Welcome to the Mariners Church Life Group Leader podcast. This week the conversation is designed to equip and resource youth to build a healthy life group community that studies God's word, practice the spiritual rhythms and changes the world together. Well, whole life group leaders and welcome to week three of Fighting for Joy, our study through the amazing book of Philippians. This has been a great, just dive into this great book already in the last couple of weeks.
We so have enjoyed just getting into the scriptures together, not only on the weekend, but also in and through your groups. And we're excited to jump into today's passage as we look at joy in life, joy in life and joy in death. A real substantial passage in the whole book of Philippians. And I've got a friend of mine who's helping me with that today.
Some of you all know who she is. And for some you may not, this might be your first introduction of the incredible amazing Danica Datsan. Hi everyone, so excited to be here. JT, thank you for having me on.
Yeah, so glad to have you jumped in with us today. Danica, for those that don't know, just tell us a little bit of your background, your role here at Mariners, what things you're excited about, what God is doing, and then we'll jump into it. Absolutely. So my background is actually in healthcare, but I have been the senior life group coach over 2030 is for about a year now and just love groups so much.
So much so that they hired me on as the women's coordinator. So now I get to do life groups for women and life groups for 2030 is that I just love it. God's been so faithful in taking the skills that I was trained in from an education standpoint and just transferring them into how to love God's people in just a different way. Yeah, you just bring so much joy and enthusiasm to our team, but you're somebody that you're in it.
You are so in it, as you mentioned, prior to becoming on staff and you're still operating in that role as a senior coach for groups. And just love the culture that you bring, your investment, your care of leaders and how you model that and set the pace for us on our team. And I know you're part of a part of groups too. And just give us a bit of insight, like even the groups that you're in and you're leading right now, what are you learning?
What are you seeing just on the ground and the everyday life of your life group? Yeah, definitely. So I used to lead a coed life group for four years and that was such a great dynamic because we got to hear the male perspective on different takes in the Bible. But now I lead in all women's group, we're in our 20s and 30s and we're all in different seasons of life right now.
But what is really holding us together is a hunger for the Lord's word and really just wanting to grow deeper and community for another and just diving deeper into specific books of the Bible so the book of Philippians and the study came at the perfect time for what our group is trying to do. Yeah, that's it. All day long. I mean, there are so many different things but look yeah and give our time at 22 in our groups but it's just proven time and time again that when we put ourselves on the authority of scripture and we have the conversation around what we see and how it's reading us.
Like I just does great, great things. It turns out that is we're just alive and active and we see that in our groups. It is, it is. And you know, we try to do the serve experience and the prayer experience.
We try to do everything but really at the end of the day, we're like we just need to get into the word and everything else. The Lord will lay our thoughts. Yeah, flows out of that, right? Yeah.
All of our life is living a response to God's word, right? And so how we serve others, how we live out our stories in conjunction with his greater story and in through our lives. That's where that's really matters. So, amazing.
Well, you ready to jump in? I am. All right. Let's do that.
We've got our lead in question. It says what is something you were looking forward to, something that's happening in the next weeks or months? How does this expectation inform your life right now? How you're preparing for anything?
Jump into your mind? Yes. Actually, my mom and I have the opportunity to go to Greece this summer. Oh, come on.
Let's go. We are really excited to spend time together. My family lives out of state. So we're excited to spend one on one time together but then explore something, a culture that's totally different than what we're used to.
So, my expectation that will be a time of learning that time of consideration. Yeah, that's right. So, I'm really excited. That's what I hear.
Yeah. That's incredible. That's so great. And I think that the question is trying to draw out is that we have things that we look forward to in the future and those fill us with hope and expectation.
But they do also inform how we live and operate now. So, as you mentioned, you're working hard getting things done. You might be planning ahead for where you're going to go. Things you need to buy impacts.
Like when we look ahead, it impacts how we live now. I think that's what the question is trying to draw out for us. And similar to we've got some trips, plans and things of summer, and so looking ahead to all the different places that we're going and trying to plan that out. It should impact how we live now, how we relate to one another now and how we plan now.
So, there's some more in the leader notes to help you draw out the purpose behind the leading question. No, no, sometimes when you ask the leading question, it doesn't always feel like a leading question. Sometimes people lean back. And they're like, I got to answer this.
I don't understand it. But that's one of the reasons we have a leader notes, right? So, that you can look to where the question is trying to lead people towards because a leading question is intentionally trying to get you thinking creatively about how to engage the rest of the question. So, you know where the question is going is to look at the leader notes, prepare for that.
And if it seems like people aren't on track with it, then you can lead them towards that, right? That's one of the things that leadership is helping to lead people towards where it's going in an authentic way. So, that's great. All right, we're going to jump into the passage.
You know what? I'm going to read just on Philippians 1, 20 through 26, and then we'll ask a couple questions and go from there. It says, my eager expectation and hope is that I will not be ashamed about anything, but that now, as always, with all courage, Christ will be highly honored in my body whether by life or by death. For me, to live is Christ and to die is gain.
That's really one of the critical verses of the whole of Philippians here, right? And then verse 22, now if I live on in the flesh, this means fruitful work for me. And I don't know which one I should choose. I am torn between the two.
I long to depart and be with Christ, which is far better. It makes it clear. But to remain in the flesh is more necessary for your sake. Since I am persuaded of this, I know that I will remain and continue with all of you for your progress and joy in the faith.
So that because of my coming to you again, you're boasting in Christ, Jesus may be a may abound. Amazing set of verses here. And there's about one, two, three, four set of questions related to these verses. Really, you get some of the questions and maybe one thing here.
What do you learn about Paul's view of life and death from the passage? That would probably be the most succinct way. You could certainly go line by line and ask the questions and get people to engage the passage that way. But you may want to think about, man, how can I combine these?
What are these questions trying to pull out centrally? I think that's the thing. What do you learn about Paul's view of life and death? What would you say, Danica, how would you interact with these six verses?
Well, for me personally, I would love to get to the point of Paul's faith and would want to so easily go to heaven and be with my Lord and Savior. But then recognize that there's so much work that will be done. I think sometimes we get really caught up in the day to day or, you know, life here on Earth is so hard. But I love Paul's perspective because he constantly points back to Jesus, whether that's here, him still on Earth, or who actually physically gets to be with Jesus and heaven.
So I think one thing that as our life groups are having these kinds of discussions is make sure that they are understanding kind of the question from the scripture and where they're coming from. And then let them share where we put our current hopes and expectations and see if that aligns with Paul in his heart and though the Bible calls us. Yeah, that's it. I mean, there's so much in here to pull out.
I mean, you learn so much about Paul and his perspective and he's not like, it's not like fatalism where, well, you know, he's in Rome, he's in prison. Many church historians think that actually this is after this led to his execution. We don't know that for a certain tea, but this isn't as far as time in prison, but he's probably wondering if this is his last time. He might be he's at the center of his heartbeat of it, but he's still not like a flippant like fatalism where well, you know, I try my best and I'm just ready to go and be Jesus and I guess that will have to do.
It's like, no, he's got a grand vision. Like he understands that his life is completely hidden in Christ. That Christ is a goal. He's the prize.
He's got this grand hope and expectation of the restoration of all things and when he'll be in Christ's presence forever. But it's also not like an escape is not like, okay, that's where the story is going. So there's no implications for how I live now. It's like, no, like all the more, like I want to outwork this with you.
I want to be with you. It's necessary for me to be with you to continue to remain in the progress of the faith. It's kind of like he knows where the story is going, but he's not just trying to hit the escape button to let me just go there. It's like because I know where the story is going, all the more, I want to remain faithful and door have perseverance.
Like he's got a right size view of like suffering and a right size view of eternity, which informs how he relates to others. Now, so you learn so much so much about Paul that we can be encouraged by here. I think of Martin Luther, he once said, I wrote it down because I was struck by this when he said, I would not give one moment of heaven for all the joys and riches of the world, even if it lasted for thousands and thousands of years. I thought about that great quote that he can't wait for him to live this Christ to die his game, that there's an understanding of that.
I wouldn't trade anything in this world for that, but it doesn't impede or stop the outworking of the gospel of what he's doing now, which is a beautiful thing. Anything else that you see that you're struck at and that set of verses? I think in some ways this is very counter-cultural to the American dream, right? You work so hard and then you retire and then you have those last harmony years the Lord blesses you with to enjoy life.
I think Paul really paints a picture of what our life to the very end is supposed to look like. I think that's really encouraging. That's right. He is the definition of running the race well.
That's right. I'll quickly read 27 through 30. It says, just one thing, as citizens of heaven, and there again, there's that great reminder of, yeah, we might dwell here, earthly, we have our place, earthly, relationally, socially, but ultimately our home is in heaven. That's where identity and our priority comes from.
Because of that, live a life worthy of the gospel of Christ, then whether I come and see you or am absent, I will hear about you that you are standing firm in one spirit and one accord, continuing to be the same for the faith of the gospel, not being frightened in any way by your opponents. Unbelievable for those that were being persecuted and martyred. This was happening. This is a sign of destruction for them, but of your salvation.
And this is from God for it has been granted to you on Christ's behalf, not only to believe in him, but also to suffer for him since you are engaged in the same struggle that you saw I had and now here that I have. So a couple of questions here. What single expectation do Paul have for the Philippian church? What would it look like for the church to live according to this expectation?
And then what motive did Paul want the Philippians to have in order to live the way that he describes? What do we see in those three verses here? Well, I think in verse 27, it says, I said it's in heaven, which I would say was Paul's main motive. He wants them to take that further step of faith in the common citizens of heaven.
And then we want to live our lives worthy of the gospel of Christ. And I think once your motivation changes, your harp-haustre changes, it would be a one-e. Right. And how the Philippians were living their lives.
That's right. Absolutely. So he's preaching to himself, which I love that we need that, like to preach the gospel to ourselves, but he's also preaching and proclaiming it to others that he's encouraging himself. And as he's encouraging himself, he's encouraging others that he's being reminded of what's most true.
And he wants other people to be reminded of that as well. And that was his motive. That was his motive for others to have a grand vision of Jesus or the gospel to advance. And he's not aloof to their suffering.
He's suffering himself. So, you know, there's nothing worse that when a friend gives you advice from something they haven't experienced. And that can be all well, meaning, and there can be some goodness in that. But it's quite different when somebody gives you not just advice, but a shared life experience of something that they've gone through.
But there's a different perspective. I think that's what Paul is offering here too, which is a beautiful thing. All right. Then we get to the look out section.
And we kind of hit on this a little bit. You talked through it a bit. Remember, look down. How do we see this at work in the world around us?
Where do we see people putting their hope and expectation? Does it live up to that hope and expectation? Where have you seen it? Anything come to mind for you?
I think one of the main themes I thought I was we are very externally motivated. Our hope is not in Christ. We're going to look for things that are right in front of us. So whether that be success, money, whatever the American dream will look like to you, things that can easily be taken away at a moment's notice.
Right. Yeah. And then you could then take the flip of that question and kind of be the turn to the look in. Okay.
What is that for you? Where are the things that you feel the draw to put your hope and expectation in? Where have you seen them live up? Where have you seen them not live up?
What are the things that prevent you from putting your substantial hope into Jesus? I mean, Eric, I love this. You drew this out through the sermon time and time again, and it's in the look in question too. If you were to answer the question for me to live is, how would you answer that with all sincerity in all honesty?
Where do you put your hope and expectation? And how would you answer that? For me to live is. What do you think, Danica, how would you respond to that?
Or how about you might leave that in the groups that you're in? I think from a leader perspective and just from myself who has probably loved Jesus to the best of her ability for so long, I said for me to live is to love Jesus and others as well. Yeah. My heart, my heart posture struggles is I like to do things to perfection.
Yeah. And I think the Lord is teaching me, you can love him and you can love his people, but it doesn't always have to be to what I think is perfection. And so he's constantly kind of bringing me back to a very humble stance and sometimes the best thing, at least for our life, we have leaders to keep in mind is we don't always have to have the right answers to all of our big theological questions that might come out of groups, but just to really meet people where they're at. And I think sometimes when we meet people where that's the best way we can be loving not only Jesus but his people.
Right. That's good. And Eric talked about this as a set of the message. He goes through, which really are just the four or five different philosophical approaches of how we answer this question, whether it's pleasure, pleasure seeking, whether it's safety and security, establishing a good name for yourself.
You might be well served actually if you during the sermon, if you're listening to this before, think about those things that he punches out. He gives one, two, three, four of those for me to live is to be a good person, for me to live is to grow, for me to live is to serve others, for me to live is to enjoy life. You might want to think about unpacking those on which ones resonate mostly with you and leave through that, through that Eric puts in front of us, but there's so many different things. I want to have that answer too for me to live is to join in the sufferings of Christ that to make him know.
I'd love that to be my LinkedIn profile. It would be for Paul, but I feel it. I think we all feel it. I pro to wonder.
I feel that for me to live is safety and security, for me to live a certainty, for me to live is to control the outcome of not only my life and my kids' lives. I feel all of that. I know that when I'm not my best self, it's because I'm short-sighted and I want to see what I can control today and I lose the sight of his sovereignty, his goodness, the hope for eternity. And so lead through that conversation well with your group, through vulnerability, through honesty.
They're only going to go as far as you're going to go and model that with them. And then spend some time praying and interacting. I get life-free players to get it, say from my group, like, you've unpacked some of these things before in your group, but you can never get to the end of that discussion nor could you never get to the end of praying for one another and believe in what God wants to heal that, to take that insecurity that will be away from you. So lean into the conversation well this week and remember, so we still love what God's doing with your groups.
Do you think anything else so great to have you? Thank you for having me. Life-free players, I am just so thankful for you and just know that the discipleship team were praying for you, were praying for your group, were praying, you know, that was just not the thing we say. We really are taking the time to pray for each and every leader and person in their group, and we're just so thankful for you.
And you don't always have to feel like you're doing it the right way or, you know, have all the answers, but just taking that step of faith and showing up with your group every week is amazing. Awesome. Great. You guys.
Well, thank you for your time. Life-free players, thanks for joining us and we'll see you next week.