, but that's the Livonia And it's really China is proud of so Sunday. Thank you so much for coming in and please watch the docu series I'm sure be fantastic.

Thank you and now my favorite part of the show the fact check with my soulmate Monica Mom, I'm not good, but I can't be done. That's not good. Oh, I don't never do it. Never But I was a nice try Why did you do that?

I don't know I'm nervous. You're making me so nervous. What are you afraid of flip? You're very mercurial.

You're very mercurial. I'm waiting for you to slash out at me. Don't say that. Look at that.

You make you mercurial. Okay. Okay. You point people and test people and trick people and also trap people.

That's mainly what you do. Okay. And then you act like you're right. But I know you're here to point out what I'm not right, which is quite frequently.

Yeah. Oh, before we get into this yummy fact check, I need to apologize to our Mormon listeners. Yeah. We made a mistake.

I was cavalier with my details and I made a mistake. Yeah. It was pointed out to me by a lot of people that Mormon's do not believe Jesus was born in the USA. Now Mormon did tell me.

They believe everything the Bible says in that when Jesus died. When he ascended into heaven, they believe he then appeared in Native Americans and prophesied in North America. Right. So I just want to say I was wrong.

Yeah. But I didn't pull it completely out of nowhere. I got confused. It was the visit after the resurrection.

You knew there was some sort of thinking about it. But again, I definitely was wrong. Also, I hope that I do not wish to offend anyone of any religion. I think I'm, I try to be balanced in my critique of all religions.

I'm very open about the fact I don't believe any of those texts, any of the religious texts. But I certainly didn't mean to single out Mormons and I apologize. Okay. And I apologize for not fact checking it.

Okay. Sorry. What do we do this weekend? We watched.

Oh, we're watching the OA. Watching the OA. Yeah. And then of course this weekend Game of Thrones starts.

Yeah. So life really takes a turn this Sunday. Yeah. It's very interesting because I don't remember anything.

No. Yeah. And in that show. No, in fact, two nights ago, I started rewatching season seven and boy, it was like I was watching it for the first time.

I think I'm like, I'm putting a board. I know what's gonna happen. I don't. I don't know what's gonna happen.

Yeah. It's so dense. You just forget it. Are you watching with subtitles?

No. Yeah. I'll tell you what. I was reminded that which makes me so happy for the Hound.

Oh, the Hound. So I got obsessed again with Hound. I was reminded that the Hound is my favorite character. Right.

And then I was myself in bed at Google what he looks like in real life. Oh. Handsome guy. He is.

Yeah. Yeah. He's good looking. And he's a big gentleman.

Right. That's why you like him. I do like him. And he's like he was a painter in Scotland or something.

Oh. Yeah. You know, with his hands and stuff. You know what I'm saying?

Like he did sexual stuff? No, no no. He can build things and stuff. Yeah.

But I don't. Yeah, you're right. I do. It won't be a masculine.

People aren't building. Is that your fear? Well, yeah. Because I don't want it to be like that's the hot thing.

It's like a guy who can like build a shed. Well, let's just say this. So I see what you're saying. But let's just say you find cyclists hot.

You had no problems. I find cyclists hot without fearing that everyone who doesn't cycle. Now feels less. So it should be the same.

The building. Yeah. That's true. Do you like cyclists?

Not particularly now. Generally in your way here in LA, right? Yes. In fact, I'm pretty annoyed by them often.

Mostly just because you're never going to hit them. Yeah. Sometimes they're riding right in the middle of the street. Yeah.

They sure are some of them. That's illegal, right? I don't know the rules on it. But when I ride my bicycle on street, I'm hugging the curb.

I'm not trying to get anyone's way. You know what is illegal is you can't ride on the sidewalk. I don't understand that law. I'm real confusing.

You know, I've got a real issue about this. I can't stop talking about these fucking scooters. You can't. You are so old man about this.

They're so free. They're just they're littering up the whole city. You can't look at a corner in LA that doesn't have like four or five fucking discarded scooters. I just don't know.

Because it's transportation. They're just littering every corner. I think there's a bunch of bozos out there. They're renting these things.

They don't know. They're supposed to be in the sidewalk or the road. I see them everywhere. Sometimes in the middle of the road, sometimes they're on the sidewalk.

People jump out of the way. I mean, it is pandemonium these scooters. Yeah, I do think maybe they should require some sort of license or something. Something because it's total chaos with these guys jumping curbs.

They're half the people I see. I can tell they are not comfortable on them. They're like out of control. They're going to be fine.

Yeah, they go too fast. It's too fast for someone who's not adept at a scooter. Yeah. You know, traffic up and down the sidewalks.

But I like what it represents. Yeah. I think that probably was the original point. I'm sure that was the sales pitch where the city says sure.

You can litter these fuckers all over. Just leave in the middle. I'm waiting for someone else to get off at a stop like in the middle of the road. Just leave it in the street.

No. I guarantee you'll see it. No. It's so funny that you care about that.

Why do you care about that? There's also other things littered all over the street that you don't care about homeless people. Like what? Oh boy.

Okay. Well, I do care about them. It's not really not championing that cause. Well, well, no, I work with path.

I've donated money to path. I've done move-ins for paths. Okay. You can't say half of that.

I've done it to make my wife happy. Yeah. I didn't take away the fact that I gave money and stuff to them. Right.

I'm not taking away my contribution. I'm not. Do you think you're an advocate for homelessness? I don't know how I feel about homelessness.

It's totally honest. Exactly. Well, Ethan at work last week brought up. I guess apparently some thought experiment by Jonathan Haidt who we love.

That if people want to live on the street, is it up to us to impose our will on them that they shouldn't be living on the street? Like if there are any kind of proposals where they'll be housing bill and then they'll be mandatory to leave the street and get into those houses, his thought experiment is like morally is there anything wrong with living outside? I guess I'm probably fucking up this whole point. This is what the conversation ended up being at work, which Ethan was saying, look, if someone loves living under the overpass, who are you to say that they shouldn't be doing it?

Like what ground are you standing on? What's your moral high ground here? You have to probably say they don't know what's best for themselves with you. It's a big liberty thing.

I don't know. I knew the exact numbers, but many of the homeless population here is probably not with a mind that they could make that decision. Well, I can say this because in an answer class I had to do a ethology on Skid Row, so I hung out there for a couple weeks and interviewed all these people. I can just tell you my thing.

Oh, I mean, 90% of the people I talk to were either addicts. That was the vast majority. They're just addicts. If you're an addict, I know addicts in housing is not the issue.

Yeah. And then another significant percentage, of course, of people that had been in hospitals or institutions for mental illness that were now just roaming around the street. Yeah, that's a problem. I think I don't think those two are choosing, like, if I could pick anywhere in my life to live and I'm doing, weighing pros and cons, I'm going to pick under the overpass.

I don't think that's it. I can't imagine making that decision, but I can't presume to know if someone might not prefer that. If you're walking down the street here, you see them. You see them.

Oh, I see it. They're all over right by my house. Yeah, they are. Most of the ones because I often will give them food, like in order for a party.

I'll go under that. Or they're really hungry. No, they're hungry. Yeah.

They're so hot. Here's the crazier one. You know the feeling I had after watching Wild Wild Country when the Russian niches invited all those homeless people from all over the country to live on the compound and they couldn't be done. They started having to drug them because people were getting violent and they was not the right decision, but they decided to drug them.

Eventually, a couple of them choked on Sheila, my girlfriend, almost killed her. My conclusion after seeing that, I was like, okay, well, the history of why we have so many most people, one of the big reasons is they're all these exosas and 80s about mental institutions and how they were just like worse than self-taric confinement. They were just horrendously run and people were just chained to wall. I mean, it was so terrible.

The answer was just to shut them all down. They didn't think like, oh, let's make them. Yeah. So they shut them all down and they just dumped all the people on the streets.

Yeah. So then I was thinking, okay, well, it's not better for them to be in some leaky damp fucking isolation in a mental hospital. The streets are a better option for that. In LA, at least it's warm.

I'm not all day long. I'm seeing thousands of them a week. I don't see any violence. You're not seeing it in the news all the time.

It's not like a huge violence problem. And then I was like, well, even if you built a beautiful compound up in Oregon like the Russian you said, you send them there. That won't work. And I started thinking, is this the best solution?

You can make those places better, make the places livable and rehabilitative as opposed to a horrible place. I just don't want to have to be that. Well, I guess the big thing is, can they leave? If they can't leave, then they're incarcerated.

Yeah. If they can leave, would they just leave? I have a hunch that a big chunk of people would just leave and choose not to live in an institution. They'd rather just be walking around down to LA.

I don't know if they would rather. We don't know if we haven't had the option of having good care. Yeah. I also think a lot of cities have built the housing.

And I think there's like fiscally conservative people are opposed to that. Like, why would we give these people all these resources and not people who are like working, they're under the poverty level, but they're actually working. But that's a logical thought. But in those cities where they've built lots of housing for them, the toll that they take on the emergency room visits, on the police department, on the arrests, when you add up all the expenses that someone incurs living on the streets, it's much cheaper for us to actually just have housing for them.

So in that case, it's still more, or in some of these cities, it's more fiscally responsible. Oh, so those people are complaining about the problem? Those people are complaining. Like they don't like the homeless people.

Sure. So if you want a solution to that, that's the solution. It's gonna cost money. If you're fine with your city just having homeless people everywhere, then.

Well, that's what I'm actually, myself, I've been exploring that thought. Like, is it time for me to just be fine with this? It seems weird, right? It seems defeat is like a surrender.

I don't think it's a good place to get to know that you're okay with seeing people on the brink of death, basically. I'll help them. Well, only if you know they have options that options exist and they're not taking them. Then it's a pretty guilt-free assessment, I think.

No, that person wants to live under bridge. Yeah, I just don't think we have that. Right. Only after we have all those services would we know.

I think so. Okay. Well, that was a big tangent. So he was talking about his mom was a partition child.

The partition was, in August 1947, British India wanted to depend on the British and split into two new states that would rule themselves. The two new countries were Indian, Pakistan, East Pakistan, the Pacific and Bangladesh. India forced millions of people to leave their homes to move to the other state. This was the largest forced migration of people that had ever happened, which was because of war or famine.

His mom was all caught up in that. Yeah. I watched a little bit of his, a little episode of his scene and show where he went home with his mom. It was not been there since she was eight years old.

Oh, really? Yeah. And she like knew the house she lived in. That was really wild at what she remembered.

Yeah. Yeah. And she said, which came up on the podcast that she left on a cargo ship just packed in with people. Right.

Steve Austin. Stone Cold Steve Austin. Professional wrestler. Yeah.

He acted like I didn't know what that was. I acted that way. No, he did. Guilt, and Paul, and status.

You know how Colgan André was a giant. Stone Cold. Yeah. Dwayne, the Rock.

Johnson. Sure. One other one. Goldberg.

I don't even know why you didn't watch. That's a big one. But he's not named that everyone knows. There's a lot of Stone Cold Steve Austin jokes on Good Place.

Oh, that's true. Yeah. Yeah. So you're hearing that there.

Right? But that's why they can make that joke. Yeah. Because it's so ubiquitous that they can do that.

It's all good. Goldberg it all wouldn't. Not hit that. You know Stone Cold Steve Austin, saying is he coming to ring and you have two beers and he fucking pop him open and slam front every one.

Oh, you don't like wrestling. I just don't. That John Oliver piece was really funny. He's like, it's just good, okay?

It's just good entertainment. He kept showing clips of other things that were happening. Yeah. Yeah.

It was critical of Ed McMahon. That's not his name. It's been sick man. Ed McMahon was Johnny Carson's side side.

Well, that too. Yeah. I think that's what he's most known for. If you're your age.

But he was a sidekick on the Tonight Show for 15 minutes. Well, his legacy is that he brings checks to check to people's houses. He was on an episode of Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous when I was younger. Oh.

And he built his daughter a complete replica of their mansion, but miniature size in the backyard. The dollhouse? What? Yeah.

It's probably like a thousand square foot miniature version of their big house. It's like Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous. He's no sense. Why would you build a small house?

It's something he doesn't live there. She lives in the big house. It should be a different house. I mean, he wanted to give her the experience in pride of owning the house and being almost to the ceiling in the house.

Maybe being a giant. I do wonder when the people, because certainly they don't live in that house now. Some of the Bought House and there's a miniature version of the house in the backyard. You keep that?

I'd be creeped out. I probably would keep it though because I put a lot of effort in that. That's right. Maybe turned into some kind of an animal.

That girl goes to be living in there. Okay. A little white dress. Yeah.

Scary. Was that like cribs before cribs? Yes. Robin Leach was the host of Lifestyles of Rich and Famous.

I loved that show. Oh, my God. I love it. Seeing all those Lifestyles of Rich and Famous.

I know. There's nothing so titling about that. I know. It's just dreaming.

Like, oh my gosh. If I had a mansion, a miniature version of the mansion in the backyard in the child? Yeah. Yeah.

Okay. So you said something about the Aztecs and I couldn't find anything. About brain surgery? Yeah.

I used it like the hitting on the heads and then it was cured. I can't do it. I won't do it. It's fine.

I don't want you to. I know. I'm that way about a lot of words. I just won't do it.

You don't do it. Yeah, don't do it. Okay. Neanderthal brains.

You said were 1650 CCs in size and the modern homosabian brain is 1500. Yeah. From what I could find, Neanderthal's are for their large brain capacity which is 1600. The average brain capacity of homosabians is roughly 1300 to 27 years.

Yeah. So even bigger. Yeah. Yeah.

That's changed because when I learned it was 15 but that's fine. Yeah. Yeah. But it's a big gap.

Yeah. It is a big gap. The majority of Neanderthals lived in Gaul and Germany, Eastern France and Germany. Okay.

And it's now known that they didn't go extinct. They interbred with homosapiens. So they were absorbed into homosapiens. Germans, they're great at engineering.

They really are smart. You look at Einstein and a lot of our chemists and engineers. They got a reel. They got something going on over there.

And I think that 1600 brain CC has been absorbed in that population. That's why they're so good at engineering. Yeah. I know.

I know. I know. I know. I know.

I know. I know. I know. I know.

I know. They're bringing the exact same design as ours, which is bigger. They would be smarter. It's like, you know, Portuguese was the same proportionally.

If their cities were denser, then yes. But there could be this plenty of gray matter and all that. Yeah. I'm just saying that the brain is all being equal and one's bigger.

There are tons of people in Asia who are amazing at math. I would say the majority of the good math people are in Asia. They're good at practicing math. They're not great at inventing new theorems and driving the discipline forward.

So that's not the same thing then. I mean, create your creative portions are not necessarily the same thing as your math portions. If you're creating within math, yes, then that part of your brain is not only understanding the current math, but able to comprehend a math that no one else has even comprehended yet. Yeah.

That's true. Yeah. I just don't think that's true. Like I said, you could get a computer to do math better than any human, but you can't get a computer to invent a new math or the theory of relativity or.

I mean, some people would say otherwise in regards to AI that eventually an AI will be able to. In the future, I might be able to. I'm just saying currently I can't. Right.

Currently. Yeah. Okay. Ballsome of Peru.

Yeah. Also known in the market by many other names is grown in Central America, primarily in El Salvador, in South America, used in food and drink for flavoring and perfumes and toiletries for fragrance and medicine and pharmaceutical items for healing properties has a sweet scent. In some instances, it's listed on the ingredient label of a product by one of its various names, but it may not be required to be listed by its name by mandatory labeling conventions. It can cause allergic reactions with numerous large surveys identifying it as being in the top five allergens, most commonly causing patch test reactions may cause inflammation, redness, swelling, itching and blisters, including allergic contact dermatitis, inflammation that's the mouth or tongue.

Ooh. Yeah. Lots of stuff. Lots of stuff.

That's the thing that was triggering his wife. Sorry. Yeah. That's what they thought.

Yeah. Yeah. I'm so glad that he was up for that theory. I really think that's what's going on with everyone.

So we talked a little bit about Ayurvedic medicine and you, you say like, you don't know if they know the science behind it. Right. But I feel like they do. Like I think in the same way that the way that we are measuring things out based on chemical pills, basically, I think they're doing that with herbs.

Like they know, oh, this causes, when I see this, I think they're essentially doing the same thing. I agree with you. The result is the exact same, but their explanation of why this ingredient may trigger inflammation might actually be a metaphysical reason or a spiritual reason. Yeah.

As opposed to the chemistry, they'll never say, oh, this binds to this receptor and this hemoglobin then does this. Yeah. It doesn't matter because the results the same, but they might give it more of a metaphysical reasoning for why it's doing that thing. It's a Bret Weinstein thing that you can have a truth that is founded in an error.

But by doing it, you can have a result that's positive. Remember he was talking about that? Yeah. But I guess that's what I want to maybe not say.